--- Day changed Sun May 24 2009
00:00 < fenn> like, shouldnt there be a zillion bioinformatics grad students just foaming at the mouth for a project like this?
00:00 < kanzure> something is wrong with the internet, maybe
00:00 < kanzure> I have been wondering why freenode is so small
00:00 < kanzure> only 200 to 500 people in #math is depressing, for instance
00:01 < fenn> freenode is ~50,000 people?
00:01 < fenn> yes
00:01 < kanzure> it's more by luck than by raw skillage that I was able to find somebody like drtread for instance
00:02 < kanzure> that was due to just searching over livejournal recursively for material scientists
00:02 < fenn> part of it is that freenode is sort of hidden in the bowels of the net
00:02 < kanzure> but surely there should be more people out there somewhere
00:02 < fenn> i mean how would someone into math find #math
00:02 < kanzure> but I'm on most of the mailing lists that matter, most of the forums that matter, and there's just .. not many people.
00:02 < kanzure> consider the active percents of each of the forums that I am subscribed to.
00:02 < kanzure> each board has maybe 10% activity of their memberbase
00:03 < kanzure> and even then that doesn't tell us where the hell all of these grad students or undergrads are going off too
00:03 < fenn> like i said, we're up against the whole fucking capitalist empire
00:03 < kanzure> *off to
00:03 < kanzure> deep dark belly of The Man might be their destination
00:03 < kanzure> but there's a whole generation of people that grew up with popular IM clients
00:03 < fenn> when people have to spend 95% of their time and energy on Bullshit they dont have much left for progressive activities
00:03 < kanzure> for instance, I wasn't really expecting campbell to be IM-friendly, but it turns out that the generation that grew up with IM is just about old enough to start influencing me like that
00:04 < fenn> what do you mean 'influencing me like that'?
00:04 < kanzure> but it's not really easy for me to track down new IM contacts
00:04 < kanzure> er, I mean, appearing in the corporate/social institutions and so on
00:04 < kanzure> i.e., places where "old folks" are :p
00:04 < fenn> oh i see
00:04 < fenn> significant opportunity for self advancement by way of IM
00:04 < kanzure> I started on the net when the net wasn't really all that cool .. so nobody did IM stuff, and you'd never expect a guy in a suit to know about it
00:05 < kanzure> but now all of the IM kiddies have long been graduated from college
00:05 < fenn> well. campbell also knows lisp and emacs
00:05 < kanzure> that's what *he* says
00:05 < kanzure> that's still under investigation heh
00:05 < fenn> heh
00:05 < fenn> fair enough
00:06 < fenn> so should we just put up flyers around the bio/cs department or something?
00:06 < kanzure> hm.
00:06 < fenn> "leet hackers needed for bio protocol standardization project"
00:07 < kanzure> might as well, as cheesey as that is.
00:07 < fenn> send your resume to...
00:07 < kanzure> the one with the most terrible resume wins, or something
00:08 < fenn> applicants must be self-starters, clueful individualists, etc
00:08 < kanzure> I don't think that works.
00:08 < kanzure> although 
00:08 < fenn> that == posting flyers?
00:08 < kanzure> yeah.
00:08 < fenn> it's a low amplification medium sure
00:08 < kanzure> but one way to get this done might be to use the lab professor telephone game system
00:08 < kanzure> apparently professors, when doing projects, randomly make requests to other professors, and things "get done"
00:09 < fenn> O RLY
00:09 < fenn> somehow i doubt things really ever 'get done' in academia
00:09 < kanzure> somehow sata is able to work his telephone
00:09 < fenn> perhaps they write a paper about it or something
00:09 < kanzure> it's a magical machine that seems to make anything happen
00:09 < kanzure> "ok, we now have a graduate who knows how to do PDMS castings. he will be here at lunch."
00:09 < fenn> tool of the devil is what it is
00:10 < ybit> "Not all iGEM teams will need wetlab space, however. Teams competing in the new software tools track, which is focused on developing computational tools that enable the engineering of biology with standard biological parts, will not necessarily need a wetlab."
00:10 < ybit> but it doesn't seem igem wants to cooperate with diybio
00:10 < fenn> that sounds like a recipe for disaster
00:10 < fenn> bio students + computers
00:11 < kanzure> fenn: way back in the day, I used to be a meanie in a kind of .. hurd of meanies on the internet.
00:11 < kanzure> we somehow were filtering newbies for teh l33tz0rz
00:11 < kanzure> and the newbies that were stupid enough to stick around,
00:11 < kanzure> we'd hate them into oblivion until they became competent or something
00:11 < kanzure> it was weird
00:11 < kanzure> I wonder how that worked..
00:15 < kanzure> anyway, they would then be transformed and almost "uplifted"- in a really weird way- into somewhat productive individuals
00:15 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@pool-173-57-41-223.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
00:15 < kanzure> fenn: this was back in the day when I still bothered to teach people about programming over IM :p
00:15 < bkero> ybit: Things are going fine.  Quite a difficult time at school
00:16 < kanzure> fenn: oh. instead of a working group, how about just a lab? "the kanzure virtual laboratory for awesomeness".
00:16 < kanzure> except without that name
00:16 < fenn> gasp. bkero admits weakness!
00:17 < kanzure> it's under 9000 :(
00:18 < kanzure> I like the idea of a lab "led" by me. 
00:18 < fenn> kanzure: so, yet another more or less undirected social group? kinda like this channel?
00:18 < kanzure> I thought you were all for working groups?
00:18 < kanzure> isn't this a working group?
00:18 < fenn> sure it's a boost to your ego but it won't result in getting anything done any more than what we already have
00:18 < bkero> fenn: Ssh.  I'm slightly human.  My mother was human, myself, a god.
00:18 < fenn> it's not a working group unless there's a specific goal with end conditions
00:19 < kanzure> oh.
00:19 < fenn> you see what i'm saying?
00:20 < fenn> openmanufacturing is way too vague and undirected; same for luf-team and diybio and hplusroadmap
00:20 < kanzure> no. it seems goals would have to be synchronized, er, magically?
00:20 < fenn> for a bio protocol standardization working group one of your goals could be a magic xml format that does x y and z
00:21 < kanzure> one of the problems with particular projects is that you kind of dig yourself into a hole
00:21 < kanzure> for instance, I'm glad we haven't dug ourselves into too much of a hole with the skdb data structures just yet
00:21 < kanzure> but you can't find people that want to do that ..
00:21 < kanzure> so what does it matter?
00:21 < fenn> how do you know?
00:21 < kanzure> because we're it
00:21 < fenn> it's only been like 6 months
00:22 < kanzure> how long do I need to be ranting about it before people start raising their hands
00:22 < fenn> well. throwing money at it probably couldnt hurt (not that you have that kind of money)
00:22 < kanzure> I have .. some.
00:22 < fenn> you dont have enough
00:23 < fenn> if you only have enough money to hire one programmer you run the risk of another xp_prg disaster
00:24 < kanzure> but then you have the same damn problems finding programmers
00:24 < kanzure> "send in your resumes" <- you only get people with resumes..
00:24 < fenn> yes and it takes more than just money
00:24 < fenn> but!
00:24 < kanzure> I like the other method
00:24 < kanzure> the way that I found you..
00:24 < fenn> you could hire known clueful people like mlp
00:24 < kanzure> hm.
00:25 < fenn> why isnt she working on it already?
00:25 < kanzure> no clue
00:25 < kanzure> she claims she understands, and I believe her,
00:25 < kanzure> but for some reason it's not happening?
00:25 < fenn> life
00:25 < fenn> too many projects probably
00:25 < kanzure> gee
00:26  * fenn mutters something about clones
00:26 < kanzure> but project management stuff is kinda meta and should be kinda an ideal way to spend time/energy/effort/flow/bondgraphs-oh-crap-cadr-car-cdr-lisplisplisp
00:26 < fenn> and time machines, we'll need a few of those
00:26 < kanzure> too bad my brother is an idiot
00:26 < fenn> you have a brother?
00:26 < kanzure> yes
00:27 < kanzure> andrew, 17
00:27 < kanzure> carissa, 13
00:28 < fenn> ok any other known clueful bio+programming savvy people?
00:28 < kanzure> what do you mean by 'known'
00:29 < kanzure> for instance, dan bolser shows up in here from time to time
00:29 < kanzure> but I haven't seen any actual evidence of stuff coming from him
00:29 < fenn> when you look at stuff they write and it coincides with your own views of how things ought to work
00:29 < kanzure> eh, I guess
00:29 < fenn> i'll admit it's relative/subjective, not absolute
00:29 < fenn> but that's all i have to go on
00:29 < kanzure> but I mean, mlp I've actually seen spouting out *nix chick stuff
00:30 < kanzure> but bolser hasn't.
00:30 < kanzure> bkero hasn't either for the most part :p
00:30 < fenn> maybe he's just not as geeky
00:30 < fenn> heh that's all bkero talks about
00:30 < kanzure> bkero only talks of bkero
00:30 < fenn> clusters and uptime
00:30 < fenn> yeah and how much money he's wasting living it up etc
00:31 < fenn> anyway i dont mean to judge
00:31 < fenn> but you see there are procedures for determining whether someone is clueful or not
00:31 < kanzure> sure, 
00:31 < fenn> now all you have to do is find someone enthusiastic about a field, then determine whether they are clueful
00:31 < bkero> kanzure: geeky chix for me?
00:31 < fenn> then you just throw money at them to do 'the right thing'
00:32 < kanzure> heh
00:32 < fenn> prequisite being having tons of money of course
00:32 < fenn> i'm sure there's some way to make this work with grant proposals etc
00:32 < fenn> usually the proposals are written by the person who will be doing the work or closely involved (ie the student works in their lab or whatever)
00:33 < fenn> but that's so 20th century it hurts
00:33 < fenn> "this is what needs to be done" -> "this is how much money it will take to get it done" -> "give this money to this person"
00:33 < kanzure> there needs to be a legion of people who don't suck
00:33 < kanzure> something immune to mission creep
00:33 < fenn> mission creep is a fact of life
00:34 < fenn> it's combated by defining goals
00:34 < fenn> and forming organizations towards those goals
00:34 < kanzure> the only way that I can think of attracting the right talent would be the google method
00:34 < fenn> for example GRG doesnt do work on exoskeletons and brain implants (as far as i know)
00:34 < kanzure> of doing ridiculously awesome things that the right sorts of people can't help but be attracted to
00:35 < kanzure> does GRG actually do anything other than rant about how nobody has documentation on age?
00:35 < fenn> you could use some of your contacts or whatever like the WTA thing to put out a call for volunteers for some specific thing
00:35 < genehacker> WHOA LOOK ACTION
00:35 < fenn> but that carries the risk of attracting people who suck and will use up your time
00:35 < genehacker> I has a sublet
00:36 < kanzure> er, I've sort of done that before
00:36 < kanzure> and I've determined that they are all bullshitters
00:36 < fenn> genehacker: in austin?
00:36 < genehacker> no was
00:36 < genehacker> drove over 500 miles today
00:36 < fenn> i thought you were in plano
00:36 < genehacker> what is current topic
00:37 < genehacker> mission creep
00:37 < fenn> how to get people focused on actually doing shit that matters
00:37 < fenn> like writing a standard for bio xml protocol format
00:37 < genehacker> cool prizes
00:37 < kanzure> how to find more of me or fenn
00:37 < genehacker> of course
00:37 < fenn> you and me dont seem to be accomplishing a whole lot either, i might add
00:37 < kanzure> we're only two ..
00:37 < genehacker> I think there might be another one on the campus
00:37 < kanzure> and we pick particularly weird projects
00:37 < fenn> sure i have a screw.yaml and some neat ideas
00:38 < genehacker> the person who posted the brain implant idea to the synth bio club that never took off
00:38 < fenn> but out of the list of ideas i could have been working on, i've not finished/reached workable state for very many
00:38 < kanzure> that was me..
00:38 < genehacker> perhaps cryptic posters that only those who know would recognize
00:38 < kanzure> fenn: it's also more of an issue of injecting novelty into the mix
00:38 < genehacker> no not you
00:38 < fenn> novelty?
00:38 < genehacker> someone else
00:38 < kanzure> fenn: basically there are ideas that we're probably both thinking, but we don't mention, but a third party would somehow elaborate on or something
00:38 < genehacker> perhaps a set of clues
00:39 < genehacker> ARG style
00:39 < kanzure> and therefore make things more productive or something
00:39 < fenn> novelty leads to discussion, not drudge work
00:39 < kanzure> even if they're just as lazy
00:39 < kanzure> maybe someone else knows more tricks than either of us
00:39 < kanzure> some of the tricks I've dug up are kinda useful, but it would have been more useful to have them already in the first place
00:39 < fenn> right now we need drudge work, in order to finance high falutin stuff
00:39 < kanzure> rather than having to create the shit from scratch or digging up stupid databases
00:40 < fenn> again, we're up against the empire
00:40 < genehacker> how about putting up austin fablab posters
00:40 < fenn> les is against that
00:40 < kanzure> what would that do
00:40 < fenn> and it wouldnt do anything
00:40 < genehacker> HOW ABOUT A BLIMP
00:40 < kanzure> ..
00:40 < kanzure> sigh
00:40 < fenn> HOW ABOUT RADIOACTIVE LIZARD EXPLOSIVES
00:41 < kanzure> OR SOVIET SUPER GORILLAS FOR HOME INVASION ADVERTISEMENT CAMPAIGNS
00:41 < genehacker> that's a great idea
00:41 < genehacker> I think I found some peoples
00:41 < fenn> in plano?
00:41  * fenn laughs
00:41 < genehacker> there's a certain group of people that show up to the talks
00:41 < genehacker> the science talks
00:42 < kanzure> I haven't noticed any regularities in the audiences ..
00:42 < kanzure> although faces aren't quite my specialty
00:42 < genehacker> I have only gone to acouple of talks so n= low
00:42 < fenn> what science talks?
00:43 < genehacker> so facebook groups
00:43 < kanzure> fenn: remember austinbrains.org ?
00:43 < genehacker> the one about ironman and science
00:43 < kanzure> I was posting up a list of all "science talks" at the uni
00:43 < fenn> and are these people just clueful or also willing to contribute to something useful?
00:43 < kanzure> which I largely get via email.
00:44 < fenn> right, i was asking for more details besides 'some people at some talk'
00:44 < fenn> blah dee blah
00:44 < fenn> DETAILS
00:44 < genehacker> so how can we can find more of us?
00:44 < fenn> where's my fem-bot
00:44 < kanzure> more of what
00:44 < kanzure> your fenn-bot ?
00:45 < fenn> it's 2009 for fuck's sake
00:45 < kanzure> you've been saying that since 1982, stfu
00:45 < genehacker> they sell those in japan
00:45 < genehacker> ugh
00:45 < fenn> hell we're supposed to be having the world's fair on pluto
00:45 < fenn> am i just in the wrong country? i thought japan was just as useless as, say, san-fransisco
00:46 < fenn> oh dear, there goes my brain again
00:46 < genehacker> should we form an SOS brigade style group
00:46 < fenn> haven't we already?
00:46 < genehacker> hehehehehe
00:47 < kanzure> something is wrong with the internet though
00:47 < fenn> too bad kanzure isn't a hot japanese chick
00:47 < kanzure> I found genehacker because he was standing in front of me in a line
00:47 < genehacker> hahahha
00:47 < fenn> i am psychich though, for what it's worth
00:47 < fenn> even if i'm suffering from some sort of mental illness
00:47 < kanzure> and fenn I found because of obsessive compulsive googling
00:48 < genehacker> kanzure we've encountered each other inadvertantly in reprap forums
00:48 < kanzure> superkuh I found because of his obsessive compulsive IRCing, although he's dead.
00:48 < kanzure> genehacker: what?
00:48 < kanzure> really?
00:48 < kanzure> before UT?
00:48 < genehacker> yeah
00:48 < kanzure> show me
00:48 < fenn> it's not such a stretch
00:48 < genehacker> bacterial bootstrapping
00:48 < kanzure> positive evidence that having 200+ forum subscriptions is of some use
00:49 < genehacker> you started the austin self-repper group
00:49 < kanzure> wtf
00:49 < kanzure> really?
00:49 < genehacker> yeah
00:49 < kanzure> oh.
00:49 < kanzure> how's that going
00:49 < genehacker> I think you also posted something about the polonator but that disappeared
00:50 < fenn> i should check out ACTlab
00:50 < kanzure> no you shouldn't
00:50 < genehacker> http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?23,9826
00:50 < fenn> but.. but
00:50 < kanzure> even the resident aspie is a pushover
00:50 < genehacker> it is depressing
00:50 < fenn> pushovers can be useful
00:50 < genehacker> guess so
00:50 < kanzure> meh, maybe I just looked like a moron to him
00:50 < fenn> 'yaml dammit, YAML!!!'
00:51 < fenn> maybe i'm totally wrong about everything, but i feel like there's at least a chance i might be right about some things
00:51 < fenn> and that's better than most people
00:51 < genehacker> so how can we find nerds?
00:51 < genehacker> if we can't use posters
00:51 < kanzure> nerds?
00:51 < genehacker> it is what we are
00:52  * kanzure needs to upgrade the thickness of his eyeware
00:52 < genehacker> heh
00:52 < fenn> "Jelly is an every-so-often casual coworking session. Anyone is welcome to come, bring your laptop, art supplies, or whatever, and work alongside other creative, fun people."
00:52 < genehacker> ballistic protection grade glasses?
00:52 < kanzure> fenn: I haven't gone yet
00:52 < kanzure> but it seems like something that diybio people would be going to
00:52 < kanzure> "social media" crap. 
00:52 < kanzure> but maybe I'm wrong
00:53 < genehacker> anyway I met someone who was interested in singularity type stuff
00:53 < kanzure> there are many of that type
00:53 < kanzure> but most of them are in a cult called The Singularitarians
00:53 < genehacker> but it was only because they read a kurzweil book over the summer
00:53 < kanzure> right.
00:53 < fenn> honestly i dont care about peoples religious beliefs if they share the same goals
00:53 < fenn> and are competent
00:53 < genehacker> wasn't really the type of person we're looking for
00:53 < fenn> the problem is finding competent people and getting them to do Stuff
00:53 < genehacker> double e though
00:53 < kanzure> ah, well, they tend to be obsessed with some particulate aspectsz of it all to an extent that they don't do anything .. useful
00:54 < genehacker> yeah
00:54 < kanzure> for instance, go check the SL4 archives
00:54 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@98.234.52.78] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
00:54 < genehacker> ????
00:54 < kanzure> it's all talk about computational theory instead of working off of it
00:54 < genehacker> ok
00:54 < genehacker> so we still haven't solved the problem
00:54 < kanzure> fenn: I figure that if you reach a critical mass of competent people doing nothing, you can do "something" based off of all of the little "nothings" that they are doing
00:54 < fenn> sure, it's just as bad as nanotech or other teenage fantasies
00:55 < fenn> something based on nothing?
00:55 < kanzure> heh
00:55 < fenn> that sounds downright divine
00:55 < genehacker> still haven't solved problem
00:55 < genehacker> facebook group
00:55 < genehacker> pamphlets
00:55 < kanzure> why
00:55 < genehacker> we need MOAR
00:55 < kanzure> why
00:55 < kanzure> more what
00:55 < fenn> i dont think a webpage is going to do anything
00:55 < kanzure> mine hasn't :/
00:56 < genehacker> people
00:56 < fenn> it's the traditional internet group problem
00:56 < fenn> maybe eric hunting knows the answer
00:57 < kanzure> hah
00:57 < kanzure> no, he's been fighting the same battle forever
00:57 < genehacker> ok I'm putting up posters 
00:57 < kanzure> posters for what
00:57 < fenn> exactly, that's why i thought he might have come to some conclusions about what not to do :P
00:57 < genehacker> screw you guys
00:57 < kanzure> what?
00:57 < kanzure> I just asked a legit question
00:57 < fenn> it is a legit question
00:58 < genehacker> I want to find interesting people
00:58 < kanzure> le git heh
00:58 < fenn> onh ho oui oui
00:58 < fenn> genehacker: what will you do with these interesting people?
00:58 < kanzure> eat their brains
00:58 < genehacker> have fun
00:59 < genehacker> of course
00:59 < fenn> gah
00:59 < kanzure> ..
00:59 < fenn> please explain
00:59 < genehacker> ok ok take over the world!
00:59 < fenn> no seriously, i seem to be missing this part of life which normal people call 'fun'
00:59 < fenn> i think it's important somehow
00:59 < genehacker> screw those normal people
01:00 < genehacker> they don't know what fun is
01:00 < fenn> you just said you wanted to do it
01:00 < katsmeow-afk> here here!
01:00 < fenn> i dont know what fun is
01:00 < fenn> so any suggestions would be helpful
01:00 < ybit> bkero: working on a project at school? 
01:00 < katsmeow-afk> fun is what causes you to feel satisfied in some way
01:01 < kanzure> ..
01:01 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has quit [Connection timed out]
01:01 < fenn> (as a meta note, please dont turn this into a philosophical discussion)
01:01 < kanzure> maybe we should be more selective, fenn
01:01 < genehacker> fun is watching a solar balloon with a unique bouyancy control system take off and come back down on radio command
01:02 < kanzure> in particular it would be more interesting to look for people that already know other people
01:02 < fenn> ok so one example of fun is 'goal accomplished'
01:02 < genehacker> yeah
01:02 < kanzure> so, if they don't know anybody, they'd stick around anyway, but in particular, looking for clusters is the better idea
01:02 < fenn> small world network nodes
01:03 < kanzure> yes
01:03 < genehacker> another example is seeing [REDACTED] grams of [REDACTED]  fulminate
01:03 < fenn> genehacker: could you generalize that statement to a higher level of abstraction please?
01:04 < genehacker> diy rocketry
01:04 < fenn> hmm
01:04 < fenn> i'm not convinced
01:04 < fenn> i mean, last time i blew up a bunch of stuff it wasnt fun at all
01:05 < fenn> just sort of what i expected to happen, that's all
01:05 < genehacker> proving that it is possible to sit on a couch on a lake for the lulz
01:05 < fenn> ok, ridiculous task team effort
01:06 < fenn> should i be writing this down?
01:06 < genehacker> it can be done
01:06 < kanzure> what can be done?
01:06 < genehacker> float a couch in a lake
01:07 < fenn> holy crap i already have an entire category for 'fun' on the milesaway wiki
01:07 < genehacker> ???
01:07 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/milesaway/#fun
01:07 < kanzure> why does it matter that you can float a coach on a lake
01:07 < kanzure> I'm totally lost
01:07 < kanzure> we were just talking about finding clusters of brains 
01:07 < kanzure> and now we're talking about floating couches for some reason
01:07 < kanzure> maybe I'm not smart enough to understand
01:07 < fenn> kanzure: the point is to use novelty to lure interesting people into your organization
01:08 < kanzure> fenn: I already suggested novelty earlier tonight
01:08 < fenn> can we substitute 'novelty' for 'fun' in all cases?
01:08 < kanzure> but you questioned it 
01:08 < katsmeow-afk> no
01:08 < kanzure> and it went downhill 
01:09 < fenn> maybe i had it wrong. i was thinking in the context of mailing lists
01:09 < fenn> which don't really fit the definition of 'fun'
01:10 < kanzure> so way back when,
01:10 < genehacker> if mailing lists can find people
01:10 < kanzure> I was thinking of using free oil and free food (especially chocolates) as a way to attract these peopple
01:10 < kanzure> genehacker: mailing lists can't find people
01:10 < kanzure> it seems to only work when people cc each other
01:10 < kanzure> otherwise nobody new shows up
01:10 < kanzure> unless somebody is searching teh internets
01:11 < fenn> and if they find a list by a google search typically they won't reply to a thread
01:11 < kanzure> mostly for technical reasons :)
01:11 < kanzure> unless you have the email laying around
01:11 < fenn> it's not impossible
01:11 < kanzure> and can grab the message IDs and MIME crap
01:11 < genehacker> perhaps we could form a website for stuff like this
01:11 < fenn> google groups makes it easy in fact
01:11 < kanzure> ..
01:11 < kanzure> genehacker: but I already have a website
01:11 < kanzure> and fenn does too
01:12 < fenn> i do?
01:12 < genehacker> like facebook
01:12 < kanzure> fennetic.net ?
01:12 < genehacker> but for finding people
01:12 < kanzure> genehacker: what's wrong with facebook 
01:12 < fenn> er. fennetic.net is a catch-all
01:12 < kanzure> oh
01:12 < kanzure> well maybe a linkedin but for non-monetary-people or something
01:12 < genehacker> studies show that people don't tend to find new people on facebook
01:12 < kanzure> but still .. there are already too many social networking websites
01:13 < fenn> studies show that facebook is bullshit
01:13 < fenn> and so is linkedin
01:13 < kanzure> and if you really want to, just go set up one of the pre-made packages
01:13 < genehacker> ok
01:13 < fenn> i think if we're going to try to find people, they should be local
01:13 < fenn> because we already know a lot of internet people
01:13 < fenn> and studies show that it's impossible to get internet people to do anything
01:13 < kanzure> we know the wrong internet people
01:14 < kanzure> how does debian work
01:14 < kanzure> I don't understand this anomaly
01:14 < fenn> magic
01:14 < kanzure> I see.
01:14 < fenn> something to do with druids and long beards
01:14 < genehacker> and orientation towards mecca?
01:14 < kanzure> well, if scruff can get you a job, maybe a beard can get you a phd? is that how this works
01:14 < ybit> what about the hardware side of skdb?
01:14 < kanzure> ybit: what about it
01:14 -!- TheWrongPeople [n=someone@75-120-31-249.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:14 < TheWrongPeople> we heard you
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01:14 < kanzure> hello TheWrongPeople.
01:14 < ybit> [00:02] <fenn> "leet hackers needed for bio protocol standardization project"
01:15 < kanzure> ybit: diybio is a small domain for skdb
01:15 < fenn> bio protocols is not exactly hardware
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01:15 < kanzure> it makes problem solving a bit easier
01:15 < fenn> oh look it's mister wrong person himself :)
01:15 < kanzure> for instance, thermocycler design has less physical domains to work in
01:15 < kanzure> rather than some complex machinery
01:15 < fenn> i'll refrain from saying hello in case he's actually at the computer
01:15 < kanzure> er .. think of it as a nice sandbox to play in
01:15 < katsmeow-afk> fenn is lagged?
01:15 < fenn> no
01:15 < fenn> nevermind
01:15 < kanzure> fenn is lagged indeed
01:16  * kanzure snickers
01:16 < katsmeow-afk> s/he isn't here
01:16  * fenn bonks kanzure on the head
01:16  * kanzure pokes fenn in the eyes
01:16 < kanzure> nyah nyah nyah
01:16 < fenn> 98.234.52.78
01:16 < katsmeow-afk> ?
01:16 < fenn> ^^
01:16  * fenn goes and gets something to drink
01:16 < genehacker> leet hackers for bio?
01:17 < genehacker> I think I know the person for the job
01:17 < kanzure> genehacker: fenn was wondering why bioinformatics grads aren't jumping on the XML protocol representation stuff
01:17 < kanzure> since there's a zillion of them ..
01:18 < genehacker> ok so how do we find people
01:18 < kanzure> by selecting for people that already know more people
01:18 < kanzure> i.e., clusters for a small world network effect
01:18 < genehacker> how about a virus?
01:19 < kanzure> ?
01:19 < genehacker> a replicating pamphlet
01:19 < genehacker> a paper virus
01:19 < kanzure> why a pamphlet
01:19 < fenn> 'this is bunny. photocopy him to take over the world'
01:19 < genehacker> why not
01:19 < genehacker> exactly
01:19 < kanzure> .. because we're smarter than that?
01:20 < genehacker> fenn? where'd you encounter that meme?
01:20 < fenn> problem with viruses is they evolve to the minimum message length required for replication
01:20 < genehacker> don't tell me...
01:20 < fenn> genehacker: email signatures
01:20 < genehacker> oh
01:20 < genehacker> interesting
01:21 < fenn> one of the lamer explicit memes i've seen
01:21 < kanzure> journal clubs might be an interesting mechanism
01:21 < kanzure> but unfortunately it's more academic than otherwise
01:21 < kanzure> a schematic club might be more appropriate
01:22 < fenn> we want a do tank not a read tank
01:22 < kanzure> "must share at least one awesome blueprint, or something"
01:22 < fenn> yeah
01:22 < genehacker> OH OH I GOT SOME OF THOSE
01:22 < fenn> there is precedent in the form of writing criticism groups
01:22 < kanzure> since when?
01:22 < fenn> and "the robot group" *snicker*
01:22 < kanzure> in a retirement home hehe
01:23 < fenn> god those guys suck so much it makes me embarrassed
01:23 < genehacker> yeah
01:23 < fenn> ok so a show and tell circle
01:24 < fenn> unfortunately this requires short feedback cycles
01:24 < genehacker> that would be actlab
01:24 < kanzure> hm
01:24 < fenn> so it excludes long term projects
01:24 < kanzure> actlab is for glue projects
01:24 < fenn> hot glue?
01:24 < kanzure> sexy glue
01:24 < fenn> erhh?
01:24 < fenn> i'm not convinced yet that actlab has it all wrong
01:25 < kanzure> then you need to attend their sessions ;-)
01:25 < fenn> maybe i do
01:25 < kanzure> you already do?
01:25 < fenn> are they still in session? what with school year being over and all
01:25 < kanzure> don't know
01:25 < genehacker> hot glue indeed
01:25 < kanzure> I usually go to their dorkbot sessions
01:25 < kanzure> anyway
01:25 < fenn> dorkbot is basically what we're talking about isnt it
01:26 < kanzure> not really.
01:26 < kanzure> dorkbot is like the robot group except worse
01:26 < kanzure> er, larger
01:26 < fenn> i've never been to dorkbot. isnt it basically show and tell?
01:26 < kanzure> yes
01:26 < fenn> but?
01:26 < genehacker> yes
01:26 < kanzure> "here's my blinkenled"
01:26 < genehacker> NO THAT WAS A LASER HARP
01:26 < kanzure> so what
01:26 < genehacker> built from foam board
01:27 < fenn> here is the way i see it
01:27 < kanzure> I don't know if a WIP-club would be good or not
01:27 < fenn> if someone is going to build a laser harp they have some level of technical skill, and also have enough free time to waste on a laser harp
01:27 < fenn> on ther other hand, they wasted that time on a laser harp
01:28 < kanzure> I want a hoarding club
01:28 < fenn> so it's a net improvement in signal to noise ratio because you have +2 -1
01:28 < kanzure> could we do a hoarding club?
01:28 < fenn> thats what atxfab is for
01:28 < kanzure> oh right
01:29 < fenn> WIP club sounds reasonable
01:29 < genehacker> data hoarding?
01:29 < genehacker> WIP =?
01:29 < kanzure> work-in-progress
01:29 < fenn> it might be so underwhelming to attend that we dont get any repeat attendees
01:29 < genehacker> oh
01:29 < kanzure> not work-in-possible-future
01:30 < genehacker> if it doesn't get us the people
01:30 < genehacker> I'm spamming meat space
01:30 < fenn> this is a meatspace project
01:30 < fenn> the WIP sewing circle
01:31 < kanzure> sometimes I think it would just be easier to make more of me than find more
01:31 < fenn> isnt that what we're doing with gene? or trying to
01:31 < genehacker> clones take a long time to grow
01:31 < genehacker> but it can be done
01:31 < kanzure> I don't mean clones.
01:31 < genehacker> oh
01:31 < kanzure> fenn: doesn't seem to be working :p
01:31 < fenn> he means induced autism
01:31 < kanzure> that's right.
01:32 < fenn> your prescription drugs wont work on me! ha ha!
01:32 < kanzure> did you try them
01:32 < genehacker> speaking of that I need to build me a transcrainial DC stimulator
01:32 < fenn> no
01:32 < genehacker> oh make more of you that way
01:32 < genehacker> nice
01:32 < genehacker> lace the water supply?
01:32 < kanzure> the people from 4chan and somethingawful kind of do it that way too
01:32 < fenn> which way?
01:33 < kanzure> kind of like the way people become accustomed to shock sites
01:33 < genehacker> huh?
01:33 < kanzure> except it's "shock autism" or something
01:33 < genehacker> SURPRISE AUTISM
01:33 < fenn> hm.
01:33 < fenn> are you sure it's not just because they're anime watchers?
01:33 < genehacker> but that's just anon talking
01:33 < kanzure> oh, well.
01:33 < fenn> i mean its not like normal people go to 4chan
01:34 < genehacker> maybe they are anime watchers because of it
01:34 < fenn> nup
01:34 < kanzure> yes, there's a strong correlation with anime watchers or something
01:34 < fenn> that would be a violation of causality
01:34 < kanzure> just need to find a bunch of angsty 11 year olds who claim to know 20 programming languages and watch DBZ or something
01:34 < fenn> anime -> 4chan, not the other way around
01:34 < genehacker> Did you see season 2 yet?
01:34 < kanzure> of what
01:34 < fenn> 4chan the TV show
01:34  * fenn shudders
01:35 < genehacker> no SOS brigade show
01:35 < fenn> i bet they could pull it off, too
01:35 < genehacker> WAIT OFF TOPIC DISREGARD THAT
01:36 < genehacker> sorry there
01:36 < genehacker> perhaps we should implement a search algorithm
01:36 < kanzure> 32,000 queries and counting
01:36 < kanzure> (yes, I count them)
01:36 < genehacker> random walk helped me find a review session the other day
01:37 < kanzure> what I'm really wondering is where the hell all of these coauthors of science papers are
01:37 < kanzure> do they just .. vanish?
01:37 < kanzure> the ones that aren't professors
01:37 < genehacker> hmmm...
01:37 < fenn> coauthors are usually just people who helped write the code
01:37 < kanzure> says who?
01:37 < kanzure> or how do you figure?
01:37 < fenn> says me, halfheartedly
01:37 < genehacker> assasinated perhaps?
01:38 < fenn> well nobody knows how to do everything; if they did there'd be no point in forming a lab/working group
01:38 < kanzure> so you think it's mostly code?
01:38 < fenn> so coauthors fill in the gaps in the authors' skillset
01:38 < kanzure> hrm.
01:38 < fenn> not necessarily code, could be anything
01:38 < kanzure> I always thought that they might be handing off written sections. 
01:38 < fenn> maybe
01:38 < fenn> it seems to me that the majority of actual projects are done by an individual
01:39 < kanzure> sure
01:39 < genehacker> I need me some coauthors to figure out how to get me some phosphoramidite nucleosides
01:39 < kanzure> and then the professors take credit (which is obvious though)
01:39 < kanzure> genehacker: what's wrong with using sigma-aldrich or something for starters
01:39 < fenn> well, the professor did provide lots of things necessary to get the paper done, like hiring the student and providing a lab and so on
01:39 < kanzure> or SMILES for searching
01:39 < kanzure> fenn: sure. and the grant :)
01:39 < genehacker> they're expensive and limiting
01:39 < fenn> not saying it's right, but that's the way it is
01:40 < kanzure> so in the end nobody ends up knowing what the paper was about? or what?
01:40 < fenn> students should learn how to write grants (and also grant agencies should fund students directly)
01:40 < kanzure> where do these coauthors that don't go on to make their own labs, go?
01:40 < kanzure> and how can I harvest them.
01:40 < fenn> the Real World probably
01:40 < kanzure> I need to do some automatic querying over my collected bibliographies
01:40 < fenn> which usually means something intimidatingly boring
01:40 < kanzure> to figure out where these coauthors go 
01:40 < kanzure> or which ones have private servers
01:40 < fenn> private servers! hah
01:41 < kanzure> hm?
01:41 < kanzure> it's a good way to constrain the search
01:41 < fenn> we may be living in the future, .. oh
01:41 < fenn> right
01:41 < kanzure> what?
01:41 < genehacker> soon as REDACTED finds out about diybio we might not able to get stuff from sigma aldrich
01:41 < genehacker> therefore we can't rely on them
01:41 < fenn> ok, so coauthors with their own server may be clueful enough to work on something useful
01:41 < kanzure> or clueful enough to know someone useful
01:41 < genehacker> I don't want diybio to be something that can be regulated into oblivion
01:41 < kanzure> the grad student that I worked under in the ellington lab, he was a transhuman
01:41 < kanzure> transhumanist, I mean
01:42 < fenn> genehacker: you cant get stuff from sigma aldrich anyway
01:42 < kanzure> and knew a guy like me up in Maryland
01:42 < kanzure> er, the cyborg guy
01:42 < genehacker> oh yeah forgot about that
01:42 < genehacker> cool
01:42 < kanzure> but anyway
01:42 < fenn> genehacker: the "real" diybio can never be regulated because laws are imaginary
01:42 < genehacker> I'm rooming with a couple "mysterious grad student"
01:42 < kanzure> ?
01:42 < fenn> that's sort of the point, but then people on the diybio mailing list seem to have missed
01:43 < kanzure> and apparently neither of us are bright enough to expound on that point :/
01:43 < kanzure> or something
01:43 < genehacker> well fenn if you can't make the chemicals then you've got a problem
01:43 < fenn> kanzure: the ellington guy was cyborg or the guy he knew was?
01:43 < kanzure> who says you can't make the chemicals?
01:43  * fenn is just rolling with the punches
01:43 < kanzure> fenn: the guy he knew
01:43 < genehacker> exactly the point kanzure
01:43 < kanzure> michael wittig was the graduate student who supervised me, he was the transhumanist
01:43 < genehacker> we need to make them
01:43 < fenn> genehacker: i agree we've got a problem which is why i'm writing SKDB
01:43 < kanzure> but for some reason people aren't contributing to some baseline help or something
01:43 < genehacker> so they walk among us
01:44 < genehacker> how did you find out he was?
01:44 < kanzure> if you work with a guy every day, you start talking about things.
01:44 < genehacker> hey is H+ a fairly well recognized symbol among transhumanists?
01:44 < kanzure> he was the one who told me about myostatin actually
01:44 < fenn> do you still talk with him?
01:44 < kanzure> not as much as I should
01:44 < kanzure> we run into each other on the street from time to time
01:44 < fenn> H+ is more likely to be interpreted as 'proton' :)
01:44 < kanzure> he's been keeping radio silence .. he always has, sort of
01:45 < genehacker> by the normals
01:45 < fenn> normals dont know what a proton is
01:45 < kanzure> no. H+ is just stupid
01:45 < kanzure> I wonder if I can get wittig in here. /me goes to dig around on his IM accounts
01:45 < fenn> some people just arent into IRC for whatever reason
01:45 < genehacker> who's wittig
01:45 < fenn> it is a massive time sink after all
01:46 < fenn> wittig is the H+ grad student
01:46 < ultraleibniz> yes
01:46 < fenn> is this some sort of windows machine?
01:46 < genehacker> I wasn't into IRC before kanzure introduced me'
01:46 < ultraleibniz> fenn: no. it's the leibniz/monolith box.
01:46 < ultraleibniz> genehacker: arguably you aren't into IRC
01:46 < fenn> oh the big black boat anchor
01:46 < ultraleibniz> you still use chatzilla :)
01:46 < ultraleibniz> yeah that one
01:46 < fenn> arguably i'm not into irc
01:46 < genehacker> how can you tell?
01:47 < fenn> since i'm only on two channels :P
01:47 < genehacker> I DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE COMPUTERS
01:47 < ultraleibniz> genehacker: your login uname
01:47 < ultraleibniz> really?
01:47 < ultraleibniz> er, hostname
01:47 < genehacker> oh
01:47 < genehacker> hold on
01:48 < fenn> i realized i was wasting a lot of time with the dickheads in #reprap so i decided to just stop joining a bunch of channels that weren't really providing anything anymore
01:48 < fenn> not that #reprap ever provided anything
01:49 < genehacker> that reminds me
01:49 < genehacker> I've got a gear profile to generate
01:49 < fenn> i've got multiple gear profile scripts
01:50 < genehacker> what about for internal gears skiddie?
01:50 < fenn> no, probably not
01:50 < genehacker> don't take the skiddie thing bad, you could say I am one when it comes to things like that too
01:50 < fenn> i dont even know what that means
01:51 < fenn> h0tm41L h4X0r?
01:51 < fenn> "Someone who gives No Credit to the maker of The code he stole. Or someone that is just a total n00b that knows nothing about anything that thinks he knows everything about everything."
01:51 < katsmeow-afk> ....one of these monkeys will eventually create a masterpiece. Keen updates and reverses the theorem, replacing monkeys with humans and typewriters with networked personal computers; and "instead of creating masterpieces, these millions and millions of exuberant monkeys--many with no more talent than our primate cousins--are creating an endless digital forest of mediocrity
01:52 < genehacker> http://chestofbooks.com/home-improvement/workshop/Machine-Shop-Work/Laying-Out-Teeth.html
01:52 < genehacker> skiddie= script kiddie
01:52 < fenn> i could live up to the second definition
01:52 < genehacker> yeah
01:52 < fenn> but so could anybody
01:53 < genehacker> so I'm not so sure I trust their method of generating gear teeth
01:53 < fenn> that is not how gears are made
01:53 < genehacker> by made do you mean layed out?
01:53 < fenn> er. well you dont lay out a gear
01:53 < genehacker> I'm designing gears in cad
01:54 < genehacker> I LAY OUT A GEAR
01:54 < fenn> i mean it doesn't help because they're made in a generative process
01:54 < genehacker> not the one's I'm making 
01:54 < fenn> it's sort of like making 3d models of a circuit board
01:54 < genehacker> the one's I'm making are likely going to be 3d printed off on an SLS 3d printer
01:54 < fenn> unless you make some crappy laser cut acrylic gear
01:55 < fenn> is SLS accurate enough for gear teeth?
01:55 < genehacker> but I can't use the laser cutter
01:55 < fenn> i mean, say you wanted to make a planetary gearbox for a cordless drill
01:55 < genehacker> sls is accurate enough for semidecent ball bearings
01:55 < genehacker> and yes
01:55 < genehacker> it is 
01:55 < genehacker> a lot of people here have gear cubes
01:55 < fenn> that's a toy
01:56 < fenn> you can make it with a z-corp machine
01:56 < genehacker> yeah
01:56 < fenn> it doesnt mean SLS is the "preferred method" for making gears
01:56 < genehacker> indeed
01:56 < genehacker> but I need to be able to layout a gear profile
01:56 < fenn> kanzure: what's albert going to be doing now that he graduated? do you know?
01:57 < ultraleibniz> he's working for a medical company in houston called flextronics
01:57 < ultraleibniz> medical device design company
01:57 < fenn> that sounds familiar.. is it where rauchwerk .. works?
01:57 < ultraleibniz> erm, I was thinking it was just another medical device design company
01:58 < ultraleibniz> the one that rauchwerk did as a startup was in louissianna or something
01:58 < genehacker> the one that has posters up all over campus looking for people to study heat dissipation or something like that for medical implants?
01:58 < ultraleibniz> I once found rauchwerk's company via some stealthy googling
01:58 < ultraleibniz> so it's not impossible to find
01:59 < fenn> probably on his resume
02:00 < fenn> hm. he paid for google ads for actualhardware.com
02:00 < fenn> someone please explain
02:00 < genehacker> ???
02:00 < fenn> and while you're at it explain wtf resistorbeterminated.com is about
02:01 < genehacker> makerbot movie tie in 
02:01 < genehacker> ARG
02:01 < genehacker> as in alternate reality game
02:01 < genehacker> can't figure out what is in the box is about though
02:02 < fenn> why is bre pettis making youtube movies about electronic widgets stealing his DNA? and why are they saturating makezine's advertising space?
02:03 < fenn> i mean makerbot doesnt have anything to do with terminators
02:03 < fenn> and they dont have enough money for random advertising like that do they?
02:03 < genehacker> they want you to think it does 
02:05 < genehacker> http://artscienceaustin.blogspot.com/
02:05 < genehacker> there might be some of them here
02:05 < genehacker> headed up by an interesting mol-bio person I think
02:06 < genehacker> one  them works with ellington or aptamers I think
02:10 < fenn> heh nano toilet
02:14 < fenn> 21 people on artscienceaustin, worth looking into
02:21 < genehacker> that's new too
02:21 < genehacker> ugh
02:21 < genehacker> feeling weak
02:23 < fenn> crap did i just fail a turing test?
02:24 < fenn> "CrossFit picks up the WSJ article" is this spam?
02:25 < genehacker> huh?
02:27 < genehacker> ugh need IV hookup
02:27 < fenn> i suggest orange juice
02:27 < fenn> and then sleep
02:28 < genehacker> I just had some super pomegranate lemonade juice
02:28 < fenn> dont forget to brush your teeth
02:28 < genehacker> well of course
02:38 < kanzure> maybe from now on I'll start giving out handout presents of "one seemingly impossible problem to be solved at your convenience"
02:38 < kanzure> er, + "cards" to the cdr of that message.
02:41 < fenn> error: CDR already occupied
02:41 < fenn> perhaps you meant cadr
02:42 < fenn> ignore me, i'm supposed to be reading my book
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05:14 < bkero> ybit: Sometimes.  Right now I'm writing a new IO scheduler in the Linux kernel
05:14 < bkero> that's fun
05:14 < bkero> Other times I'm figuring out some good ways to do gel runs in the kitchen
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13:25 < kanzure> http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/pathogen-insecurity-and-bio-wmd.html
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14:30 < kanzure> ah, lisp apparently has a make-struct function that I should be using
14:31 < kanzure> total queries to Google: 35,776
14:32 < kanzure> too bad it doesn't count Google Scholar queries
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15:07 < kanzure> there's a #reddit ?
15:16 < kanzure> heh. #4chan on rizon has Nam-Ereh-Won.
15:17 < kanzure> he went to high school with me.
15:46 < bkero> oh dear 4chan
15:56 < fenn> kanzure: les is asking when i'm moving out etc..
15:56 < fenn> mostly because whatsisname is moving in
15:57 < fenn> in ~2 days
16:00 < kanzure> "Molecular evolution of microcephalin, a gene determining human brain size" <-- wheee.
16:01 < kanzure> fenn: ok. let me look into paperwork and make sure that my rent doesn't go up if you move in, or something.
16:11 < kanzure> "Transport of hemolysin across the outer membrane of Escherichia coli requires two functions.
16:11 < kanzure> what? alpha-hemolysin is on the outer membrane of ecoli?
16:11 < kanzure> that's the same protein that the nanopore-sequencing-goons are using for their nanopore.
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17:21 < genehacker> http://bytesizebio.net/index.php/2009/05/22/light-for-cellular-communication/
17:22 < genehacker> I would really like a fiberoptic nervous system
17:27 < fenn> an electrical nervous system wouldnt be a bad start either
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17:28 < genehacker> hows the weather down there?
17:28 < fenn> earthlike
17:29 < genehacker> I was expecting horrible
17:29 < fenn> it rained yesterday
17:29 < genehacker> just looked at the radar for austin 
17:30 < genehacker> oops thats not in austin though
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18:50 < kanzure> huh. go figure.
18:50 < kanzure> http://www.n-a-n-o.com/lisp/cmucl-tutorials/LISP-tutorial-15.html
18:53 < fenn> #s is make-struct?
18:54 < fenn> or is defstruct make-struct/
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18:55 < fenn> it seems sort of magical.. how does make-foo know to do anything at all
19:09 < kanzure> do not question the lisp!
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19:55 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Visualization%20of%20targeted%20transduction%20by%20engineered%20lentiviral%20vectors.pdf.fig4.png
19:55 < kanzure> anyone who doesn't think that's the most awesome thing ever should die
20:03 < fenn> looks like a video game
20:27 < fenn> yay yaml folding
20:28 < fenn> edit .kde/share/apps/katepart/syntax/yaml.xml (you may have to download this) and after <general> add <folding indentationsensitive="1" />
20:29 < fenn> i'm sort of annoyed it's not on by default
20:34 < kanzure> folding of what? is it just indentation-sensitive?
20:34 < kanzure> oh
20:34 < kanzure> I wonder if I read that before or after I asked the question
20:37 < fenn> it's just indentation.. i'm trying to get it to work with other stuff now
20:38 < fenn> vim syntax files are a lot easier to understand
20:52 < kanzure> I've been meaning to set gedit up to do syntax highlighting for lisp.
20:52 < kanzure> just been lazy
21:03 < kanzure> hm. "make-*" doesn't appear anywhere in the sources
21:03 < kanzure> ah, nevermind
21:03 < kanzure> included an extra whitespace
21:05 < kanzure> aha. create-fp.
21:05 < kanzure> er, the constructor. of course .. what a novel idea.
21:05  * kanzure goes into a corner to cry
21:25 < fenn> you know i think coding may be bad for mental health
22:01 < kanzure> "everything is an object!"
22:50 < genehacker> do it for science
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23:09 < ybit> fenn: do you have the fab lab, tech shop comparison on fennetic?
23:09 < kanzure> graphs and diagrams uploaded
23:09 < ybit> some of the links are missing from my grab
23:10 < ybit> kanzure: was that to me?
23:10 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/?C=M;O=D
23:10 < kanzure> no, just in general.
23:11 < kanzure> um, is there a way to clone antibodies?
23:11 < kanzure> http://www.rndsystems.com/product_results.aspx?k=gasp-1
23:11 < kanzure> $315 for 25 micrograms of GASP-1, a potent inhibitor of myostatin
23:14 < genehacker> kanzure
23:14 < genehacker> follistatin
23:14 < kanzure> it inhibits actin.
23:14 < kanzure> no thanks.
23:15 < genehacker> clone antibodies
23:15 < genehacker> hmmm 
23:15 < genehacker> I think so
23:15 < kanzure> I thoguht this was a relatively common technique
23:15 < genehacker> yeah me too
23:15 < kanzure> like, one of those that happens to be so common that I've just ignored it even though I shouldn't have
23:15 < genehacker> I don't know how it's done or what it's called
23:16 < genehacker> btw why do you want myostatin inhibitors
23:16 < genehacker> is it for the obvious reason or do you have some mice?
23:16 < kanzure> I used to have some mice. or relatives of mice, at least.
23:17 < genehacker> http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/myostati-inhibitor-update-boosting.html
23:18 < genehacker> what's GASP-1
23:19 < kanzure> didn't you read the papers I linked to?
23:19 < kanzure> here:
23:19 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/myostatin/
23:19 < genehacker> http://www.news-medical.net/news/2008/01/23/34633.aspx
23:19 < genehacker> tendons
23:20 < genehacker> WTF?
23:20 < genehacker> my PDF reader isn't working in my webbrowser
23:21 < genehacker> ADOBE! >:(
23:21 < kanzure> why do you read papers in a browser
23:22 < kanzure> http://www.pnas.org.ezproxy.lib.utexas.edu/content/105/1/388.abstract
23:22 < kanzure> wonder if these were gene knockout mice
23:23 < kanzure> there's a huge difference between partial inhibition and total inhibition by "uh, the gene no longer functions at all"
23:24 < genehacker> waht you don't read papers in a browser
23:24 < kanzure> hell no
23:24 < kanzure> browsers are not PDF readers
23:25 < genehacker> why?
23:25 < kanzure> there are better tools that do the same job ..
23:25 < kanzure> kpdf, xpdf, gs, etc. etc.
23:26 < genehacker> what are those?
23:26 < genehacker> am I missing something?
23:26 < kanzure> they are PDF viewers.
23:28 < kanzure> "gs" is "ghostviewer". (it's hard to search for two-letter programs)
23:28 < genehacker> ok
23:28 < genehacker> which one is the best?
23:28 < kanzure> um. um..
23:28 < kanzure> one sec.
23:29 < kanzure> http://pdfreaders.org/
23:29 < kanzure> I guess okular?
23:29 < kanzure> I've never used it.
23:29 < kanzure> ah, "evince" is the one that is installed by default on ubuntu
23:31 < genehacker> well then I need to get ubuntu to work with the internet at my house
23:31 < kanzure> http://wubi-installer.org/
23:31 < genehacker> the network has a very long encryption key
23:32 < genehacker> got it installed
23:32 < kanzure> search the net first for how to get ubuntu working with wireless then
23:32 < kanzure> instead of doing it the other way around