--- Day changed Fri May 29 2009 00:02 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:42 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:42 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:47 < genehacker> I know the allegory 00:52 < genehacker> http://www.grabup.com/uploads/240ccede5360b093dbf298f8946025a5.png 04:57 -!- elias` [n=me@resnet-pat-254.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:20 -!- jm|earth [n=j@p57B9E7C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:02 -!- jm|afk [n=j@p57B9C482.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:07 -!- jm|earth [n=j@p57B9E7C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:12 -!- jm|afk [n=j@p57B9C482.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 08:31 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@pool-173-57-41-223.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:55 < kanzure> heh. building-sized animatronics. 09:26 -!- ober [i=ober@babum.mauthesis.com] has left #hplusroadmap ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:29 < kanzure> there's an IRC for emacs? really? 09:57 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:02 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:07 < kanzure> hello ybit 10:09 < ybit> hey kanzure 10:26 < kanzure> ligandosides? 10:27 < ybit> nucleoside mimics... 10:27 < ybit> linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1631074803001346 10:44 -!- jm [n=j@p57B9C482.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:54 < kanzure> http://www.stanford.edu/group/kool/kool.htm 12:08 < kanzure> what you really need to do is block the polymerase template strand site with some sort of super molecule that responds to different wavelengths of light and changes shape to one of the four nucleotides 12:09 < kanzure> it may be easier to just start from scratch and find four chemicals that you would like to use as the artificial nucleotides or whatever 12:09 < kanzure> and then hack the polymerase via in vitro compartmentalization to make better choices for incorporation 12:27 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:28 < xp_prg> http://www.physorg.com/news162649086.html 12:28 < xp_prg> so, it only took 7 embryos?! 12:36 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-72-177-123-170.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:28 -!- kardan_ [n=kardan@p54BE6870.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56 -!- kanzure- [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:17 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@w-central-233-242.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:38 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@w-central-233-242.public.utexas.edu] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:00 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:27 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE6870.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:44 -!- jm [n=j@p57B9C482.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:58 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@pool-173-48-214-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:14 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@pool-173-57-41-223.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:04 -!- Netsplit kubrick.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: kanzure 17:05 -!- Netsplit over, joins: kanzure 17:33 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:49 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:55 < fenn> what am i supposed to do with this inventory list? 17:56 -!- fenn_ [n=fenn@cpe-72-177-52-180.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:59 -!- fenn [n=fenn@cpe-72-177-52-180.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:59 -!- kardan_ [n=kardan@p54BE6E4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:01 -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn 18:01 < fenn> this thingy was generated by a python script http://imagebin.org/50847 18:02 < fenn> i dont know what it is, but it proves the concept for heekscad at least 18:05 < genehacker> instructables is down? 18:09 < fenn> the internet just blew up 18:09 -!- bryan_ [n=bryan@dhcp-128-83-195-124.biosci.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:10 < bryan_> blah 18:11 < fenn> good morning to you too 18:13 < bkero> Any of you d00dz want a cheap computer? Coworker at intel is selling his rig. XFX nForce 680i SLI board, E6600 Core 2 Duo, and 2x1GB DDR800 Mushkin for $200 18:14 < fenn> tbh that doesnt sound terribly impressive 18:16 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE6870.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:16 < bryan_> for some reason grub doesn't want to boot up ubuntu on my laptop 18:16 < bryan_> all I did was boot into windows to install MSVC9 2008 .. 18:17 < fenn> you get the grub menu? 18:17 < bryan_> fenn: did some spectrophotometry of 680 nm today of extracts from the spiral filter running on 1/12th hp 18:17 < bryan_> no 18:17 < bryan_> just a grub command line 18:17 < fenn> huh. 18:17 < bryan_> anyway, the data shows an increasing trend in absorbance 18:17 < bryan_> for n=1 to n=5 runs through the filter of the same sample 18:18 < fenn> is that a good thing? 18:18 < bryan_> I don't know 18:18 < bryan_> I think something might be wrong with the universe 18:18 < fenn> maybe it's breaking up clusters of cells 18:18 < bryan_> honestly this thing shouldn't work 18:18 < bryan_> and we didn't do measurements on the other stream output to see if it's greater or less on that one 18:18 < bryan_> so that needs to be checked too 18:18 < bryan_> I did have one idea though 18:19 < bryan_> what if you take the output and route it into a new tank to do incubation 18:19 < bryan_> then you're positively selecting for algae that is easily harvestable via this method 18:19 < bryan_> so do that for some number of generations 18:19 < fenn> eh.. good luck with that 18:19 < bryan_> no? 18:20 < fenn> well, try it and see 18:20 < bryan_> is there something obvious that I am neglecting that you see? 18:20 < bryan_> I don't know whether or not to trust myself after this thing works .. 18:20 < bryan_> something is definitely wrong with the universe 18:20 < genehacker> whoa 18:20 < fenn> isnt it just a scaled up version of the microfluidics thing? 18:20 < bryan_> although I guess we haven't compared absorbance between both samples 18:21 < genehacker> does it work? 18:21 < bryan_> fenn: but it's supposed to only work for laminar flows 18:21 < bryan_> this is not a laminar flow 18:21 < bryan_> genehacker: not sure 18:21 < fenn> how do you know it's not laminar? 18:21 < genehacker> it works 18:21 < genehacker> HAHAHA 18:21 < genehacker> increased absorbance= increased concentration 18:22 < bryan_> fenn: reynolds number is way too large 18:23 < bryan_> genehacker: but we didn't test the other output stream 18:23 < nsh> http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/05/rna-engineered-to-count-while-in-living.html 18:23 < bryan_> nsh: paperlink or it didn't happen :) 18:23 < nsh> you find it 18:23 < bryan_> bah 18:23 < genehacker> nsh you reddit? 18:24 * nsh is betting this will lead to intra-cellular turing-completeness within one decade and 5 geniuses 18:24 < nsh> i read reddit, yeah 18:24 < fenn> nsh: they didnt even use bit encoding 18:24 < genehacker> you didn 18:24 < genehacker> 't 18:24 < genehacker> test the output? 18:25 < nsh> "The RTC Counter can be "reset" to start counting the same series over again, but it has no way to "remember" what it has counted. The team's second counter, called the DIC (DNA Invertase Cascade) Counter, can encode digital memory, storing a series of "bits" of information." 18:26 < fenn> that's just journalist bullshit. it counts in series 18:27 < genehacker> noise 18:27 < genehacker> biological systems are damn noisy 18:27 < fenn> ideally you'd have gray coding for noise resistance, but binary would prove that it's scalable 18:27 < genehacker> look at what you see 18:27 < genehacker> notice the noise? 18:33 < nsh> noted thanks, fenn 18:35 < genehacker> you mean something like trinary code? 18:35 < genehacker> ternary I mean 18:35 < genehacker> you know the russians built a ternary computer? 18:39 < fenn> in binary it's easy to get the wrong number by a power of 2^n where n is random 18:39 < fenn> +- 2^n 18:39 < nsh> ternary is in some ways more efficient than binary for computing as it's closest to base e, which simplifies multiplication 18:39 < nsh> if i recall correctly 18:39 < fenn> gray code makes it so that those sorts of errors can't happen 18:39 < fenn> heh nsh why not just use e-nary :) 18:39 < nsh> however, their are electronic disadvantages that are considered to outweigh the benefits of ternary on the physical layer 18:40 < nsh> word, i'll get right onto my transcendental EPROM ;-) 18:41 < nsh> (would like to see what happens if by some esoteric result in physics that becomes possible...) 18:41 < fenn> lots of information theory already talks in terms of nats 18:41 < nsh> interesting, know any examples off-hand? 18:41 < fenn> er, no 18:42 < nsh> np 18:42 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_(information) 18:42 < nsh> on it 18:42 < genehacker> explain graycode 18:42 < genehacker> if you don't mind 18:43 < genehacker> I'm sewing right now 18:45 < nsh> because, they say you rip what you sew 18:45 < nsh> ok, i'll go to sleep... 18:46 < fenn> genehacker: you know about absolute encoders right? 18:46 < genehacker> believe me it's true 18:46 < genehacker> no 18:46 < fenn> oh ffs what do they teach you in school 18:46 < fenn> ok an optical encoder is like on a ball mouse 18:47 < genehacker> oh yeah 18:47 < fenn> when you turn the wheel a slot interrupts a beam of light 18:47 < genehacker> yeah I know that 18:47 < fenn> that is an incremental encoder, it only keeps track of the least significant bit 18:47 < fenn> an absolute encoder stores the whole byte (or whatever number of bits) 18:47 < fenn> that way when you boot up your robot it knows where it is already, without having to go through some kind of initialization procedure 18:48 < fenn> ok here are two absolute encoders http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/quiz/01237x01.png 18:48 < fenn> the one on the left is binary, the one on the right is gray code 18:48 < fenn> notice that the binary has places where a large number of bits change at once 18:48 < fenn> but the gray code only changes one at a time 18:50 < bryan_> heh 18:50 < bryan_> http://sata.serveftp.org/~bryan/spiral_results/ 18:50 < fenn> when you're sending a signal down a noisy bus, you can confuse the receiving end into thinking that you're suddenly at 255, but a gray code receiver would know better and discard the result as noise 18:50 < bryan_> imagej rocks for this sort of thing 18:50 < fenn> because a large number of bits would have to change at once 18:50 < bryan_> these kids were counting the cells by hand 18:51 < bryan_> fenn: will you be around for a few minutes longer? 18:51 < fenn> ya 18:51 < bryan_> joseph might be bringing in some guests 18:51 < fenn> hm. 18:51 < bryan_> for his conference thingy 18:53 < fenn> hey that's not a .xls file! 18:54 < fenn> it's tab-delimited 18:55 < genehacker> yeah they still count cells by hand 18:55 < fenn> fools! 18:55 < fenn> that's what a flow cytometer is for 18:55 < genehacker> you get one of those clicker things an click away 18:55 < bryan_> seriously though, wtf 18:55 < genehacker> for one minute 18:56 < bryan_> one minute of doodling around with imagej and apt-get and the problem is solved 18:56 < bryan_> stephen was going to sit around counting them by hand 18:56 < bryan_> with his eyes pressed up to the 'scope 18:56 < genehacker> flow cytometers are expensive, clickers are cheap, microscopes are abundant, and undergrads need jobs 18:56 < genehacker> imagej some stuff 18:56 < fenn> genehacker: you're fired 18:56 < bryan_> heh 18:57 < bryan_> fenn: were we ever paying him? 18:57 < fenn> now he gets negative cash 18:57 * bryan_ checks the group's bank account funds 18:57 < bryan_> it's kinda dry 18:57 < genehacker> I thought you guy's didn't use cash you used wuffie? 18:57 < fenn> ah that's because i've been funneling into offshore banks 18:58 < genehacker> good I hear micronesian stone coins are a very stable form of currency 18:58 < fenn> millions of years baby 18:58 < fenn> copper barely lasts a century when exposed to the elements 18:59 * fenn mutters something about glass optical coins with digital signatures 18:59 < genehacker> so put it in a container in the vacuum of space 18:59 < genehacker> DVDs 19:00 < fenn> you certainly don't understand the whole 'buried treasure' thing 19:00 < bryan_> ok, joseph's not coming 19:00 < bryan_> wah 19:00 < genehacker> the container is an iron asteroid 19:00 < genehacker> thats how space pirates do it 19:05 < genehacker> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=071009-technovel-spacemo-02.jpg&cap=Quasi+Universal+Intergalactic+Denomination+or+QUID+is+the+first+currency+of+its+kind+in+the+universe.+Credit%3A+Business+Wire 19:05 < genehacker> SPACE COINS 19:08 < fenn> you know, with RFID that wouldnt be a terrible idea 19:09 < fenn> but they shouldnt be shaped like coins 19:09 < fenn> little stuff like that gets lost too easily in zero gravity 19:09 < fenn> you'd want something like a carabiner i think 19:10 < genehacker> RFID= easily damagable by space radiation 19:10 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has quit [] 19:10 < genehacker> unless you make the chips big and on sapphire... 19:10 < genehacker> hmmm 19:11 < fenn> i guess the question is 'is the token the unit of exchange, or the number' 19:11 < fenn> erm, number = cryptographic key 19:12 < genehacker> if you are far from banks on earth and it takes 20 minutes to validate your key then people might exploit it 19:12 < fenn> no, not server based 19:12 < fenn> that's a terrible idea on any planet 19:13 < fenn> transactions have to be self contained 19:13 < genehacker> when it doubt dike it out 19:13 < genehacker> would you even need money on say an asteroid full of resources? 19:14 < genehacker> if you had a super factory capable of making damn near anything? 19:14 < fenn> depends whether you need money or not 19:15 < genehacker> how about mechanical bump pattern? 19:17 < fenn> like the fiducials on http://reactivision.sourceforge.net/ 19:31 < ultraleibniz> back 19:31 < ultraleibniz> fenn: what's the most expensive CFD program that you know of 19:32 < genehacker> [commercial CFD program here] 19:34 < ultraleibniz> well yeah 19:34 < fenn> uh. well probably the most famous one, so that would be NASTRAN 19:34 < fenn> hmm no that's not very expensive 19:35 < fenn> i give up 19:35 < fenn> i dont know any cfd programs 20:23 < ultraleibniz> ANSYS has some stuff apparently 20:23 < ultraleibniz> CFD-CAD is another name for something (wtf?) 20:35 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:06 < drazak_> kanzure: should I find supporting papers and post my microfluidics sequencer to diybio? or should I keep that crap to myself? 21:51 < ultraleibniz> drazak_: I recommend posting 21:51 < drazak_> well 21:51 < ultraleibniz> also, grub still fails and I can't figure out what's wrong with the limited command line utility it's providing me 21:51 < drazak_> what error? 21:51 < ultraleibniz> there is no error 21:51 < ultraleibniz> it just doesn't boot ubuntu 21:51 < ultraleibniz> although it boots windows.. 21:52 < drazak_> well that's just chainloader +1, that's easy 21:52 < ultraleibniz> what? 21:52 < drazak_> what do you have for your lines for booting ubuntu? 21:52 < drazak_> the line in the grub config file for booting windows 21:52 < ultraleibniz> erm, I don't know it off the top of my head and it's currently going through some memory diagnostic thingy provided by microsoft 21:53 < ultraleibniz> so I'll grab it in a few minutes 21:53 < drazak_> lol 22:29 < fenn> "Setup would notify pilots when brain overload is causing dangerous levels of stress, fatigue and distraction." 22:30 < fenn> i didnt know 'brain overload' was a technical term 22:31 < fenn> The researchers are using functional near infrared spectroscopy (fNIRS) and other imaging technology to measure blood flow in the brain's cortex and the concentration of oxygen in the blood. This emerging technology offers a non-invasive, safe, portable and inexpensive method for monitoring indicators of neural activity 23:41 < genehacker> interesting