--- Day changed Fri Jun 19 2009
00:00 < ybit> so a few questions, who is doing the led photolith device and is it in a clean room, how clean if so, what was or is being used to make it like so?
00:01 < genehacker> I have no idea
00:01 < genehacker> ask kanzure
00:04 < ybit> ooh, me likey: "A photo-polymerization resist for UV nanoimprint lithography"
00:05 < genehacker> find me how to make photolabile phosphoramidites from chemicals under your kitchen sink and you made my day
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09:37 < kanzure> http://www.xkcd.com/594/
09:37 < kanzure> (uterus-herz)
09:48 < kanzure> still need to figure out how to go about memorizing more vim commands http://jmcpherson.org/editing.html
09:53 < ybit> kanzure: who's the led photolith person?
09:53 < ybit> ..in austin
09:58 < kanzure> there isn't one
09:59 < kanzure> are you sure it requires a clean room?
09:59 < kanzure> the polymer should polymerize in blue light in spite of dust in the environment
10:01 < kanzure> though it's probably a good idea to set up a clean room anyway since bio protocols tend to rely on that. 
10:01 < kanzure> sort of a "while you're at it" thing
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10:16 < ybit> i took a quick glance at the paper yesterday, it estimated that the cost of the setup was a little under$6k
10:17 < kanzure> the uv photolithography paper?
10:18 < kanzure> there are some ways that fenn and I were talking about reducing the costs of that setup
10:18 < kanzure> it's somewhere in the logs in here
10:24 < kanzure> ybit: I sent you an email with a list of projects and their estimated costs. please confirm, or something.
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10:27 < ybit> kanzure: got it
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10:57 < ybit> http://www.ibecbarcelona.eu/index.php?option=com_recerca&Itemid=1005&task=linia&ansubdepartments_id=17&dept_id=5
10:57 < ybit> i was wrong about spain, there is a neuroeng program there, in barcelona
10:57 < ybit> however, it's all in-vitro :\
10:58 < kanzure> that's better than "all in silico"
10:58 < kanzure> is that DeMarse?
10:58 < ybit> and supposedly they developed a "UV laser scanning direct-lithography system" but i've yet to see schematics
10:59 < kanzure> er, wait, DeMarse is at gatech.edu
10:59 < kanzure> nevermind
10:59 < ybit> he's in florida now
10:59 < ybit> i think ucf
11:00 < ybit> he's at ufl
11:00 < ybit> http://www.bme.ufl.edu/contact/directory/detail_person.php?PEOPLE_id=2
11:19 < fenn> "If you are serious, you could take out your biggest dust problem. Your carpet."
11:20 < fenn> from "how to make a clean room"
11:21 < ybit> or you could place some type of plastic over it
11:21 < ybit> save some $
11:21 < kanzure> why do you have carpet in the first place
11:22 < ybit> true that
11:23 < ybit> it's difficult to find an apartment that doesn't have carpet in a small city like florence
11:23 < kanzure> craigslist should have a basement being listed somewhere 
11:23 < kanzure> texas is the only place in the world that doesn't do basements apparently, or something
11:24 < fenn> because then you could stay cool without needing air conditioning
11:24 < fenn> = bad for economy
11:26 < kanzure> there are people going around here in austin with cam corders fitted with infrared filters claiming that they do an "energy assessment" of your place of dwelling and that you need to hire them before you sell your house :p
11:27 < kanzure> set([frozenset([1,2]), frozenset([1,2]), frozenset([3,4])])
11:27 < kanzure> yay I like this
11:27 < fenn> is there some methodology for testing your script's output besides "does it load?"
11:28 < kanzure> which script
11:28 < fenn> i'm trying to add dimensions and graphsynth complains about something, somewhere in the file
11:28 < kanzure> which file?
11:28 < kanzure> how about you just paste the command line stuff instead :p
11:28 < fenn> "bad input string format" and i think it means character 8473 but there's nothing special there
11:28 < fenn> it's graphsynth, there's no command line
11:29 < kanzure> which file are you loading into graphsynth?
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11:29 < fenn> squirtgun.dim.gs2.gxml
11:29 < kanzure> and how did you generate it
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11:29 < fenn> load into graphsynth, save, run gxml-add-dimensions.pl
11:30 < kanzure> ok, so you loaded it into GS 2.0, then ran gxml-add-dimensions.pl, and now are trying to load it back into GS 2.0 ?
11:30 < fenn> yep
11:30 < kanzure> does squirtgun.dim.gs2.gxml have any <opt> bullshit at the top?
11:31 < fenn> yes
11:31 < kanzure> that's non-good
11:31 < fenn> i changed it to Page but it didnt change the error message
11:31 < kanzure> but why would you think that has something to do with character 8473 in the file?
11:31 < kanzure> hm
11:31 < kanzure> ok, is the file somewhere I can fetch it?
11:31 < fenn> yes
11:31 < kanzure> a link would be more helpful
11:31 < fenn> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/squirtgun.dim.gs2.gxml
11:32 < kanzure> I still see opt in there
11:32 < kanzure> did you change it back afterwards?
11:32 < fenn> wah
11:32 < fenn> i did the editing on windows
11:32 < fenn> actually it starts out complaining about the <double></double>
11:33 < fenn> so i did search/replace to <double>0</double>
11:33 < kanzure> that's an ok error 
11:33 < kanzure> yeah
11:33 < fenn> then it complained about something else, which i cant figure out
11:33 < kanzure> where did I put the example gs 2.0 gxml files
11:33 < kanzure> the only thing that I can come up with is that maybe it's not enough to replace "opt" with "Page" and there's some more elements that we're forgetting
11:34 < fenn> the weird thing is the character number doesnt change even if i add stuff to the file
11:34 < kanzure> example: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/gs2/GraphSynth2/input/waterLifter.gxml
11:34 < kanzure> is this some sort of weird unicode encoding issue or something?
11:35 < ybit> kanzure, did anyone ever respond to your "Personal science libraries?" on mea-users?
11:35 < fenn> that doesnt have any xaml stuff
11:35 < fenn> or local variables
11:35 < kanzure> ybit: only one guy, but he didn't do anything.
11:35 < fenn> and it uses shapekey
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11:35 < fenn> so that's a terrible example 2.0 file
11:35 < kanzure> that's a 1.9 apparently
11:35 < kanzure> arr
11:36 < kanzure> ok maybe better: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/gs2/GraphSynth2/input/swirlSeed.gxml
11:36 < kanzure> no local variables however, but that shouldn't be a problem
11:36 < kanzure> oh what version of gs 2.0 are you using anyway? where did you get the copy from?
11:37 < fenn> there is an exeutable on newton and also source/visual stuffio
11:37 < fenn> i stepped through the loading process with the debugger even
11:37 < fenn> didnt seem to do anything useful
11:38 < kanzure> ok, so I guess it's time for twitchy debugging
11:38 < kanzure> um
11:38 < kanzure> try a regexp to remove <localVariables> to </localVariables> and replace with <localVariables /> to see if the non-localVariables version works
11:39 < fenn> what does that mean?
11:39 < kanzure> try a regexp to remove <localVariables> to </localVariables> and replace with <localVariables /> to see if the non-localVariables version works
11:39 < kanzure> this problem did not happen with tanin, daniel or matt for that matter
11:39  * fenn wonders if there's a decent code editor on windows
11:39 < kanzure> visual studio is the only one that seems to have a search-and-replace mechanism, but it doesn't handle regular expressions
11:41 < kanzure> hm
11:41 < kanzure> in the example gs 2.0 gxml file, there's no </Canvas>
11:41 < kanzure> I think it would be safe to get rid of <Canvas> to </Canvas> in your squirtgun.dim.gs2.gxml file
11:41 < kanzure> and try that too..
11:43 < kanzure> weird. in squirtgun.gs2.gxml, the </Canvas> does not appear on its own line. (not that this matters)
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11:48 < fenn> ok nevermind, it loads on darwin after s/<double></<double>0</
11:48 < kanzure> I thought you did that already
11:48 < fenn> i was on newton
11:48 < fenn> so newton is just broke
11:48 < kanzure> so it was a "crappy version of gs2.0 because of a lack of version control"
11:48 < fenn> probably something like that, yes
11:49 < kanzure> wowee. glad we're being paid for this..
11:50 < kanzure> oh wait.
12:01 < kanzure> fenn: what's the title on the GS 2.0 main window?
12:01  * kanzure is editing the source to add a version number to the title bar
12:02 < kanzure> oh, or a way to add the svn revision number upon checkout
12:03 < kanzure> http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html#version-value-in-source
12:03 < kanzure> yay
12:07 < kanzure> fenn: can you ask tanin if he has installed TortoiseSVN yet and if he can't figure it out to give me a call today? since he's editing the source, he should be committing his changes to a new directory under svn or something
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12:31 < fenn> apparently (according to tanin) the current SVn won't work, so he's using some older version
12:31 < fenn> i still havent figured out wtf is going on
12:37 < kanzure> the current checkout from svn?
12:37 < kanzure> er, I mean to ask: is tanin claiming that the latest checkout from svn is not working?
12:52 < fenn> summary: running latest svn on newton and darwin; open the gxml-add-dimensions output (suitably edited) only works on newton
12:52 < fenn> er, only works on darwin
12:52 < fenn> but, if i save the opened file and open that on newton, it works
12:52 < kanzure> wtfage
12:52 < kanzure> newton is XP and darwin is what?
12:52 < fenn> so i'm doing a diff new
12:53 < fenn> darwin is windows 7
12:53 < kanzure> oh wise diff, what say ye?
12:54 < fenn> one moment
12:55 < kanzure> interesting how the lab is simultaneously capable of violating all known laws of computing. like those of cross-platform compatabilism.
12:57 < fenn> uh. speaking of violating laws of computing
12:57 < fenn> the diff was null
12:57 < fenn> so i must have messed up somewhere
12:58 < kanzure> what did you diff?
12:58 < fenn> diff squirtgun.dim.gs2.gxml squirtgun.dim.gs2.loaded.gxml
12:58 < kanzure> diff (1) gxml-add-dimensions' output and (2) newton's saved version of #1.
12:58 < kanzure> hm
12:59 < fenn> yep
12:59 < kanzure> is diff going to pick up something minor that windows would complain about?
12:59 < fenn> i thought i moved some nodes around though so i should have gotten that at least
12:59 < kanzure> is there a -strict or something? :/
13:00 < kanzure> wonder if the upload process fixes the problem or something. sometimes FTP works in ASCII or binary mode, which screws with files.
13:00 < fenn> right
13:00 < kanzure> ok, so upload the file to the box that you do your diff on, then copy the file to /var/www/something/ and then go get that on newton :p
13:00 < kanzure> um, wait
13:01 < kanzure> you probably shouldn't.
13:01 < kanzure> I am a very puzzled guy right now.
13:02 < fenn> i could make a flowchart :)
13:02 < kanzure> ooh
13:02 < kanzure> so, if you open and save it on darwin first, are you loading it on newton with the latest svn version? or the old version
13:02 < kanzure> did you try loading the gxml-add-dimensions output on newton's old version *and* svn up'd version?
13:03 < fenn> both running svn
13:03 < kanzure> how do you know this isn't an internet explorer or firefox caching error on newton's part
13:03 < fenn> gxml-add-dimensions was from newton, i dont know which version i ran
13:04 < kanzure> that sentence made no sense
13:04 < kanzure> please sentence the form in a question of the answer
13:04 < fenn> gxml-add-dimensions only works on 2.0 files so i had to run it through graphsynth to get 2.0
13:04 < kanzure> yes
13:04 < fenn> i did that on newton yesterday
13:05 < kanzure> how are you checking that the pre-darwinized gxml file does not work on newton?
13:05 < kanzure> is it over http that you download the gxml file on newton?
13:05 < fenn> yes, from lab/fenn/
13:06 < kanzure> that might be it
13:06 < kanzure> I had this weird caching problem with daniel once
13:06 < kanzure> he would refresh the page and get the same damn XML file even though I knew I had updated it to something different
13:06 < fenn> but so what, i hadnt updated it anyway
13:06 < fenn> i.e. i did the editing in windows to make it load
13:06 < fenn> (but iwt wouldnt load)
13:07 < kanzure> ok, so you did the editing on windows to make it load (but it didn't in both svn up'd and previous crap version)
13:07 < kanzure> so you transferred it then over to darwin?
13:07 < fenn> yes, but i downloaded the same file to darwin from lab/fenn/
13:08 < fenn> then edited it again, then loaded it
13:08 < kanzure> wah
13:08 < fenn> meanwhile, back on unix, i edit it yet again
13:09 < fenn> then i transfer the saved file to newton, try to load it, and it loads
13:09 < fenn> (from darwin)
13:09 < kanzure> on unix, you edit [what] again?
13:09 < fenn> on unix i edit lab/fenn
13:09 < fenn> lab/fenn/squirtgun.dim.gs2.gxml
13:09 < kanzure> ok, so you did the editing in your favorite editor instead of on windows that time around
13:09 < fenn> and upload from newton to dokuwiki
13:10 < fenn> then download to unix as .loaded.gxml
13:10 < kanzure> er, what? why upload from newton?
13:10 < kanzure> ok
13:10 < fenn> then diff, and the diff is null
13:10 < kanzure> why not .loaded.gxml saved from darwin?
13:10 < fenn> hm. my story doesnt make sense does it
13:10 < fenn> how did i transfer from darwin to newton?
13:11 < kanzure> if you edited it on linux, from the gxml-add-dimensions.pl output, did you ever then go load *that* to the svn up'd version on newton?
13:11 < fenn> no
13:12 < kanzure> why did you ever edit it on minsky (or davinci I guess) then? :p
13:12 < fenn> because i was sick of doing the same edit over and over
13:12 < kanzure> ok
13:12 < kanzure> and after doing that
13:12 < kanzure> what boxes have successfully loaded that edit into gs 2.0?
13:12 < fenn> none
13:13 < kanzure> do they all error?
13:13 < fenn> never tried to load it
13:13 < kanzure> this would be the one thing that you would want to know I thought
13:13 < kanzure> because it shouldn't only work if it goes through darwin first ..
13:14 < kanzure> it should work if it goes through newton too since it's the same damn software
13:14 < kanzure> the same input files: your edited version on lab/fenn/ that you edited by hand on minsky
13:14 < fenn> yep
13:14 < kanzure> the same svn up'd revision number on darwin and newton
13:14 < kanzure> and when you get that unix edited file on newton, gs 2.0 should be able to open it up
13:14 < fenn> one would think so
13:15 < kanzure> but you just told me you never tried to load it
13:15 < kanzure> so how would you know
13:21 < kanzure> diff (1) gxml-add-dimensions' output and (2) your edit of that output. 
13:21 < kanzure> diff (1) gxml-add-dimensions output and (2) darwin's saved version of #1.
13:21 < kanzure> diff (1) your-edited-version and (2) darwin's saved version of #1
13:22 < kanzure> anyway, most important is whether or not newton's svn up'd version is capable of successfully loading your unix hand-edited version of the gxml-add-dimensions output.
13:23 < fenn> ok, file from minsky loads on newton
13:24 < kanzure> the universe is well again.
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13:28 < fenn> diff -w says the only difference was a single <double></double> on line 1516 (33509 chars into the file)
13:29 < kanzure> fenn: do you have access to http://journals.lww.com/appliedimmunohist/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2009&issue=03000&article=00013&type=abstract from where you're sitting?
13:30 < kanzure> nevermind, I'll figure it out
13:30 < fenn> no
13:30 < fenn> 'view full text' has no link
13:31 < kanzure> same here.
13:32 < kanzure> fenn: do you understand Jason Kelly's latest post to diybio?
13:33 < kanzure> does he know something I don't?
13:33 < kanzure> it sounds like he's being sarcastic
13:33 < kanzure> revision control for documents is a good idea imho
13:42 < fenn> i agree it dwould be a good idea and he sounds sarcastic
13:43 < kanzure> wonder what they are doing at gingko bioworks if they don't put their writings under revision control ..
13:43 < kanzure> makes me wonder about startups like that heh
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13:47 < fenn> for the fiftieth time, you have to run git update-server-info when you publish git on a http server
13:47 < kanzure> which one was it this time?
13:48 < fenn> adl/var/www/skdb
13:48 < kanzure> fuck
13:48 < kanzure> ok, done
13:49 < fenn> i think i need to read about access control lists
13:49 < fenn> what user does git run as when you push to it?
13:50 < kanzure> when I push to it, I'm 'bryan'
13:50 < fenn> hum
13:51 < fenn> -rw-r--r-- 1 bryan bryan 193 2009-06-19 13:47 .git/info/refs
13:51 < fenn> $ git update-server-info
13:51 < fenn> $ ls -l .git/info/refs 
13:51 < fenn> -rw-r--r-- 1 fenn fenn 193 2009-06-19 13:49 .git/info/refs
13:51 < fenn> how come it let me do that?
13:52 < fenn> drwxrwxr-x 2 bryan lab 4096 2009-06-19 13:49 .git/info/
13:52 < fenn> is it because .git/info is g+wx?
13:52 < kanzure> huh
13:52 < kanzure> that would be weird
13:52 < kanzure> does the permissions on the parent dir determine sub permissions?
13:52 < kanzure> er, whether or not to follow subpermissions?
13:52 < fenn> this is sort of the same problem i was having before, but in reverse
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14:00 < fenn> yo genehacker
14:00 < genehacker> what?
14:00 < fenn> sata's going to kick you out since you never show up
14:00 < genehacker> he is?
14:01 < genehacker> what's going on?
14:01 < fenn> dont ask me, i just work here
14:01 < genehacker> I'll go check on the filter after 5
14:02 < kanzure> why did you message me on jabber
14:05 < genehacker> well I didn't know that you were here
14:05 < genehacker> are you with sata?
14:05 < kanzure> no, I'm on mars
14:05 < kanzure> (er, at home)
14:06 < genehacker> is sata going to kick me out?
14:08 < kanzure> well you were never really in
14:08 < kanzure> so no
14:08 < genehacker> huh?
14:08 < kanzure> he said you don't come in
14:08 < genehacker> that's all he said?
14:08 < genehacker> when?
14:08 < kanzure> wednesday?
14:09 < genehacker> do we have lab meetings on wednesday?
14:10 < kanzure> no
14:10 < fenn> also he said you run around like a chicken with your head cut off
14:10 < genehacker> really?
14:10 < fenn> not in so many words
14:11 < genehacker> ok then
14:13 < fenn> the fast electrophoresis video is neat
14:13 < kanzure> is there a page that explains why people should use revision control?
14:13 < kanzure> google isn't giving me anything
14:13 < fenn> software carpentry
14:14 < fenn> http://swc.scipy.org/lec/version.html
14:14 < kanzure> thank you
14:14 < fenn> hm that's not the page i was thinking of
14:18 < kanzure> I find it funny that people on an open source project are asking "why do we want to use revision control! bah!"
14:18 < kanzure> how sad is that
14:18 < kanzure> as if open source projects happen in other ways?
14:19 < fenn> up til a couple years ago almost all open source software was written by wise old unix hackers (well maybe not old)
14:19 < fenn> but things are changing
14:19 < kanzure> how is it done now?
14:19 < kanzure> randomly throwing bullshit at a wall until it assembles into compiled code?
14:19 < fenn> 'gimme teh codezz'
14:19 < kanzure> heh
14:20 < fenn> i mean you cant expect people to know something they dont know
14:20 < kanzure> that's fine
14:20 < kanzure> but they shouldn't stop me from getting real work done
14:20 < fenn> btw we should add .svnignore for all the bin/ and .dll files
14:20 < kanzure> just because they're idiots.
14:20 < kanzure> fenn: that's fine, go ahead
14:21 < fenn> as it is i think svn tries to merge then (yeesh)
14:26 < fenn> huh there is no such thing as a .svnignore file?
14:28 < fenn> ugh this is terrible
14:28 < fenn> for name in $dir_names ; do cd $name; svn propset svn:ignore -F
14:40 < fenn> heh " A DIYbio persons best RCS at this point is a -80 C  freezer"
14:41 < kanzure> my reply to that was something about how biohackers might need to be more than just biologists
14:41 < kanzure> maybe it's possible that successful biohackers will need to be even more hackful than the original hackers
14:42 < fenn> yeah, whatever that means
14:42 < kanzure> er, sarcasm?
14:42 < fenn> no i just dont know what it's supposed to mean
14:43 < kanzure> er. I just mean to say that biohackers shouldn't be conceptually limited to just being biologists that aren't hackers
15:43 < digitaltao_> LIFE IS STUDYYYYYYYYYYY
15:43 < digitaltao_> study study study study study
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15:46 < kanzure> haha
15:46 < kanzure> this is so weird
15:46 < kanzure> "do it yourself biology" sounds like the "not I, said the little rooster" story
15:48 < fenn> The little white rooster told the animals if they would join with him and his group of other white roosters and white pullets, they could kill the nasty red rooster to make all farms safer, take over the corn field and allow the red rooster's flock to run the corn field all by themselves as they had always wished.
15:49 < fenn> heh
15:49 < fenn> Not I said the larger group of animals called the United  Animals
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16:19 < ybit> anyone have "Fundamentals of microfabrication" and are willing to share?
16:20 < kanzure> I had a fundamentals of MEMS book or something because of this waterdroplet space frame machine gun thingy, but I don't think that's the same book
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17:33 < kanzure> Windows/AboutGraphSynth.xaml
17:34 < kanzure> davinci:~/lab/gs2/svnstuff/adl/GraphSynthSourceFiles/GraphSynth/Windows/AboutGraphSynth.xaml
17:34 < kanzure> $ svn propset svn:keywords "Date Author" weather.txt
17:35 < kanzure> ^ the above was from http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn.advanced.props.special.keywords.html
17:51 < kanzure> aha: http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn.ref.svnversion.re.html
18:02 < kanzure> wow it's not on here either
18:02 < kanzure> http://subversion.tigris.org/tools_contrib.html#dev
18:02 < kanzure> there is no script to embed the global revision number into a particular file? wtf
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19:18 < kanzure> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/gitit
19:18 < kanzure> ybit: where'd you come across this?
19:20 < kanzure> http://code.google.com/p/gitit/
19:29 < ybit> i had mentioned it in here about a month ago
19:29 < ybit> [Sat May 23 2009] [22:44:02] <ybit>     http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/gitit
19:29 < ybit> [Sat May 23 2009] [22:48:34] <fenn>     http://gitit.johnmacfarlane.net/ gitit demo
19:29 < ybit> [Sat May 23 2009] [22:49:09] <ybit>     haskell.org uses gitit plus some custom configurations
19:36 < ybit> i like johnathon's latest microfluidics post, too bad i don't have a laser printer
19:36 < kanzure> next time be sure to make sure I look at the link
19:37 < ybit> heh, sorry, i post randomly and enjoy talking to whoever can respond atm
19:37 < ybit> but i'll be sure to highlight you on for certain things i know you might be interested in
19:38 < ybit> for now on*
19:38  * ybit is sleepy
19:39 < kanzure> rawr
19:39 < kanzure> ybit: jonathan brought his creation by the other day.
19:40 < ybit> you told me that, what were your thoughts?
19:40 < ybit> i don't understand how these people on diybio don't get it
19:40 < ybit> it's plain as day to me what you're saying
19:41 < kanzure> well, I would like it if you could post a vote of confidence sometime ..
19:41 < kanzure> or something. because I don't think the other people realize that I actually do, in fact, make sense
19:42 < kanzure> ybit: it was nice to see him bring something by. but I would have preferred to go to his workbench.
19:43 < kanzure> my favorite message on diybio today was the one where mac said that diybio isn't an organization
19:43 < kanzure> and diybio.org says it is
19:43 < ybit> suppose i could, i just have second thoughts about even dealing with some people.
19:44 < ybit> diybio.org[ganization]
19:44 < kanzure> [ganization]? what?
19:44 < kanzure> heh
19:44 < kanzure> well I have heybryan.org, but it's not an organization, it's just a domain name
19:44 < ybit> heh, .org is meant for organizations and whatnot
19:45 < kanzure> that's true
19:45 < ybit> for reference: "The org TLD was originally intented for non-profit organizations, or organizations of a non-commercial character."
19:45 < kanzure> right
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19:49 < ybit> Microcontroller-based full control of ultrasonic motor with frequency and voltage adjusting
19:50 < ybit> http://filebin.ca/jrugjk/Microcontroller-basedfullcontrolofultrasonicmotorwithfrequencyandvoltageadjusting.pdf
19:51 < kanzure> ybit: would you like ssh access to a server for uploading papers?
19:51 < ybit> what about books?
19:51 < ybit> i have quite a few of those as well
19:52 < ybit> w/ papers in them
19:52 < ybit> e.g.: Toward Replacement Parts for the Brain
19:52 < kanzure> sure.
19:52 < ybit> alright
19:53 < kanzure> password?
19:53 < ybit> simple enough
19:57 < ybit> i will start uploading when i restore my normal system functionality
19:57 < ybit> i'd rather not ssh as root
20:03 < ybit> brilliant DIY tale :P
20:04 < ybit> now that made me laugh
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20:15 < fenn> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=852
20:15 < fenn> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=849
20:21 < kanzure> http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard
20:26 < kanzure> com = combinations((1,2,3,4,5),3) print "frozenset com: ", list(com) print "list com: ", list(com)
20:27 < kanzure> frozenset com:  [(1, 2, 3), (1, 2, 4), (1, 2, 5), (1, 3, 4), (1, 3, 5), (1, 4, 5), (2, 3, 4), (2, 3, 5), (2, 4, 5), (3, 4, 5)]
20:27 < kanzure> list com:  []
20:27  * ybit would like a copy of "Plasma etching and reactive ion etching"
20:27 < kanzure> where is it?
20:29 < kanzure> a,  [(1, 2, 3), (1, 2, 4), (1, 2, 5), (1, 3, 4), (1, 3, 5), (1, 4, 5), (2, 3, 4), (2, 3, 5), (2, 4, 5), (3, 4, 5)]
20:29 < kanzure> b,  []
20:29 < kanzure> frozenset com:  []
20:29 < kanzure> list com:  []
20:30 < kanzure> TypeError: object.__new__(generator) is not safe, use generator.__new__()
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20:31 < kanzure> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0255/
20:31 < kanzure> pep about generators
20:34 < kanzure> http://www.wellho.net/mouth/561_Python-s-Generator-functions.html
20:36 < kanzure> apparently "yield" is not a synonym for "return"
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20:43 < ybit> spin coating looks relatively simple
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20:43 < ybit> and voila, an mea
20:43 < kanzure> er, what?
20:44 < ybit> yeah, not really
20:44 < ybit> photolith > etching (rie) > deposition (spin coating)
20:47  * ybit wonders what the regulations are for operating on rats and eventually monkeys in the house :)
20:47 < kanzure> I've always tried to avoid spin coating
20:47 < ybit> getting way ahead of myself
20:47 < kanzure> why?
20:47 < kanzure> I mean, how is that ahead of yourself?
20:48 < ybit> because i don't even have the equipment just yet
20:48 < kanzure> well you might not even have to get spin coating equipment
20:48 < kanzure> so you're not getting ahead of yourself :)
20:48 < kanzure> you're just.. going around or something
20:48 < ybit> something like that :P
20:49 < kanzure> so what's involved in spin coating?
20:49 < ybit> so you avoid spin coating?
20:49 < kanzure> like I said, I've been avoiding it all my life
20:49 < kanzure> maybe you know what it is
20:49 < kanzure> you don't just spin something and make an even layer of something on it, eh?
20:49 < ybit> only what wikipedia tells me
20:49 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_coating
20:50 < ybit> right, that's essentially it
20:50 < kanzure> does a CDROM drive count as a spin coater?
20:51 < ybit> hmm
20:51 < ybit> "Photoresist is typically spun at 20 to 80 Hz for 30 to 60 seconds."
20:52 < kanzure> wait, is that all?
20:52 < kanzure> not kHz or GHz or anything ridiculous?
20:52 < ybit> uring the first stage, the plate is spun at a low to moderate speed 500-1000 rpm for 5-10 seconds to evenly spread the solution. The thickness of the coating is then determined and controlled during the second stage by spinning the coating at a higher speed, between 1500-3000 rpm for anywhere between a few seconds and a minute. These conditions will typically produce high quality coatings of thickness between 2 and 10 micrometres.
20:52 < ybit> During*
20:53 < kanzure> don't know if I have a 3k rpm centrifuge laying around
20:53 < kanzure> how do I build one, again?
20:53 < kanzure> without spending a fortune on a motor
20:54 < ybit> that i've yet to look for
20:55 < kanzure> 19th-century hand-operated centrifuge
20:55 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:19thCentrifuge.JPG
20:57 < kanzure> fenn claims 26,000 rpm is capable with a CDROM drive. or up to 72x so 72*500rpm.
20:58 < fenn> assuming it's perfectly balanced of course
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20:59 < kanzure> inventor: Benjamin Robins
20:59 < nsh> why aren't there autobalancing centrifuges?
20:59 < nsh> seems like it wouldn't be difficult mechanically
21:00 < kanzure> Early cream test centrifuges
21:00 < kanzure> http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/babcock/babcock.htm
21:01 < ybit> definitely will have to build your own spin coater, the cheapest i'm finding is about $1k USD
21:02 < fenn> does a centrifuge create a force or an acceleration?
21:02 < kanzure> 1881 centrifuge http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/babcock/bab3.htm
21:03 < kanzure> "hand cranked wood pulleys" - wooden centrifuge - http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/babcock/bab16.htm
21:04 < kanzure> wooden centrifuge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQK5cYin2Q
21:07 < ybit> http://www.google.com/patents/download/Method_for_low_pressure_spin_coating_and.pdf?id=fiAlAAAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U1HoocbOzq_FHFEDuXpsDhGoxGnxA
21:07 < ybit> "Method for low pressure spin coating and low pressure spin"
21:08 < ybit> bah
21:08 < ybit> this one is better
21:08 < ybit> http://www.google.com/patents/download/Thin_particulate_film_spin_coater.pdf?id=CzcwAAAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U2zzkKnxB4OToApZJznMyLitrQ9eg
21:09 < ybit> "Thin particulate film spin coater"
21:14 < ybit> "Sping Coater"
21:15 < ybit> http://www.google.com/patents?id=zjABAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#PPA6,M1
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21:36 < ybit> http://www.crimescene.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=70&currency=USD :: $27 365-395nm LEDs
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21:41  * ybit doesn't have access to "A toner-mediated lithographic technology for rapid prototyping of glass microchannels"
21:44 < ybit> and i would really like to see what's in "Low-Cost MEMS Technologies"
21:49 < ybit> http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-High-Speed-Book-Scanner-from-Trash-and-Cheap-C/ :: diy book scanner
21:50 < ybit> think i have my first project for the lab 
21:52 < ybit> http://diybookscanner.org/
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22:10 < ybit> fenn, my older logs aren't available right now, but i remember you linking me to a diy design for an ebook reader
22:11 < ybit> i recall you linking to the location multiple times
22:11 < ybit> mind linking again?
22:12 < ybit> suppose i could just use a netbook
22:12 < fenn> ybit: http://www.positron.org/projects/
22:12 < ybit> or my neorunner
22:12 < kanzure> ybit: I should have "A toner-mediated lithographic technology for rapid prototyping of glass microchannels" in the microfluidics dir
22:12 < fenn> you can't actually get the e-ink component, unfortunately
22:13 < fenn> though apparently a number of corporations manufacture the stuff now
22:13 < ybit> that's the link, ty
22:16 < ybit> kanzure: i don't see it just yet but there are a lot more interesting papers in here than i had thought, very nice repo
22:16 < kanzure> which dir are you looking at?
22:18 < ybit> i think my dir structure is different from yours
22:18 < ybit> currently in /microfluidics/microfluidics
22:18 < kanzure> er that doesn't look friendly
22:18 < ybit> it's kind of a misc folder
22:19 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/microfluidics/
22:22 < ybit> i don't think you have it
22:23 < kanzure> http://sata.serveftp.org/~bryan/papers/microfluidics/
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22:25 < ybit> not there either
22:30 < ybit> http://www.ebookee.com.cn/Comprehensive-Microsystems-Three-Volume-Set-Volume-1-3_235984.html
22:34 < ybit> http://www.rsc.org/publishing/journals/LC/article.asp?doi=b805137b :: Microfluidic assembly blocks
22:34 < ybit> "An assembly approach for microdevice construction using prefabricated microfluidic components is presented. Although microfluidic systems are convenient platforms for biological assays, their use in the life sciences is still limited mainly due to the high-level fabrication expertise required for construction. This approach involves prefabrication of individual microfluidic assembly blocks (MABs) in PDMS that can be readily assembled to form microflui
22:39 < fenn> to form microflui...
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22:56 < ybit> heh, guess it's time for me to call it a night after linking to crimescene.com earlier o.O
22:56 < ybit> http://www.google.com/products?q=UV-LED&oe=utf-8&hl=en&scoring=p
22:56 < ybit> duh
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23:05 < ybit> etching using leds, hmm
23:10 < ybit> nope, dillusioned, sleep-deprived reading
23:11 < ybit> helium etching on leds :)
23:11 < ybit> helium plasma*
23:19 < ybit> yup and i'm spent
23:20  * ybit makes it a point to read Intro to Microfabrication tomorrow
23:20 < kanzure> stop quoting Austin Powers
23:20 < kanzure> :p
23:20 < ybit> haha
23:21 < kanzure> http://www.trumpf-machines.com/en/products/laser-processing/2d-laser-cutting/trulaser-2025-2030.html
23:22 < kanzure> http://www.trumpf-machines.com/en/products/laser-processing/automation.html
23:22 < kanzure> "liftmaster linear"
23:23 < kanzure> "liftmaster horizontal"
23:24 < kanzure> what's this about "3D mechanics" that campbell was talking about? I just get lots of spam when searching google for this sort of thing
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