--- Day changed Thu Jul 16 2009
00:32 * ybit is appreciative of samples from companies
00:33 < ybit> is it bad to tweet to one's self on irc for a couple of hours?..
00:35 < ybit> sylgard 184
00:36 < ybit> $34.88/250ml
00:36 < ybit> http://css.superioressex.com/scripts/wscssprd.wsc/op/op_indexB2C.html
00:36 < ybit> ^where i found the price
00:37 < ybit> http://www.dowcorning.com gives free samples
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01:02 < ybit> so i need some type of photolith setup
01:02 < ybit> the led setup first comes to mind
01:03 < ybit> and then there's the projector/microscope thingie that genehacker had been talking about
01:04 < ybit> and to do photolith, i probably need a cleanroom, this room i'm in will do. has ac and heat, a window, all that it's lacking is an air purifier, and some other slight modifications, e.g. the door
01:07 < ybit> 6k is rather expensive
01:08 < ybit> 2k-4k i can afford
01:08 < ybit> usd
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01:20 < ybit> 16:52 < genehacker> microscope's displaying image
01:20 < ybit> 16:54 < genehacker> and it's not fuzzy
01:21 < ybit> and this your mircroscope photolith device, genehacker?
01:21 < ybit> s/and/is
01:23 < ybit> heybryan.org is down
01:23 < ybit> was looking for papers/protein-purification/notes.txt
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04:16 < splicer> i saw people are building microscopes from webcams
04:45 < drazak> ping anyone that can download papers from pubmed for me
04:45 < drazak> kanzure:
04:45 < drazak> f
04:45 < drazak> fenn:
04:46 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19556500?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:47 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19458646?ordinalpos=6&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:47 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19421585?ordinalpos=12&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:48 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19345319?ordinalpos=21&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:51 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19273094?ordinalpos=50&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:52 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19245527?ordinalpos=55&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:55 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19197982?ordinalpos=71&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:56 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19188756?ordinalpos=81&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:56 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19188753?ordinalpos=82&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:57 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19144668?ordinalpos=96&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:57 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19131912?ordinalpos=103&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:58 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19105617?ordinalpos=120&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
04:59 < drazak> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19093804?ordinalpos=133&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
05:00 < drazak> kanzure, fenn, ybit: could one of you grab those and email them to be at ben.gadoua@gmail.com
06:56 < kanzure> ybit: you can do photolithography with a UV lamp, SU8, and a mask
06:56 < fenn> are there any studies on the long term health effects of listening to techno 24/7?
07:00 < kanzure> http://www.springerlink.com.ezproxy.lib.utexas.edu/content/u948767115kn4x60/
07:00 < kanzure> The long-term effects of auditory training on children with autism
07:34 < ybit> drazak: i can, but don't have time right now, am leaving for work
07:49 < kanzure> drazak: it would have been nice if you would have just given us a text file
08:03 < Utopiah> checked http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Content_Curators but found nothing related to free electronic blueprint repository, recommendations?
09:38 < kanzure> what about free electronic blueprint repository?
09:38 < kanzure> there isn't one out there yet
09:38 < kanzure> although there is liquidwares or something
09:38 < kanzure> but anyway, it sucks, and I wouldn't rely on it
09:39 < kanzure> fenn: where can I find catalogs for DC motors?
09:40 < fenn> DC motors arent used very often in industry
09:40 < fenn> maxonmotorusa.com?
09:40 < fenn> depends how much you want to spend, i guess
09:40 < fenn> "Chana de Wolf Chana de Wolf Research for the Future and Beyond"
09:41 < kanzure> she's on acceleratingfuture.com and lifeboat?
09:41 < kanzure> srsly wtf
09:43 * fenn glances accusingly at ybit
09:45 < genehacker> dc motors?
09:45 < genehacker> techno 24/7? really?
09:48 < fenn> genehacker: that was mostly me being bitchy about kanzure not liking my african music
09:53 < kanzure> so, I could be improving djangit and writing some more unit tests (there are a few particular errors I should really work through)
09:53 < kanzure> or I could be installing pythonOCC
09:53 < kanzure> or throwing stones at HeeksPython
09:53 < genehacker> heh try some some music from einhander
09:53 < genehacker> it's techno but not quite
09:58 < genehacker> kanzure I believe so
09:58 < genehacker> on the UV light thing
10:12 < kanzure> what?
10:16 < kanzure> does anyone remember the name of the paper where the researchers used a CD to pattern sharpie ink
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10:27 < kanzure> Patterning Design in Color at the Submicron Scale - Arun Chattopadhyay - stamps via CDs http://tinyurl.com/ddv4wd
10:27 < kanzure> aha
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10:39 < kanzure> or I could be writing some new code for what I've been thinking of calling 'pymates'
10:39 < kanzure> (until it's worthy of importing into skdb)
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10:41 < genehacker> ???
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11:10 < fenn> http://www.opencascade.org/org/community/projects/?d_id=10
11:11 < kanzure> http://projects.opencascade.org/projects/assembly.html
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11:22 < kanzure> http://www.opencascade.org/org/doc/
11:22 < kanzure> did they leave off a link on this pag
11:22 < kanzure> *page?
11:27 < fenn> yes
11:28 < fenn> (again) how to install pythonOCC on ubuntu: http://pastebin.ca/1497209
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11:36 < drazak> kanzure: sorry
11:36 < drazak> kanzure: it was late
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11:44 * fenn does the tutorial http://www.opencascade.org/org/gettingstarted/appli/
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11:56 < fenn> i need to start making a list of OCC acronyms and what they stand for
11:56 < kanzure> please do
11:56 < kanzure> can you put it on http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/occ ?
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12:09 < fenn> this might be helpful to get an overview of OCC (unfortunately the snippets are useless since you cant download pythonizer): http://pythonizer.org/pythoncascade/gallery.html
12:10 < fenn> some of them certainly look familiar http://pythonizer.org/pythoncascade/gallery/geo15.htm
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12:10 < fenn> i guess jelle just copied all of it and pythonOCC-ified them
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12:22 * fenn wonders if `sudo chgrp lab ./ -R` was a good idea
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12:23 < fenn> but seriously what's up with all the "root root" files
12:23 < drazak> kanzure: drazak.net/~drazak/pubmedlist
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12:35 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/
12:35 < kanzure> fenn: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/OpenCASCADE_src.tgz
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12:40 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/pdf/
12:40 < kanzure> there we go
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12:42 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/
12:42 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/Overview/
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12:44 < drazak> kanzure: it'd be great if I could get those papers some time before sunday
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12:48 < fenn> ok i'll stop bitching.. i should've read this i guess http://www.opencascade.com/customers/successmain/
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12:52 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/pdf/ocaf.pdf
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13:29 < fenn> http://pastebin.ca/1497330
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14:09 < kanzure> http://github.com/abiggerhammer/djangit/blob/00479184fdeaee7db5bea5efb1d9fc9d066668ab/docs/mlp-workingnotes
14:10 < kanzure> meredith seems like fenn sometimes
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14:11 < fenn> clone army, attack!
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15:05 < bkero> Can I have a clone army?
15:06 < fenn> will clone for cookies
15:07 < kanzure> hell of a lot of cookies
15:07 < kanzure> ybit: go get the cookie dough
15:07 < drazak> bkero: I'll work on it in boston
15:09 < bkero> Just had an ex girlfriend in boston
15:09 < bkero> She's traveling around the east coast, she was trolling Boston yesterday
15:09 < drazak> nice
15:11 < ybit> we have a hooker in this city, one hooker
15:11 < bkero> Lots of snobbery
15:11 < bkero> Boston has a BUNCH of hookers
15:11 < bkero> They're all college students, trying to pay for school
15:11 < ybit> our hooker doesn't even look hookerish
15:12 < ybit> bkero: there's another name for that here: sorority chicks
15:13 * ybit should be quiet
15:13 * ybit interacts with them everyday
15:20 < drazak> lol
15:29 < fenn> is that what you kids are calling it these days
15:30 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/pymates
15:34 < ybit> yes fenn, that is the urban word for sex
15:34 * ybit interacts with CIA-73
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15:39 < genehacker> most of the machines in the machine shop are manual???
15:39 < ybit> genehacker: have you been working on projector based photolithography?
15:40 < genehacker> WTF
15:40 < genehacker> errr...
15:40 < genehacker> no
15:40 < ybit> what was the 'micrsocope is fuzzy' stuff yesterday?
15:40 < genehacker> I was using an SEM
15:40 < ybit> o.O
15:41 * ybit beats genehacker and steals the sem
15:41 < ybit> CIA-73: don't you say a word about this
15:41 < ybit> genehacker: so what were you using the sem for?
15:42 < genehacker> lol
15:42 < genehacker> the SEM is hard to move
15:42 < genehacker> looking at metal
15:42 < ybit> part of some class?
15:43 < genehacker> to see metal's metallic structure
15:43 < genehacker> yes
15:43 < ybit> why can't we have cool classes in the summer
15:44 < ybit> we have lame-o general ed in the summer, only a few specialized classes, none that are much interesting though
15:44 < genehacker> what's your major?
15:44 < ybit> molecular bio
15:44 < ybit> just getting into the molecular part of it
15:44 < genehacker> oh then that's why you don't get to use an SEM
15:45 < ybit> and the fact that my college sucks major balls
15:45 < genehacker> because you're not taking materials
15:45 < genehacker> which is an ME class
15:45 < ybit> which is why i'll be changing schools for one with a biomedeng undergrad degree
15:46 < genehacker> hey molecular biology can be useful
15:46 < genehacker> this class I'm taking isn't particularly fun either
15:46 < ybit> sure, but i want to take some ee courses too
15:47 < ybit> and some me course would be fun
15:47 < genehacker> the microscope couldn't even see stuff on the nanometer scale and it still was sort of fuzzy
15:47 < ybit> hey, as long as grant money is paying, i can do this
15:47 < genehacker> here's the deal most classes aren't fun
15:47 < ybit> true that
15:47 < genehacker> because you do the same stuff over and over and things get monotonous
15:48 < ybit> school is lame, but if i must go, then i'm going to take some of the more interesting ones
15:48 < genehacker> try underwater basketweaving
15:48 < ybit> best thing about school so far aside from drunken women thinking i'm hot at that particular moment is the professors. i like picking their brains
15:49 < ybit> actually, i know someone who majored in basketweaving :P
15:49 < ybit> now he's the head reference librarian here
15:50 < genehacker> so ybit can you get access to some FPLC machines?
15:50 < ybit> genehacker: that's a good question, i seriously doubt it
15:50 < ybit> couldn't hurt to email a few profs though
15:50 < genehacker> go for it
15:51 < genehacker> we'd like some purified protein
15:51 < genehacker> specifically some nucleotidase
15:51 < ybit> already asked for an inventory list from both the chem and bio department heads, didn't get anything
15:52 < ybit> proposed forming an i-gem team, nothing
15:52 < genehacker> someone tried to start an igem team here
15:52 < genehacker> didn't work out
15:52 < ybit> don't really care too much for i-gem, but i would have to take matters into my own hands if there's any off-campus event going on which i would like to be involved, which might not be a bad thing
15:57 < ybit> genehacker: so what are your plans when you graduate?
15:57 < ybit> work-wise
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15:59 < ybit> my goal is to simply make enough money to build a bio/chem/fab lab, automated garden, and house by the beach, with enough room for to launch machines into space; kind of ambitious
15:59 < ybit> -for
15:59 < kanzure> hm
15:59 < ybit> yes?
16:00 * ybit has been trying to figure out the money situation the past few days, i know that's such a nasty word to use in here
16:01 < ybit> figured if i save 10% of all my earnings for ~20 years, i should have enough for this
16:01 < kanzure> how much money do you need
16:01 < ybit> well, Smari says it's about 100kusd for a fablab now
16:01 < ybit> minimum
16:01 < ybit> phreedom seems to think you can have it for around 10k
16:01 < ybit> i don't think so
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16:02 < ybit> i think it will cost about 100k minimum for the lab, 100k for the property, 100k for the house, 10-30k for misc. things
16:02 < kanzure> you think it would take 20 years to save 100k?
16:02 < ybit> this is the very minimum me thinks
16:02 < ybit> about 400k yeah
16:03 < ybit> the average for a research scientist is 20-40k/year
16:03 < kanzure> you need to check your math
16:03 < ybit> ..in spain
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16:03 < kanzure> you shouldn't be a research scientist
16:03 < ybit> hah, then what?
16:03 < kanzure> join my startup?
16:03 < ybit> thought about neurosurgeon
16:03 < ybit> you have a startup?
16:03 < kanzure> well what do you think's going on in here?
16:04 < kanzure> bullshitting?
16:04 < ybit> hmm
16:04 * kanzure hops a bus
16:05 < ybit> argh, too quick for me.
16:05 < ybit> do you have a business plan, kanzure?
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16:48 < Smari> ybit, for the fab lab as it is in the "standard" package, 100k.
16:49 < Smari> ybit, but if you're smart about it you can probably do better.
16:50 < Smari> it's the capabilities you want.. I'd say don't skimp on the laser, but definitely toss in a RepRap, find a good way to mill circuit boards - I don't support the Modela (Roland MDX-20) myself, it sucks...
16:51 < Smari> Shopbot is something you'll want, or at least something similar.
17:01 < Smari> Torchmates are nice but they're less reliable than the shopbot, although being designed for tool switching is a plus
17:08 < genehacker> mill circuit boards?
17:08 < genehacker> reprap can with some mods
17:19 < Smari> true
17:19 < Smari> reprap needs a good standard milling bit head.
17:20 < Smari> What btw is the accuracy of the reprap like on each axis?
17:20 < Smari> For good PCB milling it needs to be at least in the range of 30 microns or so
17:40 < drazak> how would you guys purify dina in a lab
17:40 < drazak> cells+chaps then centrifue?
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18:07 < genehacker> why would we want to Purify Dina?
18:08 < genehacker> She's one of our friends
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18:15 < kanzure> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~mwalfish/diss.html
18:21 < Smari> kanzure, did we ever reach a conclusion on the file format for defining industrial processes?
18:21 < Smari> I think that conversation was mostly between Sam Rose, you, and myself..
18:24 < kanzure> Smari: that's what's in the skdb repo
18:24 < kanzure> give me a few minutes
18:24 < kanzure> how long will you be awake?
18:25 < Smari> I should probably be going to sleep soon.
18:26 < drazak> genehacker: dna
18:26 < kanzure> okay.
18:26 < kanzure> well. yes, there's a file format that we've been working on
18:26 < kanzure> it is currently somewhat expressed in the repository
18:26 < kanzure> but it's not all in one place
18:26 < kanzure> because it's still in the testing stages
18:27 < Smari> Is it YAML?
18:27 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/pymates/blob/032a6fd404af60e3efc608476058de5fd31ae72e/models/blockhole.yaml
18:27 < kanzure> yeah
18:28 < kanzure> that's a new repo and is not skdb
18:28 < Smari> I started defining an XML one way back when..
18:28 < kanzure> it's a sub project that may be put into skdb eventually
18:28 < Smari> Ah.
18:28 < kanzure> if you have some of the XML laying around I'd love to see it
18:28 < Smari> That's not what I mean though
18:28 < kanzure> right
18:28 < kanzure> but take a look at this:
18:28 < drazak> kanzure: any luck finding any of those papers on http://drazak.net/~drazak/pubmedlist.txt?
18:28 < Smari> hang on, lets see if I can find it
18:28 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/2a25db93088ce8ee7ee0873e73a1cfa59e9dd2ec/processes.yaml
18:29 < kanzure> I lost my eyesight today so please bare with me
18:29 < kanzure> drazak: yeah I'll get to it now after dinner
18:29 < kanzure> will the server be up then?
18:29 < kanzure> Smari: one other thing to note
18:29 < Smari> Why did you lose it?
18:29 < drazak> will drazak.net?
18:29 < drazak> yes
18:29 < Smari> eyesight that is
18:29 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/2a25db93088ce8ee7ee0873e73a1cfa59e9dd2ec/screw.yaml
18:29 < kanzure> the glasses broke
18:29 < Smari> ah
18:29 < Smari> hehe
18:30 < Smari> no damage to the actual eyes then?
18:30 < drazak> kanzure: I was able to find Discher Putra and Malchesky
18:30 < kanzure> ack that screw is totally wrong
18:30 < kanzure> no damage to the eyes
18:30 < Smari> What I mean is different..
18:30 < Smari> I can't find the XML..
18:30 < Smari> but let me toss up a quick example
18:31 < kanzure> there are two things that are going on here I guess
18:31 < kanzure> (1) screw.yaml and blockhole.yaml are partial examples of a format for expressing parts/machines
18:32 < kanzure> (2) taxonomy.yaml is the manufacturing process YAML file
18:32 < kanzure> now, eventually, certain packages (#1) will implement certain attributes for the different processes (from #2)
18:45 < Smari> kanzure, http://smari.yaxic.org/hall-heroult.process -- example
18:45 < Smari> incomplete!
18:46 < Smari> With this you define a network of processes and materials, and could do a chain search..
18:46 < Smari> This could also describe more things like "how to assemble a bike"
18:46 < Smari> but for now I'm more interested in more basic things.
18:47 < Smari> Like specific chemical reactions and industrial processes.
18:52 < Smari> Is it good?
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18:57 < Smari> oft cometh he of whom we speak.
18:57 < Smari> samrose, y0.
18:57 < Smari> samrose, check out: http://smari.yaxic.org/hall-heroult.process
18:58 < Smari> samrose, did we ever reach a conclusion in this discussion?
18:59 < samrose> Smari, we never got very far with that discussion. Can't recall why. I think we were both busy with other stuff
18:59 < Smari> samrose, yeah. It was an interesting and important one, but kind of just shored out.
19:00 < samrose> Can you remind me of where you last left it?
19:00 < samrose> that was it eh? http://www.appropedia.org/Callooh
19:00 < samrose> err
19:00 < Smari> Hmm. That may have been an icelandicism.. "shored out" - "fjaraði út"... dunno, is that something you'd say in English?
19:00 < samrose> http://smari.yaxic.org/hall-heroult.process
19:00 < samrose> shorted out definitely
19:00 < Smari> not the same then
19:00 < Smari> "fjaraði út" means like, "the tide went out"...
19:01 < Smari> nevermind
19:01 < samrose> I see
19:01 < Smari> samrose, I had written another XML file with more or less the same kind of feel to it as that one but I can't remember what happened to it, I just tossed that one together now.
19:01 < Smari> I had also written a draft DTD
19:02 < Smari> Which is now also gone.
19:02 < samrose> Smari did you lose these files?
19:02 < Smari> Both may have been lost when my hard drive crashed last december.
19:02 < samrose> argh, that sucks
19:03 < Smari> yeah
19:03 < Smari> But what do you think, is that something we could use?
19:03 < Smari> Very rudimentary...
19:03 < samrose> I think you are on the right track
19:04 < Smari> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_purification_methods_in_chemistry -- these might need some representation..
19:04 < samrose> the idea of "process" is interesting, actually kind of different from what I have been talking to others about lately, but perhaps a better overall wrapper
19:05 < Smari> I honestly don't know enough about industrial engineering or chemical engineering to flesh out the DTD properly..
19:05 < samrose> Hmmm...you've got me thinking
19:05 < samrose> I wonder if an hierarchical outline would even work for a process
19:06 < Smari> elaborate?
19:06 < kanzure> hello
19:06 < samrose> I mean, I can see how it would easily work
19:06 < kanzure> thanks for the example
19:06 < samrose> but, I am thinking about how chemical emulations of processes might do it
19:07 < kanzure> I encoded a list of separation processes into the YAML format the other day
19:07 < kanzure> there should be a copy of it in the latest commit of skdb
19:07 < Smari> essentially what I'm getting at is a machine readable Merck index that can be traversed. I point a piece of software at my personal inventory and say, "I want to build an airplane", and it searches through this database of processes and finds the shortest path from my inventory to the airplane and tells me what that path is and what else I'm going to need.
19:07 < kanzure> yep[
19:08 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure master * r3d50817 / inventory/hall-heroult.process : added smari example - http://bit.ly/9RGQI
19:08 < kanzure> smari did you read my email about retrosynthetic analysis?
19:08 < Smari> kanzure, nope. Which list? OM?
19:08 < samrose> Smari, yes this is what kanzure has essentially talked to me about too
19:08 < kanzure> it's a way of starting with an end-compound and then working back to simple starting materials (for chemistry)
19:08 < kanzure> but in all honesty this goes for everything (ever)
19:08 < Smari> kanzure, I'm backlogged by several hundred e-mails.
19:08 < kanzure> okay
19:08 < kanzure> just search for 'retrosynthetic'
19:09 < Smari> it wasn't on OM
19:09 < kanzure> ah here we go
19:09 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diytranshumanist/browse_frm/thread/a46d00dc5b9bd694/c839acccc360e2f8?lnk=gst&q=retrosynthetic#c839acccc360e2f8
19:09 < kanzure> well it was on diybio at least
19:09 < samrose> kanzure, I think it could be fairly simple to transform Smari's DTD to YAML should it ever need to be done.
19:09 < kanzure> (that's the diytranshumanist list but anyway)
19:09 < kanzure> samrose: yeah I agree
19:09 < kanzure> samrose: I haven't read through it yet though
19:09 < kanzure> I like how you have units in the file
19:09 < kanzure> that is especially important
19:10 < kanzure> however, 110kV is retarded
19:10 < kanzure> just say 110kV
19:10 < kanzure> there's a wrapper for GNU units in skdb at the moment
19:10 < kanzure> I wonder if I should wake up fenn
19:11 < kanzure> so what I'm doing this week is writing up something called 'pymates', a sub library of skdb to figure out how to connect things together
19:12 < kanzure> at the moment I'm just going to use this random interconnection method and then slowly add in ways to check whether or not there are conflicting/intersecting geometries
19:12 < kanzure> and then whether or not there are conflicting "units ranges"
19:12 < kanzure> for instance, a 3000 psi pipe should not be connected to something that is only rated for a maximum of 20 psi
19:12 < kanzure> (if 3000 psi is going to be coming out of it I mean)
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19:15 < kanzure> ah here we go
19:15 < kanzure> what was the last message that you got, smari?
19:15 < samrose> but, I am wondering how well it would work if I wanted to feed such data into evolutionary algorithms, to potentially create new mutations of processes
19:15 < samrose> I think it could work
19:15 < samrose> I realize that is not your problem
19:15 < samrose> :)
19:15 < Smari> ohh
19:15 < samrose> hahah
19:15 < kanzure> oh crap
19:15 < samrose> kanzure I saw you bumped off
19:15 < kanzure> however, 110kV is retarded
19:15 < kanzure> just say 110kV
19:15 < kanzure> there's a wrapper for GNU units in skdb at the moment
19:15 < kanzure> I wonder if I should wake up fenn
19:15 < kanzure> for instance, a 3000 psi pipe should not be connected to something that is only rated for a maximum of 20 psi
19:15 < kanzure> er
19:16 < kanzure> that was out of order
19:16 < kanzure> at the moment I'm just going to use this random interconnection method and then slowly add in ways to check whether or not there are conflicting/intersecting geometries
19:16 < Smari> kanzure, it's XML. You need tags. Implicit structure breaks XML.
19:16 < kanzure> er
19:16 < kanzure> so that was lal out of order, please excuse me
19:16 < Smari> samrose, you just opened a huge can of worms.
19:16 < kanzure> one part of this app that I am working on this week is a way to connect parts together
19:16 < samrose> Smari forget my shit! :-D
19:16 < kanzure> Smari: yeah actually that's what we're doing at ADL
19:17 < kanzure> samrose: no, no, that's what we're doing in the lab
19:17 < kanzure> we're coming up with new possible combinations of permutations of processes
19:17 < kanzure> or combinations of them
19:17 < kanzure> it's related to shape grammars and graph grammars
19:17 < kanzure> http://graphsynth.com/
19:17 < kanzure> http://ggwiki.org/
19:17 < Smari> yeah, it should be easy to do...
19:17 < samrose> kanzure cool!
19:17 < Smari> but you need a good database of processes..
19:17 < kanzure> Smari: yes, that's what fenn is transcribing
19:17 < kanzure> there's a book that has a good database for about 150
19:17 < kanzure> he's transcribed about 10 of them into the YAML format
19:17 < Smari> neat..
19:17 < kanzure> :p
19:17 < samrose> Smari, yes, I think it would not conflict at all with XML structured doc
19:18 < kanzure> so
19:18 < Smari> because if you've got the inputs and the outputs correct then permuting is merely a question of lining them up in unforseen ways.
19:18 < kanzure> it sounds like we're all still talking about the same things
19:18 < samrose> Smari are you using GNU Unit too?
19:18 < kanzure> Smari: exactly
19:18 < kanzure> there was actually this book I read the toher day
19:18 < Smari> samrose, I haven't written any code.
19:18 < kanzure> it was about purification and separation processes
19:18 < kanzure> and how to logically combine them into different sequences
19:18 < Smari> but using GNU units is sensible.
19:18 < kanzure> because you can't do IEX immediately, or GP immediately
19:19 < kanzure> Smari: well there's a python wrapper in the repo :)
19:19 < kanzure> and unit tests :)
19:19 < kanzure> units unit tests, I mean
19:19 < Smari> kanzure, of course there is! :)
19:19 < kanzure> so anyway, these separation processes are also in the repo (in inventory/)
19:19 < Smari> I got caught up yesterday in writing code for a terrain management thing.. didn't get very far.
19:19 < Smari> What's the git path for skdb again?
19:19 < kanzure> you're both welcome to start, say, poking around in the skdb codebase
19:19 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb.git/
19:19 < kanzure> the pretty web interface is over here though:
19:19 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/
19:20 < Smari> I want to clone it..
19:20 < kanzure> clone the adl link then
19:20 < Smari> spm@cauchy:~/src/skdb$ git clone http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb.git
19:20 < Smari> Initialized empty Git repository in /home/spm/src/skdb/skdb/.git/
19:20 < Smari> fatal: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb.git/info/refs not found: did you run git update-server-info on the server?
19:20 < kanzure> um
19:20 < kanzure> one moment
19:21 < kanzure> yeah
19:21 < kanzure> try again
19:21 < Smari> better
19:21 < kanzure> so, samrose we haven't talked in a while
19:21 < samrose> pulling down for me too
19:21 < kanzure> so I wanted to mention djangit
19:22 < kanzure> djangit is a python wiki based on django and git
19:22 < samrose> you did tell me about djangit last week
19:22 < kanzure> we're considering using it for a frontend web interface to skdb since everyone wants a web interface
19:22 < samrose> the git repo'd django wiki
19:22 < kanzure> anybody who knows how to use git can just use git
19:22 < samrose> kanzure it is a good idea
19:22 < kanzure> but people who want to use a wiki can just use the wiki
19:22 < kanzure> I figure that smari's map could go into there easily enough as a plugin
19:22 < kanzure> one other plguin to implement is stuff like,
19:22 < samrose> not to mention all of the other stuff you could add into a django site
19:22 < samrose> if needed
19:23 < kanzure> if there's a .yaml file being displayed, then render the objects
19:23 < kanzure> by running through the wiki_repr method for each of the objects in the yaml file
19:23 < kanzure> so a wiki_repr method might say something like, display the SVG representation of the process or part
19:23 < Smari> kanzure, we should seriously be discussing merging these projects. It's silly to have them separated considering the commonality of the goals.
19:23 < kanzure> and other various pieces of metadata
19:23 < kanzure> Smari: yeah :)
19:23 < samrose> kanzure this is cool
19:23 < samrose> kanzure igraph is another possibility
19:24 < kanzure> is that like graphviz?
19:24 < samrose> http://igraph.sourceforge.net/
19:24 < samrose> a python lib, with built in network analysis
19:24 < Smari> ohh
19:24 < samrose> kind of like graphviz, but with much more
19:24 < kanzure> check out the images here: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/
19:24 < samrose> anyway, not matter which lib, ideas are awesome
19:24 < kanzure> just some representations of the yaml
19:24 < kanzure> okay
19:25 < Smari> kanzure, what files are the most enlightening in the skdb dir?
19:25 < kanzure> graphviz seems kind of old. if there's something more active, that's awesome
19:25 < kanzure> Smari: skdb.py
19:25 < samrose> I see http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/taxonomy.svg
19:25 < kanzure> samrose: yeah that's a fun one
19:25 < samrose> kanzure, we are working on a little standard that would let you pipe data to all kinds of libraries, pretty much any programming lang
19:25 < kanzure> here's a smaller version of that:
19:25 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/taxonomy-small.png
19:26 < samrose> http://code.google.com/p/flows-dev/
19:26 < samrose> We could make a wrapper for djangit
19:26 < kanzure> samrose: did you ever hear about my ideas for a "semantic shell"?
19:26 < samrose> kanzure, I have not
19:26 < kanzure> it was this idea that ggetopt needs to be revived
19:26 < kanzure> and instead of just specifying arguments in the man pages,'
19:27 < kanzure> they should be specified by what sort of MIME types they are expecting
19:27 < kanzure> kind of like an improved way of doing piping
19:27 < kanzure> or ways to glue shell apps together
19:27 < samrose> huh
19:27 < kanzure> anyway, not sure if that's what you're talking about
19:27 < samrose> it is similar
19:27 < samrose> it could be useful
19:27 < samrose> actually
19:27 < samrose> especially when we start looking at connecting stuff on server with stuff on desktop computer
19:27 < kanzure> talked with the debian people about it a bit, apparently the debtags folks were originally trying to do something like that
19:27 < kanzure> but they all grew vaginas
19:27 < kanzure> and decided to just do tagging
19:28 < samrose> hahah
19:28 < bkero> What is tagging?
19:28 < kanzure> bkero: debtags?
19:28 < bkero> YUes
19:28 < bkero> Yes
19:28 < samrose> Smari, kanzure is good idea to combine efforts
19:28 < kanzure> http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/
19:28 < samrose> should not matter which metadata you use
19:28 < kanzure> debian tag cloud: http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/cloud/
19:29 < kanzure> anyway. it sucks. :)
19:29 < kanzure> they tag them sometimes by what types of files the programs open
19:29 < kanzure> but that is totally bullshit because you don't know how you use them to open those files
19:29 < Smari> The skdb stuff is so chaotic
19:29 < kanzure> Smari: the skdb.py file?
19:30 < Smari> Nah, it's fine.
19:30 < Smari> I mean the rest of the files in the git
19:30 < kanzure> I'd be happy to explain
19:30 < kanzure> oh, the rest is total bullshit
19:30 < kanzure> graphtheory.py for instance is something I committed
19:30 < kanzure> everything in inventory/ is also bullsit
19:30 < kanzure> *bullshit
19:30 < Smari> I think some of those files have value..
19:30 < Smari> but what's missing is a directory structure ;)
19:31 < Smari> and a file structure :P
19:31 < kanzure> yeah :/
19:31 < kanzure> graphtheory.py was my start at a sort of SPICES-like thing for nodal analysis of manufacturing processes
19:31 < kanzure> but also nodal analysis of different parts in the skdb repository
19:31 < kanzure> it's hard to talk about "parts that are in skdb" because that's really talking about a repo that skdb accesses (eventually), not the skdb.git repo :p
19:31 < kanzure> recursive terminology..
19:31 < kanzure> any way to fix this?
19:32 < samrose> what is the intended structure?
19:32 < samrose> if any?
19:32 < kanzure> samrose: eventually we want to do something like "apt-get install microwave-machine"
19:32 < kanzure> so, there is going to be an "skdb repository" of sorts
19:33 < kanzure> which doesn't contain the skdb code, but instead contains all of these machine tools and so on
19:33 < kanzure> which is the data that skdb plays with
19:33 < samrose> yes, sure
19:33 < kanzure> so I guess that could be data/ or something,
19:33 < kanzure> but screw.yaml is the only example at the moment (ok, there's another in the works, but ..)
19:33 < samrose> yes, it probably would work without any strucutre
19:33 < kanzure> it just needs a better name
19:33 < kanzure> so I guess I could say:
19:33 < kanzure> skdb.git to refer to the git dev repo
19:33 < kanzure> and skdb-repo for "stuff that skdb plays with"
19:34 < samrose> so, the only reason to impose a structure is so that people know where to look for what
19:34 < kanzure> or skdb-data, even better
19:34 < kanzure> sure
19:34 < kanzure> skdb.py will probably be moved into core/ eventually
19:34 < kanzure> or something not insane
19:35 < kanzure> oh, btw
19:35 < kanzure> today I found out where the *real* opencascade documentation is
19:35 < samrose> The code we are working on at http://code.google.com/p/flows-dev/ could work as a way to distrubute all of the pieces of the db across multiple machines
19:35 < kanzure> so I uploaded it: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/
19:35 < samrose> cool
19:35 < kanzure> samrose: yeah that would be nice. I was originally thinking of some cron jobs and a mirror system.
19:36 < kanzure> I actually think there are some open source mirror infrastructures already written
19:36 < kanzure> but I don't know about hem
19:36 < kanzure> *them
19:36 < samrose> We have very simple wrappers
19:36 < Smari> gah, I forgot how one reverts to the repository status in git
19:36 < kanzure> Smari: git rebase --hard?
19:36 < Smari> accidentally rm'ed a few files
19:36 < kanzure> git revert head~1 ?
19:36 < samrose> you mean revert to an earlier revision?
19:36 < samrose> kanzure has it I think
19:37 < Smari> spm@cauchy:~/www/tangiblebit.com$ git revert master
19:37 < Smari> fatal: Dirty index: cannot revert
19:37 < kanzure> try git rebase --hard
19:37 < Smari> it gives me a usage help thingie
19:38 < samrose> try upstream
19:38 < kanzure> maybe it was 'git reset --hard' but IIRC it really is 'rebase'
19:38 < Smari> reset --hard worked
19:38 < Smari> thx
19:39 < kanzure> never ever do that when you have made changes
19:39 < Smari> nope :)
19:40 < kanzure> so I guess it requires some cleanup at the moment
19:40 < Smari> okay
19:41 < Smari> sources is now updated quite a bit
19:41 < kanzure> hm?
19:41 < kanzure> notes on how to get OpenCASCADE installed and working: http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/occ
19:42 < kanzure> notes on how to get pythonOCC installed and working: http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc
19:42 < kanzure> notes on how to get HeeksCAD installed and working: http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/heekscad
19:42 < kanzure> (I've also been wrestling with HeeksPython, but there are some development issues with it. All the Heeks people do development on windows for some reason.)
19:43 < Smari> HeeksCAD is fairly good
19:43 < samrose> first time hearing of it
19:44 < kanzure> open source CAD app that uses wxWidgets and OpenCASCADE
19:44 < kanzure> HeeksPython adds a python interpreter to the environment (it's just a plugin)
19:44 < kanzure> it has a much simpler API than pythonOCC, but it's also much more limited
19:47 < kanzure> samrose: so, I'm going on a trip soon up to LA
19:47 < kanzure> things aren't really solid yet, but basically my job might become to make sure that we're killing the most birds with the fewest stones
19:47 < kanzure> when it comes to all of these projects
19:48 < samrose> kanzure, yes it can get crazy when you have many projects going at once
19:48 < kanzure> I've been trying to inform those who don't otherwise know that skdb and related projects are kind of the backend "toolchain" for many of these initiatives
19:48 < samrose> I don't know if I am familiar with all of your ventures, but of course I recall skdb
19:48 < kanzure> so if all goes well, I may have a patron supporting these initiatives and my involvement in (all of) them
19:48 < samrose> awesome
19:49 < samrose> there are people out here in midwest interested in this stuff too
19:49 < kanzure> skdb, pink army, diybio, diytranshumanism, Team FREDNET (F/OSS Google Lunar X Prize team), open source medicine, fablabs, techshops, open source manufacturing, automated design lab work, bioreactor / algae work,
19:49 < samrose> diybio yes
19:49 < kanzure> yeah the diybio people might be understanding things now
19:49 < kanzure> not sure yet, things are kind of turning around
19:50 < samrose> Marcin seems to think that bioreactor is not worth any time
19:50 < kanzure> pink army is the anti-cancer therapeutics personalized medicine open source hardware startup
19:50 < samrose> wow
19:50 < samrose> that's a fuckin crazy start up
19:50 < samrose> hats off to you
19:50 < kanzure> samrose: the project that I have been on isn't going anywhere fast. it's DARPA funded, no genetic engineering allowed, and frankly the filtration device we have designed sucks
19:51 < kanzure> er, the project re: bioreactors
19:51 < samrose> ah yes
19:51 < kanzure> re algae more than bioreactors actually
19:51 < samrose> ok
19:51 < kanzure> basically the entire project is making a bottleneck out of the filter device
19:51 < kanzure> anyway, skdb can also sort of become a startup in the sense that kits could be sold to people who don't want to follow instructions
19:51 < samrose> there is a project going up here in Michigan to create some open source software for automated design
19:51 < kanzure> oh?
19:52 < kanzure> hopefully it's better than the lab fenn and I are working in
19:52 < kanzure> the lab isn't really interested in skdb, although we're slowly changing that
19:52 < kanzure> the lab focuses on "graph grammars"
19:52 < kanzure> but it's more of a computer science thing than engineering thing
19:52 < kanzure> maybe you know some people who are doing some serious automated design?
19:52 < samrose> most of them are from complexity science backgrounds
19:52 < samrose> running genetic algorithms on designs
19:53 < kanzure> yeah that's what the lab does
19:53 < kanzure> except we do more than genetic algorithms
19:53 < samrose> yeah?
19:53 < kanzure> we do a lot of simulated annealing, breadth first searches, depth first searches, topological sort-and-prune
19:53 < kanzure> and some GAs every now and then
19:53 < samrose> hmmm interesting
19:53 < kanzure> and then I spit the output into graphviz :p
19:53 < kanzure> but the output is just nodes connected to other nodes
19:53 < samrose> yours is more informational
19:53 < kanzure> there's a student that I worked with who was doing automated gear train design
19:54 < kanzure> his was using this graph grammar method
19:54 < kanzure> but actually does something
19:54 < kanzure> you give it an input xyz coord and a certain torque, and a requested output torque at another location
19:54 < kanzure> and basically it uses gears and shafts from a McMaster-Carr catalog
19:54 < kanzure> and makes a design that satisfies the requirements to within 5% or something
19:54 < kanzure> the professor and albert had a lot of with it, they made a class of mechanical engineering students do the same design problems as the program
19:55 < kanzure> and found that on average it took the students 12 hours to come up with a 30% efficient solution
19:55 < samrose> yes
19:55 < kanzure> whereas it took about 2 minutes for the design method to do its job
19:55 < samrose> yes, this is similar to results others are talking about
19:55 < samrose> different methods
19:55 < kanzure> right,
19:55 < samrose> but computers compute faster
19:55 < kanzure> graphsynth is this sort of software suite for including different algorithms
19:55 < kanzure> but it's kind of written in .NET and sucks
19:56 < Smari> This is all well and good, but it's two hours past my bedtime and I'm very happy sitting here and debugging xmlrpc stuff
19:56 < kanzure> and the professor isn't really interested in rushing to GPL it
19:56 < samrose> I see http://www.me.utexas.edu/~adl/graphsynth/
19:56 < kanzure> samrose: http://www.graphsynth.com/
19:56 < samrose> later Smari
19:56 < Smari> later?
19:56 < kanzure> yeah. don't be too interested in it.
19:56 < Smari> Nah!
19:56 < samrose> oh, ok
19:56 < samrose> thought you meant you were leaving
19:56 < fenn> gee you sure can get talking when you put your mind to it
19:57 < kanzure> there's not a lot of "engineering" going on in the software really
19:57 < kanzure> one thing that I am writing this week is a part compatibility checking method
19:57 < samrose> will be back tomorrow, thanks for info kanzure. I will fill you in as I learn more
19:57 < kanzure> to see whether or not two parts fit together
19:57 < kanzure> which is kind of important for automated design work (don't know if two things actually fit)
19:57 < kanzure> samrose: are you leaving too?
19:58 < kanzure> so I'm going to be doing some geometrical tests firsts like volume difference and volume interference etc. and then eventually some units/ranges for whether or not there exists some capatibility
20:02 < kanzure> "together, we hate everything"
20:04 < Smari> I have a great tool for you guys as soon as I can remember its name.
20:05 < Smari> http://ubietylab.net/ubigraph/ !
20:07 < kanzure> oh, for dynamic graphs. nice.
20:07 < Smari> http://ubietylab.net.s3.amazonaws.com/DemoReel.mov
20:08 < fenn> fwiw i recently had the epiphany that "process" is the wrong word to describe things you do in industry to achieve an effect
20:08 < fenn> perhaps "procedure" or "method" is better; too bad those are already computer words
20:08 < fenn> because a process could happen whether we want it to or not
20:09 < fenn> whereas these things we describe have definite parameters and sequences of actions
20:09 < fenn> so like a bolt fatiguing with repeated stress cycles, that's a process
20:10 < fenn> at the basic level recipes all involve a process of some sort, which i've tried to sort of capture with the 'mechanism:' field (poorly)
20:10 < kanzure> and the svg diagrams
20:11 < Smari> using computer terms is fine with me as long as you don't collide the meanings.
20:11 < fenn> yeah the diagrams were mostly because i was bored and didnt know what to do, and sick of boxes + arrows crap
20:12 < fenn> Smari: i'm not really interested in some proprietary graph visualization software
20:12 < Smari> fenn, I agree that it sucks that it's proprietary..
20:12 < fenn> it would be nice if GTK somehow had a graph widget
20:13 < fenn> like the tree widget but better
20:13 < Smari> fenn, but it's still free as in free beer and it's by far the best graph visualization tool I've ever seen.
20:13 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:13 < fenn> curious math from ping: 91596 packets transmitted, 91470 received, 0% packet loss
20:14 < fenn> must round down
20:14 < kanzure> is there an "acceptable" amount of packet loss that ping intentionally fudges?
20:15 < kanzure> 126 packets per 91596? meh
20:17 < fenn> btw smari "shored out" == "puttered out"
20:17 < fenn> er, "petered out" i mean
20:17 < Smari> fenn, its just rounding down.
20:17 < fenn> damn i thought i knew english "\
20:18 < Smari> me too
20:18 < Smari> :P
20:23 < fenn> fwiw i think tangiblebit is cooler than skdb
20:23 < fenn> i mean the name
20:23 < fenn> skdb just makes eyes glaze over
20:24 < fenn> i mean we're all trying to make a matter compiler, right?
20:24 < kanzure> separate pieces of the puzzle.
20:25 < Smari> I agree with re name.
20:25 < Smari> 'skdb' doesn't tell me anything... it just makes me want to go do something else.
20:29 < ybit> fenn: what program did you use again to output the svg?
20:30 < ybit> oh, i think you used graphviz
20:30 < ybit> i was thinking of something else though
20:35 < fenn> ybit: taxonomy-graph.py in the skdb directory..
20:36 < fenn> dot -Tsvg
20:36 < fenn> how the hell did i not run across igraph in my search for graph visualization tools?
20:40 < fenn> also btw i added a bunch of separation processes to taxonomy.yaml
20:40 * fenn mumbles something about gitweb still not working
20:46 < ybit> http://ggwiki.org is down?
20:46 < fenn> i didnt do it
20:47 < ybit> GNU Unit, link?
20:48 < fenn> http://www.gnu.org/software/units/
20:48 < ybit> ah, GNU Unit*s*
20:48 < fenn> i'm still not sure it's the best choice long-term.. but all the symbolic math stuff i've seen is horrible with manipulating units
20:49 < ybit> btw, i don't see any responses if there are any, i'm just typing questions i may have while reading the log
20:49 < ybit> just in case there is anyone actually responding to this
20:49 < ybit> ..atm
20:49 < fenn> well fuck you too
20:49 < fenn> .. atm
20:54 < ybit> the flows project on code.google.com that samrose linked to is highly similar to what metacurrency uses
20:54 < ybit> they are all about 'flows'
20:56 < kanzure> fenn: I won't be going in tomorrow at the regular time.
20:56 < fenn> bleh finally: http://adl.serveftp.org/gitweb.cgi?p=skdb.git;a=blob;f=taxonomy.yaml
20:57 < kanzure> where's all the CSS?
20:57 < fenn> picky picky
20:57 < kanzure> I don't like seeing broken CSS
20:57 < kanzure> either do none of it or all of it
20:58 < fenn> you know i had a good .css for gitweb on flaminggaypurpledinosaur
20:59 < fenn> maybe i should just force my gray on gray color scheme on the rest of the world
21:01 < ybit> uh, adl.serveftp.org is giving 403 forbidden :\
21:01 < fenn> the link i just pasted or something else?
21:01 < fenn> oh
21:02 < fenn> kanzure did you break it?
21:02 < kanzure> didn't touch it
21:02 < genehacker> hehehheheheheh
21:04 < fenn> ah, problem solved: Options +ExecCGI instead of Options ExecCGI
21:07 < ybit> kanzure, you've mentioned pink army i don't how many times and everytime i do a search, i always come across two sites: one with nothing on the homepage www.thepinkarmy.com and some breast cancer fund rasing group. maybe the first is link is what you are referring to?
21:08 < ybit> oh, and give an explanation @ 19:47 after i type that out
21:09 < fenn> ybit: are you reading replies yet or not?
21:09 < Smari> XMLRPC stuff added to Sources.
21:10 < fenn> there ought to be unit tests for websites
21:10 < CIA-73> skdb: fenn master * r14494f2 / taxonomy.yaml : remove scratch list - http://bit.ly/CJb5o
21:10 < CIA-73> skdb: fenn master * r23d5f09 / taxonomy.yaml : now it's mixed source data. yummy - http://bit.ly/D1PXy
21:10 < CIA-73> skdb: fenn master * r28bf021 / tags.yaml : i guess this file is for testing custom tags, so make them custom tags eh - http://bit.ly/LG31h
21:10 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure master * rfac8797 / (tags.yaml taxonomy.yaml): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://bryan@adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb - http://bit.ly/wHWCE
21:11 < kanzure> ybit: http://pinkarmy.org/
21:11 < ybit> re: skdb as a startup by kits being sold: kind of like the make magazine's store i would assume, it's really not a bad business model: "look at this cool thing you can make yourself [read:customization/diy you marketers]" "..and you can buy the items needed to make it at our store or just buy several already made for you"
21:12 < kanzure> what I really want to do is cygnus except on roids
21:13 < fenn> yeah man, asteroids with hemirrhoids
21:13 < fenn> gleaming globs of gallium
21:13 < kanzure> steroids
21:14 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure master * re049fd2 / (10 files in 2 dirs): added pymates, moved code around - http://bit.ly/SmsHt
21:17 < kanzure> in skdb/pymates/pymates.py I am saying "import geom"
21:17 < kanzure> there's a skdb/pymates/geom/
21:20 -!- strages [n=strages@c-68-62-216-5.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit []
21:21 < fenn> "click on a link; i shouldnt ever see a 404" this shouldnt be so hard right?
21:21 < kanzure> what's wrong now?
21:23 < ybit> yay, through reading replies
21:23 < ybit> fenn: yes i am done
21:25 < ybit> was an interesting read
21:26 < ybit> the log that is
21:27 < ybit> only 30 more apps left to compile from 'emerge emacs vim'
21:27 < ybit> 30 out of 200
21:27 < ybit> think xorg-x11 was compiled along the way
21:28 * ybit is going to get some fresh air
21:28 < ybit> don't think it's healthy to sit through such a long compilation process
21:29 < kanzure> bah!
21:29 < kanzure> you kids and your fresh air
21:29 < ybit> :P
21:29 < kanzure> back in my day we had smoke
21:29 < kanzure> anbd we were lucky if we got it
21:29 < ybit> :D
21:29 < kanzure> not the good kind of second hand smoke, I'm talking the bad kind
21:29 < kanzure> *talking
21:29 < fenn> nothing wrong, just muttering about unit tests for websites that should be easy enough to implement
21:33 < genehacker> they did again
21:34 < kanzure> they deid who?
21:34 < genehacker> they
21:34 < genehacker> err he did
21:34 < genehacker> http://nextbigfuture.com/
21:34 < genehacker> finally published it
21:37 < genehacker> wonder if AB matter would be really heavy and impractical
21:38 < genehacker> checked out some of the stuff on his levitator thing
21:38 < genehacker> and it seems like it some of the materials he suggested weren't good enough for it
21:38 < fenn> please shut up about AB matter until you have some idea about how one might possibly go about making it
21:39 < genehacker> it's in the paper
21:39 < fenn> and even then, why "AB matter"
21:39 < fenn> no he just says "you string together protons and neutrons"
21:41 < fenn> fwiw bolonkin didn't invent picotech or femtotech either
21:41 < genehacker> faster AB matter production rates require AB matter
21:41 < kanzure> http://numpy.scipy.org/
21:41 < fenn> orgone accumulation is proportional to the concentration of orgone
21:42 < genehacker> Some offered technologies for producing: AB-Matter.
21:42 < genehacker> One method of producing AB-Matter may use the
21:42 < genehacker> technology reminiscent of computer chips (Fig. 4). One
21:42 < genehacker> side of closed box 1 is evaporation mask 2. In the other
21:42 < genehacker> size are located the sources of neutrons, charged
21:42 < genehacker> nuclear particles (protons, charged nuclei and their
21:42 < genehacker> connections) and electrons. Sources (guns) of charged
21:42 < genehacker> particles have accelerators of particles and control their
21:42 < genehacker> energy and direction. They concentrate (focus)
21:42 < genehacker> particles, send particles (in beam form) to needed points
21:42 < genehacker> with needed energy for overcoming the Coulomb
21:42 < genehacker> barrier. The needed neutrons are received also from
21:42 < genehacker> nuclear reactions and reflected by the containing walls.
21:42 < genehacker> oops
21:42 < genehacker> just read the paper
21:43 < genehacker> if not just for the lulz
21:45 < genehacker> huh?
21:45 < genehacker> is my room mate smoking?
21:46 < genehacker> ugh
21:47 < kanzure> er. in my __init__() there are potentially many parameters (named). but the class inherits from another class. how can I pass some of the parameters to the parent class's initiator, and then make this initaitor just extend it?
21:47 -!- strages [n=strages@c-68-62-216-5.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:54 * ybit just traversed roughly 1 mile and is now about to croak over dead. it was nice knowing you all
21:54 * ybit needs a krispy kreme donut
21:55 < fenn> kanzure: parent.__init__()
21:55 < kanzure> parent is special?
21:55 < fenn> no
21:55 < kanzure> is parent like self just not the self?
21:55 < fenn> i think there's some keyword __super__ but i'm not sure what it does
21:56 < kanzure> okay. I'm familiar with the super.
21:56 < fenn> or maybe it's super(foo)
21:58 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure master * r7cc204e / (pymates/geom.py pymates/primitives.py pymates/pymates.py): primitive primitives and geometries for part mating - http://bit.ly/3F5bmW
21:59 < fenn> since you're specifying the parent classes in the class definition i think actually using the parent class name is not a bad thing
21:59 < fenn> if you inherit from two classes, which one is the super?
22:00 < kanzure> so if I inherit from foo.bar, then I could say foo.bar(stuff) in place of super(stuff)?
22:01 < kanzure> that doesn't seem to work
22:02 < fenn> sure why not
22:02 < fenn> foo.bar.__init__(stuff)
22:03 < fenn> foo.bar(stuff) would make a foo.bar instance
22:03 < kanzure> and all of the attributes will apply to the current object that has that super/parent?
22:03 < fenn> uh, i'm not sure classes can have .'s in them though
22:04 < fenn> guess they can
22:04 < kanzure> okay it works
22:04 < kanzure> it's actually foo.bar.__init__(self,stuff)
22:04 < fenn> init is not a constructor, it's an initializer
22:04 < kanzure> hm
22:04 < kanzure> there's a difference apparently
22:04 * fenn shrugs
22:05 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure master * r3b4861b / pymates/geom.py : fixed geom.py - http://bit.ly/PFYXo
22:06 < kanzure> blah
22:06 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure master * rfee191a / pymates/geom.py : ok, really fixed it this time - http://bit.ly/DLynP
22:06 < kanzure> better
22:17 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure master * rda5d23a / pymates/tests.py : basic test framework for pymates - http://bit.ly/was6k
22:41 < Smari> http://www-vrl.umich.edu/sel_prj/lathe/index.html
22:42 < ybit> harry potter brought in $62 million in one night
22:42 < ybit> [OT]
22:45 < genehacker> smari, I used a lathe today
22:45 < ybit> -_-
22:45 < genehacker> ybit, seed MOAR
22:45 < ybit> sorry, just jealous
22:45 < genehacker> of harry potter?
22:46 < genehacker> if so then LOL PIRACY
22:46 < ybit> no no, that you were able to use an interesting tool that i'd like to own
22:46 < ybit> well, it's not highly interesting, but i still want it
22:47 < ybit> i had something to do with harry potter this year
22:47 < ybit> i wanted to do something stupid fun for a charity, so i put together a charity event
22:48 < ybit> let's see...
22:48 < ybit> google: heath matlock florala harry potter
22:48 < ybit> first article shows the event
22:48 < ybit> mentions me 'heath matlock'
22:50 < ybit> next stupid fun thing to do: 'laser graffati' on buildings downtown during some local misc. event
22:50 < ybit> would link to the article but i don't know how to copy/paste from screen in a tty
23:12 < kanzure> screen was made for that :p
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23:43 < ybit> well, that's simple enough
23:43 < ybit> never really looked into it
23:43 < ybit> just not sure how to copy/paste from within links
23:43 < ybit> splitting windows and monitoring windows is useful
23:50 < kanzure> what I don't like about OOP is that no matter how many classes I write, it doesn't feel like progress at all
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23:53 < genehacker> kanzure, got a question
23:54 < genehacker> does that CD protein purification thing purify a solution of multiple proteins or just one protein from solution?
23:54 < genehacker> flow control can be quite a problem in microfluidics
23:55 < genehacker> saw a google ad about this company marketing a $$$$PROPRIETARY$$$$ control system for microfluidics
23:55 < genehacker> apparently you get some inaccuracy from the PDMS or flexible connector tubing deforming
23:56 < genehacker> though if we do those stryene style microfluidics this shouldn't be problem