--- Day changed Mon Jul 20 2009
00:24 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk
00:24 < bkero> Pretty decent tablet on woot if anyone is interested.
01:08 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * rd14365092c23 /pymates/pymates.py: cleaned up some of the variables
01:20 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * r81871bf249f6 /pymates/pymates.py: cleaning up cruft, a comment
02:47 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_CASCADE  :: """Open CASCADE is a software development platform for 3D CAD, CAM, CAE, etc. that is developed and supported by Open CASCADE S.A.S.. It is available under the "Open CASCADE Technology Public License" which the developer claims to be "LGPL-like with certain differences". Despite this claim, it is not listed as compatible with the LGPL license by the publisher of the LGPL, the Free Software Foundation. [1] I
02:47 < ybit> i didn't realize there were licensing issues with occ
03:16 < genehacker_vista> HOLY COW
03:16 < genehacker_vista> SOMETHING HIT JUPITER
03:19 < genehacker_vista> maybe
03:24 < QuantumG> that's what jupiter is for :)
03:27 < splicer-afk> (the vacuum cleaner of the system)
03:39 < splicer-afk> hehehe: http://2012-comet.com/phpbb/2012/
03:40 < splicer-afk> ...they sell gifts too of course
03:55 < genehacker_vista> heh
03:56 < genehacker_vista> (I'd hit that reference here)
03:57 < genehacker_vista> lol that's not a meteor
03:57 < genehacker_vista> that's a picture of a nebula
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04:27 < drazak> ybit: not too many
04:28 < drazak> ybit: there's a few it'd be nice to have on VEGFA isoforms
04:32 < drazak> so, today we transformed cells, when we go in we're killing the ones that didn't transform with amphocilin, wedsnesday we're transfecting them into tissue, tomorrow we're purifying and doing electrophoresis
04:32 < drazak> apparently we're also doing some microfluidics stuff, but that hasn't been shown to me other than changing the flow rate on some devices
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07:14 < kanzure> "
07:14 < kanzure> "
07:14 < kanzure> i compiled my kernel using that flag , and now it boots Windows instead.
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07:27 < kanzure> hi SMari
07:27 < kanzure> *Smari
07:27 < Smari> y0
07:27 < Smari> I hate this laptop
07:28 < kanzure> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1307799&cid=28749853
07:28 < kanzure> re: bakcups
07:28 < kanzure> *backups
07:36 < kanzure> re: backups http://jwz.livejournal.com/801607.html
07:37 < CIA-73> Tangiblebit: spm * r1e590359ba48 /tangiblebit.com/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Restructuring JavaScript interface...
07:37 < CIA-73> Tangiblebit: spm * re2d6f13a4b7f /tangiblebit.com/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Pushing around some javascript functions, cleaning up site management interface.
07:40 < kanzure> you replaced the #'s with *'s?
07:42 < Smari> That was one of the changes, yes.
07:42 < Smari> # is enumerations, * is bullet list. I've spent too much time on Wikipedia. :P
07:45 < Smari> I didn't get much work done this weekend, mostly just thinking and planning
07:49 < kanzure> hahah: http://millionairemate.com/ thanks slashdot
07:56 < kanzure> hah: http://seekingarrangement.com/
07:58 < kanzure> fun stuff
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08:04 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * r3535812d1a9a /pymates/shell.sh: interactive shell script added
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09:39 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * r490a84d44689 /pymates/monday.py: bus ride commit- cleaning up monday.py
09:47 < kanzure> http://mccormick.cx/news/entries/RDC.news recursive dimensional clustering - collision detection in pure python
09:52 < kanzure> http://2009.igem.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&limit=1000&days=3000&hideminor=0
09:53 < kanzure> er, use this instead:
09:53 < kanzure> http://2009.igem.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&limit=1000&days=3000&hideminor=1
09:53 < kanzure> hm still doesn't give me anything sooner than 2009-07-18
09:54 < kanzure> what was used to generate this image? http://www.reprap.org/pub/Main/AssemblingDarwinMachinery/Assembly.JPG
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10:35 < ybit> kanzure: did you ever find out what created the reprap image?
10:36 -!- maradydd_ [n=mlp@88.147.36.140] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:37 < ybit> maradydd_ == meredith?
10:39 < ybit> or marnia?
10:39 < ybit> ah, mlp
10:39 < ybit> ^is for future reference
10:41 < ybit> anyone tried using code_saturne or openfoam? kanzure, i know you used elmer
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11:14 < ybit> neat, sourceforge list of human machine interface software: http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php
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11:15 < ybit> Smari: i'm guessing you were aware of parsec cee "The PARSEC CEE is the primary achievement of several years of effort at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center. The CEE was developed to allow engineers in the Advanced Concepts Department to rapidly prototype launch vehicle and spacecraft concepts."
11:16 < ybit> http://parseccee.sourceforge.net/
11:20 < ybit> related to open source medicine: http://medsphere.org/index.jspa which released open vista: http://sourceforge.net/projects/openvista/ documentation here: http://medsphere.org/docs/DOC-1181
11:20 < ybit> "OpenVista is the open-source version of VistA, which is an enterprise grade health care information system developed by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and deployed at nearly 1,500 facilities worldwide."
11:20 < Smari> ybit, hmm?
11:22 < ybit> Smari: you had developed a model rocket simulation software, correct?
11:23 < ybit> i'm guessing this might be of interest as well, but i guess your focus is slightly different
11:24 < ybit> http://openrocket.sourceforge.net right?
11:25 < Smari> ybit, no, that's not me.
11:25 < ybit> oh, hmm
11:25 < ybit> Smari: you're fablab guy then i do believe
11:26 < Smari> yes.
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11:26 < ybit> let's see QuantumG then, is it your software?
11:26 < ybit> argh, guess i'll have to give in concatenate all these log files
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11:58 < kanzure> btw, I committed some python wrappers to google scholar to my ~/sandbox today
11:58 < kanzure> not that anybody can access them
11:58 < kanzure> I also import zotero
11:58 < kanzure> http://onebiglibrary.net/story/zotero-commandline-love-mozrepl
12:01 < ybit> Code_Saturne® enables an accurate representation of
12:01 < ybit> the equipment, medical staff, patient and HVAC
12:01 < ybit> (heating, ventilation and air conditioning) in order to
12:01 < ybit> determine zones where contamination risks are high
12:01 < ybit> and to evaluate the efficiency of the ceiling
12:01 < ybit> ventilation device.
12:01 < ybit> one use of code_saturne which i think is neat
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12:03 < kanzure> well this is lame
12:03 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/FoundationClasses/html/annotated.html#gp_Trsf
12:03 < kanzure> using #gp_Trsf doesn't link you to the section on gp_Trsf2d
12:04 < kanzure> seems to use this format though: V1 V2 V3 T XYZ XYZ 
12:04 < ybit> kanzure: is Draw installed to /usr/bin typically?
12:04 < ybit> updatedb && locate draw shows nothing atm :\
12:04 < kanzure> why do you need draw?
12:04 < ybit> i'm just getting my feet wet with opencascade today
12:05 < kanzure> what are you doing?
12:05 < ybit> familiarizing myself with it
12:05 < kanzure> so you're looking for OCC.Draw ?
12:05 < kanzure> because there is no OCC.Draw
12:05 < ybit> that could be it
12:05 < kanzure> are you configuring the source for compiling?
12:05 < kanzure> or have you installed the debs for opencascade already?
12:06 < kanzure> have you compiled pythonOCC yet? (etc.)
12:06 < ybit> i've already done ./configure ; make ; make install
12:06 < kanzure> just wondering at what step of the plan you are at
12:06 < kanzure> what have you done that for?
12:06 < ybit> opencascade
12:06 < kanzure> gentoo?
12:06 < ybit> yeah
12:06 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/occ
12:06 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc
12:06 < ybit> right
12:06 < kanzure> installation notes
12:06 < ybit> ah
12:07 < ybit> i thought they were links to documentation
12:07 < kanzure> the second one has installation notes for pythonOCC
12:07 < ybit> and it is :)
12:07 < ybit> ah
12:07 < ybit> ah yes, both of these are already open
12:07 < ybit> including heekscad notes which i'm glad you posted
12:07 < kanzure> so why are you missing Draw?
12:07 < kanzure> I mean, why are you using Draw?
12:07 < ybit> good question
12:07 < kanzure> er, at what step in this process are you using Draw?
12:08 < kanzure> I have never heard of this program
12:08 < ybit> it was in one of the occ docs i was looking at
12:11 < fenn> compiling opencascade gave me no end of hell
12:12 < fenn> is it really as simple as configure && make now?
12:13 < genehacker_vista> ugh
12:13 < fenn> ybit: i've collected some intro stuff here: http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/occ
12:13 < genehacker_vista> what do you do with bad data?
12:13 < genehacker_vista> when you have no choice but to use it?
12:13 < kanzure> you yell at it
12:13 < fenn> ybit: i'm following the bottle tutorial; seems like a good way to learn the API
12:13 < kanzure> you can also do some statistics to "
12:13 < kanzure> "fix" it
12:13 < genehacker_vista> it's noisy
12:14 < kanzure> try out the R language
12:14 < kanzure> http://r-project.org/
12:14 < fenn> all data is noisy
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12:15 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/FoundationClasses/html/classgp__Trsf.html
12:15 < ybit> it didn't have a problem with ./configure ; make ; make install
12:15 < ybit> it wasn't painful at all
12:16 < ybit> thanks for the info fenn, i'll check it out when i get back from making pizza in the kitchen
12:16 < fenn> speaking of pizza.. /me heads off to lunch
12:16 < kanzure> me too
12:16 < kanzure> stop following me
12:16 < fenn> right, when i stop reading your mind maybe
12:52 < genehacker_vista> well awesome
12:53 < ybit> ?
12:53 < genehacker_vista> data works
12:53 < genehacker_vista> even though it's noisy
12:56 < ybit> genehacker_vista: data from what?
12:56 < ybit> afk again, hands are about to be too greasy to type
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12:58 < genehacker_vista> lab
13:02 < kanzure> does anyone know a flag to send ./configure for opencascade to only compile the samples?
13:02 < kanzure> or might they already be compiled somewhere on my filesystem?
13:07 < fenn> "People think they are better than average, and better than they are.  Only clinically depressed people have a first-person judgment that matches a third-person judgment of their status."
13:08 < kanzure> and do traumatically depressed individuals invert the whole space-time manifold of valuation judgments?
13:09 < fenn> no, apparently they just subtract the pro-me bias
13:09 < kanzure> I hate how people use probability distributions to argue about how good they are.
13:09 < kanzure> anna was big into talking about how she was somewhere on the distribution above average
13:09 < kanzure> and using this in arguments or something
13:09 < fenn> i'm 68% better than that
13:09 < kanzure> "I know that because I am over here on this side of the curve, I am therefore able to .."
13:10 < kanzure> this pattern of thinking spooks the hell out of me
13:10 < kanzure> why would anybody rely on it?
13:10 < fenn> you mean relative vs absolute measurement?
13:10 < kanzure> no, the distribution is of scores on a measurement like IQ
13:10 < fenn> or just probability in general
13:10 < kanzure> in general
13:10 < fenn> i dont see how probability has much to do with being able to do something
13:10 < kanzure> agreed
13:10 < fenn> only whether it will happen or not
13:11 < fenn> for example i have a 30% chance of actually writing code today
13:11 < kanzure> apparently HR people sometimes do probability distributions to figure out how much to pay somebody based off of expected return on investment, etc.
13:11 < fenn> my sources tell me they just look up what other people with the same degrees are paying in the geographic area
13:11 < fenn> bein paid*
13:12 < kanzure> hm I wonder why I keep losing /usr/include/opencascade/config.h
13:12 < kanzure> the configure script seems to fuck with it
13:12 < kanzure> I stole it from leibniz last night and now it's gone
13:12 < fenn> money is relative anyway so in a twisted way it makes sense to use relative measurements
13:13 < kanzure> hm leibniz:/usr/include/opencascade/config.h doesn't exist. where have all these files gone?
13:13 < kanzure> aha 
13:13 < fenn> "where have all the files gone" sounds like some beatles song
13:14 < kanzure> leibniz:/home/bryan/manufacturing/opencascade/OpenCASCADE6.30/ros/inc/config.h
13:14 < kanzure> er
13:14 < kanzure> leibniz:/home/bryan/manufacturing/opencascade/OpenCASCADE6.3.0/ros/inc/config.h
13:14 < kanzure> or now pikachu:~/local/opencascade/OpenCASCADE6.3.0/ros/config.h_leibniz
13:15 < kanzure> oh maybe pikachu:~/local/opencascade/OpenCASCADE6.3.0/ros/config.h should be copied into inc/
13:15 < kanzure> hah!
13:15 < kanzure>  /* 2009-03-29 Bryan Bishop trying to get gmsh compilation to work with OCC support (ugh) */
13:15 < kanzure> line 344 of config.h from leibniz
13:16 < kanzure> apparently gmsh forgot to do a "using namespace std"
13:20 < ybit> what is leibniz?
13:20 < ybit> name of your machines, kanzure?
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13:21 < kanzure> ybit: leibniz is this monstrous big black box with a tiny quadcore humming away deep inside
13:22 < kanzure> ybit: pikachu is my laptop
13:22 < kanzure> ybit: adl.serveftp.org is davinci
13:23 < ybit> heh, i named one of my machines after a pokemon character too :)
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13:27 < kanzure> uh
13:27 < kanzure> myBRepTransformation = BRepBuilderAPI_Transform(OriginalShape,theTransformation)
13:27 < kanzure>  TransformedShape = myBRepTransformation.Shape()
13:27 < kanzure> that is not how I was doing it
13:29 < kanzure> some examples that use it: http://www.dia.uniroma3.it/~scorzell/cscheme/gallery_toptransformation.htm
13:29 < fenn> that's how the tutorial does it
13:29 < kanzure> in this case the shape is modified
13:29 < kanzure> so any translation is applied to the shape
13:30 < kanzure> but the way that I was doing it, you just set some coordinates for the shape to be at
13:30  * kanzure finds link
13:30 < genehacker_vista> what's all this topolgy transformation for
13:30 < genehacker_vista> what exactly are you doing?
13:30 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/490a84d446896564d007ea2c149347bfd44a4b4e/pymates/pymates.py
13:30 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: automatic part mating
13:30 < genehacker_vista> oh
13:30 < fenn> genehacker_vista: playing with virtual legos
13:30 < genehacker_vista> awesome
13:31 < kanzure> so I was doing this:
13:31 < kanzure> OCC.Display.wxSamplesGui.display.Context.SetLocation(part.ais_shapes, the_toploc)
13:31 < kanzure> which set the location of the shape in the display
13:31 < genehacker_vista> can you make any gear though
13:31 < kanzure> fenn: should I not move the shape itself?
13:31 < genehacker_vista> if you can figure out mating that should be trivial
13:32 < genehacker_vista> just mating of rotating parts
13:32 < kanzure> so when you move an object in a CAD file, what feels more natural:
13:32 < kanzure> the object is no longer at the origin (0,0,0) ?
13:32 < kanzure> or the object is at (0,0,0), and there's a global displacement vector or something
13:33 < kanzure> or some transformation matrix, I mean
13:33 < fenn> i like the Transformation.Shape()
13:33 < genehacker_vista> what program are you using?
13:33 < fenn> because you could have different transforms stored for the same object that way
13:33 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: making my own program
13:33 < fenn> like assembly vs exploded view
13:33 < kanzure> okay
13:33 < genehacker_vista> and can you smart dimenion in it?
13:33 < genehacker_vista> if yes then send me that program
13:33 < kanzure> this is skdb, genehacker_vista 
13:33 < kanzure> yes, opencascade does parametric dimensioning
13:34 < fenn> what is "smart dimensioning"?
13:34 < kanzure> maybe it's like Microsoft Visual Studio "IntelliSense"
13:34 < fenn> yeah i figured
13:34 < fenn> but what does it actually refer to
13:35 < fenn> sounds like solidworks BS
13:36 < ybit> Scale-Space Representations and their Applications to 3D Matching of
13:36 < ybit> Solid Models
13:36 < fenn> solidworks isnt exactly known for being highly parametric
13:36 < ybit> cool
13:36 < kanzure> "# smart dimensioning knows how to dimension lines and circles differently; when dimensioning between two lines, you can toggle between the distance and the angle. Double-click to change dimension text to a formula; dimensions can be driven by formulas linked from Excel."
13:36 < kanzure> haha
13:37 < fenn> where's that from?
13:37 < kanzure> http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:hJP6-0r-TZAJ:www.upfrontezine.com/2006/upf-486.htm+%22smart+dimensioning%22+solidworks&cd=26&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=iceweasel-a
13:37 < kanzure> http://www.upfrontezine.com/2006/upf-486.htm
13:38 < kanzure> sounds like it's just a wrapper for dimensioning
13:52 < genehacker_vista> are you guys making a highly parametric cad system?
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13:53 < genehacker_vista> if you're making a highly parametric cad system
13:53 < genehacker_vista> ur doin it right
13:54 < kanzure> gp_Ax3 seems to be a local coordinate system http://www.opencascade.org/org/forum/thread_766/
13:55 < kanzure> oh you can grab gp_Ax3 from your cylinder object
13:55 < kanzure> if (aSurface.GetType() == GeomAbs_Cylinder){
13:55 < kanzure> gp_Cylinder myCylinder = aSurface.Cylinder();
13:55 < kanzure> gp_Ax3 myAxis = myCylinder.Position();
13:55 < kanzure> gp_Dir theDirect = myAxis.Direction();
13:55 < kanzure> http://www.opencascade.org/org/forum/thread_5410/
13:57 < kanzure> what happened to OCC.ShapePlacement?
13:57 < kanzure> hm there's also ShapeInterface
13:58 < kanzure> well there used to be at least
13:59 < fenn> i guess this explains the Standard_Int stuff? http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/FoundationClasses/html/classPrecision.html
14:00 < kanzure> weird way to go about it
14:00 < kanzure> they should just not allow the == operator to begin with
14:00 < kanzure> and just throw an exception
14:00 < kanzure> or a compiler error, I mean
14:00 < fenn> i would just overload ==
14:01 < kanzure> what's with the terrible formatting on this page
14:01 < kanzure> someone failed <br/>101
14:03 < kanzure> the explanation of SetTransformation on this page actually makes sense: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/FoundationClasses/html/classgp__Trsf.html
14:04 < kanzure> I'm not sure though what the example use of SetDisplacement should be
14:16 < fenn> i think Ax3 is just translation and rotation; i.e. a subset of affine transforms
14:27 < kanzure> in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/OCC/gp.py there's a line that says import _gp
14:28 < kanzure> where do I go find _gp?
14:28 < kanzure> it's not in that same directory
14:28 < kanzure> I'm trying to figure out if gp_Pnt.Coord() is implemented or not
14:29 < kanzure> the file documents it as something totally different from the SWIG error
14:29 < kanzure> Coord(self, Standard_Real OutValue, Standard_Real OutValue)
14:29 < kanzure> where as I get this error:     return _gp.gp_Pnt_Coord(*args)
14:29 < kanzure> NotImplementedError: Wrong number of arguments for overloaded function 'gp_Pnt_Coord'.
14:29 < kanzure>   Possible C/C++ prototypes are:
14:29 < kanzure>     Coord(gp_Pnt const *,Standard_Integer const)
14:29 < kanzure>     Coord(gp_Pnt const *,Standard_Real &,Standard_Real &,Standard_Real &)
14:29 < kanzure>     Coord(gp_Pnt const *)
14:39 < kanzure> well that was a waste of time
14:39 < kanzure> there's no way to get a Standard_Real int, or at least easily
14:39 < kanzure> you can try this though: XYZ = OCC.gp.gp_XYZ()
14:40 < kanzure> XYZ._SBDERC_Setgp_XYZx = 10
14:40 < kanzure> XYZ._SBDERC_Setgp_XYZy = 0.1
14:40 < kanzure> XYZ._SBDERC_Setgp_XYZz = 2
14:40 < kanzure> XYZ._SBDERC_Getgp_XYZx then will return the Standard_Real I think
14:41 < kanzure> er, nope. that just returns a float.
14:41 < kanzure> there's no OCC.Standard.Standard_Real either
14:44 < kanzure> aha.. all numbers must be floats when you pass them into anything in OCC
14:44 < kanzure> so do something like XYZ = OCC.gp.gp_XYZ(1.,2.,3.) to get something going
14:46 < kanzure> kind of lame that this breaks some of the dynamic typing
14:47 < fenn> ints work fine for me
14:47 < fenn> i mean, no decimal points
14:47 < fenn> might be a python version thing
14:47 < fenn> (2.6 here)
14:49 < fenn> foo = gp_XYZ(1,2,3)
14:49 < fenn> foo.Coord()
14:49 < fenn> (1.0, 2.0, 3.0)
14:50 < kanzure> gp_XYZ is not gp_Pnt
14:50 < kanzure> get a gp_Pnt's Coord() to work when passing it three variables (X2, Y2, Z2)
14:51 < fenn> that's not very pythonic
14:51 < kanzure> it doesn't even work
14:51 < kanzure> and I'm still trying to understand the documentation
14:51 < kanzure> so I'm doing as you suggested ... running it
14:51 < fenn> good, i hate that kind of code
14:51 < kanzure> but it doesn't even run
14:51 < kanzure> so what now
14:51 < fenn> running what?
14:51 < kanzure> the code that exemplifies SetTransformation for gp_Trsf
14:51 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/FoundationClasses/html/classgp__Trsf.html
14:52 < kanzure> remember? calling Coord(X2,Y2,Z2) of some gp_Pnt object?
14:52 < fenn> yes
14:53 < kanzure> so yeah, that doesn't work
14:53 < fenn> how bout just P2.Coord()
14:53 < kanzure> that's not what the example says
14:53 < fenn> sfw
14:53 < kanzure> well how do I know what the example is telling me
14:53 < kanzure> if I am unable to run it?
14:54 < fenn> the example is also written in C++, so are you going to put semicolons all over your python code?
14:54 < kanzure> why would I do that?
14:54 < fenn> because the example says so!!~
14:55 < kanzure> your analogy is flawed
14:55 < fenn> well, does P2.Coord() work or not?
14:55 < kanzure> yes it does
14:55 < kanzure> btu it's just P1.Transformed(T)
14:55 < fenn> ok so shut up and get back to work :P
14:55 < kanzure> has nothing to do with X2,Y2,Z2
14:55 < fenn> yeah that's the whole point
14:55 < kanzure> um?
14:55 < kanzure> but then why did the example define it
14:55 < kanzure> define *them
14:55 < kanzure> and why did the example pass them to P2.Coord() ??
14:56 < fenn> because variables are precious and we must reuse them at all costs
14:57 < fenn> they probably smoked too much crack that day or something
14:57 < fenn> P2.Coord (x2, y2, z2); is valid in C++
14:57 < fenn> it's not very pythonic so it's not in the pythonOCC API (i guess)
14:58 < kanzure> I don't think SWIG selectively removes overloaded methods
14:58 < kanzure> or overloads that it dislikes
15:04 < kanzure> "For this point gives its three coordinates Xp, Yp and Zp. "
15:04 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/FoundationClasses/html/classgp__Pnt.html
15:06 < kanzure> that's not even valid english
15:06 < kanzure> how was I supposed to know that it assigns the pointcoords to those three variables?
15:07 < kanzure> so anyway that was all because of the example to SetTransformation for gp_Trsf
15:07 < fenn> i highly recommend everyone to ignore all that. too bad i can't say that an hour ago and spare myself the grief
15:08 < kanzure> it looks like mostly anything in OCC.gp.gp_* has a Transformed method
15:08 < kanzure> (which you pass your gp_Trsf to)
15:16 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * rc05742ebece2 /pymates/notes: monday meeting notes
15:16 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * r52440365d8ed /pymates/pymates.py: might have found something interesting in the OpenCASCADE API
15:16 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * re031d8145604 /pymates/pymates.py: using a better way of doing transformations
15:29 < kanzure> hah! my dorm internet connection is still active.
15:31 < kanzure> "Moving on 31-July.  I'd like to see the report.  I think we're open to anything for the repository as long as it maintains all of the current information types and has the ability to add new as needed.  I'm around the office this week but will be somewhat scarce next week.
15:31 < kanzure> " - Rob Stone.
15:31 < fenn> pretty cool document; from trees to finished product: http://www.fao.org/docrep/009/ag335e/AG335E00.htm#TOC
15:31 < fenn> i've been looking at the "secondary machining operations" section
15:32 < kanzure> nice flow graphs
15:32 < kanzure> http://www.fao.org/docrep/009/ag335e/AG335E09.htm#ch8.2.2
15:32 < fenn> notice how they're all sequential (i.e. a string, not a graph)
15:33 < fenn> so we have to tell rob stone how to fix everything in one week?
15:36 < ybit> is pythonocc really that large? i've been make installing for hours
15:36 < fenn> no
15:36 < ybit> hmm
15:36 < ybit> maybe my comp is under much stress
15:36 < fenn> oh you mean opencascade?
15:36 < ybit> no
15:37 < ybit> though it may be recompiling occ
15:37 < fenn> the only things in pythonocc are in src/OCC/ build/OCC/ Utils/ and src/Display 
15:37 < fenn> 'make install' just stuffs it all in one dir and puts in site-packages or whatever your python install wants
15:38 < ybit> i used "python setup.py install"
15:38 < fenn> i didnt have any luck with either that or scons mode=install
15:39 < ybit> guess i'll let it finish before try anything manual
15:39 < fenn> if it finishes
15:40 < ybit> i'm not too concerned, occ isn't the main todo for today
15:45 < fenn> "The band saw is widely regarded as among the safest of all woodworking machinery"
15:46 < fenn> i guess if your idea of woodworking machinery is "moving blades you shove your hands into"
15:52 < ybit> is citation explorer not working for anyone else?
15:53 < ybit> firefox 3.0.11 here
15:54 < kanzure> ybit: did you try scons with fenn's notes?
15:55 < kanzure> fenn: maybe we just show him what we're working on, and say that "this is a better idea, it does the same thing, and then some"
15:57 < fenn> i dont know what you're talking about
16:02 < kanzure> rob
16:02 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * r8393ef728a06 /pymates/ (mate.py pymates.py): working towards better classes for pymates
16:03 < fenn> people generally take a bit more convincing than that (which you should know by now)
16:03 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * re51c2f20727a /pymates/ (models/peg.yaml rapid-test.py): some danglers that need to be committed
16:04 < kanzure> fenn: what about the technobabble approach? if they want to know what yaml, django, python, OCC, pythonOCC really is, and if they ask, then we tell them,
16:04 < kanzure> but if they honestly don't want to know, then they should trust what we're doing
16:07 < ybit> kanzure: haven't tried scons, might try that if if setup.py is still doing whatever it's doing now tonight
17:08 < kanzure> "we're early adopters for a system that doesn't exist yet"
17:12 < genehacker_vista> how's your cad software coming along?
17:12 < kanzure> skdb?
17:12 < kanzure> it's coming along fine
17:13 < kanzure> I demoed it at the lab meeting this morning
17:13 < kanzure> (in particular I demoed pymates)
17:13 < genehacker_vista> can you extrude from sketch?
17:13 < genehacker_vista> so how could I plot a curve in it?
17:13 < kanzure> skdb uses pythonOCC which are python bindings to OpenCASCADE
17:13 < kanzure> HeeksCAD uses bindings to OpenCASCADE
17:13 < kanzure> you can extrude from a sketch in HeeksCAD
17:14 < kanzure> you can also plot a curve in HeeksCAD (with HeeksPython)
17:14 < kanzure> and then you can export from HeeksCAD to some file format
17:14 < kanzure> which skdb can load up
17:14 < genehacker_vista> let me guess it's text based
17:14 < kanzure> (because skdb is using OpenCASCADE)
17:14 < kanzure> no
17:14 < kanzure> did you see the screenshots?
17:14 < genehacker_vista> really?
17:14 < genehacker_vista> no
17:14 < genehacker_vista> I did not
17:14 < genehacker_vista> your thing?
17:14 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/2009-07-18_bryan_fails_at_matrix_math.png
17:15 < kanzure> also this one
17:15 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/2009-07-19_pymates.png
17:15 < genehacker_vista> text based as in doesn't have a gui
17:15 < kanzure> it does have a GUI
17:15 < bkero> ...
17:15 < bkero> pikachu?
17:15 < kanzure> bkero: yeah i'm a pokemon master
17:15 < bkero> kanzure: I challenge you to a duel.
17:16 < kanzure> gotta catch 'em all
17:16 < ybit> ah finally through with compilation
17:16 < kanzure> my level 100 mewto will beat the shit out of you
17:16 < genehacker_vista> how do you make stuff in it?
17:16 < bkero> My level 101 Missingno will ruin you.
17:16 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: you make stuff in HeeksCAD or some other CAD app for now
17:16 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: and then this will assemble the parts, tell you how to make it, whether they are compatible, etc.
17:16 < ybit> not sure what was taking long earlier but it was installed successfully in ~1min
17:18 < genehacker_vista> who
17:18 < genehacker_vista> wow
17:19 < genehacker_vista> what happens when you have legos that can interlock in many configurations?
17:19 < kanzure> well by the end of the week
17:19 < kanzure> it should just find all of those possibilities
17:19 < kanzure> my idea is to first try just showing this gallery or something
17:19 < kanzure> and then you can arrow through it
17:19 < kanzure> to show the different possible assemblies/mates
17:19 < kanzure> materies
17:20 < genehacker_vista> all the possibilities?
17:20 < kanzure> yes if you have a peg and two holes, the possibilities are a peg in one hole and the other possibility is the peg in the other hole
17:20 < genehacker_vista> why not have the human who design the part specify how the part fits together?
17:20 < kanzure> fits together with what?
17:20 < genehacker_vista> with the other parts
17:21 < kanzure> but that's the beauty of an interface
17:21 < kanzure> you don't have to do that
17:21 < kanzure> that's what the industrial revolution was supposed to be about
17:21 < kanzure> you just say "it's usb"
17:21 < kanzure> and then any usb device works with it basically
17:21 < kanzure> or at least plugs in
17:21 < kanzure> (whether or not it functions correctly is going to take a lot more programming)
17:21 < genehacker_vista> the problem is when you have multiple parts that aren't supposed to interlock
17:22 < kanzure> yeah that's why geometrical specificity is neat
17:22 < kanzure> if it's not meant to go there, don't make it look like that
17:22 < genehacker_vista> is this just to figure out if two parts fit so the program can choose the best fitting part
17:22 < kanzure> but the functional specification stuff comes later
17:22 < kanzure> right now I'm just doing geometry
17:22 < kanzure> no, 
17:22 < genehacker_vista> what if I'm designing modular robots?
17:22 < kanzure> think of it more like "does this make sense or not?"
17:23 < genehacker_vista> ok
17:23 < kanzure> for instance, does a 2 mm diameter shaft fit in a 1 mm diameter hole?
17:23 < kanzure> if not, it's not compatible
17:23 < kanzure> this just checks compatibility
17:23 < kanzure> compatibility isn't necessarily the full story though right
17:23 < genehacker_vista> you might want to add in some does this look right code, for checking if the program hasn't put the thing together wrong
17:23 < fenn> it is, actually, you're just not doing enough dimensions
17:24 < genehacker_vista> IE test if the structure is unstable
17:24 < genehacker_vista> or what not
17:24 < fenn> simulation testing, sure
17:24 < kanzure> but that comes later :)
17:24 < genehacker_vista> though from my experience with simulation testing
17:24 < kanzure> let me struggle with the matrix math first
17:24 < fenn> too much work for not a lot of gain
17:24 < genehacker_vista> IT TAKES A DAMN LONG TIME
17:24 < kanzure> yer doin it wrong
17:24 < fenn> that's why you dont do it until the end
17:24 < fenn> and we'd probably do a low rez version anyway
17:25 < genehacker_vista> if your doing weird nonlinear hyperelastic deformation....
17:25 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: right now the "interfaces" or "ports" aren't rigid and they aren't elastic
17:25 < genehacker_vista> and you don't need automatically designed rubbery stuff now do you?
17:25 < kanzure> but later (maybe you?) will want to define that
17:25 < kanzure> that's the beauty of the YAML file
17:25 < kanzure> it's a really simple spec
17:25 < kanzure> lemme show you
17:26 < kanzure> er, somebody needs to update /var/www/skdb/ on adl
17:26 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: here is the spec
17:26 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/tree/e51c2f20727ab3a0d7f060b6af8b09db4e6c7cbf/pymates/models
17:26 < kanzure> see blockhole.yaml
17:26 < kanzure> and peg.yaml
17:26 < kanzure> and then you see the CAD files right?
17:27 < ybit> kanzure, fenn: either of you have pythonOCC API documentation? http://www.pythonocc.org/ is down so APIREF-wo0.2.zip is unavailable
17:27 < kanzure> it's useless
17:27 < kanzure> just use the OCC docs
17:27 < kanzure> ybit: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/
17:27 < kanzure> the OCC docs aren't much better either >:(
17:27 < fenn> ybit: also bpython or InteractiveInerpreter.py might be useful
17:27 < genehacker_vista> kanzure what about screws
17:28 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: what about them?
17:28 < genehacker_vista> how does your program know which way they are supposed to face?
17:28 < ybit> fenn: InteractiveInterpreter.py == ipython?
17:28 < fenn> ybit: it's in pythonOCC/Tools/ 
17:28 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: there's a unit vector that points in the direction that they should "mate"
17:28 < ybit> ah
17:28 < genehacker_vista> how does it figure that out
17:28 < kanzure> ybit: there's also skdb/shell.py and skdb/pymates/shell.sh (the second one uses ipython)
17:28 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: somebody puts that in the screw definition
17:28 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: and then you download a screw
17:29 < kanzure> the code I'm writing today/tonight checks that unit vector
17:29 < genehacker_vista> IE I have a a table, should the long part of the screw be facing in facing the table or not?
17:29 < kanzure> and aligns them for two parts that are supposed to be mating
17:29 < genehacker_vista> it should be facing into the table
17:30 < kanzure> well I don't know about a table
17:30 < kanzure> how about a bolt and a hole
17:30 < kanzure> the bolt should mate with the hole
17:30 < kanzure> on a table I don't know where to put the screw
17:30 < kanzure> but a bolt clearly goes into a hole, right?
17:30 < genehacker_vista> yeah but how does it decide when there are 2 ways a bolt can go into a hole?
17:31 < genehacker_vista> still I see the use of it
17:31 < kanzure> both of them are possibilities. but get this
17:31 < kanzure> suppose you have a bigger model or something
17:31 < kanzure> and the bolt and a hole/washer are just one part
17:31 < kanzure> if you stick the bolt in one way,
17:31 < kanzure> it intersects with the geometry of the other parts (i.e. solid metal of a giant brick)
17:31 < kanzure> but if you do it the other way, the bolt's head is facing outwards
17:31 < kanzure> so it chooses the one that intersects the least
17:31 < kanzure> or "is the most compatible"
17:31 < genehacker_vista> what if it doesn't interesect both ways?
17:32 < genehacker_vista> hmmm...
17:32 < kanzure> well then they are both valid options.. but why would you have that? :)
17:32 < genehacker_vista> why wouldn't you?
17:32 < kanzure> er, you're talking about flipping a washer upside down?
17:32 < kanzure> because it doesn't matter which side is the top and bottom
17:33 < kanzure> er
17:33 < genehacker_vista> the crew head can be one side of the hole or the other
17:33 < kanzure> what I'm trying to say is that a bolt that intersects a solid chunk of metal is going to be rated as not compatible
17:33 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:33 < genehacker_vista> ---|) or (|---
17:34 < kanzure> if the work piece is 8 ft thick,
17:34 < kanzure> only one of those will work
17:34 < genehacker_vista> so why don't you figure in insertion of bolts
17:34 < kanzure> dunno what you're saying
17:35 < genehacker_vista> after all one configuration might be harder to assemble
17:35 < genehacker_vista> IE reaching under the table
17:35 < kanzure> that's true, but that could be scored later
17:35 < kanzure> there's a way to "score" an assembly as being hard or easy
17:35 < kanzure> and then you obviously take the easy ones if you want easy
17:35 < genehacker_vista> REALLY?
17:35 < kanzure> yeah
17:35 < kanzure> that's what someone is doing in the Automated Design Lab
17:36 < genehacker_vista> ok then problem solved
17:36 < kanzure> but for disassemblies
17:36 < kanzure> (i.e., which way to take it apart)
17:36 < genehacker_vista> good enough
17:36 < genehacker_vista> I guess you could have bolt head on outer surface
17:37 < fenn> graphviz really ought to have a geometry kernel
17:37 < fenn> since it's mechanical engineering and all
17:37 < genehacker_vista> that's another way to settle things
17:37 < fenn> how can you do disassembly without geometry code?
17:37 < kanzure> remember david agu's work?
17:37 < kanzure> he came up with this shitty way of defining constraints on removing things
17:38 < fenn> yeah, i'm just blabbering
17:38 < genehacker_vista> anyway what sort of matrix math are you doing?
17:38 < fenn> the easy kind
17:38 < kanzure> grammars are a really terrible way of doing things because you force the grammar-rule-author to try to force his ideas into the grammar rule format.. which isn't necessarily optimal for the problem domain.
17:38 < genehacker_vista> how is a mate determined?
17:38 < fenn> yeah the "rule" format doesn't really allow for functions with parameters
17:39 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: look at this: http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/e51c2f20727ab3a0d7f060b6af8b09db4e6c7cbf/pymates/models/blockhole.yaml
17:39 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: do you see the part in blue that says "!interface" ? that means that the hole is an interface
17:41 < kanzure> so right now it's very basic for testing purposes,
17:41 < kanzure> it's just a string ("circle") and if it matches it matches..
17:41 < kanzure> but before even that,
17:41 < kanzure> I'm going to do some different algorithms like collision detection
17:41 < kanzure> and volume displacement
17:41 < fenn> shouldnt there be a list "interfaces" of which "hole" is a member?
17:41 < kanzure> to determine whether or not anything is intersecting
17:41 < genehacker_vista> ok
17:41 < kanzure> fenn: no, that's generated at runtime
17:41 < fenn> why?
17:41 < kanzure> fenn: because eventually we don't want "block: !part"
17:42 < kanzure> we'll want "sterling: !engine"
17:42 < genehacker_vista> how do you determine what the negative of cylinder looks like?
17:42 < genehacker_vista> just interested
17:42 < fenn> what if you have five different holes?
17:42 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: oh that just means that you cut a cylinder out of the block
17:42 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: fenn was being picky about what I called it
17:42 < genehacker_vista> you're cutting out a hole?
17:42 < fenn> well you wrote 'circle' anyway it seems
17:43 < kanzure> fenn: do you see why it would be useful to be able to overwrite the "generic" hole interface for a sterling-engine?
17:43 < genehacker_vista> how do you determine the hole is the right size?
17:43 < kanzure> genehacker_vista: collision detection
17:43 < kanzure> but right now I don't do that, I should have that done by the end of the week
17:43 < fenn> kanzure: there's no class inheritance from yaml data
17:43 < kanzure> also volume interference difference metric stuff
17:43 < genehacker_vista> brute force? or somet algorithm that looks at the shape of the hole and the shape of the peg?
17:44 < genehacker_vista> if difference between matrices = zero then peg goes there?
17:45 < kanzure> meh not really
17:45 < genehacker_vista> why?
17:45 < genehacker_vista> wouldn't that be more optimal?
17:46 < kanzure> I don't know how to do that
17:46 < genehacker_vista> what?
17:46 < kanzure> class MySterlingEngine(SterlingEngine):
17:47 < genehacker_vista> program looks for parts labelled circle with the same or large radius as the circular part of the peg's
17:48 < genehacker_vista> hmmm...
17:49 < kanzure> the reason why I do not have a list of interfaces in the file is because that is generated at runtime
17:49 < kanzure> i.e., every attribute that is of type 'interface' is added to the list called "interfaces"
17:49 < genehacker_vista> ok
17:49 < kanzure> sorry that was for fenn :p
17:49 < fenn> but why not just write the list in yaml with entries tagged !interface
17:50 < kanzure> because it's lame to type
17:50 < kanzure> interfaces:
17:50 < kanzure>   hole: !interface
17:50 < genehacker_vista> !interface is not the part that interfaces?
17:50 < fenn> you actually type less because there's no name (necessarily)
17:50 < fenn> - !interface
17:50 < kanzure> why wouldn't you name it?
17:50 < fenn>   geometry: foo
17:50 < fenn>   name: hole
17:50 < kanzure> having a name tag is lame
17:51 < kanzure> er, name line
17:51 < kanzure> name attribute
17:51 < kanzure> there we go
17:51 < fenn> a mapping key is only useful if it's the same every time
17:51 < kanzure> we can just sniff for the tag
17:51 < kanzure> it's not a big deal
17:51 < kanzure> it already works, fenn
17:51 < fenn> if your key is hole1234: how are you going to know what the key is
17:51 < kanzure> we already went over this
17:52 < fenn> but you dont have to sniff for the tag
17:52 < kanzure> but I already am
17:52 < kanzure> and it works
17:52 < fenn> you only have one interface
17:52 < kanzure> so?
17:52 < fenn> that's barely testing even one edge case
17:52 < fenn> what if you have zero interfaces?
17:52 < fenn> or a variable number?
17:52 < kanzure> what about "what if you.." are you asking?
17:52 < genehacker_vista> what happens why I have multiple of the same part?
17:53 < fenn> (those are examples of edge cases)
17:53 < kanzure> edge cases to.. what?
17:53 < kanzure> what are you expecting to break?
17:53 < genehacker_vista> why change to when
17:53 < fenn> your code :P
17:53 < kanzure> ..
17:53 < fenn> i'm expecting whatever code does stuff with interfaces to break when it doesnt know what the interfaces are called
17:53 < kanzure> but it does know what the interfaces are called
17:54 < kanzure> it just looks in the interfaces list
17:54 < genehacker_vista> hmmmm... I think I have some parts that could crash your code
17:54 < fenn> but THERE IS NO INTERFACES LIST
17:54 < kanzure> yes there is :)
17:54 < kanzure> bwahah
17:54 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/e51c2f20727ab3a0d7f060b6af8b09db4e6c7cbf/pymates/pymates.py
17:55 < kanzure> line 64
17:55 < kanzure> line 73
17:56 < kanzure> line 69 too
17:58 < ybit> def __setstate__(self, attrs):
17:58 < ybit>  73                     self.interfaces[k] = v
17:58 < ybit>  69                 v.name = k
18:01 < kanzure> thanks ybit :p
18:02 < ybit> it's what i do :)
18:02 < kanzure> every interface should have a name
18:03 < kanzure> I'm prepared to enforce this. :p
18:05 < kanzure> todo: pymates without OCC requirements
18:05 < drazak> I think I put a half microlitre bovine serum into our diluted dna
18:05 < drazak> :S
18:05 < kanzure> litre eh
18:05 < kanzure> european elitist..
18:06 < drazak> well, it was diluted into 100 microlitres
18:06 < drazak> it's just easiest to type
18:06 < drazak> tre is in a row, ter isn't
18:06 < kanzure> t,e,r are both on the same row
18:07 < CIA-73> skdb: fenn * re0bfe2033682 /pymates/ (models/blockhole.yaml models/peg.yaml pymates.py): put interfaces in a list instead of random mapping nodes, remove unnecessary yaml hack
18:07 < drazak> they're right next to eachother sequentually from right to left
18:07 < fenn> ok please test and see if it actually works
18:07 < drazak> so I don't have to do a double more
18:07 < drazak> s/more/move/
18:07 < kanzure> I refuse to be your guinnea pig!
18:09 < kanzure> line 120 faisl
18:09 < kanzure> fails
18:10 < CIA-73> skdb: fenn * r255bc7e4db39 /pymates/models/blockhole.yaml: typo
18:10 < kanzure> er, because of the typo I guess
18:11 < fenn> does part.interfaces ever actually get used?
18:12 < fenn> nevermind i see it
18:13 < fenn> i guess you could build a dict which just has keys as the names of the interfaces
18:13 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * rda5637bfc43a /pymates/ (mate.py pymates.py): make fenn's changes not break everything
18:15 < fenn> looking better already :)
18:16 < kanzure> is there a cruft-o-vision mode for diff?
18:16 < kanzure> something that will highlight code with colors indicating how old the code is
18:16 < kanzure> compared to other code or something
18:16 < kanzure> so newly committed stuff is brighter or something
18:16 < fenn> hmm.. cvs had something called 'annotated view'
18:16 < kanzure> or maybe that should be the other way around
18:17 < fenn> "With the command cvs annotate, CVS offers the possibility to see - for each line in a file - who has modified a line the most recently. This view may be helpful in order to find out who has introduced a change in the behavior of a program or who should be asked about some change or bug in the code. "
18:17 < kanzure> github has a "blame" page which displays the output of git-blame but in color
18:18  * fenn fires up the pig
18:18 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blame/e51c2f20727ab3a0d7f060b6af8b09db4e6c7cbf/pymates/pymates.py
18:18 < kanzure> what they need are some lines on the side indicating which one was related to which other commit
18:19 < kanzure> for instance if something was committed twice but the first one was more important, t
18:19 < kanzure> then it should show a line to the other place in the file that was updated at the same time
18:19 < kanzure> or something
18:19 < fenn> i'd like to see a 'number of other functions would break if you modify this line'
18:19 < fenn> but then you'd need complete code coverage
18:19 < kanzure> just run your unit tests
18:20 < fenn> but the computer should be able to do that
18:21 -!- genehacker [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:21 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * rdcc47d7da403 /pymates/ (assembly.py mate.py pymates.py): rename mate->assembly
18:24 -!- genehacker_vista [i=genehack@w-central-233-27.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:42 < ybit> it was DRAWEXE i was looking for earlier
18:43 < ybit> was in /usr/local/bin
18:47 < kanzure> can someone remind me why I'm doing part mating and compatibility
18:48 < ybit> because you plan on including it in skdb
18:48 < ybit> and i'm guessing fenn is too
18:50 < ybit> something infrastructure and advancing h+
18:50 < ybit> +about
19:00 < kanzure> sounds kinda vague
19:00 < ybit> and your point?
19:01 < kanzure> does anyone know why I am doing this?
19:01 < ybit> what are you getting @ eactly?
19:02 < kanzure> that I forgot why I'm doing this
19:02 < ybit> you never plainly said why
19:02 < ybit> you just kind of started
19:02 < ybit> probably due to something you read in a paper
19:02 < kanzure> nope, not that
19:03 < ybit> argh, git add . shouldn't take this long
19:22  * ybit wants a central repo for all cad files
19:22 < kanzure> welcome to skdb
19:23 < kanzure> why are you not committing yet?
19:23 < kanzure> don't you have an account on the server?
19:23 < ybit> yeah
19:23 < kanzure> so you don't love me anymore :(
19:23 < ybit> :P
19:23 < kanzure> ok I figured it out
19:23 < kanzure> I was doing it so that I could search for compatible parts
19:23 < kanzure> "oh I seem to have this. now what?"
19:23 < ybit> i'm getting there, patience young padawan
19:24 < ybit> i've just now cut my hours in half so i can get to it 
19:24 < ybit> i'm working on a few other thingies right now
19:26 < ybit> wasn't there an entre repo of iges cad files some gov agency is holding?
19:26 < ybit> s/an entre/a
19:26  * ybit greps
19:27 < kanzure> yes
19:27 < kanzure> dexler
19:27 < ybit> drexler*
19:28 < ybit> i prefer the skdb name to tangible bit
19:28 < ybit> in acronym form, it's shorter which is great for subdomains :)
19:29 < ybit> and "societal engineering knowledge database" gets to the point of what it actually is
19:29 < kanzure> nobody understands it anyway
19:30 < QuantumG> translate it to russian before you make the acronym
19:30 < ybit> free hardware package management system, what's not to know
19:30 < kanzure> that's a better name for it
19:30 < ybit> Phreedom, you're needed
19:30 < ybit> Phreedom is sleeping
19:30 < kanzure> "fhpack" for free hardware pack?
19:30 < Phreedom> ybit: eh?
19:30 < kanzure> what's up?
19:30 < drazak> got to use some nice restriction enzymes today
19:30 < QuantumG> I was actually thinking the other day that a package management system for cooking would be more fun
19:31 < Phreedom> not yet sleeping
19:31 < drazak> did some work with embilical cord stem cells
19:31  * ybit didn't mean to wake you up Phreedom :P
19:31 < drazak> HUVECS
19:31 < kanzure> QuantumG: that's what this includes though
19:33 < Phreedom> ybit: what did you want me to do? I'm really going to fall asleep and nobody would wake me up
19:33 < ybit> Phreedom: 19:26 < ybit> i prefer the skdb name to tangible bit
19:33 < ybit> 19:26 < ybit> in acronym form, it's shorter which is great for subdomains :)
19:33 < ybit> 19:26 < ybit> and "societal engineering knowledge database" gets to the point of what it  actually is
19:33 < ybit> 19:27 < kanzure> nobody understands it anyway
19:33 < ybit> 19:27 < QuantumG> translate it to russian before you make the acronym
19:34 < ybit> 19:27 < ybit> Phreedom, you're needed
19:34 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone
19:34 < Phreedom> so you're asking if the acronym translated to russian sounds like some curse word?
19:34 < ybit> probably
19:35 < Phreedom> unf in russian everything can be made to resemble a curse word if you try hard enough
19:35 < Phreedom> but it doesn't evoke any direct associations which is good enough IMO
19:35 < ybit> okay you sleep now ;)
19:36 < ybit> +can
19:36 < Phreedom> I didn't really ask for a permission :P
19:36 < ybit> just in case :)
19:36 < fenn> ybit: you were asking about some giant gov repository: http://edge.cs.drexel.edu/repository/data/repository/
19:37 < fenn> "national design repository"
19:37 < ybit> ah,right, this is where lego came into play
19:37 < ybit> iirc
19:37  * Phreedom too went straight to lego :)
19:37 < drazak> anyone know any shit about the 293FT cell line?
19:38 < Phreedom> ybit:  too many kids in this channel I guess :)
19:38 < kanzure> "In an historic move, Microsoft Monday submitted driver source code for inclusion in the Linux kernel under a GPLv2 license. The code consists of four drivers that are part of a technology called Linux Device Driver for Virtualization."
19:38 < Phreedom> old news
19:38 < Phreedom> and no it's not very useful :)
19:38 < Phreedom> but it's only a matter of time util they bend over
19:38 < Phreedom> *until
19:53 < kanzure> fenn: todo: think about improving sproutwards or something.
19:53 < kanzure> maybe a djangit plugin for keeping track of incoming inventory to HQ
19:53 < kanzure> jata is going to buying a lot of stuff, but we need to keep track of it
19:54 < kanzure> she's officially "the retrieval man" (she even gets a cape)
19:54 < kanzure> maybe USPS number tracking
19:54 < kanzure> and a bug/feature tracker in general that she can browse through to kick out particular items or something
19:54 < kanzure> it's hard to figure out what to buy versus what to build
19:55 < kanzure> I think though that SU8+PDMS photolithography setups would be worth buying (since it's not a single commodity package- we just need to buy the materials and go find some bins)
20:13 < fenn> what is sproutwards supposed to do?
20:13 < kanzure> fablab management. it's based off of the original nublabs codebase.
20:15 < fenn> good for warding off sprouts
20:16 < kanzure> maybe org-mode could help me
20:18 < kanzure> fenn: where's that electronics inventory for IU?
20:20  * fenn twiddles his thumbs
20:20 < kanzure> you're not twiddling, damn it
20:21 < ybit> twiddle harder!
20:21 < kanzure> damn right he should twiddle harder
20:21 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/roboclub/wishlist
20:22 < kanzure> commit to skdb?
20:22 < fenn> sure
20:22 < fenn> want me to do it?
20:22 < kanzure> yes
20:25 < fenn> i came up with a yaml format for receipts (you may have seen me entering some)
20:26 < fenn> there's not much difference between a wishlist and a receipt
20:27 < fenn> i dont think this list is really complete enough to just say 'have at it'
20:28 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:34 < fenn> i think we'd have to write scripts, one for each site, to convert their receipt format to some standardized format (like receipts.yaml)
20:34 < kanzure> each site?
20:34 < kanzure> okay, that's fine
20:35 < fenn> or do it manually if that's a pain
20:35 < fenn> but it seems like for common sites it wouldbe worth it
20:35 < kanzure> no I think that the number of vendors tends to saturate
20:36 < kanzure> er, to stabilize
20:36 < kanzure> I think a receipt should be "tagged" as satisfying a particular inventory-request or something
20:36 < fenn> what if it combines multiple random stuffs
20:37 < kanzure> each individual item should be tagged as solving some particular request
20:37 < fenn> hmmm.
20:37 < fenn> i was thinking each item in inventory would have an 'allocation' status
20:37 < kanzure> this may not be the same thing as inventory actually
20:37 < kanzure> since the receipts and ordering is only casually informed by inventory
20:38 < kanzure> so when inventory is low, you order (or whatever)
20:38 < kanzure> but in this case we're bootstrapping
20:38 < fenn> but inventory data has to come from somewhere
20:38 < fenn> shouldnt that be when you are ordering (and then a little bit at the end when you get it)
20:38 < kanzure> maybe we should do as you suggested- and turn the trans-tech.yaml file into some skdb packages with a barebones skeleton
20:38 < kanzure> and then slowly fill it in
20:38 < kanzure> and the idea would be that anything that is not in the local inventory
20:39 < kanzure> then becomes a request
20:39 < kanzure> which an order and a receipt will eventually fulfill
20:39 < kanzure> I guess we're assuming that we're building some of those skdb packages on site (which, of course, we are)
20:42  * fenn requisitions an aircraft carrier
20:42 < kanzure> heh how'd that one get through
20:43 < fenn> but seriously; at what step do we filter out what we're actually doing vs what is merely possible
20:43 < kanzure> we should be creating the packages as we go
20:43 < kanzure> and testing them
20:43 < kanzure> so that we don't publish anything stupid
20:44 < fenn> skdb is useful because it lets you know what order to do things
20:44 < fenn> but it can only do that if you have complete package specifications
20:44 < kanzure> right, so we need to make it as we go
20:44 < fenn> so you have to make the packages first
20:44 < kanzure> remember, skdb doesn't make something possible- it makes it easier
20:44 < kanzure> right
20:44 < kanzure> so we just need to make the packages the old fashion way
20:44 < fenn> first != as you go
20:44 < kanzure> huh?
20:45 < kanzure> we're not going to just spontaneously know everything about SU8/PDMS
20:45 < fenn> well, ok
20:45 < kanzure> but we do know what sort of basic ingredients we're going to need
20:45 < ybit> i propose another name change: s/djangit/djankit because it has the k from 'wiki' and mostly because it's a lot easier to make perverted jokes with it
20:45 < fenn> -_-
20:45 < kanzure> fenn: if we were to be committing a package as it grows and improves,
20:46 < fenn> ybit: apparently name changes are harder than i thought
20:46 < kanzure> would we commit that to skdb, or would we have a separate repo?
20:46 < kanzure> maybe skdb/packages or something
20:46 < fenn> kanzure: i think a separate repo, but it would still depend on skdb code
20:46 < fenn> at this stage it doesnt really matter
20:47 < kanzure> huh wonder if I can get part mating down well enough to do it for the equipment assemblies required for PDMS (ok, there's not much.. maybe something to hold a lense. big friggin' deal)
20:51 < ybit> but srsly, i do like djankit better
20:52 < ybit> probably not going to change the name, but here's to adding more noise on irc
20:52 < fenn> ybit: a wiki is a rev ctrl system with a pretty front end; django maps backends to pretty front ends (ew) so therefore git + django = wiki-like thing
20:53 < ybit> the frontend will probably be a wiki
20:54 < fenn> what do you mean "be a wiki"?
20:54 < ybit> it will be a rev ctrl system witha pretty front end, as you say
20:54 < fenn> the front end will be a rev ctrl system with a front end?
20:54 < ybit> to be == to exist
20:54 < fenn> stack overflow
20:55 < ybit> :P
20:57 < ybit> i really wasn't up for yet another git based wiki, but i suppose i should contribute to djangit
20:57 < ybit> mostly because i like python
20:58 < ybit> time for bed
20:59 < fenn> a git plugin for dokuwiki would do fine for 90% of stuff
20:59 < ybit> what's the other 10%
20:59 < fenn> but i think we're going to be doing a lot of different experimental views of datasets
21:00 < fenn> like dependency graphs based on the data in the wiki pages (package metadata)
21:00 < fenn> or automatically generated renderings of cad geometry
21:50 < fenn> inner beauty = what you see through a laparoscope
21:51 < kanzure> can this be tested?
21:51 < fenn> i wonder if futurama "on the moon" episode was today on purpose (anniversary of apollo 11)
22:02 < kanzure> jata is getting a reprap
22:03 < kanzure> apparently a friend is printing the parts for her
22:07 < kanzure> http://code.google.com/p/django-inventory/
22:08 < kanzure> ew, very database heavy
22:08 < kanzure> I just want some classes and methods
22:08 < kanzure> http://code.google.com/p/loaning-logging/
22:09 < kanzure> ew
22:09 < kanzure> yaml inventory
22:09 < kanzure> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.debian%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&num=100&q=yaml+inventory&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
22:09 < kanzure> first result: Basic perfusion inventory list - DIYbio | Google Groups
22:10 < fenn> maybe i should write a paper about it
22:10 < drazak> kanzure: remember that microfluidics paper you showed me on dna aseembly using PCA?
22:10 < drazak> that paper sucked at explaining it
22:10 < drazak> whereas wikipedia made me understand it right away
22:10 < kanzure> yeah
22:10 < kanzure> which article in particular?
22:11 < drazak> I'm not sure
22:11 < kanzure> heh I like how google has indexed http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/inventory/comparison/fablab.yaml
22:11 < drazak> it had an image
22:11 < drazak> of dna fragments
22:12 < drazak> except it explained it in a very weirdwas,they just said that they came together in the same conditions as pcr
22:12 < drazak> instead of saying that they're fragments alternating sense and antisense with short overlapping fragments
22:13 < kanzure> fenn: let's make an equivalent of /var/log/dpkg.log eventually
22:14 < fenn> what does that do?
22:14 < kanzure> it's a log of things added to the localhost
22:14 < kanzure> as well as packages removed
22:14 < kanzure> there's another one for dpkg to search through.. but I forget where it is located
22:15 < fenn> it doesnt look like dpkg actually uses it (not nearly long enouh)
22:15 < fenn> dunno where the actual "database" is that apt-get refers to
22:15 < kanzure> I've had to fix it a few times by manually editing it
22:15 < kanzure> especially when things get really fucked up
22:16 < kanzure> ah it's /var/backups/dpkg.status.0
22:16 < drazak> you guys will be glad to know, I was in BSL2 today
22:16 < kanzure> you're not a real man until you have to invent your own biosafety level classification
22:17 < drazak> rofl
22:17 < drazak> then  there are like
22:17 < drazak> 8 real men
22:17 < kanzure> fenn: /var/backups/dpkg.status.0 sucks a lot
22:17 < fenn> i thought it only went up to BSL4
22:18 < drazak> fenn: well I was including somesecial ones
22:22 < drazak> can one of you suggest an alarm clock for linux?
22:22 < kanzure> what the hell?
22:22 < kanzure> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/AstronautAssignmentsChart.PNG
22:36 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * r14fbe5d9f9df /trans-tech.yaml: er, corrected some requirement issues
22:44 < kanzure> fenn: could you randomly hack out a receipt class or something?
22:55 < CIA-73> skdb: fenn * re81350f399cc /inventory/receipt-schema.yaml: something
22:55 < CIA-73> skdb: fenn * r496d93b8065b / (4 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of adl.serveftp.org:/var/www/skdb
22:56 < fenn> or look at the other schema stuff in that dir