--- Day changed Tue Jul 21 2009
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03:55 < genehacker> biosafety level 5:  hot agent is known to degrade seals
03:56 < genehacker> biosafety level 6: hot agent is uncharacterized and could cause irreparable environmental damage if released
04:51 < kanzure> biosafety level 7: hot agent is human.
04:56 < genehacker> heh
04:56 < genehacker> now all you have to do is implant that DNA synthesizer....
04:57 < genehacker> I wonder if you'd be able to fly on airplanes if you were a cyborg
04:58 < QuantumG> steve mann wasn't
04:58 < QuantumG> of course, some say he just went to the airport to cause a scene
05:01 < genehacker> huh?
05:02 < genehacker> he wasn't allowed to fly?
05:02 < genehacker> CYBORGS ARE HUMANS TOO!
05:03 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * r2d0c097723d6 /inventory/receipt-schema.yaml: more attributes
05:03 < kanzure> oh didn't even see schema.yaml
05:04 < kanzure> my changes might be redundant
05:06 < genehacker> kanzure mind linking me to some documentation on how generate parts for that cad system of yours?
05:07 < CIA-73> skdb: kanzure * r67b893d35142 /inventory/schema.yaml: need to know the vendor name
05:07 < kanzure> genehacker: one second
05:07 < genehacker> I'd sorta like to make a rolamite bearing part generator
05:08 < kanzure> you see the files in here? http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/pymates/models/
05:08 < kanzure> check out blockhole.yaml
05:08 < kanzure> every part nees to have a part.yaml file too
05:08 < kanzure> and then also a part.step file (the CAD file)
05:09 < kanzure> and it needs to generally follow the pattern shown here:
05:09 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/pymates/models/blockhole.yaml
05:09 < kanzure> or here: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/pymates/models/peg.yaml
05:09  * kanzure sleeps
05:09 < genehacker> I think I'll do the same
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07:43 < kanzure> fab@home http://groups.google.com/group/fabathome-forums
07:43 < kanzure> reprap-michigan http://groups.google.com/group/reprap-michigan
07:43 < kanzure> reprap-chicago http://groups.google.com/group/chicago-reprap
07:43 < kanzure> reprap-bay-area http://groups.google.com/group/bay-area-reprap
07:43 < kanzure> reprap-brisbane http://groups.google.com/group/reprap-brisbane
08:11 < kanzure> huh youtube is down
08:18 < kanzure> python wrapper to amazon: http://pyaws.sourceforge.net/
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09:39 < kanzure> hey samrose
09:39 < kanzure> samrose: what are you doing december 5th?
09:43 < samrose> haha, not to sure kanzure
09:43 < samrose> what should I be doing? :)
09:46 < kanzure> samrose: fenn and I are running a session on hardware package management at hplus summit, and we were asked who should be on the panel with us
09:46 < kanzure> I mentioned Smari and a few others, and then totally forgot about you
09:47 < kanzure> huh pywordnet is too old and expects wordnet2.0? debian testing has wordnet3.0 :p
09:47 < Smari> hmm
09:47 < Smari> when is that summit and where?
09:47 < kanzure> chicago, december 5th
09:47 < kanzure> transportation may be provided.. maybe.
09:47 < Smari> Interesting.
09:48 < kanzure> Smari: didn't you get the email?
09:49 < samrose> kanzure, that would be great! I will double check my email
09:49 < kanzure> samrose: you didn't get the email, sorry
09:50 < kanzure> that's why I said I totally forgot about you
09:50 < samrose> ok, well, thanks for thinking about me
09:50 < samrose> maybe between now and then, I can get some contributions into this thing too
09:50 < kanzure> heh would you be interested?
09:50 < kanzure> that would be nice
09:50 < samrose> certainly
09:51 < samrose> I would be interested
09:51 < kanzure> it's kind of a panel on "industrial literacy and how to be a badass"
09:51 < samrose> we have some real-world implementations that would likely offer funding based on technology centered around local food systems, and urban agriculture
09:51 < samrose> so, that could be a place to start for me
09:52 < kanzure> the conference is mainly about transhumanism
09:52 < samrose> I see
09:52 < kanzure> however the topics overlap a lot I guess
09:52 < fenn> so smari that means the typical doom and gloom speech probably wouldnt go over too well
09:53 < fenn> because everyone's sick of hearing it 
09:53 < samrose> well, I am interested in transhumanism in some ways,  so am definitely interested
09:53 < kanzure> yeah the transhumanist groups already sit around with their tail between their asses
09:53 < kanzure> and don't want to do anything about it. so this is changing.
09:55 < samrose> well, I am already contributing to writing a kind of transhumanist book that basically asks what it will look like when we get beyond basic physiological and psychological survival
09:55 < samrose> we are applying this to economics and technology development
09:55 < kanzure> meh
09:55 < kanzure> are you doing any hardware building these days?
09:55 < samrose> mostly in crumbling urban settings like Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh
09:55 < samrose> yes
09:56 < samrose> hardware based around food production
09:56 < samrose> urban agriculture
09:56 < Smari> kanzure, I don't think I did.
09:56 < samrose> hardware that assists living machines
09:56 < kanzure> Smari: do you check your anarchism.is account?
09:56 < samrose> and some related stuff
09:56 < Smari> kanzure, I do.
09:57 < fenn> subject: "Mutual introductions"
09:57 < Smari> kanzure, but I'm behind on mailing list mail.
09:57 < Smari> was it personal mail?
09:57 < fenn> not like the email said much anyway
09:57 < kanzure> Smari: yes it was personal mail
09:57 < kanzure> the email didn't say much, that's true
09:57 < Smari> in that case I didn't get it.
09:58 < fenn> it was sent to smarimc@gmail.com
09:58 < Smari> oh that would be why.
09:58 < Smari> I don't read that.
09:58 < kanzure> ok resent
09:58 < kanzure> ah, nice to know
09:58 < kanzure> sent it to both
09:59 < kanzure> tuition is due august 12th
09:59 < kanzure> hopefully jata will fly us up there before then
09:59 < Smari> I reply to my name at @anarchism.is, @fabfolk.com,
10:00 < kanzure> I'll try to remember that.
10:00 < samrose> brb
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10:00 < Smari> fenn, I don't do "gloom and doom". I do "humanity has a choice, if we make the wrong one we're screwed, here's my idea of what the right one might look like."
10:00 < fenn> oh, good
10:01 < kanzure> the existential risk community is saturated
10:01 < kanzure> they already think they are at the top of their game
10:01 < Smari> haha
10:01 < kanzure> they were completely unwilling to listen to me because manufacturing is unreasonable or something
10:02 < kanzure> maybe it would be different for you
10:02 < Smari> existential risk folks annoy me too.
10:02 < Smari> they're severe doomsayers.
10:02 < kanzure> right and that's what this community is about right now
10:02 < kanzure> and we're trying to change that
10:02 < Smari> and won't be told that doom can be averted, because that means they're out of a job.
10:03 < fenn> that's why any reasonable plan of action involves dismantling the global employee state we've got going
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10:09 < samrose> I would like to start documenting the food production hardware projects with skdb. I realize that we are not there yet, but I think one way to get there is to make it easy for people to put info into their own project files. 
10:09 < kanzure> okay
10:09 < samrose> do you see what I am saying?
10:09 < kanzure> yeah of course
10:09 < kanzure> I think it's great that you want to do that
10:10 < kanzure> and I think you should maybe write up a yaml file for a basic food production hardware project that follows the basic format we have introduced in the git repo
10:10 < samrose> actually, if I or we make a way that people can generate this meta data, it could make the process extremely easy
10:10 < kanzure> like "autoproject"? yeah
10:10 < samrose> sure
10:10 < kanzure> but first we need to know the structure
10:10 < kanzure> so right now it's kind of hard
10:10 < kanzure> because we have to do it manually
10:10 < kanzure> but eventually maybe we won't have to
10:10 < samrose> yes, if there was a standard for project files, then it could autogenerate the yaml
10:11 < fenn> not really
10:11 < samrose> and, this would boost uptake by other users
10:11 < fenn> you would still have to fill out most of it by hand
10:11 < fenn> but having templates would be nice
10:11 < kanzure> the program would just ask you questions or something
10:11 < kanzure> which is kind of pointless if you know how to type it yourself
10:11  * fenn waves his hands in the and sprinkles pixie dust
10:11 < samrose> well, you could have something that could get you 80% of the way there
10:11 < kanzure> samrose: I think you should start by trying to come up with a valid yaml file that represents the hardware package
10:12 < samrose> sure, that is fine
10:12 < kanzure> feel free to clone the repo and commit something, and I'll take a looksie and see if it's valid
10:12 < fenn> look at screw.yaml
10:12 < samrose> sure
10:12 < kanzure> fenn: didn't screw.yaml get screwed a bit?
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10:12 < kanzure> it used to be longer
10:12 < kanzure> hello Whickety-Whack 
10:12 < Whickety-Whack> Hello, kanzure.
10:13 < samrose> but, typing shit out by hand is not how I usually operate, and I disagree that you'd be forced to type this out all by hand no matter what
10:13 < fenn> yes it used to have stuff about head, material, finish.. but that's irrelevant
10:13 < Whickety-Whack> Just here to listen and learn, for the time being. A closed mouth gathers no feet, etc.
10:13 < fenn> samrose: the data has to come from somewhere
10:13 < samrose> fenn obviously
10:14 < kanzure> fenn: don't you know it comes from the data integration entity? god. you're so stupid.
10:14 < kanzure> :p
10:14 < fenn> you've got it all backwards
10:14 < fenn> it all comes from Our Lady Eris
10:15 < samrose> what I am saying is that if I make something at least partially from existing plans and specs, that I can figure out a way to generate data from that
10:15 < kanzure> hm how do I get from a OCC.TopoDS.TopoDS_Shape to an OCC.AIS.Handle_AIS_Shape?
10:17 < samrose> for instance, if I make a device that combines arduino with a case and components that I make in a CAD program, I now have data before I start typing out YAML
10:17 < kanzure> I think you should look at what we have already.
10:17 < samrose> kanzure have done so
10:17 < kanzure> the "case" and "components" should be in skdb to begin with
10:18 < samrose> you are missing what I am saying
10:18 < samrose> if I have a case and components that are in some data format, I can write scripts that transform that into SKDB YAML
10:19 < samrose> how many designs and specs currently exist in digital form?
10:19 < kanzure> they don't..
10:19 < kanzure> it's usually just CAD models
10:19 < samrose> sure they do
10:19 < kanzure> but not any metadata
10:19 < kanzure> where?
10:19 < kanzure> I'd like to see those files.. really. I just haven't found them yet.,
10:19 < samrose> CAD models can be used to create metadata
10:19 < samrose> CAD models have a data mode
10:19 < samrose> l
10:19 < kanzure> well I've never seen HeeksCAD or BRLCAD show me this information
10:19 < CIA-44> skdb:  * rfdf00f47b631 /screw.yaml: i guess this ought to use normal tags if it's going to be an example file
10:19 < CIA-44> skdb:  * r323e29742fbe / (21 files in 5 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb
10:19 < kanzure> or even if its existence
10:19 < kanzure> *of its existence
10:20 < samrose> you are still misunderstand
10:20 < samrose> ing
10:20 < fenn> samrose: "some data format" is what exactly?
10:20 < samrose> any
10:20 < samrose> it doesn't matter
10:20 < fenn> STL doesnt say anything about where to get documentation
10:20 < fenn> it's just triangles
10:21 < kanzure> have you ever looked at these files? heh'
10:21 < samrose> how does the program know where the triangles should be placed?
10:21 < fenn> there is some fancy PDM stuff but i have no idea how to read or write those formats, or what the concepts mean even
10:21 < samrose> ok, what I am saying is that is not a problem for me
10:22 < kanzure> I'd like some examples.
10:22 < samrose> they mean something
10:22 < kanzure> do you have any PDM files?
10:22 < samrose> what you mean you'd like some examples?
10:22 < kanzure> I think you're bullshitting
10:22 < kanzure> but I would love to be wrong
10:22 < kanzure> so I'd like some files to play with
10:22 < fenn> somehow i doubt you have access to ISO documents describing STEP PDM formats
10:22 < kanzure> that has this information supposedly in it
10:22 < samrose> Do you have some CAD files?
10:22 < fenn> about 70,000 of them
10:23 < samrose> ok, what is in those files?
10:23 < kanzure> lots of points
10:23 < kanzure> STEP, IGES, etc.
10:23 < fenn> i can only read a couple thousand of them
10:23 < samrose> How does the cad program know what to do with them?
10:23 < kanzure> it doesn't..
10:24 < fenn> there's no "cad program" in the first place
10:24 < fenn> i'm using OCC to parse the STEP AP203/214 and display the resulting geometry
10:24 < fenn> i dont even know if the files contain other AP's
10:24 < samrose> Then OCC is the lib that is part of the transformation to create metadata
10:24 < kanzure> do you know what metadata is
10:25 < fenn> no, OCC only does AP203/214 which is pure geometry
10:25 < samrose> ok, fuck this
10:25 < fenn> i wish the world were a cleaner, more transparent place
10:26 < fenn> but as it is we have to deal with closed standards and dig through the dregs of defunct government projects
10:27 < kanzure> so I'm confused. 
10:28 < fenn> some of the stuff in screw.yaml is metadata; other stuff is data
10:29 < fenn> everything down to 'screw:' is metadata
10:29 < fenn> the rest i'm not sure about; is "!screw" data or metadata?
10:30 < fenn> it's just a type statement
10:30 < kanzure> so it doesn't seem I can get an OCC.AIS.Handle_AIS_Shape from this: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/ModelingData/html/classTopoDS__Shape.html
10:32 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/Visualization/html/classAIS__Shape.html
10:32 < kanzure> oh actually
10:33 < kanzure> AIS_Shape.Set(TopoDS_Shape)
10:33 < kanzure> "Constructs an instance of the shape object ashape. "
10:33 < kanzure> I'm rewriting the way I do transformations
10:34 < kanzure> er wait, I need to go the other way around. huh..
10:35 < kanzure> self.shapes = my_step_importer.GetShapes()
10:35 < kanzure> that's not really useful if that just returns the AIS handler..
10:35 < kanzure> what about the TopoDS_Shape from a STEP file?
10:37 < CIA-44> skdb:  * rb8e4f09c9932 / (occ_shell.py shell.py): rename to be less ambiguous
10:37 < kanzure> oh GetShapes() returns TopoDS_Shape. great.
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10:38 < kanzure> how sad. I already implemented this. :( part.shapes 
10:39 < fenn> a tragedy
10:44 < kanzure> which one is the typo?
10:44 < kanzure> http://www.opencascade.org/org/forum/thread_9860/
10:44 < kanzure> trsf or trf?
10:44 < kanzure> oh tsf is the variable name
10:48 < Smari> have replied.
10:52 < kanzure> thanks
10:52 < kanzure> just saw it
10:52 < kanzure> fenn: jata wants to move it back to aug 1/2. here deadline is the 12th for whether or not we're going to be moving up there.
10:53 < kanzure> or, at least, the deadline for me
10:53 < kanzure> for you it's probably open ended
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10:56 < Smari> Yay, everything is coming together.
10:57 < Smari> Two conferences confirmed, two possible ones hinging on the question of funding... 
10:57 < kanzure> fenn: campbell said that if I take the cross product between o_n_vec and o_vx_vec, that I should put the resulting vector in the middle of the four by four matrix. but there is no middle to four..
10:57 < Smari> Getting a visa for Afghanistan is alarmingly difficult, even the second time around.
11:06 < kanzure> does the cross product of the normal vector and the vx vector go into the third column of the 4x4 matrix?
11:07 < genehacker> please wait while I parse my knowledge of vector algebra
11:08 < fenn> the second column i think
11:08 < kanzure> campbell explicitly said that the second column is the missing vy_vec
11:08 < fenn> right
11:08 < kanzure> so the cross product of the normal vector and the vx vector is the vy_vector? 
11:08 < fenn> yep
11:08 < kanzure> well then.
11:09 < kanzure> the notes are kind of weird then
11:09 < kanzure> because it says "now find the vy_vec" *after* I do the cross product
11:09 < fenn> well there's probably some crap about normalization
11:10 < kanzure> Smari: what conferences in particular?
11:10 < kanzure> samrose: did you die?
11:10 < samrose> on a call
11:11 < Smari> FAB5 (5th Symposium on Digital Fabrication), FSCONS (Nordic Free Society and Software conference), Reykjavík Digital Freedoms Conference, and then the H+ Summit.
11:11 < Smari> FAB5 and H+ being the maybes.
11:11 < kanzure> fun lineup
11:11 < kanzure> hope you can get some work done
11:11 < Smari> FAB5 is 20 days from now, so either I get a plane ticket to Mumbai or not. :)
11:11 < fenn> india vs chicago, i know which one i'd pick
11:11 < Smari> fenn, which?
11:12 < Smari> I choose both, if funding is available.
11:12 < fenn> india
11:12 < Smari> During monsoon season? You're crazy. :)
11:12 < fenn> yeh
11:13 < Smari> I knew there was a reason we get on so well. :P
11:16 < wrldpc2> Did anyone here go to SingSum last year?
11:16 < kanzure> not to my knowledge
11:18 < samrose> kanzure, fenn, I am not saying that I have already created what I am talking about. I am saying that I think it is possible to create
11:18 < Whickety-Whack> wrldpc2: No, I didn't attend Singularity Summit 2008.
11:19 < kanzure> samrose: I don't know what you are talking about.
11:19 < kanzure> are you saying that given a screw BRep model,
11:19 < kanzure> you can generate screw.yaml for us?
11:19 < samrose> that is the theory
11:19 < kanzure> have you looked at screw.yaml?
11:19 < samrose> yes
11:20 < fenn> that sounds really difficult
11:21 < samrose> well, the intitial work could be difficult
11:21 < fenn> there'd be no way to know it's a "grade 3" bolt
11:21 < samrose> or, maybe not
11:21 < samrose> depends on how you approach it
11:21 < fenn> given some geometry, how do you know what material it is?
11:22 < samrose> what if I want to apply one geometry to multiple materials
11:22 < samrose> ?
11:22 < fenn> you're thinking of the cad file as the "resource" whereas I'm thinking of it more as a representation
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11:23 < fenn> the "actual" data
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11:23 < samrose> right now, your only choice is to manually enter in the material type
11:23 < samrose> into YAML
11:23 < fenn> of course
11:24 < genehacker> or figure the stress applied to it, if this part can be made with out scratches of X size
11:24 < samrose> let's really look at this thing
11:24 < genehacker> easy stuff
11:24 < samrose> author: 'ben lipkowitz'
11:24 < samrose> license: 'GPL2+'
11:24 < samrose> urls:
11:24 < samrose> - 'http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Skdb'
11:24 < samrose> - 'http://fennetic.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=skdb.git;a=blob_plain;f=screw.yaml'
11:24 < samrose> - 'git://fennetic.net/git/skdb.git/'
11:24 < samrose>  
11:24 < samrose> screw: !!python/object:skdb.Screw
11:24 < samrose>  grade: '3'
11:24 < samrose>  length: 1in
11:24 < samrose>  thread: !!python/object:skdb.Thread
11:24 < samrose>     diameter: 1/4*in
11:24 < samrose>     form: UN
11:24 < samrose>     pitch: 20rev/in
11:24 < samrose> how much of the above is currently represented in any way digitally?
11:24 < fenn> in some .stp file?
11:25 < fenn> (there is no cad file)
11:25 < samrose> it's all manually created, right?
11:25 < fenn> right
11:25 < kanzure> so that others won't have to
11:25 < fenn> we've been playing with the idea of a "generator" which would take this data and spit out some cad geometry
11:25 < fenn> in various levels of detail
11:25 < samrose> that is a cool idea too
11:26 < genehacker> if the part is ceramic you can easily figure out it's probability of survival if you can figure out applied stress
11:26 < Smari> Unfortunately this complicates things, as I was planning on trying to get to Japan for christmas and new years.
11:26 < genehacker> remember to pack lots of boxes
11:26 < kanzure> a ceramic christmas?
11:27 < genehacker> what I hear is that you're going to want to take stuff home
11:27 < Smari> hahaha
11:27 < Smari> I'm still in the previous discussion
11:27 < Smari> sorry
11:27 < samrose> no prob
11:27 < fenn> samrose: i dont believe in autogenerated source code
11:27 < Smari> went away for a moment, a friend of mine just successfully folded part of hyperbolic space into euclidian space in the lab, and I wanted to take a look at it.
11:27 < samrose> neither do I
11:28 < genehacker> dang
11:28 < fenn> samrose: so; i see the "laboriously hand entered text" as a good thing, because that's all i'll ever have to do (theoretically)
11:28 < genehacker> those are hard to fold
11:28 < samrose> well, all I am asking you to do is make a standard way to enter data into skdb
11:28 < samrose> that's it
11:28 < fenn> that's what i'm doing
11:28 < samrose> great
11:28 < kanzure> that's what this is..
11:29 < samrose> is there something that we can validate against?
11:29 < samrose> probably not yet
11:29 < fenn> are you talking about some web interface thing with forms?
11:29 < samrose> but that is ok
11:29 < kanzure> what do you mean validate against?
11:29 < samrose> no
11:29 < fenn> kanzure: DTD stuff
11:29 < kanzure> YAML doesn't require DTDs
11:29 < fenn> samrose: when you parse yaml into a live object, the object should check itself and see if it makes sense
11:30 < fenn> this way you can cast a screw as a fastener, for instance
11:30 < fenn> er, typecast
11:30 < samrose> what does the object check itself against?
11:30 < fenn> with XML DTD's you can't really add a bunch of random extra data
11:30 < samrose> not asking you to make DTD
11:30 < fenn> checks the types of its own data
11:31 < fenn> like, length should be in some distance unit
11:31 < samrose> so, each yaml file is a self-contained standard
11:31 < Smari> It's only about 0.3m³ of Euclidian space, but about 1/5th of the hyperbolic space is enclosed.
11:31 < fenn> no, the standard is in the classes which get instantiated with yaml data
11:31 < samrose> the classes that are part of your code
11:32 < fenn> yeah. if you can think of some way to define classes that's not just python, let me know
11:32 < fenn> i dont see a problem with it though
11:32 < samrose> this is done. You can make python classes, methods, functions, etc available as HTTP calls
11:32 < kanzure> you just download new classes 
11:32 < fenn> i have no idea what you mean by that
11:32 < samrose> I have created wrappers that will do this
11:32 < kanzure> eggs?
11:33 < kanzure> what's wrong with eggs?
11:33 < samrose> no
11:33 < kanzure> see, this is why this is a hardware package management system
11:33 < samrose> could be, but that is not what they are yet :)
11:33 < fenn> SOAP stuff?
11:33 < samrose> http service or REST
11:33 < samrose> SOAP could be done too
11:33 < kanzure> so you *were* talking about web stuff
11:33 < samrose> I don't really care
11:33 < fenn> i dont want to rely on a server somewhere when i can just download the damn code and run it locally
11:33 < samrose> any protocol could be used
11:34 < kanzure> I'm confused, are you still explaining how to go from brep->data that you don't even know exists?
11:34 < samrose> you could totally run it all locally
11:34 < samrose> this is great
11:35 < samrose> kanzure, it depends on what is in brep
11:35 < kanzure> do you know what brep is?
11:35 < fenn> take a look at this pic: http://adl.serveftp.org/git/gitweb.cgi?p=skdb.git;a=blob;f=Skdb.png
11:35 < samrose> boundary rep?
11:35 < kanzure> yes. not "screw information rep"
11:36 < ybit> man, i'm stressed for some reason... why do we crave companionship, why would i want a kid, i don't know why i was thinking either today. genes playing with the brain?.. 
11:36  * ybit is some type of emo philosopher 
11:36 < fenn> the two big cylinders are databases on the other side of the net.. you download yaml data and other data.. it gets parsed and stuffed into local code (the puzzle pieces) and yields an object (the hexagons)
11:37 < ybit> i forget: no philosophy 
11:37 < kanzure> that's not philosophy, that's just you being confused
11:37 < kanzure> no confusion allowed
11:37 < ybit> :P
11:37 < samrose> fenn: what are you speaking of a^^ ?
11:37 < fenn> then once you have an object you can do all sorts of stuff like make them fight each other, or generate CAM files
11:37 < fenn> samrose: the picture i linked to
11:37  * samrose clicks
11:39 < Whickety-Whack> fenn: The picture doesn't represent any physical objects, does it?
11:39 < fenn> Whickety-Whack: the physical objects are the plug and outlet at the top
11:40 < Whickety-Whack> fenn: I thought the top row represented widely-held knowledge about outlets and plugs?
11:40 < samrose> the class instance is the rep of phys object
11:40 < fenn> right
11:40 < fenn> um, you're both right
11:41 < Whickety-Whack> Ah, so the top row refers to some Platonic outlet and plug?
11:41 < kanzure> er..
11:41 < kanzure> no.
11:41 < kanzure> the top refers to a deb file basically
11:41 < fenn> in order to have any meaningful representation of a specific plug, you have to come up with a description of plugs in general
11:41 < fenn> kanzure: no, not right
11:41 < samrose> could you not generate the yaml file from wiring schematic data for instance
11:41 < kanzure> they are the packages
11:41 < kanzure> samrose: no
11:41 < samrose> I see the problem with screw
11:41 < fenn> kanzure: the middle row is the deb file
11:41 < kanzure> oh sorry
11:41 < kanzure> that's right
11:41 < samrose> but there are other objects in this univers
11:41 < Whickety-Whack> I thought the packages were the middle row, the skdb?
11:41 < kanzure> Whickety-Whack: yes
11:41 < samrose> beyond screwa
11:41 < samrose> srews
11:41 < kanzure> Whickety-Whack: sorry. I wasn't looking at it
11:42 < kanzure> samrose: that's right
11:42 < kanzure> samrose: that's why I thought you said you were interested in packaging some food tools
11:42 < samrose> then what's all the fuss about?
11:42 < kanzure> which is great. we need people to package stuff like that
11:42 < samrose> either way I am going to do it
11:42 < kanzure> you said that given boundary-representation you can generate the yaml
11:42 < Whickety-Whack> What does the bottom row indicate? I don't understand that part of the diagram.
11:43 < fenn> "doing stuff"
11:43 < fenn> like "sudo make me a sandwich"
11:43 < kanzure> Whickety-Whack: /dev refers to hardware that carries out the instructions. either the humans or the machines that make sandwiches.
11:43 < Whickety-Whack> It seems to mix code, fabrication, and IRL testing.
11:43 < kanzure> the bottom?
11:43 < fenn> Whickety-Whack: well, if it doesn't work, you ought to make a note of that somewhere so someone doesn't repeat your mistakes, right?
11:43 < Whickety-Whack> The row below {running code}.
11:44 < Whickety-Whack> No argument from me, though I've had more co-workers who'd disagree than not.
11:44 < kanzure> you seem to have something against coworkers
11:44 < kanzure> this is the second time today you've badmouthed them :p
11:45 < Whickety-Whack> I am not cynical, just resigned. :)
11:45 < kanzure> 'Another (python ) based tool called skeinforge can read an STL file and produce GCODE toolpaths. '
11:45 < samrose> well, given a brep, we could at least generate part of the yaml
11:45 < samrose> depending on nature of brep
11:46 < fenn> maybe. i think it'd be a lot simpler to just enter the data than teach the computer how to recognize abstract properties from geometry
11:46 < samrose> is there some other source for what is not in brep for an object?
11:46 < samrose> simple for a screw, but what about a ship?
11:46 < fenn> especially since we dont have any cad files to begin with
11:46 < kanzure> "some other source" what?
11:46 < fenn> not any useful ones at least
11:46 < samrose> I am asking YOU
11:46 < fenn> samrose: that's what i was talking about PDM
11:46 < kanzure> I don't know what you mean by "source"
11:47 < fenn> PDM is "all the other stuff" essentially
11:47 < samrose> anything, any source that could give material data, etc etc
11:47 < kanzure> they don't seem to exist. and if they do, you can't really be sure it's about the same thing
11:47 < samrose> forget about "screw", for anything, is there any other source for data beyond brep for an object?
11:47 < kanzure> not in typical cad, no.
11:47 < kanzure> that's why we're doing this.
11:48 < kanzure> we're not purposefully trying to reinvent the wheel
11:48 < kanzure> (oh wait.)
11:48 < samrose> well, I believe you
11:48 < kanzure> then why did you claim that I was wrong
11:48 < samrose> yet, having worked in industrial realm for a while, I do have some experience with this
11:49 < samrose> and, I think you might be surprised that there are some possibilities for what I am talking about
11:49 < fenn> such as?
11:50 -!- genehacker [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out]
11:50 < samrose> existing data
11:51 < kanzure> ..
11:51 < fenn> in what format?
11:51 < samrose> in any, it does NOT matter
11:51 < samrose> unless there is no way to even read it
11:52 < samrose> I also think that it could be possible to speed up the entry of data in the first place, dimensions, materials, etc
11:52 < fenn> do we even have any data files to draw from to build an open source technology distribution?
11:52 < samrose> for someone doing this from scratch
11:52 < samrose> I think it would be worth looking
11:53 < fenn> i mean it's all industrial-age stuff that doesn't really apply to build-from-scratch situation
11:53 < samrose> yes, much of it is hidden
11:53 < samrose> let me offer an examples
11:53 < samrose> example
11:53 < fenn> the idea is to gather open stuff like OSE and put it in a common format
11:54 < kanzure> if you have the files on your hard drive please email them at least
11:54 < fenn> not hack into lockheed martin and download jet engine schematics
11:54 < kanzure> master hax0r
11:54 < samrose> of course
11:54 < samrose> let's say that I make a self contained food growing system
11:55 < samrose> a small plastic box with plants in it
11:55 < samrose> and an automated lighting, watering, feeding etc system
11:56 < samrose> let's say that I *ask* those whom I source components from to provide me with specs, and sell them on the idea based on the premise that they might sell more materials
11:56 < samrose> and lets say that I give them a way to make it easier for them to generate those specs in the first aplce
11:56 < samrose> place
11:56 < samrose> maybe they have them all in a spreadsheet
11:56 < fenn> and they send you a .docx file with photographs in it
11:57 < samrose> maybe it's in a db
11:57 < samrose> maybe, and maybe I ask them to send me data
11:57 < kanzure> package maintainers exist for a reason.
11:57 < Whickety-Whack> Or perhaps just a PDF?
11:57 < samrose> I am just talking about how to gather data here
11:58 < kanzure> sometimes they don't have it
11:58 < samrose> package maintainers or no
11:58 < kanzure> in this situation you would be the package maintainer
11:58 < samrose> I will bet that people who make wire have data on it....
11:58 < kanzure> sure, let's hope so
11:58 < samrose> people who make hoses? bet they do too
11:58  * fenn prays to the Borg TimeCube
11:59 < samrose> arduino, as a company, I will bet they have lots of data about a controller
11:59 < samrose> the idea is to convince them of the value of releasing that data
11:59 < samrose> this will help populate your DB
12:00 < kanzure> you seem to be jumping from topic to topic
12:00 < kanzure> I'm having trouble following
12:01 < fenn> i dont see how a spreadsheet is going to help me automatically annotate a cad file
12:01 < Whickety-Whack> Fenn, I think samrose might mean a case where you get a spreadsheet or nothing.
12:02 < kanzure> well he's claiming he has some magic way of figuring out the YAML file given only boundary-representation
12:02 < kanzure> so I don't think he's talking about that
12:03 < Whickety-Whack> Please go on, samrose.
12:03 < samrose> I work with John Deere currently, and I think they could be interested in contributing to this db
12:03 < samrose> especially if they think people will fab products that they would use with John Deere equipment
12:03 < samrose> just one example
12:03 < samrose> but, back here in the here and now, I do hear what kanzure and fenn are saying for indendent from-scratch flex fab.
12:03 < samrose> that is going to be many people manually building this up
12:03 < samrose> understood
12:04 < kanzure> well you've effectively lost me
12:04 < samrose> kanzure, I am claiming that it is possible to make PART of your YAML file from brep, possibly
12:04 < kanzure> I'm going to go back to work
12:04 < samrose> ok
12:04 < kanzure> which part?
12:04 < samrose> the geometric rep
12:04 < kanzure> that's not part of the YAML file
12:05 < samrose> length and diameter are not in there at all, you are right
12:06 < kanzure> you mean the parametric terms?
12:06 < samrose> length and diameter
12:06 < kanzure> is it a parametric CAD file?
12:06 < kanzure> I mean, we don't even have a screw CAD file at the moment
12:06 < samrose> ok, what if you did?
12:06 < samrose> jesus
12:06 < samrose> I have to go
12:06 < kanzure> well can OCC read it or not?
12:07 < kanzure> or will I have to write my own parametric CAD file translator?
12:07 < samrose> yes, I am saying we write translators
12:07 < kanzure> from what format?
12:08 < samrose> why does that matter?
12:08 < kanzure> because I can't just will the information from The Void
12:08 < samrose> what are you trying to prove by asking me "what format"
12:09 < kanzure> I can't just magically program a reader for something I don't know about
12:09 < samrose> I can imagine it would be the commonly available formats
12:09 < samrose> for CAD files
12:09 < kanzure> does STEP have that information?
12:09 < fenn> yes
12:09 < kanzure> okay problem solved
12:09 < kanzure> you could have just said that STEP has parametric variables in it
12:09 < kanzure> good god
12:09 < fenn> that's not what he said
12:09 < samrose> what did I say?
12:10 < fenn> he's talking about doing feature recognition based on arbitrary geometry (could be mesh for example)
12:10 < fenn> right?
12:10 < samrose> (following along)
12:10 < samrose> :)
12:10 < samrose> right!
12:10 < samrose> in part
12:10 < fenn> ok. the problem is, that's a Hard Problem
12:10 < fenn> i.e. an unsolved problem
12:10 < fenn> similar to tracing lines from a scanned in image
12:10 < samrose> I am talking about doing multiple representations based on the common ways that people are representing their physical object data now
12:11 < fenn> "why can't you just convert .jpg to .svg?"
12:11 < kanzure> no you're not
12:11 < kanzure> that has nothing to do with what you just said "right!" to
12:11 < samrose> well, ok, not right then
12:12 < samrose> I am saying, starting with CAD files, that you could map to dimensions in your YAML, possibly
12:12 < fenn> it's even worse than just OCR, it's more like OCR + NLP
12:12 < fenn> because you dont know what parameter corresponds to what property
12:13 < kanzure> that's what class methods should be for
12:13 < fenn> and in the end it's just geometry, which is only a small set of the information we need in order to test compatibility
12:13 < kanzure> screw.get_length(screw_file)
12:13 < fenn> ugh
12:14 < kanzure> screw_CAD_file
12:14 < fenn> you just have a bunch of geometry; how do you know which part of the geometry is the diameter?
12:14 < fenn> computers arent good at guessing
12:14 < samrose> could be entered in by people while making cad file
12:14 < samrose> I realize this is not what I said
12:15 < samrose> but this is what I am thinking
12:15 < fenn> in reality people don't label things so thoroughly
12:15 < samrose> true
12:17 < samrose> which is why CAD program could recognize a circle, and some program could calc diameter of circle (all circles in file)
12:17 < samrose> or, of outside edges
12:17 < fenn> and then what? which diameter do you pick?
12:18 < samrose> you can map diameters to sections of the geometry
12:18 < fenn> that doesn't solve anything
12:18 < samrose> sure it does
12:18 < fenn> now you have a bunch of geometry; which geometry do you pick?
12:18 < fenn> say we have a bolt with three diameters: the threads, the head, and the body
12:19 < samrose> depends on the object
12:19 < samrose> why would you not want all of that geometric data?
12:19 < samrose> you don't want to know the size of the head?
12:20 < samrose> the threads?
12:20 < fenn> because it's too computationally expensive to compare every detail to every other detail when searching the DB
12:20 < kanzure> I think you two are talking about different things
12:20 < samrose> yes we are
12:20 < kanzure> fenn: bring up the class structure for a screw right about now
12:20 < kanzure> the data goes into the screw instance
12:20 < fenn> screws already have a standard for defining the thread geometry
12:20 < samrose> I think I need to look more closely at your code before pushing this onto you more
12:21 < samrose> but continu
12:21 < samrose> e
12:21 < fenn> the most popular one is the UN thread form, which has a 60 degree triangle with flat tops and rounded bottoms; nominal thread diameter is the distance from flat top to flat top
12:21 < fenn> you can't put a whitworth bolt in a UN hole, it'll jam, even though they have the same diameter
12:21 < samrose> sure
12:22 < fenn> but if you match up UN bolts to UN holes with the same nominal diameter and thread class, it's guaranteed to work
12:22 < fenn> we only have to compare two values
12:22 < fenn> now, that's just talking about screws
12:22 < fenn> there are thousands of other types of devices
12:22 < fenn> are you going to write feature recognition code for everything in existence?
12:23 < samrose> fenn: is that my only choice?
12:23 < fenn> well, you could look up more information on the screw
12:23 < kanzure> samrose: you should read the code if you haven't already
12:23 < kanzure> I thought you had,
12:23 < fenn> it's probably written somewhere what thread form and class it is
12:23 < samrose> If you ask me a question, that is preloaded with the assumption that there is only one choice, then I don't know how to answer
12:23 < kanzure> so I was assuming that you already know what we're talking about
12:24 < kanzure> but if you're coming from a knowledge of CAD only
12:24 < kanzure> then this explains why I'm having so much trouble communicating with you
12:24 < samrose> s'ok
12:24 < fenn> just looking at the code is not terribly informative
12:24 < fenn> i wish it were so simple
12:25 < samrose> it will help me understand the fundamental structure of what kind of model you are trying to create
12:25 < fenn> but this is a whole process, like trying to explain what wikipedia or debian is before there's any such thing
12:25 < samrose> I thought I already understood, but there are some gaps in my understanding apparently
12:25 < kanzure> and it's hard enough explaining debian as it is
12:26 < fenn> the closest thing to a model is that diagram, or i guess you could look at the autogenix spec, but it's old and i've changed my mind on some things
12:26 < samrose> Well, the whole discussion is moot in terms of what I can help with in the short term
12:26 < samrose> which is to document data on existing projects
12:27 < samrose> but, I am thinking about how to speed up the process *where* data exists that can be mapped to data needed for skdb
12:28 < fenn> well one thing that would be useful is if you parsed the matweb data into something useful
12:28  * fenn chases his tail
12:28 < fenn> we have web scrapes of a materials database
12:28 < fenn> but i have no idea what sort of data is in there
12:29 < samrose> that would be awesome to take a crack at too
12:29 < samrose> you tell me what is useful
12:29 < samrose> and I will focus on that
12:30 < fenn> tensile strength, conductivity, thermal conductivity, density, color, coefficient of friction wrt other materials.. (there's a list i posted to OM..)
12:30 < samrose> what is the output that you need?
12:31 < fenn> i'm not entirely sure yet
12:31 < samrose> ok
12:31 < samrose> so, you are still at the "standard creation" phase
12:31 < samrose> meaning, that you are still creating a standard way to deal with the different objects in your system
12:31 < samrose> which is understandable
12:31 < fenn> materials.yaml is as far as i've gotten
12:32 < samrose> ok, we could start with that
12:32 < fenn> the "similar" field is for incomplete data
12:32 < fenn> so we can fish around nearby materials to get values for fields we dont have
12:32 < samrose> or, I could start by matching whatever you currently have in materials.yaml
12:32 < fenn> but there's a lot of weird stuff i didnt know how to represent, like values changing with temperature or pressure
12:34 < samrose> I wonder how people doing physical modeling represent these dynamics?
12:34 < samrose> like, how scipy represents, could give a clue
12:34 < fenn> http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_thread/thread/92b7cb596061d785/757d7eda29096dc1?lnk=gst&q=open+materials#757d7eda29096dc1
12:35 < fenn> it's nice if all your data comes from the same viewpoint, but it doesn't
12:35 < kanzure> scipy doesn't seem to represent it at all
12:35  * kanzure has checked the docs
12:36 < fenn> so for example you could have a number, or a range, or an uncertainty, or a function that depends on indeterminate values
12:37 < fenn> then there's domain-specific properties
12:37 < fenn> for example brass turns easily but is hard to drill
12:37 < fenn> or some aluminum alloy is better for casting than another
12:37 < fenn> do you encode that information in the material data or the data about the manufacturing process?
12:38 < fenn> i've been putting it in the process
12:39 -!- Netsplit holmes.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: wrldpc2, tarbo2_, samrose
12:40 -!- Netsplit over, joins: wrldpc2, samrose, tarbo2_
12:44 < wrldpc2> http://www.youtube.com/user/JMEMantzel
12:44 < wrldpc2> DIY roboticist in the mountains of Vermont
12:44 < wrldpc2> built his own lumber mill to build his workshop to build his giant robot
12:47 < fenn> "open everything conference": Tuition is $395 per person, plus food and accomodation. 
12:47 < fenn> Food and accomodation ranges from tents ($77) to super nice private rooms ($200). 
12:47 < fenn> does that mean they provide the tent?
12:48 < samrose> fenn maybe I will make one or more suggested design patterns when I go through the process of parsing your db to YAML
12:48 < samrose> fenn and you can accept or shoot down as you wich
12:48 < samrose> wish
12:48 < fenn> ok, thanks
12:48 < samrose> I will implement them in code
12:49 < samrose> this will also help me get more familiar with your code
12:49 < samrose> fenn where is the database?
12:49 < fenn> matweb? /me pokes kanzure
12:50 < samrose> fenn: on OM list you ask:
12:50 < samrose> i already know we dont have any lawyers on this list, but does anyone know
12:50 < samrose> the legality of programmatically extracting the data from, say, a webpage
12:50 < samrose> or an ebook, and then redistributing it in a different form?
12:50 < samrose> what about by hand? at what point is it no longer "fair use"?
12:50 < samrose> I think if this is annotation, that you are still working with fair use
12:50 < samrose> especially if source is included
12:50 < fenn> it's not anything to do with fair use, actually
12:50 < kanzure> matweb is on leibniz
12:50 < samrose> ok
12:51 < fenn> you can't copyright data, so extracting the data and putting it in a different format should be perfectly legal
12:51 < samrose> fenn I agree
12:51 < samrose> no different than loading a web page
12:51 < fenn> you can only copyright "creative expression" supposedly
12:51 < samrose> in your browser, and then adding annotation
12:51 < fenn> but i'm sure a lawyer could find some way to fuck over just about anyone
12:51 < samrose> that is stored locally
12:52 < samrose> heh, probably
12:53 < fenn> i thought NIST would have all sorts of materials data, but i guess not
12:53 < samrose> fenn you have kind of a vague requirements list on that thread, of categories. I will start with those, but it could be cool to see what a majority of concerned people think about what categories should be represented
12:53 < fenn> yeah it's vague because i dont know everything
12:54 < samrose> yes, of course
12:54 < samrose> not your fault
12:54 < samrose> but, I can start with that list
12:54 < samrose> coefficient of friction wrt other materials
12:54 < samrose>    density
12:54 < samrose>    tensile strength
12:54 < samrose>    modulus
12:54 < samrose>    fatigue and creep info
12:54 < samrose>    electrical properties
12:54 < samrose>    chemical resistance
12:54 < samrose>    changes due to temperature (including tempering processes)
12:54 < samrose>    machinability
12:54 < samrose>    elemental makeup
12:54 < samrose>    similarity to other materials
12:54 < samrose>    price and availability 
12:54 < samrose> then, we could get lots of people to throw down on suggested sources
12:54 < samrose> then, based on source, think about how to import
12:55 < samrose> the sources are where many people could help
12:55 < samrose> I think
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12:55 < samrose> not just people on OM list, but people in Universities, etc
12:56 < samrose> for each property, or category, it would be good to know what the current problems are for that (like aforementioned temp, pressure, etc
12:56 < samrose> or at least the known problems
12:57 < fenn> yeah i was hoping to at least get some glimmer of a response from openmaterials
12:57 < samrose> fenn do you guys have a specific wiki where you are working on this?
12:57 < fenn> not really
12:57 < samrose> where would you prefer?
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12:58 < fenn> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/ ?
12:58 < samrose> fenn did you guys kill off your media wiki site?
12:58 < samrose> using dokuwiki now (fine by me if so)
12:59 < fenn> heybryan.org isnt exactly reliably available
12:59 < samrose> :)
13:00 < samrose> ok, I would use your wiki to map out the structure, and methods and meta info. And, point other people to that
13:00 < samrose> if that is ok with you
13:00 < fenn> sure
13:00 < samrose> ok
13:01 < fenn> want to put it here? http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/materials
13:02 < samrose> sure
13:02 < samrose> we may end up with a page for each property
13:02 < samrose> if that is ok
13:02 < fenn> ok
13:02 < fenn> can do a namespace if it gets ridiculous
13:02 < samrose> but all mapped back to that one
13:02 < samrose> I will try to keep it simple
13:02 < kanzure> you may as well just write a YAML file of it
13:02 < samrose> yes!
13:02 < kanzure> isn't that the idea
13:03 < kanzure> sigh
13:03 < samrose> kanzure
13:03 < samrose> I will write yaml file
13:03 < samrose> the wiki will only be used to park info
13:03 < samrose> like the issues we talked about here
13:04 < samrose> where it is easy, we'll just parse data to yaml, and document how it is done
13:04 < samrose> is that ok?
13:04 < Smari> Shite, HAR2009 just sold out.
13:04 < fenn> parse what to yaml?
13:04 < fenn> oh like matweb, sure
13:04 < samrose> data you have scraped
13:04 < samrose> my face
13:04 < samrose> anything
13:05 < fenn> i think if we're going to be redistributing anything it should be the .yaml files
13:05 < samrose> that is what we are talking here
13:05 < samrose> let's recap
13:05 < fenn> since we can't exactly redistribute the source data if it's encumbered
13:05 < samrose> You will send me a db
13:05 < samrose> I will parse to yaml
13:06 < samrose> I will document the methods for doing so on your wiki
13:06 < fenn> how about you just commit the code you used to parse it
13:06 < samrose> ok
13:06 < samrose> what about those things that are open questions?
13:06 < fenn> like what?
13:06 < samrose> dynamics
13:07 < samrose> thermal, pressure, etc
13:07 < samrose> you don't yet have an idea for how you want to represent
13:07 < fenn> that's what you're supposed to be figuring out
13:07 < fenn> :)
13:07 < samrose> and, I will use your wiki to park that figuring out
13:07 < samrose> is what I am saying
13:07 < fenn> ok; feel free to cc openmanufacturing
13:07 < fenn> god forbid we discuss something topical
13:08 < samrose> ok, I will be sure to copy there
13:08 < samrose> gotta go will talk later
13:09 < fenn> ciao
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13:26 < xp_prg> is anyone seeing my postings on the diybio-sf and diybio emailing lists?
13:30 < kanzure> yes, they just don't like emails
13:31 < xp_prg> nobody is responding to me :(
13:35 < kanzure> welcome to the club
13:36 < Smari> I hate people who don't reply to e-mails.
13:36 -!- tarbo2 [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:37 < kanzure> Smari: then you must love me
13:37 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r663b1f88afc5 /pymates/pymates.py: committing pymates before I go too far
13:37 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r7009c05eb57a / (occ_shell.py shell.py): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://bryan@adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb
13:39 < Smari> kanzure, in a very platonic way.
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13:56 < ybit> argh, i had things to talk about (toolbook), but i have work
13:58 < xp_prg> I know toolbook
13:59 < fenn> different toolbook i bet
13:59 < fenn> not the educational software
14:01 < xp_prg> oh what are you talking about?
14:05 < kanzure> how many times have I sent the link to you 
14:05 < kanzure> too many to count
14:06 < fenn> i can't seem to find it in the archives
14:06 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/om.html
14:06 < kanzure> fenn: find what?
14:06 < fenn> oh nevermind http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_thread/thread/4205d64009a98fce#
14:08 < CIA-44> skdb:  * r1165986a3ddd /inventory/receipt-schema.yaml: more stuff
14:12 < samrose> fenn, where is this scraped data? Else, I can rescrape
14:15 < kanzure> samrose: I had to write a tor wrapper for the data
14:15 < kanzure> er, for the scraper
14:15 < kanzure> because it blocks you every 100 downloads
14:15 < kanzure> so anyway, it's on heybryan.org at the moment
14:15 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/matweb.zip
14:16 < kanzure> (it's 479 MB)
14:17 -!- Smari [n=spm@nmi-gw.eyjar.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
14:17 < fenn> that's 3 hr upload at 40kB/s
14:17 < samrose> wget eta 2d 10h and decreasing! :-D
14:18 < samrose> where did you scrape this from?
14:18 < kanzure> matweb.com
14:18 < samrose> thanks kanzure
14:18 < kanzure> samrose: I'll bring it in to the lab tomorrow so that you can download it quickly
14:18 < samrose> I will also try that out
14:18 < kanzure> you'll get it in about 10 seconds from adl.serveftp.org once I bring it in on a flash drive
14:18 < samrose> ok, I won't download as it will further bog down heybryan
14:18 < kanzure> thanks
14:19 < kanzure> my poor server :(
14:19 < samrose> is that you own machine?
14:19 < fenn> i'll snip off  a representative sample
14:19 < samrose> fenn, ok
14:20 < samrose> fenn did you scrape search urls?
14:20 < kanzure> ?
14:20 < samrose> I guess I will see when you send me an example
14:20 < kanzure> I did the scrape
14:20 < samrose> oh, sorry
14:21 < kanzure> but blame fenn if it sucks
14:21 < kanzure> :p
14:21 < samrose> did you just recursively scrape the whole she-bang?
14:21 < kanzure> no
14:21 < kanzure> there's about 80,000 entris
14:21 < kanzure> entries
14:21 < kanzure> so I selectively iteratively scraped just those entries
14:21 < samrose> I see
14:21 < kanzure> but every 100 entries the script had to get a new tor IP 
14:23 < fenn> samrose: http://fennetic.net/irc/sample.tgz
14:25 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/matweb-sample/sample/
14:25 < fenn> aroo?
14:26 < samrose> thnx fenn
14:26 < kanzure> oh apparently that's the same server
14:26 < kanzure> so.. yeah.
14:26 < fenn> shh
14:27 < samrose> ok, I can work out a method with this
14:46 < samrose> kanzure, did you know that most, if not all YAML is valid JSON?
14:46 < samrose> err, I guess I should have said all JSON is valid YAML
14:47 < samrose> yes. the latter is what I meant
14:47 < kanzure> no, didn't care to check I guess
14:47 < samrose> well, not that I blame you. I take it you don't usually muck about with this kind of stuff
14:48 < kanzure> nah, I do, I just haven't bothered to use JSON
14:51 < kanzure> what should my i and k be for the peg? 
14:51 < kanzure> for the top interface of the peg
14:51 < fenn> is it pointing in y or z?
14:51 < kanzure> y
14:52 < fenn> i,k = [0,0,0], [0,0,0]
14:52 < fenn> oops
14:52 < fenn> what are i and k again?
14:53 < fenn> i,k = [1,0,0], [0,0,1]
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15:01 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@w-central-233-27.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:08 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r93ea7af96f05 /pymates/ (assembly.py models/peg.yaml pymates.py shell.sh): show interface points with giant spheres
15:11 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r7ea48d746d2b /pymates/models/notes: notes on the models
15:15 < kanzure> fenn: note the color of the spheres on this commit. they are supposed to be red. there's definitely some funky lighting going on.
15:23 < Smari> kanzure, which debian package contains OCC?
15:24 < kanzure> it's in testing
15:25 < kanzure> so add testing to your /etc/apt/sources.list
15:25 < kanzure> then do apt-cache search libopencascade
15:25 < kanzure> and check that 6.3.0 is showing
15:25 < kanzure> fenn claims that libopencascade-ocaf-6.3.0 gets everything
15:25 < kanzure> er, or one of the other packages. fenn?
15:25 < kanzure> Smari: also, here are some notes for your convenience:
15:25 < Smari> I'm actually on ubuntu.
15:25 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/occ
15:25 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc
15:25 < fenn> libopencascade-dev
15:26 < fenn> not ocafblarf
15:26 < bkero> Hot fucking shit.
15:26 < fenn> you might have to get packages from opennovation
15:26 < bkero> I got a Google Wave invite.
15:26 < kanzure> Smari: they might have it
15:26 < Smari> bkero, gimmie!
15:26 < bkero> Can't
15:26 < kanzure> then why tell us
15:27 < bkero> Because I'm going to do a screencast of it
15:27 < kanzure> "oh man I got a hotmail account. I'm so hot."
15:27 < bkero> I'll see if I get any invited after I'm in.
15:27 < Smari> kanzure, "libopencascade6.2 set to manually installed."
15:27 < Smari> exclusivity sucks.
15:28 < bkero> Yea
15:28 < bkero> :(
15:29 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r6fb99d6b7539 /pymates/ (models/README models/notes pymates.py): rawr
15:33 < kanzure> Smari: there's a deb for ubuntu on opennovation.org
15:34 < fenn> ~/local/pythonOCC/samples/Level1/Geometry/geometry_demos.py
15:39 < kanzure> er why are there M16s in the hallway?L
15:41 < Smari> kanzure, you're in Texas.
15:41 < fenn> that's what i said
15:42 < fenn> the question properly ought to have been 'why are there dudes with M16s in the hallway'
15:42 < Smari> ah. Now that's a better question. Did either of you plant explosives on campus?
15:42 < fenn> they're just chillin'
15:42 < kanzure>  Matt:  no I got a notice :"  I received a call from Michael Slotboom that the police are looking for an armed gunman in ETC.  He has on a white shirt and has red hair.  Lock yourself in your office or get out of the building  "
15:43 < kanzure> that email would have been useful
15:43 < kanzure> gee thanks guys
15:43 < kanzure> always looking out for me
15:44 < Smari> hahaha
15:44 < Smari> that's hillarious.
15:44 < kanzure> (Matt's the prof)
15:46 < fenn> i got an email from UT safety alert saying 'sign up for emergency text messaging'
15:46 < kanzure> so UTPD is twittering?
15:46 < fenn> they sort of forgot to mention the whole gunman thing though
15:47 < fenn> wow i can get notices from utparking
15:47 < kanzure> I always get those notices.
15:47 < kanzure> "24th street will be closed."
15:47 < kanzure> and then it is.
15:48 < Smari> hahahaha
15:48 < fenn> so much for all this emergency preparedness bullshit
15:49 < kanzure> Matt sent me an email
15:49 < kanzure> From: Don Artieschoufsky [mailto:don.artie@me.utexas.edu]
15:49 < kanzure> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 3:45 PM
15:49 < kanzure> To: ETC Building All Occupants
15:49 < kanzure> Subject: False Alarm - Intruder in building
15:49 < kanzure> Importance: High
15:49 < kanzure> I've been informed that the suspect was a student with a toy gun that was part of a project in the building.
15:49 < Smari> Hahaha
15:49 < fenn> gosh i'm glad it wasn't me
15:49  * fenn hides toy gun
15:50 < Smari> How does having an armed man in a University classify as an emergency?
15:50 < bkero> Depends on if they're supposed to be armed, and if the University allows such things.
15:51 < bkero> We have armed state troopers on campus.
15:51 < Smari> hm
15:51 < kanzure> that's a common class project, btw
15:52 < Smari> oh?
15:52 < Smari> FabRifle?
15:59 < Smari> you Texans are so crazy.
15:59 -!- genehacker2 [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:59 < genehacker2> KANZURE THEY'RE COMING FOR YOU, THEY FOUND OUT ABOUT DIYBIO, ok not really I'll explain
15:59 < genehacker2> why there's a swat team
16:00 < Smari> How many Texans are there here anyway? Sheesh.
16:00 < genehacker2> there's a girl with a bow and arrow and a gun(possibly paintball gun for rev engineering project)
16:00 < genehacker2> definately in case
16:00 < genehacker2> does not appear to be threat
16:00 < genehacker2> is there really a swat team?
16:01 < genehacker2> kanzure?
16:01 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@w-central-233-27.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:02 < genehacker2> I overheard"apparently there's a swat team coming though"
16:05 < genehacker2> you guys still there?
16:07 < Smari> you just made it hilarious to say nothing.
16:09 < genehacker2> did you say candlejack, you aren't supposed to sa
16:21 < fenn> sorry was in a meeting
16:21 < fenn> yes there was a swat team, turned out to be an engineering student with a toy gun
16:21 < kanzure> this poor student is now marked for life for having made a gun that will forever be known as a toy.
16:23 < Smari> only a matter of time until said student goes on a real murderous rampage.
16:24 < genehacker2> heh
16:24 < genehacker2> for reverse engineering no doubt
16:25 < genehacker2> airsoft guns are some of the best things to reverse engineer because they have  internal mechanical parts
16:25 < fenn> complicated and fidgety = best thing to reverse engineer?
16:26 < Smari> easy to see how they work = best thing to reverse engineer.
16:28 < genehacker2> well they're mechanical
16:28 < genehacker2> probably not the best
16:30 < genehacker2> why did she have a bow and arrow though?
16:31 < Smari> they're fun.
16:31 < Smari> reminds me, I should pick up my archery gear on saturday.
16:33 < genehacker2> hmmm...
16:34 < genehacker2> Now I wonder if you could do ballistics calculations with a bow and arrow
16:34 < genehacker2> combine that with VR goggles to superimpose a dot where the arrow will land
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17:29 < CIA-44> Tangiblebit: spm * r9a576c719324 /tangiblebit.com/ (4 files in 3 dirs): More XMLRPC and Javascript glue.
17:29 < CIA-44> Tangiblebit: spm * reb6b2dcd2deb /tangiblebit.com/doc/DTD/site.dtd: Added <site> DTD.
17:37 -!- Smari [n=spm@88.149.89.58] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
17:51 < kanzure> Apollo 11 landing transcript http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11.landing.html
17:58 < kanzure> http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/07/21/0142234/How-They-Built-the-Software-of-Apollo-11?art_pos=22
18:17 < fenn> http://gizmodo.com/378261/cheap-homemade-mri-does-a-better-job-imaging-lungs-than-the-real-thing
18:17 < fenn> looks fairly straightforward
18:17 < fenn> how do you manage to spend $100k on it i wonder
18:18 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/screenshots/
18:18 < kanzure> fenn: by going to harvard
18:19 < kanzure> your sense of economics gets all skewed when it costs a million dollars to have an apartment 10 floors up
18:20 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r2a3b618f28ad /pymates/ (models/peg.yaml pymates.py): pymates works. run demo and then mate_parts to see it in action.
18:20 < fenn> doesn't helium dissolve in the blood? so you could use this for other imaging
18:20 < kanzure> had to randomly play around with the peg's matrix to figure out the right numbers.
18:21 < kanzure> (turns out the j has to be 1,1,1 and you were right about i and k)
18:22 < fenn> 1,1,1?
18:22 < fenn> not 0,1,0?
18:23 < kanzure> with 0,1,0 it gives me a "singular matrix" error
18:23 < kanzure> in particular when I try to find the inverse of the 4x4
18:23 < kanzure> oh I guess if I comment out that line it works fine though
18:25 < fenn> squids again http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/imaging/a-weaker-cheaper-mri
18:26 < kanzure> didn't I find some random article about a ridiculously cheap portable MRI system?
18:26 < kanzure> by ridiculously I mean <$10k
18:29 < fenn> "Atomic magnetometers are convenient and cheap to operate because they do not require cryogenics and their electronics can be made compact and portable for multi-channel imaging. Their high sensitivity is comparable to [SQUIDs]"
18:29 < kanzure> can you make a magnetometer with an AFM that just bends in response to a magnetic field?
18:29 < kanzure> due to some bead at the tip of the cantilever?
18:30 < kanzure> guess it would only work with many cantilevers and little or no movement 
18:30 < fenn> why many?
18:30 < kanzure> are you going to sit still while the AFM tip scans over your body 
18:31 < fenn> http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/magnetometer.html
18:31 < kanzure> at the dashing rate of 3 mm per hour :p
18:31 < fenn> i think you're missing the point
18:32 < fenn> The amount of laser light absorbed by the atoms varies predictably with the magnetic field, providing a reference scale for measuring the field.
18:32 < fenn> i guess rubidium is special in that regard
18:42 < kanzure> rubidium and cesium are popular for atom holography
18:51 < kanzure> http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aheybryan.org+MRI&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.debian:en-US:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a
18:51 < kanzure> query: site:heybryan.org MRI
18:53 < kanzure> why do MRI rooms have vents?
18:54 < xp_prg> kanzure did you ever check out the africa medical equipment stuff?
18:54 < kanzure> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=230037&cid=18662185
18:54 < xp_prg> some of it is handcranked and stuff
18:54 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/absence/SonyVAIO_more_bookmarks_June23rd02007.htm
18:55 < QuantumG> MRIs are expensive because of two things:  1) the consumers don't demand lower prices, and there's not too many of them anyway; 2) government regulation keeps out new competitors
18:56 < kanzure> or because you suck and don't know how to make something better
18:56 < xp_prg> kanzure hello do you see my question?
18:57 < kanzure> it doesn't make any sense
18:57 < kanzure> africa is a continent
18:58 < genehacker2> why do they have vents?
18:58 < genehacker2> to emergency purge cryogases?
18:58 < xp_prg> Africa is a third world country and needs to save money so medical equipment is cheaper
18:58 < kanzure> so what?
18:58 < xp_prg> so they may have a cheaper mri
18:58 < kanzure> may?
18:59 < kanzure> how do you know whether or not they do
18:59 < kanzure> are you just bullshitting me
18:59 < bkero> Build your own?
18:59 < genehacker2> in the event of a leak?
19:00 < kanzure> bkero: what are you asking?
19:00 < genehacker2> btw superconductors aren't cheap
19:00 < xp_prg> kanzure your crazy to talk to
19:00 < kanzure> xp_prg: you're the one who's making shit up
19:00 < bkero> kanzure: Build your own MRI?
19:00 < kanzure> bkero: yeah :)
19:00 < genehacker2> why?
19:00 < kanzure> bkero: IIRC, there was a cheap way to do it
19:01 < QuantumG> got a design for an MRI?
19:01 < kanzure> hm, somewhere
19:01 < kanzure> can you give me time to dig around?
19:01 < bkero> When the query is about building it yourself, there need not be a 'why'.
19:01 < genehacker2> oh
19:01 < genehacker2> ok
19:01 < genehacker2> btw got a physics problem
19:02 < bkero> Also, because MRI equipment is expensive/unattainable.
19:02 < kanzure> hahah an "open" MRI http://www.meticulouspixel.com/DMI_0.9.7/patient.htm
19:02 < genehacker2> so I take a loop of wire and enclose most of the loop in a superconducting cylinder
19:02 < genehacker2> I put a current in this loop of wire
19:02 < bkero> There's MRI viewing software
19:02 < genehacker2> how is this not a magnetic monopole?
19:03 < genehacker2> because superconductors have magnetic shielding properties you end up witn something that looks like a monopole
19:04 < genehacker2> but magnetic monopoles can't exist
19:05 < bkero> http://gizmodo.com/378261/cheap-homemade-mri-does-a-better-job-imaging-lungs-than-the-real-thing
19:05 < kanzure> "cheap"
19:05 < kanzure> how is that cheap
19:06 < xp_prg> its only 100k
19:06 < genehacker2> $20 is cheap
19:07 < kanzure> $100k is expensive.
19:07 < bkero> 'To get started in home-built MRI, you'll want to make a "proton precession magnetometer."
19:07 < bkero> '
19:07 < genehacker2> anything more than $20 is considered expensive
19:07 < genehacker2> this fact is easily demonstrated by infomercial products costing less than $20
19:07 < bkero> genehacker2: It costs more than that for me to get a good PSU, gelbox, and electrodes, but I think doing my own electrophoresis is cheap.
19:08 < bkero> Oh yea, and agar agar
19:08 < xp_prg> bkero wow you do your own electrophloresis?
19:08 < bkero> Haven't done a successful run yet, but yea.
19:08 < genehacker2> anyone got an answer to my monopole question
19:08 < QuantumG> if you could actually do anything interesting with an MRI it might be worth the cost
19:09 < kanzure> neurofeedback
19:09 < bkero> I think even if you built the MRI, getting someone to actually use it would be hilariously difficult.
19:09 < kanzure> use a rat
19:09 < bkero> Yea
19:09 < genehacker2> or use it for NMR
19:10 < genehacker2> heh reminds me of the NMR built into a shack in A is for Anything
19:10 < xp_prg> bkero my diybio group has
19:10 < bkero> Will an MRI actually tell you/let you affect the things you want for NMR?
19:10 < xp_prg> Tito has an open gel electrophloresis box
19:10 < kanzure> xp_prg: how is it that you've been into this for a year and still haven't learned anything
19:10 < bkero> There are a lot of plans out there.
19:10 < kanzure> xp_prg: tito does not have an open source gel box
19:10 < kanzure> xp_prg: he's making a business around it and has no CAD files
19:10 < xp_prg> yes he does
19:10 < kanzure> no, meredith told me so :)
19:10 < kanzure> she knows what she's doing
19:11 < xp_prg> he said on my video all the hardware and specs would be open
19:11 < bkero> CAD files?  I've been using Fred Meyer tupperware
19:11 < kanzure> bull fucking shit, xp_prg 
19:11 < kanzure> he's been saying that for months
19:11 < kanzure> it takes 1 minute to upload the files
19:11 < xp_prg> wow so he is lying?
19:11 < kanzure> it seems so
19:12 < xp_prg> meredith is way cool to me
19:13 < bkero> My setup consists of tupperware, a colored pencil holder box, agar agar from the local asian market, some electrodes from a shitty $3 harbor freight multimeter, and an old AT PSU I had sitting around.
19:14 < kanzure> wait, doesn't tupperware melt when you apply a voltage to to it?
19:14  * xp_prg hugs bkero
19:14 < bkero> Hasn't yet
19:14 < bkero> Hasn't even gotten hot or discolored.
19:14 < genehacker2> tupperware melt?
19:15 < kanzure> doesn't it?
19:15 < genehacker2> how kanzure?
19:15 < kanzure> maybe I'm just pulling stuff out of my ass
19:15 < kanzure> sorry
19:15 < genehacker2> you aren't putting 180 megamps through a gel box now are you?
19:15 < bkero> From an AT PSU?
19:16 < bkero> This damn PSU won't even power the radiator fans that came from my car.
19:16 < genehacker2> bkero 180 megaamps is insane
19:17 < bkero> Yea
19:17 < bkero> This thing won't even put out 120 amps
19:17 < bkero> er, 120 watts
19:17 < bkero> I've been eyeing an electrophoresis power supply from the surplus store on campus.
19:17 < bkero> 27kv, $35
19:17 < kanzure> ah, we just have surplus auctions
19:17 < kanzure> no surplus store
19:18 < bkero> Yea, the surplus store does auctions and sells things
19:18 < genehacker2> they have equipment on the loading docks that isn't watched...
19:18 < bkero> The things they can't sell, they list on labx.
19:19 < bkero> I've got way too many projects, I want to finish my centrifuge before the gelbox.
19:19 < genehacker2> labx?
19:19 < bkero> labx is a web site that sells used lab equipment
19:19 < kanzure> bkero: you're a prime target for skdb.
19:19 < bkero> http://www.labx.com/
19:20 < bkero> Are you going to have tupperware as part of your inventory? :)
19:20 < kanzure> yes
19:20 < bkero> Hehe
19:21 < kanzure> http://osteele.com/projects/pywordnet/examples.html
19:21 < bkero> http://www.labx.com/v2/adsearch/detail3.cfm?adnumb=393433
19:22 < genehacker2> bkero do you have a food processor?
19:22 < bkero> genehacker2: Of sorts
19:22 < bkero> Why?
19:22 < genehacker2> you can make it into a centrifuge
19:22 < bkero> I already have that part replicated, I just need to make the tube holder.
19:23 < bkero> Also, food processor motor won't spin fast enough.
19:23 < kanzure> one thing on my todo list is a spin coater
19:23 < genehacker2> can be made using food processor
19:23 < genehacker2> you sure bkero?
19:24 < bkero> It might be able to
19:24 < bkero> I used a hobbyist motor.
19:24 < bkero> and already have the top portion keyed onto the motor shaft.
19:24 < bkero> I think I'm going to have to fiberglass the tube holders on to some sort of conical shape.
19:25 < genehacker2> PVC pipe is what this one used
19:26 < bkero> Nice
19:26 < bkero> Pics?
19:26 < genehacker2> I'm trying to find it
19:27 < kanzure> yaml for bibliographies? http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pybtex/20090402
19:27 < genehacker2> http://www.scifair.org/kid-science-project-molbio.html
19:28 < genehacker2> I don't think you need to pay for that to figure out how to make it
19:28 < kanzure> huh wonder why python-bibtex (in debian) isn't on pypi
19:29 < ybit> heyo
19:29 < ybit> thanks for mentioning legocad kanzure 
19:29 < ybit> i saw that pyobjects is usable via txt to my phone while @ work, let's check it out...
19:30 < genehacker2> anyway bkero what do you intend to centrifuge?
19:30 < genehacker2> how much acceleration does it need to undergo?
19:31 < bkero> Enrich uranium :)
19:32 < genehacker2> ok then
19:32 < genehacker2> you got a precision machine shop?
19:32 < bkero> Yes
19:32 < genehacker2> ok
19:33 < genehacker2> you need a lot of centrifuges
19:33 < genehacker2> like a lot
19:34 < bkero> Hobby motors, keys, and keyed plates are a total of about $15 each.
19:35 < bkero> I'm not sure if I'm going to need a dampened start or not so I don't crack the tubes.
19:35 < genehacker2> you should consider making a laser based uranium enricher
19:36 < bkero> How might that work?
19:36 < genehacker2> check wikipedia
19:36 < genehacker2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enriched_uranium
19:36 < bkero> Also, I'm not sure the legality of > 30mW lasers here
19:36 < genehacker2> definately legal
19:36 < bkero> Maybe the limit is application specific
19:36 < bkero> Ah, cool
19:37 < bkero> I've seen 1w lasers, but I remembered that the crystals were horrendously expensive.
19:38 < genehacker2> you can get very powerful CO2 lasers for not crazy
19:39 < genehacker2> like 10 Watts and more
19:39 < bkero> Wow
19:40 < genehacker2> but laser based isotope enrichment is hard
19:43 < genehacker2> anyway you don't need to enrich uranium now do you?
19:44 < kanzure> aha. http://pybtex.sourceforge.net/
19:44 < kanzure> much better
19:45 < bkero> No
19:45 < bkero> But I do want a centrifuge :)
19:47 < drazak> got to play with a confocal microscope today
19:47 < drazak> was pretty cool
19:47 < drazak> took pictures of some HUVECs and MSCs with them
19:48 < kanzure> neat, pybtex/examples/foo.yaml
19:48 < kanzure> bzr branch lp:pybtex  
19:50 < genehacker2> I used an SEM last week
19:51 < genehacker2> I looked at metal
19:53 < kanzure> so there doesn't seem to be any actual python classes for bibtex
19:57 < kanzure> http://pybtex.sourceforge.net/manual.html
19:57 < kanzure> bleh
19:58 < genehacker2> kanzure you got a copy of matweb right?
19:59 < kanzure> yes
19:59 < genehacker2> what's the poisson's ratio of RTV silicone?
20:00 < kanzure> why don't you check yourself
20:00 < kanzure> http://matweb.com/
20:00 < genehacker2> ok
20:00 < genehacker2> the poisson's ratio isn't there
20:00 < kanzure> try the engineering library
20:00 < genehacker2> ok
20:00 < kanzure> holy crap the yaml output sucks
20:07 < kanzure> it's because of all this unicode encoding
20:07 < bkero> It's free chicken burrito day at Chipotle. :)
20:14 < kanzure> fenn: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/notes-pybtex
20:15 < kanzure> fear the terribleness
20:18 < genehacker2> IT IS?
20:19 < genehacker2> meh
20:19 < fenn> i thought yaml handled unicore smarter than that
20:19 < genehacker2> I think I'll derive equations for a rolamite bearing instead of getting a free burrito
20:20 < kanzure> it's disgusting
20:45 < ybit> fenn: OSE = openstep?
20:46 < ybit> ah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_System_Environment_Reference_Model
20:46 < fenn> no
20:47 < fenn> ybit: http://openfarmtech.org/
20:52 < kanzure> mycone = OCC.BRepPrimAPI.BRepPrimAPI_MakeCone(1.,2.,3.)
20:52 < kanzure> mycone.Shape(). hm.
21:07 < kanzure> what am I doing
21:07 < kanzure> I was writing something, somewhere
21:07 < kanzure> and now I'm not
21:30 < kanzure> so. um. what am I doing?
21:35 < genehacker2> you're telling me how to use that cad thing
21:37 < kanzure> what cad thing?
21:37 < kanzure> did you install it yet?
21:38 < genehacker2> python OCC 
21:38 < genehacker2> no
21:38 < kanzure> are you on ubuntu?
21:38 < genehacker2> no
21:38 < genehacker2> can switch
21:38 < kanzure> ok look at the bottom of this page
21:38 < kanzure> oh
21:38 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc
21:38 < kanzure> well either way
21:38 < kanzure> there's the instructions
21:40 < genehacker2> can pythonOCC export to .stl?
21:40 < kanzure> yes
21:40 < genehacker2> ok cool 
21:40 < genehacker2> so how do I plot a curve in it from points?
21:41 < kanzure> probably through NURBS
21:42 < genehacker2> and that is?
21:42 < genehacker2> curve through 2d points that I extrude down to sketch
21:43 < kanzure> what? down to a sketch? what does that mean
21:43 < kanzure> maybe this is what you want? http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/ModelingAlgorithms/html/classGeom2dGcc__CurveTool.html
21:43 < genehacker2> I extrude the shape formed by the curve to make a part
21:44 < kanzure> there's also this one
21:44 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/doc/ReferenceDocumentation/ModelingAlgorithms/html/classShapeUpgrade__ConvertCurve2dToBezier.html
21:44 < kanzure> trying to find the 2D curve class in the docs somewhere
21:45 < genehacker2> simply put, I need to make a gear
21:48 < kanzure> ok line 442 in pythonOCC/samples/Level1/Geometry
21:48 < kanzure> er, sorry
21:48 < kanzure> ok line 442 in pythonOCC/samples/Level1/Geometry/geometry_demos.py
21:56 < genehacker2> ???
21:59 < kanzure> when you install pythonOCC, look in that folder at that file
21:59 < kanzure> and at line 442 to see how to do it
21:59 < genehacker2> ok
22:16 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-96-237-4-79.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:57 < genehacker2> this can't be right
22:58 < kanzure> ?
23:01 < genehacker2> so apparently a silicone band 4.5 millimeters in diameter and 6 mm thick should fit stretch to 20 millimeters in diameter and 3 millimeters thick
23:01 < genehacker2> which doesn't seem right
23:02 < genehacker2> though silicone has an elongation% at yield of 620%
23:04 < genehacker2> that seems crazy
23:04 < genehacker2> for what I want to do at least
23:20 < genehacker2> oh that's why
23:20 < genehacker2> stress was over the yield point for those values
23:21 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * ra5f5ec6b816f /pymates/ (4 files in 2 dirs): trying to get things to work again
23:47 < wrldpc2> v00tmas