--- Day changed Wed Jul 22 2009 00:43 < genehacker2> ??? 00:45 < genehacker2> who wants a files for a rolamite bearing? 02:06 -!- genehacker2 [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:07 -!- genehacker2 [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:34 < wrldpc2> me 02:34 < genehacker2> ??? 03:12 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-96-237-4-79.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:34 -!- Smari [n=spm@88.149.89.58] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:21 -!- Smari [n=spm@88.149.89.58] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:49 -!- Smari [n=spm@nmi-gw.eyjar.is] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:33 -!- freedom_ [n=freedom@195.216.211.175] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:33 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.211.175] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:40 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:44 -!- strages [n=strages@c-68-62-216-5.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:45 -!- strages [n=strages@c-68-62-216-5.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:10 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r545c18cf682e /pymates/ (models/peg.yaml pymates.py): hack on matrix math 08:17 -!- genehacker2 [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:17 -!- Smari [n=spm@nmi-gw.eyjar.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:27 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:37 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r646ca7e412f9 /pymates/pymates.py: first bus commit- still not working 09:37 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * ra237a27af8d4 /pymates/pymates.py: transform_point method 09:37 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * rd4ab462114fa /pymates/ (pymates.py shell.sh): nontransform_point and transform_point fixes 09:38 < kanzure> hm there's a #cooking 09:48 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-99-147-180-206.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:48 -!- Smari [n=spm@nmi-gw.eyjar.is] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:06 < kanzure> Hey Smari. 10:08 < kanzure> http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/blg/index.html Shulgin's blog 10:14 < Smari> y0 10:14 < Smari> I think one of the fiber optics out of Iceland just got fucked. 10:24 < kanzure> pymates.transform_point(-1.5,0,0) #transform_point() takes some coords and displays what it is like after the transform. x=-1.5 is required to get it aligned with the block-hole feature. 10:28 < CIA-44> skdb: * r419426cd5c12 / (.gitignore combined.dat skdb.py): build combined.dat on the fly 10:28 < CIA-44> skdb: * r0e9eccde2004 / (skdb.py tests.py): have to close the file to write it to disk; better error reporting 10:28 < CIA-44> skdb: * r4f42f5933512 /pymates/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb 10:30 < splicer-afk> Smari: it was apparently cut 17 times between 2003 and 2005, that's... a lot 10:31 < Smari> Yea 10:31 < splicer-afk> there really is only one fiber cable? 10:32 < Smari> No, there's three now. 10:32 < Smari> CANTAT-3, FarIce and DanIce. 10:32 < splicer-afk> sounds like a good idea 10:33 < Smari> But they're owned by different entities, all of which are overpricing access to them, and none of which are actually thinking of Internet as Infrastructure.. 10:34 < Smari> CANTAT-3 goes from the US to the UK, via Newfoundland, Iceland and the Faeroe Islands... it is, IIRC, 3x45MB, which was enough back in the day but sucks now... 10:35 < Smari> FarIce is a pretty fat pipe but it's severely overpriced - about three times as expensive to use as CANTAT-3, and all price deals are secret so different users have different deals... really annoying. 10:35 < splicer-afk> MB as in mega bytes? 10:35 < Smari> Yes. 10:35 < Smari> But I meant Megabits, sorry. :) 10:35 < splicer-afk> ; ) 10:35 < Smari> DanIce is new, taken into use on the 17th of June this year, it's fairly fat but intended only as a backup line. 10:35 < splicer-afk> hehe... doesn't make all that much difference 10:36 < Smari> Hey, it's 8 times less! 10:36 < splicer-afk> yeah but ; ) 10:36 < Smari> So long story short here is that we're severely underconnected. I know some folks who're working on a couple of lines that I can't talk about publicly yet, but there's a push to try and fix this shit. 10:37 < splicer-afk> I think it's a common problem... that politicians don't understand that it's infrastructure 10:38 < Smari> mhm 10:38 < Smari> It appears that the roof of the garage at home just collapsed. Nice. 10:39 < Smari> what the hell is happening today? 10:39 < splicer-afk> the solar eclipse 10:39 < splicer-afk> the end is neigh 10:41 < Smari> Ah, just got confirmation: CANTAT-3 is officially down. 10:41 < splicer-afk> has kurzweil set a date for the robot uprising btw? 10:45 < splicer-afk> (that's a very long cable CANTAT-3 ) 10:46 < Smari> Yes 10:46 < Smari> The failure seems to be... in Germany. 10:47 < splicer-afk> hehehe 11:10 < kanzure> hm why doesn't my mysql db have a root username? 11:10 < kanzure> also, why am I using mysql? 11:15 < Smari> kanzure, mysql is good 11:16 < Smari> root isn't important. 11:20 < fenn> are there constraint languages for describing how geometry is related to other geometry? 11:21 < Smari> There's some constraint stuff in povray. 11:22 < fenn> i'm hoping for something a less implementation dependent 11:22 < Smari> hm. 11:22 < Smari> that might be difficult. 11:22 < Smari> Considered writing your own? 11:23 < Smari> I'd love to see a very easy to use constraint system in Python :) 11:23 < fenn> absolutely not 11:23 < fenn> that's geo_1005's job 11:23 < fenn> er, geo01005 11:24 < Smari> geo01005? 11:24 < fenn> guy who's writing a constraint system for heekscad 11:24 < Smari> ah 11:24 < fenn> i'm just trying to say stuff like "the bandsaw must be perpendicular to the workpiece face" 11:24 < fenn> but in a way i can apply it to geometry 11:25 < fenn> hopefully someone has done all the hard thinking for me already 11:33 < kanzure> crud. I don't have a recent backup of the heybryan.org wiki. 11:33 < kanzure> does anyone have the database? 11:34 < fenn> good lord do i really have to go back to sutherland's SKETCHPAD just to get some decent theory 11:37 < kanzure> gah did I really just spend an hour yelling at mysql? 11:38 < kanzure> apparently mysqld --init-script is a kinda important option to know abou 11:38 < kanzure> *about 11:38 < kanzure> nobody use the wiki for now please. I'll be replacing the database (hopefully tonight) 11:49 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r88648679048a /pymates/pymates.py: transform_point now works properly 11:49 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r475506d18303 /pymates/pymates.py: rewrote mate_parts 11:49 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r7aa1e7ea7353 / (.gitignore combined.dat skdb.py tests.py): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://bryan@adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb 11:49 < kanzure> fenn: why didn't your changes show up via CIA? 11:52 < fenn> which changes? 11:52 < fenn> how do i diff to a remote repository? 11:53 < fenn> or at least diff the logs 11:54 < kanzure> git log -p ? 11:54 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * rbca8bfee467c /pymates/pymates.py: typos fixed, translation in part mating completed 11:54 < kanzure> now to do rotation. 11:54 < CIA-44> skdb: * r28e0ab71c376 /processes.yaml: constraintify path geometry for sweep 11:54 < CIA-44> skdb: * r0e9026607bda /pymates/pymates.py: Merge branch 'master' of ssh://adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb 11:55 < kanzure> no username? 12:00 < CIA-44> skdb: * rb8cbbcb00a66 /change.txt: testing cia author bug 12:00 < fenn> hm 12:00 < fenn> do you get "Use of uninitialized value $user in concatenation (.) or string at /var/www/skdb.git/ciabot_git.pl line 192." when you push 12:01 < kanzure> only sometimes 12:01 < kanzure> a few days ago I was getting that 12:01 < kanzure> but I didn't get that today 12:02 < fenn> maybe because my email doesnt have an @ sign? 12:03 < fenn> ($user) = $author =~ /<(.*?)@/; 12:03 < kanzure> why is it taking it from the email? it should be taking it from the username 12:03 < kanzure> the author name I mean 12:03 < fenn> right above that it says # XXX: Too trivial this way? 12:04 < kanzure> if I committed as "Bryan Bishop (kanzure@gmail.com)" would it still say kanzure? 12:12 < kanzure> so if I SetTranslation() and SetRotation(), that should cover everything that campbell was talking about? 12:13 < fenn> no 12:13 < fenn> you need two rotations, and the order matters 12:14 < fenn> which is why campbell wants a matrix, because the order doesnt matter (there's only one step) 12:15 < kanzure> so how do you determine the order? 12:16 < fenn> as long as the order is the same every time, it doesn't matter 12:16 < kanzure> you mean: x rotation first, then y rotation 12:16 < fenn> this is an arbitrary thing that has caused mathematical bloodshed over the ages 12:16 < kanzure> like that? 12:16 < fenn> like row, column vs column, row 12:16 < fenn> matrix notation 12:16 < kanzure> you mean matrix notation has caused bloodshed 12:17 < kanzure> not "x rotation first, then y rotation" 12:18 < fenn> both 12:18 * Smari is a proud owner of an ASUS EEEPC 1005HA. 12:18 < kanzure> fenn: but me setting my foot down and saying "first one then the other" will be the solution, yes? 12:18 < fenn> meh 12:18 < fenn> talk to campbell, not me 12:18 < kanzure> this isn't a philosophical question 12:19 < fenn> i said do rotations in the first place 12:19 < kanzure> what? 12:20 < kanzure> should probably look at the opengl superbible tonight 13:18 -!- maradydd [n=mlp@88.147.30.78] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:22 < kanzure> hey maradydd 13:32 -!- maradydd1 [n=mlp@88.147.40.184] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:41 < CIA-44> Tangiblebit: spm * rd4b88cd58e3d /tangiblebit.com/ (6 files in 4 dirs): XML and YAML exporters for Site model. XML Conforms to site.dtd. XMLRPC interfaces for fetching also implemented. 13:52 < kanzure> what's tangiblebit.com/sources/templates/fabmap/site.yaml for? I see the contents, but I'm not sure why you made it 13:53 < Smari> kanzure, it's a template 13:54 < Smari> kanzure, it's used by one of the views to generate YAML site listings. 13:54 < kanzure> ah okay the view outputs YAML 13:54 < Smari> yes 13:54 < Smari> So I just spent some time figuring out how I'd make the thing speak XML and YAML sensibly. 13:54 < Smari> Didn't arrive at an acceptable solution. 13:55 < Smari> but I did at least get two examples done. 13:55 < Smari> I want a very general function that just says what you want to output and in which format and it just solves the problem. 13:55 < Smari> currently I don't have that, but I'm close. 13:55 < Smari> Anyway. Dinner time. More fun soon. 13:57 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-82-175.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:59 < fenn> what template language is that? 13:59 < kanzure> that's django's internal stuff 13:59 < kanzure> they use their own custom language 13:59 < fenn> hmm 14:01 < ybit> 18:55 < xp_prg> Africa is a third world country and needs to save money so medical equipment is cheaper 14:01 < ybit> :P 14:01 < ybit> xp_prg: you made me laugh 14:01 < ybit> ty 14:02 < kanzure> ybit: fenn and I couldn't stop laughing :/ 14:02 < kanzure> ok, just me really 14:02 < fenn> can django views return other stuff besides text based formats? like can you run a command and return the result? 14:02 < kanzure> fenn: yep 14:02 < kanzure> fenn: it's all python. check out djangit/wiki/views.py 14:03 < ybit> sam rose is a student at utexas? 14:03 < kanzure> no 14:03 < ybit> he is in the area though right? 14:03 < kanzure> no 14:03 < ybit> not in texas 14:03 < fenn> dearborn michigan i think 14:03 < ybit> must have misread 14:03 < kanzure> that's definitely not texas 14:03 < ybit> something about running a usb drive by of the matweb scrape 14:04 < kanzure> oh crud. didn't do that today :( 14:04 < ybit> 14:16 < kanzure> you'll get it in about 10 seconds from adl.serveftp.org once I bring it in on a flash drive 14:04 < fenn> pigeons per TB is at an all time low 14:04 < ybit> took that to mean he was nearby 14:04 < fenn> ybit: upload from the machine which had the data is slow, but from here it's fast 14:04 < ybit> so what does he do, he seems knowledgeable about manufacturing processes 14:05 < kanzure> no he doesn't 14:05 < kanzure> :p 14:05 < fenn> social web stuffs, and he helped with openfarmtech 14:05 < ybit> well.. he had a difficult time understanding your view, but he seems to have some background in it.. 14:05 < fenn> more importantly he's not an idiot and wants to help 14:06 < kanzure> right 14:07 < ybit> i was in the process of testing pymates yesterday when i instinctively decided to get smashed :-\ 14:07 < ybit> apparently you aren't supposed to mix alcohol and anti-depressants 14:07 < ybit> think i mixed about 5 diff drugs 14:07 < ybit> not a good idea 14:10 * ybit needs a happy medium 14:13 < ybit> 16:04 < Smari> you just made it hilarious to say nothing. 14:16 < genehacker2> ybit, that sort of neural modification is not recommended 14:17 < ybit> yeah yeah 14:17 < ybit> thus 14:17 < ybit> 14:07 * ybit needs a happy medium 14:17 < kanzure> any guesses as to which type of angles OCC uses? degrees? radians? 14:18 * kanzure assumes degrees 14:18 < ybit> between using drugs (caffeine, alcohol, anti-depressants, adhd meds, mary) 14:19 < ybit> 11:31 < kanzure> crud. I don't have a recent backup of the heybryan.org wiki. 14:19 < genehacker2> I'm guessing radians 14:19 < ybit> i deleted mine kanzure :-\ 14:19 < ybit> but fenn seems to have copied it 14:19 < kanzure> ybit: I have a recent backup of the heybryan.org wiki, but not on a machine that is presently turned on. 14:19 < ybit> okay 14:20 < ybit> kanzure: if i sent you a 1tb hard drive, would it be much trouble to put a mirror image of heybryan on it? 14:20 < genehacker2> ILLEGAL NEUROMODIFICATION DETECTED 14:20 < kanzure> ybit: no trouble at all. it would be even better if it is an external hdd. 14:21 < ybit> or maybe i could setup a decent time to grab material from it, i.e. 2-6am 14:21 < kanzure> I suppose I really should fix things so that I have more speeds. 14:22 < genehacker2> http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/23042/ 14:22 < genehacker2> salmon dna can be quite useful I gues 14:40 < kanzure> printable stepper motor? 14:43 < genehacker2> yes 14:43 < genehacker2> a printable stepper motor 14:43 < genehacker2> after all I get free 3d prints on the stratasys 14:44 < kanzure> how do you print magnets? 14:44 < genehacker2> you don't 14:44 < kanzure> maybe I forget how a stepper motor is supposed to work 14:44 < genehacker2> it's pneumatic 14:44 < kanzure> link? 14:44 < genehacker2> it doesn't use electricity 14:44 < genehacker2> ok good 14:44 < genehacker2> forget 14:45 < genehacker2> this isn't like anything you've seen before 14:45 < genehacker2> it's a pneumatic wobble motor 14:47 < genehacker2> damn link rot 14:47 < genehacker2> http://www.act.sys.okayama-u.ac.jp/kouseigaku/research/okamoto_wobble_06/english.htm 14:48 < genehacker2> anyway look up pneumatic wobble motor in IEEE 14:48 < kanzure> how about you archive pages so that they don't rot 14:49 < genehacker2> good idea 14:49 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 14:49 < kanzure> genehacker2: on ubuntu you can run "wget -m -np http://link/goes/here" and it will archive the page and every page it links to 14:50 < genehacker2> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel4%2F5562%2F14922%2F00680893.pdf%3Farnumber%3D680893&ei=1GxnSvvUAY7WsQOqz5jtDg&usg=AFQjCNEFjpIEEELEI0lbZsWEmHEcau7xiw&sig2=CJ3uMXyfK_UjfIvKAO9Jhw 14:50 < genehacker2> here you go 14:50 < genehacker2> oops 14:50 < genehacker2> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=00680893 14:50 < genehacker2> better 14:50 < genehacker2> any way that's what I've been designing 14:50 < kanzure> what are you going to be using for a bladder? 14:51 < genehacker2> an RTV sealant grade silicone molded bladder made from a 3d printed mold or 3d printerd 14:52 < fenn> kanzure: plz download this to adl so i can do some experiments on the file 14:52 < fenn> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=00472593 14:52 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/ 14:52 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/A%20direct-drive%20pneumatic%20stepping%20motor%20for%20robots%20-%20designs%20for%20pipe-inspection%20microrobots%20and%20for%20human-care%20robots.pdf 14:54 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Evaluation%20of%20the%20micro%20wobble%20motor%20fabricated%20by%20concentric%20build-up%20process.pdf 14:54 < kanzure> blah? http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/mprg/ 14:55 < kanzure> huh: 14:55 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/diytranshuman_projects.txt 14:55 < fenn> google rip of manufacturing processes reference guide 14:56 < genehacker2> so what do you want to know about wobble motors? 14:56 < kanzure> how you make a bladder out of plastic 14:56 < genehacker2> you don't 14:56 < genehacker2> you make the molds for it 14:56 < fenn> why not squirt silicone goo 14:57 < genehacker2> then pour RTV silicone sealant grade into the mold 14:57 < kanzure> can't you pump down a plastic chamber? 14:57 < kanzure> or ump up 14:57 < kanzure> *pump 14:57 < fenn> you've seen the fab@home silicone parts right? 14:57 < fenn> directly extruded silicone 14:57 < genehacker2> yes 14:57 < fenn> why not do that instead? 14:58 < genehacker2> but the reason I'm not doing that is because molded parts may end up being stronger 14:58 < genehacker2> and I don't have a 3d printer that can print silicone 14:58 < fenn> do you have any quantitative data on the strength of deposited silicone? 14:58 < genehacker2> mainly reason 2 14:58 < genehacker2> no 14:59 < genehacker2> I don't 14:59 < genehacker2> but yes that is an option 14:59 < genehacker2> kanzure what do you mean by plastic chamber? 14:59 < fenn> i know platinum cured silicone is stronger in general, but maybe you could deposit that stuff too 15:00 < kanzure> wow first run of the simpler python with rotations instead of matrices, and it works perfectly 15:00 < kanzure> something must be wrong. 15:00 < fenn> write some unit tests 15:00 < genehacker2> though with an extrusion process you could embed nylon fiber into the silicone to make it stronger 15:01 < genehacker2> on? 15:01 < genehacker2> oops 15:01 < genehacker2> anyway that's sort of what I've been designing as of recently 15:01 < fenn> i think the problem would be delamination of the layers 15:01 < genehacker2> yeah 15:02 < fenn> there's no real reason you couldnt trace a grid over the surface 15:02 < genehacker2> well rupture is most likely along the axial 15:03 < Overand> Gr 15:03 < kanzure> hi Overand 15:03 < Overand> Hello. 15:03 < Overand> I'm feeling very organic today. 15:03 < kanzure> how are the polies? 15:03 * Overand raises an eyebrow. 15:03 < Overand> Hm. 15:03 < kanzure> the polyies 15:03 < Overand> Things are fine. 15:04 < Overand> my girlfriend (d8) is moving to another town in virginia 15:04 < Overand> going to grad school, advanced mathematics 15:04 < kanzure> what marks this fine occassion of you actually saying hi for once? 15:04 < Overand> I'm not sure. 15:04 < Overand> 12:21 < fenn> that's geo_1005's job 15:04 < Overand> that poked my nick-recognition 15:04 < Overand> "geo" has been a nick of mine 15:05 < kanzure> ah that's a fellow in #cam who is writing some software for something that fenn doesn't want to 15:06 < Overand> I'm tyring to get Chromium to play nicely with user scripts on linux 15:06 < kanzure> userscripts as in greasemonkey? 15:06 < Overand> that's the general idea, yes 15:06 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-76-252-64-240.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:06 < kanzure> or chromium as in the magickarpet-replacement? 15:06 < kanzure> *magic-carpet replacement 15:06 < kanzure> hi samrose 15:07 < Overand> Chromium as in the FOSS chunk of Google Chrome (browser) 15:07 < samrose> howdy 15:07 < kanzure> Overand: ah, well that's a namespace conflict I guess 15:07 < kanzure> oh well 15:08 < Overand> Is this the other app you're referring to? 15:08 < Overand> http://www.reptilelabour.com/software/chromium/ 15:08 < genehacker2> awesome 15:08 < kanzure> no, there's something like magic-carpet and xinerama named 'chromium' or something 15:09 < Overand> magic-carpet as in the bullfrog game? 15:09 < genehacker2> scraped a paper from the computer I did a presentation on today 15:09 < kanzure> xinerama is used for configuring multiple monitors 15:09 < Overand> That I am aware of 15:10 < Overand> I'm not finding this thing you're describing. 15:10 < genehacker2> and it's about the environmental effects of solid freeform fabrications 15:10 < Overand> Ahhh. 15:10 < Overand> That actually sounds slightly familiar 15:10 < Overand> apparently the 'chromium' namespace is more crowded than you realized =] 15:21 -!- drazak is now known as draz|lab 15:42 -!- samrose [n=samrose@adsl-76-252-64-240.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:46 < kanzure> tool cutting simulation http://www.opencascade.org/org/forum/thread_15765/ 15:47 < kanzure> importing dimensions from IGES files: http://www.opencascade.org/org/forum/thread_9486/ 16:02 -!- Lone_Wanderer1 [n=Dan@c-67-169-246-153.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:02 < Lone_Wanderer1> Because I already have way too many IRC channels open. 16:02 < kanzure> hey Lone_Wanderer1 16:02 -!- Lone_Wanderer1 is now known as Lone_Wanderer 16:02 < kanzure> yeah, I know the feeling 16:02 < kanzure> you're on pidgin? 16:03 < Lone_Wanderer> You should now know who I am. Yep. 16:03 < kanzure> I'm just about to go hop a bus, but maybe Smari or genehacker2 will entertain you for a while 16:03 < Lone_Wanderer> Dance, Smari, dance! I require entertainment! 16:03 < kanzure> exactly 16:04 * Lone_Wanderer calls for his pipe and his bowl and his fiddlers three. 16:06 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * rbbf234f99dc0 /pymates/ (models/blockhole.yaml models/peg.yaml pymates.py tests.py): rotation for part mating. also, added some unit tests. wondering how to get location XYZs. 16:06 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r0d249dd95711 /change.txt: Merge branch 'master' of ssh://bryan@adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb 16:06 < CIA-44> skdb: * rc16a26d8b806 /supplemental_units.dat: more 16:06 < CIA-44> skdb: * r877ea68c28f5 /processes.yaml: added mig welding 16:06 < CIA-44> skdb: * rf5eb9a7b08dc /pymates/ (models/blockhole.yaml models/peg.yaml pymates.py tests.py): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb 16:07 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * rf2b8f9a20203 /change.txt: deleted change 16:07 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r221f6151b1b9 / (processes.yaml supplemental_units.dat): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://bryan@adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb 16:07 < kanzure> blah? so much merging 16:07 * kanzure goes home 16:57 -!- freedom_ is now known as Phreedom 17:07 < kanzure> hey Lone_Wanderer. I'm available now. 17:07 < ybit> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/screenshots/output.png 17:07 < ybit> wow 17:08 < ybit> skdb/pymates $ python pymates.py 17:08 < ybit> Traceback (most recent call last): 17:08 < ybit> File "pymates.py", line 20, in 17:08 < ybit> import OCC.gp 17:08 < ybit> ImportError: No module named OCC.gp 17:08 < ybit> argh 17:08 < kanzure> have you installed pythonOCC? 17:08 < ybit> yeah 17:08 < ybit> i think it needs to be added to my python PATH 17:09 < kanzure> ok maybe not 17:21 < ybit> dunno 17:21 < ybit> will have to look at it later tonight 17:21 < ybit> going to get the interlibrary loans, yay 17:21 < ybit> ..in just a bit 17:22 < ybit> first: what are some of the first tools we want to teach people to use with toolbook? 17:23 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:23 < ybit> suppose this question is related to what is the machine to build with an skdb setup 17:23 < ybit> +first 17:24 < ybit> |first machines 17:25 < ybit> it's not imperative to know, but i am curious 17:26 < fenn> the easiest, most broadly useful one 17:26 < fenn> probably CNC mill 17:27 < fenn> "first machine to build" given what starting materials and components and tools? 17:29 < Smari> Lone_Wanderer, are you mocking my lindy sk1llz? 17:34 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-82-175.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:41 -!- genehacker2 [n=noko@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:41 < genehacker2> e-beam lithography machines 17:55 -!- draz|lab is now known as drazak 18:14 < ybit> 17:25 < fenn> "first machine to build" given what starting materials and components and tools? 18:15 < ybit> not sure, just finding out what ya had in mind 18:19 < ybit> are there plans online which you have in mind for this cnc (similar to http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/11/how-to-build-your-own-cnc-machine-part-3/) or are you just winging it since it's a relatively simple machine to build 18:20 < ybit> winging it = building a cnc maching by memory and intuition 18:21 < ybit> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Three-Axis-CNC-Machine-Cheaply-and-/ is the other build your own cnc which comes to mind 18:22 < Lone_Wanderer> Smari: No, not mocking. 18:23 < ybit> bkero: what was the cost of your welder? 18:23 < bkero> ybit: $15 18:23 * ybit get to experiment with welding at the junkyard in about a week 18:23 < ybit> nice 18:23 < bkero> It can be as free as you want 18:23 < ybit> did you mention instructions on how to build it? 18:24 < bkero> Yea, they're on Instructables. 18:24 < ybit> http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Microwave-Transformer-Homemade-Welder/ 18:25 < bkero> Yea, tha'ts it. 18:25 < ybit> nice 18:48 < Lone_Wanderer> Isn't 50 amps a ridiculous amount of power? 18:48 < Lone_Wanderer> Well, current technically. 18:55 < ybit> fenn: i like these books 18:55 < ybit> got manufacturing processes reference guide from auburn, last it was checked out: oct 1 2003 18:56 < ybit> also recieved fundamental principles of manufacturing processes and computerized manufacturing process planning systems 19:04 < splicer-afk> kanzure: If you didn't find the mysql root password try the same as your login password 19:05 < ybit> or reinstall mysql 19:06 < kanzure> no, I got it 19:06 < kanzure> just need to boot up the other machine now I guess 19:07 < Lone_Wanderer> splicer-afk: you don't need to reinstall mysql, you can kill it and restart it with the --skipping-grant-tables option 19:07 < Lone_Wanderer> then you can log in with no pw at all and reset the root pw for it 19:07 < Lone_Wanderer> of course, kill -9ing mysql runs the risk of interrupting any query that's in progress, so you'll want to do an integrity check on the tables afterward 19:08 < splicer-afk> Lone_Wanderer: yup 19:09 < Lone_Wanderer> Now for some Coeur de Pirate 19:12 < Smari> Lone_Wanderer, indeed, why would you mock the ability of a master?! :P 19:13 < Lone_Wanderer> Smari: I was demanding that you dance for my entertainment :p 19:13 < Lone_Wanderer> Don't look at me like that, kanzure suggested it. 19:14 < Smari> Lone_Wanderer, *shrug* 19:14 < Smari> Search for "Lindy Hop" on YouTube and imagine it's me. 19:15 < splicer-afk> well... this _is_ the world domination irc 19:15 < Lone_Wanderer> I would but I'm busy listening to a ridiculously cute Quebecoise 19:15 < Lone_Wanderer> on YouTube 19:15 < kanzure> so, Lone_Wanderer, you were wondering about microfluidics? 19:15 < Lone_Wanderer> yeah 19:15 < Lone_Wanderer> like, what's the point 19:16 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:16 < Lone_Wanderer> It seems like a lot of work just to mix a few things together. 19:16 < kanzure> yeah but not if you do a highly parallelized system for example 19:17 < Lone_Wanderer> okay 19:17 < kanzure> Phreedom: so yeah, sciencedirect sucks like that because of the popup 19:17 < Lone_Wanderer> ahh, the post-workout hunger, it is beginning 19:17 < Lone_Wanderer> I must go 19:17 < kanzure> but there might be a way to figure out the javascript 19:17 < kanzure> and then just harvest the paper directly each time 19:17 < kanzure> if you write a script to do that, you would be a hero to us all in here 19:18 < kanzure> hey samrose 19:19 < samrose> figure out javascript and harvest which paper directly each time? 19:19 < kanzure> sciencedirect 19:19 < kanzure> I hate clicking 19:19 < kanzure> maybe some zotero wrappers will work 19:20 < Lone_Wanderer> Smari: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjhuu_sIJL8 - Warning - mood hazard 19:20 < kanzure> http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/start 19:20 < samrose> you want to get the pdf directly for a given article eh? 19:21 < kanzure> yeah that would be nice 19:21 < samrose> I am actually working with one of the people from zotero right now on a project 19:21 < kanzure> I have some code that already does this .. sort of 19:21 < samrose> :) 19:21 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/projects/autoscholar/ 19:21 < kanzure> samrose: do you know which zotero files I need to parse? 19:21 < samrose> wget http:urltopdf :-D 19:21 < kanzure> no 19:21 < samrose> Just kidding 19:21 < kanzure> sigh 19:21 < samrose> just a joke 19:22 < samrose> I don't know, but if you can email me a quick description of what you hope to do, I can pass it on 19:22 < samrose> to zotero folk 19:22 < samrose> they will likely give an answer 19:22 < kanzure> do you know the location of the "central repository" that is referenced on this page? 19:22 < kanzure> http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/overview_of_zotero_and_the_technologies_it_uses 19:23 * samrose reading 19:23 < kanzure> er it's the block of text near the bottom 19:24 < samrose> kanzure, that is just referring to an error reporting mechanism that reports back to zotero 19:25 < samrose> wait 19:25 < samrose> I see 19:25 < kanzure> ew it seems to be a collection of JavaScript files 19:25 < kanzure> it's in zotero/translators/ 19:25 < samrose> what you are saying 19:25 < kanzure> svn co https://www.zotero.org/svn/extension/trunk/ zotero 19:25 < kanzure> look at the javascript files in there 19:25 < kanzure> god this sucks 19:27 < samrose> I am googling now to see if I can find URL to central repo 19:27 < Smari> Lone_Wanderer, evil. 19:27 < samrose> kanzure could be these http://www.zotero.org/styles 19:28 < samrose> kanzure looks like those are style repos 19:29 < kanzure> no 19:29 < kanzure> I think you should look at the files in the repository instead. 19:29 < kanzure> I already found them. it's no big deal. 19:29 < samrose> ah, ok 19:29 < samrose> what are you trying to do with that central repo? 19:30 < samrose> yes, it is all javascript 19:31 < kanzure> you're so hard to talk with 19:31 < kanzure> do you even read my messages? 19:31 -!- splicer-afk [n=patrik@h189n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:31 -!- splicer [n=patrik@h189n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:31 < samrose> I came in on but there might be a way to figure out the javascript 19:31 < samrose> and then just harvest the paper directly each time 19:31 < samrose> if you write a script to do that, you would be a hero to us all in here 19:31 < samrose> but was not in channel to see the rest 19:32 < kanzure> so what 19:32 < kanzure> I think it should be obvious from that, and my link, what I am talking about 19:32 < ybit> kanzure, fenn: occ.gp is from what exactlt? 19:32 < Smari> hahaha 19:32 < kanzure> ybit: pythonOCC 19:32 < Smari> kanzure, come now, you're not very easy to talk to either. 19:32 < kanzure> Smari: at least I don't forget everything 20 seconds later :p 19:33 < Smari> on the contrary, you remember things that haven't even been discussed yet! 19:33 < kanzure> oh? 19:33 < ybit> 19:30 < kanzure> Smari: at least I don't forget everything 20 seconds later :p 19:33 < ybit> referring to me, aye? :P 19:33 < kanzure> ybit: no 19:34 < ybit> i was actually looking for occ.gp in pythonocc dirs, but nothing came up 19:34 < kanzure> ybit: it's OCC.gp btw 19:34 < ybit> right 19:34 < kanzure> ybit: did you install pythonocc successfully? 19:34 < ybit> yeah 19:34 < ybit> not a problem 19:34 < ybit> i even drew a line or two :P 19:35 < kanzure> wtf? 19:35 < kanzure> and you didn't have OCC.gp? 19:35 < kanzure> how did you draw a line if you couldn't use OCC.gp.gp_Pnt() ? 19:35 < ybit> aha NLPlate.py TopTrans.py 19:35 < ybit> ChFi2d.py OSD.py TopoDS.py 19:35 < ybit> ChFi3d.py ObjMgt.py TopoDSToStep.py 19:35 < ybit> not seeing it 19:35 < ybit> -aha 19:35 < kanzure> which version of python are you using? 19:35 < ybit> 2.6.2 19:36 < kanzure> did you check your /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/ ? 19:36 < ybit> gp.py exists, close 19:36 < kanzure> where does it exist? 19:36 < ybit> ~/builds/pythonOCC-wo0.2/src/OCC 19:36 < kanzure> er, did you run python setup.py install? 19:37 < ybit> for pyobjects? 19:37 < kanzure> or if you used scons, did you run scons mode=install 19:37 < kanzure> when compiling pythonocc 19:37 < ybit> oh wait for pythonocc, yeah i did 19:37 < ybit> i used setup.py 19:37 < kanzure> can you do "import OCC" ? 19:37 < ybit> yeah 19:37 < kanzure> you have bpython yet? 19:37 < ybit> well i could -_- 19:37 < ybit> yeah 19:37 < samrose> kanzure have you tried this?: 19:37 < samrose> Click on the Actions menu in the Zotero window (the gear icon), then select Preferences... -> General -> Miscellaneous -> Automatically attach associated PDFs and other files when saving items. 19:37 < ybit> hmm, maybe something was deleted 19:38 < kanzure> type "import OCC." and see what comes up 19:38 < kanzure> samrose: yes I already do that 19:38 < kanzure> samrose: I am very disinterested in using firefox forever however 19:38 < ybit> ImportError: No module named OCC 19:38 < ybit> something to do with PATH i'm guessing 19:38 < kanzure> ybit: yeah something is wrong :) 19:38 < kanzure> there's also a PYTHON_PATH or something 19:38 < samrose> how do you think that I could infer that you are NOT using firefox browser, my man? 19:38 < ybit> right 19:38 < kanzure> samrose: by the autoscholar page 19:38 < kanzure> I said I was disinterested in using it 19:38 < kanzure> not that I am not using it 19:39 < kanzure> but anyway, yes, zotero's auto-pdf-download feature is nice 19:39 < kanzure> in particular autoscholar could use some zotero wrappers 19:39 < kanzure> preferably python zotero wrappers 19:39 < kanzure> but according to the javascript, it's heavily dependent on running in a browser 19:39 < kanzure> so I might as well right my own scraper utility (yet again) 19:40 < kanzure> HtmlUnit could be used for webscraping I guess 19:40 < kanzure> (it runs javascript, XmlHttpRequest, etc.) 19:41 < kanzure> ybit: figured it out? 19:44 < ybit> uh, no. was reading some docs on org-mode 19:47 < samrose> I deem this pretty big fuckin mess http://heybryan.org/projects/autoscholar/ 19:47 < samrose> but, if it works for you, cool 19:47 < kanzure> well if you have something better, please tell me about it 19:48 < ybit> http://k3dsurf.sourceforge.net/ :: K3DSurf is a program to visualize and manipulate Mathematical models in three, four, five and six dimensions. K3DSurf supports Parametric equations and Isosurfaces. 19:48 < samrose> well, just bitching aloud 19:48 < samrose> if you do use zotero 19:48 < kanzure> but zotero depends on firefox 19:48 < kanzure> but it shouldn't 19:48 < kanzure> surfraw existed a long time ago 19:48 < samrose> you could probably run it like a lib, which is what I assume you were talking about 19:49 < samrose> so, you'd pipe to ff and zotero 19:49 < kanzure> no 19:49 < kanzure> there's no reason to use firefox at all 19:49 < kanzure> that's a huge memory hog for something that only needs a few kilobytes 19:50 < samrose> I wonder if the zotero js might run without ff, with some adjustments 19:50 < kanzure> http://htmlunit.sourceforge.net/ 19:50 < samrose> this could be useful as a service for many things 19:51 < kanzure> why is it that you're only interested in it now 19:51 < kanzure> I've been yapping about this stuff to you for years :p 19:51 < Lone_Wanderer> kanzure: So does sciencedirect use zotero's libraries or something? 19:52 < kanzure> Lone_Wanderer: no 19:52 < kanzure> Lone_Wanderer: zotero is a firefox extension 19:52 < Lone_Wanderer> but it's sciencedirect's papers you want right? 19:52 < kanzure> it basically scrapes data from a webpage 19:52 < ybit> http://pastebin.com/f45617c0d :: some programs on caelinux 19:52 < kanzure> well, that's just one service 19:52 < Lone_Wanderer> oh yeah, all FF extensions are in JS afaik 19:52 < ybit> + a few more i added 19:52 < samrose> it is possible to run js as standalone program it seems 19:53 < samrose> if anyone cares 19:53 < Lone_Wanderer> long and short of it, though, is that you want to get to sciencedirect's papers without having to click on a bunch of garbage? 19:53 < kanzure> samrose: that's why I keep linking to htmlunit 19:53 < kanzure> Lone_Wanderer: more or less, yes. 19:53 < Lone_Wanderer> ok 19:53 < ybit> also... emc2 and something like pyCAM needs to go on there ( i forget the name of it) 19:53 < kanzure> Lone_Wanderer: so, I have this script that shares papers across my servers 19:53 < kanzure> ybit: cam.py 19:53 < samrose> htmlunit is one way, sure 19:53 < kanzure> Lone_Wanderer: so anyway, what I have is over 40 GB of papers from Nature 19:53 < Lone_Wanderer> ok 19:53 < kanzure> and I have this script that throws them up on my screen 19:53 < ybit> ah 19:53 < kanzure> and it's basically like "TV but for science" 19:53 < Lone_Wanderer> cool 19:53 < kanzure> anyway it would be nice to be able to use some python to keep this system running and so on 19:54 < kanzure> and allow people in this channel to add papers to the distribution 19:54 < Lone_Wanderer> "TV but for science, only REALLY for science, not that alien conspiracy theory crap that's all over the Discovery Channel these days." 19:54 < ybit> and gEDA & k3dsurf should go on the list.. 19:54 < kanzure> without having to open up firefox each time they get a citation 19:54 < genehacker2> blast something's wrong with my rolamite design 19:54 < Lone_Wanderer> Oh, so you want to be able to get a citation and just go straight to it 19:54 < kanzure> Lone_Wanderer: yes 19:54 < kanzure> all this other website stuff is just bullshit 19:54 < Lone_Wanderer> but usually you have to go to sciencedirect and they make it a pain 19:54 < kanzure> not if you use zotero's scrapers 19:55 < Lone_Wanderer> oh, but zotero requires FF which you don't want to put up with either 19:55 < kanzure> right 19:55 < Lone_Wanderer> amirite? 19:55 < Lone_Wanderer> zotero will scrape anything, right? not just sciencedirect? 19:55 < kanzure> it has a library of different scraping templates 19:55 < kanzure> so it scrapes stuff that it knows about 19:55 < Lone_Wanderer> 'cause if it's a general purpose scraper than duplicating the functionality should be trivial 19:56 < kanzure> the "templates" are custom js for each different domain 19:56 < kanzure> nope, not general at all :( 19:56 < Lone_Wanderer> well 19:56 < kanzure> it scrapes the metadata too, which is nice. 19:56 < Lone_Wanderer> if we can find the JS for sciencedirect 19:56 < Lone_Wanderer> then that should tell us all we need to know 19:56 < kanzure> yeah but I don't care about just sciencedirect 19:56 < kanzure> anyway 19:56 < kanzure> I'll play around with htmlunit and see if it can run zotero 19:58 < samrose> Lone_wanderer kanzure is saying that he needs to run zotero as sort of library, and use it's capacities to extract pdf, metadata etc, but that he would like to leave behind Firefox. this is doable, but needs a way to run js as standalone code 19:58 < Lone_Wanderer> right 19:58 < kanzure> htmlunit and jython 19:58 < samrose> there is also http://code.google.com/p/jslibs/ though I have never used it 19:59 < samrose> htmlunit and jython could work well 19:59 < kanzure> I've been avoiding jython for some reason (I don't know why- probably a vomit reaction to java) 20:00 < samrose> java is actually a great programming lang 20:00 < Lone_Wanderer> java or javascript? 20:00 < samrose> Java 20:00 < Lone_Wanderer> Lies. You are a heathen sinner. 20:00 < Lone_Wanderer> 20:00 < samrose> The problem is really JVM 20:01 < samrose> in my opinion 20:01 < Lone_Wanderer> I dislike the entire language 20:01 < Lone_Wanderer> personally 20:01 < kanzure> java was forced down my throat in high school.. *after* I learned C/C++, perl, and all sorts of other languages 20:01 < kanzure> so it was kind of like "I know you are bullshitting me" 20:01 < kanzure> and that didn't go well with javac 20:02 < Lone_Wanderer> But it's useful for places where you have to be able to swap out programmers 20:02 < Lone_Wanderer> and don't care how good they are 20:04 < genehacker2> now that's odd 20:06 < genehacker2> my rolamite generator should have worked 20:11 < kanzure> hm maybe a TopoShape_Shape() doesn't have a location 20:11 < kanzure> unless it's given one 20:23 < samrose> jslibs and htmlunit are pretty cool 20:23 < samrose> playing around with them for a moment 20:25 < kanzure> be sure to take noets 20:25 < kanzure> *notes 20:26 < samrose> from our end, we are interested in building web services, and running locally 20:26 < samrose> but, it doesn't really matter 20:26 < samrose> whether it is local or web based 20:26 < samrose> zotero could be a lib 20:27 < samrose> outside of browser 20:27 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r774c73611cf9 /pymates/tests.py: almost done with a single unit test. gasp. 20:27 < samrose> which would kick ass 20:32 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #hplusroadmap ["Ex-Chat"] 21:05 -!- Lone_Wanderer [n=Dan@c-67-169-246-153.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:07 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:14 < kanzure> split loom tubing 21:14 < kanzure> "I used to deliver to a company in santa cruz county that made a lightweight plastic hose with a slit down the middle to insert all the cables into. So instead of a bunch of different cables you just had one big 'hose' running through your room. It was a more organized look, sorry I can't remember the name of the company but you can probably modify something to do the same thing." 21:15 < kanzure> http://lifehacker.com/237789/diy-under+desk-gadget-mount 21:15 < samrose> this is used on like every car in existence 21:15 < samrose> or was back in 80's and 90's anyway 21:16 < samrose> I wouldn't have been able to recall the name of it either 21:22 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:23 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:23 < kanzure> I have no idea wtf this is saying: http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1311799&cid=28788557 21:23 -!- samrose [n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:31 < kanzure> fenn: have you asked your emc buddies for hq advice yet? 21:35 -!- splicer [n=patrik@h189n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:36 < kanzure> bibtex examples } 21:36 < kanzure> http://www.cs.aau.dk/~normark/scheme/examples/bibtex/sample.bib 21:38 < genehacker2> did you go to LA yet? 21:38 < kanzure> no 21:38 < genehacker2> ok 21:39 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/bibliographies/ 21:39 < kanzure> (a link I just sent over to Phreedom) 21:40 < CIA-44> Tangiblebit: spm * r49385eb21f33 /tangiblebit.com/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Map and LatLon selector development. Why the hell doesn't OpenLayers have a DragMarker class?! 21:40 < Smari> gn! 21:40 < kanzure> never! 21:41 < Phreedom> kanzure: ok 21:41 < kanzure> anywho phreedom is writing some scrapers apparently 21:42 < kanzure> I'm trying to convince him to grab the metadata 21:42 < kanzure> :) 21:42 < Phreedom> although it's not necessarily as simple 21:42 < kanzure> ok, s/grab/grab and parse/ 21:46 < genehacker2> hey kanzure got a question 21:47 < kanzure> okay 21:47 < genehacker2> for producing photolabile nucleosides with NPPOC-Cl are there any other chemical required other than NPPOC-Cl and nucleosides? 21:48 < kanzure> no I think it was just nucleoside+NPPOC -> protected nucleosides 21:49 < genehacker2> and there aren't any other chemicals required for DNA synthesis 21:49 < kanzure> sure there are 21:50 < kanzure> once you deprotect the nucleosides, what do you think should happen 21:50 < genehacker2> ??? 21:51 < fenn> yuck re: answer to #7 http://www.depressedmetabolism.com/2009/05/11/interview-with-alcor-member-david-croft/ 21:51 < genehacker2> you add the next nucleotide? 21:52 < kanzure> oh I'm a member of the society for universal immortalism already apparently 21:52 < kanzure> cryobaptist church! haha 21:52 < kanzure> "I also have a webpage for my “Cryobaptist Church” which makes the tongue in cheek assertion that salvation can be achieved by a post-mortem baptism in liquid Nitrogen." 21:53 < fenn> do they actually use liquid nitrogen? 21:53 < kanzure> at alcor? yes 21:53 < kanzure> also at cryonics institute (.eu) 21:53 < genehacker2> 5‘-tert-butyldiphenylsilylated nucleosides 21:54 < fenn> i mean, once you're frozen it doesnt matter, but they dont just dip you in liquid nitrogen like a banana? 21:54 < kanzure> no, not at first 21:54 < genehacker2> it says that they NPPOC-Cl was combined with 5‘-tert-butyldiphenylsilylated nucleosides 21:54 < kanzure> you're put on ice and your core temps are dropped slowly 21:54 < kanzure> there's this funky curve they have to follow so that ice crystals don't build up 21:54 < kanzure> curve is temperature drop with respect to time 21:54 < genehacker2> they add cryoprotectants 21:54 < fenn> i froze a goldfish once.. it didnt survive 21:55 < genehacker2> you didn't add cryoprotectants 21:55 < kanzure> genehacker2: stfu 21:55 < fenn> they're supposed to have built-int cryoprotectants 21:55 < fenn> but you have to keep them in cold water for weeks before-hand 21:55 < kanzure> cryoprotectants do not stop ice crystal formation 21:55 < fenn> and that too 21:56 < kanzure> also I'm not sure if these crystals form at ice water temperatures 21:56 < kanzure> this is more like getting near negative 200 fahrenheit 21:56 < genehacker2> they slow down ice crystal formation 21:56 < kanzure> genehacker2: not as much as you'd think 21:56 < genehacker2> dang 21:56 < genehacker2> so for the most part just liquid nitrogen? 21:57 < kanzure> yeah after the cool down phase it's just liquid nitrogen forever 21:57 < genehacker2> don't they take people to below the glass transition temperature? 21:58 < fenn> arent glasses defined by a cooling rate, not a particular temperature? 21:59 < genehacker2> I think you might be right 22:03 < katsmeow-afk> it was my impression that the crystal formaton was too rapid, and too many, for any to grow to damaging size, if the freezing was done rapidly enough 22:05 < kanzure> huh that's weird, from what I've read you want to freeze *slowly* 22:05 < kanzure> not rapidly. 22:05 < katsmeow-afk> which way gets you longer ice crystals? 22:06 < katsmeow-afk> slow 22:06 < genehacker2> that's what the cryoprotectants are fore 22:06 < katsmeow-afk> if you get a ton of *small* crystals, at least cell walls aren't perforated, and there's more open space betweenthem 22:06 < kanzure> genehacker2: again, the cryoprotectants are added to the bloodstream 22:06 < kanzure> they don't magically permeate throughout the entire body 22:08 < genehacker2> In artificial cryopreservation, the solute must penetrate the cell membrane in order to achieve increased viscosity and depressed freezing temperature inside the cell. Sugars do not readily permeate through the membrane. Those solutes that do, such as dimethyl sulfoxide, a common cryoprotectant, are often toxic in high concentration. One of the difficult compromises faced in artificial cryopreservation is limiting the damage pro 22:09 < genehacker2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryopreservation 22:14 < genehacker2> now if we could find a way to vitrify tissue without that annoying cryoprotectant 22:17 < Phreedom> kanzure: http://www.bibconverter.net/ 22:32 < genehacker2> now I wonder if one could put really a bunch of really tiny current loops in solution 22:32 < genehacker2> and have the current loops tuned such that they emit radiofrequency when a current flows through them 22:33 < genehacker2> if one could cool the solution with the current loops by placing them in a pulsed magnetic field 22:34 < katsmeow-afk> a strong enough dc magnetic field to dampen molecular vibrations? 22:34 < genehacker2> the current loops would be so small they'd get jostled around by brownian motion 22:34 < genehacker2> yeah 22:36 < genehacker2> applying a magnetic field would generate a current in the moving current loops, which would emit radio waves, effectively cooling down a solution 22:38 < katsmeow-afk> i doubt it would respond fast enough 22:38 < genehacker2> but would it cool stuff down? 22:38 < katsmeow-afk> and radio is ac, so a damping leading edge would be followed by a exiting trailing edge 22:38 < katsmeow-afk> exciting 22:38 < genehacker2> what do you mean? 22:39 < katsmeow-afk> apparently not enough to be useful, sorry 22:39 < genehacker2> well maybe not useful in small magnetic fields... 22:42 < genehacker2> though the real question is could you put a really tiny magnet in a solution in proximity to a coil hook it up to a resistor in a box of the same temperature and violate the second law of thermodyanmics 22:44 < CIA-44> skdb: kanzure * r7014001af10f /pymates/ (pymates.py tests.py): added in a partial unit test involving BRepAlgoAPI and building of parts within the unit tests 23:03 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]