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06:49 < kanzure> Maillard reaction
06:49 < kanzure> Advanced Glycation Endproducts
06:50 < kanzure> "In a very real sense we are constantly cooking ever so slowly for our entire lives, but because our temperature is so low it takes a century or so just to reach “rare”.  "
07:10 < kanzure> "Dr. Denis Wilson pioneered the concept of resetting daytime body temperature. Dr. Wilson offered a decapitated body model of temperature resetting based on reverse T3 (a thyroid hormone) diversion. While his methods were sometimes successful, he nonetheless had his medical license suspended in 1991 due to flaws in his model."
07:25 < kanzure> http://www.sciencemag.org.ezproxy.lib.utexas.edu/cgi/content/abstract/sci;281/5378/825
07:25 < kanzure> "Circadian rhythms control many physiological activities. The environmental entrainment of rhythms involves the immediate responses of clock components. Levels of the clock protein FRQ were measured in Neurospora at various temperatures; at higher temperatures, the amount of FRQ oscillated around higher levels. Absolute FRQ amounts thus identified different times at different temperatures, so temperature shifts corresponded to shifts in clock time without immediate synthesis or turnover of components. Moderate temperature changes could dominate light-to-dark shifts in the influence of circadian timing. Temperature regulation of clock components could explain temperature resetting of rhythms and how single transitions can initiate rhythmicity from characteristic circadian phases. "
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09:19 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r2f194a2a501b /occ_shell.py: fix occ_shell inline documentation
09:20 < CIA-43> Tangiblebit: spm * r8ca1a34ad029 /tangiblebit.com/clients/XMLRPCAuth.py: Added XMLRPC authenticated client based on Troy Melhase's code.
09:20 < CIA-43> Tangiblebit: spm * r3e910059c93e /tangiblebit.com/unittests/ (siteparser.py sitetest.xml): Adding some (broken) tests.
09:23 < ybit> where is the tangiblebit code
09:23 < ybit> ^Smari
09:23 < kanzure> Smari: check out skdb/tests.py for usage of the 'unittest' module in python.
09:24 < Smari> kanzure, I know how to use it. I'm just not actually making "unit tests" as such right now, but rather just testing things that will later belong in various units.
09:24 < kanzure> okay
09:24 < Smari> kanzure, for some reason this naming made sense to me anyway.
09:24 < Smari> ybit, http://www.tangiblebit.com/tangiblebit.git
09:25 < Smari> ybit, if you want commit rights, say so.
09:25 < kanzure> bit.git is nice :p
09:26 < kanzure> Smari: have you checked out pyscholar yet?
09:27 < Smari> no.
09:27 < kanzure> it's a python wrapper to Google Scholar that likes to pretend that it is zotero
09:27 < ybit> ~/projects $ git clone  http://www.tangiblebit.com/tangiblebit.git
09:27 < ybit> Initialized empty Git repository in /home/heath/projects/tangiblebit/.git/
09:27 < ybit> fatal: http://www.tangiblebit.com/tangiblebit.git/info/refs not found: did you run git update-server-info on the server?
09:27 < kanzure> git clone git://github.com/kanzure/pyscholar.git
09:27 < Smari> fail
09:27 < kanzure> or on the web: http://github.com/kanzure/pyscholar/tree/master
09:28 < Smari> I'm having trouble with wireless on my new EeePC.. not getting any real work done until that's fixed.
09:28 < Smari> what is pyscholar?
09:29 < kanzure> it's a python wrapper to Google Scholar that likes to pretend that it is zotero
09:29 < Smari> Urgh, there's one key missing from the Eee keyboard... the one that makes <, > and | on the Icelandic keymap.
09:29 < Smari> kanzure, zotero?
09:29 < kanzure> zotero is this firefox extension that automagically scrapes metadata from scientific journals (as well as the PDF for a paper)
09:30 < kanzure> but it's stupid because it's built into fucking firefox
09:30 < Smari> ah
09:30 < Smari> sounds cool.
09:30 < Smari> Sounds very cool actually
09:30 < Smari> shall check immediately.
09:30 < kanzure> :)
09:30 < kanzure> it's only partially working at the moment- google scholar queries work, but none of the scrapers are fully functional
09:31 < kanzure> there's a partial sciencedirect scraper in the works.
09:31 < kanzure> everytihng in results/ is the output of the engine
09:31 < Smari> haha. apt-get install git-core. :P
09:31 < Smari> I love new computers
09:31 < kanzure> everything in tests/ are HTML documents that serve as examples for parsing (so that I don't query the real sites every 10 seconds trying out my fixes)
09:32 < Smari> mhm
09:32 < Smari> How would I map the <>| key to the windows key?
09:32 < Smari> (they're almost in the same location... :))
09:42 < ybit> Smari: kde or gnome?
09:42 < CIA-43> djangit: Meredith L. Patterson master * r77d1d6e / templates/view.html : view.html not prettyprinted but much better now - http://bit.ly/UcT4t
09:42 < CIA-43> djangit: kanzure master * r4bc96ba / docs/TODO : notes on what I should be doing - http://bit.ly/zZouI
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09:47 < Smari> pyscholar looks promising. Have you looked into using Beautiful Soup as a scraper?
09:47 < Smari> http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/ iirc.
09:47 < Smari> food! bbl.
09:47 < ybit> Smari: if you get time...
09:47 < ybit> 09:24 < ybit> fatal: http://www.tangiblebit.com/tangiblebit.git/info/refs not found: did you run git update-server-info on the server?
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10:57 < drazak> hmm
10:57 < drazak> I wonder if it'd be fun to maintain roundworms
11:05 < Smari> ybit, gnome.
11:05 < Smari> ybit, sorry, was out for food.
11:14 < Smari> kanzure, Beautiful Soup is made of win.
11:16 < kanzure> Smari: xpaths are also made of win. 
11:16 < kanzure> I can nearly copy and paste from zotero's definition files into pyscholar
11:16 < kanzure> since they both use xpaths :)
11:17 < kanzure> not only that, but javascript is sufficiently similar to python to not induce many headaches
11:17 < kanzure> now I just need to figure out a proper class structure for all of this.
11:18 < kanzure> there was once an app called "xgoogle" that had a class called GoogleScholarSearch which managed all the nitty-gritty
11:18 < kanzure> but am I going to have a class for each different website?
11:18 < kanzure> does that even make sense?
11:18 < kanzure> I guess each class could inherit from a basic scraper definition
11:19 < kanzure> and then each child class would then just rewrite individual methods where needed (?)
11:22 < CIA-43> pyscholar: kanzure master * rf9f6ae7 / (10 files in 2 dirs): added xgoogle archive - http://bit.ly/74wAs
11:24 < kanzure> Hey. I'm trying to remember an interesting project I once found. It was this python web scraping library (not beautifulsoup) that had templates for typical scrapes that everyone has to do sooner or later. I don't remember the name of the package. Any ideas?
11:26 < Smari> kanzure, ah, neat.
11:27 < kanzure> Smari: last night I asked around for some ideas on what shell utilities would be nice for getting papers
11:27 < kanzure> "get" and "search" are some obvious shell utilities that would be nice to have,
11:27 < kanzure> but I'm fuzzy on what the specifics should be
11:29 < Smari> kanzure, searching by category, classification scheme, author, keyword,...
11:33 < Smari> It would be good to be able to retrieve a list of all recent papers in a particular MSC category for example...
11:34 < kanzure> MSC?
11:35 < kanzure> mesh?
11:35 < kanzure> NCBI/NIH maintains this thingy called MeSH where they classify everything on pubmed and pubmedcentral into this giant hierarchy, is that what MSC is?
11:36 < Smari> Mathematical Subject Classification.
11:36 < kanzure> er, where does one find that? I know arxiv has a few math sections, is that what you're talking about?
11:36 < Smari> arxiv has its own classification scheme
11:37 < Smari> MSC is documented on the AMS website..
11:37 < Smari> American Mathematical Society.
11:38 < kanzure> http://stringwiki.org/ - for students learning string theory
11:38 < kanzure> ok thanks
11:38 < CIA-43> pyscholar: kanzure master * r9cd089a / doc/TODO : for later reference - http://bit.ly/Z8HeO
11:38 < CIA-43> pyscholar: kanzure master * r8713c9c / (arxiv/arxiv.mediawiki arxiv/arxiv.py arxiv/url.txt): arxiv script - http://bit.ly/18G7jn
11:54 < kanzure> python web scraping utilities:
11:54 < kanzure> http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/DataHub
11:55 < kanzure> http://scrapy.org/
11:55 < kanzure> both of these are "frameworks". not sure how they make themselves useful, however.
11:57 < kanzure> (DataHub was that "interesting project" I was trying to find)
12:01 < kanzure> this is an odd list: http://www.python.org/about/success/
12:01 < kanzure> why is "scientific programing" spelled with one "m"?
12:02 < kanzure> http://www.python.org/about/success/#manufacturing "# At Philips, The Semiconductor Line in Fishkill Runs on Python"
12:03 < kanzure> "The business logic that drives these components was written in Python, ninety percent of which is common to all of the tools."
12:05 < kanzure> searching for "Tribon Vitesse" gets some weird chinese results on google
12:06 < kanzure> apparently it's a ship-design optimization app
12:07 < kanzure> IBM/Philips Fishkill plant implemented their tool control in python
12:07 < kanzure> heh I guess that's a reason to want to work there.. something might be going right on their floors
12:12 < fenn> are there any search engines that won't mangle and substitute your phrase query?
12:12 < kanzure> you mean an actual search engine?
12:13 < fenn> i used to use altavista for this but apparently they've gone over to the dark side
12:14 < fenn> "The Blind Audio Tactile Mapping System uses Python to provide access to maps for the blind"
12:14 < kanzure> sounds like they finally got a roguelike
12:15 < fenn> it's a touchpad with speech synthesis
--- Log closed Sun Jul 26 12:17:17 2009
--- Log opened Sun Jul 26 12:17:21 2009
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12:18 < kanzure> uh oh
12:18 < kanzure> what did I do?
12:22 < fenn> "Professor Bishop and graduate student Peter Parente enabled use of the OpenAL library for spatial sound and the Immersion library for haptic feedback from Python."
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12:26 < kanzure> I've been meaning to hook up OpenAL to an ANN for facial recognition of pretty women
12:26 < fenn> er.. why?
12:26 < kanzure> because I fail at facial recognition
12:26 < fenn> but if you can't tell, why does it matter?
12:27 < kanzure> because there are some properties in facial features that may correlate with other features
12:27 < fenn> like, whether they're being hounded after by other guys?
12:27 < kanzure> yes that's one possible "feature"
12:27 < fenn> seriously, what "other features"
12:28 < fenn> purity of soul? vital essence?
12:28 < kanzure> well I was thinking more along the lines of phenotypes
12:28 < kanzure> er, you know what, nevermind
12:28 < fenn> it turns out that beauty is more or less close to average facial features
12:29 < kanzure> I don't actually care about the face
12:29 < kanzure> it's just that the face happens to be what you see most often
12:29  * kanzure is trying to figure out ipython profiles
12:31 < kanzure> http://onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2005/01/27/ipython.html?page=2
12:31 < kanzure> '%hist' and '%edit' are nice
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12:54 < fenn> carbothermal processing only gets a few hits from nasa about moon mining
12:55 < fenn> pyscholar to the rescue
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12:57 < kanzure> hello nchaimov 
12:57 < nchaimov> Hello
12:57 < kanzure> fenn: have you considered starting to log temperature?
12:58 < kanzure> nchaimov: be careful, we're all crazy mad scientists in here
12:58 < kanzure> nchaimov: maybe you could mention your cell lineage tracking project?
12:59 < nchaimov> Ah, don't worry, I've been immunized against mad scientist disease.
12:59 < kanzure> does that come standard in public education?
12:59 < nchaimov> Yes... measles, mumps, mad science... all required shots.
13:00 < kanzure> maybe there's a mad science injection we could concoct
13:00 < kanzure> it would consist of amphetamines, glutamates, and whatever envirotoxin that causes an addiction to chocolate
13:01 < nchaimov> I believe that is called "chocolate"
13:02 < kanzure> fenn: here's the other fellow from yesterday- http://www.google.com/profiles/neondemon 
13:03 < fenn> oh, the most awesome person in the world. now i remember
13:04 < kanzure> huh? the other guy was 'cody'
13:04 < fenn> kanzure: ambient temp or core body temp?
13:04 < kanzure> core body
13:04 < kanzure> did you see the messages from earlier today about that?
13:05 < fenn> i dont think core temperature has as much an affect as you think
13:05 < nchaimov> So... the cell lineage tracking project... we have time-series confocal slices of zebrafish during development, with certain populations of cells being fluorescently labeled. We want to be able to identify cells and track them over time, automatically generating a lineage. Currently we're trying to improve on this algorithm: (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14566936  "A hybrid 3D watershed algorithm incorporating gradient cues
13:05 < fenn> on circadian rhythms at least
13:05 < kanzure> a guy named 'steve' on the singularity mailing list has been running around claiming that core body temp plays a central role in aging and disease
13:05 < fenn> probably
13:05 < kanzure> no, not on circadian rhythms- that was just something from google scholar
13:05 < fenn> oh, uh, then what are you talking about?
13:05 < kanzure> before the circadian rhythms message :p
13:06 < fenn> a large part of the reason for the whole log thing is to track my sleep schedule
13:06 < kanzure> nchaimov: I don't understand. Are you tracking by color?
13:06 < kanzure> fenn: yes, but you and I both were wondering when or where it is optimal to do programming
13:06 < kanzure> or why it is that sometimes stuff happens and other times not
13:06 < kanzure> re: mental inertia
13:06 < kanzure> maybe it is core temperature related?
13:07 < nchaimov> If we could get the cells to be different colors, it would be much easier! Currently the cytoplasm of all the cells of interest is labeled green and the nuclei of all cells, whether we want to track them or not, are labeled red.
13:07 < kanzure> nchaimov: Have you considered using the techniques from brainbow? Recombinant fluorescent proteins?
13:07 < fenn> kanzure: it's hard to measure code productivity anyway, so what would you plot against?
13:08 < kanzure> long technical explanation: http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/brainbow_strategies.png
13:08 < kanzure> various pretty images: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/brainbow/
13:08 < kanzure> for instance: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/brainbow/Brainbow_brain_stem.jpg
13:08 < kanzure> fenn: whether or not you feel "in the zone"?
13:09 < fenn> so, subjective measurement
13:09 < fenn> or whatever the correct way to say that is
13:09 < kanzure> yeah that's also what a set point is
13:09 < kanzure> er, woops not really
13:09 < fenn> set point?
13:09 < kanzure> so, I may be at 97.3, but I might think that is "cold"
13:09 < kanzure> while you at 97.2 might be too warm
13:10 < nchaimov> There are some people looking into that type of approach. We don't know how to do that in the cells we're tracking though.
13:10 < fenn> "in the zone" might be a combination of 50 different factors
13:10 < kanzure> there's some ~3.4 fahrenheit variation that gives a lot of variability
13:10 < kanzure> fenn: that's true- that's worth tracking, however. I think temperature might be an interesting starting point.
13:10 < kanzure> because it's easy to change body temp drastically.
13:10 < kanzure> nchaimov: That recombinant fluorescent protein technique requires some genetic engineering. So, it might not be an option.
13:11 < fenn> are there any ways to mesure core temp without walking around with something stuck up my ass all day?
13:11 < kanzure> you mean, besides what's already up there?
13:11 < fenn> harsh.
13:11 < kanzure> (or something also equally insulting)
13:11 < kanzure> what's wrong with taking temperature via the mouth periodically?
13:12 < kanzure> besides the fact that you have to remember to do it
13:12 < fenn> mouth temp changes a lot 
13:12 < kanzure> armpit temp is useless, I've heard
13:12 < fenn> ear?
13:12 < kanzure> how about skin temperature? that could just be some flat sensors, right?
13:13 < kanzure> but it's not as detailed and doesn't tell you core temperature
13:13 < fenn> skin temp is useless
13:13 < kanzure> surely there's something other than asstemp
13:14 < kanzure> nchaimov: So why are they fluorescently labeled? Why not just visually track them?
13:14 < nchaimov> Do you know if anyone has done something similar to Brainbow, but for cell types other than neurons?
13:16 < kanzure> not off the top of my head. but that does make me wonder why they would do neurons first, of all things.
13:17 < kanzure> besides it being awesome :)
13:17 < nchaimov> kanzure: Um... they would be too hard to distinguish from other types of cells otherwise
13:17 < kanzure> light-activated oligonucleotides and light-activated ribozymes are neat, but probably not what you need
13:18 < nchaimov> The lab we're developing the software for is working on the development of cartilage. 
13:19 < fenn> "Ear thermometers measure eardrum temperature using infrared sensors. The blood supply to the tympanic membrane is shared with the brain."
13:19 < kanzure> is that a vein or an artery?
13:19 < kanzure> er, the blood supply to the tympanic membrane I mean, is that from the jugular directly, or is it on the way back from the brain?
13:20 < fenn> "In the early 2000s, ingestible thermistors in capsule form were produced, allowing the temperature inside the digestive tract to be transmitted to an external receiver;"
13:20 < fenn> i wonder if that's a "medical device"
13:20 < kanzure> yeah sounds like the jpeg-cam-capsule-pills
13:21 < kanzure> except simpler
13:21 < fenn> it's practically DIY though
13:21 < fenn> RLC resonant circuit
13:21 < kanzure> where are you going to get a sensor and transmitter that small?
13:21 < kanzure> and how would you encapsulate it? (I'm still trying to figure this out for general pharmaceuticals)
13:21 < fenn> epoxy
13:22 < fenn> you want pharmaceuticals to dissolve
13:22 < fenn> it would probably have an antenna "tail"
13:23 < fenn> or maybe just a coil would suffice
13:26 < fenn> i found this amusing: http://picasaweb.google.com/neondemon/DropBox#5334692065987508866
13:28 < kanzure> yeah that's the business card he gave me
13:28 < kanzure> mike mentioned that he would like to package the neural tissue scanner into skdb
13:28 < kanzure> however, he doesn't know about the licensing of the hardware designs at the moment
13:28 < kanzure> he doesn't even know if it's a university-only project, or if todd has the reigns on it or what
13:28  * kanzure just sent an email off to todd asking about that
13:31 < kanzure> fenn: what should I be doing with pymates today?
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13:55 < CIA-43> pyscholar: kanzure master * r5f88fb6 / packages/classes.py : make the unit tests not fail so terribly, still does not work however - http://bit.ly/ZCPYJ
14:01 < kanzure> "
14:01 < kanzure> "Using a combination of heat and carbon to run redox reactions, like ore smelting.
14:01 < kanzure> i'm designing a utility battery with this technology, we can talk of it sometime."
14:01 < kanzure> "this nothing more than a low frequency RF generator
14:01 < kanzure> i'm using this design i found in maker magazine,  http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/03/diy_induction_heating.html "
14:03 < kanzure> fenn: any ideas on how I should be structuring pyscholar?
14:03 < kanzure> for instance, in pyscholar/sciencedirect-notes.py, there is some code that parses sciencedirect search result pages
14:03 < kanzure> but it's just code thrown into a file.. should it go into a class method somewhere? if so, where?
14:11 < kanzure> http://wiki.github.com/brendonh/pyth
14:14 < kanzure> nevermind
14:17 < ybit> http://bayimg.com/DAcnNaaCN :: ah much better
14:17 < kanzure> is this useful? http://tobyho.com/Prototype_Inheritence_in_Python
14:18 < ybit> er, http://bayimg.com/image/dacnnaacn.jpg
14:18 < fenn> "In Python, you can add methods dynamically, but normally you'd have to add it into the class." wtf is that supposed to mean
14:19 < fenn> Foo.bar = lambda whatever
14:19 < kanzure> doesn't that give an attribute error?
14:20 < kanzure> oh, nevermind
14:20 < kanzure> it doesn't.
14:20 < kanzure> hm
14:20 < kanzure> blah = Foo()
14:20 < kanzure> #def say_it(): print "..."
14:20 < kanzure> blah.say_it = Foo()
14:20 < fenn> you have to remember to have a "self" argument
14:20 < kanzure> oh you should do Foo.say_it = say_it
14:20 < fenn> one moment
14:21 < kanzure> never!
14:21 < kanzure> so yeah, what is this guy thinking?
14:22 < kanzure> def blah() #define it
14:22 < kanzure> some_object.blah = blah
14:22 < fenn> def bar(self, x):
14:22 < fenn> Foo.bar = bar
14:22 < fenn> Foo().bar(1)
14:23 < kanzure> "there are cases where you don't want to add it to the class" (says the page)
14:23 < kanzure> what does that even mean?
14:23 < fenn> add it to the instance?
14:23 < kanzure> that you were too lazy to make a class that inherits it?
14:23 < fenn> Foo().bar = bar
14:23 < kanzure> yeah
14:23 < kanzure> what's the big deal? isn't that obvious?
14:23 < kanzure> is this for python 1.x? :p
14:24 < fenn> i think this guy just doesnt know python very well
14:27 < kanzure> heh "import this"
14:27 < fenn> "Prototype-based programming is a style of object-oriented programming in which classes are not present, and behavior reuse (known as inheritance in class-based languages) is performed via a process of cloning existing objects that serve as prototypes"
14:27 < fenn> sounds like teh suck
14:29 < kanzure> did you mean this?  f =lambda x: x**2 + 5
14:29 < fenn> ya
14:30 < fenn> i keep thinking it's lambda(x):
14:33 < fenn> well that was a waste of 15 minutes
14:37 < kanzure> sciencedirect-notes.py
14:37 < kanzure> packages/classes.py
14:54 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/bibliographies/
14:56 < kanzure> try imagemagic for concatenating pdf to pdf
15:01 < fenn> gs -dBATCH -dNOPAUSE -q -sDEVICE=pdfwrite -sOutputFile=finished.pdf file1.pdf file2.pdf
15:15 < fenn> with enough futzing around, "lpr -Ppdf somefile" should work, supposedly
15:16 < fenn> this looks like the easy way out, but why isn't it in debian already?
15:16 < fenn> http://www.eprg.org/pdfcorner/text2pdf/
15:27 < kanzure> it's still funny when I get emails from my grandmother about the singularity. "SCIENTISTS WORRY ABOUT AI KILLING US ALL"
15:41 < fenn> this is pretty cool
15:41 < fenn> http://www.labcyte.com/Acoustic_Droplet_Ejection_ADE/Default.270.html
15:42 < kanzure> wah. I was talking about this months ago, but now that it's in the news, everyone's going all bonkers
15:42 < fenn> in the news?
15:43 < kanzure> yeah the acoustic cavity for microfluidics, for instance
15:43 < fenn> i guess there was some article that didnt cite its sources
15:43 < kanzure> also acoustic droplet stuff
15:43 < kanzure> anywho, I don't understand those photographs on the page
15:43 < kanzure> why show the droplet going up in the air?
15:43 < fenn> watch the movie
15:43 < kanzure> it will just fall, which is useless
15:43 < fenn> because that's what it does
15:43 < fenn> no it sticks to something
15:43 < kanzure> upwards?
15:43 < fenn> yup
15:44 < fenn> "Droplets can be transferred with very precise positioning onto a surface suspended above the ejection reservoir."
15:44 < kanzure> xy addressable location for droplet to emerge from the reservoire?
15:45 < fenn> i dont know how it actually works
15:45 < fenn> with a phased array of transducers you could theoretically make the droplet come out at any position and angle
15:47 < bkero> http://thereifixedit.com/2009/07/04/epic-kludge-photo-no-electricity-no-problem/
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15:57 < kanzure> http://jaynes.colorado.edu/PythonGuidelines.html#unit_tests
15:57 < kanzure> hm write unit tests before you prototype? I've been doing it wrong
15:59 < kanzure> the example at the end is a nice treat. didn't know that you could define methods within methods for unit tests and get reusable namespace variables.
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16:00 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * re7cd1d694558 /packages/screw/screw.py: added some python module data to the screw package class
16:06 < kanzure> fenn: can you add some docstrings to max_force and breaking_force in skdb/packages/screw/screw.py ?
16:13 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * rfe7a306fad3d /packages/screw/metadata.yaml: first go at metadata for methods
16:15 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r8aca77b8f582 /packages/screw/metadata.yaml: typo fix
16:15 < kanzure> oops :(
16:22 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * re7f8b61f9ec4 /packages/screw/tests.py: unit tests for screw package
16:23 < kanzure> I have no clue whether or not line 22 to line 30 is worthwhile in skdb/packages/screw/metadata.yaml
16:24 < kanzure> it's supposed to be some way to describe the methods that an object has. some methods might describe a failure mode, others might do something else entirely.
16:24 < kanzure> although max_force isn't necessarily a failure mode
16:25 < kanzure> other packages would call something like "skdb.packages.screw.Screw()" and then look at the documentation and call my_screw.breaking_force(), but for some reason I once-upon-a-time expected to have to do more than just that
16:26 < kanzure> like if you had an assembly object (skdb.pymates.Assembly at the moment), you should be able to check the methods for each of your parts in the system (a screw is a part, yes)
16:27 < kanzure> so having a skdb.pymates.Assembly.detect_failure_modes() would prove useful
16:27 < kanzure> (of course, Assemblys hould not stay under skdb.pymates forever IMHO)
16:36 < kanzure> oh that's right, we were going to have this subgraph thingy where the interfaces of the screw corresponded to the loose ends/edges in the subgraph thingy describing the part
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17:45 < kanzure> hey timschmidt 
17:45 < timschmidt> hey
17:48 < QuantumG> I went to Australia Zoo yesterday
17:48 < timschmidt> I organized and attended the first Michigan RepRap Users Group meeting.
17:48 < QuantumG> it would seem they advocate a global static ecosystem
17:49 < kanzure> timschmidt: yeah I saw the posts about that
17:49 < kanzure> timschmidt: you guys kick more ass than a lot of other groups, keep it up
17:49 < QuantumG> I actually asked one of the nuts there if they were against extinction in general or only human caused extinction.. 
17:49 < kanzure> you guys have a lot of programmers/techies?
17:49 < timschmidt> It was rock-tastic.
17:50 < QuantumG> he said they were against extinction in general.
17:50 < timschmidt> Yeah, most ass-kickers in attendance had programming experience or we pros.
17:50 < timschmidt> or were
17:50 < kanzure> timschmidt: why is there no main reprap mailing list?
17:50 < timschmidt> There supposedly is one, but IDK if it's public?
17:51 < kanzure> wtf is that bullshit
17:51  * kanzure has had a long history of being angry at reprap
17:51 < timschmidt> indeed
17:52 < timschmidt> We had 5 repraps in attendance, 4 for the whole night.  About 10 people stayed the whole night, about 15 throughout the day.
17:52 < timschmidt> We got all 4 machines nearly complete.
17:52 < kanzure> timschmidt: do you read openmanufacturing?
17:52 < timschmidt> no
17:53 < kanzure> I've been forwarding reprap-michigan's emails over to them.
17:53 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/om.html check the first link for instance
17:53 < timschmidt> awesome
17:56 < timschmidt> sweet
17:56 < timschmidt> excitingly, my wrench-buildable machine got two fully working axes, including motor mounts, lead screws, everything last night.  Still only a wrench and a hacksaw were used.
18:09 < CIA-43> Tangiblebit: smari * rad97f5f8ad14 /tangiblebit.com/clients/tb-get/ (tb-get.py tbdefaults.conf): Added a skeleton of a "tb-get" program that I hacked together on the ferry just now... :P
18:10 < kanzure> bah
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18:10 < Smari> kanzure, muhahaha
18:11 < kanzure> Smari: btw, for future reference for fb-get,
18:11 < kanzure> could you act like you have a fancy wrapper to a dependency resolution engine?
18:11 < kanzure> it's a drop in module that I'm (supposed to be) writing
18:11 < Smari> kanzure, can you expose the interface to me?
18:11 < kanzure> no! there isn't one :(
18:11 < Smari> kanzure, but sure, I just haven't reached a point where I'd need to act like that yet. :)
18:12 < kanzure> Smari: but.. check out the latest update to skdb.git
18:12 < kanzure> see skdb/packages/screw/metadata.yaml
18:12 < Smari> kanzure, seriously, we really must must must must merge our projects.
18:12 < kanzure> at the bottom there is an example of a dependency hierarchy of sorts
18:12 < kanzure> that would be something that you should look into ;-)
18:12 < Smari> kanzure, duplication of effort is pointless.. 
18:12 < kanzure> yeah I agree
18:12 < kanzure> is it really just a name change that we have to do, or what
18:13 < kanzure> Smari: I wrote a script called git-import-folder that properly merges all history from another git repo
18:13 < kanzure> maybe that would be useful?
18:13 < Smari> kanzure, it's also a merge of the design..
18:13 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/git-import-folder (I think)
18:13 < kanzure> that's true
18:13 < kanzure> hm, where's fenn when you need him
18:13 < kanzure> he's off welding at the austin fabratory for some reason
18:14 < Smari> make sure that we're on the same level with how we make clients and servers and protocols and so on.
18:14 < kanzure> protocols?
18:14 < kanzure> for transferring of packages, I think HTTP is fine
18:14 < kanzure> which is how debian does it
18:14 < kanzure> however, debtorrent and debp2p looks interesting
18:14 < kanzure> so having a wrapper that enables that in the future would be ok with me
18:14 < Smari> I wrote a small document earlier which was supposed to be a technical brief when I started writing it but by the time I finished it was a philosophical manifesto.
18:15 < kanzure> happens to me all the time :(
18:15 < Smari> What I've written so far assumes HTTP and XMLRPC :)
18:15 < kanzure> I still need you to convince me of XMLRPC.
18:16 < Smari> kanzure, btw, I'm going to be at a conference in India two weeks from now with 300 fab lab people, and if I have something to show them we might gain some developers and possibly a user base too.
18:16 < kanzure> you should definitely show them pymates :) (the subsection of skdb for part mating)
18:16 < Smari> kanzure, XML per se isn't so great, but the XMLRPC modules available in a lot of languages, including Python, provide transparent interfaces that are very very very nice and easy to use.
18:17 < kanzure> how is that different from YAML?
18:17 < kanzure> for instance, there are some examples here:
18:17 < kanzure> http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAMLDocumentation
18:17 < Smari> kanzure, perhaps we ought to make a presentation together... like, just a simple OO Impress thing with some spiffy pictures that explain what we're doing and why.
18:17 < kanzure> um wait don't click that :(
18:17 < Smari> kanzure, XMLRPC is an RPC system, whereas YAML isn't.
18:18 < kanzure> ok, that's the right link
18:18 < kanzure> RPC?
18:18 < Smari> I'm not talking data storage here, I'm talking about client-server interaction.
18:18 < Smari> Remote Procedure Call.
18:18 < kanzure> Smari: sure, fenn and I need to do that anyway 
18:18 < kanzure> I've been thinking that "wget" should be sufficient. but maybe there are some other ideas I am missing out on?
18:19 < Smari> wget is fine if you just want to download simple files..
18:19 < kanzure> these are simple files :)
18:19 < kanzure> that's the whole point
18:19 < Smari> xmlrpc is really neat in that you are returned spiffy data structures
18:19 < kanzure> simple but deadly
18:19 < kanzure> but how is that different from yaml?
18:19 < Smari> *sigh*.
18:19 < Smari> I just had a conversation with a friend about this... hehe.
18:19 < kanzure> I'm trying to understand.. sorry.
18:19 < Smari> Yeah okay
18:21 < kanzure> hm an "RPC and YAML" article would be nice about now
18:21 < Smari> YAML is an untyped, nonstrict structured document language which works for many things that have non-specific structures and no predefined formatting. XML on the other hand provides strict types via DTDs, which provides for unambiguous structure and linting.
18:21 < kanzure> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-matters23.html
18:21 < kanzure> YAML is typed.
18:21 < Smari> YAML is fundamentally incompatable with RPC
18:21 < Smari> Okay, it isn't.
18:22 < Smari> but it's very much bad with RPC
18:22 < kanzure> in the case of DTDs, in the current model of skdb, components/parts are responsible for makiing sure they are not bullshitting themselves
18:22 < Smari> An RPC is simply some way to define functions on a remote location and call them, passing data structures around.
18:22 < kanzure> hm? could you give me an example?
18:22 < Smari> Okay.
18:22 < kanzure> can RPC be implemented over CGI?
18:22 < Smari> Yes
18:23 < kanzure> er, not that anyone calls it CGI anymore ..
18:23 < Smari> hehe :)
18:23 < kanzure> so why would spitting out YAML text versus XML text not work over CGI/equivalents?
18:23 < Smari> It isn't spitting out XML text.
18:24 < kanzure> ok ok, XML binary
18:24 < Smari> Which is one of it's biggest features. For the record, I HATE XML.
18:24 < Smari> no, no XML at all.
18:24 < kanzure> XMLRPC == XML + RPC ?
18:24 < Smari> XMLRPC = RPC which uses XML transparently as a transport language.
18:25 < Smari> Here. In the TB Django I have an XMLRPC interface.. with functions such as GetSites(). See sources/fabmap/xmlrpc.py
18:25 < Smari> Or, well.. all the functions in there are exposed as XMLRPC calls, right?
18:25 < Smari> So now I'm going to do a client script.
18:26 < Smari> >>> import xmlrpclib
18:26 < kanzure> I'm looking at xmlrpc.py and not seeing anything particularly special here
18:26 < kanzure> you seem to be spitting out dictionaries
18:26 < Smari> >>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server("http://www.tangiblebit.com/xmlrpc/")
18:26 < Smari> That's part of the point.
18:26 < kanzure> how is that not YAML?
18:26 < Smari> >>> srv.GetSiteList()
18:26 < Smari> That's the magic.
18:27 < kanzure> I see.
18:27 < Smari> (the XMLRPC stuff isn't actually running on tangiblebit.com at the moment)
18:27 < kanzure> how would it be?
18:27 < kanzure> er, by what mechanism would it be running on the server
18:28 < Smari> If I check out the git, then it will.
18:28 < kanzure> so, django runs it?
18:28 < Smari> But that there client code will do a HTTP request with an XMLRPC request encoded as the POST data, and then it parses the response back.. (unmarshalling) and returns it.
18:28 < Smari> yes
18:29 < Smari> So the point is that it's ludicrously simple to use.
18:29 < kanzure> is there a flatfile archive of all of the packages in tb/skdb?
18:29 < kanzure> er, just tb I guess I mean
18:29 < Smari> Don't think so.
18:29 < kanzure> why not?
18:30 < Smari> dunno. What do you mean by packages in this case?
18:30 < kanzure> er, the whole idea is that we're writing this system that lets you download "packages" of hardware
18:30 < Smari> ah yes
18:30 < kanzure> one package might be "screw"
18:30 < kanzure> another package might be "milling machine"
18:31 < kanzure> so, I like having a collection of files
18:31 < Smari> I haven't gotten that far.
18:31 < kanzure> because all of my hax0r tools work on them
18:31 < Smari> there's no package stuff at the moment
18:31 < kanzure> there is in skdb
18:31 < Smari> yup
18:31 < kanzure> so my point is that XMLRPC doesn't really matter in the case of just downloading packages
18:31 < Smari> So what I've been building mostly is the interface stuff... defining how things go between places.
18:32 < kanzure> maybe in communicating and passing messages for scheduling of different jobs across different fablabs
18:32 < Smari> kanzure, indeed.
18:32 < kanzure> okay
18:32 < Smari> so the packages can be flat - in fact, they should be flat.
18:32 < Smari> or like, as files.
18:32 < kanzure> I was worried you were thinking this was somehow replacing the YAML packaging formats
18:32 < Smari> but there's a very good reason for using a good RPC system
18:33 < Smari> Nope
18:33 < Smari> not really
18:33 < Smari> except that I think YAML is the wrong tool for this job.
18:33 < kanzure> what about X11-based message passing?
18:33 < Smari> Eurhghasf
18:33 < kanzure> just wondering
18:33 < Smari> the X11 RPC system is really horrible
18:33 < kanzure> am not being serious
18:33 < kanzure> have never looked at it
18:34 < Smari> I would be interested in seeing if XMPP would be sensible though..
18:34 < kanzure> jabber? hah
18:34 < Smari> RPC over XMPP... somebody must have had that idea before.
18:34 < Smari> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0009.html
18:35 < kanzure> jer and I talk sometimes
18:35 < kanzure> nice guy
18:35  * kanzure eats (so will be slow to reply)
18:36 < Smari> I'm getting ready for bed.. :)
18:36 < Smari> brb
18:38 < Smari> back
18:39 < kanzure> so, what does tb-get.py do?
18:39 < kanzure> or, what will it do, rather?
18:39 < kanzure> it seems to just be a message passer for clients
18:40 < kanzure> if you return an object of a type that the client doesn't understand, what happens?
18:40 < Smari> It was intended as a) a test suite for the RPC interface b) an attempt at figuring out what kind of functionality an apt-get like client might have...
18:41 < Smari> kanzure, same as if you pass an invalid parameter type to a function.
18:41 < kanzure> isn't python supposed to be dynamically typed?
18:41 < Smari> kanzure, sure.
18:41 < kanzure> so if you return an object that it doesn't know the class for ..
18:41 < kanzure> that kinda breaks things
18:42 < Smari> ah. Hm! I don't think you can pass class instances. 
18:43 < Smari> nope
18:44 < Smari> just string, int, double, binary blobs, datetime, booleans, structs and arrays.
18:44 < Smari> http://www.xmlrpc.com/spec
18:48 < Smari> I really like the EeePC btw.
19:01 < kanzure> I guess I don't actually care what the format is, as long as the functionality is preserved.
19:13 < Smari> mhm
19:14 < Smari> my only point about format is that it needs to be something that won't cause us lots of headaches later when poorly informed eejits start writing packages.
19:14 < Smari> or generally interfacing.
19:15 < Smari> I've been writing software long enough to have become allergic to freeform user input.. :)
19:16 < kanzure> eejits?
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19:18 < Smari> idiots. Hiberno-English,.
19:19 < kanzure> the idea is to make it so that it doesn't happen
19:19 < kanzure> first, I came to the general conclusion that idiots will not be package maintainers
19:19 < kanzure> the basic idea is that package maintainers will submit the (maintained) packages
19:19 < kanzure> people talk with the package maintainers and give them the CAD files, the information that the poor sap needs, etc.
19:20 < kanzure> now, they could figure out how to do it themselves, that's true, but someone is still going to have to review it
19:20 < kanzure> and it would still have to pass various tests
19:20 < kanzure> Smari: is the only reason why you're not committing to skdb.git is because you dislike the name?
19:21 < Smari> kanzure, now it is. Until now it's been that I wasn't sure if we were actually going to merge.
19:21 < Smari> but now that it's just a naming issue left.. *shrug*
19:21 < kanzure> ok. how would you prefer to do a merge?
19:22 < Smari> I don't know. I'm very fond of the TangibleBit name, but I'm open to other names... I just don't understand what 'skdb' means and it's hard to pronounce :)
19:23 < Smari> as for merging files, I think your git merge thing is the right way to go..
19:23 < kanzure> it means 'societal (engineering) knowledge data base'
19:23 < kanzure> I am fine with tangible bit as a name
19:25 < Smari> okay.
19:25 < Smari> the skdb file system is a bit messy... should we come up with some file structure for the project's files or just see what happens?  
19:26 < kanzure> you should pull and move stuff around as you see fit :)
19:26 < Smari> I'm a file system neat freak, sorry
19:26 < kanzure> last night we moved some documentation around, and cleaned things up a bit
19:26 < Smari> okay, how about you merge the gits and I'll move stuff around tomorrow :)
19:27 < kanzure> okay
19:27  * kanzure is working on that
19:27 < kanzure> just did git-import-folder and for some reason it didn't include your history.
19:27  * kanzure fixes.
19:30 < Smari> okay.. I have a headache, probably allergy related.. going to doze off. Will I be very shocked if I pull tomorrow? (The correct answer is yes)
19:30 < kanzure> hopefully in a good way?
19:30 < Smari> yay :)
19:31 < Smari> you rock. In theory at least.
19:33 < kanzure> ok merge was successful
19:33 < kanzure> unfortunately it merged to skdb/tangiblebit.com/clients/clients/tb-get/
19:33 < kanzure> obviously that's kind of wrong
19:33 < Smari> heheh
19:33 < kanzure> unless you happen to be a fan of terrible directory structures?
19:33 < Smari> I am not.
19:33 < kanzure> hmph.
19:35 < Smari> gnite!
19:35 < kanzure> night
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20:05 < kanzure> git-import-folder ~/local/tangiblebit tangiblebit.com/doc .
20:05 < kanzure> git-import-folder ~/local/tangiblebit tangiblebit.com/clients/ .
20:12 < kanzure> git-import-folder ~/local/tangiblebit tangiblebit.com/sources/ .
20:12  * kanzure pushes
20:12 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * rf661e872a51b /sources/templates/fabmap/sitedetails.json: Converging, some bugs in the sitedetails.json template though, ignore for now.
20:12 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r467a9c5659d7 /sources/ (15 files in 5 dirs): ...
20:12 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r577bd652bc22 /sources/ (__init__.pyc settings.pyc urls.pyc): Removing .pyc's
20:12 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r863d30e46493 /sources/xmlrpc/ (__init__.py views.py): xmlrpc interface.
20:12 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r6d569de900ba /sources/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Removing some .pyc's I lost.
20:12 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r7c4dc8342c53 /sources/ (fabmap/views.py fabmap/xmlrpc.py settings.py): Implemented some FabMap related XMLRPC request stuff.
20:12 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r56965e715993 /sources/ (fabmap/views.py fabmap/xmlrpc.py settings.py): More XMLRPC features; changing JSON views to wrap XMLRPC functions (it's faster and cleaner!).
20:12 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r5a3bf411f971 /unittests/xmlrpctest.py: More XMLRPC features; changing JSON views to wrap XMLRPC functions (it's faster and cleaner!).
20:12 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r7c6f48a6e778 /sources/ (fabmap/models.py fabmap/xmlrpc.py settings.py): More XMLRPC stuff and material properties draft (in fabmap/models.py)
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r5f419b31f47a /doc/material_properties.txt: Bla
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r7f1dcf54ea5f /doc/object_properties.txt: Testing bot
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * re27799c67d93 /doc/object_properties.txt: More test
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * rc9616942783b /doc/object_properties.txt: .
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * rd31b1090c284 /doc/object_properties.txt: A!
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r27a10aa724ef /doc/manufacturing_processes.txt: Added manufacturing process list.
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r4fa9eb3a2b16 /doc/manufacturing_processes.txt: ..
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * rfa44f3017188 /doc/manufacturing_processes.txt: Arr
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r0345f4cc7366 /doc/ (process_list.txt sitemap.txt): Restructuring JavaScript interface...
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * rd5617e7a8b78 /sources/templates/fabmap/index.html: Pushing around some javascript functions, cleaning up site management interface.
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r7b164daab956 /doc/manufacturing_processes.txt: Pushing around some javascript functions, cleaning up site management interface.
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r866caccffb50 /sources/ (fabmap/views.py fabmap/xmlrpc.py urls.py): More XMLRPC and Javascript glue.
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r73f0f30974dc /doc/DTD/site.dtd: Added <site> DTD.
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r3557015c0ae1 /sources/ (5 files in 3 dirs): XML and YAML exporters for Site model. XML Conforms to site.dtd. XMLRPC interfaces for fetching also implemented.
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * ra87b8bd8cffb /doc/DTD/site.dtd: XML and YAML exporters for Site model. XML Conforms to site.dtd. XMLRPC interfaces for fetching also implemented.
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * r1749898af07f /sources/templates/fabmap/index.html: Map and LatLon selector development. Why the hell doesn't OpenLayers have a DragMarker class?!
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: spm * rac62b95bec29 /unittests/ (siteparser.py sitetest.xml): Adding some (broken) tests.
20:13 < CIA-43> skdb: smari * rbefd63579dcd /clients/tb-get/ (tb-get.py tbdefaults.conf): Added a skeleton of a "tb-get" program that I hacked together on the ferry just now... :P
20:14 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * reffa2a6470ce /clients/ (XMLRPCAuth.py tb-get/tb-get.py tb-get/tbdefaults.conf): Merge commit 'git-import-folder-merge/master'
20:14 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r13abf374ba1a /doc/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Merge commit 'git-import-folder-merge/master'
20:14 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r6db0b476730e /unittests/ (siteparser.py sitetest.xml xmlrpctest.py): Merge commit 'git-import-folder-merge/master'
20:14 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r57db6f821660 /sources/ (27 files in 9 dirs): Merge commit 'git-import-folder-merge/master'
20:24 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r01d8146ce1a3 / (50 files in 6 dirs): moved pymates/ and dep/ to the sources/ dir
20:24 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r33412f964145 / (7 files in 3 dirs): move stuff around
20:24 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r0dbff270d812 / (26 files in 4 dirs): completely cleaned out the main directory
20:24 < kanzure> annnd now everything doesn't work
20:24 < kanzure> not like it worked to begin with
20:24 < kanzure> fuck you, world
20:25 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r402bd285fe8a / (dice.py sources/dice.py): okay, one more
20:36 < kanzure> git log --follow should definitely be the default
20:36 < kanzure> what's the point of it *not* being default?
20:38 < QuantumG> its git, nothing makes sense
20:38 < QuantumG> most likely it isn't the default because it uses more cpu
20:38 < QuantumG> or something equally inane
20:39 < kanzure> the problem is that when you move a file, it actually just "writes" the file or something
20:39 < kanzure> so "git log" doesn't bother to track the renames in the logs
20:40 < kanzure> (renames are separate actions)
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21:59 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * re81396d571c4 /doc/TODO: get rid of mysql eventually
21:59 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r943f74185d59 / (152 files in 28 dirs): moved stuff around
22:02 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r9dbf74459dc6 / (inventory/urls.py urls.py): forgot to move urls.py to inventory/
22:10 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r5dfdc4d777e2 /inventory/ (7 files in 4 dirs): used 'expand' to convert from tabs to spaces
22:11 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r08c23de6b5f1 /unittests/ (siteparser.py xmlrpctest.py): tab hunting season
22:13 < CIA-43> skdb:  * rb0265f8e4642 /packages/screw/ (metadata.yaml screw.py): i dont think info about the software should be in the screw package; i'm not sure screw.py actually belongs in the screw example package
22:13 < CIA-43> skdb:  * rd51371a2fb2d / (155 files in 30 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb
22:15 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r5651c768c695 /clients/tb-get/tb-get.py: even more, forgot this one
22:15 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * rbcd5ca682b83 /packages/screw/ (metadata.yaml screw.py): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://bryan@adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb
22:16 < kanzure> if screw.py doesn't belong to a screw, then what does it belong to?
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22:21 < ybit> wrldpc2: the other day you left the channel.. you might like to try pure data
22:21 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_data
22:21 < ybit> it's what i was looking for..
22:22 < ybit> 19:09 < ybit> also http://electro-music.com/forum/forum-112.html is of interest
22:22 < wrldpc2> ty ybit ... who was that musician as well?  e209?
22:23 < ybit> http://createdigitalmusic.com/tag/pure-data/
22:23 < ybit> e603
22:23 < CIA-43> skdb:  * r6329e4394363 /doc/comparison/readme: everybody loves documentation
22:23 < CIA-43> skdb:  * rf6c10daff08c /clients/tb-get/tb-get.py: Merge branch 'master' of ssh://adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb
22:25 < wrldpc2> i need to code a robust piece of lyric permutation software.  a robust piece of language processing that eats text, builds linguistic models based on the character/string rules it finds in the text, and then permutates verse after verse after verse of rhymes.
22:26 < wrldpc2> using some kind of crude "bible code" esque modeling rules or something.
22:26 < wrldpc2> lol
22:26 < wrldpc2> character distance and shit.
22:26 < wrldpc2> there are probably many ways to deconstruct a piece of text and build a model of it.
22:30 < ybit> oh yeah...
22:30 < ybit> and something else was relevant...
22:30 < ybit> 20:09 < ybit> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080401150755.htm is \
22:31 < ybit> what i was looking for earlier
22:31 < ybit> 20:09 < ybit> http://music.princeton.edu/~dmitri/ChordGeometries.html
22:31 < ybit> wrldpc2^
22:31 < wrldpc2> ty
22:31 < ybit> np
22:32 < wrldpc2> has anyone done a double blind study on the emoto shit
22:32 < ybit> anything to help musicians not make crappy music
22:37 < genehacker_light> heh that's interesting compressing  an mp3 down by a lot
22:38 < ybit> ack
22:38 < ybit> wrong link
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22:40 < ybit> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080417142454.htm
22:40 < ybit> there, that's what i had meant to paste 
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23:06 < fenn> wrldpc2: havce you looked at megahal?
23:06 < wrldpc2> nah
23:06 < fenn> why not?
23:06 < fenn> it's exactly what you desribed
23:07 < fenn> ok so it doesnt rhyme, but that's only because english spelling is whack
23:59 < fenn> note to self: wear sunscreen next time i do a lot of welding