--- Day changed Sun Aug 02 2009 00:46 < fenn> kanzure 146-6-213-198 ? 00:47 < fenn> 146-6-213-183 00:47 < fenn> 146-6-214-2 00:48 < fenn> 146-6-213-183 00:48 < fenn> http://aptamer.icmb.utexas.edu/ 01:05 < kanzure> heckle. 01:34 < genehacker> ??? 01:35 < genehacker> sweet 01:42 -!- zvader [n=zvader@heckle.icmb.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:44 < genehacker> now who do we have here? 01:45 < genehacker> a mol bio? 01:48 -!- goonie [n=goonie@neuroblastoma.cs.pdx.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:50 < genehacker> I didn't know there was an aptamer database 01:50 < genehacker> wonder if there are any for iron or plutonium 02:09 < genehacker> no 02:09 < genehacker> blast 02:12 -!- ybit [n=ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:13 < ybit> kanzure: you're welcome 02:13 * ybit <3 uzbl as well 02:26 < genehacker> http://146.6.83.129/GloveboxStatus.html 02:26 < genehacker> glovebox status? 02:27 < katsmeow> internal pressure, and if the light is on 02:28 < genehacker> looks like a pic of inside 02:28 < katsmeow> that just won't do 02:29 < genehacker> hmmm... we got a YAG woo! 02:29 < katsmeow> i had a yagi 02:29 < genehacker> no a YAG as in laser 02:30 < genehacker> yttrium Aluminium garnet 02:30 < katsmeow> oh, yittrium etcetc 02:30 < katsmeow> yeas 02:30 < genehacker> not the antenna or rc airplane 02:30 * katsmeow nods 02:30 < katsmeow> i wanted a Cu vapor laser 02:31 < katsmeow> really needed a small laser to weld wire tips together 02:31 < genehacker> why? 02:31 < genehacker> oh 02:31 < genehacker> I want a CO2 laser that can make it's own mirrors 02:32 < genehacker> tiny wire tips? 02:33 < genehacker> have you considered using electric current? or a hydrogen flame? 02:33 < genehacker> hydrogen flame probably works best when the wires are gold though... 02:33 < katsmeow> well, upto butt welds on 16 awg galvanised steel 02:34 < katsmeow> welds on 22 awg copper-constan or copper-iron 02:36 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:38 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk 02:56 < flazmot> o/ heil hitler o/ juden verboten 02:57 < katsmeow-afk> :-/ 03:02 < flazmot> juden verboten 03:02 < flazmot> means JEWS GET OUT 03:05 < flazmot> :) colloquially 03:17 < katsmeow-afk> i know what itmeans 03:17 < katsmeow-afk> gnite 04:04 -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-41-223.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:00 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:33 -!- El_Matarife [n=El_Matar@adsl-68-88-200-16.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:14 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:18 < El_Matarife> http://www.ntcncug.com/index.htm Dallas Fort Worth locals should come out to this today $5 plus a drive, but lots of operational machines, workshops, all kinds of stuff 08:28 -!- El_Matarife [n=El_Matar@adsl-68-88-200-16.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit ["Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de"] 08:51 < kanzure> download_virus_genomes_from_NCBI.pl 09:54 -!- kardan_ [n=kardan@p54BE5D3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:55 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE343E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:26 < kanzure> http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/ 10:26 < kanzure> have fun 10:26 < kanzure> 40 MB/sec 11:06 < kanzure> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/-it-sounds-like-something.ars/2 11:07 < kanzure> "Rather, they focus on executing as many trades per second as possible and on turning a small profit (often pennies or fractions of a penny) on each trade. This combination of high speed, massive volume, and razor-thin per-trade profits adds up over the course of a day, week, or year to some very large numbers. " 11:07 < kanzure> "For instance, a stat arb HFT platform might identify a direct correlation between positive news about Steve Jobs' health and increases in the price of AAPL; then the microsecond that the platform receives and processes an in-bound Reuters news packet containing a statement about Jobs' cancer-free status, it would immediately spit out a "buy" order for AAPL on the expectation that Apple stock is about to increase in price once this news becomes more widely known. " 11:07 < kanzure> er, final evaluation of good/bad of a news article is kinda hard to do 11:23 < kanzure> meganeura dragonflies? keiser 11:25 < kanzure> prothero arthroneura 11:26 < kanzure> jake scocha 11:27 < kanzure> wah-keat lee "advanced photon source", 3rd generation cyncotron 11:29 < kanzure> huh, insects don't have lungs? 11:32 < kanzure> so with 35% atmospheric oxygen concentration in a chamber, you might be able to grow ridiculously large bugs (given the right genetic meddling) 11:33 < kanzure> oh yay 11:33 < kanzure> http://jeb.biologists.org.ezproxy.lib.utexas.edu/cgi/content/abstract/207/20/3559 11:33 < kanzure> Plastic and evolved responses of larval tracheae and mass to varying atmospheric oxygen content in Drosophila melanogaster 11:33 < kanzure> "We investigated how atmospheric oxygen level affects the dimensions of the main dorsal tracheae (DT) and masses of larval Drosophila melanogaster (Meigen) reared for up to six generations in 10%, 21% or 40% O2 at 25°C. " 11:34 < kanzure> "After multiple generations in differing atmospheres and two further generations in 21% O2, larvae had tracheal diameters inversely related to their historical oxygen exposure, suggesting that atmospheric oxygen can produce heritable changes in insect tracheal morphology." 11:36 < kanzure> "We suggest that any selection experiment in which the selective event is more than instantaneous should explore whether plasticity in the appropriate (adaptive) direction has increased as a component of the response to selection." 12:19 < drazak> kanzure: fix it yet? :P 12:23 < kanzure> fix who now? 12:23 < kanzure> who are you 12:23 < drazak> fix pyscholar 12:24 < kanzure> what's wrong with it exactly? 12:25 < drazak> drazak@dhcp-84-253:~/pyscholar/other-code$ python pyscholar.py stem cells 12:25 < drazak> [] 12:26 < kanzure> did you try quoting it? 12:26 < kanzure> it's argument-based 12:26 < drazak> yes 12:26 < drazak> same thing 12:26 < kanzure> have you pulled? 12:26 < kanzure> "git pull" 12:26 < drazak> yeah, doing it 12:27 < drazak> same thing 12:27 < kanzure> ok now I remember what I have to do.. wget http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=stem+cells 12:27 < kanzure> and then move the file into tests/ 12:27 < kanzure> git add it, commit it, and I'll pull from you 12:27 < kanzure> right now it's currently expecting google scholar to show the same thing for logged in users and non-logged-in-users 12:27 < kanzure> heh 12:28 < kanzure> which is wrong 12:29 < drazak> ah 12:29 < kanzure> so there's something different about the google scholar output 12:29 < kanzure> that I need to figure out :/ 12:34 < kanzure> it doesn't help that "legos" refers both to the lego standard of interconnecting parts as well as the legos (the parts) 12:43 < drazak> lol 12:54 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.211.175] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:30 < kanzure> hm "mock objects" make sense for unit tests 13:32 < drazak> kanzure: any progress? 13:33 < drazak> kanzure: what school network is adl on? 13:34 < drazak> u of texas? 13:36 < drazak> kanzure: you can set google scholar to only find papers taht university of texas at austin can download 13:38 < kanzure> ok? 13:39 < drazak> well aren't those the papers taht adl.serveftp.org can download? 13:39 < drazak> that might be useful 13:39 < kanzure> there's a way you can set "filetype:pdf" in your queries 13:40 < kanzure> but in general, google scholar does not know what subscriptions your university has 13:40 < drazak> if you do both than you'll only get papers that you can actually download 13:40 < kanzure> if I do both what? 13:41 < drazak> "filetype:pdf" and getting the cookie from googlescholar preferences to only search within the u of t at austin subscriptions 13:41 < kanzure> google scholar doesn't do that 13:41 < drazak> yes it does 13:41 < kanzure> show me :) 13:41 < drazak> go to google scholar preferences 13:42 < kanzure> okay? 13:42 < drazak> and then under library links 13:42 < drazak> search for university of texas at austin 13:42 < kanzure> that did nothing 13:42 < drazak> and then check the box for that school, and uncheck the default box 13:42 < kanzure> they were already checked 13:43 < kanzure> this doesn't do what you think it does 13:43 < drazak> huh 13:43 < drazak> then what does it do? 13:43 < kanzure> it just adds a link for catalog location at your local library 13:44 < kanzure> and then you can pull up that link and figure out where it is (physically) on campus 13:44 < drazak> oh 13:44 < drazak> that sucks 13:53 -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-41-223.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:57 -!- splicer [n=patrik@h189n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:21 < kanzure> fenn: shouldn't assertRaises(some_list[some_index_it_doesn't_have], ValueError) work? 14:23 < kanzure> "Clearly, a sub-population that is uninterested in correcting their own cognition-affecting malfunctions, akin to alcoholics who are uninterested in "drying out", are NOT going to achieve any sort of technological augmentation." 14:31 < ybit> kanzure: quote source? 14:31 < ybit> thanks for bio.cc 14:32 < ybit> aren't you and fenn supposed to be in l.a. today?.. 14:35 < fenn> by one measure 14:35 < kanzure> I have no idea any more. 14:36 < fenn> kanzure: assertRaises only accepts callable arguments 14:36 < fenn> try some_list.index 14:37 < fenn> or some_list.__getslice__ 14:37 < fenn> __getitem__ 14:37 < fenn> i think getitem is what you want 14:37 * ybit wonders if i'm on /ignore 14:38 < ybit> it's actually smart of you to do that in irc if you want to make some progress and not be bombarded with distractions 14:39 < ybit> e.g. "i want to work for the next 2 hours so i will ignore everyone except those who are immediately contributing to the project for the next 2 hours and look at the log afterward" 14:39 < kanzure> ybit: you're not on ignore 14:40 < kanzure> ybit: the source is fucking bullshit, so I'm not telling you it was steve richfield 14:40 < ybit> :) 14:41 < kanzure> what is a callable argument? 14:41 < kanzure> or, how would I pass arguments to my callable? 14:41 < kanzure> assertRaises(some_list.index, ValueError, my_index_here?) 14:41 < kanzure> for some reason list objects in python do not have a "contains" method (wtf) 14:42 < ybit> ah found the quote. 14:42 * ybit wonders why a quoted search in groups.google.com didn't show anything 14:43 < kanzure> the steve richfield quote was from a mailing list not on groups.google.com 14:43 < ybit> ah 14:43 < kanzure> but since I just forwarded my response, and my response quoted him saying that, maybe it would be in the search results 14:43 < kanzure> but I would be surprised if google is that quick to parse incoming email and throw into their search inde 14:43 < kanzure> *index 14:43 < kanzure> *throw it 14:44 < ybit> i've been surprised before how quick they were to index messages 14:44 < kanzure> *something vageuly sounding like an english explanation that other people can understand 14:47 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@pool-173-48-253-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 14:47 < kanzure> git clone git://repo.or.cz/org-mode.git 14:51 < ybit> speaking of cognitive enhancement, who here uses amphetamines? 14:51 * ybit is considering switching to adderall until i can find a doc to prescribe me modafinil 14:53 < ybit> http://code.suckless.org/hg/dextra/file/513faba2591f 14:53 < kanzure> *cough* 14:54 < kanzure> I am most definitely not on amphetamines. 14:55 < ybit> grr, sometimes difficult to differentiate sarcasm on irc 14:56 < kanzure> maybe the large collection of "how to synthesize amphetamines" papers on the servers would be a suitable hint? 14:56 < ybit> :P 14:57 < ybit> s/sarcasm/humor 14:58 * ybit misses modafinil 15:00 * ybit considers setting up mumber for #hplusroadmap 15:00 < ybit> mumble* 15:01 < kanzure> ? 15:03 < ybit> is that a "what?" "why?" "how?" "when?" 15:03 < kanzure> what 15:03 < kanzure> hm. jong owns webdrug.org 15:03 < ybit> http://mumble.sourceforge.net/ 15:04 < kanzure> and supertext.org 15:04 < kanzure> subio.org is a neat domain name 15:07 < ybit> heath.im is lame 15:23 < flazmot> modafinil is five times more expensive per dose than ritalin 15:24 < flazmot> happy 4:20 on the eastern seaboard 15:58 < fenn> i wonder what these lego gears were modeled in http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=3471135 16:00 < fenn> there's this .ldr file but does ldraw really work so well? http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/jovel/Techball/techball99.ldr 16:03 < kanzure> fenn: seems to work fine to me 16:03 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/legos/2009-08-02_leocad_ldraw_techball99.ldr.png 16:03 < fenn> awesome 17:10 -!- Ian_Daniher [n=it@69.61.230.246] has quit ["leaving"] 17:16 -!- strages [n=strages@c-68-62-216-5.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:32 -!- strages [n=strages@c-68-62-216-5.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:44 < kanzure> making mock classes for unit tests is nifty 17:44 < kanzure> are there any other tricks that I have been missing out on? 17:57 < kanzure> hah! someone planted a fake ATM at defcon :) 18:36 < kanzure> unit tests for classes that have to manipulate numbers are easy.. but anything else seems kind of confusing to me. 18:37 < kanzure> i.e. some of the code seems to be nondeterministic 18:37 < kanzure> er.. does that make sense? 18:38 < kanzure> fenn: the article was about the differences between a true unit test and an "integration test" 18:40 < kanzure> ".. in which individual software modules are combined and tested as a group. It occurs after unit testing and before system testing." 18:50 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 23 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 23 normal] 19:00 < kanzure> an Assembly can be saved as a package 19:00 < kanzure> a package is not a part 19:00 < kanzure> a part does not have the data that template.yaml and data.yaml contain 19:01 < kanzure> Assembly, however, would 19:01 < kanzure> class Package and class Assembly might be the same thing (I dunno) 19:01 < kanzure> but for the sake of the namespace, 19:02 < kanzure> there is a difference between a "package" and an Assembly 19:02 < kanzure> a "package" is what you have downloaded and installed 19:02 < kanzure> sadly we have "class Package" in the codebase right now too which kind of meddles with things 19:02 < kanzure> so in the codebase, it should be called an Assembly 19:03 < fenn> ' a part does not have the data that template.yaml and data.yaml contain' is wrong 19:04 < kanzure> the unit tests for Assembly would then check to make sure that it can export a valid package I guess? so maybe we should write some tools that test whether or not a package is valid (or something- like in screw.py and lego.py to test whether or not the data in data.yaml is sane given template.yaml and the checks in the Lego class itself) 19:04 < fenn> part instances get their attribute data from data.yaml 19:04 < kanzure> so what 19:04 < kanzure> the class itself doesn't.. 19:04 < fenn> whoopdedoo 19:04 < kanzure> yeah exactly 19:05 < kanzure> a part in a package is not a part instance 19:05 < fenn> yes it is 19:05 < fenn> once it gets loaded 19:05 < kanzure> only once it gets loaded. 19:06 < kanzure> you're not going to load up every possible part instance via attribute data in data.yaml every time you want to play with an Assembly 19:09 < fenn> you want to copy the screw from the screws package into your custom thingy package data? 19:09 < fenn> or use a pointer? 19:09 < fenn> or what? 19:10 < kanzure> yeah your assembly should let you try out different possible solutions for which part instances can be used, sure 19:10 < fenn> that wasn't answering my question 19:11 < fenn> i'm wondering what you mean by "load up every possible part instance" 19:11 < kanzure> data.yaml contains different data for different instances of the part 19:11 < kanzure> big-scary-screw, little-joyful-screw 19:12 < kanzure> er.. maybe thread properties would have been better than anthrophomorphizing 19:12 < kanzure> *anthropomorphizing 19:12 < fenn> snow white and the seven screws 19:12 < kanzure> is the english system screw the one called "grumpy"? 19:13 < fenn> they're all called "screwy" 19:13 < fenn> ok enough of that 19:14 < fenn> i dont really see what this has to do with assemblies 19:14 < kanzure> did you read skdb/doc/proposals/assemblies.txt ? 19:14 < fenn> Package.add(myAssembly); Package.add(myPart) ought to work 19:15 < kanzure> why would a package have multiple assemblies? 19:15 < kanzure> er, why would a package have more than one assembly 19:15 < fenn> socket set for example 19:15 < kanzure> different sockets are catalouged in data.yaml 19:15 < kanzure> (er, I actually don't know enough about socket sets to say that) 19:16 < fenn> shouldnt an assembly just be a list of Mate or Connection objects? 19:18 < kanzure> why did I want skdb.Package to not be the same thing as a package? 19:18 < fenn> mates or assemblies* 19:18 < kanzure> this is all based off of me wanting to separate a "package" from a "package" or something silly like that 19:19 < fenn> you had an internal namespace conflict 19:19 < kanzure> it's not internal 19:19 < kanzure> it's external I thought? 19:19 < kanzure> there's a Package class in skdb 19:19 < kanzure> but it doesn't really do what a package is 19:19 < fenn> it doesnt do anything 19:19 < kanzure> a package most certainly does do something 19:19 < fenn> Package doesn't do anything (yet) 19:20 < kanzure> ok, so I guess we can say a package is an assembly, a package can have a package in it (or an assembly, or just a part) 19:20 < fenn> package in package is stupid 19:20 < fenn> a package is not an assembly 19:20 < kanzure> why is not an assembly? 19:21 < fenn> a package is some code that holds these other objects 19:21 < fenn> code or files or whatever you want to call it 19:22 < fenn> an assembly is a specific geometric relationship of parts, possibly with some other processes applied beyond just positioning 19:22 < fenn> like welding or torquing or whatever 19:22 < kanzure> s/processes/techniques/ 19:22 < fenn> right 19:23 < fenn> so is a frog an assembly? 19:23 -!- kardan_ [n=kardan@p54BE5D3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:24 < kanzure> no, a frog is a material 19:24 < kanzure> a peculiar polymerization process 19:24 < fenn> you could say the same thing about legos 19:24 < kanzure> legos are polymerized only once in their lifetime 19:25 < fenn> what about when you assemble them 19:25 < kanzure> that's requiring an assembler-agent-dealy 19:25 < kanzure> that has nothing to do with the legos being able to self-assemble (they can't) 19:25 < fenn> ok what about a lego assemblign robot 19:25 < kanzure> what about it 19:25 < fenn> is it a polymerization process resulting in a material? 19:25 < kanzure> no, it just picks up legos 19:25 < fenn> and assembles them 19:25 < kanzure> and applies some technique 19:26 < fenn> how is this different from an enzyme? 19:26 < kanzure> the robot doesn't depend on legos 19:26 < kanzure> is this philosophy yet? 19:27 < fenn> sorry i forgot to mention the robot was made from legos 19:27 < kanzure> wah 19:27 < fenn> (lego assembling) robot vs lego (assembling robot) 19:28 < fenn> life is machinery 19:29 < kanzure> yes but that doesn't mean it fits into our pathetic model 19:29 < kanzure> human engineering artifacts are different 19:29 < fenn> the difference between an enzyme and some random conglomerations of amino acids is that you can classify an amino acid, and it has source code 19:29 < fenn> erm, s/amino acid/enzyme/ 19:30 < fenn> i dont think it's that different 19:30 < fenn> they have moving parts and specific functionalities (sometimes more than one) 19:30 < fenn> but you can use any tool as a hammer 19:31 < fenn> ok enough philosophy 19:31 < kanzure> btw for the record I do actually agree that a frog is an assembly 19:31 < kanzure> but that doesn't mean that the assembly class works for a frog yet 19:31 < fenn> one way to resolve this semantic dilemma is to realize that "assembly" or "weldment" is really just some sort of linguistic form of referring to the result of a technique 19:33 < fenn> for i in taxonomy.walk(): i.append("age"); print i 19:33 < fenn> something like that 19:36 < fenn> is a soldered PCB typically referred to as an assembly? 19:36 < kanzure> it's an assembled pcb :p 19:37 < fenn> looks like "PCB assembly" is used quite often but refers to the technique of assembling them 19:37 < fenn> god don't we have something better than english yet? 19:39 < kanzure> why is template.yaml not in metadata.yaml? 19:39 < fenn> it should be 19:40 < fenn> we need a metadata.yaml generator script 19:41 < fenn> too bad yaml doesn't have an include function 19:42 < kanzure> did you come up with your fixed legos lego part ontology yet? 19:42 < fenn> part ontology? 19:42 < fenn> list of possible interface types? 19:42 < kanzure> something about "peg" and "hole" not really describing wtf is going on 19:47 < genehacker> lego assembly bot? 19:47 < genehacker> I've got some ideas for that 19:50 < fenn> oh, you and your ideas. 20:24 < kanzure> I wonder if mplayer has a -vo:lego mode 20:37 < genehacker> mplayer? 21:04 < kanzure> it's a linux media player 21:06 < fenn> 'host of Top Gear to build full size house out of Lego, including flushable toilet and electricity' 21:07 < kanzure> I wouldn't mind treating boxes that I have ssh access to as part of my 'cloud', but that's about as far as I'm willing to go 21:07 < kanzure> does legos do 220V? 21:07 < kanzure> does lego do 220V? 21:10 < fenn> heh (paraphrased) "please remember to bring your donated bricks, but we must use new and undamaged bricks for maximum strength" 21:12 < fenn> wow " 21:12 < fenn> India plans to issue unique numbers and biometric ID cards to every one of its 1.2 billion citizens, many of whom have no documented proof of existence." 21:14 < drazak> THEY DON'T EXIST, BECAUSE IT'S NOT DOCUMENTED 21:15 < kanzure> EXISTENCE NOT DOCUMENTED, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST 21:15 < kanzure> er, the document I mean 21:15 < kanzure> I'm so confused 21:15 < drazak> man 21:15 < drazak> tomorrow is gonna be boring as hell 21:17 < fenn> heh india has a problem with illegal immigrants 21:17 < kanzure> machines in my /etc/hosts file: pikachu, davinci, leibniz, minsky, heckle, and 'biowebhost' (ugh). 21:17 < kanzure> er who wants to immigrate to india? 21:17 < xp_prg> fenn it does? 21:17 < fenn> according to the new york times :\ 21:18 < kanzure> I'm special, the nyt says so 21:18 < kanzure> do I get a cookie now? 21:18 < fenn> fresh out of cookies 21:20 < kanzure> huh, so this whole yaml deal is pretty nice.. wrapping some common skdb calls into a shell utility is made drastically more eay because now it's just a matter of piping yaml to individual utilities (or paths, or something) 21:20 < kanzure> instead of forcing the user to have to use a python interpreter, I mean 21:20 < kanzure> (which wouldn't be the end of the world anyway, but it's still not a anice thing to do ) 21:20 < kanzure> *a nice 21:21 < fenn> anyone know what is happening in this picture? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00594/army_motorbike_594655a.jpg 21:22 < kanzure> in-flight tire rotation comes standard in the U.S. army, fenn 21:23 < fenn> chinese army actually 21:23 < kanzure> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1323291&cid=28920603 21:23 < kanzure> " 21:23 < kanzure> "I think the real fail was the cops hauling the machine away without asking for help from the Defcon attendees. Sort of like a guy having a heart attack at a cardiologists convention and the cops keeping everybody back until an ambulance can arrive and take him to a hospital. 21:24 < kanzure> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1323291&cid=28920711 21:24 < kanzure> "The true FAIL was the Defcon attendees failing to spot and realize that the cops hauling the machines away were fake, and the ATM was real." 21:28 < flazmot> lol what 21:29 < kanzure> fake ATM at defcon 21:29 < drazak> kanzure: that's ok, apparently my uncle was at some conference and like 3/4's of the people were surgeons 21:29 < drazak> and someone collapsed 21:29 < drazak> and they all freaked out 21:29 < fenn> OMG BLOOD 21:29 < kanzure> surgeons don't deal with collapsing patients 21:29 < drazak> they were like 21:30 < drazak> OMGWTFBBQ 21:30 < kanzure> surgeons are interesting people because they always are in control in their surgical bay 21:30 < kanzure> the patient is knocked out, they have the team that they want, all of their special instruments, whatever 21:31 < kanzure> well I guess they just suck if they went all omgwtfbbq 21:32 < drazak> well most of them were plastic surgeons 21:33 < flazmot> i knew about the fake atm 21:34 < fenn> how is this thing supposed to get the PIN? http://web.inter.nl.net/users/p.c.wiegmans/skimapparaat/index.html 21:35 < drazak> touch screen 21:36 < fenn> oh i see there's a camera 21:36 < fenn> wow i didnt even notice that little black dot 21:36 < kanzure> is there a way to make boredom take effort? 21:38 < kanzure> hah 21:38 < kanzure> "Center for the Study of Boredom" 21:38 < kanzure> is located in Allen, Texas 21:38 < kanzure> *McAllen 21:46 < kanzure> "All “cultural advance” derives from the need to withstand boredom;" meh http://www.boredominterest.net/boredomcenter.html 21:46 * kanzure needs more neuroscience 21:46 -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-41-223.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:49 < kanzure> "The earliest appearance of yawning was observed in a 15-week-old embryo (De Vries, Visser, & 21:49 < kanzure> Prechtl, 1983). 21:51 < kanzure> "Boredom induces drowsiness by stimulating the sleep generating system through the interconnection of the prefrontal area and the limbic system with the serotoninergic raphe pontine nuclei and the ascendant activatory reticular system (AARS). When boredom is associated with fatigue, the latter potentiates the drowsiness-inducing effect (Suganami, 1977)." 21:52 < fenn> that's probably the most gobbeldygooky sentence i've seen yet 21:52 -!- fenn changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: serotoninergic raphe pontine nuclei and the ascendant activatory reticular system 21:52 < kanzure> " Thus, 21:52 < kanzure> boredom, drowsiness, and fatigue lead to hypoxia, reduced metabolic rate, and increased secretion of 21:52 < kanzure> hypnogenic derivatives. 21:52 < kanzure> " 21:52 < kanzure> maybe they were bored while writing it 21:53 < kanzure> "reticular neuronal yawning complex". so there's a yawning region of the brain. heh. 21:54 < fenn> "join the military" is listed as something people do when they're bored? 21:54 < fenn> "get a crush on a political candidate" 21:54 < flazmot> but not drug abuse 21:54 < fenn> it only says "smoke marijuana" nothing about drug abuse 21:55 < flazmot> ok 21:55 < fenn> i wonder if this list is in decreasing order of frequency 21:56 < fenn> "For some of us, boredom busters can entail engaging in much darker, harsher, destructive behaviors, including a broad range of sadistic and masochistic activities engaged in for the shock, pain, and suffering that such behaviors effect in others and in ourselves." 21:56 < fenn> then they go on to say the kkk and nazi's are a product of boredom? 21:57 < fenn> oo "designer kidnappings" 21:57 < fenn> that's what i want to do when i grow up 21:59 -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-41-223.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:02 < kanzure> "during coma, yawning predicts the approach of wakefulness" 22:02 < kanzure> (cite (Braunwald et al., 1987).) 22:05 < genehacker> hahaha defcon lol 22:06 < fenn> robert anton wilson was totally obsessed with this idea of "hedonics" which is the science of anti-boredom 22:06 < genehacker> yeah about hedonics... 22:07 < genehacker> more like business 22:07 < fenn> how is it i keep ending up at superhappiness.com? 22:08 < genehacker> it's a memetic hazard 22:08 < fenn> no 22:08 < fenn> there's a very specific set of ideas there 22:08 < genehacker> ok 22:10 < genehacker> yay for singing software 22:10 < fenn> did you just discover Hatsune Miku? 22:10 < genehacker> no 22:11 < genehacker> I'm listen to some quite good Hatsune 22:11 < genehacker> *listening 22:11 < flazmot> gene hacker are you a bio punk 22:12 < genehacker> maybe 22:12 < genehacker> are you a mol bio person? 22:12 < drazak> Iam 22:12 < genehacker> no flazmot 22:12 < genehacker> your IP 22:12 * kanzure frowns because he's not much of a person 22:12 < flazmot> no i don t have any equipment for that 22:13 < drazak> fenn: have you read Illuminatus!? 22:13 < genehacker> it was at utexas the other day 22:13 < fenn> drazak: nup 22:13 < genehacker> I'm at utexas 22:13 < fenn> drazak: i've read schrodinger's cat and prometheus rising 22:13 < genehacker> but I'm not a biopunk yet... 22:13 < drazak> ah 22:13 < drazak> I ahven't read those yet 22:13 < fenn> somehow i dont think they're his best work 22:13 < genehacker> but I want to be the architect of biohacking 22:14 < drazak> fenn: Illuminatus! is very good 22:14 < drazak> extremely good 22:14 < fenn> prometheus rising is notable for his discussion of imprinting 22:14 < fenn> which i havent heard of anywhere else 22:14 < genehacker> I want to build a DNA synthesizer that anyone could make 22:14 < drazak> the appendix of Illuminatus! is awesome 22:15 < genehacker> however, I haven't found a way to make the reagents for gene synthesis so that is on hold 22:15 < drazak> genehacker: I'd come up with a new method :P 22:15 < genehacker> FOR? 22:15 < genehacker> if you know o-chem 22:15 < genehacker> you can help me 22:16 < genehacker> oh flazmot you didn't have an utexas ip 22:16 < genehacker> it was zvader 22:16 < genehacker> so drazak what is your method 22:16 < drazak> no idea, I'm justsaying you should 22:17 < genehacker> TELL ME THAT METHOD 22:17 < kanzure> you should write a text file with a list of all DNA synthesis techniques that you know of, genehacker 22:17 < kanzure> and you could even commit it to skdb if you want 22:17 < genehacker> I know of 2 22:17 < genehacker> how do I do that 22:18 < kanzure> are you on ubuntu right now? 22:18 < drazak> kanzure: what's skdb? 22:18 < kanzure> drazak: apt-get but for hardware 22:18 < kanzure> heh apparently dogs catch human yawns 22:19 < genehacker> no 22:19 < fenn> what's the transmission rate of a yawn? 22:19 < fenn> percentage, m/s, etc 22:19 < genehacker> probably 20 khz 22:19 < kanzure> dunno but I've been yawning over here like crazy trying to see if my psychic link to fenn is working 22:19 < kanzure> I don't think it is 22:19 < fenn> nope 22:20 < kanzure> genehacker: you open up a text editor and you start typing 22:20 < genehacker> ok 22:20 < kanzure> if you're on ubuntu, I could give you some more detailed instructions 22:20 < genehacker> ok here's the deal 22:20 < genehacker> I need to get the encryption key to my home network 22:21 < kanzure> what encryption key? 22:22 < fenn> huh. scrolling through wp's "list of vegans" i see George Church 22:22 < genehacker> he's a vegan? 22:22 < genehacker> he does bioresearch 22:22 < drazak> dude 22:23 < drazak> there's like 2 vegans on the floor of my lab 22:23 < drazak> like WHAT THE FUCK 22:23 < drazak> WE KILL HAMSTERS 22:23 < drazak> AND RATS 22:23 < drazak> AND MICE 22:23 < drazak> AND GUINEA PIGS 22:23 < drazak> AND GOATS 22:23 < genehacker> do you know how many salmon died for that synthetic DNA? 22:23 < genehacker> maybe they're trying to compensate 22:23 < drazak> I don't fucking know man 22:24 < drazak> but ti freaks me out 22:24 < QuantumG> veganism is a religion.. it requires no rationalization 22:24 < fenn> hah "church's chicken founder George Church" 22:24 < kanzure> is that the same George Church? 22:24 < fenn> "after seeing what goes into the chicken i decided to stop eating it" (kidding) 22:24 < genehacker> watch out if you see any suspicious packages 22:25 < genehacker> church's synthetic chicken? 22:25 < genehacker> or people running away with cages... 22:25 < kanzure> yeah it runs around without a head laying golden eggs of fossil fuels 22:26 < drazak> lol 22:26 < genehacker> hahaha 22:27 < genehacker> you heard of bacterial gold mining? 22:27 < genehacker> using bacteria to mine gold 22:28 < drazak> dude 22:28 < fenn> using quantum sea cucumbers to find the lost philosopher's stone? 22:28 < drazak> didn't I talk about doing that in here? 22:28 < drazak> like 18 months ago? 22:28 < drazak> man what the fuck 22:28 < genehacker> I heard about it years ago 22:28 < drazak> they steal all my ideas 22:28 < fenn> drazak: it's a recurrent theme, don't feel bad 22:28 < genehacker> don't worry it could be worse 22:28 < drazak> I wanted to do it with platinum 22:28 < genehacker> we could be stuck in an endless recursion of time 22:29 < fenn> the forever now 22:29 < genehacker> an endless august 22:29 < fenn> texas summer 22:29 < drazak> man 22:29 < fenn> "it's always summer in texas" after all 22:29 < drazak> it's fucking august 22:29 < genehacker> good you haven't seen it 22:31 < ybit> http://yb.it is available 22:32 < kanzure> interesting, there's a study where they showed a positive correlation between particular eye movement / fixation patterns and successful solving of a diagram-represented problem. 22:33 < drazak> man 22:33 < drazak> I never look at diagrams the same way as other people 22:33 < kanzure> upside down? 22:33 < drazak> well, like 22:33 < drazak> I'll look at something 22:33 < drazak> then close my eyes and remember it, to think about solving it 22:35 < ybit> 22:11 * kanzure frowns because he's not much of a person 22:36 * ybit is confused by that statement 22:36 < fenn> kanzure is mostly just a humanoid interface to the data integration entity 22:36 < QuantumG> you're all bots 22:36 < fenn> nuh uh.. you're the bot 22:37 < kanzure> I'm not. 22:37 * kanzure plots your demise 22:37 < fenn> who's a widdle botty wotty 22:39 < genehacker> I'm human I swear 22:40 < drazak> I almost married a human 22:41 < fenn> was she an axe murderer as well? 22:42 < drazak> do any of you like Gary Numan? 22:42 < fenn> meh 22:43 < kanzure> Wearable pupil position detection system utilizing dye-sensitized photovoltaic devices 22:44 < fenn> what's wrong with IR cameras? 22:45 < genehacker> is that a paper or a proposal 22:45 < fenn> huh. WP sez gary numan has asperger's syndrome 22:45 < genehacker> he's one of us 22:46 < drazak> yay 22:46 < drazak> actually 22:46 < drazak> I think I knew he was an aspie 22:47 < fenn> why do you think that? 22:48 < kanzure> fenn: they are in your way 22:49 < QuantumG> http://focusfusion.org/index.php/site/article/wall_construction/ 22:49 < QuantumG> building a wall... excitement 22:49 < fenn> OMG a wall! they should hire marcin jakubowsky 22:50 < QuantumG> famous wall builder? 22:50 < fenn> er, sort of 22:50 < kanzure> basically it works like a solar cell except with the light reflected from the white of the eyes 22:50 < fenn> QuantumG: physics PhD turned brickmaker 22:50 < kanzure> if marcin doesn't get his act together he will be forever known for wall building 22:50 < drazak> fenn: because I'd read his WP 22:50 < fenn> what's dye-sensitized supposed to mean? 22:51 < fenn> and how do they not get in your way any more than a camera? 22:51 < kanzure> fenn: it's a photo-voltaic device that responds to a particular wavelength of light (due to the dye) 22:51 < kanzure> they are transparent 22:51 < QuantumG> fenn: he should take some pictures of this brick laying, at least then it wouldn't be as debatable as his phd. 22:51 < fenn> how does it create an image? (no focusing) 22:51 < kanzure> what image? :) 22:51 < fenn> QuantumG: look at openfarmtech.org 22:52 < kanzure> fenn: this only tracks pupil movement 22:52 < kanzure> er, pupil position 22:52 < kanzure> but movement can be extracted from that information 22:52 < genehacker> so kanzure it can figure out what your looking at? 22:52 < genehacker> can it be built into glasses? 22:52 < kanzure> yes 22:52 < kanzure> but no, it doesn't figure out what you're looking at 22:52 < fenn> QuantumG: i thought the dpf would just emit some x-rays 22:53 < fenn> does it really need all that shielding? 22:53 < kanzure> it would be fun to make a device that repositions your head when you move your eyes away from some target 22:53 < QuantumG> they expect to do fusion.. and although its very "clean" and not very "hot" it's still radioactive. 22:54 < kanzure> here's the paper: http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Wearable%20pupil%20position%20detection%20system%20utilizing%20dye-sensitized%20photovoltaic%20devices.pdf 22:54 < fenn> like a chicken? 22:54 < genehacker> oh yeah 22:55 < kanzure> no, I think a chicken can look at other things while keeping its neck in alignment 22:55 < kanzure> not sure though 22:56 < fenn> i always wanted to do that but with LCD's on a car windshield to block out just the sun 22:56 < fenn> big fat 1" pixels 22:57 < kanzure> heh it would be absolutely evil to do a DMD/HUD display of neuronal activity in V1 on these wearable glasses that had these detectors.. such that you're doing immediate feedback from V1 back to the eyes and then back to V1 22:57 < kanzure> is that sufficiently evil? 22:57 < fenn> bah. you read that in 'mister volition' 22:57 < kanzure> I read about it in neverness 22:57 < fenn> hm. which came out first? 22:57 < kanzure> I didn't actually read mister volition .. only the first few pages, until it started to suck. 22:57 < kanzure> neverness was 88 22:58 < fenn> ok that was probably first 22:58 < kanzure> zindell stole ideas from everywhere though 22:59 < kanzure> google is showing "Friends: " strings for facebook results 22:59 < kanzure> "So-and-so. Chicago IL - Friends: Alex Wade, Heather Geissinger, Mitch Kenoe, Mike Mocchi" 22:59 < fenn> can i reverse the friend hash? 22:59 < fenn> friendof: alex wade, heather geissinger, mitch keno 23:00 < kanzure> sorry, facebook is here to make your life miserable 23:00 < kanzure> you would have to manually scrape that data 23:00 < kanzure> and the new ajax bullshit makes that even more annoying 23:00 < QuantumG> http://focusfusion.org/index.php/site/article/instrumentation_and_auxiliary_equipment/ 23:01 < fenn> kanzure: i dont think you have to put the camera directly in line of sight 23:01 < fenn> it would never be perfectly lined up anyway 23:01 < kanzure> what camera? 23:02 < fenn> an IR camera for eye tracking 23:06 < kanzure> it would be interesting to see if there are common scanpaths for common activities 23:07 < kanzure> huh 23:07 < kanzure> so somebody did that, but also added brief flashing red dots to where the eyes were supposed to go next for 'desired scanpaths' 23:08 < fenn> did people solve the problem faster/better? 23:08 * kanzure reads 23:08 < kanzure> not sure they were doing problem solving 23:10 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Guiding%20attention%20by%20external%20control%20of%20the%20scanpath.pdf 23:12 < fenn> seems to be borken 23:12 < kanzure> chmod? 23:13 < fenn> not sure; it just never finishes loading 23:13 < kanzure> try now? 23:13 < kanzure> it never finishes uploading. 23:13 * kanzure waits for scp to decide that 100% means 100% 23:13 < kanzure> there you go 23:22 < kanzure> "Noton and Stark's scanpath theory of 1971 predicts that a subject scans a new stimulis during the first exposure and stores the sequence of fixations in memory as a spatial model, so that a scanpath is established. When the subject is re-exposed to that stimulus, the first few eye movements tend to follow the same scanpath established during the initial viewing of the stimulis, which facilitates stimulis recognition." 23:22 < fenn> the image compression is neat 23:22 < fenn> 'ignore anything not interesting' 23:25 < QuantumG> so, how that shit been actually experimentally tested? 23:25 < kanzure> it would be interesting to be blind to boring-stuff 23:25 < QuantumG> how has 23:25 < kanzure> QuantumG: did you look at the paper? 23:25 < kanzure> the monocular wearable seems like a test to me 23:26 < kanzure> that paper actually has some pretty good data 23:26 < kanzure> they bothered to track eye movements and cluster them and everything :p 23:27 < kanzure> so apparently scanpaths are a simple markov model 23:28 < fenn> naw 23:28 < fenn> you have to know where to move next 23:28 < fenn> you dont just know that, it's guided by clues from your peripheral vision 23:29 < fenn> it happens continuously, not all at once, i mean 23:29 < kanzure> how does that 'naw' me 23:30 < kanzure> anyway, it would be useful to integrate a programming environment with the subliminal scanpath setups 23:30 < kanzure> for instance, new error messages that you might miss on the screen 23:34 < fenn> how is this different from just a blinking light? 23:35 < QuantumG> its more annoying because it is subliminal 23:35 < fenn> the markov model stuff all assumes a discrete set of choices, but your eye position is not discrete (it's continuous, for lack of a better word) 23:35 < fenn> QuantumG: it might actually be less annoying 23:35 < QuantumG> I wonder if you could use it to make easy Sudoku puzzles hard for experts 23:36 < QuantumG> I imagine many people giving up Sudoku in disgust 23:37 < QuantumG> "I used to be good at it, then I started playing on this new website and now I suck at even the simplest games.. even when I went back to pen and paper!" 23:37 < QuantumG> deprogramming their scanning skills 23:37 < fenn> does the website have blinky banner ads or something? 23:38 < QuantumG> no.. it uses the subliminal red dots to direct their scanpath to unproductive strategies 23:39 < fenn> "i bet you cant beat me at this sudoku game"? 23:40 < fenn> if $ip == competitor: insert_red_dots_of_doom() 23:41 < fenn> i've been stuck on ways to integrate multispectral data into regular field of view without occluding normal colors 23:41 < kanzure> QuantumG: scanpaths in sodoku would be a good test. but the point of the paper was that individuals have their own (learned (plastic)) scanpaths, so these can be either elaborated, used, or done away with. 23:41 < fenn> i thought if i could blink colors at a certain rate it would actually look like a different color, like octarine or something 23:42 < fenn> "done away with" sounds sufficiently evil 23:42 -!- Overand is now known as Andover1981 23:42 -!- Andover1981 is now known as Overand 23:42 < kanzure> "switched to something else" is what I meant to say 23:43 < QuantumG> ya, for example, making it so you can't even recognize a picture of your own mother 23:43 < kanzure> who said I can recognize a picture of my own mother? 23:43 < fenn> maybe you could if your software made you do it the same way each time 23:43 < QuantumG> fenn did 23:43 < QuantumG> kill him! 23:44 < fenn> do away with him! 23:44 < kanzure> where did I pick up that phrase anyway? 23:44 < kanzure> something british? 23:44 < fenn> probably the justice league 23:44 < kanzure> spiderman unlimited maybe 23:52 < ybit> flazmot: you had mentioned partaking of mary-j to alter your mood. what types do you use for different situations? i've experience several different highs, so i'm curious which you prefer 23:53 < fenn> heh "Only one of approximately 15 recently published college-level introductory psychology textbooks has referenced ‘boredom,’ and that one textbook referenced _my_ 1983-published book on boredom." 23:57 < kanzure> oh so here's why template.yaml wasn't in metadata.yaml - the "!lego" tag being in metadata.yaml would totally fuck everything up 23:57 < kanzure> not to mention the !Peg and !Hole tags 23:59 < fenn> but what if those are standard interfaces instead? like screw-thread or something 23:59 < kanzure> hm maybe I'll add an attribute/field that lists "provided tags that this package provides"