--- Day changed Fri Aug 14 2009
00:08 < genehackerclone> huh what's up with google's logo
00:09 < genehackerclone> it's a coil of wire wrapped around a nail hooked up to a battery near a compass?
00:09 < genehackerclone> a solenoid?
00:10 < QuantumG> hover of it
00:10 < QuantumG> over
00:11 < QuantumG> or even click on it
00:16 < genehackerclone> tried clicking
00:16 < genehackerclone> don't think they've updated it yet
00:16 < QuantumG> I just clicked on it, it worked
00:17 < QuantumG> http://www.google.com.au/#q=Hans+Christian+%C3%98rsted&ct=orsted09&oi=ddle&fp=c0054a8432a20d92
00:17 < QuantumG> is the url it gives
00:18 < genehackerclone> ah there we are
00:18 < genehackerclone> thanks
00:29 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk
00:29  * katsmeow-afk waves gnites 
00:30 < genehackerclone> http://www.users.uswest.net/~kmaxon/page/side/mold_mach_137.htm
00:32 < genehackerclone> homebrew injection molding
01:46 < fenn> someone please tell me why i'm still awake
02:05 < fenn> the Swedish Moderate Party commented "Decriminalizing all non-commercial file sharing and forcing the market to adapt is not just the best solution. It's the only solution"
02:05 < fenn> if that's the moderate party, what are the radicals like!
02:08 < fenn> "It’s not where you take things from, it’s where you take them to."
02:09 < genehackerclone> because you have forced a reset of your sleep cycle
02:09 < fenn> possibly
02:09 < genehackerclone> please refer to sleep cycle reset procedures to reset your sleep cycle
02:09 < fenn> i did force myself to sleep yesterday at 3~ am
02:09 < genehackerclone> blast
02:10 < genehackerclone> I am suffering the consequences of having old out of date hardware
02:11 < fenn> nonsense
02:12 < fenn> it can't be worse than my laptop
02:12 < genehackerclone> trying getting a music/picture/video application working on a DS with an obscure flashcart
02:13 < fenn> btw gene did you stop to wonder why blacklight power has been 'validated' by some podunk college in the middle of nowhere, insted of Princeton which is right next door to them?
02:14 < genehackerclone> HAHAHAHAHA
02:14 < genehackerclone> awesome
02:14 < fenn> keeping in mind that they have some $50M in funding to do with what they will
02:15 < genehackerclone> apparently my old obscure flashcart that isn't really a flashcart
02:15 < fenn> it's a bomb!
02:15 < genehackerclone> is really a compact flash port hooked up to a tiny hard drive
02:15 < fenn> oh neat
02:16 < genehackerclone> since tiny harddrives are obsolete I can remove the tiny harddrive and put in a compact flash card
02:16 < genehackerclone> with more storage capacity
02:16 < fenn> meh
02:16 < genehackerclone> though that'll have to wait
02:16 < genehackerclone> because I'm going to mexico tomorrow
02:20 < fenn> not quite so exciting when you live in texas
02:21 < genehackerclone> I know
02:22 < genehackerclone> mexico cozumel actually
02:22 < genehackerclone> hmmm...
02:22 < genehackerclone> would it be safe to replace the hard drive with a compact flash card?
02:22 < genehackerclone> only one source says I can do this
02:23 < fenn> safe?
02:23 < genehackerclone> wouldn't a compact flash not be compatible because the drivers were different
02:23 < fenn> no
02:23 < fenn> CF is IDE in disguise
02:24 < genehackerclone> you are correct
02:25 < genehackerclone> looks like the company that made this uses compact flash in the same electronics
02:26 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r df7bd7fc1726 /doc/todo/TODO: rawr
02:27 < genehackerclone> rawr???
02:28 < fenn> RAWRRRR!
02:29 < fenn> perhaps i should write a snazzy commit message generator
02:30 < fenn> or i could just pick a random line from funny taglines or the BOFH excuses
02:36 < genehackerclone> is there a funnytaglines.lib?
02:41 < fenn> not sure where i got alltags.txt
02:41 < fenn> the bofh excuses are from fortunes-bofh-excuses
02:41 < fenn> apt-cache search fortune
02:41 < genehackerclone> an automatic excuse generator?
02:42 < fenn> yep
02:42 < genehackerclone> wow
02:42 < fenn> i have it set to provide an excuse every time i log in or type 'wtf'
02:42 < genehackerclone> how well does it work?
02:42 < fenn> very well thank you
02:43 < genehackerclone> interesting
02:43 < fenn> put this in .bashrc
02:43 < fenn> alias wtf='n=$RANDOM ; let "n %= $(cat ~/.excuses | wc -l)" ;echo "WARNING: `head -n $n ~/.excuses |tail -n 1`"'
02:43 < genehackerclone> is it anything like matlab's why command?
02:43 < fenn> dunno i've never used matlab
02:44 < genehackerclone> then log into the me appserver open matlab and type why
02:45 < fenn> i dont have a student account (no citrix etc)
02:45 < fenn> i'd like to play around with 20sim some time
02:45 < genehackerclone> http://finengineer.blogspot.com/2006/02/matlab-why-function.html
02:45 < fenn> matlab just looks like a sad excuse for mathematica
02:45 < genehackerclone> 20 sim?
02:45 < genehackerclone> MATLAB IS AWESOME
02:46 < fenn> multi domain simulation
02:46 < genehackerclone> I don't know the HERESY that is mathematic
02:46 < genehackerclone> a
02:46 < genehackerclone> blast
02:49 < fenn> wrong matlab: http://jeffpatton.net/Blog-images/Matlab.jpg
02:50 < fenn> ok matlab is boring
02:50 < fenn> apt-get install fortunes-debian-hints
02:51  * fenn attempts to sleep again
02:52 < genehackerclone> how does one format a card?
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05:08 < kanzure> microwave flash sintering of inkjet-printed silver tracks on polymer substrates: http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Microwave%20flash%20sintering%20of%20inkjet-printed%20silver%20tracks%20on%20polymer%20substrates.pdf
05:08 < kanzure> (from Superkuh)
05:10 < genehackerclone> woah
05:22 -!- genehackerclone [n=noko@pool-173-57-41-223.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit []
07:46 < mason-l> I'm not sure if this counts: http://www.mathstat.uottawa.ca/~rsmith/Zombies.pdf titled: "When Zombies Attack!: Mathematical Modeling of an Outbreak of Zombie Infection" :)
08:11 < kanzure> youtube currently is featuring a video with the title "Norwegian girl gets raped by a huge monkey" and it has 4,705,294 views
08:11 < kanzure> wtf?
08:11 < drazak> "containing 0.1% NaN3"
08:11 < drazak> thank you antibody sheet
08:13 < kanzure> huh google's logo changes from the regular one to the coiled one upon page load
08:13 < kanzure> oh shit
08:13 < drazak> it's sodium azide
08:13 < kanzure> http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_Kai
08:14 < kanzure> "Dragon Ball Kai (ドラゴンボール改　「カイ」) is an anime series that is an HD Remaster and Recut of Dragon Ball Z done for its 20th Anniversary."
08:14 < kanzure> opening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnvupMV9su4&feature=related
08:15 < drazak> ...
08:17 < kanzure> there's no better way to see the prince of all saiyans blasted into hell for eternity than in full 1080p HD.
08:56 < drazak> man
08:56 < drazak> you do realize
08:56 < drazak> I stopped watching DB like, 8 years ago?
09:37 < kanzure> well you can only watch it so many times
09:37 < kanzure> but after that you just don't watch it any more
09:37 < kanzure> but that doesn't mean that you've stopped knowing about it or something
09:40 < drazak> yes, yes it does
09:40 < drazak> nanananananananana
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10:04 < kanzure> fenn: what was the name of the python web framework that worked with gtk but also over the web?
10:05 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE442F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:10 < kanzure> whole brain emulation roadmap: http://www.philosophy.ox.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/3853/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf
10:14 < fenn> pyjamas
10:14 < fenn> apt-get remove python-apport
10:15 < drazak> lets een here...
10:16 < fenn> kanzure: "kai" just means "improved" or "corrected"
10:16 < fenn> that particular kai at least..
10:16 < drazak> made the gel, in the fridge setting, aliquoted conditioned media, fed those cells, need to feed the other mscs, protein samples are done... hmm
10:17 < drazak> could prepare the other samples for eliza... but I think I'll do that on wednesday or the monday after that, when I have 32 or 48 samples
10:17 < drazak> instead of 16
10:17 < drazak> er, elisa
10:19 < kanzure> fenn: I would have guessed "kai" would be a reference to the "ki" in the show ("energy")
10:19 < drazak> can't get coffee until after lunch
10:20 < drazak> I bet there's donuts in the coffee room though
10:20 -!- drazak is now known as draz|lab
10:20 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 28 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 28 normal]
10:22 < fenn> nah words dont work like that
10:22 < kanzure> was assuming that I just knew an incorrect spelling
10:23 < fenn> ki is also spelled qi or chi
10:23 < kanzure> hell there are people still spelling out "saijyan"
10:23 < fenn> saiyajin
10:23 < fenn> (saiya people)
10:23  * kanzure thought the romanization was saiyan
10:23 < fenn> it is
10:23 < fenn> there's two ways to romanize it
10:24 < fenn> one is direct conversion of the phonetics
10:24 < fenn> the other is using english semantics
10:24 < kanzure> but anyway, there were people who would spell it not 'saiyan' and not 'saiyajin'
10:24 < fenn> they're just idiots then
10:25 < kanzure> no arguments there
10:25 < kanzure> was just trying to show it's possible for me to be wrong with spelling when it comes to dbz
10:25 < kanzure> I was a l33t hax0r back when I was watching it or something
10:25 < kanzure> back when my spelling was absolutely terrible
10:26 < fenn> right well 'kai' means about fifty things
10:26 < kanzure> I think it also means "god"
10:26 < fenn> so it doesnt matter how you spell it if you dont have the kanji
10:26 < fenn> kami == god
10:27 < fenn> sorta
10:28 < kanzure> why do you use gp_Trsf().Multiply(trsf) sometimes?
10:29 < kanzure> is the .Multiply() doing something that I should know about?
10:30 < fenn> Multiply modifies the gp_Trsf
10:30 < fenn> Multiplied does not(?)
10:30 < kanzure> so you consecutively do gp_Trsf().Multiply() in order to "stack" transforms on top of one another?
10:30 < fenn> right
10:30 < fenn> at least i hope so
10:31 < kanzure> thanks for the encouragement
10:34 < kanzure> it would be nice to be able to say transform1+transform2 where transform1 might be Rotation and transform2 might be Translation (two classes in geom.py atm)
10:35 < kanzure> but how would I keep track of the original transforms versus the "computed" transforms?
10:35 < kanzure> the "computed" transforms are what you get when you do Multiply or Multiplied
10:35 < kanzure> the "original transforms" are the Rotation or Translation objects
10:35 < fenn> well..
10:35 < fenn> each part has a transform right?
10:36 < fenn> so if you build up a tree of parts you traverse to the root of the tree, multiplying by each part's transform along the way
10:36 < kanzure> I'm just trying to make a tree of transforms, not a tree of parts
10:36 < fenn> same thing i guess
10:37 < kanzure> well the issue is how to deal with OCC bullshit in this case
10:37 < fenn> makes more sense to me that the parts are connected
10:37 < kanzure> because there's a difference between gp_Trsf and the Rotation or Translation objects that I have
10:37 < kanzure> gp_Trsf doesn't keep the "history" of what it was
10:37 < kanzure> so I'm writing some classes that wrap it up and *do* keep the "history"
10:37 < fenn> you mean whether it was a rotation or translation originally?
10:37 < kanzure> yes
10:37 < fenn> (not sure why that matters really)
10:38 < kanzure> for writing unit tests.. when you mate two parts for testing purposes, and they should result in (say) three translations and one rotation, you can check that that happens
10:38 < kanzure> because it's possible for the system to screw up with the math for transforms and still get something that "looks right"
10:39 < fenn> that's too finicky
10:39 < fenn> the test should test the result, not what particular sequence of rotations it uses to get there
10:40 < kanzure> but then if you debug it you won't know wtf happened when things go wrong
10:51 < mason-l> <kanzure> fenn: what was the name of the python web framework that worked with gtk but also over the web?
10:51 < mason-l> It was called pyjamas http://pyjs.org/
10:52 < mason-l> You create gui applications that render in webkit (using gtk) but can simultaneously translate to online ajax web-applications. 
10:53 < kanzure> oh they only render in webkit?
10:53 < kanzure> that's lame
10:53 < mason-l> no
10:53 < kanzure> for the gui you have to have webkit installed?
10:53 < mason-l> I mean it uses webkit to render the main gui. 
10:53 < mason-l> Yes
10:54 < mason-l> Otherwise it translates to a ajax web-application seamlessly. 
10:54 < mason-l> (At least from what I've heard/read, I haven't used it myself).
10:55 < mason-l> Personally I wouldn't use it myself but it sounds useful. 
10:55 < mason-l> I take it that was what you were thinking of though? 
10:56 < kanzure> yes
10:56 < kanzure> fenn was wondering why I was using django
10:56 < kanzure> so he went off and found pyjamas
10:56 < kanzure> subsequently I proceeded to forget the name of it
10:56 < kanzure> thus, my life story
10:56 < kanzure> popcorn at the frontdesk for $9
10:56 < mason-l> http://github.com/lkcl/pyjamas-desktop/tree/master <- Hasn't been actively developed for over 5 months. 
10:57 < kanzure> hrm.
10:57 < kanzure> hey, you're from uzbl?
10:57 < mason-l> Yeah, I wrote uzbl_tabbed.py & the cookie_daemon.py 
10:57 < kanzure> haven't tried those yet
10:57  * kanzure needed uzbl to exist about two years ago.
10:57 < mason-l> I'm not biases or nothin' but they are the best :P
10:58 < mason-l> s/biases/biased/
10:58 < kanzure> I was in #uzbl the other day ranting about some ideas for making a scraping system
10:58 < kanzure> so that I don't have to keep on revisiting these silly websites
10:58 < mason-l> ... Like an RSS framework? 
10:58 < kanzure> not necessarily
10:59 < kanzure> the idea is to let the user visually identify elements on the page that are of interest
10:59 < mason-l> I'm just not sure what you mean. 
10:59 < kanzure> and then figure out the xpaths for those elements
10:59 < kanzure> then put these xpaths into a file that can later be used as a scraper-template
10:59 < mason-l> And only render those elements? 
10:59 < kanzure> nope :)
10:59 < kanzure> it will dump those elements into a file
10:59 < kanzure> which can then be used by a generic scraper framework that either I'm working on or will steal from someone (dunno yet)
10:59 < kanzure> see, I secretly hate the webs
11:00 < kanzure> and I think surfraw is the best thing ever
11:00  * mason-l has heard of surfraw..
11:00 < kanzure> but I'm no idiot: I know pages change, and I know how much it sucks
11:00 < kanzure> so when it *does* change, the idea would be to pop up uzbl and let me fix it ASAP
11:00 < kanzure> without having to meditate over a few thousand lines of bullshit perl
11:01 < mason-l> Perl is incomprehensible :P
11:01 < kanzure> as much as I like uzbl, the idea would be to be in uzbl for as short as possible at a time :)
11:01 < kanzure> the rest of the time I should be in my shell working
11:01 < kanzure> $ google-search "my query goes here"
11:01 < kanzure> uzbl-notifier: error! Google has updated its bullshit. Fix now? [Y/n]
11:02 < kanzure> then my uzbl plugin should pop up and let you fix the xpath selections
11:02 < kanzure> anyway, it's only really just for me or other people who hate the webs
11:03 < mason-l> surfraw looks awesome :)
11:03 < kanzure> the problem is that the plugins die so frequently
11:03 < kanzure> it's hard to keep up
11:03 < kanzure> zotero is a firefox plugin that has a fairly active team of people fixing their translators/scrapers
11:03 < kanzure> but the problem is that their translators/scrapers only work in firefox (wtf)
11:03 < kanzure> so ideally I'd also be pushing on them a generic file format for specifying what to scrape on a page (via specifying the xpaths)
11:04 < kanzure> this is somewhat the idea behind pyscholar, except pyscholar doesn't work at the moment (it's my scholarly-related scraper framework -- it thinks it's zotero, except it's in python)
11:04 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/pyscholar/
11:31 < CIA-38> skdb: kanzure * r 16638c280b40 / (geom/geom.py unittests/test_geom.py): update test_geom and geom for test_rotation and test_translation
11:35 < kanzure> fenn: can you fix my rotation test? I don't know what the answer should be
11:39 < fenn> kanzure: if you find yourself using len() you're probably doing it wrong
11:39 < fenn> just in general
11:39 < fenn> this is not C
11:39 < kanzure> how do you do method overloads
11:41 < fenn> i dont know
11:42 < fenn> i think you just check the argument type
11:42 < kanzure> http://thebigboss.org/temp/desk.jpg
11:42 < fenn> all i need is an xterm :P
11:43 < kanzure> minimalist :(
11:43 < fenn> anyway i like keyword arguments
11:44 < fenn> i dont see why you'd want to overload rotation anyway
11:45 < fenn> it's not that hard to do rotation(gp_Ax1(foo)) vs rotation(foo)
11:48 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r 307b035f9b4c /unittests/test_geom.py: the answer
11:49 < CIA-38> skdb: kanzure * r 79928bdefe95 /geom/geom.py: use named arguments
11:50 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r b229ce035fa0 /packages/lego/demo.py: remove old comments
11:50 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r 216674e70fa0 /geom/geom.py: Merge branch 'master' of ssh://adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb
11:51 < fenn> i think rotation/translation should be a class if you're trying to store them
11:51 < fenn> else do rotate() translate()
11:51 < kanzure> not trying to store them
11:51 < kanzure> I deleted that code
11:52  * fenn runs around outside
11:52  * kanzure sees him in a chair
11:52 < kanzure> I question your /me's
11:52 < fenn> future present tense
11:53 < CIA-38> skdb: kanzure * r 478bca3609ac /unittests/test_geom.py: fix the calls in test_geom
11:53 < CIA-38> skdb: kanzure * r 546853e5fef4 /packages/lego/demo.py: Merge branch 'master' of ssh://bryan@adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb
11:54 < ybit> man it feels good not to be sick
11:54 < ybit> </tweet>
11:55  * ybit loves it when the discussion turns into brain uploading every now and then, there are always some new, interesting takes on it
11:56 < ybit> exherbo is my new fav linux distro
11:58 < ybit> so kanzure, was that an indication that you are considering experimenting with neuron stem cell cultures?
11:58 < ybit> "Some time ago
11:58 < ybit> I had some plans to start doing some neuron stem cell culture
11:59 < ybit> experiments, but now I'm not sure why I'm not already doing that."
11:59 < kanzure> yeah it's been in the back of my head for a while now
11:59 < kanzure> just got lost under the cruft maybe
12:07 < kanzure> snorting stem cells really does seem fascinating
12:08 < kanzure> however cerebral migration needs to be confirmed more thoroughly imho
12:10 < kanzure> fenn: your real answer is wrong
12:20 < kanzure> angle=math.pi; result_point =  [-5.0, 6.1230317691118863e-16, 0.0]
12:21 < kanzure> angle=math.pi/2; result_point =  [5.5511151231257827e-16, 5.0, 0.0]
12:21 < kanzure> for rotating around the origin with respect to the z axis
12:22 < kanzure> I guess that seems right. 
12:24  * kanzure imagines a circle on the xy plane 
12:28 < mason-l> Do you guys enjoy your projecteuler.net? 
12:52 < ybit> mason-l: were you here when i posted that link?
12:52 < ybit> i enjoy those type of challenges, maybe too much, which is why i've created my own 'game of life'
12:53 < ybit> to challenges that seem more immediately relevant to my personal goals
12:53 < ybit> to +tackle
13:44 < strages> anyone want to discuss meteorology?
13:50 < strages> well not in general, specific cloud forming
13:53 < kanzure> what about it?
13:53 < kanzure> have any cloud seeds?
13:55 < ybit> too lazy to go storm chasing, so you want to create your own, strages? ;)
13:56 < kanzure> maybe it's for the evil mad scientist backdrop
13:56 < kanzure> this is an imperative component of the scene, ybit
13:56 < ybit> of course, how could i forget
14:11 < ybit> alright time to think through a few things and get them typed..
14:15 < strages> It's pretty easy to create a cloud in a container
14:15 < strages> boiling water and a cold layer
14:15 < ybit> oh right meteorology, /me was about to talk about creating MEAs
14:15 < kanzure> ybit: your homework is to design me a damn adder
14:15 < strages> but I want to be able to create a rain cloud, with precipitation
14:16 < kanzure> ybit: I think that's a good start.
14:16 < kanzure> ybit: interfacing with electrodes is down the line, but seriously- digital logic circuit design is a very good place to start
14:17 < fenn> supposedly if you dump powdered barium titanate into the stratosphere it will spread out over hundreds of miles
14:17 < kanzure> how much time?
14:17 < fenn> the grains then act as nucleation sites for condensation
14:17 < fenn> a matter of hours
14:17 < strages> but that
14:17 < kanzure> what's the wind velocity?
14:17 < strages> *that's too large
14:17 < fenn> there's not much air up there
14:18 < fenn> the spreading is due to electrostatic repulsion between the particles
14:19 < fenn> (supposedly the military or <insert spooky illuminati conspiracy here> is doing this for weather modification with "scalar wave electrogravitics" or somesuch, or maybe just as an artificial ionosphere for over the horizon radar)
14:19 < strages> is it possible to creat multiple atmospheres in a single enclosed space?
14:19 < fenn> atmospheres?
14:19 < strages> pressure wise
14:19 < ybit> kanzure: today's todo consist of finishing scanning manufacturing processes reference guide, writing a roadmap for hackerspaces to develop and experiment with MEAs, finding the appropriate tabbing schema, reconfiguring dovecot, a few errands in town, getting weechat-otr to f'ing work, finalizing configurations in weechat, and if all that is complete, start working with bbdb 
14:19 < fenn> strages: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjCmwuGKR6g
14:19 < kanzure> you mean more than 1 atm?
14:19 < strages> yes
14:20 < ybit> what's your plan to experiment with neuron tissue cultures, kanzure?
14:20 < strages> fenn: yeah I've seen that before
14:21 < kanzure> ybit: nothing in particular yet. gfp expression maybe, then on to infrared photoreceptors in mouse eyes
14:21 < fenn> compressed gas cylinders go up to 500atm, but they're dangerous
14:21 < strages> not quite what I meant
14:22 < fenn> you mean like a big dome like the superdome?
14:22 < strages> like a smaller version of our atmosphere, perhaps not as complex
14:22 < fenn> 1 atm = 14.5psi
14:22 < fenn> do you mean "troposphere"?
14:22 < strages> I need to cloud layer to be floating below the top of the container
14:22 < strages> rather than forming at the top
14:23 < strages> by container, I'm thinking ~6ft tall plexiglass box
14:24 < fenn> how about a fog machine
14:24 < strages> not a real cloud
14:24 < fenn> fluffy cotton candy?
14:24 < strages> *sigh* nevermind
14:25 < fenn> i think clouds are the size they are because of the rate of thermal emission from atmospheric gas at around water's condensation temperature at earth normal pressure
14:26 < strages> cloud synthesis in a small controlled environment with the goal of small scale precipitation is what I want
14:27 < strages> precipitation from the cloud, not the container
14:27 < fenn> i dont know how you'd simulate the blackness of space in a box (a cold flat plate would collect condensation instead of causing it to form in the center)
14:29 < fenn> maybe if you coated with something extremely hydrophobic like rain-X
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14:48 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r 68e21d1d7b4a /unittests/test_geom.py: because bryan is too lazy to add a Point class so i can overload == operator
14:49 < draz|lab> I am really tired
14:50 < draz|lab> and almost free for the day
14:50 < draz|lab> I have to wash my membrane, and block the other one
14:50 < fenn> how come there's no blotting machine? i bet you could retrofit a photography developer machine
14:51 < draz|lab> no
14:51 < fenn> i mean why are people doing this by hand in 2009
14:51 < draz|lab> not easily
14:51 < fenn> bah
14:51 < draz|lab> most print developing machines are roller based
14:51 < draz|lab> you wouldn't have the constant contact needed
14:52 < draz|lab> also not enough chemicals
14:52 < fenn> well anyway it doesn't seem like an amazingly difficult challenge
14:52 < fenn> to make one from scratch
14:52 < draz|lab> they only let you use 5 chemicals in a print developer machine
14:52 < fenn> i'd be surprised if there were more than that in a blot
14:52 < draz|lab> well, lemme rephrase, it's enough chemicals but it's not able to reuse chemicals
14:53 < draz|lab> ie. you can't have it in wws, and then in blocking, then in wws, then in primary, then in wws, then in secondary, then in wws
14:53 < draz|lab> you'd need to be able to use 7 chemicals for that
14:53 < draz|lab> if using a photo print developing machine
14:54 < draz|lab> I guess you could do it in a kodachrome machine
14:54 < draz|lab> but that's lulz way too muc
14:54 < draz|lab> h
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14:56 < fenn> kanzure did you ever do anything with CSG or collision?
15:18 < draz|lab> another 2 minutes of washing
15:18 < draz|lab> er, 20 minutes
15:19 < draz|lab> and 20 minutes of blocking for the other blot
15:19 < draz|lab> I should label that other blot
15:19  * draz|lab feels way too lazy
15:19 < draz|lab> I need to remember to put it in the pharm fridge
17:03 < CIA-38> skdb: kanzure * r 3d79231d67d8 /geom/geom.py: import OCC.Precision into geom/geom.py
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17:05 < kanzure> fenn: no not yet
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17:14 < ybit> well, that was a fun prank. my bro was at my house and i was tunneled into the computer.. we were on the phone and i had the computer to play a sound clip which says to stop browsing porn, acted like i heard it over the phone and told him it's not cool to be doing that on my computer.. that it only plays when you are browsing pr0n online :)
17:19 < kanzure> how did you know the volume would be on?
17:21 < ybit> kanzure, rmembered
17:21 < ybit> plus you can check with alsa mixer
17:21 < ybit> and listen from the phone if it plays
17:21  * ybit didn't check, just listened
17:23 < ybit> i bet i could do custom messages with echo "blah" > blah.txt ; speexenc blah.txt blah.spx ; speexdec blah.wav ; mplayer blah.wav ...or something like that
17:24 -!- any72558322 [n=someone@75-120-39-184.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:25 < ybit> well.. something like that... missing a step or two before speexenc
17:27 < kanzure> there's a simpler way to do it that superkuh was using for his pdfs that I once took a look at, though I don't remember what he was piping to
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17:33  * ybit hasn't read the diy protein purification email yet
17:33 < ybit> just the headline...
17:33  * ybit needs to read
17:33  * ybit wonders what the running time is.. and if protein purification is cheaper or faster with the cdrom drive
17:37 < ybit> what's the cryeuro.eu wiki which eugen leitl speaks of?
17:43 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE7CA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:54 < kanzure> if you wanted to be an ass, you could do some inkjet printing of neural tissue cultures with axon growth proteins in certain directions to make it mimic an artificial neural network that you pre-train on a computer
17:54 < kanzure> then you can claim "look! I've converted from an artifical neural network to a biological neural network!"
17:54 < kanzure> however it's really not as interesting as it sounds
17:54 < kanzure> or how others would make it sound at least
17:56 < kanzure> what happened to 256 740 2037?
18:04 < kanzure> fenn: be sure to use reload() when doing python stuff in the future.. much easier than rebooting the interpreter every 5 seconds
18:07 < fenn> reload() nice
18:08 < fenn> how do i get actual numbers out of this graph? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Atmosphere_model.png
18:08 < fenn> presumably the horizontal gray lines mean something
18:09 < kanzure> luckily all of the gray thingies are the same size
18:09 < kanzure> sorry
18:09 < kanzure> green thingies
18:09 < fenn> specifically i want density at 40km
18:10 < kanzure> logarithm?
18:10 < fenn> yes it's a log plot, but there are only 8 lines!
18:10 < kanzure> log base 8?
18:11 < fenn> they aren't even spaced right at the top
18:11 < fenn> maybe i should just pretend there are 10
18:11 < fenn> stupid navy
18:11 < draz|lab> have any of you done gel shift assays?
18:11 < fenn> why can't they just give me a nice formula
18:12 < ybit> what's the simplest/fastest method for  protein purification? what's the cheapest? hmmm...
18:12 < fenn> tofu
18:12 < fenn> er, "curdling" i'd say
18:12 < fenn> denatures the protein in the process though
18:13 < fenn> shampoo conditioner contains a lot of soluble wheat protein so whatever they use for that i guess
18:14 < ybit> didn't we discuss su-8 several times before?
18:14 < draz|lab> fenn: the sds in shampoos makes the proteins soluble
18:14 < ybit> costs of purchasing it versus producing it yourself...
18:14 < draz|lab> fenn: all (almost all) shampoo contains sodium dodecyl sulfate, sds, or sodium laurate
18:15 < fenn> i'm talking about conditioner
18:15 < fenn> SDS is just soap
18:15 < draz|lab> sds makes proteins soluble
18:15 < draz|lab> it denatures them
18:15 < fenn> not necessarily
18:15 < draz|lab> well
18:15 < draz|lab> depends on what you do
18:15 < draz|lab> you're right, I guess
18:16 < fenn> but i meant however they get the protein out of the wheat without denaturing it
18:16 < fenn> not "how does shampoo work"
18:16 < fenn> wow yahoo answers really sucks compared to two years ago
18:17 < fenn> "it makes your hair more manageable"
18:17 < kanzure> yahoo has always sucked
18:18 < kanzure> it's like hotmail users being redirected to yahoo but taking a wrong turn at neopets and somehow ending back up at yahoo through a couple more wrong turns
18:18 < fenn> blech.. silicone polymers in some conditioners
18:18 < fenn> only the finest vegenaise for me
18:18 < fenn> i think you mean 'beanie babies'
18:19 < fenn> so neopets is like pokemon on steroids?
18:20 < kanzure> no clue what it is now,
18:20 < kanzure> but back in the day, it was just a website with an RPG hardcoded into the server
18:20 < kanzure> so you clicked around on pages to do stuff
18:21 < kanzure> in 2006 I started seeing ads on television for neopets so I have no idea what they're up to
18:21 < kanzure> my web-rpg never got ads on tv :/ so I guess someone must have liked their site
18:21 < kanzure> it's much like gaiaonline
18:21 < kanzure> also, python's super() makes no sense
18:22 < fenn> don't use super, just use the name of the class
18:22 < fenn> Foo.__init__() instead of (i dont want to even say it)
18:22 < kanzure> huh
18:22 < kanzure> well thanks
18:22 < kanzure> dumdedum why don't they say that in the documentation
18:23 < kanzure> instead of all this bullshit about how weird super is?
18:23 < fenn> er, Foo.__init__(self)
18:23 < kanzure> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=236275
18:23 < ybit> "Spiral cuff electrodes are manufactured using silicone rubber sheets in combination with platinum foils, welded to stainless steel wires."
18:23 < fenn> things to know about super: nothing, probably
18:24 < ybit> grr, the pdf reader in IE su
18:24 < ybit> cks
18:25 < kanzure> ybit: http://pdfreaders.org/
18:25 < ybit> eh?
18:25  * ybit isn't going to download stuff to this comp
18:25 < ybit> brb
18:26  * fenn wonders how ybit is going to control the tentacles supporting the electrodes
18:29 < ybit> as i was saying...
18:29 < ybit> Selective control of muscle activation with a multipolar nerve cuff electrode."
18:29 < ybit> paper to grab ^
18:30 < kanzure> wonder if the neural stem cells could be made to drip out of the nose as well
18:30 < kanzure> or not necessarily the stem cells but some sort of cell coming from the brain
18:30 < kanzure> a "stem cell fountain gushing from the nose"
18:30 < kanzure> (as opposed to using extracts of the testis)
18:31 < ybit> as well as Multichannel neural cuff electrodes with integrated multiplexer circuit
18:31 < fenn> er. sperm cells aren't stem cells
18:31 < ybit> as well as "Culturing Nerve Cells" MIT press 1991
18:31 < ybit> okay i want everything referenced here http://ybit.ath.cx/docs/papers/Fabrication%20of%20Multi-Electrode%20Array%20Devices%20for%20Electrophysiological%20Monitoring%20of%20In-Vitro%20Cell%20Tissue%20Cultures.pdf
18:37 < kanzure> haha
18:37 < draz|lab> so none of you have done gel shift assays?
18:41 < ybit> draz|lab: not yet, why do you ask?
18:44 < kanzure> to what extent is the metabolic activity of the brain constrained by the constructal law's interaction with the circulatory system in there anyway? (various routing issues)
18:53 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/docs/papers/SU-8%20a%20low-cost%20negative%20resist%20for%20MEMS.pdf or http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/unsorted/SU-8%20a%20low-cost%20negative%20resist%20for%20MEMS.pdf
18:57 < draz|lab> ybit: uhm apparently the PI at my lab is going to do one
18:57 < draz|lab> he did some really good ones as a grad student
18:57 -!- draz|lab is now known as drazak
18:57 < ybit> whowas drt?
18:57 < drazak> drt?
19:01 < ybit> i take it wasn't you
19:01 < ybit> Lee K Y, LaBianca N, Zolgharnain S, Rishton S A,
19:01 < ybit> Gelorme J D, Shaw J M and Chang T H P 1995 J. Vac.
19:01 < ybit> Sci Technol. B 13 3012.6
19:01 < ybit> need that paper as well..
19:01 < ybit> (/me keeps typing notes to himself on irc, my bad)
19:01 < drazak> nope
19:01 < drazak> we're Lee, T
19:01 < drazak> we're/the PI is
19:02 < ybit> eh?
19:02 < ybit> i know the name of your lab, just not sure why you brought it up :)
19:02 < kanzure> ybit: don't mind as much. just be sure to tell us what the reference actually is about :)
19:02 < kanzure> or why you want it or something
19:02 < kanzure> it just makes it slightly more motivating for us to go grab it
19:02 < ybit> it's the first reference from the su-8 papers i just linked to... that's all it tells me..
19:03  * ybit isn't concerned about motivating others to go grab it, but i suppose that would be nice
19:03 < kanzure> did you look at the su8 folder on adl yet?
19:03 < ybit> The resist described in this work was developed by IBM
19:03 < ybit> [1].
19:03 < kanzure> hm guess it's not there
19:04 < ybit> really? it was there at some point right?
19:04 < kanzure> ok somebody yell at me to eventually upload papers/su8/
19:04 < kanzure> no
19:04  * ybit yells at kanzure to upload su8 papers to /su8 eventually
19:06 < kanzure> heh
19:07 < ybit> Recently the HARMST
19:07 < ybit> technology (high-aspect ratio microsystems) has met a new
19:07 < ybit> limit in thickness with the UV illumination: 300 m [3].
19:07 < ybit> that's awfully thick
19:08 < ybit> that's microns if anyone didn't recieve the symbol
19:10 < ybit> this paper sucks
19:10  * fenn wishes u were the standard SI prefix
19:10 < drazak> ybit: because your thing said Lee KY, and I was kidding about it no tbing our lab
19:10 < drazak> of course, every other paper is Lee et al and Wang et al
19:10 < kanzure> what's up with that anway
19:10 < kanzure> *anyway
19:10 < kanzure> change yer name 
19:10 < drazak> exactly
19:10 < kanzure> Lee NotWang
19:11 < kanzure> NautWang
19:12 < fenn> ouch
19:12 < ybit> there's already a standard for deviating between Wangs as being female or male (nowang haswang)
19:12 < fenn> can he tie it in a bow?
19:12 < ybit> "{
19:12 < ybit> :P **
19:13 < kanzure> can he tie it in a not?
19:13 < kanzure> knot
19:13 < ybit> if he can tie it in a bow, i'm guessing the knot's not a problem
19:13 < ybit> minus blood circulation
19:14 < kanzure> what, you can't tie yours in a knot?
19:14 < ybit> kanzure: it is time to upload those su8 papers
19:14 < kanzure> wah. /me goes off to upload
19:15 < kanzure> ok uploading
19:15 < kanzure> 30 3 papers to go.
19:15 < kanzure> er, 33 papers
19:16 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/SU-8/
19:16 < kanzure> ok guess I had less in there than I remembered
19:16 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/microfluidics/ will have other interesting SU8/PDMS papers however
19:17 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/SU-8/memscyclopedia-su8.html
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19:21 < CIA-38> skdb: kanzure * r 8cc4c0eaf505 /geom/geom.py: added Point, Vector, Transform, Rotation, Translation classes to geom- generic wrappers of stuff from OpenCASCADE. todo: stackable transforms.
19:22 < kanzure> should you have to say transform1+transform2 or transform1*transform2? 
19:22 < kanzure> (under the hood the idea is to do gp_Trsf.Multiplied())
19:24  * fenn dreads
19:25 < fenn> i wouldnt bother with operator overloading since nobody's going to be using it except maybe on one line in all the code
19:25 < ybit> where's the paper on making su-8, that's what i want
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19:39 < ybit> how low cost are we talking, i keep hearing su-8 is low-cost..
19:40 < ybit> s/hearing/reading
19:43 < ybit> Even in the wizarding world, hearing voices isn't a good thing
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19:48 < ybit> http://www.rsc.org/Publishing/Journals/LC/article.asp?doi=b500519a :: Fabrication of SU-8 multilayer microstructures based on successive CMOS compatible adhesive bonding and releasing steps
19:52 < kanzure> ybit: I'd look into the polymer recipe rather than any of the stepwise lithography papers
19:53 < ybit> such as..?
19:55 < ybit> nothing on su-8 synthesis
19:58 < fenn> foo = yaml.load('!point {y: 2, x: 1, z: 3}'); foo.Coord()                                                                                      
19:58 < fenn> (1.0, 2.0, 3.0)
19:58 < fenn> good work kanzure
19:58 < fenn> i dont suppose we could make it a list too :P
19:59 < kanzure> what?
20:00 < kanzure> huh okay
20:00 < kanzure> yeah I think it should be ok to make it a list .. that just sounds like it's a FennObject issue more than anything else
20:01 < kanzure> wasn't there a way to make a tag parse a certain way based off of whatever the hell it wants to treat the input as?
20:05 < kanzure> are you actually writing any code?
20:06 < kanzure> and which files should I stay away from if I want to avoid automerge issues?
20:07 < ybit> 19:20 < kanzure> one thing on my todo list is a spin coater
20:07 < ybit> July 12
20:07 < ybit> 21 **
20:07 < ybit> didn't we discuss cheap ways of doing this before
20:07 < kanzure> yes
20:08 < kanzure> cdrom-stack-case + dc motor
20:08 < ybit> my logs are failing me
20:08 < kanzure> sometime after I said that on that evening I mentioned a link to a ridiculously simple spin coater setup
20:11 < kanzure> parameters passed to the pyldraw recursive write method for stacked transforms: current_matrix = current_matrix * obj.matrix, current_position = current_position + current_matrix * obj.position
20:13 < kanzure> not really sure how a vector can be added to a matrix
20:13 < kanzure> does that make sense? /me checks numpy
20:15 < kanzure> nope apparently not
20:15 < kanzure> so wtf?
20:16 < kanzure> as usual pyldraw implements its own matrix math routines
20:16 < kanzure> how typical
20:16 < ybit> aha, i linked to this in here...
20:16 < kanzure> ah it does something different if the other thingy is a Vector
20:16 < ybit> http://nathan.instras.com/projects/spin-coater/index.html
20:16 < kanzure> yeah
20:17 < kanzure> seems simple enough :)
20:18 < kanzure> and it returns a vector?
20:18 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/legos/geometry.py is from pyldraw, take a look
20:18 < kanzure> heh class AngleUnits
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20:49 < ybit> http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf
20:49  * ybit wants to know.. again.. what the city guidelines are on this.. does it have to be performed at a uni
20:53 < ybit> almost there... http://grants.nih.gov/grants/olaw/references/phspol.htm
20:56 < ybit> s/city/federal
20:57 < ybit> http://www.jefferson.edu/oar/manual/man10202.pdf :: U.S. Government Principles for the Utilization and Care of Vertebrate Animals Used in Testing, Research and Training
21:00 < splicer> (the animals are there for us to eat, wear and experiment on)
21:03 < ybit> todo: nag PHS Monday morning
21:03 < ybit> splicer: ?
21:05 < splicer> it was on an old album cover for a band named 'cat rapes dog'... they didn't invent it though... don't remember where they got it from.
21:06 < splicer> (it was designed to piss of animal rights people)
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21:59 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r ac8ab266d513 /unittests/test_geom.py: too many global namespaces is confusing
21:59 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r b16c35a54a80 /geom/geom.py: geom.Point now dumps+loads yaml
21:59 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r d8a369eedaee /core/yamlcrap.py: enable non-scalar yaml_reprs
21:59 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r 1f5b36bf77f1 /core/skdb.py: util for removing icky float errors from repr
21:59 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r fcc2b73ed6fb / (geom/geom.py unittests/test_geom.py): represent Point in yaml as a sequence and fix ugly floats
21:59 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r 57389b7c1350 /geom/geom.py: keep yaml from barfing on scientific notation, and implement == operator
22:01 < kanzure> gah do we really have to go through and wrap all the crappy OCC classes?
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22:14 < fenn> in Vector: __init__ = Point.__init__
22:15 < kanzure> PrimPrimativeSuperClass
22:51 < CIA-38> skdb: fenn * r 9ec4fa63e0c6 / (geom/geom.py unittests/test_geom.py): factored out common elements of Point, Vector, Direction
23:06 < fenn> train tickets cost the same as airplane tickets - no wonder amtrak is doing poorly
23:07 < fenn> well ok it's somewhat less.. $262 round trip