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01:45 < flamoot> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/08/17/1938243/IBM-Scientists-Build-Computer-Chips-From-DNA biotech lithography
01:50 < fenn> *yawn*
01:50 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/machines/replicator
01:50 < ybit> kanzure: feel free to upload underground sources of adderall and modafinil at anytime within the next few seconds :)
01:51 < fenn> the whole point is to not have to use a chip
01:52 < fenn> ybit based on my observations of kanzure i dont think adderall is necessarily an enhancer
01:52 < QuantumG> never read the slashdot summary (let alone the title) as representative of the article
01:53 < ybit> fenn: how so?
01:53 < QuantumG> it's pretty cool, they're doing DNA origami with lithographic guides
01:53 < fenn> ybit: well it just seems to make you keep doing whatever you're doing
01:53 < ybit> or was that a joke lost in teh interwebs?
01:53 < fenn> whether it's a good idea or not
01:54 < fenn> The company is researching ways in which DNA can arrange itself into patterns on the surface of a chip, and then act as a kind of scaffolding on to which millions of tiny carbon nanotubes and nanoparticles are deposited. That network of nanotubes and nanoparticles could act as the wires and transistors on future computer chips
01:54 < fenn> it's not lithography
01:55 < fenn> calling it a 'chip' is also misleading because the process is inherently 3D
01:55 < QuantumG> read the article ffs
01:55 < fenn> what article
01:56 < fenn> "A paper describing the scientists' achievements was due to be published Sunday" is so fucking specific
01:56 < QuantumG> http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nnano.2009.220.html
01:57 < fenn> why does everyone have to start talking as soon as i decide to go to bed
01:58 < fenn> well, whatever. you can get TFA yourself if you want it
01:58 < fenn> and btw i hate slashdot
01:59 < QuantumG> but yes, the fact that they take something as low tech and cool as dna origami and then go throw it at million dollar hardware and make a big deal that they get good results is pretty ironic.
02:00 < fenn> i just hope they manage to keep their patent grubbing paws off of my substrate
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--- Log opened Tue Aug 18 03:13:08 2009
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06:43 < kanzure> any idea where genehacker has been?
07:17 < kanzure> makebase.org ?
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07:37 < drazak> dunno
07:37 < drazak> we're diying some shit at the lab
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08:32 < draz|lab> kanzure: I'm all for open source, but rms is extremem
08:59 < kanzure> rms isn't open source
09:46 < ybit> heh, good point
09:46 < ybit> draz|lab: how is he 'extreme'?
09:46 < kanzure> are women supposed to be attracted to tentacle porn?
09:47 < ybit> maybe if they are women with tentacles
09:47 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/file-lists/
09:47 < ybit> does that lists underground suppliers? ;)
09:48 < kanzure> no
09:48 < kanzure> I seriously don't know how to figure out a list of underground suppliers
09:48 < kanzure> otherwise I would already have it
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09:48 < kanzure> let me repeat: I suck at infiltrating the underground world of undergrounds
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09:50 < ybit> apparently you can buy marijuana online
09:50 < ybit> i was asking around about it and several of my friends who know growers say you buy it online
09:50 < ybit> that has to be the most unsafe way of going about obtaining pot
09:50 < ybit> pot +seeds
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09:51  * ybit isn't looking to grow for the record
09:51 < ybit> dea, please don't bust down my doors today, i want to have a productive day without such nonsense
09:51 < ybit> </paranoia>
09:57 < ybit> let's see.. 
09:57 < ybit> http://superkuh.ath.cx/users/superkuh/Library/
09:57 < ybit> http://heybryan.org/books/
09:57 < ybit> http://eugen.leitl.org/
09:57 < kanzure> what about it?
09:57 < ybit> http://eugen.leitl.org/
09:57 < ybit> whoops 
09:57 < ybit> http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/
09:57 < ybit> what else am i missing?
09:58 < kanzure> oh shit I forgot about bio.cc
09:58 < kanzure> thanks, I thought it was in another folder
09:58  * kanzure should link to there instead
09:58 < ybit> just trying to figure out how to go about creating a network of rsync mirrors
09:59 < ybit> how to figure out which papers to include is the question at hand
09:59 < kanzure> I think adl should be the rsync mirror for now
09:59 < kanzure> er, maybe not actually
09:59 < kanzure> if eugen can find some high bandwidth server somewhere that would be hawt
09:59 < ybit> maybe just find 3-4 people willing to setup a mirror, and whatever they put up, you mirror
10:00 < kanzure> adl could be a mirror I guess
10:01 < ybit> well then we have 4 people willing 
10:14 < kanzure> how did you get superkuh?
10:19 < ybit> what do you mean get?
10:19 < ybit> oh, no.. he isn't willing
10:19 < ybit> i haven't asked, maybe he is
10:19 < ybit> it's you, me, ted, eugen
10:20 < kanzure> ted who?
10:20 < ybit> ted smith
10:20 < ybit> dunno, said he was game when i asked who was willing to host some stuff
10:27 < ybit> guess the first couple of sentence are confusing
10:30 < draz|lab> to eat lunch of not to eat lunch
10:31 < ybit> to not and explain why rms is extreme :)
10:38 < fenn> rms is an extreme reformist, which is not extreme enough
10:38 < fenn> but he generally has the right idea
10:38 < kanzure> people like to misunderstand him, even though his whole thing is him trying to distinguish himself from the open source movement
10:38 < fenn> there is no "open source movement"
10:39 < kanzure> osi?
10:39 < fenn> that's an organization
10:39 < kanzure> don't they promote the existence of "an open source movement"?
10:39 < fenn> i suppose
10:40 < fenn> Open Source Initiative was formed and chose the term open source, in Michael Tiemann's words, to "dump the moralizing and confrontational attitude that had been associated with 'free software' in the past and sell the idea strictly on the same pragmatic, business-case grounds that had motivated Netscape."
10:40 < fenn> which is funny because netscape had to be dragged kicking and screaming, even though they were basically bankrupt
10:41 < kanzure> wonder why rms chose 'free software' instead of something more googleable
10:41 < fenn> google didnt exist in 1980
10:42 < fenn> besides, GNU is pretty googleable
10:42 < kanzure> GNU is one particular free software project (er, umbrella)
10:42 < kanzure> "The GNU Project was launched in 1984 to develop a complete Unix-like operating system which is free software: the GNU system."
10:42 < fenn> from stallman's point of view, software isn't free unless it's GPL :P
10:43 < kanzure> huh gnu.org got a facelift
10:43 < Phreedom> fenn: not so
10:43 < fenn> Phreedom: fine, fine
10:43 < fenn> LGPL
10:43 < Phreedom> fenn: it's free if it satisfies some conditions
10:43 < Phreedom> gpl is one of tools which make it possible
10:44 < fenn> Phreedom: lawrence lessig is saying we should defend copyright because without it GPL would be unenforceable :(
10:44 < kanzure> I like how gnu.org's philosophy page explains that they limit themselves to software because software is easier to copy than a chair
10:45 < kanzure> "Free software is a matter of freedom: people should be free to use software in all the ways that are socially useful. Software differs from material objects—such as chairs, sandwiches, and gasoline—in that it can be copied and changed much more easily. These possibilities make software as useful as it is; we believe software users should be able to make use of them."
10:45 < fenn> er, s/defend/not totally abolish/
10:45 < kanzure> sandwiches have just as many recipes as software
10:48 < kanzure> why not call it "freedom software" ?
10:48 < kanzure> or "freedom ware" :p
10:49 < fenn> i guess we're stuck with "free-libre" and "free-beer"
10:49 < fenn> good luck getting americans to say a foreign word
10:50 < kanzure> huh these gnu.org pages are hard to read
10:50 < kanzure> stallman sucks at writing as much as I do
10:50 < fenn> no he is much better than you at writing
10:51 < kanzure> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
10:51 < kanzure> this page sucks
10:51 < fenn> or maybe he just works on it more
10:51 < fenn> why don't you like it?
10:51 < kanzure> he goes on and on about how different the terms are without explaining the differences
10:52 < kanzure> he draws up a few strawmen and says that the OSI isn't interested in the moral imperative of freedom
10:52 < fenn> well, they aren't, according to the quote i just pasted
10:52 < kanzure> was the source of the quote rms?
10:53 < fenn> no it was michael tiemann
10:53 < fenn> scroll up plz
10:54 < kanzure> hah sorry I did scroll up to re-read it and totally neglected to see tiemann there
10:54 < Phreedom> kanzure: well the difference is that open source cares about opening sources, while fsf cares about satisfying the criterias of free software
10:55 < Phreedom> there are differences
10:55 < Phreedom> tivoisation, patents and whatnot
10:55 < kanzure> I have never, ever heard it like that, phreedom
10:56 < kanzure> that "they care about .. opening sources"
10:56 < fenn> some unscupulous businesses have taken OSI quotes and turned it around to mean just that
10:57 < fenn> "look at us, we're cool and open source (and if you redistribute this code we'll kill you)"
10:57  * kanzure queues up the hounds for releasal
10:57 < Phreedom> BSD=open source
10:58 < Phreedom> you can close the sources and patent algos
10:58 < fenn> is BSD patented or tivoized?
10:58 < fenn> can i redistribute, modify, and use BSD for whatever purpose?
10:58 < Phreedom> fenn: you can, yes
10:59 < fenn> so why not say BSD=Free software?
10:59 < Phreedom> but it doesn't protect you from $SOME_EVIL_CORP doing nasty things
10:59 < Phreedom> like tivoisation or simply withholding sources
10:59 < Phreedom> eg I have a BSD formware in my router
10:59 < Phreedom> but I can't modify it
10:59 < fenn> you can't modify it?
10:59 < fenn> because you don't have the source
10:59 < fenn> so then it must not be "open source"
10:59 < Phreedom> it's some BSD os
11:00 < Phreedom> but it doesn't help me at all
11:00 < fenn> i don't understand.. how is it open source if you don't have the source?
11:00 < kanzure> "He did not miss the point of the Open Source movement. That movement does not say users should have freedom, only that allowing more people to look at the source code and help improve it makes for faster and better development."
11:00 < Phreedom> it's open source which suddenly becomes closed source
11:00 < Phreedom> there are no safeguards
11:01 < fenn> well then it wasn't open source in the first place
11:02 < Phreedom> fenn: you are arguing about semantics of words
11:02 < Phreedom> which is not correct
11:02 < fenn> if you don't have the source code then WTF is the point of all this word play
11:03 < Phreedom> yes, this is a word play
11:03 < Phreedom> we are talking about specific distribution/license terms
11:03 < kanzure> no we're not
11:03 < Phreedom> generally called open soruce and free software
11:03 < Phreedom> one allows tivoisation, other tries to resist it as much as possible
11:03 < kanzure> trivilozation?
11:04 < fenn> kanzure: hardware lock-in to a specific binary compiled from ostensibly open source software
11:04 < Phreedom> one ignores patents, other tries to keep patent troubles to a minimum
11:04 < Phreedom> one allows closing of the sources, other doesn't
11:04 < Phreedom> SPECIFIC terms
11:05 < Phreedom> not some general meaning of words open and source
11:05 < fenn> 'allows closing of the sources' doesn't seem very open source to me
11:05 < fenn> you might as well make it public domain
11:05 < kanzure> I think I'll stop using the word "open source"
11:05 < kanzure> but "free software" is ungoogleable
11:05 < fenn> kanzure: freedom of software, or free-libre
11:06 < Phreedom> BSD = an attempt at making stuff public domain, while still forcing people to say who created it
11:06 < Phreedom> yeah enlgish sucks in this area
11:06 < Phreedom> most other languages have different words for free and free
11:06 < kanzure> that's not the real issue, phreedom
11:06 < kanzure> there's a difference between freedom and free
11:07 < kanzure> freedom beer and free beer
11:07 < kanzure> er
11:07 < ybit> tada, english suceeds
11:07 < Phreedom> kanzure: freedom source? eh?
11:07 < ybit> 11:01 < Phreedom> most other languages have different words for free and free
11:07 < ybit> 11:01 < kanzure> there's a difference between freedom and free
11:07 < Phreedom> freedom is a noun
11:08 < fenn> ffs just say "freedom of"
11:08 < kanzure> fenn: I'm not trying to do word-play
11:08 < Phreedom> which isn't and exact translation
11:08 < kanzure> there's actually a subtle concept that isn't being conveyed
11:08 < Phreedom> and->an
11:08 < fenn> it's not word-play, it's a standard way of describing rights
11:09 < Phreedom> XXX is freedom of software... doesn't sound good either
11:09 < fenn> and has a bonus of evoking grade school brainwashing (at least in america)
11:09 < kanzure> fenn: intentional proactionary acts of freedom
11:09 < kanzure> s/of/for/
11:10 < fenn> "freedom of software movement"?
11:10 < fenn> OMG
11:10 < fenn> No results found for "freedom of software movement".
11:10 < kanzure> heh
11:17 < kanzure> "unfettered"
11:17 < kanzure> "unclusterfucked"
11:21 < fenn> any idea what this is about? 'The last straw was when the FSF started threatening open source software projects with lawsuits for the "crime" of being stretched too financially thin to reasonably comply with the onerous demands of the GNU General Public License.'
11:23 < fenn> hmm this is interesting. see Q4 Q5 and Q6 http://www.mepis.org/node/10725
11:25 < kanzure> "unencumbered redistribution"
11:28 < fenn> "pre-shaved yaks"
11:28 < kanzure> ?
11:28 < kanzure> what do you do once you get your yak shaved anyway?
11:28 < fenn> it's on russ nelson's t-shirt (president of OSI for one week)
11:28 < kanzure> do you herd them?
11:28 < fenn> kanzure: whatever you were doing before you started shaving it
11:28 < kanzure> hrm.
11:29 < kanzure> heh is freedom anything more than the unfettered, unencumbered redistribution of pre-shaved yaks?
11:30 < kanzure> i'm not asking a philosophical question
11:30 < fenn> depends if you are considering the freedom of an individual or multiple individuals
11:30 < kanzure> so an individual isn't a yak?
11:30 < kanzure> or, what?
11:30 < fenn> you know what yak shaving is right?
11:30 < kanzure> yes
11:31 < kanzure> I've been accused of yak shaving
11:31 < fenn> well, freedom doesn't particularly have anything to do with receiving pre-shaved yaks
11:31 < kanzure> doesn't it?
11:31 < fenn> it's a byproduct
11:32 < kanzure> pre-shaved yaks are a byproduct?
11:32 < fenn> yep
11:32 < fenn> there is no "wealth for all" movement as far as i can tell
11:32 < kanzure> how could that be? pre-shaved yaks don't come from wooly yaks .. they come from yaks that know when they have the wolf's fur pulled over them.
11:33 < fenn> you're confusing yaks with yak shavers
11:33 < kanzure> er, what's the term for "being fooled" that involves a wolf and fur or something?
11:33 < fenn> fleeced?
11:33 < fenn> sheep shape
11:34 < fenn> wolf of nine tails
11:34 < kanzure> pulling the sheep's wool over the eyes
11:34 < kanzure> wolf's in sheep clothing
11:34 < fenn> that's so 1800's
11:34 < kanzure> http://www.wolfcountry.net/information/myth_stories/wolfsheep.html
11:35 < fenn> yes i know. i just didn't want to say it first
11:35 < kanzure> anyway, that might not be it
11:35 < kanzure> yaks and yak shavers are not different imo
11:35 < fenn> well i suppose "all is 1" if you get down to it
11:36 < fenn> but as a practical matter, matter and energy are not equivalent
11:36 < fenn> and neither are programs and programmers
11:37 < fenn> maybe once you become an atomic programmer
11:37 < kanzure> pre-shaved yaks are a byproduct of yak shavers. ok. but the yak shavers use pre-shaved yaks (tools) to shave the yaks anyway, or else they would be sued by the big bad civilization on the horizon.
11:37 < kanzure> s/sued/shot/
11:37 < fenn> nature provides free yaks
11:38  * ybit wonders what's with all this yacking about yaks
11:39 < kanzure> my point is that 'freedom' actually just means the unencumbered redistribution of yaks (but it's most likely the pre-shaved ones will be redistributed more often)
11:39 < kanzure> but I was asking fenn whether or not that made sense
11:39 < kanzure> and he said freedom didn't have much to do with the receiving of pre-shaved yaks
11:40 < fenn> i just thought it was a funny t-shirt
11:41 < fenn> plenty of free software involves yak shaving
11:41 < fenn> in fact it's almost the definition of software development
11:41 < kanzure> er my point was to just get a better definition of 'freedom' than the vague nonsense that others tout all the time
11:42 < kanzure> "without externally imposed restraints"
11:42 < fenn> freedom is the ability to do whatever you want without fear of consequences
11:43 < kanzure> ok, "without externally imposed threats"
11:43 < fenn> sure
11:44 < fenn> there's also stuff like "freedom from suffering" or "freedom of powered flight" or whatever
11:44 < fenn> those might just be metaphors though
11:45 < kanzure> yeah a lot of "rights" that people supposedly "have" are just political wishy-washy pieces of crap
11:45 < fenn> "freedom of speech" really means "you won't be shot for saying whatever"
11:46 < kanzure> which isn't true
11:46 < fenn> er, "freedom of press" might have originally meant the same thing, but has come to mean something different
11:46 < kanzure> you *will* be shot regardless of whether or not you have a "freedom of speech"
11:46 < fenn> eh?
11:46 < kanzure> a freedom of speech doesn't stop bullets 
11:46 < fenn> i mean "we won't shoot you"
11:47 < fenn> and associated stuff like "we won't stand by and let someone shoot you, if reasonably possible"
11:48 < fenn> like when worf spared whatsisname.. then the king was like "fine i'll just get your brother to do it instead"
11:48 < fenn> i dont really know what that principle is called
11:49 < kanzure> that klingon should have just killed both worf and his brother, klingons are supposed to be vicious like that
11:49 < fenn> don't you know enterprise officers are invincible?
11:52 < fenn> interesting map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Reporters_Without_Borders_2008_Press_Freedom_Rankings_Map.PNG
11:52 < fenn> Namibia is more free than US
11:52 < kanzure> hah. "the declaration of unencumberence is where .. a person declares their unencumberence and accepts their freedom.'
11:53 < kanzure> ok back to work with me
12:02 < ybit> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4853015&Sku=TSD-1000EAVS
12:02 < ybit> bkero: know of a better deal? you seem to be up on this kind of stuff :)
12:04 < ybit> http://www.memorylabs.net/sebast721sa3.html :: that's not a bad deal: 1.5tb 32mb $120
12:05 < kanzure> 32mb cache?
12:05 < ybit> yeah
12:07 < kanzure> ybit: try this? http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/so-i-got-one-of-new-intel-ssds.html
12:11 < kanzure> http://www.intel.com/design/flash/nand/mainstream/index.htm
12:12 < kanzure> woah ridiculously expensive
12:12 < kanzure> you might as well buy a tape drive
12:15 < kanzure> "As of 2008, the highest capacity tape cartridges (Sun StorageTek T10000B, IBM TS1130) can store 1 TB of data without using compression." wtf?
12:15 < kanzure> that's weak
12:15 < kanzure> hell yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape_library
12:16 < kanzure> 10 cents per GB? wtf is this crap
12:19 < ybit> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2145406&pagenumber=1&RSort=4&csid=ITD&recordsPerPage=5&body=#ReviewStart or http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4323601&pagenumber=1&RSort=4&csid=ITD&recordsPerPage=5&body=#ReviewStart
12:20 < ybit> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4605437&Sku=D162-1020 looks pretty
12:21 < ybit> no eSATA port though
12:23 < ybit> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3748369&RSort=4&csid=ITD&body=#ReviewStart
12:24 < ybit> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4146240&RSort=4&csid=ITD&body=#ReviewStart
12:25 < ybit> and maybe lastly http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4143852&RSort=4&csid=ITD&body=#ReviewStart
12:27 < kanzure> can you make magnetic tape with polystyrene or boPET polyester, gamma ferric oxide, chromium dioxide, organic resin ?
12:27 < kanzure> hrm
12:27 < kanzure> iron oxide was used in the 1950s for half-inch magnetic tape
12:27 < kanzure> heh bits per inch
12:29 < ybit> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2005/12/linux-20051218.ars/ :: Fish: the fridnly interactive shell. 
12:29 < ybit> Fish: the friendly interactive shell
12:29 < ybit> Tired of those same old shells? Linux.Ars has an in-depth look at fish, a GPLed command-line shell for Linux and other Posix-like system. Also, Developers Corner looks at new Javascript features in Firefox 1.5.
12:29 < ybit> Last updated December 18, 2005 8:00 PM CT
12:30 < kanzure> huh there's such a thing as "magnetic ink" 
12:30 < kanzure> er, used for tapes I mean
12:30 < kanzure> not e-ink stuff
12:32 < kanzure> "This screenshot shows fish flagging a misspelled option for ls. fish also flags such errors as mistyped files, command names and mismatched parenthesis."
12:38 < fenn> i didn't like fish.. don't remember why
12:40 < fenn> hmm thats sorta lame
12:40 < fenn> shows prompt as ~/c/s/doc>
12:40 < fenn> but typing cd ~/c<tab>s<tab>doc won't actually get you there
12:41 < draz|lab> rofl
12:41 < draz|lab> bits per inch
12:43 < fenn> help launches a browser in fish? wtf
12:44 < fenn> ok that's enough of that
12:46 < bkero> ybit: Just saw your post
12:46 < bkero> ybit: You can get better ones for cheaper on newegg
12:46 < bkero> and you don't have to deal with tigerdirect :)
12:52 < ybit> fenn: /me wasn't advocating switching to fish, it just had some nice ideas to implement in your own shell (zsh ftw)
12:54 < ybit> www.pricewatch.com is nice also, just in case nobody here knew about it..
13:06 < fenn> froogle works pretty well if you aren't trying to squeeze out the last penny
13:06 < fenn> <- allergic to bullshit
13:19 < bkero> Hehe fish
13:19 < bkero> I remember using pricewatch back in middle/high school
13:19 < bkero> Nowadays I just use newegg if it's around the cheapest price
13:19 < bkero> Either that or zipzoomfly
13:25 < CIA-31> skdb: fenn * r 50d0ae1 /geom/geom.py: fix move_shape and point_shape so coordinate_arrows works
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13:47 < ybit> wtf. who, why. i will bop them on the head for this!
13:48 < ybit> guess i should bop myself on the head for closing the emacs session
13:49 -!- Phreedom [n=quassel@195.216.211.175] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
13:50 < kanzure> huh the people on the phone at nsf are actually helpful
13:51 < ybit> oh that reminds me
13:51 < kanzure> they transferred me to this guy:
13:51 < kanzure> http://www.nsf.gov/staff/staff_bio.jsp?lan=ghazelri&org=CMMI&from_org=CMMI
13:51 < ybit> need to call the phs
14:02 < kanzure> that page is somewhat worth reading btw
14:11 < kanzure> "Manufacturing Maps: A New Math Model for 3-D Tolerance Analyses in Process Planning, CMM Inspection and Statistical Process Control"
14:23 < fenn> "education had utterly destroyed his abilities to do engineering design. So he figured that, if he couldn't do design, the next best thing would be to teach it."  anyone else see the problem in this logic?
14:23 < kanzure> hah!
14:27 < fenn> note to self: order of gp_Trsf.Multiply() statements do indeed matter
14:28 < kanzure> do you run up or down the tree? re: Transform.run()
14:29 < fenn> why do you say run instead of walk?
14:30 < kanzure> walk is fine
14:30 < fenn> the algo is wrong too
14:31 < fenn> you have to multiply by each node along the way, not just the root nodes
14:31 < fenn> er leaf nodes
14:32  * fenn squints at it
14:33 -!- kardan__i is now known as kardan
14:35 < kanzure> I'm not convinced anyone gets funded via unaffiliated grants 
14:35 < fenn> i never said they did
14:36 < fenn> why get_children()?
14:37 < kanzure> recursion
14:37 < fenn> why  return_list = copy(self.children)
14:38 < fenn> the way i'd do this is apply(self.Multiply, self.walk)
14:38 < fenn> s/walk/walk()/
14:39 < fenn> s/Multiply/Multiplied/
14:40 < fenn> also i dont think it's the transform that's a tree
14:41 < fenn> the connections form a tree (actually a graph but i'm too lazy for that right now)
14:42 < kanzure> what the hell is apply()
14:43 < kanzure> the connections do not form a tree because parts are connected, but that doesn't mean that the CAD has to be rotated in a particular way
14:43 < kanzure> the connections do form a tree, but not the same one
14:43 < fenn> sorry, map() not apply()
14:44 < fenn> well a particular single transformation sure as hell isn't a tree
14:44 < kanzure> yeah it's just a node
14:44 < fenn> so why is it a tree?
14:45 < kanzure> because a transform is built on top of other transforms
14:45 < kanzure> you apply the transform separately
14:45 < kanzure> don't you?
14:45 < fenn> right now?
14:45 < kanzure> what?
14:45 < fenn> trouble parsing "don't you?"
14:45 < kanzure> oh
14:45 < kanzure> um, "because of OCC, right?"
14:46 < fenn> are you asking the right way to do things or the way it currently works?
14:46 < kanzure> I think OpenCASCADE transforms only work when you do one thing at a time
14:46 < kanzure> and thus why I made a little tree dealy
14:46 < fenn> all transforms work that way
14:48  * fenn abandons this conversation and returns to writing code
14:48 < kanzure> huh unaffiliated individuals might be able to apply for NSF equipment grants
14:48 < fenn> there's no particular reason universities should be preferred, it's just that supposedly they are cheaper than doing it on your own
14:48 < fenn> because they provide facilities and so on
15:01 < draz|lab> ok, gel is running
15:09 < kanzure> huh I'm getting a check for $0.01 from a brokerage account
15:10 < draz|lab> they really value you
15:10 < draz|lab> it's like seinfeld, 100 checks for .40$
15:11 < kanzure> what would happen to the economy if everyone wrote checks for only pennies at a time?
15:12 < kanzure> er, when the paper becomes more valuable than the numbers written on them
15:14 < ybit> hmm.. is it possible to get ahold of anesthetic agents if i'm not a doctor?..
15:16 < CIA-31> skdb: fenn * r 88ca5cd /paths.py: nothing to see here. move along, citizen.
15:16 < CIA-31> skdb: fenn * r 4cacce9 /doc/todo/TODO: typo
15:16 < CIA-31> skdb: fenn * r 4af0d74 / (5 files in 3 dirs): transform is a verb. transformation is a noun.
15:16 < ybit> it might be near impossible for a hackerspace to implant an mea in a mouse if ya aren't allowed to use the required tools
15:16 < fenn> like a mouse
15:19 < CIA-31> skdb: fenn * r 1ee4ac1 /paths.py: missed a few
15:24 < ybit> gettong this stuff isn't difficult. not sure why i forgot about co2's effects wearing off, if given in an appropriate dosage
15:29 < kanzure> fenn: many anesthetic agents traditionally come from plants
15:29 < kanzure> no clue about "modern" anesthetics however
15:31 < ybit> Avertin is made by mixing equal amounts of tribromyl ethyl alcohol and tertiary amyl alcohol, then diluted to 2.5% in water or saline. Avertin has toxic degradation products, therefore, only a freshly mixed solution should be used. The 2.5% solution must be stored at 4?C in the dark. The pH of the 2.5% solution must be above 5.
15:31 < ybit> http://labanimals.cwru.edu/Anesthesia%20and%20Analgesia%20for%20Mice.htm
15:32 < kanzure> you can get a mouse from a local breeder
15:32 < kanzure> however you should check their living arrangements before purchasing a batch of mice from whoever
15:32 < kanzure> this is usually how high school psych teachers do it apparently
15:33 < kanzure> the NSF guy called me back and explained how ridiculously screwed I was
15:33 < kanzure> he even drew me a probability distribution curve
15:33 < kanzure> something about less than a 1e-5 chance 
15:34 < kanzure> he was actually quite a friendly guy
15:34 < kanzure> but it's easy to be friendly when delivering ungood news
15:34 < fenn> what if you were affiliated with a nonprofit
15:34 < kanzure> even then
15:34 < fenn> why?
15:35 < kanzure> he recommended "the small business" sector
15:35 < fenn> hmm.
15:35 < kanzure> basically he said that unaffiliated individuals essentially means "people with three nobel prizes"
15:35 < kanzure> "and they happen to also be retired"
15:35 < kanzure> s/sector/division of NSF/
15:35 < fenn> people with three nobel prizes have honorary positions at 20 universities
15:35 < kanzure> no kidding
15:36 < kanzure> how does that work anyway?
15:36 < kanzure> fenn, I nominate you for an honorary position at the University of Asspirates
15:36 < fenn> reputation currency or something
15:36 < fenn> we asspire to surprise sexcellence
15:40 < ybit> i bet that's going to be an interesting email "hi i'm unaffiliated with a university and was interested in the legality of euthanizing mice. kthnxbye"
15:40 < ybit> s/email/voicemail
15:41 < kanzure> you should probably call other countries, to be honest
15:41 < ybit> if all else fails, put the research on a motherf'n boat
15:41 < kanzure> some agency in england :p
15:41 < ybit> "stupid americans"
15:49 < fenn> why would brick.interfaces[0] be of type "function transformed in module geom.geom"
15:49 < fenn> (transformed is the name of the function)
15:50 < fenn> huh
15:50 < kanzure> why is an interface a function?
15:50 < fenn> from geom import *; print i
15:51 < fenn> well it still doesn't explain why 'Direction' object has no attribute 'x'
15:52 < kanzure> I have no idea what you are talking about
15:52 < kanzure> can you please just tell us what you do that generates the problems?
15:52 < fenn> nein!
15:53 < kanzure> um
15:54 < CIA-31> skdb: fenn * r db133e8 /paths.py: why doesnt this work?
15:54 < kanzure> why doesn't what work
15:54 < kanzure> gah
15:55 < kanzure> contextless angry comments about code are useless
15:55 < fenn> do 'git show' to get just that commit
15:55 < kanzure> just because you modified a certain section of code doesn't mean it's the topic of your complaints
15:56 < fenn> what else would i be talking about?
15:56 < kanzure> how the hell do I know?
15:56 < kanzure> that's why I asked
15:56 < fenn> you look at the diff
15:56 < fenn> just run it plz
15:56 < fenn> then repeat the same steps by hand in bpython and note any differences
15:56 < kanzure> what same steps?
15:57 < fenn> it's probably something i should have seen by now
15:57 < kanzure> is it test_transformation()?
15:57 < fenn> yeah
15:57 < kanzure> finally
15:57 < fenn> when you run paths.py test_transformation gets called automatically
15:58 < fenn> why would i be complaining about something totally different from what i modified in the file? that doesn't make any sense
16:01 < fenn> oh btw i just discovered how to do an interactive shell with bpython
16:01 < kanzure> yeah?
16:01 < fenn> from paths import display
16:01 < kanzure> what about it?
16:01 < kanzure> are you sure it updates teh display?
16:01 < kanzure> because it's porbably just the one where you move it over the window and it freezes
16:01 < kanzure> or it steals context if you do display.start_display()
16:01 < fenn> it opens up a blue window and i can do display.DisplayShape(blah)
16:02 < kanzure> does it steal context?
16:02 < fenn> no
16:02 < fenn> it changes the window focus but meh
16:02 < kanzure> if you move a window over it, and then off of it, does it still show?
16:02 < kanzure> doesn't look like it
16:03 < kanzure> what's wrong with the ipython interactive shell?
16:03 < fenn> the window grays out but you can still add stuff to it with display.DisplayShape
16:03 < kanzure> um
16:03 < kanzure> doesn't happen with ipython
16:03 < fenn> or display.Repaint()
16:03 < fenn> i hate ipython
16:03 < kanzure> is there a way to call a method every n time-units?
16:04 < fenn> you could spawn a thread but i don't know much about that
16:04 < kanzure> in javascript there's a way
16:04 < kanzure> no, I just want to call a method every 5 seconds, or something
16:04 < fenn> while True; os.sleep(5); blah()
16:04 < kanzure> no
16:04 < fenn> no yourself
16:04 < kanzure> do you know javascript?
16:04 < fenn> no
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16:04 < fenn> i gotta go
16:05 < kanzure> http://www.w3schools.com/js/js_timing.asp
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16:15 < ybit> waiting to hear back from http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ScienceResearch/default.htm
16:16 < ybit> could take up to two days to hear back, kanzure, what were you asking the nsg guy about?
16:16 < ybit> nsf*
16:17 < kanzure> about the mention of "unaffiliated individuals" in the nsf grant docs
16:17 < ybit> getting a grant while not being affiliatd with a uni?
16:17 < kanzure> because frankly it seemeed weird
16:17 < kanzure> since nobody ever ever talks about it
16:17 < ybit> so who are those unaffiliated individuals?
16:17 < kanzure> people with three nobel prizes
16:18 < ybit> what about someone who dominates in # of responses to email lists ;)
16:18 < kanzure> ?
16:19 < ybit> you sending lots of emails, meh.
16:19 < ybit> Phreedom: what's with you using quassel?
16:19 < ybit> how dare you abandon ship of the kde efforts ;)
16:23 < ybit> i probably shouldn't tell the lady who asks where do you plan on obtaining anesthetic agents "from my local drug dealer of course, but don't anyone"
16:24 < ybit> +tell
16:25 < ybit> bobke: howdy, who are you?
16:25 < ybit> hi mason-l 
16:25 < bobke> hody, fine thnx
16:25 < bobke> did you find out i use quassel too? :)
16:26 < ybit> good, goood.. now who are you affiliated with, and if you are unaffiliated, do you have 3 nobel prizes?
16:26 < bobke> i'm unaffiliated :)
16:27 < ybit> with 3 nobel prizes?
16:27  * ybit crosses fingers
16:27 < bobke> alas
16:27 < bobke> nope
16:27 < ybit> rats and turtles
16:27 < ybit> so what is your interest and what is that you do?
16:27 < bobke> i'll take a screen of what i'm doing
16:28 < ybit> and how come i've never seen you until now, i ask myself
16:28 < ybit> it better not be anything sexually oriented toward my mum
16:28 < ybit> i wouldn't do anything to you, i'd probably just have a hard time talking to you afterward
16:29 < kanzure> ybit: are you high
16:29 < kanzure> why not apply this energy to skdb?
16:29 < bobke> haha
16:29 < kanzure> git clone http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb.git
16:29 < bobke> http://users.telenet.be/portaal/critterding2-10.png
16:29 < ybit> heh, no. but i do have some wonderful bread being digested by my stomach right now.. and some pineapple orange juice
16:29 < ybit> i am installing ncache atm
16:29 < ybit> and mostly talking
16:30 < kanzure> bobke: weird stats bar to the left
16:30 < bobke> gkrellm?
16:30 < ybit> http://sourceforge.net/projects/critterding/
16:30 < bobke> yes
16:31 < ybit> bobke: so what is this for?
16:31 < bobke> it's a toy i'm playing with
16:31 < ybit> hey it's better than sports
16:32 < bobke> the point is to evolve critters that show interesting behaviours
16:32 < ybit> do you play with the code any?
16:32 < bobke> of course, it's mine
16:33 < bobke> right now i'm trying to get the bodyparts from intersecting
16:39 < kanzure> hm display.Repaint() doesn't work
16:39 < kanzure> oh, nevermind
16:39 < kanzure> wx.CallLater() doesn't work, then.
16:40 < kanzure> ybit: honestly the mice are the last step :p
16:40 < ybit> ah, so you wrote the little program. neato. sorry, i was afk, kanzure brought down the whip and made me start working
16:40 < kanzure> ybit: get to work on your microcontroller designs
16:40 < kanzure> damn right I did
16:40 < kanzure> back to work!
16:40 < ybit> :P
16:41 < bobke> haha
16:59 < ybit> ncache 2.3 won't compile with nginx version newer then 0.7.43 it seems
16:59 < ybit> so, so sad
17:00 < kanzure> doesn't seem to do anything: http://wiki.wxpython.org/Timer
17:03 -!- draz|lab is now known as drazak
17:11 < fenn> wah. why aren't there debs for pythonOCC yet?
17:12 < kanzure> probably because we're the only two losers using it
17:14 < ybit> nginx, itself, can be used as a caching proxy
17:17 < ybit> maybe i'm jumping ahead of myself setting this up since i don't even have a method of extracting relevant text from pages of interest
17:18 < kanzure> having it cache data gives you incentive to do something with the data
17:18 < fenn> kanzure: you broke it!
17:18 < fenn> much better
17:19 < kanzure> had to crab a 70kb xmms dependency
17:19 < fenn> xmms?
17:20  * kanzure nods
17:20 < kanzure> had it on leibniz:/mnt/maxtor/software/
17:26  * ybit wonders where xpathBrowser.js is
17:27 < bobke> maybe on hitler:/seagate ?
17:27 < bobke> sry :)
17:30 < drazak> nah, that's only  if you're running windows 7
17:34 < kanzure> huh? I'm using an old version of "mv"? how is that possible
17:34 < ybit> it's highly simple to extract the data with twill
17:34 < ybit> xpathextract <dataName> <xpath>
17:34 < kanzure> twill?
17:35 < ybit> mv hasn't moved along? *comedy drums*
17:35 < kanzure> looks like it doesn't support javascript
17:36 < kanzure> http://blog.ianbicking.org/twill-in-javascript.html
17:36 < fenn> wow.. hitler != leibniz by  along shot
17:37 < ybit> yeah, i just read some dev saying it doesn't support it
17:37 < kanzure> ybit: but twill in javascript means you could just append it to the page as it loads in uzbl/webkit
17:38 < kanzure> (like in greasemonkey)
17:39 < kanzure> wtf copy doesn't have a "don't ever overwrite" option?
17:39 < kanzure> only an interactive thing? bah
17:40 < kanzure> cp -p -i * /somewhere/ | yes "no"
17:40 < kanzure> this is bogus
17:40 < fenn> agreed
17:41 < fenn> oh nm.  -n, --no-clobber: do not overwrite an existing file (overrides a previous -i option)
17:42 < kanzure> I have no "-n" option
17:42 < kanzure> what version?
17:42 < kanzure> cp (GNU coreutils) 6.10
17:43 < kanzure> "Written by Torbjorn Granlund, David MacKenzie, and Jim Meyering.
17:43 < kanzure> that's it, Torbjorn: it's gnu hunting season.
17:43 < fenn> 7.4
17:43 < kanzure> wtf wtf
17:46 < kanzure> well I guess it's kind of pointless now
17:46 < kanzure> but: http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=703
17:46 < ybit> you could try using setopt if you're using zsh
17:47 < ybit> setopt noclobber
17:47 < ybit> **
17:47 < fenn> ybit: why are you using zsh?
17:48 < kanzure> er, more direct link: http://imgbin.org/images/703.png
17:48 < kanzure> ok, have 7.4-2 now
17:49  * fenn wonders if kanzure took his medication today
17:49 < kanzure> yes, but it's long past its effective reach
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17:49 < ybit> fenn: mostly because it's pretty
17:50 < fenn> could you provide some example of how it's different from bash?
17:51 < fenn> non-trivial example
17:51 -!- Phreedom [n=quassel@195.216.211.175] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:51 < kanzure> wait wtf
17:51 < kanzure> fenn: why didn't you catch me on this one
17:51 < kanzure> piping into "yes"?
17:51 < kanzure> what the *fuck*
17:52 < fenn> i didnt think that was real code
17:52 < fenn> so apparently there is a "yes" command? that's obnoxious
17:54 < fenn> but there's no "no" command
17:54 < kanzure> affirmative
17:54 < fenn> maybe there's a "maybe" that randomly alternates between y and n
17:55 < kanzure> wonder if you can pass a null pointer to "yes"
17:56 < fenn> in bash?
17:56 < kanzure> yes
17:56  * ybit really needs some type of bell for this channel..
17:57 < fenn> ybit ybit ybit ding ding ding
17:57 < ybit> http://www.unumu.com/docs/oreilly/unix3/korn/appa_08.htm look at A.8.2. Completion and if you get a chance, run autoload -U compinit
17:57 < ybit> compinit
17:57 < kanzure> coreutils replacement: http://www.busybox.net/about.html
17:58 < fenn> you dont want to use busybox unless you have to
17:58 < ybit> also run promptinit to get a full listing of some more mods,
17:58 < kanzure> fenn: bad experiences?
17:58 < fenn> it's just not as comfy
17:58 < ybit> zsh makes it easy to extend the prompt, its like weechat for shells
17:58 < fenn> kanzure: no man pages for example
17:58 < kanzure> wtf?
17:58 < ybit> and with zsh, you can tab complete to a man page you forgot what you were manning in the first place
17:58 < fenn> busybox is designed for embedded systems and boot disks
18:03 < ybit> http://friedcpu.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/zsh-the-last-shell-youll-ever-need/ 
18:03 < fenn> $ man ba
18:03 < fenn> baby                  barchart              basename
18:03 < fenn> is that not normal bash functionality? (i have bash-completion installed everywhere)
18:04 < kanzure> works for me.
18:04 < ybit> ubuntu?
18:04 < kanzure> debian
18:05 < ybit> that's typical bash_completion
18:05 < ybit> i think most of the major cases for or against a shell aren't really worth mentioning, i think it's what you are comfortable with, the rest can be scripted
18:06 < fenn> well it basically just looks exactly the same except for some minor differences, but everyone uses bash so why change
18:06 < ybit> just like vim vs. emacs, you find solutions to your problems.. if vim doesn't have an equivalent of gnus, you use something like mutt (if you want to avoid emacs)
18:06 < kanzure> fenn: you're talking with a gentoo user..
18:06 < fenn> i assume there must be some reason it's still around besides just "what i've always used"
18:07 < fenn> they can't be serious
18:07 < fenn> The multiline command editor makes composing small scripts on the command line much easier then just having one line to edit with. 
18:07 < ybit> kanzure: soon to be exherbo
18:09 < ybit> did kanzure steal the topic from #madscientists? :)
18:09 < kanzure> 06:47 -!- Topic for #madscientists: Welcome to #madscientists, a channel for science  enthusiasts, sane and otherwise! Please keep maniacal laughter to a resonable  level. The operator is Greg Courville, a.k.a. enginuitor, reachable at  Greg_Courville@GregLabs.com ...
18:09 < fenn> enginuitor was never particularly angry
18:10 < kanzure> http://www.exherbo.org/
18:10 < kanzure> I like the "Why exherbo is not for you" section
18:10 < fenn> YAFLD
18:10 < ybit> angry/mad, it's almost a play on free and freedom
18:10 < ybit> excuse me, freedom of*
18:11 < kanzure> there's a difference
18:11 < ybit> or non-shaven yaks
18:11 < fenn> bearded yaks?
18:11 < kanzure> fenn: non-fatty acid liver disease?
18:11 -!- splicer [n=patrik@h55n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
18:11 < ybit> in the nude, free loving hippy yaks
18:11 < kanzure> no, NOT in the nude
18:11 < fenn> yet another fine linux distro
18:12 < kanzure> sarcasm?
18:12 < fenn> "There’s no guarantees that the packages we provide work properly."
18:12 < fenn> so, basically, there's absolutely no point in using this?
18:13 < ybit> if you're dumb, yeah
18:13 < kanzure> "don't use this ever" is a really good way to keep people away
18:14 < ybit> kind of smart on their part, because in the beginning it is a lot easier not to worry about the userbase
18:14 < fenn> they should have called it VaporWare
18:14 < ybit> the ones who won't contribute
18:14 < ybit> heh
18:15 < ybit> hmm..twill.js
18:15 < kanzure> cp -vprn is my new friend
18:16 < fenn> why -n?
18:17 < kanzure> no clobber
18:17 < fenn> but what if you want to clobber
18:17 < kanzure> I don't.
18:17 < fenn> hm
18:17  * kanzure gets out his clobbering hammer
18:18 < fenn> the sledge-o-matic
18:18 < ybit> don't! don't do it man, what have the naked yaks ever done to harm you
18:20 < ybit> "The latest release of twill is twill 0.9, released Thursday, December 27th, 2007;"
18:20 < ybit> now that's what i call active development
18:21 < ybit> did anyone ever get around to reading "Large-scale Simulation of Neuronal Systems"
18:21 < ybit> trying to determine if it's worth my time
18:22 < kanzure> remind me again where you mentioned it?
18:22 < ybit> i don't know if i did or if any of you did
18:22 < ybit> not sure where it came up
18:22 < kanzure> you should just install NEURON or GENESIS or pGENESIS and get on with it
18:22 < kanzure> for some reason all of these lame packages have names in all caps
18:26 < kanzure> 3sh was apparently a shell that bootstrapped itself
18:26 < kanzure> and was also an assembler, or something
18:26 < kanzure> jay freeman apparently.
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19:00 < ybit> current page: http://localhost/twill_js/test.html
19:00 < ybit> >> fv 0 age 10
19:00 < ybit> ERROR: no matching forms!
19:00 < ybit> anyone want to test for the same prob?
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19:03 < ybit> it's form 3, but even that's giving the same prob
19:03  * ybit does a strace
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19:07 < flamoot> "An oil-filled transformer exploded at the Sayano-Shushenskaya power plant in Siberia, destroying three turbines and bringing down the ceiling of the turbine hall, which then violently flooded. The dam itself did not sustain any damage. It is unclear how many people were killed, but with 12 confirmed deaths and as many as 64 still missing (all presumed dead), this is a serious incident. 
19:07 < flamoot> "damn"
19:07 < flamoot> http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/08/18/1916211/Fatal-Explosion-At-Russian-Hydroelectric-Dam
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19:14 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/images/twill_js_giving_problems.png
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19:36 < ybit> I have this web page that has JavaScript on it, and my Mech program doesn't work.
19:36 < ybit> That's because WWW::Mechanize doesn't operate on the JavaScript. It only understands the HTML parts of the page.
19:36 < kanzure> right
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19:38 < ybit> so what scraper does handle js?
19:38 < kanzure> htmlunit, but it's not a scraper
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19:42 < kanzure> ybit: why do you need javascript support?
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19:42 < kanzure> in the case of XMLHttpRequests being made, you can fake those requests (if you already know what they are)
19:44 < ybit> i dunno, i didn't think much of it.. some websites have the content hidden in js, so i just figured it made sense to have js support
19:44 < kanzure> heh youtube has an api with python examples? http://code.google.com/apis/youtube/overview.html
19:47 < ybit> need to something like grep js site1.html | wc ; repeat
19:47 < ybit> from bookmarks... just to see exactly what the worst case we may be dealing with..
19:48 < kanzure> the solution is to start making scrapers and a good scraping interface 
19:48 < ybit> or.. not and just tweak the code as the crapwraps comes in
19:48 < kanzure> and then people will start contributing it
19:51 < kanzure> pyscholar never did get a good class structure
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20:19 < fenn> i'm thinking skdb.load_package should do load_data() as well, and we can have some other function to load just the metadata
20:20 < drazak> kanzure: hey arnold
20:20 < kanzure> fenn: sounds fine
20:22 < drazak> kanzure: did you get the idea for your domain name from the show hey arnold
20:23 < fenn> does it really take >64 people to run a power plant?
20:24 < fenn> "we need them on-site so they'll be there in case anything goes wrong"
20:24 < drazak> lolol
20:26 < kanzure> someone just searched for "spherical capacitor" and somehow got to heybryan.org
20:26 < kanzure> drazak: no
20:26 < kanzure> drazak: although I did watch it at cici's pizza once
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20:27 < kanzure> "Selective aluminum passivation for targeted immobilization of single DNA polymerase molecules in zero mode waveguide nanostructures Korlach et al"
20:28 < kanzure> it's also interesting to see which papers people are searching for, or something
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20:38 < fenn> http://graphics.cursor.org/archivistan.jpg
20:42 < kanzure> is this a real place? :/
20:42 < fenn> in the grim future
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21:44 < kanzure> http://webworkerdaily.com/2009/08/18/want-to-manage-twitter-in-your-crm-system-try-curecrm/
21:44 < kanzure> emil launched
21:46 < ybit> emil?
21:47 < ybit> http://www.emilnet.org/scripts/home/publigen/content/templates/show.asp?L=EN&P=252&vticker=news,110,Training Activities&ITEMID=2 ?
22:01 < kanzure> no, emil gilliam
22:04  * ybit shrugs
22:04 < ybit> closest thing related to this channel: http://transhumanistwiki.com/wiki/Emil_Gilliam 
22:05 < ybit> http://foresight.org/
22:08 < ybit> http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/23998/?a=f :: How to Forecast Malicious Internet Attacks :: http://arxiv.org/pdf/0908.2007v1
22:26 < kanzure> ybit: he used to hang out in #sl4 in 2002