--- Day changed Fri Sep 25 2009 00:16 * ybit wasn't aware of specx dragon 00:16 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Dragon 00:20 < fenn> kind of amazing isn't it.. SpaceX will be taking over from the shuttle 00:21 < fenn> ... proving once again, computer geeks can do anything! :) 00:22 < fenn> or maybe it's just proving how bad governments are at doing anything at all 00:31 < katsmeow-afk> In June 2009, SpaceX CEO Elon Musk stated that the company plans to conduct the maiden flight in 2009 <<== did they? 00:32 < katsmeow-afk> hmm, the Falcon 9 reminds me of the missile in "First Encounter" 00:36 < fenn> yes, the first flight had a boo boo which was fixed for #2 00:36 < fenn> i recall watching that live, quite a sphincter clencher 00:38 < fenn> the spent stage 1 fairing klonked the stage 2 motor upon separation (unexpected wind shear or somesuch) which caused it to wobble, then the contro system overcorrected and went into positive feedback 00:38 < katsmeow-afk> yeowch 00:38 < katsmeow-afk> how did they fix that? 00:39 < fenn> dont remember 00:39 < katsmeow-afk> Wind Shear [ON/OFF] (off) 00:39 < fenn> heh 00:39 < fenn> oh wait nm 00:40 < fenn> that was 2008 00:41 < fenn> now i'm confuzzled 00:42 < katsmeow-afk> oh i seem to remember something, they blew the side panels which separated the stages, and the top stage slowed down while the spent stage below it didn't 00:43 < fenn> ok falcon_1 != falcon_9 00:43 < fenn> falcon_9 has 9x the same engine in falcon_1 00:43 < fenn> but they are both orbital vehicles 00:43 < katsmeow-afk> my solution was to install a couple JATO bottles to blow the two stages apart while the top stage engines lit 00:43 < fenn> they use a pneumatic cylinder 00:43 < katsmeow-afk> seriously? 00:44 < genehacker> sounds reusable 00:44 < genehacker> is it? 00:44 < fenn> yes 00:45 < katsmeow-afk> but if the same condition exists, that the top stage engine isn't lit while the lower stage overruns it, the pneumatic piston is in one place, while the stages are free to move in 3D 00:45 < genehacker> sweet 00:45 < fenn> what condition? 00:45 < fenn> separation while stage 1 is still running? 00:45 < katsmeow-afk> before stage2 lites 00:46 < fenn> you want to separate before lighting stage 2 00:46 < fenn> otherwise *BOOM* 00:46 < katsmeow-afk> i agree, but i don't think a point contact pneumatic piston will do it 00:46 < katsmeow-afk> the stage 1 can skew to one side and still overrun the stage2 00:46 < genehacker> one thing you can do with a pneumatic cylinder that's cool 00:47 < genehacker> is you can hook it up a fluidic or pneumatic control system that doesn't have any failure prone chips 00:47 < genehacker> maybe fluidic ICs but no semiconductor chips 00:47 < fenn> that sounds totally unnecessary 00:48 < fenn> heavy and unreliable 00:48 < katsmeow-afk> i think i'd have a couple or 4 *small* selfcontained engines, like JATO, fire them at separation, guarantee some distance 00:48 < katsmeow-afk> slow down stage1 00:49 < katsmeow-afk> let stage2 coast up, tho it will still slow while in the air 00:49 < genehacker> jato introduces problems 00:49 < genehacker> do you know why? 00:49 < fenn> what keeps them from blasting hot exhaust onto the bottom of stage 2? 00:49 < fenn> genehacker: they explode randomly? 00:49 < katsmeow-afk> Fenn, angles 00:49 < genehacker> no they can though 00:49 < fenn> katsmeow-afk: you need some distance for that to work 00:49 < katsmeow-afk> all rockets *can* explode randomly 00:49 < genehacker> do you know what human rated means? 00:50 < fenn> not really 00:50 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-rating_certification 00:50 < katsmeow-afk> means no bats are allowed to nest uop in the solid boosters prior to deton,, i mean, ignition 00:50 < fenn> isn't that "bat rated"? 00:50 < genehacker> it means really really really comprehensive testing 00:51 < genehacker> but the thing is a human would have to put the jato in 00:51 < fenn> "no humans allowed to nest on top of the spacecraft" 00:51 < genehacker> that might be dangerous 00:51 < fenn> oh pff' 00:51 < katsmeow-afk> what do you mean "a human would have to put the jato in" ,, isn't the rocket built by humans anyhow? 00:51 < fenn> if a technician dies they don't hold a national memorial 00:51 < genehacker> better to fill the rocket up with fuel from far away 00:51 < genehacker> yeah it is 00:51 * fenn never understood that double standard 00:51 < genehacker> here's the thing fenn 00:52 < katsmeow-afk> jato is standard equipment in short runway cargo planes 00:52 < genehacker> when you take rockets apart and put them together you have to have 3 technicians 00:52 < genehacker> to do one job 00:52 < fenn> no i don't 00:52 < genehacker> one does the job 00:52 < katsmeow-afk> not they *use* them in a often standard way, but they have them, there's mounting brackets etc on the aircraft 00:52 < genehacker> the other watches the technician doing the job to make sure they're doing it right 00:53 < genehacker> the third documents EVERYTHING 00:53 < fenn> that sounds triply stupid 00:53 < genehacker> or at least that's how NASA does it 00:53 < fenn> it should be a robot doing it in the first place 00:53 < katsmeow-afk> Gemini and Murcury had some stupid problems in the conenctions in interstage couplings, that's why they use 3 techs now 00:54 < genehacker> then that robot should be very very very very very failure proof and have pentuply redundant sensing systems and perfect code 00:54 < genehacker> that's why the shuttle uses old hardware 00:54 < fenn> no, you have a human check what the robot does 00:54 < genehacker> how do you know that human isn't slacking off? 00:55 < katsmeow-afk> magnetic ring memory landed the astronouts on the moon even 00:55 < fenn> you hang him by the balls if the rocket explodes 00:55 < genehacker> how do you it was him? 00:55 < fenn> it doesn't matter if it was him 00:55 < katsmeow-afk> what if she doesn't have balls? 00:55 < genehacker> that's what the other two techs do 00:55 < genehacker> they make sure they do the job 00:55 * fenn considers various possibilities 00:56 < genehacker> don't you know anything about NASA? 00:56 < fenn> i guess you'd have to make her hang by someone else's balls 00:57 < fenn> proving once again women are twice as inefficient as men :P 00:57 < katsmeow-afk> no, the rule to hang her by balls is inefficient 00:57 < genehacker> the thing is rockets tend to carry critical cargo 00:57 < fenn> ok but someone has to take responsibility! 00:58 < genehacker> it's much cheaper to do a bunch of inspection than have something not reach orbit 00:58 < fenn> genehacker: but what would motivate the techs to make sure they're doing the job right? 01:00 < genehacker> the other techs, the documentation, the ability to make money if they get the other techs in trouble 01:00 < genehacker> I don't know exactly how nasa does it 01:00 < genehacker> all I know is they're absolutely crazy about safety 01:01 < fenn> whole lot of good it's done 01:01 < genehacker> got us to the moon 01:01 < fenn> "our spaceships are 94% reliable!" 01:01 < katsmeow-afk> got us to the moon and cooked lotsa astronauts to! 01:02 < genehacker> such is the case with complex technology 01:02 * katsmeow-afk points out the explosion on the way tot he moon, the Cahallenger, and the 100% O2 fire 01:02 < genehacker> there will always be unanticipatable mistakes 01:02 < fenn> i love how people try to not count the exploded shuttles in reliability figures 01:02 < katsmeow-afk> they were NOT unanticipated, they were stupid 01:03 < genehacker> so were some nuclear bomb accidents 01:03 < katsmeow-afk> sure, but no trained humans volunteered to sit on the nukes while they were set off 01:03 < fenn> nuclear bomb accidents? 01:04 < genehacker> yeah nuclear bomb accidents 01:04 < fenn> example plz 01:04 < fenn> with > 1000 nuclear tests i'm sure there were some accidents 01:04 < fenn> but i've never heard about it 01:04 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_Palomares_B-52_crash 01:04 < genehacker> there was a thing on the history channel about it 01:04 < katsmeow-afk> i've not heard of a nuke that went off that wasn't intended 01:05 < fenn> also lots of people got hurt but it was through idiot generals calling the shots even though the scientists knew better.. is that an accident? 01:05 < katsmeow-afk> there's been planes carrying them, drop them, crash with them 01:05 < katsmeow-afk> and i heard a booster detonated in a silo with nukes on it, they didn't go off 01:05 < fenn> nukes only go off if you want them to 01:05 < fenn> very hard to get it to work at all 01:06 -!- davidnunez [n=davidnun@209-6-203-217.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [No route to host] 01:06 < genehacker> well when nukes fail they don't make a big nuclear explosion, the conventional explosives detonate making an effect similar to a dirty bomb 01:06 < katsmeow-afk> and i heard of a ladder being in an access hatch on a missile boat when the crane was given the go-ahead to lift eh missile ot of the tube 01:06 < genehacker> dropping the nukes has resulted in the conventional exploding 01:06 < katsmeow-afk> wrecked the ladder,, and the missile 01:06 < katsmeow-afk> and the silo 01:06 < katsmeow-afk> and a few carreers 01:07 < katsmeow-afk> been a few nuke subs sink while tied up to dock due to stupidity too 01:08 < katsmeow-afk> and several deep-sixed due to the reactor scramming and leaving the boat unpowered in a dive 01:08 < genehacker> yeah 01:08 < katsmeow-afk> one still in the Pacific, two still in the Atl that i know of 01:08 < fenn> u-235 isn't all that radioactive 01:08 < genehacker> some even had nuclear bomb torpedoes 01:09 < fenn> pu-239 is more radioactive but is it really that bad? 01:09 < fenn> you can hold it in your hand and not die 01:09 < genehacker> but not to worry, Pu-210 is insoluble in ocean water 01:09 < fenn> http://www.srs.gov/general/news/photos/button.jpg 01:09 < katsmeow-afk> i heard it said that one atom of Pu0239 inhaled *will* cause you cancer, but it's unlikely you will find an atom of the stuff 01:10 < fenn> not true 01:10 < katsmeow-afk> i didn't say in your hand 01:10 < katsmeow-afk> i said inside you where it will stay a while 01:10 < genehacker> holy cow 01:10 < genehacker> it's green 01:10 < genehacker> IT'S REALLY GREEN 01:10 < fenn> i know someone who inhaled a grain of plutonium.. not sure what isotope or even if it was a single isotope 01:10 < katsmeow-afk> KRYPONITE! 01:10 < fenn> genehacker: it's not green, it's dull silver 01:11 < katsmeow-afk> and krypton is a gas 01:11 < genehacker> well if it's just a grain, then they fish it out of you using a geiger counter 01:11 < genehacker> looks sorta green 01:11 < fenn> apparently it wasn't possible to fish it out 01:11 < katsmeow-afk> praps he coughed it upin slime 01:11 < fenn> he had it stuck in his lungs for 10 years, was in the process of suing los alamos 01:12 < genehacker> plutonium microstructures are cool 01:13 < fenn> anyway i don't think a nuclear bomb hitting the ground is all that big of a deal 01:13 < fenn> i mean you have to clean it up, but it's not a dirty bomb disaster 01:13 < fenn> an active reactor releasing into the environment is a lot worse 01:13 * katsmeow-afk is going to keep looking up anyhow,, err,, that was a slogan in the cold war 01:13 < genehacker> you have to clean it up, it's more of a political night mare 01:14 < fenn> medical equipment is probably more reactive 01:14 < fenn> s/reactive/radioactive/ 01:14 < genehacker> medical equipment also has to be human rated 01:14 < katsmeow-afk> i wonder if we can still buy americium in the hardware stores 01:14 < fenn> yep 01:14 < genehacker> yes 01:14 < katsmeow-afk> heh 01:15 < genehacker> you can use it to make a nuclear rocket if you have enough 01:15 < fenn> you can still buy tritium keychains 01:15 < fenn> you can make .. a keychain 01:15 < katsmeow-afk> i considered that briefly 01:15 < genehacker> I still want one 01:16 < katsmeow-afk> any safer than thorium? 01:16 < fenn> safe? 01:16 < fenn> alpha particles don't go through glass 01:16 < katsmeow-afk> they don't use thorium in vac tube emitters or in watch dials anymore 01:16 < fenn> you would have to crack it open and purposefully inhale it (hydrogen is lighter than air) 01:17 < katsmeow-afk> not that i have a clue what all this nuke mumbo jumbo you guys are discussing 01:18 * fenn waves to CIA-32 01:18 < katsmeow-afk> heh 01:19 < fenn> i thought it was radium on the watch dials 01:19 -!- cia [n=someone@75-120-38-228.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:19 < cia> yep, we heard you 01:19 < fenn> hello someone 01:19 -!- cia [n=someone@75-120-38-228.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:19 < katsmeow-afk> :-P 01:19 < fenn> gee i wonder who that could have been 01:19 < katsmeow-afk> 01:20 < genehacker> hey guys want to harvest plutonium from a sunken nuclear submarine? 01:20 < katsmeow-afk> i freaked out some noob doing that one day 01:20 < genehacker> it's like weapons grade 01:20 < katsmeow-afk> *want* to? not really 01:20 < fenn> what would you do with it? 01:20 < fenn> besides die of radiation sickness 01:20 < katsmeow-afk> i wold not mind having the reactor and engines/generators in working order tho 01:20 < genehacker> make a nuclear rocket, what do you think I'd do with it? 01:21 < fenn> but nuclear rockets made from plutonium kinda suck 01:21 < genehacker> why? 01:21 < fenn> not gas phase 01:21 < fenn> low exhaust velocity 01:21 < genehacker> hmm... 01:21 < fenn> it's something like 2x the performance of LOX/H2 but you get to lug around a nuclear reactor and heat exchangers too 01:21 < katsmeow-afk> the pulse bomb roctet worked on paper, and in models using firecrackers 01:22 < katsmeow-afk> easy way to put 2000tons to Mars in one stage 01:22 < fenn> orion was based on an assumption that never panned out.. the ability to make cheap hydrogen bombs without having to use a fissile starter 01:22 < genehacker> oh dang 01:22 < genehacker> don't need plutonium 01:22 < fenn> also it never would have gotten off the ground politically 01:22 < genehacker> screw the nuclear sub 01:22 < genehacker> heheheheh 01:23 < katsmeow-afk> i thought they *hadto* use fissile to get propulsion outside the atmosphere, from the ablative disk 01:23 < fenn> just say you're a poor developing nation in need of small nuclear reactors 01:23 < genehacker> anyway this one proposed nuclear rocket had so much power it would be VTOL 01:23 < genehacker> and could land on any suitably flat surface 01:23 < genehacker> like a walmart parking lot 01:23 < katsmeow-afk> and remain radioactive for 50k years? 01:23 < fenn> eh? don't all rockets do that? 01:24 < genehacker> a VTOL rocket 01:24 < genehacker> VTOL from fucking orbit 01:24 < katsmeow-afk> been done, genehacker 01:24 < katsmeow-afk> oh,, from orbit? 01:25 < genehacker> has it been done? 01:25 < genehacker> VTOL rockets that go to orbit and back? 01:25 < katsmeow-afk> not from orbit, unless you count the mon landings 01:26 < fenn> huh.. quite a lot of info here http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3c2.html 01:26 < fenn> "The trouble is the uranium shoots out the exhaust as well." 01:27 < katsmeow-afk> i hate it when that happens 01:27 < fenn> hmm 01:27 < fenn> "In some designs the reaction chamber is spun like a centrifuge. This encourages the heavier uranium to stay in the chamber instead of leaking into the exhaust. This makes for a rather spectacular failure mode if the centrifuge's bearings seize. " 01:28 < katsmeow-afk> oh shit yea 01:28 < genehacker> forgot about projecthro 01:28 < fenn> anyway i wasn't terribly impressed with nuclear thermal solid 01:29 < fenn> the lightbulb concept has a lot going for it though 01:30 < genehacker> http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/06/nuclear-dc-x-recent-nuclear-thermal.html 01:30 < genehacker> here it is 01:30 < genehacker> VTOL SSTO 01:30 < fenn> the sad thing is we don't even need heavy lift rockets, if someone would just put up a rotating tether 01:30 < genehacker> no nanotubes? 01:30 < fenn> just polyethylene 01:31 < fenn> fishing line stuff 01:31 < katsmeow-afk> what if the rocket was large enough to use magnetic containment for the fusion/fission components, while the propellant leakes out of the magnetics? 01:31 < genehacker> someone proposed that 01:31 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, i just did 01:31 < genehacker> how much polyetheylene? 01:31 < genehacker> how long how thick? 01:31 < fenn> 100km long, uh.. i forget how thick 01:31 < fenn> it's tapered 01:32 < genehacker> link? 01:32 < fenn> something like 1 ft wide by 20 micron thick ribbon 01:33 < genehacker> wait 01:33 < genehacker> 20 microns thick? 01:33 < genehacker> as thin as a garbage bag? 01:33 < fenn> hang on.. it's one of these papers 01:33 < genehacker> doesn't that go into the atmosphere 01:34 < fenn> only the very low end, which is made of a different material 01:34 < genehacker> like? 01:34 < fenn> something heat resistant.. titanium i think 01:35 < fenn> blah all these links are wrong 01:36 < fenn> so apparently they took down some papers because of ITAR 01:36 < genehacker> what's that? 01:36 < fenn> bullshit 01:37 < genehacker> dang if I could only find my solar balloon calculations 01:37 < genehacker> I have how much area a garbage bag produces 01:39 < fenn> so apparently hypersonic planes are sensitive information now 01:39 < fenn> sigh 01:40 < fenn> ok '3 braids of 3000 denier Zylon fiber' 01:40 < katsmeow-afk> i wonder if that means they actually made one work 01:40 < fenn> hah no way 01:40 < fenn> we would be able to see it 01:40 < katsmeow-afk> the military wanted them really badly, for cruise missiles 01:41 < fenn> huh? 01:41 < fenn> cruise missiles from space? 01:41 < katsmeow-afk> launch and hit anywhere on earth in 2 hrs 01:41 < fenn> er.. i dont see how that has anything to do with tethers 01:41 < katsmeow-afk> remember the Clinton cruise launch that took hours to reach some site, and everyone left while the missiles were in transit? 01:42 < genehacker> no way 01:42 < genehacker> I don't believe it 01:42 < katsmeow-afk> oh,, i thought you were replying to what i said 01:42 < genehacker> I can't believe it fenn 01:42 < fenn> well genehacker i guess this is the least sucky paper still online http://www.tethers.com/papers/MXERJPC2003Paper.pdf 01:42 < genehacker> 100 kilometers by 1 foot of polyethylene 01:42 < genehacker> is 9 373.82827 garbage bags 01:43 < genehacker> at 20 garbages bags per container at ~$2 01:43 < genehacker> is 937.382827 01:43 < fenn> weird how the numbers work out 01:43 < genehacker> $ 01:43 < fenn> tether mass is 9370 kg 01:43 < genehacker> this can't be right 01:44 < genehacker> surely it'd be cheaper 01:44 < fenn> but that number comes from 8870 kg zylon = 500 kg copper 01:44 < fenn> s/=/+/ 01:45 < genehacker> if you could find a factory willing to produce an 100 kilometer long strip of garbage bag plastic 01:45 < fenn> no, it's not the same stuff 01:45 < fenn> not all polyethylene is created equal 01:46 < genehacker> is this electrospun polyethylene 01:46 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyneema 01:46 < fenn> welp there goes the ol' browser 01:48 < genehacker> still launch cost $500 per kg 01:48 < fenn> saul griffith at it again? "The world kite altitude record for a single kite is being attempted in Australia using (11 km and 10 km long) lines of this material" 01:49 < genehacker> hehehe 01:49 < fenn> $5M is peanuts for international space infrastructure 01:49 < fenn> it cost $40M to renovate my high school 01:50 < genehacker> only $5M? 01:51 < genehacker> did it really cost $40M 01:51 < fenn> well launch cost isn't actually $500/kg is it? 01:51 < genehacker> well more importantly does it work? 01:51 < fenn> "nobody knows" 01:51 < genehacker> what about radiation? 01:51 < fenn> the experiments seemed to work as expected 01:51 < genehacker> tether degradation in space? 01:52 < fenn> not that much radiation in low earth orbit 01:52 < fenn> anyway i don't think it's a problem 01:52 < fenn> the big issue is foreign object damage 01:52 < genehacker> yeah 01:52 < genehacker> and deployment 01:52 < fenn> and simulation, oddly enough 01:52 < genehacker> we can't even get a damn sail to deploy 01:52 < fenn> the tether is long enough that you can't model it as a point mass 01:53 < fenn> also you have to take into account the differing values of gravity along its length 01:54 < genehacker> so cost of this thing is about 5 mil right? 01:54 < fenn> no, more like $50M i guess 01:54 < fenn> and then it can bootstrap itself 01:55 < genehacker> still less than the budget of some small cities 01:55 < fenn> i'm not good at estimating costs 01:56 < genehacker> http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/03/17/mccartney.mills/index.html 01:56 < genehacker> hmmm... get celebrity 01:56 < genehacker> interested in this, get celebrity to get divorced with other celebrity,??? profit! 01:57 < genehacker> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=an7Pm3hkmauw 01:57 < genehacker> scam the mormons get to space! 01:58 < fenn> you know they would probably fund it if persuaded properly 01:58 < genehacker> oh I know start a cult or something 01:59 < fenn> oops the earlier density values were wrong 02:00 < fenn> actually 8*3*3000 denier + 14*3*1000 denier = 0.012kg/m 02:00 < genehacker> what values 02:00 < genehacker> does that increase the cost? 02:01 < fenn> but that doesn't add up to 9370 kg does it 02:01 < genehacker> do the math 02:01 < fenn> 1266kg 02:01 < genehacker> I'm studying for a test at the moment 02:01 < fenn> did you take chemistry last year? 02:01 < genehacker> no 02:02 < genehacker> I took that 2 years ago 02:02 < fenn> i'm wondering if teaching quantum mechanics in introductory chemistry is normal 02:02 < genehacker> why? 02:02 < genehacker> yeah 02:02 < fenn> well it doesn't seem terribly relevant to most chemistry problems 02:03 < genehacker> why do you ask this? 02:03 < fenn> kanzure was whining about it 02:03 < genehacker> is it that energy shell stuff diagram thing? 02:03 < fenn> uh.. no 02:04 < fenn> it's what you use to generate that diagram 02:04 < fenn> and other stuff 02:04 < genehacker> the spdf stuff? 02:04 < fenn> you know what, nevermind 02:04 < genehacker> or that what's it called diagram with bonds and stuff 02:04 < fenn> did you actually pass chemistry? 02:04 < genehacker> yeah 02:05 < fenn> does "principal quantum number" sound familiar? 02:05 < genehacker> oh yeah 02:06 < genehacker> fuck even had to use that in materials 02:06 < genehacker> it's pretty useful 02:08 < fenn> one of these days i'm going to sit down and figure this stuff out 02:09 < genehacker> for what? 02:09 < fenn> so i don't have to take it on faith that "The wavefunction of the Schrödinger wave equation reduces to the three equations that when solved lead to the first three quantum numbers." 02:13 < fenn> aw man this is just awful.. wikipedia fails at math as usual 02:13 < genehacker> hmmm... to use wikipedia or not to use wikipedia 02:56 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-51-180.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:02 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-51-180.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:33 < katsmeow-afk> A team of engineers and artists working at the University of Washington's Solheim Rapid Manufacturing Laboratory has developed a way to create glass objects using a conventional 3-D printer. 03:49 < katsmeow-afk> The "spaser-based nanolasers" created in the research were spheres 44 nanometers, or billionths of a meter, in diameter - more than 1 million could fit inside a red blood cell. 03:53 < genehacker> oh shit 03:53 < genehacker> I didn't realize they were that small 03:54 < genehacker> wonder if one could make a phased array of those... 03:55 * katsmeow-afk crawls off to bed 03:55 < katsmeow-afk> google will stay up to feed you more data :-) 04:48 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:07 -!- dira [n=chatzill@de2-as1165.alshamil.net.ae] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:24 < fenn> kanzure: you're baking the surface as well as the pie 05:24 < fenn> the whole affix thing isn't really that important i guess 05:25 < fenn> the point was supposed to be that you merge contexts when you put two things together 05:25 < fenn> but you aren't even keeping track of context 05:26 < fenn> you might say "but i kept the pie together with surface!" but i'd argue that's wrong because you're not supposed to bake the surface 05:26 < fenn> you should put the pie in a new context in order to bake it, see? 05:27 < fenn> and just call it Action ffs 05:29 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-51-180.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:34 < fenn> i think i prefer 'operation' instead of 'action' 05:34 < fenn> but something has to perform that operation eventually 05:35 < fenn> the act of being performed makes it an action, i guess 06:05 < kanzure> i usually put a pie in a bowl 06:05 < kanzure> and then bake the pie in the bowl 06:05 < kanzure> guess i wasn't thinkin 06:05 < kanzure> *thinking 06:05 < fenn> but 'surface' isnt a bowl 06:06 < kanzure> that's true 06:06 < kanzure> obviously this needs some work 06:06 < fenn> it's a table which is connecte to a floor which is what the agent is standing on, providing relative positioning 06:06 < kanzure> i think that this is an easy modification 06:06 < fenn> so i don't really care what the surface is, but you can't put the whole kitchen inside the oven 06:07 < kanzure> if you can't stand the heat, don't put the kitchen in the oven? 06:07 < fenn> no, you can't, because the oven is in the kitchen and we have locally flat spacetime 06:08 < kanzure> maybe it's a möbius strip 06:08 < kanzure> we call this "topology with kanzure at 6 am" 08:11 < kanzure> http://www.sodahead.com/technology/fun-to-imagine---feynman-12-videos/blog-122709/ 08:12 < kanzure> (posted in august) 08:52 -!- mquin is now known as Guest58587 08:54 -!- Guest58587 is now known as mquin 08:56 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-43-12.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:15 < kanzure> hello mquin 09:16 < mquin> hello kanzure 09:17 < kanzure> what's up? 09:19 < mquin> not a whole lot, just drinking coffee and listening to an old podcast 09:24 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-43-12.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:30 < kanzure> http://grecipe-manager.sourceforge.net/ 09:30 < kanzure> "mealmaster files" ? haha 09:37 < kanzure> seems to be more about a gui than the actual class structure 09:38 < kanzure> but gourmet.GourmetRecipeManager.recipeManager.gourmet.reccard might have some useful classes (maybe not) 09:39 < kanzure> oh, gourmet.recipeManager 09:40 < kanzure> and if you install via the .deb on the sf download page you have to do import sys; sys.path.append('/usr/share/gourmet'); 10:18 -!- Phreedom [n=quassel@195.216.211.175] has quit ["No Ping reply in 180 seconds."] 10:21 -!- Phreedom [n=quassel@195.216.211.175] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:57 -!- superkuh [n=hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:15 -!- davidnunez [n=davidnun@209-6-203-217.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:57 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/school/ch301/2009-09-25.html 11:57 < kanzure> an internet connection is wonderful in class... 11:58 < kanzure> i have no idea why magnesium is showing up in those diagrams 12:05 < kanzure> does anyone in austin want some metal roof construction work with "john griessen"? 12:06 < kanzure> he wants to eventually hire for "some engineering circuit design and fab work" 12:08 < kanzure> john runs "ecosensory" in austin 12:32 -!- splicer [n=patrik@h107n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:34 -!- any22697338 [n=someone@75-120-4-9.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:45 < CIA-32> skdb: kanzure * r a312db3 /doc/proposals/action.py: refactoring the build method in the pie example 12:50 -!- katsmeow-afk [n=someone@75-120-38-228.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:08 -!- superkuh [n=hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:34 -!- superkuh [n=hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:45 < ybit> http://heybryan.org/school/ch301/2009-09-25.html 13:45 < ybit> what are you doing here? 13:46 < ybit> are you typing out everything the prof. says during class or recording it and then typing it out later? 13:50 < kanzure> during class. 13:51 < kanzure> for anyone interested, john is paying $10 for stacking shingles and $12/hr for roof assembly at 39th and bailey (near 38th and lamar) 13:51 < kanzure> guess genehacker isn't going to want to do that 14:06 < kanzure> is an ODE always "steady state" or is a steady state equation always an ODE? 14:35 -!- bzSmari [n=spm@194-144-23-6.du.xdsl.is] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:35 < bzSmari> This one? 14:38 < kanzure> yes 14:38 < kanzure> thanks 14:40 -!- AchiestDragon [n=me@whipy.demon.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:40 < kanzure> hey AchiestDragon 14:40 < AchiestDragon> hi 14:40 < kanzure> ybit: you may be interested in this: http://library.ncrtm.org/AT/RESNA_2007/StudentDesign/Other/Keena.html 14:40 < kanzure> it's a page-turning machine. the designs are sitting in a giant 8 inch binder in front of me 14:43 < AchiestDragon> hmmm interestingly as a solution to a problem its not an effective one ,, ie the pages you may struggle on by hand as you can sort of tell that 2 pages are stuck together , that machine would skip so you could miss a chapter 14:43 < kanzure> we were thinking of debinding books and scanning them 14:44 < kanzure> when you debind them i imagine you'd want to "fan" them. if there is a missing page, you can detect this by OCR of the page numbers (this is about the only thing that you're capable of OCRing) 14:44 < AchiestDragon> well for that application yea ,, but not to hold the book infornt of you and have it turn the pages 14:44 < AchiestDragon> exept ofr disabled use i guess 14:44 < bzSmari> kanzure, why? 14:45 < kanzure> bzSmari: what? 14:45 < AchiestDragon> smme reson a printer may occasionaly take 2 pages though if you had not fanned the paper before putting it in the tray 14:45 < kanzure> bzSmari, AchiestDragon is working on a cnc machine that i thought you might like to hear about 14:46 < bzSmari> kanzure, ah 14:46 < bzSmari> okay 14:47 < bzSmari> I'm actually working on an articulated arm with a thermoplastic extruder on it. 14:47 < AchiestDragon> ftp://adl.serveftp.org/home/achiestdragon/all machine 3d.pdf 14:47 < AchiestDragon> all one link 14:47 < bzSmari> The idea is that a few of these can cooperate. 14:48 < AchiestDragon> big file for one page though 14:48 < bzSmari> user/pass. 14:48 < kanzure> bzSmari: you have an account 14:48 < bzSmari> oh 14:48 < bzSmari> yes 14:48 < kanzure> sigh 14:48 < kanzure> :p 14:48 < AchiestDragon> 7.1mb 14:48 < kanzure> nothing seems to be in there 14:49 < kanzure> ah maybe it's taking a while to load 14:49 < bzSmari> http://www.allelectronics.com/index.php?page=item&id=SMT-117&extra=a%3A2%3A{i%3A0%3Bs%3A40%3A%2203823345592a403b2f4a37a59384e7ab28f02be1%22%3Bi%3A1%3Bs%3A0%3A%22%22%3B} 14:50 < bzSmari> Fairly good kgcm/$ ratio. 14:51 < ybit> that's a a large pdf AchiestDragon, mind telling what machine that is while this historic computer loads the file? 14:51 < AchiestDragon> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors/Stepper-Motors 14:52 < AchiestDragon> the 220Ncm ones with the 10mm shaft about hlaf way down that page are the ones i use 14:52 < AchiestDragon> smaller dia and about the same touqe 14:53 < bzSmari> AchiestDragon, nice! Thanks! 14:57 < AchiestDragon> that machine has a travel of 800mm * 400mm * 300mm (32" * 16" * 12") and should be able to machine aluminium (at about a 4mm square cutting apture) 14:58 < AchiestDragon> so nice things like fully sculptured 19" rack mount pannles could be machined from 20mm thick aluminium plate 14:59 < ybit> interesting things to do with an stm 15:00 < kanzure> ooh. http://www.kirtas.com/ 15:03 < ybit> where can i purchase (or be given freely) neural stem cells? 15:04 < kanzure> carolina probably has some cell lines growing 15:04 < AchiestDragon> what makes me laugh is on 90% of all books printed in the last 20 years are all electonicaly pre pressed so the publisher should still have basicaly a high def pdf of it they could distribute anyway 15:04 < kanzure> right 15:05 < kanzure> bzSmari: do you know if all ODEs are steady state, or if all steady state systems can be described by ODEs? which way around is it 15:11 < ybit> carolina doesn't carry stem cells :P closest thing they have is a video about it 15:11 < ybit> maybe i should contact a few professors asking if they would be willing to share 15:11 < ybit> because it's hard to cultivate them from mice 15:12 < ybit> (as opposed to just growing them) 15:13 -!- jonathan__ [n=jonathan@146.6.213.223] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:13 < kanzure> hey jonathan__. 15:14 < kanzure> feel free to rant about features that you want to see in your codebase 15:14 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 37 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 37 normal] 15:14 < jonathan__> yup 15:16 < jonathan__> one next step is creating the database format for the physical object measurements and the vectors for handling the objects. i.e. "griener-96well-plate x,y,z 96 wells" etc 15:17 < kanzure> what's the proper name of the library btw? 15:17 < jonathan__> either using the datasheet measurements or using the robot itself to measure 15:18 < jonathan__> just "Robotics" 15:18 < jonathan__> or perl Robotics 15:18 < kanzure> kinda ambiguous 15:19 < bzSmari> kanzure, no, I don't think all ODEs are steady state... 15:19 < bzSmari> but I might be wrong. 15:19 < kanzure> well i guess search.cpan.org brings it up immediately 15:19 < kanzure> huh 15:19 < bzSmari> I haven't done any ODE stuff for years. 15:20 < kanzure> jonathan__: i opt for hiding away the BS that the manufacturer has used as a protocol, and instead make the internal database and input/output file formats clean yaml 15:20 < kanzure> http://search.cpan.org/~jcline/Robotics-0.22/lib/Robotics.pm 15:21 * kanzure wonders if jonathan is aware of the emc project 15:21 < jonathan__> there's multipple yaml databases.. the internal vendor one, is for the language parsing only, not exposed to user 15:21 < kanzure> no funny business? 15:24 < jonathan__> the user application will use either "robotic english" to control, or very high level api's. not dependent on vendor concept. the low level robot commands are very scalable. the windows gui scripting language from the vendor is where they messed up and fit everything into a narrow user model. 15:25 < kanzure> can't help but think that you might be re-implementing some emc features 15:25 < kanzure> (for the more general features) 15:26 < AchiestDragon> the main problem with emc is its need for a real time kernel 15:26 < jonathan__> most software is a re-implementation of something else... 15:27 < jonathan__> perl robotics is very high level. the robot does all the real time. 15:27 < AchiestDragon> just makes it a bit impractical where the pc controling the cnc is usualy the same machine you would use for cad , and other desktop stuff , 15:27 < jonathan__> it could be that perl robotics sits on top of all that other stuff 15:28 < jonathan__> exactly, the primary goal of using perl is easy client/server protocol to the local PC 15:28 < AchiestDragon> well there is a emc related hardware and software problem that needs to be addressed 15:29 -!- any22697338 is now known as katsmeow 15:30 < jonathan__> ? 15:30 < AchiestDragon> ok so as it stands its set for stepper motor opperation ,, to make fast machines you do away with steppers and use dc motors with optical encoders 15:30 < katsmeow> of course 15:31 < AchiestDragon> theres no opensource dc motor stepper simulation drivers 15:31 < katsmeow> prolly very low duty cycle, high current, little gearing 15:31 < katsmeow> all motors are diferent 15:32 < AchiestDragon> well think say a 36v dc electric scooter motor ,, like 10A and 300W would give you a high feed rate sort of like 12" per second 15:32 < katsmeow> that would be a lot of torque 15:33 < katsmeow> i assume you mean to ramp it up to max rpm as well 15:33 < katsmeow> 300watts is nearly 1/2 hp 15:33 < AchiestDragon> ideal sort of speed for routing pcbs , but would need something faster and with a bit more power than a dremil at the end 15:34 < katsmeow> yeas, a plunge wall zip-tool 15:34 < AchiestDragon> even a 500w router would be a bit low 15:34 < katsmeow> think so? 15:34 < AchiestDragon> maybe 2 or 3hp at that feed rate min 15:34 < katsmeow> will a .035 bit take a hp? 15:35 < AchiestDragon> if the hp is in the form of speed well just 15:35 < katsmeow> hmm, ok 15:35 < AchiestDragon> but it would be close to the point where the bit would fall apart at that rpm 15:37 < katsmeow> i was going to use a 18v Ryobi zip-router thing 15:37 < katsmeow> it has a 1/4 collet, comes with a 1/8 as well 15:38 < katsmeow> and it's reversable, for easier automated bit changes,maybe 15:38 < kanzure> apparently adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb is blocked to peeps in the DOD network 15:38 < katsmeow> kanzure, do we pretend that's a bad thing? 15:39 < kanzure> we pretend it's funny :) 15:39 < katsmeow> ok :-) 15:40 < katsmeow> i picked up 10 gigabytes of 10ns or faster 32kx8 rams , which i hope to hook to avr and other small beasts, for $54 15:41 < katsmeow> i think i therefore may also be getting an addtional 3gig for free later 15:41 < bzSmari> I'm off. 15:41 < AchiestDragon> my exisiting cnc uses a 500w bosch router that has a 1/4" collet and does about 27,000 rpm 15:41 < katsmeow> that's ~12 cents / chip , i think 15:42 < AchiestDragon> it needs a 120 to 240 ipm feed rate on 20mm thick ply 15:42 < katsmeow> AchiestDragon, i was merely gonna drill holes in a not-hurry in pcb 15:42 < kanzure> hm, someone sent an email to the chem class saying "e=mc^2 is not the correct answer to the homework". i tend to concur and will be spending a link out to the timecube soon.. heh. 15:43 < katsmeow> i figured the 18vdc would be easy to make and control 15:43 < AchiestDragon> you would be supprised how slow they can be though ,, when using steppers the steppers may only be able to give you a feed rate of about 30ipm if using 1.5mm pitch threaded bar as leadscrews 15:45 < AchiestDragon> also if you have the feed rate too low then you get schorching on wood and if doing plastic you find it starts to half machine and half melt out whatever your cutting 15:45 < katsmeow> if you want speed and accuracy, use $60 HF 12inch calipers for position, and dc motors for driving the screws, and let 'er fly 15:47 < AchiestDragon> sattelite jacks have quite good qualaty screws in them £27 for a 10" and £60 for a 24" they do other sizes also 15:49 < katsmeow> hi tech support, the allthread on my reprap is getting so hot the oil is smoking, is this normal? 15:50 < AchiestDragon> well anyway i finished that drawing on wednesday this week and started to think about a smaller machine for just pcbs and platics ,, made the frame yesterday and made the gantry and carrage for it today 15:54 < kanzure> steve recommends McNerney et al "The Role of Design Complexity in Technology Improvement". 15:55 < katsmeow> aka "make everything so complicated that no one understands it untill it's obsolete" 15:55 < katsmeow> aka "tie up the engeenering staff so they never get to the competition's products" 15:56 < kanzure> engineering staff? we have a staff? 15:56 * katsmeow points to fenn and ybit 15:57 * kanzure waves to the oompaloompas 15:58 -!- bzSmari [n=spm@194-144-23-6.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:59 < CIA-32> skdb: kanzure * r 7dfe4e8 /doc/proposals/action.py: move some lines around, make it optional to put the pie crust in a pan if it may already be there 15:59 < katsmeow> if it already there, can you put it there? 16:00 < AchiestDragon> whats the project 16:00 < AchiestDragon> ? 16:00 < katsmeow> help, i feel into a quandry, and i can't get out! 16:00 < kanzure> AchiestDragon: http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb 16:00 < kanzure> katsmeow: it checks if it's already in a pan 16:01 < kanzure> and if not, it tells you to put it in a pan 16:01 < katsmeow> ah 16:01 < kanzure> i mean, in the instructions it will tell you to pan it 16:01 * katsmeow pans it 16:01 < katsmeow> ;-) 16:01 < kanzure> it might not be the most simple though.. fenn? 16:02 < AchiestDragon> ha beeten to it so who has a nc file for the mould for those lego bricks 16:02 < kanzure> we have IGES and STEP files 16:02 < kanzure> we can generate gcode if necessary i guess 16:02 * katsmeow hasto go do things irl again 16:02 < kanzure> anyway, i need to hop a bus 16:02 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk 16:02 < AchiestDragon> yea mastercam should do that 16:02 < katsmeow-afk> 16:02 < ybit> http://dailydiy.com/2008/04/10/cheap-homemade-mri-does-a-better-job-imaging-lungs-than-the-real-thing/ 16:03 < ybit> $100k, eek 16:06 < jonathan__> medical equipment costs so much basically due to liability issues 16:06 < jonathan__> if lawsuits were outlawed against the equipment then the price could drop dramatically 16:07 < AchiestDragon> yea , to the point that 90% of all semiconductors come with a waver of responcablilatiy if used in medical kit 16:07 < ybit> http://www.octiva.net/projects/ppm/ 16:07 < ybit> "EC/TDS/PPM Meter On Limited Budget" 16:12 -!- dira [n=chatzill@de2-as1165.alshamil.net.ae] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]"] 17:04 < kanzure> ybit: jata claims to have the hots for tcTDS or something 17:41 -!- dira [n=chatzill@de2-as1165.alshamil.net.ae] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:32 -!- any68886371 [n=someone@75-121-60-241.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:38 -!- katsmeow-afk [n=someone@75-120-4-9.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:42 -!- any14619549 [n=someone@75.121.63.50] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:51 -!- any14619549 [n=someone@75.121.63.50] has quit ["Silent gratitude isn't very much use to anyone."] 18:52 -!- any92111444 [n=someone@75-121-63-50.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:59 -!- any68886371 [n=someone@75-121-60-241.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:04 -!- dira [n=chatzill@de2-as1165.alshamil.net.ae] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]"] 19:18 < ybit> fenn, you: "Injection molded plastic lens molds are made on diamond turning lathes, 19:18 < ybit> typically out of aluminum. You might as well just forget about it." 19:18 < ybit> i don't understand why you can't do this yourself 19:19 < ybit> plenty of people making their own flycutters 19:24 < ybit> not bad: http://www.5bears.com/index.htm 19:24 < ybit> the cnc is what i'm looking @ 19:24 < ybit> er, cnc mill 19:25 < ybit> wouldn't mind if this guy gave me his machine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPo0PJiEqHQ 19:26 < ybit> nothing new, i know, but i still want it 19:31 < jonathan__> OMFG 19:32 < jonathan__> one of the postdocs from another lab is following my project now, that is based on work in his own lab. muahahaha 19:32 < any92111444> http://www.5bears.com/index.htm ? 19:32 < any92111444> the domain is 404 here 19:34 -!- davidnunez [n=davidnun@209-6-203-217.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:38 < ybit> any it's yet another cnc conversion of a miller 19:38 < ybit> any92111444 19:38 < ybit> http://www.5bears.com/cnc.htm 19:40 < ybit> and cad files for their turbojet project which i can't find and am too tired to even bother 19:41 -!- jonathan__ [n=jonathan@146.6.213.223] has quit [] 19:41 < ybit> http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/06/21/home-made-cnc-machine/ :: the table seems a bit small 19:41 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:42 < wrldpc2> Anissimov is being stingy in granting press access 19:43 < wrldpc2> to SingSum09 ... not that I care, but I really would rather like to see Goertzel, and Aubrey, and hear what Wolfram thinks. 19:44 < ybit> http://cq.cx/pcb-router.pl :: pcb router with cad files 19:44 < ybit> or not 19:45 < ybit> schematics, board layout, and code though: http://cq.cx/dl/pcb-router.zip 19:46 < kanzure> wrldpc2: anissimov is like that believe it or not 19:46 < kanzure> i still think he's a scater in disguise (after having met him) 19:47 < wrldpc2> scater? 19:47 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-57-205.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:52 < ybit> wrldpc2: you know, ice skating, it's obvious he does this on his spare time 19:52 < wrldpc2> got it 19:52 < wrldpc2> dilettante 19:53 < wrldpc2> oh well 19:53 < wrldpc2> i'm sure aubrey will be at some local pub, networking. maybe i'll catch him there. 19:55 < genehacker> yeah I've heard he frequents those a lot 19:56 < wrldpc2> from what i gathered of last year's summit, it was basically a dog and pony show for the investors 19:56 < wrldpc2> emtech09 was like that 19:58 < ybit> is it really necessary for me to purchase rats to harvest their neural cells? surely _some_ uni is willing to share 19:59 < wrldpc2> Robert Langer was great to hear from but Ben Veerwaayen is a total douchebag with no formal science training whatsoever. 19:59 < wrldpc2> If you want a laugh: https://www.technologyreview.com/emtech/videos/login.aspx?ETCEvent=95&y=2009 19:59 < wrldpc2> you might need a techreview acct 20:00 < ybit> t works without one 20:08 < xp_prg> why is this funny wlrdpc2? 20:17 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-57-205.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:23 < wrldpc2> because he demonstrates no functional knowledge of his product from an engineer's perspective and provides very little insight in to where he thinks technology is headed .. 20:23 < wrldpc2> contrast him with the Michael Idelchik VP from GE .. 20:23 < wrldpc2> who has an actual background in engineering .. 20:25 < xp_prg> yes I am seeing that 20:25 < xp_prg> he seems worthless 20:28 < ybit> if anyone can, i don't know why konq failed to rename the sdarticle-#.pdf files in my adl home dir, but feel free to change the names and upload to papers/unsorted like i just did through the konqueror interface (though nothing was changed which is odd) kanzure, fenn, AchiestDragon 20:40 -!- any92111444 is now known as katsmeow 20:45 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk 20:54 -!- xp_prg [n=xp_prg3@99.2.31.217] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:05 -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: nsh, Overand, AchiestDragon, drazak, mason-l, ybit, goonie, ve 21:06 -!- Netsplit over, joins: AchiestDragon, ybit, ve, mason-l, nsh, drazak, Overand, goonie 21:06 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@128.62.63.12] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:11 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:11 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:15 < genehacker> kanzure do you know how I can use the soldering labs around here? 21:18 < genehacker> I need to do some soldering 21:33 -!- bzSmari [n=spm@194-144-23-6.du.xdsl.is] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:52 < genehacker> and desoldering 21:54 < genehacker> also I require some easy graph software, I'm gonna make a reaction tree for DNA synthesis 22:09 -!- bzSmari [n=spm@194-144-23-6.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:15 -!- Phreedom [n=quassel@195.216.211.175] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:16 -!- Phreedom [n=quassel@195.216.211.175] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:28 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 22:34 -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@ool-ad03fe34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:50 -!- jonathan__ [n=jonathan@66.90.167.249] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:52 < jonathan__> microcontroller syringe pump / peristaltic pump with 8 selectable inputs controlled via valves. communication protocol is thru short serial commands at 9600bps. http://www.flowinjection.com/Brochures/microsia.aspx 23:55 < jonathan__> costs several thousand $ 23:57 < drazak> yeah 23:57 < drazak> there's something like that in the next lab over