--- Day changed Sat Sep 26 2009
00:17 < genehacker> jonathan__ do you know anyting about the soldering labs here
00:17 < jonathan__> no
00:17 < genehacker> dang
00:21 < drazak> does kanure know?
00:21 < drazak> you could, you know, buy a soldering iron and some solder
00:21 < katsmeow-afk> too avant garde
00:25 < drazak> I need to figure out if they'll let me use the ceramics lab at UB
00:38 < genehacker> why?
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00:38 < genehacker> what do you need to do?
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09:25 < kanzure> hey jonathan__ 
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09:25 < jonathan__> yo
09:26 < jonathan__> sudo make me a breakfast burrito
09:28 < kanzure> skdb currently only does apple pie
09:29 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 33 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 33 normal]
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09:45 < jonathan__> sudo get in the kitchen and bake me a pie!
10:09 < kanzure> so uh, for some reason, people who like django seem to re-implement the same stuff over and over again
10:09 < kanzure> "yet another twitter module for django!" and "yet another foaf module for django!"
10:09 < kanzure> i thought the point of this was to /stop/ repeating work
10:20 < bzSmari> kanzure, the problem is that people who develop Django stuff are way too lazy at distributing their apps.
10:23 < kanzure> i think they get it all wrong
10:23 < kanzure> the point shouldn't be to write yet-another-twitter-clone,
10:23 < kanzure> it should be to have a framework for dealing with whatever networks each individual user is from
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11:08 < nykodemus> So I'll be in NYC this time next week. Anyone have any suggestions on where to go/what to do? #maker wise, anyway... like nycresistor and such
11:09 < ybit> there are labs specifically for soldering? strange.
11:11 < ybit> nykodemus: wrldpc2 might be able to help you out, i'm not sure who else though. you could try messaging one of the dorkbot or nycresistor people
11:13 < ybit> nykodemus: is nycresistor having some type of meetup?
11:13 < nykodemus> ybit: not that I'm aware of
11:13 < ybit> nykodemus: you are just going to nyc for the fun of it then?
11:13 < nykodemus> ybit: and it doesn't look like their space is "open" all the time like ours
11:13 < nykodemus> ybit: meeting with some old friends
11:28 < kanzure> so i was reading through this: http://strategoxt.org/Transform/DecompilationResources
11:28 < kanzure>     *  "Using a Decompiler for Real World Source Recovery", Mike Van Emmerik and Trent Waddington. In Proceedings of the Working Conference on Reverse Engineering, IEEE-CS Press, 2004. An extended version is available here.
11:28 < kanzure> trent waddington is QuantumG iirc
11:30 < kanzure> huh yep that's him
11:30 < kanzure> http://quantumg.blogspot.com/
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12:41 < kanzure> hm i wonder why solidworks has a gp_Pnt class
12:43 < kanzure> CATgp_Pnt2d, CATgp_Pnt, CATgp_Pnt, CATgp_XYZ, CATgp_Ax1, CATgp_Ax2d, CATgp_Dir, CATTColgp_Array1OfPnt2d, CATTColgp_HArray1OfPnt2d, Handle_CATTColgp_HArray1OfPnt2d, CATTColgp_HArray1OfPnt2d, etc. etc.
12:44 < kanzure> gee too bad the opencascade license isn't standard, else they might have a case here..
12:44 < kanzure> http://www.opencascade.org/getocc/license/
12:52 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/opencascade/solidworks_source_structure.txt (5 MB)
13:50 < ybit> http://www.sciencechatforum.com/viewforum.php?f=112&sid=2e505a8f02891bd4fd9b1ca2930d96f5
13:50 < ybit> one thing i don't like is that google typically doesn't give decent results from forums
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14:00 < ybit> hi ve
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14:52 < kanzure> hello jonathan__.
14:52 < jonathan__> finally made it on campus
14:52 < jonathan__> everyone decided to wear orange for some reason...
14:53 < kanzure> it's required uniform
14:55 < jonathan__> i'm wearing green.  which may be the opposite
14:57 < CIA-32> skdb: kanzure * r e6ce40f /doc/proposals/action.py: make it optional to build an oven if you can allocate an oven
14:57 < kanzure> might be getting too complicated
14:57 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/proposals/action.py
14:58 < kanzure> in particular Pie's build method
14:59 < kanzure> oops, affixed_pan is wrong (it doesn't point to some_pan and instead points to sterilized_pan)
14:59 < genehacker> jonathan__ don't ever wear non-orange on non-gameday a drunken mob could attack you
14:59 < genehacker> though today's chances of a drunken mob are low
14:59 < jonathan__> i will not yield!  freeeeeeeddooooooommmmmmm!
15:00 < genehacker> things that don't yield snap
15:01 < CIA-32> skdb: kanzure * r acd7839 /doc/proposals/action.py: minor bug fix: some_pan is not the same thing as affixed_pan
15:02 < jonathan__> and now for today's weather update, we have cumulus clouds forming off the coast of corpus today and in downtown austin, a drunken mob of orange shirts, so bring your umbrellas when you head outside today.  and that's all for the weather, back to you jamie
15:03 < genehacker> oh no
15:03 < jonathan__> everybody knows the cool kids ditch the game
15:03 < genehacker> YEAH!
15:06 < kanzure> are apple pies more complicated than i thought? or did i just make it overly complex
15:06 < kanzure> you can basically see my steps by looking at the comments rather than the code
15:12 < ybit> just serve apple, minus the pie, and be done with it
15:13 < kanzure> nono, i think this is a good demo/example to hash out
15:13 < genehacker> to make an apple pie from scratch the first step is inventing the universe
15:13 < ybit> the windcar named 'nemisis' from the 'zerocarbonista' guy is kind of neat
15:13 < kanzure> not if you can allocate a universe first, genehacker
15:13 < kanzure> we luckily happen to be in one
15:13 < genehacker> ok
15:13 < genehacker> anyway what type of apple pie?
15:13  * kanzure snipes the philosophers lurking in the channel
15:14 < genehacker> generic or fancy?
15:14 < kanzure> well right now just apple pie, but i guess i can add in an option to add cinammon o something
15:14 < genehacker> I'm assuming generic
15:14 < jonathan__> "anyway what type of apple pie?"   yo mama
15:14 < kanzure> sudo make me yo mamma's apple pie?
15:14 < ybit> to build a universe or not, that is the question. /me ducks
15:14 < jonathan__> exactly
15:14 < jonathan__> make:  yo mama not found
15:14 < kanzure> i don't think yo mamma is going to be too happy about that
15:14 < genehacker> that apple pie universe thing was from carl sagan
15:15 < kanzure> really?
15:15 < genehacker> yeah
15:15 < kanzure> huh. "If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe."
15:15 < kanzure> alright. that's kinda cool.
15:16 < drazak> kanzure: do you have a copy of the Art of Electronics?
15:16 < kanzure> yes
15:16 < drazak> in .pdf?
15:17 < kanzure> .djvu
15:18 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car#Claims_of_functioning_water-fuelled_cars
15:18 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/Electronics/AoE.djvu
15:18 < drazak> what's .djvu?
15:18 < kanzure> bullshit
15:18 < drazak> and how do I read it in linux
15:18 < kanzure> it's like pdf's less hot cousin
15:18 < kanzure> djviewer or something
15:20 < genehacker> it is bullshit
15:20 < genehacker> it's an obscure ebook format yay!
15:21 < ybit> wow, everyone one of the companies or guys went down at some point
15:21 < genehacker> that's not surprising
15:21  * ybit never bothered looking at water powered vehicles before, but it's kind of funny to read
15:22 < drazak> kanzure: got any good books on opamps?
15:22 < kanzure> wtf how did michael jackson get into my trance stream >:(
15:23 < drazak> rofl
15:23 < ybit> their claims break down when @ the part of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen
15:23 < kanzure> drazak: nothing specifically devoted to the opamp
15:23 < ybit> kanzure: discovery has a remix of a m.jackson song that's pretty sweet
15:24 < ybit> how do you carry out electrolysis of water without some form of energy, hrm? impossible maybe?
15:25 < ybit> question really doesn't even need to be asked 
15:25 < ybit> "impossible maybe?" was sarcasm ftr
15:28 < genehacker> I need to check out your music kanzure
15:33 < genehacker> meh
15:36 < ybit> hehe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Nucleon The Ford Nucleon was a nuclear-powered concept car developed by Ford Motor Company in 1958. The design did not include an internal-combustion engine, rather, the vehicle was to be powered by a small nuclear reactor in the rear of the vehicle.
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15:43 < jonathan__> I found one of those in warehouse 23
15:47 < genehacker> sigh if we only had the giant nuclear powered car houses of the 50s retrofuture
15:50 < jonathan__> go play fallout to see what happened to THAT future
15:52 < genehacker> nuclear powered cars that are so big they are houses, that never need refueling, just oiling
15:55 < genehacker> kanzure did you guys in the ADL ever reverse engineer a water gun?
15:56 < kanzure> fenn drew some boxes-and-arrows of a water gun
15:56 < genehacker> do you have the gun and most importantly do you still need it?
15:57 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/gs2-squirtgun-screenshot.png
15:57 < genehacker> that is fine too
15:57 < kanzure> it's lab property afaik
15:59 < genehacker> ok
16:02 < genehacker> just needed what you sent me
16:02 < fenn> i don't think anyone is going to use it
16:02 < fenn> i mean you can have the pieces if you want them
16:03 < kanzure> genehacker: oh then you probably want the gxml file (not the png screenshot) http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/squirtgun.gs2.gxml
16:03 < fenn> i accidentally broke the high pressure hose manifold
16:03 < kanzure> you can open this file with "graphsynth" http://adl.serveftp.org/gs2/GS2.zip
16:03 < kanzure> (windows only)
16:04 < kanzure> unless you are a mono ninja
16:05 < ybit> who is using the computer from the squitgun image? hehe, notice the firefox windowbar title "How to Take a Scree..." 
16:05 < ybit> it's as simple as 'print screen' :)
16:07 < fenn> well excuse me for not knowing how to use windows, sheesh
16:07 < fenn> i'm pretty sure i tried 'print screen' and it did nothing
16:07 < kanzure> it does do nothing
16:07 < kanzure> you have to go paste somewhere
16:08 < genehacker> meh that's replaceable
16:08 < ybit> graphsynth run on linux?
16:08 < genehacker> I'm thinking of making my own watergun for the ASME assassin contest
16:08 < ybit> nope
16:08 < kanzure> ybit: gs1.9 runs ok. gs2's gui doesn't run on linux, but everything else does.
16:08 < kanzure> but you can only run it under .NET, so it's useless
16:08 < ybit> oh :\
16:09 < kanzure> for this reason i began rewriting graphsynth in python http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/thirdparty/graphsynth.py
16:09 < genehacker> can graph synth be used to make just graphs?
16:09 < genehacker> like reaction diagrams?
16:09 < kanzure> yes but why would you
16:10 < kanzure> i mean, there are other tools for doing chemical reaction graphs
16:10 < genehacker> because I need to organize the reactions I have for making stuff for the dna synthesizer
16:10 < kanzure> please write down the reactions in SMILES/SMIRKS/FROWNS. you'd be my hero.
16:11 < genehacker> I don't know what you mean but ok sure
16:11 < kanzure> they are notations for writing down a chemical reaction 
16:12 < kanzure> so you do something like HO2->H2O (except this isn't valid SMILES, i'd have to check wikipedia)
16:12 < genehacker> sure
16:12 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMILES
16:12 < genehacker> but I was going to organize it in graph form so I can show the need for catalysts
16:12 < kanzure> ok sorry, SMIRKS is the one that is like SMILES except includes reaction notation
16:13 < genehacker> step one: combine ammonia and isopropyl alcohol in presence of Ni catalyst
16:13 < kanzure> todo: http://www.daylight.com/dayhtml/doc/theory/theory.smirks.html implement smirks reaction grammar with graphsynth.
16:13 < genehacker> step two seperate out diisopropylamine
16:17 < drazak> man this is some smack shit
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16:19 < ybit> grr, took 57m 48s to download AoE.djvu and djvu refuses to open. what exactly is that file anyway?
16:20 < ybit> djview fefuses to open the file*
16:20 < fenn> art of electronics?
16:22 < ybit> oh, i've got that in pdf format
16:22 < ybit> chmod -R 755
16:23 < ybit> hrm, kanzure that was meant for you
16:23 < fenn> was i right?
16:23 < ybit> fenn: i don't know.
16:24 < ybit> fenn: you are, it was kanzure's response to drazak's request for it
16:26 < fenn> i finally found something better than debian http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/Site/Home.html
16:26 < fenn> it even has a theme song!
16:27 < ybit> tux needs a beard and a hard-on and that would be a great tribute to linux users :P
16:28 < ybit> and maybe he needs to be peering from a peephole
16:32 < drazak> ybit: you have it in pdf?
16:32 < drazak> ybit: gimme it
16:35 < ybit> yeah, one sec...
16:36 < ybit> more like a couple mins, firefox is restarting after another xmonad crash in this distro
16:36 < drazak> hate that
16:36 < drazak> I hate vuze for my torrents
16:36 < drazak> it wants to reboot every 10 minutes with updates
16:40 < genehacker> fenn you've never heard of hannahmontana linux?
16:50 < ybit> drazak: pm
16:50 < ybit> when you grab the file, let me know, server will go offline then
16:56 < kanzure> there's also christianlinux or something
16:56 < drazak> jewbuntu
16:57 < kanzure> i think HML is just more evidence that kde 4.2 sucks
16:57 < kanzure> no i haven't actually used 4.2 yet
17:03 < drazak> ybit: done
17:11 < drazak> ybit: where's page 14-60?
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17:25 < ybit> dunno, it was from some torrent
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17:50 < ybit> http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps/chap3/3-35m.html
17:50 < ybit> so much for the wind turbine idea
17:51 < ybit> katsmeow-afk on the other hand, you might be able to do something with the wind
17:51 < ybit> ..if you planned to stay in the states for very long :P
18:07 < jonathan__> command set for the FIALab Microsia 8 valve syringe pump:  
18:07 < jonathan__> http://jcline.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/jcline/laboratory-robots-tecan/Robotics-0.23beta/lib/Robotics/Fialab/Microsia.pm?revision=83&view=markup
18:08 < genehacker> ybit get the wind up higher
18:08 < genehacker> try acouple kilometers
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18:16 < kanzure> print "hello %s" % (name)
18:21 < kanzure> http://www.singularitysummit.com/program
18:32 < kanzure> http://www.landley.net/
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18:50 < ybit> The tallest wind turbines in the U.S. have been installed in Texas ? the Vestas V90 turbines are 345 feet high, and are rated at 3 megawatts each.
18:50 < ybit> genehacker: a couple of km you say? :P
18:50 < katsmeow-afk> yea, way to do distributed wind energy!
18:51 < katsmeow-afk> what's the payback timeframe on it?
19:18 < kanzure> can anyone find the personal website of "tan yee siang" ?
19:20 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.macropages.com/exiang/profile
19:21 < kanzure> http://lazymonkey.info/ aha, another coauthor of the ODECAL system
19:22 < kanzure> oops nevermind
19:36 < genehacker> the energy payback is surprising
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20:49 < ybit> if anyone happens to have "the step by step guide to screen process printing" or a similar resource, i'm sure i'll need it here soon
21:02  * ybit still wants the basic book for my ebook collection: Fundamentals of Microfabrication: The Science of Miniaturization
21:03 < katsmeow-afk> just found my reciept for a 540 megabyte harddrive, for $185 , which was a great deal at the time, because the 528 meg barrier had been broken
21:03 < kanzure> didn't i give you that, ybit?
21:04 < ybit> kanzure: i don't recall, if you have it, go right ahead and linky again plz :)
21:04 < ybit> and if you happen to have handbook of microlithography micromachining and microfabrication.. i'm game
21:05 < kanzure> i'm not going to be able to find this one in my collection because it had an obscure file name
21:05 < ybit> the first or second?
21:05 < katsmeow-afk> i also ran across a hardcopy of Newscientist 1994 on self replicating mirco machinery
21:05 < kanzure> fundamentals of microfabrication
21:06 < ybit> grep fundamentals | grep microfabrication > largelist.txt && pastebinit largelist.txt
21:06 < ybit> i'll search through it myself
21:08 < genehacker> self reping micromachines?
21:08 < genehacker> where?
21:11  * katsmeow-afk points up to the line she just said
21:12 < genehacker> what month?
21:12 < katsmeow-afk> hold on, it's in the otehr room........
21:12 < genehacker> was it nanotech stuff or something else?
21:16 < ybit> kanzure: did you ever get http://ybit.ath.cx/books/Freitas%20R.A.,%20Merkle%20R.C.%20Kinematic%20Self-Replicating%20Machines.pdf
21:16 < ybit> not sure if i linked to the book before
21:16 < kanzure> no, but it's on the web in non-pdf form which is preferable
21:16 < kanzure> also are you sure merkle was an author on KSRM?
21:16 < katsmeow-afk> Science News ; Nov 26 1994 Vol 146 No 22 Pages 353-368 "Artificial Self-Replicators"
21:16  * ybit wants
21:17 < kanzure> ybit: http://rfreitas.com/ enjoy.
21:17 < katsmeow-afk> the name of the article itself : "Darwin in Vitro"
21:18 < katsmeow-afk> The quest to make synthetic self-replicating molecules
21:18 < katsmeow-afk> By Richard Lipkin
21:19  * katsmeow-afk has been oddly interested in this stuff for decades
21:19 < ybit> oh, i meant to direct the pdf to katsmeow-afk since she mentioned the self replicating stuff, my bad
21:20 < ybit> anywho, kanzure did point to the book which is in htm format and that makes me happy
21:20  * katsmeow-afk slaps ybit with the largest feather she has
21:20 < kanzure> ybit: now that i look, this might be it: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Microfabrication-and-nanomanufacturing-Pulsed%20water%20drop%20micromachining.pdf
21:21 < kanzure> not quite "fundamentals of microfabrication". also, it's 26 MB
21:21 < kanzure> (pulsed water drop micromachining is just a subchapter)
21:26 < ybit> i already have microfabrication and nanomanufacturing, the book
21:26 < ybit> it's alright, was wanting these other books though. /me is reminded of how important a book scanner is again
21:27 < kanzure> a book scanner is nice, but more important is a zero-day distribution team. i have quite a lot that i'd be willing to distribute, but none of the "networks that matter" seem to care
21:30 < fenn> tried flakk.org #bw ?
21:30 < fenn> or was it #bookwarez
21:31 < fenn> they are kinda weaksauce actually.. just server bots
21:31 < kanzure> #bookwarez died before i was born or something
21:31 < fenn> i expect you want someone willing to seed torrents
21:32 < kanzure> i don't mind if there's a pre-torrent-seeding stage
21:33 < kanzure> hm strrchr is not defined in strings.h?
21:34 < kanzure> oh. string.h
21:36 < kanzure> hah. ./configure --with-cal3d=/usr/ 
21:36 < ybit> what about the diyh+ mirrors? that should work
21:36 < kanzure> what a terrible "--with-" arg
21:37 < kanzure> ybit: sorry but our transhuman network is totally lame
21:37 < kanzure> we don't even have any transhumans
21:37 < ybit> bah
21:37 < ybit> guess i will install the 1tb and start grabbing from you @ crazy hours of the day
21:38 < kanzure> yeah i just need to remember to disconnect the external hard drive and bring it with me one of these days
21:43 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: what was the process of you building your house? did you stay in a friend's house while building it?
21:44  * ybit has considered camping on site during the process
21:45 < katsmeow-afk> no, i pitched a 16x16ft shack for the first winter, and got the top floor bathroom enclosed during the winter, and the kitchen layout and wiring/plumbing, moved into that the next Spring
21:46 < katsmeow-afk> got the utility room enclosed pronto, which was really quite empty and 8x16, and put the bed in there while i got the big bedroom done 16x24
21:48  * katsmeow-afk listens to songs so old they specify "jet plane" to travel on
21:49 < fenn> pre-singularity culture
21:50 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/screenshots/2009-09-26-cal3d.png
21:50 < katsmeow-afk> i saw Bond movie Quantum of Solace a few days ago, finally, and was nostalgic over the DC-3(4?)
21:50 < fenn> so i'm making a list of stuff that happened in 1969 with the argument that the singularity actually happened in 1969
21:50 < katsmeow-afk> the engines were sure new tho, it wasn't a vintage plane
21:51 < kanzure> http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=quantum_of_phallus
21:51 < fenn> i know there's a lot more than what's on there already: microprocessor invented, internet begins, engelbart demo, unix invented, moon landing, woodstock
21:51 < katsmeow-afk> how did the singularity happen then, when almost nothing has changed since then??  :  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/new-rule-if-america-cant_b_299383.html
21:51 < fenn> katsmeow-afk: it only seems like nothing has changed since because things were changing so fast
21:52 < kanzure> fenn: how are you getting past the singularitarian's argument that "singularity is only about ai"?
21:52 < fenn> i guess 'woodstock' doesn't really capture the whole civil rights thing
21:52 < katsmeow-afk> only per Moore's law in semiconductors, i've seen little else advancing at any speed
21:52 < fenn> kanzure: just by using definitions of the terms
21:53 < fenn> kanzure: if someone wants to redefine a term then they're just being a body part
21:53 < fenn> it's only obvious in retrospect what happened
21:53 < katsmeow-afk> new automobiles look different that 1960's models, but it's still a gas burner with gears, belts, etc
21:54 < kanzure> boo hoo. kats didn't get her flying car.
21:54 < katsmeow-afk> so the Japanese showed us a beter way to make Vega and Pinto engines, what else is new?
21:54 < katsmeow-afk> kanzure, no, i am only trying to see where fenn sees the "rapid improvements"
21:55 < fenn> it was a point of rapid change which had unpredictable outcome
21:55 < katsmeow-afk> you must be speaking of the social goings-on
21:55 < fenn> i guess.. everything is social in some sense
21:55 < kanzure> i'm not
21:56 < ybit> chemical suppliers, i need a good site which links to them. i know of one which i've shown Phreedom 
21:56 < ybit> just need to find it in the bookmarks archive
21:56 < katsmeow-afk> Maher's editorial is supporting my hypothesis that the collective total world IQ remains the same, even as the population increases
21:57 < katsmeow-afk> the cause of that, i don't know
21:57 < fenn> substrate overload in the universe simulator
21:57 < ybit> it's so odd how that works, if true, because the information is much more prevalent than it was so many years ago
21:58 < fenn> it just runs low res copies of the humans :)
21:58 < fenn> matter only exists if you perceive it right?
21:58 < katsmeow-afk> i found my olde Berol rapidesign green plastic template R-542 , it's different than the one i bough a few yrs ago because i coldn't find the original
21:59 < katsmeow-afk> ybit, i think it's because there's no value on a human knowing anything,, fast food places now hire people who don't even speak rudimentary english
22:01 < fenn> hmm i think maher is really talking about "the revolution of lowered expectations"
22:01 < katsmeow-afk> she actuially did a poor job of spanish too, she said "es mal", i said "por que es mal?" ,, and she looked stunned and went away
22:01 < katsmeow-afk> had to wait on a english speaker to get my Frosty (tm) pseudo-food-stuff
22:02 < ybit> then again, i notice from logs from certain family members using this computer that maybe tech such as txt messaging, web-browsing, and other tech enables/encourages stupidity as well
22:02 < katsmeow-afk> and i am "unemployable"
22:02 < katsmeow-afk> forking soie ;o4n284y5n8ykhsdk,bgx, humans
22:03 < katsmeow-afk> ybit, that's been suggested as well, leading to add
22:03 < fenn> will your boat have a frosty generator?
22:03 < katsmeow-afk> turns out, forced multitasking doesn't help
22:03 < ybit> i called customer service for some company the other day and the guy who answered wasn't able to understand my clear english, he had to turn the phone over to what seemed like a boss
22:03 < katsmeow-afk> fenn, no , i intend to be healthy 
22:04 < ybit> we have a frosty generator at work :P
22:04 < fenn> it's true, and drug addled "ADHD" kids don't have any baseline experience to compare distraction-land to
22:04 < ybit> just put it together this week
22:04 < ybit> what's wrong with adhd, huh? we're just immune to the parasite 0, that's all :)
22:05 < ybit> m0 or whatever it was called
22:05 < fenn> well it's a problem when you pretend to be writing code and watching tv and IRC and checking your email
22:05 < kanzure> what the hell is my sister up to?
22:05 < kanzure> http://firefly009.weebly.com/chinese-curses.html
22:05 < fenn> and end up doing all of them poorly
22:06 < fenn> s/irc/your preferred text based communication medium/
22:06 < katsmeow-afk> and to think i been adding task switching to my code to give it adhd
22:06 < fenn> and s/code/work-like activity/
22:07 < ybit> superkuh: maybe it was you that i talked to about sites for purchasing chemicals, i can't remember who it was now, and i'm not tempted to look through these 50bajillion usb drives atm
22:08 < katsmeow-afk> is superkuh talking in here?
22:08 < fenn> not often
22:08 < katsmeow-afk>  superkuh has been idle 2hrs 55mins 16secs
22:08 < katsmeow-afk> i was afraid i may have inadvertently put him on ignore
22:09 < fenn> kanzure: unfortunately that chinese transliteration doesn't really tell you how to pronounce it, because chinese is a tonal language
22:09 < kanzure> is there some particular reason there's this random chinese and random lego set on these pages?
22:09 < ybit> thanks for the utex.org link kanzure
22:10 < fenn> is summer glau supposed to be chinese?
22:10 < katsmeow-afk> no
22:10 < ybit> btw, kanzure, that's probably normal for children to do. i remember it was fashionable to do this at some point as a little kid
22:10 < kanzure> when i was 13, my websites were way better
22:10 < kanzure> pokemon totally rocks serenity and firefly
22:10 < fenn> ugh
22:11 < fenn> i'm pretty sure pokemon is worse
22:11 < kanzure> oh. hm.
22:11 < fenn> at least i generally don't have to shield my eyes from firefly
22:16 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/20020923005046/animeu.hey.nu/index.php?a=instructions&valid_user=&password=&color1=373637&color2=202020
22:16 < kanzure> oh man. how terrible.
22:16 < kanzure> maybe she has it right after all
22:26 < ybit> http://www.mae.cornell.edu/mpeck/ found it after reading an article entitled 'starship on a chip' which mentioned him
22:27 < drazak> firefly is good
22:27 < drazak> :D
22:29 < fenn> based on the requirement for an ionosphere to complete the current loop, i think so-called "lorentz force" drives are really just a form of ion propulsion
22:30 -!- spm_ [n=spm@194-144-23-6.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:30 < fenn> it's still cool because you don't necessarily need to store propellant
22:38 < genehacker> not sure about that fenn
22:38 < genehacker> lorentz force drives work by lorentz force
22:38 < genehacker> a charge moving through earth's magnetic field experiences lift
22:39 < fenn> an equal and opposite charge moves back through the ionosphere, imparting an equal momentum to the ions in the opposite direction
22:39 < fenn> sound familiar?
22:40 < genehacker> it's not necessary though
22:40 < genehacker> no
22:40 < fenn> yes it is
22:40 < genehacker> doesn't
22:40 < fenn> uh huh
22:40 < genehacker> that's a tether
22:40 < fenn> you can't have current flow in one direction indefinitely
22:40 < ybit> http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4579860 :: 1800 Mechanical Movements, Devices and Appliances :: brought to you by timshmidt
22:41 < genehacker> http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=969
22:41 < genehacker> in djvu
22:41 < genehacker> downloaded it
22:41 < genehacker> it's good
22:42 < fenn> genehacker: how is that not exactly what i just said?
22:43 < fenn> also i don't get why it matters that it's a capacitor
22:43 < genehacker> fenn what did you learn in highschool about electrons moving in a magnetic field?
22:43 < fenn> they curve, why?
22:43 < genehacker> because they experience a force!
22:44 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force
22:44 < fenn> oh, that "other" lorentz force
22:44 < genehacker> http://www.sr.bham.ac.uk/xmm/images/fmc/lhr_340_287.gif
22:44 < genehacker> yeah
22:45 < genehacker> though I wonder if this works:
22:45 < fenn> i still don't see how being charged will increase your momentum
22:45 < genehacker> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=9&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhandle.dtic.mil%2F100.2%2FADA273824&ei=H-C-St3lO5GysgPo5Pk7&usg=AFQjCNGIkh9RKLlGxZc-vrjbixBKFBbsgQ&sig2=g21QEdz_zfUcaxVYqbH-vQ
22:46 < genehacker> http://arxiv.org/abs/0805.3332
22:47 < kanzure> ybit: "1800 mechanical movements" was a library on cmu.edu wasn't it?
22:47 < fenn> no
22:47 < genehacker> no this is a book
22:47 < fenn> you're thinking kmoddl
22:47 < genehacker> kmoddl has files to make some of the movements
22:47 < genehacker> which I find cool
22:47 < genehacker> was also made by our friend Hod Lipson
22:48 < genehacker> fenn second link is the paper on how that charged thing works
22:49 < fenn> 'essentially, a current loop exposed to a non-uniform magnetic field will experience a net force'
22:49 < fenn> is that the idea?
22:49 < genehacker> yeah
22:49 < genehacker> they make the magnetic field nonuniform though
22:49 < genehacker> which has me suspicious
22:49 < fenn> why?
22:50 < fenn> earths' field is non-uniform around the poles
22:50 < genehacker> bolonkin published a paper on essentially the same thing
22:50 < fenn> of course that would restrict you to a polar orbit
22:50 < genehacker> I suspect he stole from this one
22:50 < genehacker> keep reading the paper
22:51 < fenn> it's an obvious idea
22:51 < fenn> treat the earth as a giant AC motor stator
22:51 < genehacker> the idea is to shield part of the current loop so that it experiences less force than the other unshielded part
22:51 < fenn> no, that's crap i'm afraid
22:51 < genehacker> how?
22:52 < fenn> you're trying to make a magnetic monopole
22:52 < fenn> the field will leak out somehow
22:52 < genehacker> the field may leak out but it can't get in?
22:53 < fenn> no, shielding works both ways
22:53 < genehacker> fuck this argument
22:53 < genehacker> I'll try simulating this set up
22:53 < fenn> ok have fun
22:54 < genehacker> and surely that will prove it doesn't work
22:54 < katsmeow-afk> "SpaceX announced recently that it would be integrating a stripped-down test version of its own Dragon cargo capsule as the payload for its first Falcon 9 test launch. The Falcon 9 rocket is currently scheduled to launch on November 29 of this year if everything goes according to plan. However, Elon Musk admits that launch day will likely slip to sometime early next year.
22:54 < genehacker> but yeah I see what you mean
22:55 < fenn> an idea i just came up with is to have two spacecraft in opposite orbits that mutually attrach each other with magnetic fields to increase speed
22:56 < genehacker> in that paper they claim that because a current loop that had both current contours shielded experienced less torque that his would work
22:56 < katsmeow-afk> wouldn't they spin up beyond reasonable?
22:56 < fenn> can't quite reach geocentric orbit though
22:56 < fenn> erm. geostationary orbit
22:57 < genehacker> fenn do you know what retrograde orbit is and why no one has ever put a satellite in retrograde orbit?
22:57 < fenn> why do you say no one has ever done it?
22:57 < katsmeow-afk> it's been done
22:57 < fenn> it just means you launch west instead of east
22:58 < katsmeow-afk> take a bit more fuel, and the orbit decays a tiney bit faster
22:58 < genehacker> it has
22:58 < genehacker> that's surprising
22:58 < fenn> you lose about 2000mph due to earth's spin
22:58 < genehacker> yeah
22:58 < genehacker> it's hard
22:58 < fenn> 3000mph
23:00 < genehacker> supposedly if stuff in retrograde orbit collides with stuff in normal orbit you could get a lot of space junk
23:00 < fenn> i guess
23:00 < fenn> i'd expect polar/non-polar to be worse
23:01 < kanzure>  ImportError: ./_cal3d.so: undefined symbol: __cxa_guard_acquire
23:01 < kanzure> i think that means i need to add -lstdc++ to my gcc line, but that doesn't fix the problem
23:05 < kanzure> ok adding -fPIC seems to help it along, but now it's complaining about __gxx_personality_v0
23:06 < kanzure> aha. and to fix __gxx_personality_v0 i have to use g++, apparently gcc ignores -lstdc++
23:06 < kanzure> er. nevermind.
23:07 < fenn> cal3d doesn't have a makefile?
23:08 < fenn> also i wonder why you're doing character animation
23:08 < kanzure> because you told me to
23:08 < kanzure> cal3d has a make file
23:08 < fenn> no i told you to make some simulation of pies and apples flying about
23:08 < kanzure> pycal3d doesn't, it's old 2002 swig stuff that is for 2001 cal3d stuff which is outdated
23:08 < kanzure> damn it jim
23:08 < fenn> or teleporting if you prefer
23:09 < kanzure> what's the point of that
23:09 < fenn> well flying would be better of course
23:09 < fenn> i just think trying to animate a human is too much work at this point
23:09 < fenn> but go ahead and do whatever you want
23:09 < kanzure> just seems lame to move around a giant cube
23:09 < kanzure> can't you visualize that yourself?
23:10 < fenn> no
23:10 < kanzure> why not?
23:10 < fenn> the computer is supposed to visualize it, thats why
23:10 < kanzure> no it's not..
23:10 < kanzure> it's supposed to put a pie in a kitchen
23:10 < kanzure> or something
23:10 < fenn> i wouldn't trust a robot that can't tell me what it's about to do
23:11 < kanzure> i'm so confused
23:11 < genehacker> I wouldn't either
23:12 < kanzure> do i have to ld cal3d_wrap.o together with libstdc++.so or something?
23:13 < fenn> does libstdc++ have the symbol __cxa_guard_acquire?
23:14  * kanzure nods
23:14 < fenn> how do you know that?
23:14 < kanzure> it seems to resolve the __cxa_guard_acquire symbol error
23:15 < fenn> strings libstdc++.so | grep __cxa_guard_acquire
23:15 < fenn> try that with gxx_personality (it probably doesn't have it)
23:16 < fenn> the whole gcc/g++ thing is pretty lame really
23:16 < kanzure> this is the first time it's bitten me
23:16 < ybit> kanzure: there's now way i'm going to be able to diff the svn repos on this comp
23:16 < ybit> i'm just going to ask for help on the python-occ mailing list
23:17 < kanzure> ybit: just be sure to look at my changes to setup.py and src/environment.py
23:18 < ybit> were you operating in the svn or release dir?
23:18 < kanzure> fenn: yes libstdc++ has the symbol __cxa_guard_acquire according to strings and grep
23:18 < kanzure> ybit: i was in /home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/pythonOCC-0.3/ or something.
23:21 < ybit> right, but you were initially in /home/heath/builds/pythonOCC or pythonOCC-0.3?
23:21 < ybit> do you recall?
23:21 < kanzure> i preserved the directory name so whatever the dir name says, that's what i copied
23:27 < fenn> are past singularity summit talks/transcripts/fallout online?
23:27 < genehacker> http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html
23:27 < genehacker> kanzure you see that graph?
23:27 < genehacker> got anything for making graphs like that?
23:27 < fenn> graphsynth
23:27 < fenn> erk
23:27 < fenn> not graphsynth, no!
23:27 < kanzure> graphviz?
23:28 < fenn> graphviz, yeah that's it
23:28 < genehacker> the online one
23:28 < fenn> you can run it locally
23:28 < ybit> oh right, kanzure, mind doing a chmod -R 755 on /home/ybit/irclogs since i'll need to refer to the previous conversations when typing this email
23:28 < kanzure> fenn: singularity summits are lame like that. jata claimed to be trying to kick them into gear..
23:28 < fenn> 'dot' would give a result sorta like that recipe tree
23:29 < kanzure> ybit: done.
23:29 < fenn> apparently only kurzweil's video is online?
23:29 < ybit> kanzure: ty
23:29 < genehacker> fuck singularity summits
23:30 < genehacker> they don't get anything done
23:30 < fenn> oh, and drexler
23:30 < kanzure> ed boyden is doing some pretty cool stuff, genehacker.
23:30 < genehacker> like what?
23:30 < kanzure> optical control of neurons
23:30 < kanzure> "synthetic neurobiology"
23:30 < genehacker> can you get em to glow back?
23:31 < kanzure> grow black?
23:31 < kanzure> er
23:31 < fenn> genehacker: i tend to agree that conferences are a waste of time, but how else is anyone supposed to put together a good video presentation?
23:31 < genehacker> ok good point
23:31 < genehacker> but this reminds me of the fate of the technocrats
23:31 < fenn> poor technocrats
23:31 < fenn> wait a minute, who?
23:32 < genehacker> the technocrat movement
23:32 < kanzure> james hughes?
23:32 < fenn> they had bad pr and so nobody remembers them?
23:33 < genehacker> oh wait
23:33 < genehacker>  nevermind that was politics
23:34 < genehacker> this is tech
23:34 < fenn> hay guys u gotta use my new super powerful Technocracy Technate design, it's the best
23:34 < kanzure> another gnurd in austin: andyhowell@austin.rr.com
23:35 < kanzure> (he apparently asked a question about __cxa_pure_virtual)
23:35 < genehacker> where?
23:35 < fenn> heh "membership is open to any citizen of North America, except politicians"
23:35 < genehacker> I've heard that
23:35 < genehacker> oh wait
23:35 < genehacker> I think I've met with him
23:36 < genehacker> not sure
23:36 < genehacker> I know I've heard that name before
23:36 < fenn> apparently it's the only thing he's ever posted on the net
23:36 < fenn> Re: Static library for gcc compiling
23:37 < kanzure> nah, there was another one for something with gEDA and another for valgrind
23:37  * kanzure wasn't aware that anyone took valgrind seriously
23:37 < fenn> apparently it's useful
23:37 < fenn> still not clear on whether it's any better than gdb
23:37 < fenn> for backtraces at least
23:37 < kanzure> er wait, i'm thinking of something else sorry
23:38 < kanzure> what is the weird CAD library with a name similar to valgrind?
23:38 < fenn> varkon?
23:38 < kanzure> yes
23:38 < kanzure> hm. not quite close.
23:38 < fenn> nobody takes varkon seriously
23:38 < kanzure> but it's swedish, it must be good!
23:38  * kanzure leers at nsh_ 
23:40 < fenn> i thought he was british and living in finland
23:41 < ybit> i thought he died
23:41 < fenn> apparently back in .uk
23:41 < fenn> branstrom is swedish
23:42 < fenn> and splicer
23:42 < kanzure> anyone from europe is obligated to be swede
23:43 < ybit> trying to poke as many people as possible? you should probably list each nick and we can then play a guessing game of what countries they are from ;)
23:43 < fenn> who is zvader?
23:43 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 33 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 33 normal]
23:43 < ybit> i dunno, but i don't like him, my nick was the last on the list of nicks until that punk showed up :P
23:44 < kanzure> looks like UT's IP block
23:44 < fenn> first logged in from heckle.icmb.utexas.edu
23:45 < kanzure> yeah, institute for cellular and molecular biology
23:45 < fenn> odd, only ever said one thing
23:46 < kanzure> anything interesting?
23:46 < fenn> no
23:46 < kanzure> do we really have 33 nicks in here?
23:46 < kanzure> didn't we used to be only four plus or minus one bot?
23:47 < fenn> the channel of dreams.. "if you ramble they will come"
23:51 < kanzure> how do i choose which library to link in? lots of different libraries match for __gxx_personality_v0 but i'm sure some of them are bad choices
23:52 < kanzure> i'm guessing libvtkRenderingPythonTkWidgets.so.5.0.4 is the wrong choice
23:52 < kanzure> hm libstdc++ matches, but i'm already linking it in
23:54 < genehacker> yeah who is zvader?
23:54 < fenn> google says "use g++ instead of gcc"
23:54 < kanzure> fenn: but i am :(
23:54 < kanzure> i have to admit i like zvader's "real name"
23:55 < genehacker> which is?
23:55 < kanzure> genehacker: do: /whois zvader
23:57 < fenn> funnily enough this is more or less the same conversation you had last time zvader said something
23:59 < genehacker> oh forgot that
23:59 < genehacker> using a new client