--- Day changed Wed Oct 21 2009 00:11 < bkero> uh 00:11 < bkero> fsv is the linux equivalent 00:11 < bkero> It's old 00:11 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-59-210.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:18 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-59-210.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:48 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:53 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220-253-60-33.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:02 -!- Trooem [i=Trooem@121.172.10.138] has quit [] 07:10 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220-253-60-33.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:35 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-47-251.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:02 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-47-251.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:07 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-106-233.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:12 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/unsorted_papers/Optics%20and%20design%20of%20the%20fringe%20field%20monochromator%20for%20a%20Schottky%20field%20emission%20gun.pdf 08:23 -!- Trooem [i=Trooem@121.172.10.138] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:07 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-106-233.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:07 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-158-141.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:54 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-158-141.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:02 -!- mason-l [n=x@202-89-188-136.static.dsl.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:15 -!- mason-l [n=x@202-89-188-136.static.dsl.amnet.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:21 -!- mason-l [n=x@202-89-188-136.static.dsl.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:04 -!- ybit2 [i=4aa3343b@gateway/web/freenode/x-atrhgkpyybkduhiy] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:32 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-165-219.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:37 < ybit2> any91027138: why do you care what it looks like? 12:38 < ybit2> the transformer wave output on the oscopes that is 12:41 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-165-219.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:49 < ybit2> any91027138: it's been bother me today, you're prob. so i just asked my boss who it seems has worked at a business dealing with transformers specifically, we were able to replicate your output as well 12:49 < ybit2> you are probably picking up stray voltage from fluorescent lights in the room 12:50 < ybit2> you need to ground the opposite tip of the probe 12:50 < ybit2> and i'm out 12:50 -!- ybit2 [i=4aa3343b@gateway/web/freenode/x-atrhgkpyybkduhiy] has quit ["Page closed"] 12:57 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-165-219.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:58 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-165-219.public.utexas.edu] has quit [] 12:58 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-165-219.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:12 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-165-219.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:13 < genehacker2> is jonathan cline here? 13:26 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-165-219.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:32 < kanzure> no 13:59 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-165-219.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:47 -!- Goose|Laptop [n=evan@utdpat242007.utdallas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:16 < kanzure> http://www.epicycle.org/resources/HEwithDxPowerAndMomentumLim.png 15:16 < kanzure> any ideas on doing this with gnuplot? 15:34 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-100-173.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:35 < genehacker> damn 15:35 < genehacker> learned why needles vary in diameter 15:39 < Utopiah> kanzure: did you upload it all or is it through djangit? 15:46 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-100-173.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:57 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-100-173.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:01 < kanzure> Utopiah: what? 16:27 < Utopiah> did you copy the content of heybrian on your github account? 16:30 < kanzure> no 16:40 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-100-173.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:57 -!- Goose|Laptop [n=evan@utdpat242007.utdallas.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:55 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-87-200.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:23 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-87-200.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:48 < ybit> the latest paths.py error: http://pastebin.com/m2cc1db59 18:48 < ybit> kanzure, this may be of interest 19:34 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@128.62.39.45] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:52 -!- mason-l [n=x@202-89-188-136.static.dsl.amnet.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:54 < genehacker> kanzure got any papers on asteroid mining? 19:54 < kanzure> genehacker: no, just LOX orbital mining 19:55 < kanzure> ybit: 3001.png and friends are harvested from the web, you should just touch the files for now and be happy. i can send the images later i guess 19:55 < kanzure> but the pngs are definitely not in the skdb.git repo, so that should explain why you got the error that you did 19:56 -!- kardan_ [n=kardan@p54BE349E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:00 < genehacker> what's lox orbital mining? 20:00 < genehacker> mining asteroids for LOX? 20:00 < genehacker> if that vasimir thing works, it might be better to mine the hydrogen and use the oxygen to breath 20:07 < ybit> omfg, paths.py worked :) 20:12 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/images/2009-10-21-200714_1024x768_scrot.png 20:12 < ybit> should i rename that to "bryan sucks a matrix math again.png" ;) 20:14 < ybit> looks like it's identifying a hole correctly, but not recognizing that there's an object in the way 20:17 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE4AA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:23 < genehacker> hmmm.... rare earth's aren't so rare on asteroids 20:24 < genehacker> what does paths.py do? 20:27 < ybit> it just shows simple part mating of two bricks, iirc, for presentation purposes 20:30 < genehacker> what does it do? 20:31 < genehacker> and how does it do it? 20:31 < ybit> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/_media/fschemerawsmall.jpg :: i like how the tag-line here is "apt-get for real stuff" those floating submarines don't look real to me :P 20:32 < ybit> genehacker: it takes two bricks and combines them and you get to watch, how? i've yet to decipher all of the code, yet, so that's a question for kanzure 20:33 < ybit> or fenn if he ever gets back back from his top-secret mission to the galapagos 20:41 < kanzure> what is the question? 21:07 < genehacker> the galapogos, really? 21:08 < kanzure> something about training under turtle master roshi 21:09 < kanzure> ybit: eventually i'll turn the lego interfaces into ODE joints so that rotations can happen 21:10 < kanzure> also a better picture of the interesection problem would be hawt (also the graph exported in yaml) 21:26 < genehacker> so do you specify the possible lego connection points? 21:27 < genehacker> or does some program of yours figure that out? 21:28 < kanzure> you specifyi t: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/packages/lego/data.yaml 21:29 < kanzure> also: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/packages/lego/grammar.yaml 21:29 < genehacker> :( 21:29 < genehacker> paths.py does what? 21:30 < kanzure> it lets you visualize what's going on so you other people can go "oh now i get it" 21:30 < genehacker> if you're just showing the mating of two bricks, you are reinventing the wheel 21:32 < genehacker> maybe there's something I'm not seeing 21:33 < genehacker> it seems like you're doing something every lego cad program does 21:34 < kanzure> genehacker: i'm tired of explaining it to you 21:34 < kanzure> why can't you be more like ybit 21:38 < genehacker> from what I can tell it looks like your program is randomely putting together lego bricks 21:38 < genehacker> I am having trouble seeing the use of this 21:38 < kanzure> well if you tell people "legos are being connected" they don't believe you 21:38 < kanzure> you have to show it to them 21:39 < genehacker> so it randomely assembles lego bricks and shows them being moved into position, correct? 21:40 < kanzure> no it does not show them being moved 21:40 < genehacker> then what does it do? 21:40 < kanzure> it shows the assembly 21:41 < genehacker> does it randomely appearify lego blocks at interface points? 21:41 < kanzure> looking at a list of what's connected to what is sometimes hard to figure out 21:41 < kanzure> yes but that's just because it's a demo and unguided 21:41 < genehacker> or is it actually putting some preassembled shape together 21:42 < genehacker> lego cad programs can automatically generate assembly instructions already if that's what you're trying too do 21:42 < kanzure> none of them are open source 21:42 < kanzure> also their instructions suck 21:43 < genehacker> how is this better? 21:43 < kanzure> it's open source 21:43 < genehacker> ok 21:44 < kanzure> also it's based on real CAD data 21:44 < kanzure> not STL files like most lego programs 21:44 < kanzure> (there's one that uses povray files but i consider it suspect..) 21:44 < genehacker> so have you figured out how to automatically generate assembly steps for a lego block assembly? 21:45 < kanzure> yes but what i haven't figured out is how to do it for the general case 21:45 < genehacker> what do you mean how to do it for the general case? 21:45 < kanzure> for anything that's not legos 21:46 < genehacker> do you have a demo that shows automatic lego block assembly instruction generation? 21:46 < kanzure> no but fenn wrote a graph maker that shows how a lego assembly goes together (it's not the same thing as instructions though) 21:47 < genehacker> a lego assembly graph? 21:47 < genehacker> that has already been done 21:47 < genehacker> so you can't generate instructions for any arbitrary assembly of the lego blocks that are in skdb? 21:48 < kanzure> the code for that hasn't been written because it won't apply to things that are non-legos 21:48 < kanzure> it would be totally useless since legos aren't what we're aiming for 21:48 < kanzure> i mean, they are part of the subset of what we are aiming for 21:48 < kanzure> but a general solution for instruction generation is the gold here, not just lego pictures one after another 21:49 < genehacker> show me that you can automatically generate instructions for legos then I'll be impressed 21:50 < kanzure> why would you be impressed by that? 21:50 < kanzure> add this brick, add that brick 21:50 < kanzure> meh 21:51 < genehacker> because it might allow for totally automatic assembly of lego structures which would be cool 21:51 < kanzure> i think we should focus on more general assembly instruction generation 21:51 < kanzure> so that we could cover more than just legos 21:52 < genehacker> how would automatically generating instructions for just legos work? 21:53 < kanzure> let's say that you construct an assembly in skdb by connecting parts together 21:53 < kanzure> the simplest way to generate pamphlet-style instructions would be to render the assembly at each stage 21:53 < kanzure> and highlight the latest brick that has been added, from a standard isometric view 21:53 < kanzure> but these are not really "instructions", they are just pictures 21:54 < kanzure> to me instructions would be "append this lego brick to that lego brick by the upper two rows of studs" 21:54 < genehacker> how do you know how to add the next brick where? 21:54 < kanzure> that information is in the assembly already 21:54 < genehacker> can you generate logical instructions though 21:55 < kanzure> what? 21:55 < genehacker> for example, if you're constructing a lego pyramid, how does the program know to start at the bottom of the pyramid and work it's way to the top instead of the other way? 21:56 < kanzure> i could ask the same for you 21:56 < kanzure> why would you start from the bottom anyway? 21:56 < kanzure> you can start just about anywhere 21:56 < kanzure> since you could lay the pyramid on its side 21:57 < genehacker> what if it's a really large pyramid and I don't have construction equipment 21:57 < kanzure> i guess the guy who added the pyramid to skdb would have to check that 21:58 < genehacker> check what? 21:58 < kanzure> maybe he would make sure it always started from the bottom and worked its way up 21:58 < kanzure> check that the instructions look ok 21:58 < kanzure> and aren't i.e. totally fucking ridiculous :) 21:58 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:59 < genehacker> there are many ways to generate instructions for the same object, however, only a couple will actually make sense or be practically useful in the real world 22:00 < genehacker> I guess you could specify a ground plate that tells the program which way is the bottom 22:01 < kanzure> yes 22:01 < kanzure> also some common checks/guidelines can be executed on instructions or the instruction generator 22:01 < kanzure> to make sure it doesn't cause impossible scenarios 22:01 < genehacker> what common checks/guidelines need to be performed? 22:02 < kanzure> i think we'll learn that with time 22:02 < kanzure> when we get back funky results and say "hmm that's not right" 22:03 < genehacker> I'm worried this could be a problem for automatic instruction generation of general objects 22:07 < genehacker> and how do you generate instructions for a puzzle type object where several pieces need to be positioned at the same time? 22:12 < genehacker> anyway if you can generate instructions for lego pieces that make sense, it shouldn't be too hard to make instructions for general objects 22:13 < genehacker> especially if you can generat instructions for any lego assembly consisting of any lego piece 22:31 < genehacker> what is the point of automatically generating instructions for humans to carry out, an exploded view cad model works just as good. 22:36 < genehacker> I need to teach myself python 22:37 < genehacker> so I could write a program to determine which molding process would work for which metal 22:38 < genehacker> and part 22:42 < kanzure> exploded views don't tell you how to use a lathe 22:43 < genehacker> yeah, so...? 22:43 < genehacker> do you have a program that can automatically generate instructions on how to use a lathe to make a part? 22:44 < kanzure> no but i need one 22:44 < genehacker> and if said part can be lathed? 22:46 < genehacker> argh, why can't there be a list of phase diagrams that aren't in graph.pdf for every alloy? 22:48 < genehacker> also for making .yaml files for casting processes where does mold material and mold material data go? 22:49 < genehacker> How do I denote subsets of a generalized casting process? 22:50 < kanzure> let me check 22:51 < kanzure> technically it would go under taxonomy.yaml somewhere 22:51 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/taxonomy.yaml 22:52 < kanzure> so for example "grinding" is under "abrasive" and so "grinding" inherits all of the parameters to "abrasive" but can choose to over-write them with its own custom values 22:52 < kanzure> i think that's what you're talking about? 22:53 < kanzure> i think material data probably belongs somewhere else.. but the process should be able to determine what characteristics of the material matter how, or whtaever 22:53 < kanzure> *whatever 22:54 < genehacker> for example investment casting can use several different types of lost-patterns(wax, plastic, styrofoam) and several different types of slurries 22:55 < genehacker> there are also several molding process modifiers 22:56 < genehacker> like centrifugal casting and thixocasting that might be appliable to several different molding techniques 23:01 < genehacker> should I just make yaml files for each of the branches in the casting part of the tree for now? 23:01 < genehacker> and work the othe stuff out later 23:08 < kanzure> sure, we can work it out 23:19 < genehacker> so I just dump in tons and tons of useful data? 23:20 < genehacker> if you have a good format for putting in mathematical relations I could put some useful stuff in