--- Day changed Wed Oct 28 2009
00:00 < kanzure> must needly optimize
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00:51 < fenn> "We were made for each other, Baby. Nothing can keep us apart." This was the last thing she would ever say to me. 
01:16 < splicer> I guess she was wrong then
01:17 < splicer> ...or it could be as a friend once put it that "women are evil in it's purest form"
01:20 < katsmeow-afk> <cough>
01:21 < splicer> (present company excluded of course)
01:21 < katsmeow-afk> your friend still wrote off 50% of the human population on the planet
01:22 < splicer> he had encountered a specimen that made a big impression
01:23  * katsmeow-afk nods
01:26 < fenn> splicer: no actually she died
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09:28 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/screenshots/2009-10-28-captcha-breaker.png
09:38 < kanzure> not sure what to do in these situations: http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/screenshots/2009-10-28-captcha-breaker-2.png
09:39 < kanzure> best idea i can come up with is to have a NN detect when there are multiple letters present in a rectangle and request a new captcha
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10:13 < kanzure> http://code.google.com/p/openmanufacturing/ ugh?
10:42 < genehacker> why are you trying to break captcha's?
10:43 < genehacker> are you perhaps trying to start a spam empire?
10:49 < kanzure> it's because i can't read them
10:53 < genehacker> why can't you read them?
10:54 < genehacker> anyway I think a program that could read graphs would be much more useful
11:00 < kanzure> have you seen these captchas? they are getting harder and harder to read
11:00 < genehacker> oh
11:00 < kanzure> look at the captcha on this page: http://random.irb.hr/signup.php
11:00 < genehacker> what website are those captcha's from
11:01 < kanzure> the captcha in my screenshot is a simulation of phpBB 3.0.5's captchas
11:01 < kanzure> phpBB 3.0.5 has a script to generate captchas so instead of querying an active forum installation,
11:01 < kanzure> i took the script out of it and wrapped it into my own code
11:02 < genehacker> http://tservice.net.ru/~s0mbre/gallery/mailru_captcha_all.jpg
11:03 < genehacker> make a program that solves these and you win the internet
11:03 < kanzure> why's that
11:03 < kanzure> not too hard: there seems to always be two horizontal lines
11:03 < kanzure> when they intersect a vertical line, don't remove the horizontal line
11:04 < genehacker> they aren't always horizontal
11:04 < kanzure> (er, the pixels from the horizontal line)
11:04 < kanzure> what's so hard about this
11:04 < genehacker> figuring out what a line is
11:05 < genehacker> and what's a letter
11:05 < kanzure> the lines always start at the lef
11:05 < kanzure> *left
11:05 < kanzure> (or the right)
11:05 < kanzure> isn't this like a day-1 programming class problem?
11:05 < genehacker> http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1232
11:07 < kanzure> the part i'm stuck on is whether or not to resize the individual letters, or if i should construct some sort of feature vector, before i dump it into the neural network
11:09 < kanzure> yeah even here this guy uses a resize method: http://code.google.com/p/breaking-captcha/source/browse/src/GuessCaptcha.cpp
11:09 < genehacker> http://goldbach.cse.psu.edu/s/captcha/
11:09 < kanzure> "deprecated, boo go away" well nevermind
11:12 < genehacker> woo, NASA's new ares rocket took off
11:18 < genehacker> anyway pattern recognition is supposed to be a major compsci problem
11:20 < kanzure> captcha breaking is far from a major computer science problem
11:20 < genehacker> then what's the point of a captcha if computers can break them?
11:21 < kanzure> :)
11:21 < genehacker> I don't see much practical use for captcha cracking
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12:32 < genehacker2> since you are doing some pattern recognition work, do you know if there are any good programs for recognizing humans?
12:33 < genehacker2> or even better making a UAV not hit trees
12:59 < genehacker2> http://www.vextec.com/news/news_2009.09.16.htm
12:59 < genehacker2> ybit remember that software I was talking about?
12:59 < genehacker2> well I found it
12:59 < kanzure> there are programs that recognize faces, if that's what you mean
13:00 < genehacker2> argh...
13:00 < genehacker2> they don't say how it works
13:00 < genehacker2> I know, let's get the university to buy that software for us!
13:03 < kanzure> why not just go download opencv
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14:17 < fenn> why bother automating with advertisemets like this: "captcha typing teams for 24/7 ready. Rate $1.25 for 1K, up to  100K captchas per day"
14:21 < fenn> maybe i should hire indians to be my spam filter
14:23 < fenn> hah "ai seduces ignorant humans to evade captchas"
14:24 < fenn> these news stories are starting to sound srsly sf
14:24 < fenn> i love that they named it 'melissa'
14:29 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_(computer_worm)
14:29 < fenn> (the original, not the captcha breaker)
14:54 < kanzure> fenn: mitch pryor is looking for emc people to make larry page a controller for his two-arm coffee-making robot in his kitchen (well, it's at pickle, but larry wants it in his kitchen)
14:56 < ybit> skdb made it to MAKE :)
14:59 < ybit> http://elementsofhumanity.com/#/video/entry/25/ :: the video clip of the diybio.org site for a split-second shows 'skdb' :)
15:13 < kanzure> i find it inappropriate that "mackenzie cowell" is "the human element"
15:13 < kanzure> worst ad campaign ever
15:18 < fenn> this reminds me of the evil hacker's pasocon from chobits http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejROvUC-gWU
15:25 < kanzure> i like receiving emails from the pidgin development list
15:26 < kanzure> very often students in college come on the list and ask which bugs they can work on, for a class project, etc.
15:26 < kanzure> anyway nice to see something going right
15:26 < kanzure> matt suggests voronoi path planning for captcha breaking
15:27 < kanzure> http://home.scarlet.be/zoetrope/voronoi/index.htm
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15:32 < fenn> for some reason i read 'mitch pryor' as 'mitch kapor'
15:32 < fenn> that had me confused for about a half hour
15:33 < kanzure> lotus doesn't care for you either
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15:34 < fenn> kapor ran away from lotus after it mutated into a corporate giant
15:34 < fenn> (and then founded the EFF)
15:34 < fenn> he's a nice guy
15:34 < kanzure> nice of him
15:34 < kanzure> so apparently fenn's mind reading apparatus isn't limited by geographical distance?
15:35 < fenn> um. no, it isn't. the coincidence density function simply favors colocality
15:36  * kanzure hasn't been plotting coincidence density
15:36 < fenn> one dataset to rule them all
15:36 < fenn> one schema to bind them
15:37 < kanzure> matt wants me to make a "super translator" for gxml, sysml, yaml, functionCAD, .repo, etc. :/
15:39 < kanzure> http://code.google.com/p/openmanufacturing/
15:39 < fenn> is there any code there?
15:39 < kanzure> no
15:39 < kanzure> i don't know why paul hates skdb
15:43 < kanzure> there's some code here though: http://code.google.com/p/openvirgle/
15:49 < kanzure> btw i more or less have a "clean slate" for any paper to be written with matt
15:49 < kanzure> can anyone think of anything paper worthy?
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15:54 < fenn> just about anything you can think of, by the looks of it
15:54 < fenn> representing soap-opera plots with social network graph grammar rules
15:56 < kanzure> have we done that?
15:56 < fenn> those little humanoid robots are exactly the sort of fiddly plastic crap that reprap would be good at making
15:56 < fenn> minus gears and electronics of course
15:57 < kanzure> sorry did i drop some packets?
15:57 < fenn> we're logged in to the same server
15:57 < kanzure> so when did we do soap-opera plots?
15:57 < kanzure> and what does this have to do with little humanoid robots?
15:59 < fenn> oh sorry i'm still stuck on http://file.mujaki.blog.shinobi.jp/cw_090921.JPG
16:00 < fenn> (from http://clockwork.shikisokuzekuu.net/ but it's getting pounded)
16:00 < CIA-23> skdb: kanzure * r a3c5d2d /thirdparty/graphsynth.py: partial xml reader for graphsynth.py Graph class
16:00 < CIA-23> skdb: kanzure * r 89f60b6 / (22 files in 6 dirs): web development stuff needs to be under a repository
16:01 < fenn> and i'm reading the book "makers" which incidentally was released for free today file:///home/fenn/book/Cory_Doctorow_-_Makers.html
16:01 < fenn> whoops
16:01 < fenn> well i'm sure anyone can find it if they try
16:16 < fenn> i do sort of wonder what sort of social institutions must be in place in order for one guy to manufacture something like this http://www.geekalerts.com/u/manga-robot.jpg
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17:11 < kanzure> when your most popular pop star is named "lin minmay", things become possible
17:22 < ybit> "A method for promoting momentum" john christie
17:22 < ybit> and the book 'disciplined minds' that paul keeps talking about, i'd like to take a look at both 
17:23 < ybit> d.minds is non-existant on the interwebs it seems
17:23 < kanzure> fenn: ybit has been meaning to ask you about omnifab i think
17:24 < ybit> i think i did last night when i was sleep deprived
17:24 < ybit> hadn't heard back, but that's okay
17:25 < ybit> think the only thing i wanted to know is if you two would be willing to change the name of skdb to omnifab... since omni = all, and skdb is about gathering all the engineering knowledge, it kind of makes sense.. but i'm fine if it doesn't
17:26  * ybit naps before diving into code
17:47 < ybit> well, the questions i asked last night were related to the video
17:48  * ybit had some lucid dreams last night, something about trazodone and ritalin that causes this, i have them everytime i take the stuff
17:48 < ybit> i can still recall the flippin awesome dream scenarios
17:49 < ybit> it was pretty cool, i was in what seemed like the future and there were these super people who able to change into their transformer state whenever they wanted. and there was a really idea of an elevator
17:50 < ybit> the only thing missing from it being an elevator was doors
17:50  * ybit was about 100 stories up on some platform.. the guy was demonstrating it, but was terribly wicked
17:52 < ybit> the idea was that you jumped where expected the elevator to be and suddenly a cloud like object would zoom at nearly the speed of light to where expected it to be, then it would just as quickly take you to your destination
17:52 < kanzure> you're either missing words or you just suck
17:53 < kanzure> "to where expected it to be"
17:53 < ybit> yeah yeah
17:53 < ybit> "you" is missing twice
17:53 < ybit> no matter where you jumped it would immediately recognize where you were going and allow for a soft landing... this is all well and good until you realize that if the operator didn't like you.. he would allow you to just fall and not activate this cloud to zoom upward and catch you :P
17:54 < ybit> i also remember last time i was on this stuff, my face was being beaten with some metal object by what looked like 'sting' from wwf/e 
17:55 < ybit> anywho, good sleep, over 12.5 hours of it, and the only reason i got up was because i knew i had to leave in 5 mins for work
17:55 < ybit> so next time, maybe i won't take as much and i won't fill up the channel with nonsense :)
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18:03 < fenn> so he just wants to change the name, is that all?
18:04 < fenn> (to omnifab)
18:04 < kanzure> tbh i don't know about name changing
18:05 < kanzure> (but i'm certainly ok with omnifab.org existing or possibly being the name of the business i was hoping to do)
18:05 < fenn> i never liked the name skb anyway
18:05 < kanzure> did i come up with it?
18:05 < fenn> yeah
18:05 < kanzure> huh
18:05 < kanzure> i was sorta blaming it on you
18:05 < fenn> no i was calling it 'autogenix' remember?
18:05 < kanzure> for some reason we stopped that?
18:06 < fenn> autogenix was the distribution name, i guess
18:06 < kanzure> names names names
18:06 < fenn> yeah :\
18:07 < kanzure> i wonder if i can somehow avoid null terminating the name of any child i might one day have
18:07 < kanzure> <-- too much C programming?
18:07 < kanzure> anyway
18:07 < kanzure> do we want to rename skdb? the only reason i'm slightly against this is because (even with grep) it's a pain in the neck
18:08 < fenn> nobody looks at the code anyway :P
18:08 < kanzure> i wish you were joking
18:08 < fenn> a massive sed isn't very hard
18:09 < kanzure> how do you make sed avoid .git/ ?
18:09 < fenn> one way you could do it is backup the .git dir first
18:11 < kanzure> so you prefer omnifab?
18:12 < fenn> i'm biased; after reading 'skdb' millions of times over the last year
18:12 < kanzure> i don't know which way you are biased
18:12 < fenn> toward not changing
18:13 < kanzure> i guess even gaim changed its name. although that was over a legal matter
18:14 < kanzure> ybit: it'd be hot if you let me try using omnifab as the business name/front for skdb :)
18:14 < fenn> omnifab.com is a company.. hm. well whatever
18:15 < kanzure> precision sheet metal fabrication
18:15 < kanzure> not terrible
18:15 < kanzure> no photos? hmph
18:18 < ybit> link, link please
18:18 < kanzure> http://omnifab.com/
18:18 < genehacker> how about we change the name everyday to confuse people
18:18 < ybit> oh
18:18 < kanzure> genehacker: on wednesdays it will be called, "flying spaghetti soup"
18:20 < genehacker> exactly
18:21 < genehacker> also carbon fiber is hard to assemble by hand
18:21 < genehacker> also it's quite awesome, argh, why does the military have to make it so expensive....
18:23 < ybit> there are no trademarks for omnifab
18:23 < ybit> http://www.omnifabllc.com/
18:23 < ybit> http://omnifabinc.com/
18:23 < ybit> seems the company owns those as well
18:23 < ybit> or maybe not, they all seem to be in diff locations
18:24 < ybit> either way, our product is different
18:24 < genehacker> there are no trademarks for omnifab?
18:24 < genehacker> are you fucking kidding me?
18:24 < genehacker> I don't believe it
18:25 < genehacker> how could such an awesome name go unused
18:25 < ybit> ..
18:25 < ybit> genehacker: did you see http://omnifab.org/index.html
18:26 < fenn> well i guess that's a vote in favor
18:26 < kanzure> we're voting?
18:26 < kanzure> i thought keeping the names separate was fine?
18:26 < fenn> we're playing duck duck goose
18:27 < kanzure> quack
18:27 < fenn> quack
18:27  * kanzure shifts his eyes nervously
18:27 < ybit> http://www.omnifabllc.com/images/trademark.gif
18:27  * fenn wonders what noise geese make
18:27 < kanzure> squawk?
18:27 < ybit> that's too much like what we are doing :|
18:28 < fenn> so the monster sweet potatoes are more starchy than sweet
18:28 < ybit> :P
18:28 < fenn> if anyone was wondering... (i bought a five pound potato the other day)
18:34 < kanzure> ybit: omnifab layout has been added to skdb
18:34 < kanzure> i was trying to remember how to do pure CSS gradients but i forget
18:34 < kanzure> can't be "web2.0" without a gradient
18:35  * katsmeow-afk heard bird sounds
18:37 < ybit> kanzure: did you see http://ybit.ath.cx/omnifab/images/bar2_120.png ?
18:37 < ybit> can't recall if i sent you that link
18:37 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.google.com/search?q=css+gradient
18:38 < ybit> ?
18:38 < kanzure> what's the point of this image?
18:38 < ybit> it was going to be the navigation bar color
18:38 < ybit> katsmeow-afk: i realize it isn't two colors
18:39 < ybit> or multiple colors*
18:39 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/omnifab/styles/screen.css
18:39 < ybit> not sure why index.html fails to read my mind successfully
18:39 < kanzure> you should use the code in the repository
18:40 < kanzure> i basically copied most of what you had
18:40 < kanzure> except simplified it and removed some absolutisms and cruft that inevitably builds up with CSS
18:40 < kanzure> with CSS it's more of a guessing game if something is going to work or not
18:40 < kanzure> so you end up with lots of needless attributes that have to be flushed out every once in a while
18:40 < ybit>  copy clients/templates/IndexTemplate.tmpl => web/styles/speech.css 
18:41 < kanzure> nope that's a lie
18:41 < ybit> did you actually make these css files, /me checks
18:41 < kanzure> i just did "touch"
18:41 < kanzure> and since IndexTemplate was blank, it figured it was the same thing
18:41 < kanzure> anyway, IndexTemplate should have something new in it
18:41 < kanzure> IndexTemplate.tmpl i mean
18:42 < ybit> heath@togetic:~/projects/skdb/web/templates$ file IndexTemplate.tmpl 
18:42 < ybit> IndexTemplate.tmpl: empty
18:42 < kanzure> blahhh?
18:42 < ybit> blahhh.
18:42 < CIA-23> skdb: kanzure * r 2d10936 /web/templates/IndexTemplate.tmpl: index template
18:42 < kanzure> that's right, don't move and rewrite at the same time
18:43 < ybit> well that saves me some time tonight
18:43 < kanzure> be sure to run:
18:43 < kanzure> cheetah compile IndexTemplate
18:43 < kanzure> although i think web.py does that for you now :)
18:43 < ybit> Cheetah *
18:43 < kanzure> ?
18:44 < ybit> stupid caps sensitivity
18:44 < ybit> see the following for an example
18:44 < ybit> >>> import cheetah
18:44 < ybit> Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
18:44 < ybit> ImportError: No module named cheetah
18:44 < ybit> >>> import Cheetah
18:44 < ybit> >>> 
18:45 < kanzure> oh was i doing it wrong?
18:45 < kanzure> no i seem to say from Cheetah.Template import Template
18:45 < kanzure> cheetah has command line utilities, is what i was referring to
18:45 < ybit> you weren't, i was just correcting 18:43 < kanzure> cheetah compile IndexTemplate
18:45 < ybit> oh
18:45 < kanzure> no 
18:45 < kanzure> :)
18:45 < ybit> :P
18:46 < ybit> cheetah-compile
18:46 < kanzure> no
18:46 < kanzure> cheetah compile
18:46 < ybit> grr
18:46 < ybit> i have cheetah-compile
18:47 < ybit> $ cheetah-compile IndexTemplate.tmpl 
18:47 < ybit> Compiling IndexTemplate.tmpl -> IndexTemplate.py
18:47 < ybit> see it worked
18:47 < ybit> anywho
18:47 < katsmeow-afk> Optimizing the design of mechanical components
18:47 < katsmeow-afk> for reliability and cost
18:47 < ybit> ?
18:48 < kanzure> sounds like one of matt's papers
18:48 < katsmeow-afk> Robert Tryon*, Animesh Dey* and
18:48 < katsmeow-afk> Sankaran Mahadevan{
18:48 < katsmeow-afk> *VEXTEC Corporation, Brentwood, TN, USA.
18:48 < katsmeow-afk> {Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN, USA.
18:49 < ybit> my previous hometown
18:50 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.vextec.com/images/_downloads/pdf_Cost_Reliability_Optimization.pdf
18:50 < katsmeow-afk> if it helps design stuff that will stay together
18:51 < katsmeow-afk> it gets all calculussie 
18:53 < katsmeow-afk> not true:  The only other option to change the vibratory characteristics is to
18:53 < katsmeow-afk> change the frequency of the flow disturbance. This usually requires a fundamental
18:53 < katsmeow-afk> change in the entire system.
18:54 < katsmeow-afk> you can do interesting things by porting off some high pressure fromt he engine and directing it to the airflow over the or under the wing, as needed
18:55 < katsmeow-afk> thephysical wing remains unchanged, but thefuild dynamics atthe surface have been changed byt he injected air
18:55 < katsmeow-afk> dog, i am tired
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19:13 < genehacker> that vextec stuff is amazing
19:13 < genehacker> they're doing what we thought was impossible
19:14 < genehacker> predicting metal fatigue, how accurately I don't know
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19:25 < ybit> first four suggestions from google for finishing the phrase 'how-to': tie a tie', 'kiss', 'get pregnant', 'lose weight'
19:26 < ybit> was looking for howstuffworks
19:26 < ybit> and indeed it was on the list
19:27 < drazak> kanzure: your job is to make me a motor assisted kickwheel for when I come to texas
19:28 < kanzure> please don't come here
19:28 < drazak> oi?
19:28 < kanzure> :p
19:28 < drazak> 3 weeks ago you were inviting me
19:28 < kanzure> oh, are you coming now?
19:29 < kanzure> i can't keep track
19:29 < drazak> for college probably
19:29 < kanzure> i thought i said don't come to texas for uni?
19:29 < drazak> probably rice for uni
19:29 < drazak> and then mit for grad school
19:29 < drazak> orsome shit like that
19:29 < kanzure> yeah yeah, everyone says that
19:29 < ybit> 19:29 < drazak> and then mit for grad school
19:29 < drazak> anyway
19:30 < ybit> hehe, sounds like me when i was in high school
19:30 < drazak> your job is to make me a kickwheel that I can also  use a motor on
19:30 < drazak> ac motor
19:30 < kanzure> for pottery?
19:30 < katsmeow-afk> manhole cover from the street outside?
19:30 < drazak> yes
19:31 < drazak> I love kickwheels over electric wheels
19:31 < drazak> but more than 9lbs of clay and you're fucked on a kickwheel
19:31 < drazak> almost continually kicking a 150lb disk of cement for 10 minutes
19:32 < drazak> can't imagine where that would get tiring
19:32  * drazak eyerolls
19:33 -!- Noahj [n=noah@ip98-182-59-157.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:33 < drazak> some have a motor on a lever that by moving your foot down on the lever it moves the motor down, aka a class 3 lever, I think
19:34  * ybit was about to ask for the initial tutorial on making a screw if we should include making metal rods as well, but it may just be easier to walk a user through creating lego like structures using some type of rapid prototyping machine 
19:34 < drazak> if you wonder why I say to make one, it's because they cost like a grand
19:35 < katsmeow-afk> a pottry turntable?!
19:35 < drazak> a potters wheel costs like a grand
19:37 < katsmeow-afk> why?
19:37 < drazak> dunno
19:37 < genehacker> kanzure you haven't had any real engineering classes yet
19:37 < kanzure> ybit: i think legos are a good example of when you don't want to make stuff
19:37 < kanzure> genehacker: nope.
19:38 < kanzure> ybit: $0.01/brick over teh webs
19:38  * katsmeow-afk goes for a nap
19:38 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: kat nap?
19:38 < katsmeow-afk> korrect :-)
19:38 < kanzure> are you a kde-abuser?
19:38 < katsmeow-afk> nope
19:38 < ybit> a klindows klover?
19:38 < genehacker> anyway drazak that seems simple enough for you to make
19:38 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, i confess to pulling ubuntu off 2 puters and installing winxp onto them
19:39 < drazak> guess it's hard to make a flat piece of cement and a attach it to a rod of metal, and then to a dish of steel, then suspend it all on bearings
19:39 < genehacker> also kanzure, so you want to make piezoelectric stuff right?
19:39 < katsmeow-afk> it was a productivity issue, learning curves, etc
19:39 < ybit> poor machines
19:39 < katsmeow-afk> i saved one boot hd, prolly won'thelp any
19:39 < kanzure> genehacker: i wouldn't mind
19:40 < ybit> 19:37 < kanzure> ybit: i think legos are a good example of when you don't want to make stuff
19:40 < ybit> eh, clarify please
19:40 < genehacker> then get a car jack
19:40 < kanzure> ybit: they are cheap to buy 
19:40 < genehacker> a hydraulic one
19:40 < kanzure> well, when you buy them used
19:41 < genehacker> piezoelectric materials can be made by powder pressing
19:41 < ybit> http://www.yankodesign.com/images/design_news/2007/11/22/switch_me.jpg 
19:42 < ybit> so are screws, it's either or screws or legos if we are to demonstrate a working example of skdb
19:42 < ybit> minus first instance of 'or'
19:42 < genehacker> oh wait, you'd probably need a furnace too
19:42 < ybit> so which is it?
19:42 < genehacker> a furnace and a heat resistant jack
19:42 < kanzure> there is no working example..
19:43 < ybit> oh but there will be
19:43 < ybit> so which one :)
19:43 < drazak> well a kiln would be nice too kanzure, but I bet you can't make something that gets 2600F
19:43 < kanzure> no because you can only go too far down the rabbit hole before you'll find something fenn or i haven't implemented
19:43 < kanzure> like cold rolling
19:44 < fenn> ybit: re: yankodesign.com did you get there from eric's post i forwarded to OM?
19:44 < ybit> fenn: yeah i did
19:44 < kanzure> omamma
19:44 < genehacker> how about lego made from refractories?
19:44 < fenn> lego has to be flexible to stick together
19:45 < fenn> transparent PETE would be cool though
19:45 < genehacker> water cooled lego covered in refractories?
19:45 < ybit> and the futuristic audio car on yanko is sexy
19:45 < ybit> aldi*
19:45 < fenn> the one with no wheels?
19:45 < ybit> haha, yep
19:45 < genehacker> huh?
19:45 < genehacker> what are you talking about?
19:45 < fenn> yeah that just about sums up yankodesign
19:45 < ybit> yankodesign.com
19:46 < ybit> scroll downward for car with wheels that don't turn
19:46 < fenn> i dont see any wheels at all
19:46 < ybit> they are there though is what it says
19:46 < genehacker> hmmm....
19:46 < genehacker> that spiral can doesn't seem like such a good idea
19:46 < genehacker> to me
19:47 < ybit> yeah, looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen
19:47 < genehacker> no
19:47 < genehacker> I'm more worried about forming it
19:47 < genehacker> and the fact that it's a pressure vessel
19:48 < genehacker> also where's the suspension on that car?
19:48 < fenn> i hope cars of the future don't have steering wheels
19:48 < kanzure> and people
19:48 < kanzure> and combustion engines
19:48 < fenn> and people? the whole point is to move people around
19:48 < kanzure> oh, uhh
19:48 < ybit> :)
19:48 < fenn> you misanthrope
19:48 < kanzure> get off my lawn
19:48 < genehacker> I hope the car of the future is a space car
19:48 < kanzure> with lasers!
19:49 < kanzure> (and people)
19:49 < ybit> my only request is that it has an ejection seat in case the damn ai fscks up
19:49 < genehacker> that can fly from colony to space colony or even mars with a megawatt vasimir
19:49 < fenn> it looks like an apple computer case to me
19:49 < ybit> in that case a module to carry to my next destination after being ejected
19:49 < kanzure> ybit: so a matrioshka vehicle?
19:49 < genehacker> if your car has an ejection seat what happens if you eject in a tunnel?
19:50 < genehacker> I know, just like one of those things from the sonic games
19:50 < ybit> matryoshka, get it right! ;)
19:50 < kanzure> never
19:50 < fenn> 1MW isn't very much for space propulsion
19:50 < genehacker> I know
19:51 < ybit> not like one of the tradition ejection seats then
19:51 < ybit> traditional*
19:51 < ybit> legos or screws?
19:51 < genehacker> but it still gets you to mars FAST
19:51 < genehacker> screws
19:51 < genehacker> screws are adjustable
19:51 < ybit> well then you're fscked :P
19:52 < fenn> genehacker: 55 meter square of solar panels = 1MW
19:52 < genehacker> lego isn't fscking adjustable and it has lots of slop
19:52 < ybit> fenn, kanzure ..
19:52 < genehacker> yeah
19:52 < genehacker> 55 meter square is a lot right?
19:52 < fenn> no
19:52 < ybit> genehacker: your opinion counts too, just curious what they think :)
19:53 < ybit> my vote is with legos
19:53 < fenn> ybit: please repeat the question, in summary
19:53 < genehacker> my vote is with adjustiblocks
19:53 < genehacker> adjustable blocks
19:54 < ybit> for the first working example of skdb, do we want to demonstrate how to make screws or legos? fenn
19:54 < fenn> legos i guess
19:54 < fenn> we actually have cad models of those so it can be reprapped
19:54 < ybit> yup
19:55 < fenn> can't believe i spent a week trying to make a fucking helix
19:55  * fenn kicks opencascade
19:55 < kanzure> ow
19:55 < genehacker> legos are made by injection molding
19:55  * ybit msgs timschmidt
19:56 < kanzure> maybe tim can get his michigan group to do it
19:56 < genehacker> there is a machine on the 8th floor of ETC, the code is 7513
19:56 < ybit> kanzure: right
19:56 < kanzure> genehacker: huh that's the same code for the 6th floor
19:56 < genehacker> to the door
19:56 < genehacker> really?
19:56 < kanzure> or very close
19:56 < fenn> someone's already reprapped lego blocks, even "parametric" supposedly but i couldn't figure out how that worked or what it even meant
19:56 < genehacker> I forgot the code at the moment
19:56 < genehacker> sweet
19:56 < genehacker> but I could get it
19:57 < genehacker> however, puting in another die could be a pain
19:57 < fenn> 'a machine' == injection moulding machine?
19:57 < genehacker> yeah
19:57 < fenn> that's not gonna happen anyway
19:57 < genehacker> an injection molding machine
19:57 < fenn> making a mold is a pain in the ass
19:57 < genehacker> yeah
19:57 < genehacker> I know
19:58 < fenn> i wouldnt know how to do the square corners except by EDM
19:58 -!- kardan_ [n=kardan@p54BE547D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:58 < fenn> unless one of you brave soldiers can come up with how to do it, i'm going to say 3D printed is the only feasible option
19:59 < genehacker> hmmmm... though if we could get a mold, we could probably use the machine, my processing professor encourages us to smash pennies with the rolling mill
19:59 < genehacker> yeah
19:59 < fenn> guess one could make a silicone rubber mould from an existing lego, but it would probably suck (and you hav to have a lego brick already)
20:00 < genehacker> how about machining wax into the desired shape, then use that to make the silicone mold form
20:00 < fenn> i like the screw example because there are lots of ways to do it, but that's not so good for writing a tutorial
20:00 < genehacker> or possibly investment cast aluminum legos
20:02 < ybit> tim says he would be glad to print up a lego brick
20:03 < ybit> 19:53 <timschmidt> almost certainly
20:03 < ybit> 19:53 <timschmidt> I've almost got my machine printing, and I would be glad to.
20:03 < ybit> 19:53 <timschmidt> And I'm sure I could find other volunteers.
20:04 < kanzure> i guess we'd have to ship them a linux box with pythonocc already working :p
20:04 < kanzure> or just send them the files (yawn)
20:06 < kanzure> what i'm hacking on: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/repo-recover.py
20:09 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/cad/stepmodels/skdb_demo/
20:09 < ybit> i told time to take his pack
20:09 < fenn> ybit: feel free to add more models.. it's a pretty easy process
20:10 < fenn> there are only like 20 in step format though
20:10 < ybit> actually if you go up one directory, there are more 
20:10 < genehacker> how does one add stuff to skdb, are there instructions on how to do so?
20:10 < fenn> not really
20:11 < genehacker> ok then
20:11 < kanzure> copy pasta existing package, edit the hell out of it
20:11 < fenn> a lot of the code hasn't been written yet
20:11 < kanzure> ybit: probably not gear_pin1
20:11 < fenn> i'm not about to write a 'guide to writing code'
20:11 < fenn> but eventually you should be just writing data files and maybe tweaking some existing code
20:11 < genehacker> what if I want to make a new package or add a new cad model of surprise.step
20:11 < kanzure> "look! we made a cylinder thingy!"
20:11 < kanzure> genehacker: you drop the file into the folder
20:12 < genehacker> ok
20:12 < genehacker> that's it
20:12 < kanzure> and then reference it where-ever you want (like in data.yaml)
20:12 < kanzure> yep
20:12 < genehacker> ok good
20:12 < fenn> you know a 4x scale model lego set would be pretty funny
20:12 < fenn> like duplo but not
20:12 < kanzure> what about lego costumes?
20:12 < fenn> oh god
20:12 < fenn> i went as a lego brick once
20:12 < kanzure> "ok stay put for the next 2 hr"
20:13 < ybit> :P
20:13 < kanzure> have them cycle/tag out :)
20:13 < genehacker> how about even bigger legos than duplo?
20:13 < ybit> i'm going as a lego book scanner this year ;)
20:13 < genehacker> structural grade lego
20:13 < fenn> yeah someone wanted to make concrete legos to build houses
20:13 < ybit> i'll just read while everyone gets drunk ;)
20:13 < kanzure> maybe not costumes
20:13 < kanzure> but a large-scale set might be a better idea
20:14 < kanzure> precision will not be as much of an issue
20:14 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE57F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:14 < kanzure> but it will not be compatible with normal legos :(
20:14 < fenn> it's just hard to get enough detail on a reprap to make sure they stick together
20:14 < genehacker> a large scale technic set would be interesting
20:14 < kanzure> lego compatibility is probably important no?
20:14 < ybit> bah, normal legos, schmormal schmegos
20:14 < kanzure> schmenglish
20:14 < genehacker> perhaps legos should be redesigned to fractalate
20:15 < genehacker> all the way down
20:16 < ybit> maybe departing from the legos is a good thing, ours are open source at least, and can be promoted that way, maybe they'll take off too
20:16 < kanzure> why isn't there an "open source" lego yet?
20:16 < ybit> about to be
20:16 < kanzure> thousands of geekparents will totally dump cash on that
20:16 < genehacker> sounds like makerbeam or whatever the heck it is
20:16 < kanzure> especially if the price isn't artifically controlled by the dutch
20:17 < kanzure> "anyone can make these bricks."
20:17 < genehacker> dammit, there was this universal construction system I saw in a magazine awhile back that seems perfect to use
20:17 < kanzure> no random harry potter brick bullshit either
20:17 < genehacker> heh
20:19 < kanzure> can we use the lego dimensions that fenn has already put into skdb?
20:20 < ybit> are you asking for IP purposes [kanzure]
20:21 < kanzure> yes
20:21 < kanzure> wasn't the lego patent expired?
20:21 < kanzure> http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/17/judge-to-lego-your-p.html
20:23 < ybit> oh goody
20:24  * ybit needs a list of parts made with repraps
20:24 < ybit> ..so far
20:25 < ybit> huh, a door handle and a water filter
20:25 < kanzure> there are a lot of parts that have been gooed, ybit
20:26 < ybit> http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/ItemsMade
20:26 < ybit> can i has cad files?
20:27 < kanzure> lots of stl files on thingiverse
20:27 < ybit> "For a cornucopia of items that can be made in a RepRap, visit the Thingiverse Website, where the world's reprappers share designs. "
20:28 < fenn> a lot of lego stuff is still under patent (design patents)
20:29 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Group#Trademark_and_Patents
20:29 < fenn> which is more or less like copyright
20:31 < ybit> "Since the expiration of the last standing Lego patent in 1988, a number of companies have produced interlocking bricks that are similar to Lego bricks.  ...One such competitor is Coko, manufactured by Chinese company Tianjin Coko Toy Co., Ltd. In 2002, Lego Group Swiss subsidiary Interlego AG sued the company for copyright infringement. A trial court found many Coko bricks to be infringing; Coko was ordered to cease manufacture of the infringing brick
20:32 < ybit> Lego Group has attempted to trademark the "Lego Indicia", the studded appearance of the Lego brick, hoping to stop production of Mega Bloks. On May 24, 2002, the Federal Court of Canada dismissed the case, asserting the design is functional and therefore ineligible for trademark protection [4]. The Lego Group's appeal was dismissed by the Federal Court of Appeal on July 14, 2003 [5]. In October 2005, the Supreme Court ruled unanimously that "Trademark 
20:32 < kanzure> what if they aren't sold?
20:32 < ybit> that last paragraph puts us in the clear
20:32 < ybit> omniblocks :)
20:33  * ybit squats ;)
20:37 < fenn> i think it'd have to be "omniblox" to sufficiently enrage the japanese kids
20:38 < fenn> squatting and dumping on peoples' ideas just seems to go together
20:43 < ybit> google doesn't suggest 'blocks' when you type blox or vice-versa
20:44 < ybit> it does however suggest 'omnibox' since it's included in their chrome browser
20:46  * ybit is curious to know why apache suddenly starting handling what nginx was handling
20:46 < ybit> e.g. apache took control of http://ybit.ath.cx/cad/stepmodels/ but http://ybit.ath.cx/cad
20:47 < ybit> anyway, back to writing
21:22 < genehacker> argh
21:23 < genehacker> why the heck isn't my math working out
21:49 < kanzure> fenn are you downloading something?
21:49 < kanzure> or is it me?
21:49 < fenn> it's me, sorry
21:49 < kanzure> just making sure it's not my box becoming a zombie on a global zombienet
21:49 < fenn> "you could just include a 'shop' link" -> what's the problem wit this again?
21:50 < kanzure> is there a problem?
21:50 < fenn> heh i was trying to torrent "zombi" by goblin
21:50 < kanzure> use non-standard port please
21:50 < fenn> ybit wants to add yet another name
21:50 < ybit> what?
21:50 < ybit> lol
21:50 < fenn> omnifab
21:50 < ybit> oh
21:50 < kanzure> another name to omnifab?
21:50 < ybit> yeah, i was thinking that's what could happen
21:50 < ybit> no
21:51 < ybit> re: add a shop link, 21:50 < ybit> yeah, i was thinking that's what could happen
21:51 < ybit> kind of like a 'support what we're doing you lazy bastards' part of the site :)
21:51 < kanzure> uh
21:52 < ybit> ..not in those specific words ;)
21:52 < kanzure> i feel like you haven't listened to me
21:52 < kanzure> or maybe i haven't told you what i was originally thinking of for omnifab
21:52 < kanzure> but i find that hard to believe
21:52 < kanzure> so
21:52 < genehacker> so this is odd
21:52 < ybit> nope you haven't
21:52 < kanzure> wtf
21:52 < kanzure> jka;kjaja;jfafkak;
21:52 < ybit> af;fak;jlsdfajkl;a
21:52 < kanzure> some people are in fact lazy, yes
21:52 < fenn> quack!
21:52 < genehacker> my math looks like it works when a radian value is added to a degrees value
21:52 < kanzure> in these cases, people don't want to apt-get a screw from cosmic wankery jism,
21:52 < ybit> you told me that you are wanting to sell kits
21:53 < ybit> and that's about it
21:53 < kanzure> this analogy particular helps when you explain to people that "it's like an app store" (i always seem to be -_- etc. when saying that)
21:53 < kanzure> so, right, "buy it now" links and such all over the place
21:53 < ybit> good analogy
21:53 < kanzure> but also tuning to user preferences like "i never want to go more than 3 levels deep" or something
21:53 < kanzure> (deep into dependencies)
21:54 < kanzure> but also charging for API calls that physically deliver the machine, part, kit to the user's door
21:54 < kanzure> for instance some fablab might want to have a "buy room" where people go to select what they want on a computer screen
21:54 < kanzure> and by clicking on the icon of what they want (maybe on a website), it charges their account and it's shipped to their door somehow
21:55 < kanzure> i'm especially thinking of situations where you want to do this without human interaction, like ordering a thousand kits but not wanting to press "order" on each and every subcomponent
21:55 < kanzure> i'm not sure how to distinguish between OEM parts and kit parts yet though
21:55 < kanzure> i mean, kit parts are from OEMs
21:55 < kanzure> *are OEMs
21:55 < kanzure> but kits have more involved: extra documentation, instructions, parts, support, a fancy box (?)
21:55 < kanzure> whereas a part, i would expect to just show up sorta
21:56 < fenn> hum. why all the other stuff just for kits?
21:56 < kanzure> other stuff?
21:56 < fenn> isnt a kit just a package like anything else?
21:56 < kanzure> yes
21:56 < kanzure> but not to us
21:56 < kanzure> because we have to do some extra work on it
21:56 < kanzure> like physically put the parts in a box and ship it
21:57 < fenn> i thought the idea was to sell copies of the package
21:57 < kanzure> digital?
21:57 < fenn> physical
21:57 < kanzure> yes?
21:57 < fenn> ok so why 'extra documentation, instructions, parts support, box 'etc
21:57 < fenn> i'm not expecting more than ziploc bags
21:57 < fenn> and a flat-rate box
21:57 < kanzure> a kit might be a ziploc baggie with a flat-rate box and an extra CD or something
21:58 < kanzure> whereas an OEM part might be just the ziploc baggie :)
21:58 < kanzure> something like that
21:58 < fenn> bleh whatever
21:58 < kanzure> well then what's the point of calling it a kit?
21:58 < kanzure> "here are some parts, good luck"
21:58 < fenn> the instructions should be included with the package anyway
21:58 < kanzure> yeah but apparently not everyone wants to actually use skdb
21:58 < fenn> sfw
21:58 < kanzure> think of this as an ignorance tax
21:59 < fenn> if the packages suck then what's the point of doing anything at all?
21:59 < kanzure> even if the package rules, people like paul still don't care apparently
21:59 < fenn> well too bad for them
21:59 < kanzure> i'm lost
21:59 < kanzure> not everyone wants to install skdb
21:59 < fenn> ok so back to the agenda
21:59 < kanzure> therefore, selling kits is bad?
22:00 < fenn> so, do you need a business name?
22:00 < kanzure> i thought we are using omnifab?
22:00 < fenn> need not want
22:00 < fenn> ybit seems to think omnifab is just a name change
22:00 < ybit> no i don't
22:00 < kanzure> blargh?
22:00 < kanzure> synapses crossed
22:00 < fenn> ybit: then you're planning omnifab to be the commercial face of skdb?
22:01 < fenn> (which i think is terrible in the first place, to separate them)
22:01 < ybit> whoo, i feel like i'm not in that position to answer right now without speaking to Phreedom since he originally came up with the name. i'm willing to sale kits with omnifab 
22:01 < kanzure> uh
22:01 < kanzure> i thought the whole reason i was investigating names was to figure out a commercial front name for skdb?
22:02 < fenn> we control the skdb webpage whatever it will be called, so we can put buy buttons pointing to our paypal
22:02 < kanzure> yeah, isn't that the idea
22:02 < fenn> not taking advantage of that fact is dumb
22:02 < ybit> i don't see what not
22:02 < ybit> s/what/why
22:02 < fenn> ok so if you go and add another website off in the matrix somewhere, who is going to look at it?
22:02 < ybit> kanzure: it was the point of coming up with names
22:03 < ybit> i don't understand fenn.
22:03 < kanzure> fenn: don't worry about that, the good ol' bullshit/hype machine will take care of that
22:04 < fenn> ybit: ok so get your story straight about what omnifab is supposed to be
22:04 < fenn> and we can continue this later
22:04 < kanzure> i wasn't aware that we weren't allowed to use omnifab.org
22:04 < ybit> i don't see why omnifab can't have a purchase a kit place on it
22:04 < kanzure> but apparently Phreedom has his fingers in everything?
22:04 < kanzure> Phreedom: what are you doing here anyway?
22:04 < kanzure> i mean, you hardly talk
22:05 < fenn> i think it's like 4am russia time
22:05 < ybit> 3am in the ukraine*
22:05 < kanzure> prime time, then
22:05 < kanzure> no excuses :)
22:05 < ybit> :P
22:06 < ybit> anyway, Phreedom and i had discussed omnifab being the software which allows users to create and share parts
22:06 < kanzure> since when
22:06 < ybit> ...a year ago?
22:06 < kanzure> weren't you in here a year ago?
22:06 < ybit> yup
22:06 < fenn> was this before or after you learned of skdb?
22:06 < ybit> about the same time really
22:06 < fenn> hm
22:06 < kanzure> hm
22:06 < ybit> we were all thinking along the same lines
22:06 < kanzure> shoot the mind reader!
22:07  * fenn shoots
22:07 < kanzure> wait, wait
22:07 < kanzure> i'm the prime, i'm the prime
22:07 < fenn> decepticon!
22:07 < ybit> and i don't think there's a conflict in interest if omnifab is a place which promotes skdb and sales kits, because frankly right now, there isn't omnifab software
22:07 < kanzure> ybit: i think you're stepping on toes here
22:07 < kanzure> this is the problem with commercial operations anyway
22:08 < fenn> yeah, add money and open source development goes to shit
22:08 < ybit> right, i meant, phreedom and i haven't whipped up anything ourselves
22:08 < kanzure> but for some reason he gets to control it?
22:08 < ybit> his name idea, i just wanted to see what he thought
22:08 < kanzure> fenn: maybe we should look into the pinkarmy coop model?
22:08 < fenn> pinkarmy doesn't have a model
22:08 < kanzure> besides the fact that they don't do anything
22:08 < kanzure> co-op: people give you money
22:08 < kanzure> or something
22:09 < ybit> you give yourself money in a co-op
22:09 < fenn> i used to think it might be something interesting, but he just sort of waved his hands aroudn the issue of actually doing stuff
22:09 < kanzure> no but i'm talking about the membership system
22:09  * ybit wishes Phreedom would wake up, i really don't think he'll have a problem
22:09 < fenn> kanzure: i'm perfectly willing to put others' "buy it now" links up
22:09 < kanzure> there's an actual legal idea there
22:09 < kanzure> fenn: yeah but i don't want to do random work for a website that someone else owns or something
22:09 < fenn> sorry what? a co-op is a type of legal entity?
22:09 < kanzure> yeah
22:10 < kanzure> yes it has a particular model that i'm not well versed in, but it didn't sound evil
22:10 < ybit> and it works well
22:10 < fenn> and how does it deal with 500 people in 126 different countries?
22:10 < ybit> check out Emilia Romagna, they tend to do well even in recessions
22:11 < fenn> i've only ever heard of corporations and sole proprietorships
22:11 < ybit> and a large part of the business activity there is co-op
22:11 < kanzure> i wonder if my grandmother would like to show up at tim's group meetings
22:11 < kanzure> she lives in detroit
22:11 < ybit> that's one cool grandma
22:11 < fenn> you could have her snuggle in a camera/audio recorder
22:11 < kanzure> no kidding
22:11 < kanzure> gee thanks metafilter: http://ask.metafilter.com/82330/why-a-coop-business-model
22:12 < ybit> dammit, my days have been mixed up, today was supposed to be wiki wednesday :|
22:12 < ybit> when are we leaving for h+ summit, kanzure, fenn 
22:12 < ybit> which flight on friday?
22:12 < ybit> i'm purchasing the ticket this friday
22:12 < kanzure> umm
22:12 < kanzure> are you arriving in austin ever?
22:13  * ybit doesn't want to wait around while prices get jacked higher
22:13 < ybit> thursday
22:13 < fenn> which thursday?
22:13 < ybit> the third
22:13 < ybit> or something like that
22:13 < kanzure> you wanted travelocity?
22:13 < ybit> meh, straight from the airline, it's cheaper
22:14 < ybit> southwest and american airlines had the same prices
22:14 < ybit> @ $138 i believe
22:15 < kanzure> what's the destination airport?
22:15 < kanzure> JFA?
22:15 < kanzure> john wayne
22:15 < ybit> is that a choice?
22:15 < kanzure> no
22:15  * ybit was going LAX
22:15 < ybit> +with
22:16 < fenn> $138 is round trip?
22:17 < ybit> one way
22:17 < ybit> even if you specify multi-city, it's still $138
22:17 < fenn> what does multi-city mean?
22:17 < kanzure> i'm getting $200
22:19 < ybit> ah, it was $134 not $138
22:19 < ybit> i'm getting $100 now o.O
22:19 < ybit> i need to buy
22:19 < ybit> that's damn cheap
22:19 < ybit> southwest.com
22:19 < ybit> this is from aus to lax
22:19 < kanzure> southwest is giving me $100 too
22:20 < ybit> and no plane changes if you do the 7:25 departure
22:20 < fenn> i just get " We are currently unable to complete your request due to an undefined error."
22:20 < kanzure> ok, let's depart at 1:20 pm
22:20 < kanzure> ybit: you ok with that? there's a change in houston, but that doesn't suck much
22:21 < kanzure> in particular flights 3151 and 2873
22:21 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/images/2009-10-28-221524_1024x768_scrot.png fenn
22:21 < ybit> hmm, let me look
22:22 < fenn> what can i say, i'm a cheapass
22:22 < kanzure> fenn: does that sound good then? i'm assuming you want to fly at the same time
22:22 < ybit> kanzure: that's fine, but we may experience a slight delay with the plane change
22:23 < fenn> sure
22:23 < kanzure> fenn: can you manage to not experience an undefined error?
22:23 < ybit> i'm guessing you two are fine with that
22:23 < kanzure> 40min is nothing
22:24 < kanzure> that's 15min walking, 5min anxiety attack, 20min sitting around doing nothing
22:24 < ybit> alright, flight 3151 it is
22:24  * ybit purchases ticket now
22:24 < ybit> they didn't have these prices last time i checked
22:25 < kanzure> hm they let me add a suffix to my name? CEO, JD, PhD, PharmD, .. can i select all?
22:26 < ybit> wow, i'm getting $75 for a one way to austin o.O
22:28 < kanzure> "lower fares may be available through DING!"
22:29 < fenn> i hate websites
22:29 < kanzure> i hate people
22:29 < kanzure> together, we hate everything!
22:30 < fenn> is it possible to buy a one-way ticket?
22:31 < kanzure> yes
22:31 < kanzure> do you need a computer?
22:38 < bkero> You guys flying to Irvine?
22:39 < bkero> Nice price!
22:39 < bkero> That's cheaper than driving
22:50 < fenn> ok done
22:52 < kanzure> so what am i doing right now? 
23:05 < kanzure> no takers? really?
23:05 < kanzure> aren't i supposed to be writing code for something
23:09 < fenn> look at the todo list
23:09 < fenn> see if anything strikes your fancy
23:10 < fenn> if not, do the most awful boring thing on there (because otherwise nobody will ever do it)
23:11 < kanzure> yes but should i start something new or go back to captcha breaking, repo_recover, stl2web, web.py, XHTML/CSS bullshit, skdb inventory representation, skdb ode screw joint stuff, dedicated server cloud thingy for CAD modeling, ruby wordnet library thing, graphsynth.py unit tests, mcmaster-carr scraper, ..
23:11 < fenn> how the hell should i know
23:11 < kanzure> well how do other people know?
23:11 < fenn> they make gantt charts :)
23:12 < kanzure> how does that help?
23:12 < fenn> uh.. it doesnt
23:12 < kanzure> hm
23:12 < fenn> i'd like to see a CAD preview generator script
23:12 < kanzure> i thought i showed you it
23:13 < kanzure> iges2png, etc.
23:13 < fenn> i thought it didn't work for some reason
23:13 < kanzure> it works
23:13 < fenn> so is there a way to store those images without having to re-render everytime someone looks at the page?
23:13 < kanzure> yeah of course :)
23:14 < kanzure> btw they should be rendered when the models are uploaded/updated, not at view-time
23:14 < fenn> ok that makes sense
23:14 < fenn> how do you know a model has been uploaded?
23:14 < kanzure> last resort is hash checking, but i thought i made an "upload model" form a few days ago for this
23:14 < fenn> but you will be getting stuff in via git too
23:14 < kanzure> so when it goes through the system like this, it dumps it into dave's cloudthingr
23:15 < fenn> boo hiss
23:15 < kanzure> well it's better than blocking the process on the server
23:15 < fenn> i dont know what that means
23:15 < kanzure> well the problem is that it takes more than 10 seconds to generate the previews
23:15 < kanzure> so if you have 10 models being uploaded at once, that's a problem
23:16 < kanzure> but what if you offloaded that to never never land?
23:16 < fenn> run a cron job?
23:16 < kanzure> no
23:16 < kanzure> even with a cron job it would still take the server's resources
23:16 < fenn> what "cloud" server is going to have all the crap we need installed?
23:16 < kanzure> have i showed you vmware yet? i was playing around with it the other day
23:16 < kanzure> it turns out that you set up the box you want, as you want it, and that's that
23:17 < kanzure> but i haven't investigated it completely
23:17 < fenn> you know what, don't ever say "cloud" if you're actually trying to explain something
23:17 < kanzure> they are running images of machines on other people's computers
23:17 < fenn> unless it's about final fantasy 7
23:17 < kanzure> so anyway, i'm not a big cloud fan, but that's one option if things start slowing down
23:17 < fenn> premature optimization
23:18 < kanzure> ok then it definitely works for now :)
23:18 < fenn> show me a webpage with an automatically rendered preview of each file in the package
23:18 < fenn> based on the metadata i guess
23:18 < kanzure> oh we still don't have a package view page yet do we? hm okay
23:19 < fenn> also limit it to the first 5 files or something
23:19 < fenn> also i dunno how you're going to deal with auto generated geometry
23:19 < kanzure> now that i think about it you might be right about the problem. i haven't done any "smart" camera location settings
23:20 < kanzure> auto generated geometry like.. screw helices?
23:20 < fenn> yeah for all 9 bazillion screws
23:20 < fenn> maybe preview should be on each part's page
23:21 < ybit> "I just don't understand why
23:21 < ybit> you don't just make an SKDB project at Google Groups and an SKDB discussion
23:21 < ybit> list and ask people to join it? "
23:21 < kanzure> he's annoying
23:21 < ybit> there is skdb-support if you guys do want to go that route
23:21 < kanzure> bullshit, we've invited him in here more than once
23:21 < ybit> i had it in place as a mock-up for freefab.org
23:21 < kanzure> and shown him the git repo
23:21 < kanzure> he's just an ass or something :(
23:21 < kanzure> no matter how many :) smiley faces :) he :) puts in his :) emails :-)
23:23 < fenn> who are we talking about?
23:23 < kanzure> paul wrote ybit's quote
23:23 < fenn> ok so my mail is just slow
23:23 < kanzure> it's from earlier today
23:25 < fenn> oh hey it's a hijacked forwarded message heh
23:27 < kanzure> we're your local thread hijacking agency, please standby
23:29 < fenn> trim the bourgeois fat ruthelessly, comrades
23:31 < fenn> wordnet was around in 1988?
23:33 < fenn> 1985 even
23:37 < fenn> hmm TortoiseGit
23:37  * kanzure nods
23:38 < ybit> http://nihilarchitect.net/labsr/svgend.svg
23:38 < ybit> a webpage in svg, how cool
23:38 < kanzure> that's sick
23:38 < fenn> you mean totally awesome?
23:39 < kanzure> yes, in the totally awesome way
23:39 < ybit> no, as in 'dope' 
23:39 < fenn> i don't see any content though
23:39 < ybit> i think it's just a mockup
23:39 < fenn> oh weird
23:40  * ybit was afk
23:40 < fenn> it's using stylesheets?
23:40  * ybit purchased the ticket
23:40 < ybit> all 'open web standards'
23:40 < kanzure> fenn: did you purchase the same flight?
23:40 < fenn> 3151
23:41 < kanzure> cool.
23:41 < ybit> javascript,css, svg xslt transhofrm
23:42 < ybit> anyway, she's going to some dhtml flash stuff here soon :-\
23:43  * ybit is concerned about http://www.omnifabllc.com/OmniFAB%20about%20us.html and us starting a business with the same name
23:43 < ybit> ...though.. there are two other omnifab businesses as well
23:43 < ybit> the other two focus on sheet metal
23:43 < kanzure> did you read about coops?
23:44 < ybit> this one does it all, very much like my current employer except on a slightly larger scale (51000 sq ft and more employees i'm sure)
23:44 < ybit> oh yeah, co-op
23:44 < fenn> maybe you could call it lzybstrd.com
23:44 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-51-133.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:45 < ybit> thought about it 
23:45 < ybit> fenn, do you see any reason to be concerned about omnifab llc?
23:46 < ybit> kanzure doesn't mind it seems
23:47 < kanzure> what do i know
23:48 < ybit> right, kanzure, why don't you go form your own mailing list specifically for this skdb stuff, jeebus
23:48 < kanzure> i'm so terrible
23:49 < ybit> no :-) you're not ;) ;) :)
23:49  * ybit takes it to the bed
23:50 < kanzure> ?
23:50 < ybit> a play on 'take it to the house'
23:54 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-51-133.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:57 < genehacker2> *bashes head against weird gear profile again
23:58  * genehacker2 *bashes head against weird gear profile again