--- Day changed Thu Oct 29 2009
00:46 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-51-133.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
00:47 < Phreedom> kanzure, ybit: pong
00:48 < Phreedom> I tend to think that there must be a separate knowledge db/ apt-get like project, released under gpl-like license
00:49 < Phreedom> the project would consist of heavily parametrized blueprints of stuff and a piece of software to calculate the parameters eg pick suitable materials
00:50 < Phreedom> among these parameters would be price and time
00:50 < Phreedom> also you can expect some packages to be(temporarily) closed-source, like electronic parts
00:51 < Phreedom> this means that your software engine will sometimes decide that buying some part is the only way or the preferred way to build something
00:51 < Phreedom> and here the commercial stuff gets its way until we build a molecular assembler
00:53 < Phreedom> as a consequence some companies will offer their repositories of closed parts and cost/time estimation code for your hw apt-get to use
00:54 < Phreedom> all this really follows deb's model: multiple repositories, package priorities, different licences...
00:55 < Phreedom> this implies that there will be multiple commercial hw companies
00:55 < Phreedom> if you offer skdb or anything under non-free license, nobody will care. if you do and place artifical limits, its are forked as soon as its useful
00:56 < Phreedom> -are
00:56 < Phreedom> I was under impression that skdb was in early pre-alpha stage at best, so only the name of the database project is up to discussion
00:58 < Phreedom> and I thought that giving your project a nice name like omnifab is so much better than dfhk, or skdb or whatever :P
00:58 < Phreedom> really I wasn't prepared to discuss anything commercial
01:01 < Phreedom> the reasons are: skdb still doesn't exist so there's nothing to commercialize; there will be multiple and independent commercial manufacturers/part suppliers
01:01 < Phreedom> when tiem comes and skbd gets closer to being useful, you can start such a company and do it before anyone else does, right
01:02 < Phreedom> but I don't think you are discussing something like this now?
01:33 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-47-152.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:38 < fenn> Phreedom: that is 100% exactly what skdb was always about (all this commercialization bullshit is new)
01:39 < genehacker> whoa
01:39 < genehacker> I missed what phreedom said
01:39 < ybit> genehacker: ?
01:39 < fenn> Phreedom: i have no idea why it's being discussed now, before we even have a useful system
01:40 < ybit> i PMd you
01:40 < ybit> genehacker ^
01:40 < ybit> i'm just getting a name to work with on the site, that's why
01:40 < genehacker> ok got it
01:40 < fenn> can't we just call it kitapalooza or some crap
01:40 < fenn> then shut up and get back to work
01:42 < fenn> wasn't this the reason to get a marketing guy in the first place
01:42 < genehacker> fuck this marketing stuff
01:43 < genehacker> just get something that works
01:43 < fenn> thank you
01:43 < fenn> "If you’re 90 percent non-bogus and ten percent bogus, and you work with someone else who’s 90 percent non-bogus, you end up with a team that’s 81 percent non-bogus."
01:44 < genehacker> also I really wish I had more time to make .yaml's
01:44 < Phreedom> fenn: my point was that I thought I had come up with a nice name for the db and I didn't mind it being using for this. No contracts need to be signed, no strings attached since it's an open and free project
01:45 < fenn> ok
01:45 < ybit> 01:40 < fenn> can't we just call it kitapalooza or some crap
01:45 < ybit> works for me
01:45 < genehacker> also how useful a process would cylindrical upsetting be?
01:45 < ybit> oh and the part of 01:40 < fenn> then shut up and get back to work
01:46 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upset_forging#Upset_forging
01:46 < genehacker> IE taking a cylinder and smashing it into a less tall and wider cylinder
01:47 < genehacker> or doing the same to part of a cylinder
01:47 < fenn> cold heading is used for 99% of screws and bolts
01:47 < Phreedom> genehacker: I see you like very DIY-friendly technologies;)
01:47 < genehacker> ok then
01:48 < genehacker> sure I do
01:49 < genehacker> but I'm starting to think some things are impossible to diy
01:49 < genehacker> reasonably
01:50 < Phreedom> genehacker: *ATM ;)
01:50 < genehacker> not just at the moment
01:50 < Phreedom> and no you don't have to DIY everything. using nvidia proprietary drivers on linux is so much better than running M$ crap
01:51 < Phreedom> genehacker: you don't believe in the molecular assembly dairy tale?
01:51 < Phreedom> *fairy
01:51 < genehacker> are you going to have a 5000 ton press in your backyard
01:51 < Phreedom> grr
01:51 < Phreedom> you better believe in it. you can then start a religion and get a tax-free status
01:51 < genehacker> well, I took a look at it
01:51 < genehacker> it looks like it could work
01:51 < Phreedom> it will work someday
01:51 < Phreedom> and 5000 ton press isn't that huge
01:52 < Phreedom> also you foget about community ownership options
01:52 < Phreedom> even if you need such a press you don't need it everyday
01:52 < genehacker> anyway currently only the process for making diamond has been worked out
01:53 < Phreedom> genehacker: africans have been making diamonds for ages
01:53 < Phreedom> with hammers and axes :)
01:53 < genehacker> I'm doubtful if some of those cool nanobearings are buildable
01:53 < Phreedom> I\'m even doubtful they are needed
01:53 < Phreedom> genehacker: the largest obstacle to DIY things is electronics
01:53 < genehacker> but my problem is with bootstrapping the damn thing
01:54 < genehacker> electronics?
01:54 < Phreedom> ICs
01:54 < genehacker> pah chips are cheap
01:54 < Phreedom> and closed
01:54 < genehacker> plus how'd you make them?
01:54 < genehacker> I guess we could use E-beam litho
01:55 < Phreedom> single-electron transistors made from graphene. you know what you use to assemble this :)
01:55 < genehacker> but then again stuff like that is crazy high vacuum where you worry about helium leaking i
01:55 < fenn> i hope nanoscale self-assembled circuits work goodenough in 10 years
01:55 < genehacker> hmmm...
01:55 < genehacker> well there's also this:
01:55 < genehacker> http://nextbigfuture.com/
01:55 < fenn> you'll probably be bitching about where to get gold nanodots then
01:56 < genehacker> yeast coated in glass
01:56 < genehacker> made at room temperature
01:56 < Phreedom> either way this is wankery
01:56 < Phreedom> lets do something that's useful and can be done right now
01:56 < fenn> genehacker: that is so not impressive
01:56 < genehacker> why not use copper reducing proteins to make electronics
01:56 < genehacker> it's yeast covered in glass!
01:56 < Phreedom> genehacker: don't ask me. I don't know what you are talking ;)
01:57 < genehacker> yeah it is
01:57 < genehacker> ok
01:57 < Phreedom> *talking about
01:57 < genehacker> you know there may not even be a need for 5000 ton presses and whatnot if you have different materials
01:58 < Phreedom> most of the time you can work around these complex industrial processes
01:59 < Phreedom> it might be slower, more expensive but who cares?
01:59 < Phreedom> you can save on lawyers and secretaries to compensate for this
02:00 < Phreedom> industry often has 10 specialized processes instead of 1 generic because it's cheaper at their scales. it doesn't mean we have to mirror them
02:01 < genehacker> there are certain processes that are the only reasonable what to make things
02:01 < Phreedom> while it's absolutely ok to do e-beam litho using your STM, it's totally unacceptable to the industry
02:01 < Phreedom> not that many and really is it a big deal if commercial enterprises will still manufacture 5% of what you consume? ;)
02:02 < genehacker> for example in order to make light sheet metal car parts you have to use metal that has been strain hardened
02:03 < Phreedom> or you can instead build your car with different materials like carbon fiber coposite
02:03 < fenn> sheet metal car parts
02:03 < fenn> are you joking?
02:03 < genehacker> yes fenn sheet metal
02:03 < fenn> it's 2009
02:04 < Phreedom> or yeah just make it out of shit metal instead. it will be weaker, but you can repair it at home :)
02:04 < genehacker> metal sheet forming makes complex parts
02:04 < genehacker> for cheap
02:04 < genehacker> on carbon fiber
02:04 < fenn> i could think of about 90 other processes that have a superior end product and are 100x more DIY-friendly
02:05 < genehacker> for making certain carbon fiber things you have to press em' really hard with a heated press
02:05 < genehacker> as I learned yesterday
02:05 < fenn> why is that?
02:05 < Phreedom> we really should concentrate on doing the most with the least effort. not doing everything. and then try harder things
02:05 < fenn> yeah 80/20 principle
02:05 < genehacker> but then again I guess you could use prepreg or something
02:06 < Phreedom> you can expect that a DIY movement that can do 50% of stuff at home to greatly influence manufacturing ;)
02:06 < genehacker> you know a reprap capable of integrating fibers into parts would sorta moot the whole press issue or something
02:06 < Phreedom> not reprap but yeah, why not weave the fiber in place, coating it with epoxy on the go?
02:07 < genehacker> yeah
02:07 < genehacker> that is what I'm saying
02:07 < genehacker> dammit, why does carbon fiber have to be so expensive
02:07 < fenn> maybe you should switch to e-glass
02:07 < genehacker> what's that?
02:07 < fenn> or s-glass or whatever
02:08 < fenn> or even basalt fiber
02:08 < genehacker> how about we modify that one glass sponge
02:08 < fenn> carbon fiber is for weenie engineering students who don't do any independent research
02:08 < genehacker> did you do any?
02:09 < fenn> ffs just google 'basalt fiber'
02:09 < Phreedom> glass fibers are nice too and cheap
02:09 < genehacker> I know what basalt fiber is, and it's certainly an option
02:09 < fenn> the only reason carbon is expensive is the unpredictable nature of the military market
02:09 < Phreedom> although most of the cost of fiber composites comes from manual work and low volumes
02:09 < genehacker> durr everyone knows that
02:10 < fenn> so why bother if you don't need that last 2% of optimization
02:10 < fenn> (hint: you don't)
02:10 < genehacker> anyway the problem with glass fiber is when you want to make your own
02:10 < genehacker> basalt fiber might be okay though
02:10 < fenn> why is that a problem?
02:11 < genehacker> how cheap is cheap for glass fiber?
02:11 < fenn> the process goes like this: you make a block of silicone, burn the shit out of it, melt it, then drop it in a heated column
02:11 < genehacker> silicone?
02:11 < fenn> yup
02:11 < genehacker> source?
02:12 < fenn> guh. fuck you
02:12 < fenn> i'm finishing my book now
02:13 < genehacker> I've never heard of that process
02:13 < genehacker> I think I should stop talking
02:15 < Phreedom> genehacker: glass fiber is cheap enough to be used for heat insulation
02:15 < Phreedom> not in space mind you
02:16 < Phreedom> or it was used sometime ago
02:16 < Phreedom> probably less used now
02:16 < Phreedom> at least in buildings
02:16 < Phreedom> when you are dealing with higher temps, I believe it's still useful
02:16 < genehacker> okay
02:16 < genehacker> that's pretty cheap
02:17 < fenn> s-glass isn't that cheap
02:17 < fenn> it's mostly for airplanes
02:56 < fenn> uffda.. basalt fiber was first produced in 1923
03:01 < fenn> i wonder how much work goes into something like this 
03:01 < fenn> http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/10/augmented-reality-helps-marine.html
03:35 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-47-152.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:04 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220-253-55-191.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:16 < katsmeow-afk> you could prolly take over Somalia without a lot of opposition, if you could do so fast enough
07:16 < katsmeow-afk> that would give you land and uneducated workforce and ocean access
07:17 < marainein> and all the malaria you could eat
07:17 < katsmeow-afk> in my wildest dreams, i say let the robots do it
07:18 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, and yellow fever, dengue, and annoying flying bullets
07:19 < katsmeow-afk> they have solar power and cooling water and cheap land no one else wants, let the robots convert it to one huge sealed space, it's already useless for modern humans, so little loss there
07:19 < katsmeow-afk> small enclaves for existinghumans, naturally
07:20 < katsmeow-afk> sq mile parks, reserves, jungles, made better with technology and side effects of the robots' properity
07:21 < katsmeow-afk> clean drinking water fromthe ocean cooling water,  micro-managed farms, etc
07:22 < katsmeow-afk> just that keeping the humans alive wouldn't be the robots' primary attention, no more than it is the humans now
07:22 < katsmeow-afk> but condenced steam from cooling tower <shrug> free desalinated water
07:24 < katsmeow-afk> industries based on dirty tech, like lead, lithium, zinc, etc need a place to be that can be written off by the world, and they've already written off Somalia
07:24 < marainein> that's great. now you just have to sell the idea to the locals
07:24 < katsmeow-afk> the locals use less than 1% of the land, i imagine
07:25 < katsmeow-afk> and they are literally dying for improvements, like food and water and bullet filters
07:26 < katsmeow-afk> just a place to get out of the sun, like a bush that someone else isn't breaking down for firewood (not even able to *chop* it down)
07:27 < katsmeow-afk> uncontaminated water somewhere in a day's walking distance
07:27 < marainein> actually, if the locals raise cattle, i'd imagine they use a lot of the land
07:27 < marainein> why not pick a place with better neighbours?
07:27 < katsmeow-afk> the land is unproductive for cattle, that's a cultural thing
07:28 < katsmeow-afk> marainein, the point isn't neighbors, it's more like "neighbors? whatever!"
07:28 < Phreedom> lol
07:28 < katsmeow-afk> raising cattle is a means to an end: money and food
07:28 < katsmeow-afk> so provide other means
07:29 < katsmeow-afk> most African countries int hat area are world-wide aid drains, bottomless money holes
07:30 < katsmeow-afk> and atm, Somalia is said to not have a governemnt, it's effectively a land mass with no state status
07:31 < katsmeow-afk> you cold prolly a) buy it for 10cents acre all at once, or b) buyit for 10 cents an acre as long as the humans living on that acre will leave it for that price
07:32 < katsmeow-afk> eithe way, it's your's by imminent domain, and if you improve the locals with aux fallout of the technology, they won't complain
07:33 < katsmeow-afk> they'll come running and say "take over my land too, please!"
07:33 < katsmeow-afk> please and more pleas
07:34 < katsmeow-afk> "look! omnifab is making a new place a mile away, lets move there to enjoy the free water for our home and animals and garden!"
07:35 < katsmeow-afk> and free 100watt/hr of lites/nite, and maybe other perks, depending on howmuch you feel owning the  country without human revolt is worth
07:37 < Phreedom> :)
07:37 < Phreedom> katsmeow-afk: I like your neoimperialism
07:37 < katsmeow-afk> Rechargeable zinc-air batteries can store three times the energy of a lithium-ion battery.  Wednesday, October 28, 2009 :::::::::: i been trying to get my paws on these for years, even n non-rechargeable forms
07:38 < katsmeow-afk> Phreedom, i didn't really say anything about governing the humans, did i?
07:38 < Phreedom> how about reliability, toxicity, charge cycles
07:38 < Phreedom> katsmeow-afk: if you control their land, food, water...
07:38 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220-253-55-191.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
07:38 < katsmeow-afk> well, atm, most are squattrs with no food or water 
07:39 < katsmeow-afk> there's no gov, so no land titles. If the side effects of the land use is providing food and water as cheap byproducts or side effects, why not?
07:40 < katsmeow-afk> if the humans rejoice, allow, don't complain, and crime drops, why not?
07:40 < Phreedom> it will work for some time
07:40 < Phreedom> then people will demand more
07:40 < katsmeow-afk> naturally, there will be a short pacification interval
07:40 < Phreedom> and more and more
07:40 < Phreedom> it's not like they build the infrastructure themselves
07:41 < Phreedom> aaand why do you need so much land?
07:41 < Phreedom> you could buy some cheapass land in the us too
07:41 < katsmeow-afk> the land is cheap, the land is sand and rocks, build a wall like the isralies do, park ED209s or autotargetting Samsung miniguns on them, let peace happen inside
07:41 < Phreedom> yeah it would be much more expensive than africa, but only nominally
07:42 < katsmeow-afk> wher is land with unlimited water access cheap in the usa?
07:42 < Phreedom> since it'd be cheaper than anything you might build there
07:42 < Phreedom> some desert :)
07:42 < katsmeow-afk> unlimited water access
07:42 < Phreedom> why do you need unlimited water?
07:42 < katsmeow-afk> cooling, alt energy cycles, pacifying the natives who need water
07:43 < Phreedom> there are no natives in arizona :)
07:43 < katsmeow-afk> hell, most of the aquifers under the midwest are dry or pollluted now, but the land price is stillastronomically high, and there's the usa gov to deal with
07:44 < katsmeow-afk> for nearly any industrial process, you need water
07:44 < Phreedom> if you are prepared to defend yourself with guns and are ok with never leaving your premises, africa is indeed the land of freee
07:44 < katsmeow-afk> especially for food, bioenergy, liquid fuel making, etc, and then there's cheapness of international shipping
07:46 < katsmeow-afk> i imagine there's a lot of people in Africa who cannot afford guns, don't want guns, are tired of guns, and if you treat them nice will not shoot you, and will let you defend them from shooters
07:46 < katsmeow-afk> besides, the premise being robots to run things, what's a  bullet or two?
07:47 < katsmeow-afk> Somalia demands food aid, and medical aid from diseased water, they need the side effects of tech, and have the land to exchange for it
07:48 < katsmeow-afk> government-less land, let the robots build it, let the robots run it, let the humans drink the cooling water after it cools more ovrnite
07:49 < katsmeow-afk> you haveto defend anything you do with lawyers here, there you do it with Samsung miniguns at a distance,,, so what if the majority of the poeple will be your friends between those points?
07:50 < Phreedom> you have to defend anything of substance with lawyers
07:50 < Phreedom> you can keep your laptop
07:50 < katsmeow-afk> there's no courts in Somalia
07:50 < Phreedom> while over there anything you happen to have is a treasure
07:50 < Phreedom> I was talking to the us
07:51 < Phreedom> *about
07:51 < katsmeow-afk> i was talking about Somalia
07:51 < Phreedom> in somalia a typical us bum is a walking treasure
07:51 < Phreedom> oh and a gun that you carry to defend you is a treasure too;)
07:52 < katsmeow-afk> yep, so any industrial side effect you give away, is buying allegances
07:52 < Phreedom> there's a certain percentage of population that holds no allegiance
07:52 < katsmeow-afk> hell, even the shade from your factory walls can be a treasure there
07:52 < Phreedom> they take something if they can. even if it's detrimental to the society
07:52 < kanzure> hi
07:52 < katsmeow-afk> if they don't need it, praps they won't take it
07:53 < katsmeow-afk> and if yoou bring bolts, it's less portable
07:53 < katsmeow-afk> hi kanzure
07:53 < Phreedom> katsmeow-afk: but what you describe might make some sense for large-scale effort
07:53 < Phreedom> katsmeow-afk: you're yet to tell what huge thing you plan to manufacture
07:53 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, i did mean a *COUNTRY*
07:53 < Phreedom> perhaps a space elevator? ;)
07:54 < Phreedom> otherwise, really why bother owning a country?
07:54 < katsmeow-afk> i didn't go that far, no one will let me decide that anyhow
07:56 < kanzure> Phreedom: why haven't you contributed to skdb ever?
07:56 < kanzure> just wondering
07:56 < Phreedom> kanzure: time
07:56 < Phreedom> I'm tyring to break away from nepomuk
07:56 < Phreedom> in a constructive way I mean
07:57 < kanzure> despite what fenn might think we're really doing ok ("not bad")
07:57 < Phreedom> just to finish things that depend on me or things I can do so much better than anyone else
07:57 < kanzure> so when ybit gave us a domain name that happened to have strings attached to you,
07:57 < kanzure> you can imagine how upset i was :(
07:57 < Phreedom> kanzure: there are no "strings"
07:57 < Phreedom> but we need to agree on what's going to happen
07:58 < Phreedom> if you want a better name for skdb
07:58 < kanzure> no, that's not what's happening
07:58 < Phreedom> if skdb is released under a fossy license
07:58 < kanzure> sigh
07:58  * katsmeow-afk is more into data : frankly, i no longer know what Tiggr does or doesn't know, but i just counted bytes in one dir of *answered* how-when-why questions: 9.5gigabytes; even at 1000:1 noise factor, that's 9.5 megabytes of howto-when-why; and there's other dirs; bigger dirs; domain specific dirs
07:58 < Phreedom> then you can have the name
07:58 < kanzure> Phreedom: i feel like you don't actually follow us
07:58 < Phreedom> kanzure: quite possibly. I don't read the channel 100% of the time
07:58 < kanzure> ybit wants to rename skdb, that's true
07:58 < kanzure> but what's actually going on here is, as fenn said, is "commercial bullshit"
07:59 < katsmeow-afk> rename? or one name own the other?
07:59 < kanzure> no
07:59 < Phreedom> commercial bullshit without contracts, shares etc sounds strange ;)
07:59 < kanzure> that's why i'm asking you guys to not step on my toes until i get things worked out
07:59  * katsmeow-afk steps lightly
08:00 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: women excluded of course
08:00 < katsmeow-afk> poo
08:00 < katsmeow-afk> i can put on boots too
08:00 < kanzure> no thanks
08:00 < katsmeow-afk> k :-)
08:01 < Phreedom> kanzure: really I saw my name being mentioned along with omnifab so I decided to chime in and explain how I see this whole thing
08:01 < kanzure> right but it sounded like you didn't know the current position either
08:01 < katsmeow-afk> bend at ......
08:01 < kanzure> anyway, don't mind me, i'm just a "misanthrope" (i learned this yesterday)
08:02  * kanzure goes back to sleep
08:03 < katsmeow-afk> erg, people seriously mixing up "semantic" "Symantec" and "semitic"?
08:04 < katsmeow-afk> the web has become Alabama
08:04 < Phreedom> kanzure: if wikipedia's definition of misantropy is correct, then we all are misantropes :)
08:05 < katsmeow-afk> this is why i count on 1000:1 noise factor on all web content:
08:05 < katsmeow-afk> <meta meta name="description" content="Auto Mechanics">
08:05 < katsmeow-afk> <meta name="keywords" content="auto, mechanincs, wrench, sex, penis, tits, clit, boobs">
08:05 < katsmeow-afk> You see how it was abused. Any more advanced semantic tools will be similarly abused.
08:05 < katsmeow-afk> plus the overhead of thetags all over everything
08:05 < katsmeow-afk> and misspellings
08:22 < katsmeow-afk> ybit you are about to get weatherly pounded
09:06 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-104-251.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:16 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-104-251.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:32 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-104-251.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:43 -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-104-251.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:27 < katsmeow-afk> Birmingham Alabama mayor guilty on 64 counts of bribery and corruption, possible 800+ yrs in jail, awaiting sentencing
10:31 -!- superkuh [n=hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:51 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-104-251.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:52 -!- superkuh [n=hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:15 -!- ybit2 [i=449f8e42@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:24 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out]
12:25 -!- ybit2 [i=449f8e42@gateway/web/freenode/x-jduzeftgwpslynsn] has quit ["Page closed"]
12:42  * kanzure adds "fabbage engine" to the list
12:43 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/domain_ideas.txt
12:49 < fenn> fabroidal sounds like a n uncomfortable medical condition
12:51 < genehacker> it's not a condition
12:51 < fenn> shouldnt it be "stallman's russia" instead of "stalin's fablab"?
12:51 < genehacker> it could describe a condition
12:52 < fenn> kanzure: i have more crap to add, where is that wiki page dammit
12:52 < fenn> oh no we've been spammed
12:53 < fenn> see spammers have no problem coming up with domain names
12:53 < fenn> wrqqizetbrgo.com
12:55 < genehacker> we have a wiki?
12:56 < fenn> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/
12:59 < kanzure> fenn: http://adl.serveftp.org:8080
12:59 < kanzure> oh
12:59 < kanzure> hey why don't we have recaptcha installed on dokuwiki yet?
12:59 < kanzure> also why did i just set up hatta-wiki?
12:59 < genehacker> forgot about that
12:59 < genehacker> I thought you didn't like captchas?
12:59 < kanzure> i sometimes feel like the dokuwiki is more for the lab
13:00 < kanzure> genehacker: well, i don't, but it stops people like me from spamming websites
13:00 < kanzure> err
13:00 < kanzure> this is self-defeating in some sick way, i'm sure
13:01 < fenn> dokuwiki was only spammed once in 6 months.. that's not enough to bother with captchas
13:02 < fenn> ah dammit now there's two versions
13:02 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org:8080/name%20ideas
13:02 < fenn> what is this hatta wiki supposed to be for/
13:02 < kanzure> i thought you wanted me to set up a wiki?
13:02 < fenn> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb_names
13:02 < fenn> i thought you werent doing anything so i made a new page
13:02 < fenn> and fixed the spammage
13:02 < kanzure> ok. /me uses dokuwiki
13:03 < fenn> why does it need a new port anyway? that's whack
13:03 < kanzure> it's running using cherrypy's custom server at the moment
13:03 < kanzure> it would take me a minute more to reconfigure apache
13:03 < kanzure> i figured it wouldn't be worth it
13:03 < fenn> also it doesnt really seem to be a wiki
13:04 < kanzure> why's that
13:04 < fenn> oh it just changed behavior
13:04 < fenn> something about mime types i guess
13:04 < fenn> yeah the pages are plain text type
13:05 < fenn> even edit page
13:05 < fenn> well, some of them at least
13:05 < kanzure> i have to admit, hatta wiki is pretty close to being perfect for me
13:06 < kanzure> not quite there yet- for instance, the url scheme seems a little off
13:06 < kanzure> and it's not immediately obvious how someone else can clone the repository without asking me
13:06 < fenn> what you want page/edit instead of edit/page?
13:06 < kanzure> yes please
13:06 < fenn> does hatta work with git?
13:06 < kanzure> should be easy enough for me to fix, since i'm doing that for skdb/web/web.py anyway
13:06 < kanzure> hatta works with hg
13:06 < fenn> but does it work with git?
13:06 < kanzure> no, it imports mercurial
13:07 < kanzure> mercurial has a git plugin (on the command line) but it doesn't convert skdb.git
13:07 < fenn> what does 'git plugin' mean?
13:07 < fenn> it can import repos to hg format? or it can actually use a .git repo?
13:07  * fenn hates this crap
13:07 < kanzure> you drop some files in a ~/.hg/plugin/ and you can call hg clone git:// or hg clone skdb.git 
13:07 < kanzure> it does both
13:07 < kanzure> well, not really, hold on a sec
13:08 < kanzure> it can import a .git into a .hg 
13:08 < kanzure> but it can also allow a .hg to push to a .git
13:08 < fenn> hmm
13:08 < fenn> does it screw everything up is what i'm asking :)
13:08 < kanzure> i thought it sounded awesome until it totally failed on skdb.git because of some funky shit we were doing with git
13:08 < kanzure> like moving files around or something
13:08 < kanzure> it errored on skdb/doc/todo/TODO (which doesn't exist)
13:08 < fenn> hmm
13:09 < fenn> try iporting a clean git clone
13:09 < fenn> the repo on adl has a lot of dangling commits from all that --force stuff you did
13:09 < kanzure> my hdd has been slow to respond to "ls" and other commands today, any thoughts
13:09 < kanzure> btw i was trying it on my local working directory
13:09  * kanzure tries
13:10 < fenn> use ps -ef and see if anything unusual is running
13:10 < fenn> or top
13:10 < kanzure> why is firefox using half a gigabyte of RAM? it's only showing dokuwiki
13:10  * fenn guesses something is accessing disk and erasing the disk cache
13:11 < kanzure> 29367 kanzure   20   0  478m 260m  34m R   12  8.8 325:06.37 firefox-bin        
13:11 < kanzure> the order is virtual, res, shared
13:11 < katsmeow-afk> it does that, i just crash it and restart it, have it reload the urls/files
13:11 < kanzure> sigh
13:11 < kanzure> why do i use firefox
13:12 < katsmeow-afk> i find myself using IE8 more and more <sigh>
13:12 < kanzure> why isn't there a cli browser that has javascript support? that's all i really need
13:12 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: you are banned for the next 20 minutes
13:12 < kanzure> please just use wget
13:12 < katsmeow-afk> i use that too, when both browser fail  :-)
13:12 < katsmeow-afk> or i copy/paste links to wget
13:13 < genehacker> I use firefox and opera for double redundancy
13:13 < kanzure> how's opera working out for you?
13:13 < katsmeow-afk> i ROT13 everything twice too
13:13 < fenn> i tunnel everything through DNS
13:14 < kanzure> hm how do i make a bare repository again?
13:14 < fenn> init?
13:14 < kanzure> git init -b or something?
13:14 < kanzure> git init --bare
13:14 < fenn> (you shouldn't have to do that)
13:14 < kanzure> just a backup plan for when hg gclone inevitably fails again
13:14 < katsmeow-afk> i wanna know why there's $ stuck into the keybds in http://craphound.com/images/makerslaunch.jpg
13:14 < kanzure> creating bookmarks failed, do you have bookmarks enabled?
13:14 < kanzure> abort: Not a directory: /home/kanzure/sandbox/hg-testing/skdb-hg/doc/todo/TODO
13:15 < kanzure> i wonder why google hasn't released their own mail client yet
13:16 < fenn> *cough*gmail*cough*
13:17 < fenn> katsmeow-afk: there's gold in them thar junk hills
13:17 < fenn> (is the main theme, sorta)
13:19 < katsmeow-afk> o
13:20  * katsmeow-afk offers fenn 200 cabletvboxes
13:20  * fenn offers kat	a cakitty treat
13:21 < katsmeow-afk> in case you are counting, that's 1200 70ns 128k/256k drams, 200+ flash chips, 200+ 40watt switcher psu, 800 7seg led, etc
13:21 < kanzure> ah, adding [extensions]\nhgext.convert= to ~/.hgrc makes "hg convert skdb" work.
13:21 < katsmeow-afk> and none of it worth a damn
13:21 < kanzure> but this is a one-way conversion
13:22 < fenn> katsmeow-afk: maybe you can convince some kids in the philippines to take it off your hands
13:23 < katsmeow-afk> or India, or China
13:23 < katsmeow-afk> thing is, there's a few useful chips in these if someone needed them, like very lowpower 20mhz a/d convertors
13:24 < fenn> if only we had a comprehensive database of physical things and how they are made
13:24 < kanzure> ah i had to run "hg update" to get all of the files to show up
13:24 < katsmeow-afk> you missed what i said earlier?
13:24 < kanzure> ok. now what?
13:24 < kanzure> why did i do that
13:24 < fenn> why did you?
13:25 < kanzure> you asked if hatta works with git, and then i commented about the hg git conversion not working, and i decided to go try it out again
13:25 < fenn> is there any reason it can't work with git directly?
13:25 < kanzure> so yeah.
13:25 < kanzure> no, it's just not implemented
13:26 < fenn> i mean if we're going to have some arbitrary choice of dvcs we might as well make it a choice
13:26  * fenn realizes that was confusing
13:26 < fenn> hatta ought to be able to use git, is what i'm saying
13:27  * fenn reads more about hatta
13:27 < katsmeow-afk> "Monitoring Pressure in Milking Systems" .... duh,, is the cow getting bigger?
13:28 < fenn> so they don't bruise the tender nipples?
13:28 < kanzure> there's probably a drop off in milk pressure when your cows start going dry
13:29 < kanzure> fenn: i have a copy of hatta in adl:~/public_html/ (hatta.py) if you're interested
13:29 < kanzure> er, adl:~/public_html/wiki/hatta.py
13:29 < fenn> kanzure: what does hatta have to do with cherrypy?
13:29 < katsmeow-afk> turns out the article is about heat exchanger pressures and temperatures vs protiens plating out of the milk onto the exchanger surfaces
13:29 < kanzure> fenn: hatta uses cherrypy
13:30 < kanzure> er, actually, that's not entirely true
13:30 < katsmeow-afk> protiens covering up the sensors makes the thing runaway 
13:30 < kanzure> it uses cherrypy's server, but it mostly uses werkzeug
13:31 < fenn> seems like every time WSGI comes up i get confused
13:34 < katsmeow-afk> - Storage. 75 file cabinets and 27 tons of reports from 1965 were not needed.
13:36 < katsmeow-afk> i guess they kept the 75 file cabinets and 27 tons of reports from 1966
13:37 < kanzure> hatta wiki should use cherrypy and anyvc under the hood, instead of werkzeug and mercurial. (actually i dunno about werkzeug)
13:38  * kanzure secretly wants optfunc to work with cherrypy :)
13:38 < fenn> it doesnt/
13:39 < kanzure> it does, but only on the CLI side of things
13:39 < Phreedom> kanzure: I can't keep up with you guys. you are too spammy :(
13:40 < kanzure> what are we spamming about?
13:40 < Phreedom> kanzure: but if you decide something about the name let me know
13:40 < Phreedom> just about anything :)
13:40 < katsmeow-afk> the thing about spam is..........
13:40 < kanzure> all i asked is for you to not step on any toes until i get things worked out
13:40 < kanzure> i don't know how that's spam
13:41 < fenn> he just means channel activity
13:42 < Phreedom> catching up is almost impossible. I go pee and have several pages to read after I come back
13:42 < fenn> does anyvc have some sort of .. documentation, webpage, anything but a web interface to the source code/
13:42 < kanzure> no
13:43 < kanzure> there's documentation in the source, apparently, and a makefile, but i haven't run it yet
13:43 < kanzure> i was looking at the unit tests. they weren't helpful.
13:48 < kanzure> maybe one day there will be a bridge between all of the dcvses, but for now that doesn't look likely
13:52 < kanzure> *dvcses
13:58 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-104-251.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
14:20 < kanzure> fenn: maybe it would be better if you replied to sam's email instead of paul's
14:20 < kanzure> seeing as how sam asked about ISO standards for screws in skdb :)
14:21 < fenn> i'm slow, i was writing that email before sam's arrived
14:21 < fenn> do you have gnumeric installed? kspread looks kinda funky and im wondering what it's supposed to look like
14:21 < kanzure> i have openoffice.org installed
14:21 < fenn> from what i can tell it doesn't have any actual data like what pitch goes with what diameter
14:21 < fenn> just formulas
14:22 < kanzure> you want to come look?
15:08 < kanzure> fenn: btw loading the screw package fails due to something being wrong in the threads package (in threads.py)
15:10 < fenn> er, what exactly
15:10 < fenn> i'm looking at threads.py right now and i seem to have stopped halfway through rewriting it :)
15:11 < fenn> for example this is totally wrong assert self.form=="UN" and Unit(self.pitch).compatible('mm/rev')
15:13 < fenn> why did you do this? (in screw.py) thread = Thread(diameter='1mm',pitch='1rev/in')
15:13 < fenn> just leave it as None
15:13 < fenn> or raise a warning or something, don't just make up shit
15:14 < fenn> 'fail early and often'
15:16 < fenn> man everything takes so long
15:16  * fenn cries
15:17 < kanzure> the imports?
15:21 < CIA-23> skdb: fenn * r c34fe3d /packages/screw/screw.py: remove bogus instantiation
15:22 < fenn> well it took me an hour to respond to two emails
15:23 < kanzure> that might be a new record
15:23 < kanzure> usually you do 1/day
15:25 < kanzure> hm eugen asks if there's a way to do "atomically specified parts" in skdb. i sent him a follow-up asking if he means something like SMILES (etc.)
15:25 < kanzure> i don't know of any representations for nano-anything, to be honest, other than the chem stuff
15:26 < kanzure> er i guess nano isn't atom specific, sorry
15:27 < kanzure> ato :)
15:27 < fenn> there are a few nano-CAD programs
15:27 < kanzure> there was one that drexler did, right? you were playing around with it once.. how was it?
15:28 < kanzure> nanoCADengineer or something
15:28 < fenn> i spent a couple days trying to get nanoengineer-1 to compile, but ran out of time or something
15:28 < kanzure> fooey
15:28 < fenn> it's really complex
15:28 < fenn> like 15 external libraries
15:28 < fenn> their instructions are pretty good though
15:30 < CIA-23> skdb: fenn * r 5a9f69a /packages/screw/screw.py: check_compatibility function
15:30 < kanzure> what happened to regular old compatibility?
15:30 < fenn> i just turned it into a function
15:30 < fenn> i think it needs to be moved anyway
15:30 < kanzure> i thought Part.compatibility
15:30 < kanzure> oh wait, no, it was Interface.compatible
15:30 < fenn> i'm confused about how to separate screw and thread
15:30 < kanzure> sorry, don't mind me
15:30 < fenn> maybe check_compatibility is a bad name
15:31 < fenn> i was also thinking of calling it makes_sense
15:31 < kanzure> i was originally going to use makes_sense for checking if a newly instantiated <whatever> "makes sense"
15:31 < fenn> yeah that's the same idea
15:31 < kanzure> is this the same or different? (i don't care if you use it, but i just want to know)
15:31 < kanzure> ok cool
15:40 < fenn> i think i meant curve fitting, not symbolic regression
15:41 < fenn> there are a lot of standards that follow something like a linear function, sampled at regular intervals, then rounded to the nearest whatever
15:41 < fenn> sometimes they even tell you how they did it
15:42 < kanzure> does list.index() use the __eq__ of its members?
15:43 < fenn> try and see
15:43 < fenn> i don't know
15:43 < kanzure> yep
15:43 < kanzure> cool
15:51 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-159-127.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:55 -!- corvinius [n=anonymou@202.20.3.32] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:55 < kanzure> hello corvinius 
15:55 < corvinius> hi kanzure 
15:56  * kanzure is hacking at cherrypy
15:56 < corvinius> cherrypy? what is that?
15:57 < kanzure> highly pythonic web framework, basically
15:57 < corvinius> nice
15:58 < corvinius> i'm working on rails, on this project management software (redmine) for my job
15:58 < corvinius> i'm customizing it for our need
15:58 < corvinius> z
16:21 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-159-127.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:32 < ybit> link to nanoCAD mailing list archive?
16:48 < ybit> http://sourceforge.net/projects/fungimol/
16:48 < ybit> "Fungimol is a free nanocad, that is, a free system for doingcomputer aided design of molecular-scale machines."
16:48 < ybit> http://www.fungible.com/fungimol/
16:48 < ybit> Fungimol is an extensible system for designing atomic-scale objects. The intent is to eventually extend it to be a useful system for doing molecular nanotechnology design work. At the moment it's a PDB file viewer and Buckminsterfullerine editor. 
16:49 < ybit> probably old, haven't looked
17:02 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: katsmeow-afk, kardan_, drazak, splicer, mage2, boogles, CIA-23, corvinius, Utopiah, Overand,  (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
17:03 -!- Netsplit over, joins: splicer, corvinius, flamoot, Overand, mage2
17:04 -!- Netsplit over, joins: kardan_, drazak, Utopiah, zvader, nchaimov, katsmeow-afk, CIA-23, chizu, boogles
17:08 < ybit> shocking study of japanese wives (2005) http://www.boingboing.net/2005/12/15/how_soon_after_marri.html
17:10 < ybit> nanoCAD mailing list archive is non-existant, not even on the creator's homepage
17:34 < kanzure> yay for david cary
17:34 < kanzure> nice to see he's not dead
17:34 < kanzure> superkuh: have you been able to figure out who david cary is yet?
17:35 < kanzure> this guy: http://www.rdrop.com/~cary/html/idea_space.html
17:39 < superkuh> I don't remember reading the name previous to this date.
17:44 -!- tyson_ [n=tyson@68-114-130-93.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:44 < kanzure> hello tyson_ 
17:44 < tyson_> Ah, hello
17:44 < tyson_> Ill be honest i cant stay long
17:44 < tyson_> i have to pack and get drive into nashville for my flight
17:44 < tyson_> hello everyone
17:45 < kanzure> i saw a flock of green parrots outside
17:45 < tyson_> where are you?
17:46 < kanzure> austin, texas
17:46 < tyson_> Huh, not exactly parrot country
17:46 < tyson_> but i suppose it will serve
17:46 < tyson_> just dont ex them
17:46 < kanzure> that's what's so confusing
17:47 < kanzure> why would it happen right after we were talking about exing parrots?
17:47 < tyson_> synchronicity
17:50 < tyson_> ok
17:50 < tyson_> well i need to stop by the grocery store
17:50 < tyson_> i need more cat food
17:50 < tyson_> if Rufus isn't going to devour the house he will need a larger dish
17:50 < tyson_> so
17:50 < tyson_> ttyl
17:58 < ybit> tyson_: where are you?
17:58 < ybit> somewhere in tn it looks like
18:00 < fenn> lion kimbro is associated with david cary?
18:01 < fenn> based on my reading of http://www.communitywiki.org/en/TerseWriting
18:02 < fenn> actually a lot of those names on the right look familiar
18:05 < kanzure> PatrickAnderson haha
18:05 < kanzure> SamRose.. hm. yeah
18:05 < kanzure> somehow i don't think this is the one we know: http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?PatrickAnderson
18:05 < kanzure> wait, no
18:16 < fenn> shrug
18:16 < fenn> also thomas kalka and bayle shanks
18:18 < kanzure> is thomas kalka the emc thomas that i should know by now?
18:18 < fenn> maybe?
18:31 < ybit> fenn: you'll have to rent a car if we are to get from lax to irvine
18:31 < ybit> i'm not 25 yet
18:32 < ybit> and neither is bryan, even though the beard may fool others
18:32 < ybit> which means you'll need your credit/debit card and other stuff that i will have to call and ask about
18:32 < fenn> hum
18:32 < fenn> i guess i would need a license and car insurance too
18:35 < kanzure> why do we need to rent a car?
18:35 < kanzure> anyone in LA?
18:35 < ybit> kanzure: that was suggested to me 
18:35 < ybit> talking to lax rent-a-car right now
18:36 < ybit> enterpise rent-a-car
18:36 < kanzure> i'm sure they'd recommend themselves even if you had to walk one block
18:37 < ybit> three days with full protection and tax: $274.14, $27.97 for full insurance, and we pay for gas
18:37 < ybit> more than the flight there
18:37 < ybit> that's for renting it friday through monday
18:38 < kanzure> no thanks
18:39  * ybit wonders if hunter would be willing to drive us there and back for about $60
18:39 < ybit> taxi is more expensive than rent-a-car
18:39 < fenn> who is hunter?
18:39 < ybit> my friend in malibue, we traveled playing baseball for several years
18:39 < ybit> malibu
18:40 < fenn> "It is also possible to take the Metro Rail train from LAX to LA Union Station in Los Angeles, and then transfer either to an Amtrak or Metrolink train which will get you down to Irvine."
18:40 < ybit> he's uber christian, but, it's cheaper than having to rent a car
18:40 < kanzure> there's also a bus
18:41 < fenn> how far are we talkin about anyway?
18:41 < kanzure> 40 miles
18:41 < ybit> 50mins away
18:41 < fenn> what's the hotel again? sheraton?
18:43 < ybit> http://www.lawa.org/welcome_LAX.aspx?id=292
18:43 < ybit> i don't think it's sheraton
18:43 < kanzure> ybit: google maps suggests something way cheaper
18:43 < drazak> I might go to irvine
18:43 < ybit> that bus ride could get us back to lax from irvine, not sure about from lax to irvine though
18:44 < kanzure> ybit: why are you so intent on paying so much money to go 40 miles?
18:44 < kanzure> $120? 
18:44  * ybit isn't, it was just recommended to me from people i've talked to today who have been there
18:44 < kanzure> sorry, $120 is crazy
18:44 < ybit> it being rent-a-car
18:44 < ybit> yeah
18:44 < ybit> i glanced @ $7
18:45 < kanzure> rent-a-car for $274 is also silly
18:45 < kanzure> oh, $7?
18:45 < ybit> wait, i was right, it's $7
18:45 < ybit> so that's the way to go on monday
18:45 < ybit> drazak: if you are serious, we need details if you plan on rooming with us
18:45 < ybit> s/details/confirmation
18:46 < drazak> ybit: for school
18:46 < drazak> UC irvine
18:46 < ybit> :P
18:46 < ybit> okay
18:46 < fenn> google suggests 2 trains and 4 buses
18:46 < fenn> (in series)
18:46 < ybit> i considered that school, i considered a lot of places and stayed home, probably not the greatest decision on my part, anywho..
18:47 < ybit> http://www.primetimeshuttle.com/
18:48 < fenn> yeah i think one of the shuttles is best
18:48 < bkero> Don't go to school in LA.
18:50 < drazak> why not?
18:51 < bkero> LA sucks, sometime around the early 2000's, the UC system reached critical mass, and stopped giving a shit.
18:51 < ybit> it's $69 total for all of us from lax to irvine with the prime time shuttle, fenn, kanzure 
18:51 < bkero> To your professors you're just a number.  It's almost impossible to get to know them.
18:51 < drazak> bkero: eh
18:52 < bkero> My school has around 11,000 students.  I'm on a first name basis with almost all of professors in the computer science department.
18:52 < ybit> drazak: if i had to do it over, i'd say pick a school where they allow you to pick your course curriculum, self-directed study.. there was a school where your last 1.5 years was your own project, which is neat
18:52 < kanzure> what happened to the $7/ride shuttle
18:52 < ybit> hampshire college, that's it
18:53 < drazak> nah
18:53 < ybit> kanzure: that's from irvine to lax
18:53 < ybit> we need to get to irvine
18:53 < kanzure> the bus doesn't go back?
18:53 < fenn> one way ticket to HELL!
18:53 < ybit> not from what i gathered, will look again
18:53 < ybit> hampshire college, that's the name of the school, drazak 
18:53 < ybit> it's pretty neat
18:53 < kanzure> conservation of buses, ybit
18:53 < drazak> ybit: no thanks
18:54 < ybit> drazak: and you are allowed to visit other schools, amherst and umass 
18:54 < ybit> s/visit/take classes at
18:54 < ybit> *shrug*
18:56 < ybit> the flyaway shuttle bus takes you to the union station
18:56  * ybit checks to see if union station can get you to irivine
18:58 -!- kardan_ [n=kardan@p54BE547D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
18:58 < fenn> totally stupid that the train doesn't go to the airport
18:58 < ybit> $14 from lax to irv at amtrak
18:58 < fenn> eh?
18:58 < ybit> plus the $7 shuttle ride to union station
18:59 < fenn> oh
18:59 < ybit> so we're looking @ ~$25 to get to irvine
18:59 < fenn> that sounds not too bad
18:59 < ybit> and we may need to schedule ahead just to make sure we get the tickets
18:59 < ybit> on monday, it's about ~$10
19:00 < kanzure> do we need to pay to reserve?
19:00 < ybit> looking @ http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/amtrak
19:00 < ybit> no, it's like a plane tickets
19:01 < kanzure> lame
19:01 < ybit> s/a//
19:02 < ybit> might be useful to have on the netbook/lappy: http://www.lawa.org/uploadedimages/lax/images/GT_mapF.gif
19:02 < fenn> print it out
19:02 < fenn> do it now! i command you
19:03 < ybit> me? never!
19:04  * ybit reaches for strages kiddle
19:04 < ybit> er, kindle*
19:05 < fenn> there is also a $25 "flyaway bus" straight from the airport
19:07 < ybit> that's the shuttle i was talking about
19:07 < ybit> it's $7 from what i recall looking at
19:07 < fenn> no $25 to irvine
19:08 < fenn> http://www.lawa.org/uploadedImages/LAX/Flyaway/IrvineFaresChartFINAL.JPG
19:08 < ybit> that works, let's do that
19:11 < ybit> to and from irvine, $25 each way, so $50 for transportation. you pay when you get one the bus
19:12 < ybit> just called
19:12 < ybit> now on to hattit
19:12 < fenn> good old last mile problem
19:12 < fenn> what's hattit?
19:12 < ybit> are we going to use hattit?
19:12 < ybit> the mercurial wiki
19:12 < fenn> hatta
19:12 < kanzure> hatta-wiki
19:13 < ybit> yeah, that
19:13 < kanzure> jason morrison likes to claim he "geeks out" but i don't trust him
19:13 < ybit> i was looking at it during my break today @ work
19:13 < ybit> it's setup on my comp here
19:13 < kanzure> (referring to his latest thread and his lack of understanding that an xml-tweeting thermocycler is not news)
19:13 < fenn> god i wish twitter would hurry up and die
19:13 < ybit> mind if we just stick it into the stack for the time being so we have a wiki?
19:14 < kanzure> what's wrong with dokuwiki?
19:14 < kanzure> the installed dokuwiki i mean
19:14 < fenn> nothing
19:14 < ybit> can you git-clone yourdokuwiki?
19:14 < fenn> no
19:14 < ybit> oh
19:14 < kanzure> nope
19:14 < kanzure> "yeah let's get excited about lab instruments hosting their own RSS feeds!"
19:14 < ybit> i thought we were going for a vc wiki, one where you edit a text-file as opposed to having to open a browser to edit a file
19:15 < kanzure> "but jason, wouldn't you rather want to do something more geeky than RSS?"
19:15 < kanzure> "no! rss is the ultimate!"
19:15  * ybit whips out his ant farm and waves it in the air for the rss feeds, w00t
19:15 < fenn> well rss would be good for non-critical sensor alarms
19:15 < kanzure> no, it should push messages somewhere else
19:15 < fenn> 'humidity is up in the greenhouse'
19:15 < kanzure> i'd rather not have an rss feed hosted on a little chip somewhere
19:15 < kanzure> why not just have it push messages every once in a while?
19:16 < ybit> 19:14 < ybit> i thought we were going for a vc wiki, one where you edit a text-file as opposed to having to open a browser to edit a file
19:16 < kanzure> that way, if it dies, you have the messages sitting elsewhere
19:16 < kanzure> ybit: yes that's still the plan
19:16 < fenn> hm ok i have no idea how rss works, nevermind
19:16 < ybit> so why not use hatta?
19:16 < kanzure> fenn just wanted to put domain_ideas.txt 
19:16 < kanzure> on a wiki
19:16 < kanzure> because it's mercurial, mainly
19:16 < kanzure> fenn: look at any rss feed. at the xml markup.
19:16 < ybit> because it has troubles with skdb.py
19:16 < kanzure> you query a web server, it spits out xml
19:16 < fenn> ybit: you can edit dokuwiki pages from the back end, they're just text files
19:17 < kanzure> fenn: but the dokuwiki revision control system is custom or somesuch
19:17 < fenn> ok let's not confuse unrelated issues
19:18 < kanzure> yeah but how would you commit if you edited their flatfiles
19:18 < kanzure> just wondering
19:19 < fenn> uh.. i think it just says 'edited from backend' or something
19:19 < fenn> actually i think it obliterates the version history
19:19 < kanzure> yikes
19:20 < fenn> anyway.. at least it's not some awful xml sql database dump
19:24 < ybit> where'd the lego .stp files come from?
19:24 < kanzure> national design repositoryt
19:24 < ybit> fart
19:24 < kanzure> i refuse
19:24 < ybit> :)
19:24 < ybit> kanzure is more shy than japanese wives 
19:25 < kanzure> they are valuable
19:26 < ybit> have we had discussions previously on auto-generation of cad files?
19:26  * kanzure nods
19:26 < fenn> i think it was sort of taken for granted
19:26 < kanzure> you're only grumpy because occ doesn't want to draw your helices
19:27 < kanzure> there's a parametric demo in pythonOCC somewhere
19:27 < kanzure> using sympy to control the sizes
19:27 < kanzure> ybit: unless you mean something else? like deciding which shapes to use?
19:28 < fenn> yeah but it's a lamesauce example
19:28 < kanzure> was it just a prism or something?
19:29 < fenn> and you have to have all that other crap installed so i never actually tried it
19:29 < fenn> (also more or less useless outside of an interactive UI cad program)
19:29 < kanzure> me either :)
19:29 < fenn> wtf is up with this connection
19:29 < kanzure> i seem to be ok
19:29 < ybit> i am raping it, that's what
19:30 < kanzure> thank you and welcome to "guess your rapist"
19:30 < ybit> :P
19:30 < kanzure> this week's rapist is short, self-described pipsqueak, and running on a 56k line out of alabama
19:30 < fenn> obviously a product of his environment
19:32 < ybit> short?
19:32 < kanzure> yes, short
19:32 < ybit> no no, i'm a tall mofo
19:32 < kanzure> see? every mofo is from alabama
19:32 < ybit> so i guess it isn't me.. odd, there's another server rapist in the area...
19:33 < fenn> hide your servers!
19:33 < kanzure> lock the firewalls!
19:33 < ybit> take it like men dammit
19:35 < ybit> linux cam software?
19:35 < ybit> what were the plans for that.
19:36 < kanzure> emc?
19:36 < ybit> automatic g-code generation from cad files
19:36 < ybit> oh, no. emc doesn't do that
19:40 < ybit> andypugh from #emc thinks heekscnc might
19:41 < fenn> yes
19:43 < fenn> so pycam is not bad
19:43 < fenn> that's what heekscnc uses
19:43 < ybit> aha
19:44 < fenn> it's sorta slow; i think it could be fixed by rewriting the dropcutter function in C
19:44 < fenn> anders was going to do that but flaked out
19:44 < kanzure> sandberg?
19:44 < fenn> wallins
19:44 < kanzure> aw.
19:44 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE547D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:44 < fenn> i'd be surprised if sandberg were even thinking about anything so concrete
19:49 < fenn> this is the kind of crap i grew up with http://www.macrovu.com/image/VLBkimg/vlbkwhtisvlpict.gif
19:51 < fenn> that was probably done in macdraw and imported into hypercard
19:57 < ybit> http://code.google.com/p/pycam/wiki/PythonComputerVision :: not the python i just downloaded from sf
19:57 < ybit> s/python/pycam
19:58 < fenn> that's dumb. why didn't they call it pycv?
19:58 -!- kardan_ [n=kardan@p54BE56FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:58 < ybit> pycam only imports stl
19:58 < fenn> yes, it only works on triangles
19:58 < ybit> -_-
19:58 < fenn> it's more for continuous surfaces than highly process specific geometry
19:59 -!- kardan| [n=kardan@p54BE547D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
19:59 < ybit> so what else is on the list?
19:59 < ybit> aside from pycam
19:59 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-35-235.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:59 < fenn> do you really want a list?
19:59 < ybit> that'd be nice
20:00  * fenn thinks once an author's books sell for $1 on amazon they ought to just release the damn thing for free
20:00 < ybit> fenn: do you have a list?
20:00 < fenn> hang on, this connection takes forever to do anything
20:01 < fenn> you can probably get there faster than me
20:01 < ybit> okay
20:01 < fenn> go to wiki.linuxcnc.org and the page named Cam
20:01 < fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
20:01 < ybit> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
20:01 < ybit> grr, your connection is still faster than my 56k ;)
20:02 < ybit> dxf, stl, stp... /me wonders how easy it is to convert between each
20:03 < kanzure> it's not
20:03 < kanzure> are you looking for something to do?
20:04 < fenn> so of the stuff on that list, dxf2gcode, inkscape biarc, aptos, mesh2hmap/image-to-gcode
20:04 < fenn> those are the most useful and reliable
20:05 < fenn> (not counting heekscnc stuff)
20:06 < fenn> VectorSection is a cool idea, dunno if it ever went anywhere
20:06 < fenn> The goal is to be able to convert between and access most vector graphic file formats such as dxf, dwg, dgn, svg, pdf, ps, jpg, png, ogr, ifc.
20:06 < fenn> i'm not sure jpg and png really belong in that list
20:07 < ybit> 20:03 < kanzure> are you looking for something to do?
20:09  * ybit was afk just now. will be for another 20 mins in about 2 mins... but well, i'm working it out, a tutorial for the new skdb user. which will also help me in the process of what to work on after the site is templated 
20:09 < ybit> 20:06 < fenn> i'm not sure jpg and png really belong in that list
20:09 < ybit> me either
20:10 < ybit> 2d representations of 3d models, that doesn't sound like fun
20:10 < kanzure> there's a big juicy todo list in the skdb/doc/ folder
20:10 < fenn> the neato inspiring documentation for rhizopod (formerly vectorsection) sees to have disappeared
20:10 < fenn> nah dxf always was a 2D format
20:10 < fenn> dwg too
20:10 < fenn> then they hacked in 3d support some time in the 90's
20:12 < fenn> "There are even more ways to help with VectorSection than with typical open-source projects. If you can write code, you can write a connector. It doesn't matter what language you know. "
20:13 < fenn> "Q:  There should be a C API."
20:13 < fenn> "A:  That's not a question."
20:14 < drazak> haha
20:16 < fenn> hey where did this come from http://openscad.org/
20:19 < ybit> wow, that's not bad, and a common license too
20:19 < ybit> 20:10 < kanzure> there's a big juicy todo list in the skdb/doc/ folder
20:19 < ybit> yeah, i've already went over it
20:19 < ybit> it is juicy and helpful
20:20 < kanzure> seems to only export STL
20:21 < fenn> i think it is mostly just opencsg
20:21 < fenn> with a goofy language tacked on
20:21 < kanzure> what's with the goofy lang, yeah
20:22 < fenn> maybe i should make python bindings to opencsg
20:23 < kanzure> he mentions "structured terminal forms library" hrm
20:24 -!- tyson_ [n=tyson@68-114-130-93.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:24 < kanzure> heh: http://www.clifford.at/fun/
20:27 < fenn> yes looks absolutely rambunctious~
20:36 < ybit> why was the GEOOM Salome package left out of the pythonocc install instructions on http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc
20:37 < kanzure> GEOM
20:37 < kanzure> the -NO_GEOM is to make it work
20:37 < kanzure> there's sgeom.sf.net floating around out there but i don't remember how to make that compatible
20:39 < ybit> er, yeah, i meant geom, maybe if i switched over to a dvorak i would be more conscious of what i press
20:40 < ybit> so why not geom?
20:40 < ybit> too much hassle to get it working?
20:43 < kanzure> joseph jackson might give us a ride from LA
20:44 < ybit> that would be nice
20:44  * fenn finds this amusing http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/user/inddes/open.gif
20:45 < fenn> ybit: i never needed anything from salome and thus never installed it and thus didnt feel right including instructions that i didnt actually test
20:45 < fenn> i often wish opencascade were simpler, so addin even more crap seemed like a bad idea
20:46 < kanzure> he heh has guido and ed
20:46 < kanzure> but anyway, he thinks he can fit us in
20:47 < kanzure> he's driving in from sf
20:47 < fenn> o rly
20:48 < fenn> i might go to bay area; hijacking joseph's caravan sounds attractive
20:48 < kanzure> there are some folks there that would like to house you
20:48 < ybit> i call rooftop, fenn, bryan you will have to fight over who gets the rope tied to the trunk
20:48 < kanzure> or at least put up with you for a few days at minimum
20:49 < kanzure> i'll weld a chair to the front hood
20:49 < fenn> i was going to hang out with my brother for a while, but others might be interesting too
20:49 < kanzure> oh right, a brother
20:49 < kanzure> i want you to meet steve, just because he's in the area
20:49 < fenn> er, i still havent asked my brother or anything
20:49 < kanzure> but there are others, like michael anissimov
20:50 < ybit> dammit, python's api ref page froze fsckfox
20:50 < fenn> fsckfox froze itself
20:50 < ybit> something like that
20:50 < kanzure> i don't know why anyone puts up with firefox
20:50 < fenn> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DupTective
20:52 < fenn> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CategoryDuplicationFindingTool
20:57 -!- corvinius [n=anonymou@202.20.3.32] has quit []
21:03  * ybit wonders why paul doesn't use salome 
21:18 < ybit> kanzure: who's ed?
21:18 < ybit> and is that Guido D. Nez-Mujica?
21:18 < ybit> nez-mujica seems like an interesting character
21:20 < fenn> ed probably is embraceunity.com
21:20 < kanzure> ed miller
21:20 < kanzure> yep
21:20 < ybit> fenn: you're part of the hardware liberation front as well, aye? :P
21:20 < fenn> ybit: i'm the founding member apparently
21:21 < ybit> that must be frustrating with bryan being part of the people's hardware liberation front
21:21 < fenn> you mean the hardware liberation front of the people
21:21 < drazak> haha
21:24 < fenn> "Porn will be the vanguard"
21:26 < ybit> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DJOTEDBA2c :: was that really the quake engine, because it looks to me like they put the mouse in a windows 95 maze screensaver, poor rodent
21:29 < fenn> that's not a mouse, it's a trackball!
21:30 < fenn> but seriously where do i get one
21:38 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-35-235.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:01 -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-35-44.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:11 < ybit> a simple lego brick isn't a good example
22:11 < ybit> it needs to be multiple legos forming something
22:11 < ybit> that way skdb is actually useful
22:11 < ybit> otherwise the user might as well use any cad/cam coupling
22:12 < fenn> yeah, we talked about assemblies being a series of manufacturing techniques, such as press-fit or adhesive bonding
22:12 < ybit> then again it could still just be useful as a database via agx-cache search
22:12 < ybit> or whatever method chosen
22:14 < ybit> kanzure: i think you linked to some lego cars at some point...
22:14 < ybit> 'the most basic lego car i could make' isn't so basic
22:14 < ybit> http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/133253
22:17 < ybit> maybe we could do a convertible
22:17 < ybit> or for the tutorial, just two brick combined to make a tetris piece
22:19 < ybit> http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/imaginative-lego-clever-advertisement.jpg
22:20 < kanzure> fenn: thought you might like this. https://store.iso.org/isoweb//order/OrderDownload.html
22:21 < kanzure> also, i hate java
22:23 < ybit> kanzure: what do you open that that with?
22:23 < ybit> Iceweasel doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (ognl) isn't associated with any program.
22:23 < ybit> it's java according wikipedia
22:23 < ybit> Object-Graph Navigation Language (OGNL), created by OGNL Technology, is an open-source Expression Language (EL) for Java, 
22:26 < kanzure> those are the backend template files
22:26 < kanzure> if you read through it you'll see they are doing some embedded scripting
22:26 < ybit> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asZJHIpwpQ4, that doesn't seem too difficult
22:26 < kanzure> anyway, that's how to figure out how to download ISO documents for free
22:26 < kanzure> it looks like they are using a hash at least once, but it might just be a hash of the file name, for instance
22:26 < kanzure> anyway
22:26 < kanzure> ybit: fenn and i were originally thinking a good first demo project would be "skdb make spacebase"
22:27 < kanzure> but in legos
22:27 < kanzure> people need to understand that while it would be great for skdb to be a one night stand,
22:27 < kanzure> it really takes some time (like any project)
22:27 < kanzure> so the spacebase tutorials or project would be broken up into installments
22:27 < kanzure> the first one would be making a basic lego spacebase framework.. also known as "a giant board" 
22:27 < kanzure> the second one, maybe you get some people
22:27 < kanzure> third time around, maybe there's something new to get for your spacebase
22:28 < kanzure> but the problem is you might as well be making /actual/ stuff 
22:28 < ybit> there's no reading through this: http://ybit.ath.cx/images/2009-10-29-222150_1024x768_scrot.png
22:28 < kanzure> ybit: the html source
22:28 < kanzure> silly
22:28 < kanzure> nobody reads the web like that
22:29 < kanzure> hey who's raping this server?
22:31 < fenn> quit showing pictures of your scrot
22:31 < ybit> :)
22:31 < ybit> the base might have different 'terrain' different colored legos maybe?
22:31 -!- kanzure_ [n=kanzure@cpe-72-177-121-106.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:31 < ybit> or even varying altitude (read: stacking bricks)
22:31 < kanzure_> ybit: what did i last send
22:31 < ybit> 22:27 < kanzure> third time around, maybe there's something new to get for your spacebase
22:31 < ybit> 22:28 < ybit> there's no reading through this: http://ybit.ath.cx/images/2009-10-29-222150_1024x768_scrot.png
22:31 < ybit> 22:28 < fenn> quit showing pictures of your scrot
22:31 < ybit> 22:29 < ybit> :)
22:31 < ybit> 22:29 < ybit> the base might have different 'terrain' different colored legos maybe?
22:31 < ybit> 22:30 -!- kanzure_ [n=kanzure@cpe-72-177-121-106.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:31 < ybit> 22:30 < ybit> or even varying altitude (read: stacking bricks)
22:31 < fenn> heh racing stripes
22:31 < kanzure_> lajfdkafjadsl
22:31 -!- kanzure_ [n=kanzure@cpe-72-177-121-106.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit]
22:32 < fenn> oogajaboogawa
22:32 < ybit> watch out, there's a 56k rapists on the loose
22:32 < ybit> +dialup
22:33 < ybit> grr
22:39 < ybit> fenn, kanzure: are you thinking the board needs to be many pieces connected? or just one large plastic part with stubs sticking in an orderly fashion?
22:39 < ybit> +out
22:41 < fenn> it should be a graph, not just a tree or chain
22:41 < fenn> some kinematics would be nice too
22:41 < fenn> but i havent written any code for that yet
22:42 < fenn> also there's no way to rotate bricks 90 yet either
22:47 < kanzure> for the spacebase? i dunno
22:47 < kanzure> how would you integrate technics into a spacebase design anyway
22:47 < kanzure> "look, a regolith!"
22:48 < bkero> ll
22:49 < bkero> llll
22:49 < ybit> isn't this just a simple copy here, copy there type thing from pythonocc's api?
22:49 < ybit> ..for rotation
22:49 < ybit> hi bkero 
22:49 < ybit> did you get my PM earlier?
22:49 < bkero> sorry
22:49 < bkero> yea brb
22:49 < ybit> no probs
22:49 < ybit> alright
22:50 < ybit> fenn ^
22:51 < ybit> ...or the misanthrope the hardware liberation front of the people
22:51 < ybit> +of
22:51 < ybit> grr, why am i completely missing words on a regular basis (rhetorical, please don't answer)
22:52 < fenn> kanzure: the classic space base had these radar dome panel things that swiveled out
22:55 < kanzure> ybit: pythonocc's api is just opencascade crammed down swig's throat
22:56 < kanzure> opencascade doesn't do part mating
22:56 < kanzure> so it doesn't know about revolute joints
22:56 < kanzure> ODE does, so that's what i was supposed to be doing for the past month
22:56 < kanzure> yet-another-dependency
22:56 < kanzure> right now if you notice, paths.py just kinda builds a wall
22:56 < kanzure> even though the legos should be able to be rotated.. well. now you know why
23:00 < kanzure> haa
23:01 < kanzure> how much should i pay for an ISO document that usually costs 92 chf?
23:01 < kanzure> ping? anyone
23:02 < ybit> oh noes, not this part
23:02 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/images/2009-10-29-225529_1024x768_scrot.png
23:02  * ybit prepares to see this for a long time: http://ybit.ath.cx/images/2009-10-29-225545_1024x768_scrot.png
23:03 < ybit> or just ctl-c and hope it picks another part
23:03 < ybit> it, being paths.py
23:04 < ybit> isn't someone in here from switzerland?
23:04 < ybit> wouldn't someone be willing to share teh iso doc?
23:04 < kanzure> iso docs cost money
23:04 < kanzure> well, usually
23:04 < kanzure> anyway, how about a tenth of a penny
23:04 < ybit> so do some books which i get for free
23:05 < ybit> you name your price?
23:05 < kanzure> yeah but iso docs aren't running around the net really
23:05 < kanzure> no, but they have stupid programmers working for them
23:05 < kanzure> they put the price in HTML on their order page
23:05 < kanzure> as a form value
23:05 < ybit> hah.
23:05 < kanzure> :)
23:05 < kanzure> the ISP at my college dorm did the same thing
23:05 < ybit> if it works out for you, i say go for it
23:06 < ybit> did that work out as well?
23:06 < kanzure> yes
23:06 < ybit> haha, nice
23:06 < kanzure> i paid $0.37 for my semester of 10 MB/sec connectivity on two machines
23:06 < kanzure> i had to register two accounts actually
23:06 < kanzure> they only allowed one mac address to be associated with a payment
23:06 < ybit> wow, did they find out eventually?
23:06 < kanzure> no
23:07 < ybit> that's the best story i've heard this hour :)
23:08 < kanzure> anyway, http://ybit.ath.cx/images/2009-10-29-225545_1024x768_scrot.png is because it's randomly putting parts together
23:08 < kanzure> it's not even searching for the first compatible part
23:08 < ybit> yup, and it continues to do so: http://ybit.ath.cx/images/2009-10-29-230238_1024x768_scrot.png
23:08 < kanzure> oh there's also the problem with the round brick that i still don't understand
23:09 < ybit> which is?
23:09 < kanzure> what you're seeing.
23:09 < ybit> hmm
23:09 < kanzure> sorry, i got confused. you're seeing the problem with the round brick
23:10 < kanzure> fenn: what's the brick that should never ever be used as the starting brick?
23:10 < ybit> np, so what is the problem exactly... and why does it matter that you can't rotate the lego bricks if you can rotate the view?
23:12 < kanzure> the bricks have an orientation in the CAD file
23:13 < kanzure> because of this, when you make a new 2x2 lego brick, it has the same orientation as in the CAD file
23:13 < fenn> the round brick gets messed up for some reason (something to do with the coincidence detector)
23:13 < kanzure> that orientation in the CAD file is not expressive of all possible orientations of the lego..
23:13 < kanzure> this is a terrible explanation
23:14 < kanzure> what if you have 2 bricks that need to go together, how do you "rotate the view" to fix /that/?
23:14 < fenn> ybit: you can rotate the connection between two bricks by 90 degrees right?
23:14 < fenn> ybit: but we dont have any code for that yet because i havent implemented kinematics (which would allow you to rotate around one stud)
23:16 < ybit> kinematics via ODE?
23:16  * kanzure twitches http://www.iso.org/static/payment-template.html
23:16 < kanzure> yeah i was thinking of just importing pyODE
23:17  * ybit removes any trace of his talk in hsv *shudder*
23:19  * kanzure spots free software on iso.org https://store.iso.org/isoweb/js/filterlist.js
23:19 < kanzure> it's a gnu saffari
23:20 < ybit> haha, the payment-template :D
23:20 < ybit> you might be known as the guy who pirated ISO before long :)
23:20 < ybit> and Nature
23:22 < ybit> so fenn, what are you working on currently in skdb? and you kanzure?
23:22 < ybit> what is the timeline here, what are you both realistically hoping to complete within about 2 months? 
23:23 < ybit> kind of hard to write a tutorial if it doesn't work, but this is what i was hoping to figure out, why it doesn't work and where my energy can be used (aside from putting up a wiki on bkero's server)
23:24 < fenn> umm.. another wiki would not be helping anything
23:24 < ybit> i'd like to work on getting the first tutorial out, which would be a spaceport (ala base plates)
23:24 < fenn> ok we dont have any way to load 'saved' lego configurations
23:24 < ybit> fenn: the wiki is djangit or hatta, for the website.. for people to share what they have (later on)
23:25 < fenn> on the other hand i'm not sure i really want to do too much with legos, it's sort of endless
23:25 < ybit> it's nothing to it, it's a matter of just running it
23:25 < ybit> are you referring to the number of parts?
23:25 < fenn> yeah
23:26 < fenn> have you played with lego digital designer?
23:26 < ybit> no
23:26 < fenn> well, making a clone of that would be pretty cool
23:26 < fenn> i had the same idea from the beginning as ldd
23:26 < fenn> but it shouldn't be all about legos
23:27 < fenn> i really dont think it's time for a tutorial yet
23:27 < ybit> of course, but i would like to get to that point
23:28 < fenn> ok well.. /me looks at todo list
23:28 < ybit> that's the goal, now how to get there, what needs to be implemented... hmm. that's a good idea
23:28 < ybit> fenn: still though, what are you working on in skdb currently?
23:29 < fenn> i'm not doing anything in skdb currently
23:29 < fenn> this morning i was answering samrose's question about metric screws which reminded me i'd never finished some of the threads code i was working on
23:30 < fenn> so i'll probably finish that first if i do work on anything
23:30 < ybit> kanzure: what are you working on?
23:30 < ybit> i'm assuming you mean tonight or within the next day.
23:30 < ybit> fenn ^
23:31 < fenn> ybit: why?
23:31 < ybit> i'm just wondering 
23:31 < ybit> 23:28 < ybit> that's the goal, now how to get there, what needs to be implemented... hmm. that's a good idea
23:32 < fenn> you probably would have gotten a better answer 2 months ago
23:32 < fenn> i'd like for someone to investigate ODE.. maybe a simple demonstration of lego bricks falling or something
23:33 < ybit> why aren't you working on skdb?
23:33 < fenn> burnout
23:33 < fenn> it doesn't do anything interesting enough to hold my attention
23:34 < fenn> i should be working on this wearable thing while i still have access to my electronics gear
23:34 < fenn> hah
23:36 < fenn> i'm such a dumbass, i passed up myvu crystals at $119 buy it now on ebay
23:38 < fenn> ybit: what have you been doing lately?
23:40 < genehacker> you have a heads up display fenn?
23:40 < fenn> not yet
23:40 < fenn> i know you're all probably sick of hearing about it
23:42 < ybit> fenn: last week i wasted time brainstorming names, had a site up by this week, and am now realizing that we need a cad file for a baseplate
23:42 < ybit> also wasted time with audio voice recording explaining the site, meant to be overlayed on an animation 
23:43 < genehacker> there's a new heads up display coming out with 800*600 resolution
23:44 < fenn> yeah yeah whatever
23:44 < fenn> it's not $170 on ebay though is it
23:44 < ybit> and there was a lot of cherrypy and cheetah documentation read
23:44 < fenn> and probably huge goggly obtrusion sticking off your face
23:44 < genehacker> also does the pressure angle of an involute change along the length of the involute?
23:44 < fenn> ybit: did you ever do anything with cherrypy?
23:45 < ybit> about as much as kanzure did :P
23:46 < fenn> well, uh, hm. why doesnt anyone do anything useful :P
23:46 < ybit> the cheetah templates this week was a nice surprise
23:50 < fenn> i mean just add some cherrypy functions to the existing code, and it'll do stuff!
23:50 < ybit> ?
23:50 < fenn> that's the whole point of cherrypy right?
23:50 < ybit> doing stuff?
23:50 < ybit> i thought that was nike's job.
23:50 < fenn> that you dont have to design a website
23:51 < fenn> you just add stuff to the existing code
--- Log closed Thu Oct 29 23:51:00 2009
--- Log opened Thu Oct 29 23:51:27 2009
23:51 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:51 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 27 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 27 normal]
23:51 < ybit> you didn't miss anything
23:52 < ybit> fenn: so the point is to allow other potentially interested beings to join in on the fun
23:52 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 74 secs
23:54 < ybit> oh, i read incorrectly, that's python package deps, poo