--- Day changed Fri Nov 13 2009
00:00 < tim__> It's not easy days yet in RepRap land, but things are steadily getting better.
00:01 < tim__> If Linux is any indication, in about ten years, they'll be easy enough for normal people to use.
00:01 < fenn> ohboy
00:01  * fenn hopes tim__ is wrong
00:02 < tim__> me too.  :D
00:06 < tim__> It really helps a lot to band together in groups.  Using the Linux metaphor, I modeled our group after a Linux User Group.  It worked better than expected.  Everyone has a different background, and knows more about / has an easier time with different parts of the build process.  Not to mention that everyone has different tools and other resources.
00:06 < tim__> It's been 1000 times easier to build a working RepRap in a group than alone.
00:06 < kanzure> sorry but the groups i've come across down here in austin are totally incompetent
00:06 < kanzure> and this is me being very forgiving
00:07 < tim__> :(  how so?
00:07 < kanzure> well they hold meetings in a retirement home
00:07 < kanzure> ok, that's not bad
00:07 < kanzure> but they don't do anything
00:08 < tim__> You are, or were at one time part of these groups, no?
00:08 < kanzure> i guess i still am, but need to get stuff done. can't sit around talking about "what are we going to do next year" with a bunch of old guys doin' nothing
00:08 < kanzure> blah
00:08 < kanzure> i sound like a meanie
00:08 < kanzure> fenn: make me sound less mean. say something stupid!
00:08 < tim__> heh
00:09 < tim__> I only ask to point out that you could take the initiative...  organize a group purchase (one of the first things I did with the MiRUG) to lower costs for everyone, or something else creative :D
00:10 < tim__> _someone_ has to do the work that makes life easier on the other group members :D
00:10 < fenn> the one "The Robot Group" meeting i attended, they talked about the budget for like half the meeting, then there was a guy with crows that pecked at a dead baby, then a dancing robot wind up toy
00:11 < tim__> meh
00:11 < tim__> that does sound horrible
00:11 < tim__> So start a group that doesn't suck :D
00:11 < fenn> easy for you to say :)
00:11 < kanzure> well we are that group
00:12 < kanzure> you're talking to it
00:12 < fenn> how did you advertise the first couple meetings? i mean how did they even know it was there
00:13  * fenn wouldnt know how to start a linux user group either
00:13 < kanzure> there's one in austin
00:13 < kanzure> but it's pretty small
00:13 < tim__> fenn: it's not so hard.  Create a google group (or use some other mailing list / forum - Google groups are just super easy), spam a few local mailing lists, and dictate a first meeting date.  Then it gets easy, because you can start delegating  :D
00:14 < kanzure> spam? i'm good at that
00:14 < kanzure> i made a total of $0.83 spamming so far!
00:14 < tim__> I sent around a few emails to local LUGs, Con mailing lists, etc.  Interested people forwarded that on to other lists.
00:14 < tim__> and by 'a few' I literally mean 3 or 4.
00:15 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mailing_lists.html too many?
00:15 < tim__> Also, mentioned it on the RepRap blog a few times.
00:15 < kanzure> yeah but there's lots of hype around reprap
00:15 < kanzure> not fair
00:16 < tim__> :)
00:17 < kanzure> can someone make sure trey daniels gets hooked up into here?
00:17 < tim__> I tried to do the same thing with starting a hackerspace a couple years back, didn't get a good response.  Tried again a few days ago, and we already have 10 or more interested people.  Sometimes we're a bit ahead of our respective times.
00:18 < kanzure> ybit: can you googlestalk him? i'm checking out for the night
00:18 < kanzure> tim__: yeah but what's the right waiting time before tries
00:18 < kanzure> i mean, i've done 30k google searches but i have no idea which ones i should redo and when. :(
00:18 < kanzure> sometimes they didn't end up anywhere good
00:18 < kanzure> and in the mean time awesome stuff pops up, but i won't ever know about it because i've thought i've already queried for it
00:18 < kanzure> blah
00:19 < katsmeow-afk> have a proxy log your browsing?
00:20 < kanzure> yes that's been on my todo list for a very long time now
00:20 < kanzure> also google has "email me new stuff" feature, but that's pretty hard to manage AFAIK
00:20 < kanzure> i'd rather manage it myself..
00:37 < ybit> kanzure: who am i googletalking again?
00:37 < ybit> stalking*
00:37 < ybit> google needs to get their act together google rape 2.0 is down indefinitely :\
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02:07 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/test/test.html
02:08 < ybit> looking better than it has
02:08 < ybit> time for sleep
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05:09 < fenn> golly gee, according to deathclock.com i can double my lifespan simply by switching from pessimism to optimism
05:10 < marainein> if you're a true pessimist, you wouldn't believe that
05:11 < fenn> a true pessimist would simply see the life as half empty
06:02 < tim__> fenn: we talked about it taking 2 weeks to replicate...  found out today why.  Got through 4 mendel parts and my extruder esploded.
06:03 < tim__> (the heater barrel slipped out of the PTFE spacer)
06:03 < tim__> First extruder lifespan: approx 15 hours print time.
06:04 < tim__> The next one will do better.
06:05 < fenn> well how long does it take to make an extruder?
06:05 < fenn> also i think the stainless/aluminum extruder looks a lot better than all that teflon acorn nut stuff
06:06 < fenn> and pinch wheel drive.. seriously wtf were the guys in england thinking?
06:07 < fenn> maybe i'm spoiled by machine tools
06:07 < tim__> The pinch wheel works MUCH better than v1's drive screw.
06:08 < tim__> I don't need to build a whole new extruder, just replace the PTFE spacer.
06:08 < fenn> it seems to me that you could use the same worm wheel as the pinch wheel and reduction drive
06:08 < tim__> ?
06:09 < fenn> er.. like this http://hydraraptor.blogspot.com/2009/10/worm-drive.html  but with only one wheel
06:10 < tim__> that looks like a nice extruder.
06:12 < fenn> and the rest of it 
06:12 < fenn> http://hydraraptor.blogspot.com/2009/11/no-compromise-extruder.html
06:13 < fenn> i dont see why it has to be so long though
06:13 < fenn> in the comments it says stratasys just uses thin wall stainless tubing
06:13 < fenn> the end piece then clamps on
06:13 < fenn> that's probably what i would do
06:14 < fenn> you'd have to use a spring to keep it clamped, because of thermal expansion
06:18 < tim__> meh.  at the end there he mentions that he's made some pieces taking an hour or two, and sometimes it worked.  Mine worked splendidly over 4x 2.5 hour prints - three of which were in a row.  I don't think I'm far behind using the nearly-100% plastic official RepRap design.
06:18 < tim__> A couple quick improvements, and I'll be off to the races again.
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06:25 < fenn> i dont like the standard version because 1) there's no automatic adjustment for slop and 2) you have to get a stepper with a sharp splined shaft
06:27 < fenn> and it looks like it puts a lot of load on the stepper motor's internal bearings
06:28 < fenn> i mean where do you get a motor like that? it looks like some random thing he pulled out of the junk box
06:46 < tim__> http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=1581231
06:54 < tim__> and what do you have against steppers pulled from the junk pile?  Mine came from a long-dead printer.
06:54 < tim__> :D
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07:06 < fenn> it's not a good way to make a "standard" design spec
07:06 < fenn> the jameco motor has splined shaft? it doesn't look like it
07:07 < fenn> ("something from the junk pile" was referring to the splined shaft, btw)
07:26 < kanzure> dethklok
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07:37 < kanzure> ybit: how goes the .deb?
07:51 < tim__> fenn: no, it doesn't.  Neither did mine.  I splined it manually with a jig and a dremel, and cleaned it up a bit with a triangular file.  Works great.
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10:06 < kanzure> todd has odd ip addresses
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10:08 < genehacker> so tim__ you want a reprapable construction kit?
10:09 < genehacker> kanzure you're posting on the 3ds thing
10:09 < kanzure> hm?
10:09 < genehacker> ok cool
10:09 < kanzure> what's up?
10:10 < genehacker> oh you are doing 3 day start up
10:10 < kanzure> yeah
10:11 < genehacker> actually the programmer ratio might be a bit higher, but most of the things i've seen so far from those 3daystartup things tend to be ideas that seem like good ideas to business people
10:13 < genehacker> the 3daystartup things tend to focus on "niche market/underserved market" things
10:15 < genehacker> and they usually like web2.0 things and software things
10:18 < genehacker> one of the ideas that won was a cellphone games for families thing
10:18 < genehacker> the reason: the family game market for cellphones is underserved
10:18 < kanzure> "ideas that won"
10:18 < kanzure> what?
10:19 < genehacker> I'm not sure if it won, it was something one of the TES guys did
10:19 < genehacker> their startup
10:19 < kanzure> what do you mean "won"
10:20 < genehacker> oops
10:20 < genehacker> I seem to have confused idea 2 product and TES
10:21 < genehacker> anyway need any help with it? 
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12:09 < CIA-43> skdb: kanzure * r 8fe27a4 / (2 files in 2 dirs): graphsynth save_gxml method
12:59 < kanzure> pleasestalk: william andregg, michael andregg
13:06 < ybit> kanzure: i haven't attempted to fix the error in days, figured i would make a little more progress on the site before bashing my head over the .deb again
13:07 < genehacker> woo water on the moon for sure this tiem
13:07 < genehacker> as in a significant amount
13:08 < ybit> what were we supposed to know about andreggs, kanzure?
13:09 < kanzure> whether or not they are bullshit
13:09 < kanzure> andrew hessel claims no
13:09 < kanzure> todd huffman claims they've gone the commercial route and i shouldn't bother with them
13:13 < ybit> i've never heard of them
13:13 < kanzure> zach claims he wants to integrate skdb into thingiverse
13:13 < kanzure> i don't believe it though
13:13 < kanzure> he said that a year ago too
13:14 < ybit> yeah, i just saw that
13:15 < kanzure> hm let's get a vote. who thinks he's likely to be serious this time?
13:16 < kanzure> i say nay
13:16 < ybit> i think he'll have a look and realize it isn't ready to be integrated
13:17 < kanzure> it's easy to assume that without actually looking
13:17 < ybit> he'll probably want something simple for the users, when it has a simple installation, he may change his mind
13:17 < kanzure> i mean
13:17 < kanzure> how can you prove that he will take a look before thinking that?
13:17 < ybit> you can't
13:17 < kanzure> no he said integrate into thingiverse
13:17 < kanzure> that's not the same thing as a .deb
13:17 < kanzure> actually i think we might be able to
13:17 < kanzure> i have his ip addresss
13:17 < ybit> ah
13:17 < ybit> hehe
13:18 < kanzure> oh god google is crawling /lab/2008-10-30/R_1/
13:18 < genehacker> wait zach said a second time he wants skdb in his thingiverse?
13:18 < genehacker> sounds like we're gtting assimilated
13:19 < kanzure> do you think zach uses opera? if so he is 90.186.238.30
13:20 < kanzure> ah, nope
13:20 < kanzure> that's some random scanner bot
13:20 < kanzure> if he uses macintosh, maybe 129.55.200.20
13:21 < kanzure> nope that's someone on mit.edu
13:23  * ybit snacks and naps for 1.5 hours
13:23 < kanzure> i wish i gave people unique URLs so that i could figure out which IP address they are
13:25 < ybit> i just don't think hacking into someone's computer and setting up skdb is a good idea :P
13:25 < genehacker> he probably has some security stuff installed
13:25 < ybit> screw napping
13:26 < kanzure> just because you know an ip address doesn't mean you want to hack
13:26 < ybit> yeah, but if it's windows, then there's nothing to it ;)
13:26 < genehacker> anyway I think skdb needs to do more stuff
13:27 < genehacker> I'm also wonder what shape classification I should give to metal spin forming
13:27 < genehacker> it makes rotationally symmetrical parts
13:28 < genehacker> not knowing it can have expensive consequences
13:29 < genehacker> my professor told us a story of someone who made a hollow metal dome by machining it down from a solid block 
13:30 < kanzure> genehacker: sorry but you've probably never used skdb.
13:30 < kanzure> in fact, i am sure of it
13:30 < genehacker> yes I know
13:30 < genehacker> I haven't
13:31 < genehacker> how the heck do I use it?
13:31 < genehacker> and what can I do with it?
13:34 < kanzure> huh: http://afterthedeadline.com/
13:34 < kanzure> genehacker: you use it by running it under python
13:34 < kanzure> say "python skdb.py" or something
13:34 < kanzure> you can share hardware designs, run a thingiverse-like website (almost), and check dependencies
13:51 < genehacker> I don't need to run a thingiverse like website
13:51 < genehacker> how does dependency checking work?
13:59 < genehacker> anyway what geometry classification should I give bending?
15:14 < ybit> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:591
15:14 < ybit> kanzure, fenn 
15:15 < ybit> tim__: exactly what i was asking you to make it seems
15:15 < ybit> proof of concept it can be done, which is a plus
15:20 < ybit> kanzure: will you do me a favor a render some rather large cad files in wireframe mode, take some snapshots and send them my way? i can't render a drill or transmission on this computer, at least not within a 24 hour timeframe
15:21 < ybit> genehacker: we have already discussed dependencies
15:21 < ybit> what exactly do you mean by geometry classification?
15:49 < ybit> hod got back to me
15:50 < ybit> That's from almost a decade ago... I don't think I can find the code, and it
15:50 < ybit> wouldn't work anyway.
15:50 < ybit> Regarding your platform, check out our fab@home
15:50 < ybit> --hod
15:51 < ybit> it's not _my_ platform obviously, i just mentioned the skdb project to him, that it was doing something similar to what he proposed in his papaer
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16:13 < ybit> oh, he was referrign to the precision positioning system i bet *face to the head*
16:13 < ybit> er...
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17:09 < genehacker> the type of geometries that bending can make
18:00 < ybit> http://ybit.ath.cx/test/test.html
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20:30 < ybit> fenn: are you around
22:19 < ybit> kanzure: you wouldn't happen to have a local copy of the 3ds notes?