--- Day changed Thu Dec 03 2009
00:00 < futuresoon> i think in rdf there's more intelligence in the data itself, so that sparql queries themselves can be written that find what you're looking for specifically
00:00 < futuresoon> instead of writing code that figures it out, you would write query builders (or something)
00:01 < futuresoon> in that case the ontologies really do heavy lifting, not just "mental masturbatory" whatchama
00:01 < kanzure> why is this so important?
00:02 < fenn> query writing becomes generic and you dont have to know the code structure in advance
00:02 < kanzure> so what?
00:02 < futuresoon> well for one thing you could have a "distro" where you solved the b-rep and manufacturing processes (make them standard) and still be able to use that data
00:02 < fenn> presumably there are tools to interactively query an rdf dataset, like bpython
00:02 < kanzure> i'm sorry futuresoon but that sentence didn't make sense
00:03 < fenn> yeah i think you are using the word b-rep wrong, every time you say it, it makes no sense
00:03 < futuresoon> okay i'm just learning what it is today
00:03 < futuresoon> so definitely let me know when i misuse it
00:03 < fenn> b-rep == geometry
00:03 < fenn> solid geometry in particular
00:04 < fenn> has android really been out since january?
00:04 < fenn> i first saw "compass mode" like two weeks ago
00:04 < kanzure> fenn: smari's whole point was that you can have any query language and just get their internal data structures for their parsed queries. i mean, most query languages are pretty much the same. tables, values, attributes, etc.
00:04 < fenn> but these guys are talking about it like common knowledge in january
00:05 < fenn> kanzure: you mean translating between query languages?
00:05 < kanzure> no
00:05 < kanzure> i mean querying the same underlying set of data from whatever your favorite querying language is
00:05 < fenn> ok same thing i guess
00:05 < kanzure> do'h?
00:06 < kanzure> futuresoon: i think it's hard to understand all this semantic bullshit without some down-to-earth-experience
00:06 < futuresoon> kanzure: if someone uses SIOC and Dublin Core and a few other common things as well as an SKDB rdf ontology you can say "show me all the versions of x-type-widget for which i meet all the manufacturing processes and materials that are after such and such a date"
00:06 < kanzure> futuresoon: so if you have python installed, and skdb downloaded, run "dice.py" in skdb/ to see if it works or not.
00:07 < kanzure> futuresoon: and you're claim is that we can't do that without an rdf ontology?
00:07 < kanzure> i mean ew could also do it with rocks and stones if we wanted to..
00:07 < kanzure> on abiscidoafjdjdidrfq um. nevermind
00:07 < fenn> with the current system, the query language is python
00:07 < kanzure> not quite true
00:07 < futuresoon> loading foomoo, loading !foo bar, dumping Foo(moo)
00:07 < kanzure> there's also some booleano implementation
00:07 < kanzure> futuresoon: ok so it works?
00:08 < futuresoon> i guess so
00:08 < fenn> i've never seen booleano working
00:08 < kanzure> i mean no errors
00:08 < futuresoon> none that i see
00:08 < futuresoon> i think what i'm missing now is OCC
00:08 < fenn> it's just a demo of inferring tag type
00:08 < kanzure> yeah i'm trying to show him that this is about serialization
00:08 < kanzure> there's an actual "object" that is created, an instantiation of a class
00:08 < kanzure> yaml is a way of storing this
00:09 < kanzure> the standard way to do this in python is "pickle" but it spits out binary crap that humans can't edit/read/care-for
00:10  * fenn wonders whether to point at the old diagram with boxes and arrows
00:10 < futuresoon> so it's that if you had to instantiate the object, then it must be a dependency?
00:10 < futuresoon> am i close?
00:10 < kanzure> "so it's that" <- what?
00:10 < futuresoon> you're finding these serialized objects (instances of a class) and so now you know what they are and that they're dependencies?
00:10 < kanzure> no
00:11 < fenn> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/Skdb.png  <- puzzle pieces are (python) libraries, documents are yaml, cylinder thingies are git repositories, hexagons are live python objects
00:11 < kanzure> dependencies are listed out in plaintext and refer to packages 
00:11 < futuresoon> kanzure: right that's what i thought earlier
00:11 < kanzure> ok writing down a list of dependencies is easy. it's a list
00:11 < kanzure> every single data formatting language will have the ability to do lists :)
00:11 < futuresoon> heh
00:11 < fenn> uh.
00:12 < kanzure> well i would hope so
00:12 < futuresoon> i thought only perl can do lists!!!!
00:12 < futuresoon> :-P
00:12 < fenn> the generalization problem i was talking about earlier means that each dependency is actually a query
00:12 < kanzure> you must be older than me
00:12 < kanzure> fenn: well yes that's not implemented yet
00:12 < fenn> power output > 50W or whatever
00:12 < kanzure> there's some code in tests/test_dep.py
00:12 < kanzure> but it's only partly working now with booleano
00:12 < kanzure> it's basically a way of building up a hierarchical boolean algebra tree
00:13 < futuresoon> the logic circuits like air and ground transportation?
00:13 < kanzure> and again, we should be able to support any querying language
00:14 < futuresoon> basically the materials i've seen on this mostly include the update from austin pdf
00:14 < kanzure> ideally: we import some thirdparty fancy query language module; we pass it along a list of objects; and it finds the right objects according to the query's parameters
00:14 < kanzure> ok
00:14 < kanzure> more people have viewed that than i originally expected to :)
00:14 < futuresoon> it's good. i had to fill in some blanks googling around but i'm 80% there
00:15 < fenn> people keep saying it's good too, which i find baffling
00:15 < futuresoon> well it stimulates the imagination
00:15 < kanzure> aw fenn doesn't like my presentation :(
00:15 < futuresoon> fenn saying what puzzle pieces, cylinders, etc. mean certainly is one of those blanks
00:15 < futuresoon> that i needed filling in on
00:15 < kanzure> :p
00:15 < fenn> kanzure: arent you supposed to be making a sphere blink or something?
00:15 < kanzure> uhhh
00:16  * kanzure *blink* *blink*
00:16 < futuresoon> blinky, the killer app of open source manufacturing
00:16 < kanzure> this is actually for something else
00:16 < kanzure> i was on this indoor localization programming team
00:16 < fenn> they're doing localization with wifi signal strength triangulation
00:16 < kanzure> and so i wrote up this 3d rendering dealy to show where a laptop is in a building
00:16 < futuresoon> nice
00:16 < kanzure> i don't know why though
00:16 < futuresoon> still, pretty cool
00:17 < futuresoon> okay so filling in holes in my knowledge :-)
00:17 < fenn> nah it sucks on the backend
00:17 < futuresoon> back to that
00:17 < kanzure> ok sure
00:17 < fenn> i mean it won't interpolate between checkpoints
00:17 < futuresoon> i'm lost on the querying in multiple languages thing, and what's even queryable
00:17 < fenn> and can't tell the relative locations of nodes
00:17  * fenn shuts up
00:17 < kanzure> futuresoon: there are "packages" 
00:17 < futuresoon> right
00:17 < kanzure> in the packages that you download, there are catalogs of potential parts
00:17 < kanzure> er sorry
00:17 < kanzure> there are catalogs of particular parts
00:17 < futuresoon> LifeTrac and PowerCube could be packages for openfarmtech, let's say
00:17 < fenn> parts have certain "functionality" - these are attributes that describe what it does
00:18 < kanzure> you can also instantiate new parts by say downloading the screw package and loading it into python and saying Screw("3M")
00:18 < futuresoon> just so i have some concrete things to think on
00:18 < futuresoon> okay
00:18 < fenn> parts also have other attributes like mass and color and favorite time of day
00:18 < kanzure> anyway- in the screw package
00:18 < kanzure> there's a file called "data.yaml" 
00:18 < fenn> parts also have derived values that aren't explicitly stated anywhere in the data about them
00:18 < kanzure> and this is essentially a catalog in the data.yaml file
00:18 < futuresoon> grade 3, length 1 in
00:18 < fenn> i.e. what is the neutron cross section of a steel bolt
00:19 < fenn> we can calculate this value but it doesn't exist in the data
00:19 < kanzure> so you can search the catalog of pre-defined parts, but of course that catalog hardly lists all possible screws- like the data that fenn is talking about calculating in the Screw class
00:19 < futuresoon> screws of arbitrary neutron cross sections, arbitrary shape, etc. are not the purpose of the files
00:19 < futuresoon> you're still making design selections
00:19 < QuantumG> ya know, if there was ever an application for all this Semantic Web crap it is parts catalogs.
00:20 < futuresoon> QuantumG: that's why i'm here :-)
00:20 < fenn> yeah it's too bad none of the parts catalogs do it
00:20 < fenn> then we might have some data to work with
00:20 < futuresoon> fenn: because the CMS are limited
00:20 < kanzure> bullshit
00:20 < futuresoon> it's a chicken/egg problem
00:20 < kanzure> i've written CMSes before
00:20 < QuantumG> yep.. and what's more they're the most backwards people around
00:20 < fenn> mcmaster.com has no excuse then
00:20 < fenn> their CMS is totally custom
00:20  * kanzure nods
00:21 < futuresoon> kanzure: then you've never written one with a good RDF triplestore because that's taken forever in Drupal to make them interoperate
00:21 < QuantumG> and they're one of the best
00:21 < fenn> that's why there's no excuse
00:21 < kanzure> QuantumG: mcmaster.com doesn't even load in my version of firefox
00:21 < kanzure> QuantumG: it's really amazing how much they fail
00:21 < kanzure> like they've found the most optimal way to fail
00:21 < kanzure> consistently
00:21 < QuantumG> I had a pleasant experience today with a site that actually let me search for solenoid valves by maximum pressure rating
00:21 < kanzure> neat
00:21 < kanzure> where?
00:22 < fenn> "failing optimally since 1982"
00:22 < fenn> that's barely semantic
00:22 < kanzure> what the hell is a reverse compiler engineer doing looking over solenoid valve pressure ratings? 
00:22 < kanzure> hee
00:22 < QuantumG> www.ascovalve.com
00:22 < kanzure> :p
00:22 < kanzure> oh wait
00:22 < fenn> building a rokkit
00:22 < kanzure> for your mockingbird.pdf-killer
00:22 < kanzure> right
00:23 < QuantumG> well, actually for a much simpler rocket testbed but yes
00:23 < kanzure> more power to you
00:24 < kanzure> futuresoon: so, i hope that cleared up your question about "what data would be queried anyway" 
00:24 < QuantumG> btw, I don't have any trouble with mcmaster in firefox
00:24 < kanzure> huh
00:24 < kanzure> well i'm on a wonky version (iceweasel) that hasn't been updated since early 3.something
00:24 < QuantumG> I'm using firefox 3.5.5
00:24 < kanzure> also why am i using firefox? :(
00:25 < futuresoon> kanzure: so i can find all packages that contain a certain sized screw. or all packages that can be made given the prerequisites i have, etc.?
00:26 < kanzure> searching for all packages that can be made given your inventory/prereqs is definitely a user-case-scenario that we want to be doable ASAP
00:26 < kanzure> but it doesn't work /quite/ yet
00:26 < kanzure> at the moment there is only one screw package so that's where you'd look for a certain sized screw
00:26 < fenn> is there a way to do that without loading every package into memory?
00:26 < kanzure> also, since screws are fairly standard, we can reliably say "here's how to generate screws" (in the Screw class)
00:26 < kanzure> fenn: yeah just look at the dependencies
00:26 < kanzure> owait
00:26 < kanzure> er
00:26 < kanzure> right now loading a package loads everything
00:26 < kanzure> but it wouldn't be hard to do a "soft load" that just touches the metadata
00:27 < fenn> we already do that
00:27 < kanzure> blah okay
00:27 < kanzure> oh right. in load_package?
00:27 < fenn> anyway.. so if it has a screw, metadata.yaml ought to say dependency: screw
00:27 < fenn> meaning the screw package
00:27 < kanzure> yes
00:28 < fenn> so how does futuresoon know to look for that? in his hypothetical query
00:28 < kanzure> what query is it
00:28 < kanzure> i mean, does he have a screw in his inventory potentially?
00:28 < kanzure> or what
00:28 < fenn> all packages that ontain a certain size screw
00:29 < kanzure> it would have to look for packages that depend on screw, and then investigate the part catalog / BOM
00:29 < fenn> "load all packages that dpeend on 'screw' and then look in their BOM"
00:29 < fenn> ok
00:29 < kanzure> maybe a BOM should be in the metadata?
00:29 < kanzure> futuresoon: some of this can be reworked because yaml is friendly like that
00:30 < kanzure> or most of this even
00:30 < futuresoon> kanzure: that would be helpful
00:30 < futuresoon> there's a philosophy going around that all data is metadata
00:30 < kanzure> but if a BOM only says "this part and only this part", then that kind of limits what you can do
00:30 < fenn> not all data
00:30 < kanzure> because lots of substitute parts are valid or workable in some scenarios
00:30 < futuresoon> everything is miscellaneous sometimes you'll hear people say
00:30 < fenn> only people totally disconnected from reality
00:30 < fenn> sensor readings are not metadata
00:31 < fenn> results of an analysis is not metadata
00:31 < QuantumG> http://www.365tomorrows.com/08/01/korean-made/
00:31 < futuresoon> hmm, i'll have to think about that one i guess, but what i mean is that if you soft load package dependencies because that would be useful to query, it's also useful to query the BOM
00:32 < kanzure> ok
00:32 < kanzure> yeah sure
00:32 < futuresoon> if i'm in a junk yard and i want to know what i can build with the junk i have
00:32 < futuresoon> i need a quick way of identifying my junk and then listing briefly what i can actually do with it
00:32 < kanzure> right now if you load up the "lego" package you also load up the CAD models in the "data.yaml" file, but there's no reason that this has to happen all the time
00:32 < fenn> "soft load" basically means just load the metadata file into yaml, but don't turn it into objects
00:32 < futuresoon> fenn: right
00:32 < kanzure> and in fact, loading up CAD upon loading up a package is probably a silly idea :) maybe that should be reworked
00:33 < fenn> i dont think so
00:33 < kanzure> right now when you turn on the cherrypy server, when someone requests heybryan.org:8081/package/lego/ i see all this opencascade spam as it loads up a few lego STEP files. :)
00:33 < kanzure> (but it only does it once per server bootup)
00:33 < fenn> we had to do the load_cad manually before and it sucked
00:33 < kanzure> ah true that
00:33 < kanzure> i remember being annoyed about that
00:34 < kanzure> futuresoon: one thing that's been on the todo list (mentally but not in the repo's todo list) is an inventory input system
00:34 < futuresoon> what would the inventory input system do
00:34 < kanzure> that would be a major help especially from a replab point of view
00:34 < kanzure> well
00:35 < kanzure> first of all, i've noticed that people *suck* at giving me inventories
00:35 < kanzure> they give their own tools various custom names or just say things differently
00:35 < kanzure> 24" drum sander v. "drum sander" v. sander, etc. etc.
00:35 < kanzure> so, the idea here is to just let them type in a list of machines, tools and parts they have in their inventory
00:35 < kanzure> and then we show them particular packages that they might mean
00:36 < kanzure> so if they say "blowtorch" we'll say "is this what you meant? [sears blowtorch] [no] [yes] [go away]"
00:36 < fenn> its like your wizard, but for inventory
00:36  * kanzure nods
00:36 < futuresoon> my wizard? rdf you mean?
00:36 < kanzure> fenn: ok bad
00:36 < fenn> well, just a web form thingy
00:36 < futuresoon> definitely sounds doable in drupal/rdf
00:36 < futuresoon> yup
00:36 < kanzure> well it doesn't matter what it is in..
00:36 < fenn> doesnt even matter what framework since it gets translated to yaml in the end
00:36 < kanzure> as long as the inventory can be loaded up into python objects
00:36 < kanzure> heh
00:36 < kanzure> stop reading my brain waves
00:36 < kanzure> fdjkafl;jadj;ajfa
00:37 < kanzure> i swear there's some "interference" or something
00:37  * fenn turns off kanzure's korean implant
00:37 < fenn> btw the fries were soggy
00:37 < kanzure> fenn has been nearly 10m from me at all times for the past 6 months
00:37 < fenn> that's scary isn't it
00:37 < kanzure> (on average)
00:37 < kanzure> yes
00:37 < fenn> well it wasn't my idea was it?
00:37 < futuresoon> this doesn't sound like a one time issue though---there are probably lots of things that you'd like to provide a user an interface to generate machine readable data
00:38 < kanzure> er
00:38 < kanzure> if we can generate it then why do we need the user
00:38 < fenn> guide the user
00:38 < futuresoon> i don't mean to create the <xml></xml> tags
00:38 < futuresoon> but to put stuff BETWEEN the tags
00:38 < QuantumG> why is it that whenever I read a php "tip" page I can't help but assume the person writing it is a moron?
00:38 < kanzure> QuantumG: i can't help it either. but what is a "tip" page?
00:38 < fenn> QuantumG: because you can't help but assume everyone is a moron
00:39 < fenn> this fact has been established.. next!
00:39 < kanzure> futuresoon: anyway yes i agree that wizards are nice and pretty
00:39 < QuantumG> ya know "the echo command in php seems to be really slow, how can I make it faster?"
00:39 < kanzure> wtf
00:39 < fenn> "run it on localhost"
00:39 < kanzure> wait who uses echo in php?
00:39 < futuresoon> i use print personally
00:40 < kanzure> i've started to notice that some people have been using php scripts in their shells
00:40 < kanzure> and i don't know why
00:40 < fenn> hammer, meet nail
00:40 < kanzure> php5-cgi my_script.php
00:40 < futuresoon> basically
00:40 < QuantumG> believe it or not, the moronic answer is "put ob_start() at the start of your function" and the in-depth answer is "it's called bandwidth, idiot."
00:40 < kanzure> oh man, i remember using ob_start
00:40 < kanzure> but that's to prevent output
00:40 < kanzure> and to capture it into a buffer
00:41 < kanzure> am i talking out of my ass? wait, don't tell me. i don't actually care about php
00:41 < kanzure> http://php.net/ob_start
00:41 < QuantumG> ya.. so then your script finishes with a nice full buffer and the web server dumps it all at once.. so drooling php user says "see, faster!"
00:42 < kanzure> QuantumG: have you ever seen people using libcurl in their php scripts?
00:42 < QuantumG> like there's any sensible way to "optimize" php
00:42 < kanzure> i've been seeing a lot of recently because i've started hanging out in stupidville
00:42 < QuantumG> kanzure: sure
00:42 < kanzure> oh man.. it's terrible
00:42 < kanzure> futuresoon: please never ever query stuff with libcurl on the backend of your web server
00:42 < QuantumG> just about anyone who does paypal integration does it
00:42 < futuresoon> kanzure: ok
00:42 < kanzure> make that a separate daemon or something
00:43 < kanzure> QuantumG: ah that's true
00:43 < kanzure> uhm.
00:43 < futuresoon> no doubt that php is an awful awful language
00:43 < QuantumG> its certainly better than the horrid code paypal supply
00:43 < kanzure> yes but i've seen people using libcurl for writing web spiders
00:43 < QuantumG> but that's not hard.
00:43 < futuresoon> i should learn haskell so i can start porting drupal to haskell, but that's not gonna happen
00:44 < QuantumG> haskell is great for programs that require no I/O :)
00:44 < kanzure> huh so none of them?
00:44 < futuresoon> it requires it, it just can't do it :-)
00:44 < QuantumG> bingo
00:44 < futuresoon> not without these monad-majigs
00:44 < kanzure> :)
00:44 < kanzure> i need some sleep
00:44 < kanzure> ybit: you better get your ass on that flight tomorrow morning or else i'm going to be pissed
00:45 < QuantumG> one of my favourite papers is a PhD who wrote a first person person shooter in Haskell.
00:45 < kanzure> QuantumG: why did he.. 
00:45 < QuantumG> as in, it took a PhD........
00:45 < kanzure> isn't that one of the first things everyone writes in any language?
00:45 < kanzure> "oh i know i'll make a FPS!"
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00:45 < futuresoon> in haskell it's truly an accomplishment
00:46 < kanzure> disclaimer: i have never touched haskell
00:46 < kanzure> good night world
00:46 < futuresoon> kanzure: seeya
00:46 < QuantumG> later
00:46 < futuresoon> my understanding is that haskell is like lisp but awesome
00:47 < QuantumG> haskell is like using a fortune cookie to tighten a bolt.
00:48 < fenn> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jessicaginger/2975166513/
00:49 < futuresoon> cute
00:49 < fenn> i wonder if it's real
00:50 < fenn> egads http://www.microsoft.com/PRODUCTS/info/product.aspx?view=22&pcid=dba164ed-4580-4ea6-837c-5f4471a6a036&type=ovr
00:50 < fenn> microsoft makes childrens books now?
00:51 < katsmeow-afk> programming the suck,, i mean educating the customers early
00:52 < QuantumG> "Don’t feel foolish if you haven’t heard of a stay-at-home server. You too can have one, and be one of the cool families on the block. "
00:56 < fenn> guessing this is probably more likely to lead to a weird fetish than have its intended purpose: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jessicaginger/2499699250/
00:57 < katsmeow-afk> lol
00:57 < katsmeow-afk> too late, i already heard of the fetish(es)
01:02 < fenn> i wonder if my family is doing this secretly http://gingery.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/jessica-charlesworth_a1_poster_v7.jpg
01:16 < futuresoon> fenn: each of these !lego things is a different means of constructing a generalized lego-like thing
01:17 < futuresoon> my terminology is off i know
01:17 < futuresoon> but i have a technic pin, a round lego, etc.
01:18 < futuresoon> what are the interfaces for is another thing i don't get
01:18 < futuresoon> anyway, it's time for bed i guess
01:19 < fenn> the grammar.yaml file gives example lego bricks for each interface type
01:19 < futuresoon> okay
01:19 < futuresoon> i mean the interfaces are for the whole b-rep thing?
01:19 < futuresoon> or is that all done in cad
01:20 < fenn> the interface tells you what other interfaces it's compatible with
01:20 < fenn> stud goes into anti stud etc
01:20 < futuresoon> is that exact or probabilistic?
01:20 < fenn> exact
01:21 < fenn> it's all symbol based, no cad involved in determining compatibility at this stage
01:21 < fenn> we were doing some stuff with collision detection but it didnt really work
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01:22 < futuresoon> disconnect
01:23 < fenn> it's all symbol based, no cad involved in determining compatibility at this stage
01:23 < fenn> we were doing some stuff with collision detection but it didnt really work
01:23 < futuresoon> right
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04:51 < fenn> for your amusement, carl sagan fans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlpyGhABXRA
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06:28 < ybit> kanzure: i'll call you when i arrive there, about to leave for the airport right now
06:34 < ybit> wtf, i just got an email saying they are overbooked in volunteers
06:34 < ybit> bastards, i have to pay $200 -_-
07:09 < kanzure> ybit: use the speaker code when registering
07:11 < kanzure> "probably british"
07:15 < kanzure> "the FATE institute is a privately endowed qausi-scientific.."
07:29 < kanzure> *quasi
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07:29 < kanzure> hello
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07:36 < kanzure> fenn: turns out anil had modified blocks.py to read from a different file on the server. anyway, it was a one-line fix
07:37 < kanzure> and i didn't see that because the file was some special voodoo variable etc. etc.
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08:07 < kanzure> i'm sitting around in here: http://soa.utexas.edu/csd/
08:07 < kanzure> i am not impressed.
08:07 < kanzure> these posters.. totally ignore engineering
08:08 < kanzure> http://thebrainobservatory.ucsd.edu/hm_live.php
08:09 < kanzure> the "microtome console" is funny
08:09 < kanzure> i hope todd's device has one of those.
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08:14 < kanzure> /var/lib/gems/1.8/gems/rails-2.3.4/lib/initializer.rb:271:in `require_frameworks': no such file to load -- net/https (RuntimeError)
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09:08 < futuresoon> coppe's zorg blaster lol
09:09 < kanzure> geh?
09:11 < futuresoon> someone put that node up on my stub site
09:23 < kanzure> https://sendsocial.com/
09:25 < futuresoon> nice idea. what does the postman come by and decrypt the label?
09:27 < kanzure> not sure.. maybe they have a shipping center
09:27 < kanzure> middleman setup?
09:39 < futuresoon> kanzure: i was just playing around just now with rdfcck
09:39 < futuresoon> you have a moment?
09:39 < kanzure> http://lokiworld.org/hexagonal.txt
09:39 < kanzure> yes
09:40 < futuresoon> http://replab.sigmanode.com/admin/content/types/ectype/fields http://replab.sigmanode.com/admin/content/types/ectype/rdf http://replab.sigmanode.com/admin/content/rdf
09:40 < futuresoon> i'd say these 3 links sum up the capabilities (other than vocabulary creation and various data export methods)
09:42 < futuresoon> creating fields, importing vocabularies for re-use, mapping to rdf, and having other statements that i guess would just exist in a file independent of the rest
09:43 < kanzure> why would the BOM be a php function
09:44 < futuresoon> i guess so you could map it to a manufacturers URI, currency conversions, or other operations?
09:44 < kanzure> i think it would be a python function since the rest of the code base is in python :p
09:45 < futuresoon> and the code base should remain in python
09:45 < futuresoon> but 1) that doesn't help for representations on the web
09:45 < kanzure> yes it does
09:45 < futuresoon> well "help" is relative i guess
09:46 < kanzure> i'm not too interested in forms or management interfaces on the web
09:46 < futuresoon> and 2) is that things like maintaining a list of commercial alternatives for items in the BOM would be aided if you were linking to these unique representations on the web
09:46 < kanzure> i know how to generate these
09:46 < kanzure> can you show me an example of rdf being loaded up into a Screw object
09:46 < kanzure> er, not into, i mean as
09:46 < futuresoon> that's why i say the code base should be in python
09:47 < futuresoon> is it not possible to manipulate rdf as the current code base manipulates yaml?
09:47 < kanzure> the current code base doesn't really manipulate yaml.. it manipulates python objects.
09:47 < kanzure> which could be objects in any language
09:47 < futuresoon> python objects that read in yaml
09:47 < kanzure> no
09:47 < futuresoon> okay well what does the yaml do
09:47 < kanzure> it's serialization
09:48 < kanzure> um. the quickest way to show you would be to open up a python interpreter and do this:
09:48 < kanzure> import yaml; yaml.dump({"key": "value", "key1": "value1"})
09:49 < futuresoon> '{key: value, key1: value1}\n'
09:49 < kanzure> see?
09:49 < kanzure> hm that might not be good
09:50 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/quick_yaml_demo.py
09:50 < kanzure> brb (walking around with another laptop for a sec)
09:51 < futuresoon> i'm afk too, buying yogurt
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10:49 < kanzure> http://s.twimg.com/images/whale_error.gif
11:20 < kanzure> http://ghantoos.org/2008/10/19/creating-a-deb-package-from-a-python-setuppy/
11:33 < kanzure> http://build-common.alioth.debian.org/cdbs-doc.html
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15:57 < CIA-33> skdb: kanzure * r e4c8625 /.be/bugs/7c08ab34-f5cc-4b71-aae2-427317482204/values: bug spotted by ybit in core/skdb.py
15:59 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/presentations/hplus-summit-2009/outline
16:21 < kanzure> http://ybit.ath.cx/images/gnusha.svg
16:24 < QuantumG> my gps tracker should show up today
16:24 < Utopiah> self delivering GPS system , nice :)
16:25 < QuantumG> I was going to attach it to a weather balloon and let it go.. but it occurred to me that I live on the coastline :)
16:26 < QuantumG> might have to drive inland for a few hours first.
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17:55 < kanzure> http://lockhartwoodworks.com/
18:05 < xp_prg> who cares?
18:05 < kanzure> ybit was asking
18:38 < kanzure> ybit: was this it? http://soa.utexas.edu/people/school#I
18:53 < kanzure> http://springwise.com/
18:53 < kanzure> http://letsevo.com/
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19:56 < kanzure> fenn: want to come see the presentation?
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20:50 < kanzure> https://services.google.com/fb/forms/gmailholidaycard/
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22:52 < ybit> kanzure: yep, that was it
22:52 < fenn> so i'll be leaving sunday afternoon with joseph
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