--- Day changed Fri Dec 18 2009
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00:09 < kanzure> hey davemenn1nger 
00:10 < kanzure> are you from the ohio reprap group?
00:37 < davemenn1nger> yeah
00:43 < davemenn1nger> i'm interested in fab labs etc - we have some cnc projects in the works at the hive13 hackerspace in cincinnati
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01:25 < technologiclee> davemenn1nger:  i would like to know more. what kind of cnc projects?
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02:47 < technologiclee> randallagordon: whats new?
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06:25 < fenn> so i had lots of cake and some mulled wine and explained skdb to tim anderson and liam+mara of shipyard
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06:27 < fenn> and we burned stuff
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07:22 < kanzure> "I describe in terms off a dialog, imagining a magic mirror. (It is a wall-mounted flat panel with a face displayed.) The user is prompted to completed the phrase "I want a...." The response may also be "I want to....""
07:22 < kanzure> "Consequence, if you say "I want an apple." You get directions to the nearest store with apples, you get directions how to print a hydroponic station, whatever way you get an apple."
07:23 < kanzure> kristian chickey sent me a message suggesting that i'm missing an opportunity with skdb
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07:32 < fenn> sounds like some lame art installation
07:43 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/screenshots/my-name-email-results.png
07:43 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/screenshots/one-time-offer-results.png
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07:46 < fenn> also saw http://orbswarm.com/  which apparently is open source hardware
07:46 < kanzure> what did tim think?
07:46 < fenn> i dont remember :(
07:47 < fenn> he seemed to understand what i was saying though
07:47 < kanzure> did you tell him "YOU SHOULD BE DOING THIS" or something to knock sense into him
07:47 < fenn> not really
07:48 < fenn> more like "here's the instructables-killer idea i'm working on"
07:48 < kanzure> heh :)
07:48 < fenn> i actually said that
07:48 < Utopiah> (btw regarding SKDB website and visualization, http://processingjs.org/ seems very very nice)
07:48 < kanzure> processing came out of the media lab?
07:49 < kanzure> new rule: 90% of everything is from the media lab
07:49 < fenn> i met some guys from the media lab
07:49 < fenn> guh. too many names
07:49 < kanzure> story time
07:49 < fenn> anyway one of them was working at makani power
07:49 < fenn> i asked 'do you guys have anything yet' and tim thought it was funny
07:50 < kanzure> hm? why was it funny?
07:50 < fenn> because i was so blunt about it
07:50 < fenn> apparently they do have something working but it's like a secret or maybe they just dont care about their website or something
07:51 < Utopiah> kanzure: yep, think so, but so far I only saw the Java version and then the pyprocessing version but... having a js version is pretty neat, no loading time, can manipulate JSON easilly, etc... (but... need canvas)
07:51 < fenn> he seemed more interested in talking about how his car's transmission broke and his girlfriend left him etc
07:51 < kanzure> lame
07:52 < kanzure> so what else?
07:52 < fenn> um, three different birthday cakes>
07:52 < fenn> a giant flame bird with whirling flame heart orb
07:52 < fenn> it wasn't flaming though which was sort of a disappointment
07:52 < kanzure> are you tripping?
07:52 < fenn> no
07:53 < fenn> i dont know whether to bring a camera and try to document stuff and get it wrong the second time around
07:53 < fenn> ideally i'd just record whatever i see
07:53 < fenn> like the guy with flaming crutches, someone kept trying to take a picture and it wasn't working
07:54 < fenn> uh, boxshop is where the flaming lotus girls are headquartered, if that clears things up
07:54 < fenn> they have a big welding shop with lots of giant flame sculptures for burning man
07:55 < fenn> there are like 50 shipping containers stacked up with either workshops or living spaces in them
07:55 < kanzure> huh
07:55 < kanzure> that's worth a picture
07:55 < fenn> one of the guys i talked to was a professional diver, he does welding and inspection 60 feet underwater, i put on his dive helmet (super heavy)
07:56 < fenn> the pictures on the website show the shipping containers ok
07:56 < fenn> oh tthey have the orb robot on there too
07:57 < fenn> hm ok actually the website pictures suck
07:59 < fenn> http://boxshopsf.org/files/containers%20fisheye.jpg
07:59 < fenn> this stupid netbook has a single piece of plastic for both mouse buttons so pasting is really hard
07:59 < Utopiah> shift+insert?
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07:59 < fenn> shift insert never seems to do quite the same thing as middle click
08:00 < fenn> it's very confusing
08:01 < fenn> hadine the birthday girl was probably the cutest 45 year old i've ever met
08:02 < fenn> nothing a camera would capture anyway
08:03 < technologiclee1> i got skype going - how does one join the teleconference?
08:04 < fenn> more containers http://boxshopsf.org/files/michelle197865804_6c5daadf5d_o.jpg
08:05 < technologiclee1> nice junk - reminds me of the ranch
08:06 < fenn> there was this 8mm film of eye surgery playing the whole time too, which i decided not to watch
08:06 < technologiclee1> they are right on the water - thay could do all kinds of interesting things
08:07 < fenn> i think there is a park between their little compound and the shore
08:09 < fenn> yesterday at noisebridge the guy who runs tinkerhack.com talked at me for like 5 hours about lasers and high vacuum and led self-excitation and lots of "JUICE" eight oh EIGHT and TEN-sixty-four
08:09 < fenn> so that's how i learned how green laser pointers work
08:10 < fenn> (that's only funny if you hear michael talk)
08:10 < fenn> he has quite an impressive photo collection, something like 200k photos, and proud of them all being labeled
08:11 < fenn> http://www.tinkerhack.com/photos/index.html
08:12 < fenn> this was neat, he built an electron beam sputtering setup for coating dichroic mirrors (something to do with power beam splitters for holography) http://www.tinkerhack.com/photos/lowres/Projects%20and%20Expriments/Optical%20coater/all.html
08:13 < fenn> the wheel with six holes in it is a water cooled copper crucible that holds the quartz/rutile powder.. the e-beam goes up and over the claw thingy which is an electromagnet
08:19 < kanzure> technologiclee1: doesn't look like it's going to happen, rehmi backed out yesterday :(
08:19 < technologiclee1> for was the Les shop?
08:19 < kanzure> no it was for russell hanson and rehmi just re: skdb in general
08:19 < kanzure> rehmi is from the media lab
08:20 < kanzure> and russell hanson and i need to catch up in general
08:20 < fenn> " Moldover's CD packaging itself IS a new musical instrument! The CD is mounted on a custom designed circuit board, intricately patterned and powering a "light-Theremin"."
08:20 < fenn> who is rehmi? an austin fablab wannabe like the rest of us?
08:21 < technologiclee1> are you saying skdb is not going to happen?
08:21 < kanzure> technologiclee1: huh? no i'm saying the conference call isn't going to happen
08:21 < kanzure> fenn: no
08:21 < kanzure> fenn: http://web.media.mit.edu/~rehmi/
08:21 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure he lives in boston near russell
08:21 < kanzure> russell just wanted to introduce rehmi to me
08:21 < kanzure> that's all.. skdb still exists
08:21 < fenn> ugh these people and their fabric electronics crap
08:22 < fenn> don't they know electronics is supposed to go in black plastic clamshells
08:22 < technologiclee1> ohhhhh - ok   i was like what --   no one is holding up anything  !
08:22 < kanzure> http://web.media.mit.edu/~rehmi/pengachu/v3_document.htm "project pingachu - cheap wireless for everyone"
08:22 < kanzure> haha pingachu
08:22 < kanzure> pengachu
08:23 < fenn> mems accelerometers are cool though
08:23 < technologiclee1> cool   i'm rady for a different call then   - and all ugraded and everything - i just use opportunities as..... incentive
08:24 < technologiclee1> well   reschedule if you can - or whatever it takes to make and keep the contact
08:25 < kanzure> yep, will do
08:25 < fenn> how does russell know rehmi?
08:25 < fenn> oh he lives in boston nm
08:25 < kanzure> russell has his fingers in a lot of pies i think
08:25 < kanzure> but he doesn't act like it
08:26 < kanzure> graduate school does that to you i guess?
08:26 < fenn> rofl
08:26 < fenn> "Our Little Skunkworks
08:26 < fenn> (or how to do this without Neil knowing)"
08:27 < kanzure> the guy with a lathe in the back of his car at h+ summit said that neil is an ass
08:27 < kanzure> "you have to watch out, or he'll gersh up your paper"
08:27 < fenn> meaning what exactly?
08:27 < kanzure> "he thinks he is the best thing to happen since god created the earth"
08:28 < kanzure> takes copious amount of credit, etc.
08:28 < kanzure> *amounts
08:28 < fenn> that comes with the job
08:28 < fenn> your hard-on for hod lipson is misdirected
08:28 < kanzure> dunno. was funny though. "before he gershes up your paper"
08:28 < kanzure> so now i say "matt is campbellizing my ideas"
08:29 < fenn> that's a different phenomenon
08:29 < kanzure> no kidding :/
08:29 < fenn> reality-distortion field
08:29 < fenn> well pengachu is pretty cool too
08:30 < fenn> i wonder if exists or is vaporware
08:31 < fenn> i guess it exists
08:31 < fenn> "show me the cad files" is like my new mantra
08:31 < kanzure> does anyone ever show you the files?
08:32 < technologiclee1> did you catch the 'transbody transmission of power and info' paper off that guys parper list? http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6211799.PN.&OS=PN/6211799&RS=PN/6211799
08:32 < kanzure> babak? sounds familiar
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08:33 < technologiclee1> rehmi
08:33 < kanzure> no it lists in the "inventors" some guy named babak
08:34 < fenn> kanzure: no usually they get all offended when i ask to see their so-called open source code
08:34 < fenn> or simply don't write back at all
08:34 < fenn> fuck even my aunt sort of brushed it off
08:35 < fenn> couldnt find the source for "flowerpower"
08:35 < technologiclee1> yes, rehmi is also listed
08:35 < kanzure> it's too bad we can't punish individual developers for lying about their "open source" projects
08:36 < kanzure> "dave rauchwerk owes me one open source bicycle design"
08:36 < kanzure> actually any design at this point
08:39 < technologiclee1> fenn:  what is the electron beam source for that mirror coater?
08:39 < fenn> guh.. one of those bits of gunky metal
08:40 < technologiclee1>  i see that  ,   is it like an electron gun from a CRT?
08:40 < fenn> it's not in the photo labeled 'e beam source' - that's for cleaning the glass before coating
08:41 < technologiclee1>  ok thanks - that explains it
08:41 < fenn> oh i'm looking at it wrong.. the titles are above the thumbnails
08:41 < technologiclee1> ohhh
08:42 < technologiclee1> that dosn't look like one either...
08:42 < fenn> in the very last picture it is probably that gold cylinder with the yellow cap
08:42 < technologiclee1> who knows - anything can be made into a cathode / anode
08:43 < fenn> right
08:43 < fenn> supposedly that was a 1kW e-beam
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08:44 < technologiclee1>  sure - the t.v.s   i've opened have trandformers for that much and more
08:44 < fenn> what kind of tv?
08:44 < fenn> 1kw is like a toaster
08:44 < technologiclee1> all    kinds   i've opened many to get at the electron gun
08:45 < technologiclee1> i've  openud up unity from several decades
08:45 < fenn> eh well i ought to go to bed
08:46 < technologiclee1> my google alert for diamond synthesis turned up an expired patetent for Carbon Vapor Deposition
08:46 < technologiclee1> alot of basic tech is going into the public domain now
08:47 < fenn> i'd love to see your captcha breaker figure out this email addy http://www.tinkerhack.com/male.htm
08:47 < technologiclee1> you know - we have trains running thu austi  - shipiing containers can be had fairly cheap
08:47 < kanzure> hrm
08:48 < fenn> shipping containers are like $2k
08:48 < fenn> and then you have to ship them
08:48 < kanzure> trey says he can get us a semi-truck for <$5k
08:48 < fenn> i think it only makes sense if you are right on a port, like bay-area is
08:48 < fenn> LA is also a port city tho
08:48 < technologiclee1> i already have trouble w/ captchas - and i'm supposed to be human
08:48 < kanzure> i'm working on a captcha breaker
08:49 < technologiclee1> i've seen them for $500 w/ teak floors
08:49 < kanzure> at the moment it is wired up to http://decaptcher.com/
08:49 < fenn> you can see the dock cranes from boxshop
08:49 < Utopiah> technologiclee1: you can have people fill them for you (not free though)
08:49 < technologiclee1> if you know a trucker....
08:49 < kanzure> Utopiah: that's what i do :)
08:50 < technologiclee1> Utopiah:  fill them with what - just goods?
08:50 < technologiclee1> i've worked on the docs - i uloaded containers for 2.5 days solid once
08:51 < kanzure> utopiah is talking about captchas i think
08:51 < kanzure> you can have people fill in the captchas for you
08:52 < technologiclee1> heck   i couldn't get someone to urinate on me if i was on fire - 
08:52 < Utopiah> technologiclee1: (I think most of those links were shared here before) http://pixprofit.com/ http://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-usa-08/Grossman/bh-usa-08-grossman-evans-getrich.pdf http://captchaking.com/ https://www.getafreelancer.com/projects/Data-Entry/capcha-night.html http://www.lafdc.com/captcha/ (and the classic https://www.mturk.com/ )
08:52 < fenn> you can pay an indian to urinate on another indian for $0.01/hr
08:53 < kanzure> Utopiah: are those cheaper than http://decaptcher.com/ ?
08:53 < technologiclee1> anyway - one would still need a place to put any structure - and then all the utilities
08:53 < kanzure> haha craigslist captcha entering service
08:53 < fenn> i dont know if they offer fire putter outing services
08:53 < kanzure> 1k for $39/mo? wtf
08:53 < kanzure> that's so extremely high
08:53 < kanzure> holy shit i should just hook that up to decaptcher and make a fortune
08:53 < Utopiah> kanzure: I didn't really use them, I just keep them as an example of new business model based on human/robot distinction
08:53 < kanzure> how do i become someone to enter captchas for captchaking.com ?
08:54 < fenn> 1) fly to malaysia 2) have a plastic surgeon transform you in to a 12 year old girl 3) get abducted by human traffickers 4) ??? 5) PROFIT!
08:54 < technologiclee1> cptchas suck - if i have to solve something i want to learn somthing from it like a vocabulary word
08:55 < Utopiah> (plus also http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2009/04/socially-adjusted-captchas.html )
08:55 < technologiclee1> ya i've seen thats what they call micro work now
08:56 < fenn> ok bedtime for realz
08:56 < Utopiah> technologiclee1: like AWS Turk, have other platforms? maybe crowdsourcing ones?
08:56 < kanzure> Utopiah: i was thinking of using turk for entering in datasheets and getting out "well-formatted" data
08:57 < kanzure> $1/pg of a data sheet. what do you think? will the turkers do it?
08:57 < Utopiah> AFAIK as it costs you 0 to post the tasks so you can "check the temperature" freely
08:57 < Utopiah> also consider (link coming)
08:58 < technologiclee1> heres a search - i do not think you would bother after doing 1K tho http://www.google.com/search?q=micro+work+captch
08:58 < kanzure> oh they cost 0 to post? didn't know
08:59 < technologiclee1> but this means that these people have access to the net....   so how do they get started
08:59 < Utopiah> How to run experiments on Mechanical Turk The technical details, tutorials, walk-throughs, Decision Science News December 2009  http://www.decisionsciencenews.com/?p=1206
08:59 < kanzure> Utopiah: i have been playing with fivesecondtest.com today
08:59 < Utopiah> kanzure: double check but I think so, you only pay when you validate a task and then amazon get its share
09:00 < kanzure> http://fivesecondtest.com/test/qGVIC6Ar
09:00 < kanzure> it can be slow at times but i got some good data like this: 
09:00 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/screenshots/one-time-offer-results.png
09:00 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/screenshots/my-name-email-results.png
09:05 < davemenn1nger> technologiclee1: to answer your question for earlier:
09:06 < davemenn1nger> we have a makerbotcurrently and are working on a mendel
09:06 < davemenn1nger> also we are trying to design and build a tabletop size cnc router
09:06 < Utopiah> like for cloud technology, Im afraid that Amazon while cast a shadow on every competitors, i.e. now micro-work = Amazon Turk
09:07 < davemenn1nger> one of our memebers actually designed a new stepper motor driver board to use on various reprap and other cnc projects
09:07 < davemenn1nger> i am currently working on fleshing out this overview page:
09:07 < davemenn1nger> http://wiki.hive13.org/index.php?title=Hive13_CNC_Projects
09:09 < technologiclee1> davemenn1nger:   niiice
09:12 < technologiclee1> what kinds of things do you plan on routing at a tabletop size?
09:12 < kanzure> davemenn1nger: have you heard of mechmate?
09:13 < davemenn1nger> i was thinking thin plywood, like the makerbot frame is made out of
09:13 < technologiclee1> have you seen this little router robot> it has speed and precison - and walks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quN37YskoaM
09:13 < davemenn1nger> also someday maybe lasercut acrylic, but not sure about that one
09:13 < davemenn1nger> hmm, mechmate, no i dont think i've seen that one before
09:14 < kanzure> it's an "open source" 11x6 router table
09:14 < davemenn1nger> oh yeah, the hexapod rules - really cool
09:14 < kanzure> http://mechmate.com/
09:14 < kanzure> you can get a PDF of DXF diagrams from that site. but not the raw DXF files
09:15 < davemenn1nger> i see
09:15 < technologiclee1> in that vid - it routes a face out of syrofoam
09:15 < davemenn1nger> does it self-replicate?
09:15 < davemenn1nger> what material is it built out of?
09:15 < kanzure> the mechmate does not self-replicate.. it requires some controllers, etc.
09:16 < kanzure> steel
09:16 < davemenn1nger> ok, still cool though
09:18 < technologiclee1> what we need is a bot that can be turned loose at a garbage dump and can replicate - the segulls have mastered this
09:18 < technologiclee1> that also know how to hang out at a taco stand
09:18 < technologiclee1> thay*
09:19 < technologiclee1> really  - all the parts and materials are there
09:19 < kanzure> segulls can live and breed on a garbage dump?
09:19 < kanzure> like have we tracked segulls that are born and die and never leave the dump?
09:19 < technologiclee1> ohhhhh  ya   like a flying cloud
09:20 < technologiclee1> i did not track them but they are always there - rodents too i bet,   cats dogs - 
09:20 < technologiclee1> they have no reason to leave
09:24 < technologiclee1> but i'm serious - here is the chew chew gastrobot - runs on converting meat to electricity http://www.seanbaby.com/news/gastrobots.htm
09:24 < technologiclee1> so take that and the heaxabot router - and replication can not be far away
09:26 < kanzure> so, fenn and i started skdb because we wanted self-replication
09:26 < kanzure> the problem is that when you add a new item to a self-replication design, you might be importing new unknown dependencies
09:26 < kanzure> freitas wrote a book on this actually
09:26 < kanzure> and he showed that if on average you are importing dependencies that import additional dependencies that are not already satisfied, then the series is unbounded
09:27 < kanzure> he represented it as a power series, in particular a p-series
09:27 < technologiclee1> the one with rabbits on the cover
09:27 < kanzure> so what skdb helps us do is write an algorithm to go over the data and figure out which tools can build which tools
09:27 < kanzure> instead of randomly choosing
09:38 < technologiclee1> the problem with replication seems to be the metal parts. there was mention on Open Manufacturing about high voltage metal sputtering - i forget the term used
09:40 < technologiclee1> if we took scrap metal and disolved it in acid - maybe it could be used as a feed stock - that would cut out the whole smelting and casting steps
09:41 < technologiclee1> also the technique is reversible like electroplating/ and whatever the opposite of that is called
09:43 < technologiclee1> i saw a system somewhere that could deposit very small ammounts of metal - or if the voltage was reversed - electrochemically etch a similar small volume
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09:55 < technologiclee1> well - we started off with hands stick and rocks and made it to computers and spacecraft - but now we know and can take a shorter path - so what is the shortest path?
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09:59 < kanzure> yep that's the right question
10:07 < technologiclee1> all the makebot and all that are dealing with bulk material at the macroscopic level - the oly things we know to replicate - life - operates at a much smaller level
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10:09 < technologiclee1> which suggest a cellular approach
10:14 < technologiclee1> here is the optical tweezer blog - the newest article is about a conveyor for molucules - which i think they have been doing for awhile
10:14 < technologiclee1> http://opticaltweezers.blogspot.com/
10:15 < technologiclee1> anyway once one does have replication - then the question is ho to make macroscopic objects out of it - coral does a good job - you can see them from space
10:17 < technologiclee1> here is that Open Manu thread - one of it's names is thermal spraying http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_thread/thread/2e6085649d174e38/3d93407d8daf8f8c?lnk=gst&q=metal+beam#3d93407d8daf8f8c
10:18 < technologiclee1> nasa has started using it - i think - so we can make parts and tools in space
10:19 < technologiclee1> ok so - if you have a cnc thermal sprayer - it should be able to make most of it's own parts - what would be missing? transformers (magnets)
10:24 < kanzure> http://gnusha.com/
10:25 < technologiclee1> looking at the electro plating and electro chemical etching i saw this atricle on STM tips http://www.mse.engin.umich.edu/research/projects/232
10:26 < technologiclee1> are you sure - google doesnt find
10:26 < technologiclee1> gnasha - gunsha?
10:27 < technologiclee1> maybe it is just down right now
10:27 < kanzure> it hasn't propagated yet
10:29 < kanzure> but it looks like this: http://fivesecondtest.com/test/nR5qw7_w
10:31 < technologiclee1> ok i did 3 - i think i failed   ; )
10:32 < technologiclee1> am i a micro worker now?
10:32 < kanzure> i think so :(
10:32 < technologiclee1> actually all these searches and conversations and thinking - i consider my work
10:32 < kanzure> you're a migrant micro worker
10:33 < kanzure> lee, i was going to have some people over at noon to work on an unrelated project, you're welcome to show up if you want some company while you're typing
10:33 < technologiclee1> yep    born in the back of a greyhound bus  - not really but close enough
10:33 < kanzure> we even have a separate room
10:33 < technologiclee1> sweeet    no - i'm in therapy for aspurgers - i need to be around pplz  ; )
10:34 < kanzure> what's wrong with aspergers?
10:34 < technologiclee1> if you could send your address tho - i'm best when i see a map
10:34 < kanzure> technologiclee1: http://bit.ly/2cxPYj
10:34 < technologiclee1> nothing - it's a joke and i do not think it is a disease - it think it is a state of mind
10:35 < technologiclee1> perfect   whats the project?
10:36 < technologiclee1> i guess i'll   find out...   )
10:36 < kanzure> haha yes :)
10:36 < technologiclee1> damn -- wish the laptop would wake up
10:36 < technologiclee1> maybe a nice drive will do it good - it likes the truck
10:37 < technologiclee1> but i  have take the desktop to cofee shops and bars before ...
10:38 < technologiclee1> i'll   bring some chips and whatnot
10:39 < technologiclee1> (for me)  ; )
10:42 < technologiclee1> a rep rap could not handle the conditions of thermal spraying....
10:43 < technologiclee1> hey   mahbe hplus roadmap should be logged and popsted somewhere
10:43 < technologiclee1> just an off the cuff remark could count as prior art
10:43 < kanzure> it is
10:43 < kanzure> it's not posted on a regular basis though
10:43 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/hplusroadmap.log.tar.gz
10:43 < technologiclee1> and there are not many patents that truly are non - obvious
10:44 < technologiclee1> thats fine as lond as the folks at   Articleone.com can find it  ; )
10:44 < technologiclee1> man - i tried doing some patent de....bunking  for them  -   boring
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10:45 < technologiclee1> gnusha is bryan?
10:45 < kanzure> yeah it's just another server i have
10:46 < kanzure> up in portland
10:46 < technologiclee1> ahhh   ok  - i noticed opera will act as a server - is that reliable ?
10:46 < kanzure> opera will act as a server? where'd you see that?
10:46 < kanzure> your ubuntu box is already a server, btw
10:47 < technologiclee1> ohhh   and thanks for just sending me the link to opera - if i knew it was a one click install i would have gone and done it
10:47 < technologiclee1> it was in the intro notes with sharing music and files and stuff   
10:47 < kanzure> oh. no i wouldn't use that
10:47 < kanzure> you can install a web server by doing: sudo apt-get install apache2
10:48 < kanzure> and then files in /var/www/ are exposed to the web (you might have to make that folder)
10:48 < technologiclee1> it is right there on the sidebar with opera unite - Web Server
10:48 < kanzure> superkuh: do you know what he is talking about? i haven't bothered in a while
10:49 < Utopiah> technologiclee1: is "reliable" but it's not very flexible, you are stuck to Opera Unite apps AFAIK
10:49 < superkuh> Opera's unite webserver is nice, but I wouldn't use it.
10:49 < Utopiah> but it's well done in the sense that they provide you a fixed URL, no need to use DynDNS and such things
10:49 < kanzure> what is it?
10:50 < technologiclee1> i am happy to let all my stuff exist 'on the cloud' for now - but when i have something to share...
10:50 < technologiclee1> and i have used apache +sql before
10:50 < Utopiah> kanzure: an Opera httpd plugin that registers your current IP to Opera server and redirects clients 
10:50 < kanzure> does the server only run while opera is running?
10:51 < superkuh> Yes.
10:51 < kanzure> ha
10:52 < technologiclee1> welll - isn't your browser 'always' running?
10:52 < Utopiah> even when you sleep? anyway it's providing a new service to I think it's a good think (even if I stick to lighttpd)
10:53 < superkuh> Unite is for non-technical persons. It is better than having them use social networking sites or free hosts. It is not for someone who knows how to run a webserver.
10:54 < technologiclee1> well yes - i have such a circus going on - sometimes i might just rest my eyes for a few minutes and end up going back to work - or sleep for 12 hours - so my computer runs always
10:55 < kanzure> if your computer is always running, you should just sudo apt-get install apache2
10:55 < technologiclee1> ok    - i am -
10:55 < kanzure> or lighttpd, but i haven't used that much.
10:57 < technologiclee1> where would var/www be   - and do i have to 'turn apache on"?
10:58 < technologiclee1> eeeh   i can look it up when i need it
10:59 < kanzure> no your box will turn it on automagically
10:59 < technologiclee1> hey i found it - i'm starting to get somewhere on the command line -
11:00 < Utopiah> (welcome to the real world)
11:00 < technologiclee1> what the heck - i'll   host some files... !
11:04 < technologiclee1> todays other lesson was killall firefox   
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11:08 < technologiclee1> i can not seem to cut and paste or drag and drop any files into var/www    i gotta use    copy   or  move?
11:09 < kanzure> two ways. sudo the operation, or you can do this: sudo chmod a+rw /var/www
11:09 < technologiclee1> ohhhh   permissions
11:09 < kanzure> by default only root gets to play in /var/www/ so you have to change that with chmod yeah
11:09 < technologiclee1> sudo drag and drop ?   ; )
11:10 < technologiclee1> but i am root  - if i'm gonna mess it up - i'm gonna messit up - typing sudo does not stop me  ;)
11:12 < technologiclee1> haha!    files are hosted!   we have molecular machine parts  and some  BS   NE1 files that i have not simulated
11:12 < kanzure> can you link to your ip address?
11:13 < technologiclee1> for my next stupid question...     70.114.201.242    computer name EV007
11:14 < kanzure> are you sure apache is on? can you run this real quick: sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 restart
11:14 < technologiclee1> so you would actually be linking over the wireless...
11:15 < kanzure> oh you need to modify the router settings then. if you log into the router go to "applications and gaming" or something about "port forwarding" and forward port 80 to your internal computer's ip address
11:15 < technologiclee1> Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1 for ServerName
11:16 < kanzure> try http://192.168.1.1/ or http://192.168.1.10/ to get to the router
11:16 < technologiclee1> mmmm  not my router , but i can hook mine up
11:16 < kanzure> oh
11:16 < technologiclee1> welll   - waht they don't know...
11:16 < kanzure> well anyway, the reason why http://70.114.201.242/ doesn't work is because you're behind a router that doesn't know to forward port 80 to your computer
11:18 < technologiclee1> i'll just go see what kind it is- could be other options...
11:19 < technologiclee1> its just a linsys
11:19 < kanzure> yeah it's probably on http://192.168.1.1/
11:21 < technologiclee1> right - it does not connect and the pings time out
11:21 < technologiclee1> oh   wait  there is a real server in the house...
11:22 < kanzure> oh, try http://192.168.1.10/
11:22 < technologiclee1> that did not connect either
11:28 < technologiclee1> ok i plugged in my wireless router the the linksys
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11:33 < Utopiah> http://freebooksource.com/blogroll/build-your-own-electric-vehicle/
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11:37 < technologiclee3> ok i'm connectec thru my router and  in the routers menu
11:39 < kanzure> well you need to set up port forwarding or "applications and gaming" so that port 80 goes to your computer (so 192.168.. something something)
11:43 < technologiclee3> ok   Firewall > Virtual Srvers   the boxes are Lan (192.168.2.X) Trotocal type (TCP ect) Lanport (80?) Public Port (?)  Enable (checkbox)
11:46 < kanzure> you can figure out which ip address you are by typing sudo ifconfig and looking for 192.168.x.x
11:50 < technologiclee3> i think i'm at 2.2 according to tracerout - do i need to worry about UDP or is it TCP and do i need an entry for public port
11:52 < technologiclee3> and would port forwarding have to be enabled on the first router even if i have it on the second router?
12:11 < technologiclee3> alright tried forwarding port 1111 to 80 an tcp+udp - i'll mess with it some more whrn i get back - headed that way for chips and unrelated projects
12:28 < kanzure> tcp
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12:58 < KrisC> Hello good people. I just learned of this endeavor last night and would love to learn everything.
12:59 < KrisC> I am a reprap maker and 3D modeller who is developpoing a project quite similar.
13:03 < KrisC> I'm scared Anders sandberg will start stealing people's brains in their sleep? 
13:04 < KrisC> (that last bit was a joke to check for life)
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13:28 < ybit> kanzure: hi KrisC 
13:28  * ybit was at work
13:28 < ybit> there is life, i think i think most people are busy atm though
13:28 < ybit> give it a few hours :)
13:28 < ybit> or wait until the weekend
13:29 < KrisC> lol, I only have 10 minutes to get to work myself!
13:29 < KrisC> Perpetual problem, working second shift, for communication
13:29 < KrisC> I am going to try to spend more time next wek, I have off
13:30 < ybit> KrisC: http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/hplusroadmap.log.tar.gz
13:30 < ybit> there's a long that goes i think until october..
13:30 < kanzure> hi KrisC 
13:30 < kanzure> anders has already stolen our brains
13:30 < ybit> we've had quite a lot of new people join since then though
13:30 < KrisC> lol
13:31 < KrisC> if anders created a simulation of our brains...
13:31 < KrisC> yeah, I have some archives to look through, let me add that to this list
13:31 < kanzure> would you mind sharing "the list"? :)
13:32 < KrisC> it's on google wave, or at least the most recent draft
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13:33 < kanzure> hi russell232 
13:37 < kanzure> KrisC: would you mind discussing your mirror ideas?
13:37 < KrisC> by mirrror you mean side by side DB?
13:37 < kanzure> yep
13:37 < kanzure> we want to hear the idea before we corrupt your brain with skdb
13:38 < KrisC> i understand
13:38 < KrisC> context is a dialog, like a search box
13:38 < KrisC> the search is for a good or service. you dont have to know what you want before hand
13:39 < KrisC> so you request an apple
13:40 < KrisC> the local DB looks for how it knows to get appples, therse are pointers
13:40 < KrisC> pointers to the objective DB which is just methods
13:40 < KrisC> if no method is known then peers are asked via a pop-up
13:41 < KrisC> users have trust histories, methods have successful use histories
13:41 < kanzure> have you seen the wiki and presentations for skdb?
13:41 < KrisC> each user is supposed to have a unique rating system so we normalize all results from that users to get relative rankings
13:41 < KrisC> I saw the presentations
13:42 < KrisC> I've been to the wiki, but havent found articles therein, distracted by your personal site bryan
13:42 < KrisC> the advantage of the 2 DB system is it is an evolutionary method
13:43 < KrisC> more popular get pushed to the top
13:43 < KrisC> I don't have an implementation of this yet, trying to work out parsing logic for instruction sets
13:44 < KrisC> and the relative trust value methods
13:45 < KrisC> i got a run in minute or two. questions?
13:45 < kanzure> no not at the moment :) i'm kinda lagging because of some people in realspace
13:46 < KrisC> oh RL
13:48 < KrisC> time for work, I'll be back in 9hrs, and in the later future.  this is great
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13:49 < ybit> kanzure: /names
13:49 < ybit> argh
13:49 < kanzure> hm?
13:49 < ybit> ignore
13:53 < kanzure> ybit: http://gnusha.com/
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13:57 < kanzure> hi gene	
13:57 < kanzure> ybit: how do you like the splash page?
13:59 < ybit> i don't care for the black back ground
13:59 < Utopiah> it's pretty nice but Id be surprised if between this http://openmanufacturing.net/ and other domains, newcomers don't see the relation of each initiative
14:02 < kanzure> i bet
14:03 < ybit> kanzure: i was kind of surprised to see the page though 
14:04 < kanzure> oh?
14:08 < ybit> wow
14:11 < ybit> fenn, is this corrct?
14:11 < randallagordon> wow, gnusha's wite is a user experience nightmare
14:11 < randallagordon> *site
14:11 < ybit> du -sh /mnt/archive 
14:11 < ybit> 38GB
14:12 < ybit> kanzure?
14:12 < randallagordon> I had to view the source to determine that the input box is borderless and contains default text...
14:12 < ybit> :)
14:13 < randallagordon> UI consistancy is important!
14:14 < kanzure> ybit: 38GB?
14:14 < kanzure> fenn deletes a lot of stuff :(
14:14 < ybit> nah,
14:15 < kanzure> randallagordon: good point
14:15 < ybit> that was another drive
14:17 < ybit> i don't think the hdd was recongized
14:18 < ybit> dmesg confirms these suspicions
14:18 < ybit> ata1.00: qc timeout (cmd 0xec)
14:19 < ybit> ata1.00: failed to IDENTIFY (I/O, err_mask=0x5)
14:19 < ybit> ata1: SATA link down (ssTATUS FFFFFFFF SControl FFFFFFFF)
14:20 < ybit> guess i need to play with the bios settings
14:28 < ybit> fenn: what fs, ext3?
14:31 < kanzure> probably
14:32 < ybit> progress! SATA link up ...SATA link down
14:32 < ybit> at least it was up at one point
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14:40 < kanzure> "
14:40 < kanzure> By the way, not sure if you know this, but Nathan (still OM list owner I assume?) seems to have had a big meltdown in the UK (Manchester), and he is still there after the media ecologies conference he went there for,"
14:40 < kanzure> "and no one seems to be able to contact him right now for days, and people are looking for him. Just thought you should know. A lot of people are worried."
14:40 < kanzure> "Vinay and Michel are two people on the OM list that has more first hand knowledge of that, though Smari and Joseph Jackson also have been in the loop some. I did not go to that conference myself."
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15:01 < kristianpaul> kanzure: are you including stripboards designs in the software?
15:01 < kristianpaul> seems to ve universal avaliable stuff i think
15:03 < kanzure> at the moment there is not a stripboard design yet-
15:03 < kanzure> do you mean pcb boards?
15:03 < kanzure> i've been so busy.. electronics definitely definitely needs to be in skdb
15:05 < kristianpaul> kanzure: striped pcb boards
15:08 < genehacker2> what about using that PCB design format, eagle isn't it?
15:08 < genehacker2> the one that pick and place machines use
15:10 < kanzure> i don't know if that's a good format
15:10 < kanzure> gEDA has some format suggestions though, those might be worth it :)
15:12 < kristianpaul> :)
15:13 < kanzure> kristianpaul: have you ever used the gEDA tool suite?
15:13 < kristianpaul> kanzure: tried
15:13 < kristianpaul> for now still kicad
15:13 < kristianpaul> gEDA needs i change my mind a bit, but is really awesome used when you got it
15:14 < kristianpaul> s/used/use it
15:16 < kristianpaul> think i did somthing with gtkwave in the past
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18:12 < kanzure> hi russell232 
18:13 < kanzure> russell232: is it ok if i hold of on replying to your email?
18:13 < kanzure> for a few minutes
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19:20 < ybit> hmm
19:21 < ybit> someone want to map out the activity in the channel?
19:21 < ybit> s/map/graph
19:22 < ybit> and if you do this, share your code please :)
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20:03 < ybit> junkyard jet engine http://www.junkyardjet.com/
20:04 < katsmeow-afk> i almost picked one up, but i spun it by hand, and even that slow it was noisey
20:08 < Martyn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VsOoFCYkz8
20:18 < ybit> kanzure: i would have been more impressed if the guy picked you up in the go-kart :)
20:18 < ybit> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFpsuQ2zI24 :: lamborghini vs go-kart
22:02 < kanzure> kristianpaul: what formats does kicad export?
22:03 < kristianpaul> kristianpaul: genCAD in my version
22:03 < kristianpaul> kanzure: ^
22:03 < kanzure> genCAD is a format?
22:04 < kanzure> it's been a while since i've looked into any of this for gEDA/eagle/kicad/etc.
22:04 < kristianpaul> dont know, i never export in kicad
22:04 < kristianpaul> kanzure: so gerber? :p
22:05 < kristianpaul> kanzure: thats why i poitend stripped boards like an alternative
22:05 < kristianpaul> considering not all people in the world have access to advaced PCB fabrication technology 
22:06 < QuantumG> http://reason.com/assets/mc/jtaylor/stantisdebateover.jpg
22:06 < QuantumG> nice
22:07 < kristianpaul> indeed
22:12 < ybit> ick, looks like you save your files as .net
22:12 < ybit> in kicad
22:17 < genehacker2> quantumg I didn't know you were a climate change denialist
22:19 < QuantumG> I love that label.  "What's your evidence for that claim?"  "Denier!!!"
22:25 < QuantumG> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1476540&cid=30419250
22:25 < QuantumG> sums it up great
22:43 < QuantumG> if you filled a room with sulfur hexafluoride, would people be buoyant?
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22:49 < KrisC> Good day good people
22:51 < KrisC> as per earlier discussion, I have made a list of required or useful features. I will spend the next hour or so rendering them as html
23:02 < kanzure> why html?
23:06 < genehacker2> no QuantumG I like to ignite the powder keg
23:06 < KrisC> pick  a format if not html
23:07 < KrisC> i thought i could just post it quick then
23:12 < genehacker2> and I've been around my parents who think global warming is a hoax propagated by the liberals or something to that effect
23:16 < KrisC> feature list
23:16 < KrisC> Objective and subjective Databases-
23:16 < KrisC> Social Networks-
23:16 < KrisC> Scheduler-
23:16 < KrisC> Local Trade (Barter)
23:16 < KrisC> -Alternate Interface (Magic Mirror)-
23:16 < KrisC> Nutrion Manager
23:16 < KrisC> Nutrtition (sp)
23:17 < KrisC> Inventory Managemnt (you have)
23:17 < KrisC> Contact Manager
23:17 < genehacker2> nutrition manager?
23:18 < KrisC> it calculates a diet for you and makes food thr extrusion mostly
23:18 < KrisC> if you know someoen is oging to feed you on time you will be less likely to snack
23:18 < genehacker2> ugh extruded meat can't be tasting
23:18 < KrisC> this is in support of the goal Life Extension
23:19 < genehacker2> ok
23:19 < KrisC> it is essential that a bread substitute be made avaliable
23:19 < genehacker2> we're a bit far from star trek replicators
23:19 < KrisC> true, but I print food alrady with RepRap
23:19 < KrisC> I just need to be able to schdule it
23:19 < genehacker2> what sort of food?
23:19 < KrisC> goals arent only short term
23:19 < genehacker2> what about ink?
23:20 < KrisC> hoe grown feedstocks will provide for food whenever possible
23:20 < genehacker2> what do you intend to grow
23:20 < KrisC> this system supports a divers e manufacturing base, where someone anonymous in your neighbohood will supply a specific item
23:21 < genehacker2> surely not algae you can't eat algae every day you'll get sick
23:21 < KrisC> auto outsourcing
23:21 < genehacker2> what system?
23:21 < KrisC> i was thinking mostly soy
23:21 < genehacker2> skdb, manna, or something else?
23:21 < KrisC> something else
23:21 < KrisC> I should back up a step
23:22 < genehacker2> maybe I should
23:22 < genehacker2> oh I seem to have missed your description
23:22 < KrisC> no, my name is KrisC. I am new here. I am a maker and modeller, who has been teaching himself a variety of skills
23:23 < genehacker2> oh ok
23:23 < KrisC> in order to create a computer program very much like skdb
23:23 < genehacker2> well that's one of our goals
23:23 < KrisC> my project is a bit more expansive than simply a program, but I believe that you have a much broader agenda
23:24 < KrisC> Explicity, my goals are Space Migration, Intelligence Increase, and Life Extension (SMIILE)
23:24 < genehacker2> be careful you might get version 2.0 madness if you cover everything
23:25 < KrisC> I have recently started a google wave group of some of my acquatances, to whom I am describing this
23:26 < KrisC> I believe I know what I have to do in order to get more people to do what I want. Im going to go collaorative open source, but am checking my ideas with a broader range of my associates
23:26 < genehacker2> yup
23:26 < genehacker2> you're going to need lot's of help
23:27 < KrisC> then I saw the youtube videos, and I said "These people know exactly what I mean" especially considering I have the same gallery of images bookmarked for the very similar project
23:27 < KrisC> Yes, but if I come here and use part of your work, then I have lots of help
23:27 < genehacker2> the Hplus summit presentation?
23:27 < KrisC> Its Open Source :)
23:27 < KrisC> yes
23:28 < genehacker2> yeah
23:28 < genehacker2> have you talked to kanzure?
23:28 < KrisC> briefly
23:29 < KrisC> he can scroll back over this exposition I just provided
23:31 < KrisC> So anyway, let me finish the list of features I believe are essential to create a transformative software app
23:31 < KrisC> there are only a few more
23:32 < genehacker2> ok
23:32 < KrisC> Login Manager must support multiple simultaneous identities
23:33 < KrisC> Trade requires recorded web cam manufacturing
23:33 < KrisC> Contact manager
23:34 < KrisC> and finally, the dream is to have robot arms
23:34 < genehacker2> multiple simultaneous identities can lead to trolling
23:34 < genehacker2> why recored web cam manufacturing?
23:34 < KrisC> there  are legitmate and clandestine uses for the function
23:34 < KrisC> In order to ensure quality of manufacturing
23:35 < KrisC> so someone doesnt spit in your food
23:35 < genehacker2> quality is not always assured by visually watching the process
23:35 < KrisC> true, but it will cut down on causal exploitation
23:35 < KrisC> casual
23:35 < genehacker2> for things like steel you need to do tests on the steel
23:36 < genehacker2> strength testing needs to be done
23:36 < KrisC> true, and of course there is a risk when ordering things off the internet, but we have mechanisms to deal with it
23:36 < KrisC> if you have a webcam you can run a demo
23:36 < KrisC> you can set it as a conditon of trade
23:36 < genehacker2> for stuff like rockets you need to pressure test the fuel tanks
23:37 < genehacker2> sometimes this is a destructive process
23:37 < KrisC> now who is thinking large scale
23:37 < KrisC> for criitical components I would not use an ad hoc network
23:38 < KrisC> let me explain how my program works
23:38 < KrisC> (it doesnt work, i dont have a working model - for me this is 4 or 5 years away by myself)
23:39 < KrisC> it is like a search form
23:39 < KrisC> the user is prompted "I want a..."
23:39 < genehacker2> read up on  human rating things, it'll help with the space migration
23:40 < KrisC> life extension will help with space migration too
23:41 < genehacker2> yes indeed
23:42 < KrisC> I have aerospace engineer friends, I will involve them when the time comes, but I want to have a greater portfolio before then
23:43 < genehacker2> are you a software engineer?
23:43 < KrisC> no, IT manager, though I went to school for materials engineering (platics, and anthropology
23:43 < genehacker2> oh materials engineering
23:43 < genehacker2> just had some classes over that
23:44 < KrisC> i spent several years drawing weather maps, which helped build my modelling skills
23:44 < KrisC> which are merely adequate
23:45 < KrisC> also been a cook, and a game designer
23:47 < KrisC> what are you studying gene?
23:47 < genehacker2> mechanical engineering
23:47 < KrisC> excellent
23:48 < KrisC> relevant interests?
23:48 < KrisC> or irrelevant?
23:48 < genehacker2> reprap, diybio, solar balloons, making stuff, making stuff
23:49 < KrisC> I have been meaning so see what you mean by diybio, but honesly only ffirst heard the term this morning
23:49 < KrisC> looking it up
23:49 < genehacker2> I have an almost full set of darwin parts
23:50 < KrisC> neat
23:50 < KrisC> Isnt there someoen in France who makes things glow in the dark (geneticallly) in France
23:51 < KrisC> got a sequencer off ebay
23:51 < KrisC> hackerspace related something I remeber
23:51 < genehacker2> and I'm working on a printable stepper
23:51 < genehacker2> a sequencer off of ebay
23:51 < genehacker2> WHERE WHERE WHERE
23:52 < genehacker2> sequencers are VERY EXPENSIVE
23:52 < genehacker2> the fact that someone even acquired one for home use is amazing
23:52 < genehacker2> there aren't that many in the world
23:52 < KrisC> yeah, that was part of the story I heard, she got it for some ridiculous price because it was a hospital surplus on ebay
23:53 < KrisC> she was a pro geneticist, who hacked at home
23:53 < genehacker2> hospital surplus are you kidding me, what the heck is a hospital doing with a gene sequencer
23:53 < genehacker2> oh you mean Kay Aull
23:54 < genehacker2> she's been in here a couple times
23:54 < genehacker2> I don't think she has a sequencer just a thermocycler
23:55 < KrisC> possible
23:56 < KrisC> sounded fun
23:56 < KrisC> I have used here as an example in conversation several times
23:59 -!- technologiclee [n=lee@70.114.201.242] has joined #hplusroadmap