--- Day changed Fri Feb 26 2010 00:01 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-34-189.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.177.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06 -!- root_ [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279301017.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:06 -!- root_ is now known as Guest1423 00:07 -!- Guest1423 is now known as flamt 00:16 < kanzure> does anyone have a copy of buechley_LilyPad_adopt.pdf ? 00:24 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279301017.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:25 -!- root [~root@bas2-barrie18-1242455006.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:25 -!- root is now known as Guest68772 00:26 -!- Guest68772 is now known as flamt 00:27 -!- parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40 * QuantumG just inhaled a coffee 00:48 < flamt> due 00:48 < flamt> dude 00:48 < flamt> i forgot about my coffee 00:48 < flamt> you're my caffeine hero 00:49 < QuantumG> see the latest focus fusion post? 00:49 < QuantumG> Preliminary Evidence of Angular Momentum Effect 00:49 < QuantumG> graphs and shit 00:51 < flamt> no! is that plasmoid related 00:51 < flamt> im most skeptical about xray to voltage conversion still but hopeful 00:51 < flamt> hopeful. some big lab is also doing DPF but all that could be cover for classified or black fusion projects you hear rumblings of 00:51 < flamt> the big ones 00:51 < flamt> you know 00:51 < flamt> even eric lerner himself could be 00:52 < flamt> just to draw eyes away. i don't know 00:52 < flamt> but i hope he gets over unity 00:52 < flamt> i think he will 00:52 < flamt> i think he will. 00:52 < fenn> go away 00:52 < QuantumG> yep, they've got data to back up their hunch that putting angular momentum into the field increases the plasmoid heat. 00:52 < flamt> fenn go fuck yourself 00:54 < kanzure> fenn: welcome back? 00:54 < fenn> hi 00:54 < flamt> http://boards.4chan.org/x/res/3648294 almost whole thing is up 00:54 < flamt> implant story for those who care 00:55 < flamt> see grant morrison's story about businessmen driving possess crackheads from the boardroom with vr headset 00:55 < flamt> charles stross's child porn themed story 'generation gap' 00:55 < flamt> and that new comic in hplus one time about rich guys' kids using their android doubles for mischief 00:55 < flamt> all about this very real topic 00:55 < flamt> :) 00:55 < flamt> goodbye ,_, 00:56 < fenn> baypiggies was nice, some things i learned about: clonedigger, searches for copypasta in your codebase. cyclomatic complexity analyzes the number of unique paths possible. and python-restkit which probably sucks 00:56 < kanzure> yeah restkit was mentioned on the baypiggies web page 00:56 < flamt> autospam 00:57 < kanzure> zach, bre and adam have put in a crapload of work into makerbot.com it looks like 00:57 < kanzure> they are either doing it wrong or it's really that hard to sell makerbots 00:57 < kanzure> or they are just playing it up 00:57 < kanzure> not really sure what's going on. 00:58 < kanzure> 1k kits sold, $750/kit, they're on batch 14 (not sure how many per batch) 00:59 < kanzure> that's not really stellar performance 00:59 < kanzure> is it? 00:59 < fenn> no, not really 01:04 < fenn> huh. a transcript of the newbie nugget from baypiggies: http://simeonfranklin.com/blog/2010/feb/25/python-code-quality/ 01:05 < kanzure> "the first reason is that i suck. the second reason is that you suck." 01:05 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-34-189.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:07 < kanzure> what's this about code complexity? huh? 01:13 < kanzure> fenn: what do you think about datapkg's method of just having fake packages all over the place? 01:14 < fenn> i haven't looked at datapkg 01:14 < fenn> what's a "fake package"? 01:14 < kanzure> basically you try to datapkg install and it can't do it because the package is just in name only and isn't actually useful 01:15 < kanzure> i dub those "fake packages" because they might as well not exist 01:15 * Utopiah thinks wget works well but that it's still an interesting effort 01:15 < kanzure> but rufus insits 01:15 < kanzure> *insists 01:17 < flamt> http://arbornet.org/~flamoot/telepathic-critterdrug.html 01:18 < Utopiah> they add a single point of reference, licenses, date of update, format of data, ... maybe it will become really useful with APIs in different languages to use their functions directly within your code (maybe OpenDBX , ODBC, ... in the futur) 01:20 < Utopiah> flamt: if you want to advertises your links out of context, you might want use a trigger script... 01:22 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-34-189.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:24 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-34-189.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:25 < genehacker> flamoot what's this critterdrug thing 01:25 < kanzure> fuck 01:25 < kanzure> NO 01:26 < kanzure> fenn: QuantumG: i get the feeling that freenode doesn't actually have any admins or sysops 01:26 < genehacker> oh shit 01:27 < QuantumG> kanzure: search for a FAQ somewhere I guess 01:27 < kanzure> the FAQ says to register the channel, and i did that 2 years ago 01:27 < QuantumG> surely there's commands that you send to some bot 01:28 < kanzure> you must be a channel operator in order to register a channel 01:28 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1242455006.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.177.44] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:48 < katsmeow-afk> ouch 02:11 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-34-189.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:21 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-34-189.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:31 < katsmeow-afk> so did anyone goto #freenode about the channel? 02:50 -!- QuantumG [~qg@rtfm.insomnia.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56 -!- QuantumG [~qg@rtfm.insomnia.org] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:13 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-34-189.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:38 -!- randallagordon [~randallag@c-76-115-126-45.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:39 -!- randallagordon_ [~randallag@c-76-115-126-45.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:40 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-58-16.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:41 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.177.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:43 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1242454282.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:54 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-58-16.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00 -!- marainein [~marainein@220.253-198-91.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:09 < Utopiah> (BioMoby ยป What is MOBY? http://biomoby.open-bio.org/index.php/what-is-moby/ interoperability between biological data hosts and analytical services) 05:21 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1242454282.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:23 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.179.238] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:31 < fenn> O_o "Hash trees were invented in 1979 by Ralph Merkle" 05:35 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.179.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:37 < fenn> painfully reading http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-google.html (skip down to "tech prep tips") 05:37 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279301249.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:53 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279301249.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:54 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1088759847.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:06 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1088759847.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:07 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.43.202] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:11 -!- hplusbot [ybit@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: Ctrl-C at console.] 06:11 -!- hplusbot [ybit@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:27 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.43.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:29 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.177.59] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:35 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.177.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:37 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279300729.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:38 -!- marainein [~marainein@220.253-198-91.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41 < fenn> blog.okcupid.com is fascinating... actual data on human behavior! 06:42 < fenn> the js graphs are cool too 06:46 < katsmeow-afk> it's all heterosexual tho, so it's skewed somewhat, somehow 06:48 < fenn> they usually provide same-sex graphs separately, if it's relevant 06:53 < fenn> "Either something very sad happens to a woman at 40, or something incredibly awesome happens at 39. Hard to tell." 06:54 < katsmeow-afk> i didn't notice anything 06:55 < fenn> do you have an okcupid profile? :P 06:55 < katsmeow-afk> no 06:55 < fenn> the graph for that one is pretty amazing 06:56 < fenn> goes from 85% "the best days of my life are ahead of me" at 39 to 49% at 40 06:56 < katsmeow-afk> mine hit zero ~30 07:32 -!- Noahj [~noah@ip68-230-157-203.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:44 < fenn> more fascinating data from okcupid: "Generally speaking, the colder it is, the more likely you are to hate yourself. " 07:46 < katsmeow-afk> that's generic depression from being restricted by weatehr 08:10 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279300729.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:11 -!- flamt [~root@65.95.193.58] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:37 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@2001:0:53aa:64c:3001:55a8:52c6:ef50] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:37 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone. 09:09 -!- flamt [~root@65.95.193.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:11 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.133.244] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:16 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.133.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:19 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1178020350.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:27 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1178020350.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:29 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.42.160] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:33 -!- Noahj [~noah@static-155-212-177-51.ri.onecommunications.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:37 -!- Noahj [~noah@static-155-212-177-51.ri.onecommunications.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:47 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.42.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:49 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.42.79] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:53 < kanzure> http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/12/the-empire-bias.html 09:53 < kanzure> (steve's attempt at explaining suresh) 09:53 -!- Noahj [~noah@wsip-70-184-10-225.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:56 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.42.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:57 -!- flamt [~root@69.158.93.101] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:07 < JayDugger> Ah, kanzure, did you post the link you intended? 10:07 < JayDugger> That's from Robin Hanson, not "steve." 10:20 < kanzure> right 10:21 < kanzure> http://www.thingiverse.com/rss/tag:makerbot zach implemented a new feature this morning. woopdiedo 10:23 -!- flamt [~root@69.158.93.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23 < kanzure> i guess i should get over myself and starting making "virtual" skdb packages that have no content / bullshit content (like .stl files) 10:30 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.177.139] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:30 < kanzure> "Yes, I'm bitter. I'm surrounded by pointy-clicky types who insist on procedural thinking when writing queries. Set theory? What's that?" didn't know that happened 10:30 < kanzure> that was re: http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1563946&cid=31284964 10:37 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.177.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:38 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1178020199.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:40 < kanzure> someone just dropped a link reminding me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition 10:41 < kanzure> hm the majority of the links from the last 48 hours that i've come across have been *given* to me 10:41 < kanzure> this is not normal 10:45 < JayDugger> Do you look gift horses in the mouth? 10:47 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1178020199.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:47 < JayDugger> And the fellow complaining of procedural thinking in queries should work where I do. 10:48 < JayDugger> I've a manager who doesn't know the difference between a model and a database and a texture, and only one co-worker who doesn't need "falsifiable hypothesis" explained to him. 10:48 < JayDugger> Complaints come cheap. 10:50 < kanzure> why are people just now learning about http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/03/open-source-har/ ? in the past 3 days i've got more links to this than i would care for.. 10:51 < JayDugger> Think of those incoming links as time trials for meme propagation speed through your social network. 10:53 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1178020125.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:00 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1178020125.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:02 -!- flamt [~root@65.95.193.3] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:07 -!- flamt [~root@65.95.193.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:09 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.41.120] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:15 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.41.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:15 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-104-187.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:16 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.133.189] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:31 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:37 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-104-187.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-104-187.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:44 < Noahj> It's important to look gift horses in the mouth in case they're carnivorous 11:47 -!- parolang2 [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:51 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.133.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:52 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279301292.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:56 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-104-187.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:58 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-104-187.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:18 -!- avicenna [~avicenna@CPE001f5b002fd7-CM00407b859474.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:46 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-104-187.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:47 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-104-187.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:53 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@2001:0:53aa:64c:3001:55a8:52c6:ef50] has left #hplusroadmap [] 13:30 < kanzure> http://www.onnetworks.com/videos/backpack-picnic/farmer-dinner?autoplay=true 13:48 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:56 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279301292.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:58 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.41.59] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:59 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-104-187.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:43 < kanzure> wtf? http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/blogs/postblog/2010/02/emergency-shipment-of-condoms-headed-to-olympic-athletes.html 14:45 < katsmeow-afk> teenagers 14:47 < katsmeow-afk> i liked the comments better 14:55 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-152-109.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:58 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:05 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.41.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:07 -!- flamt [~root@69.158.95.89] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:33 -!- flamt [~root@69.158.95.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:46 -!- Noahj [~noah@wsip-70-184-10-225.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:19 -!- danielfalck [~chatzilla@pool-71-111-53-79.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:37 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-152-109.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:38 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-152-109.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:43 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1242454550.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:00 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-152-109.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:22 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@wireless-128-62-48-37.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:37 < kanzure> can anyone give me a reason to be interested in "the internet of things" other than a sense of FOAF? 17:45 -!- thesnark [~michael@ppp-69-221-1-64.dsl.toldoh.ameritech.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:46 < thesnark> hey kanzure 17:46 < thesnark> that was a nice writeup you had on your facebook 17:46 < kanzure> thanks :) 17:46 < kanzure> are we still doing the eeg project eventually? 17:47 < thesnark> hah, I hope to, yes :) I'm incredibly busy with 2 jobs and school atm =p 17:47 < thesnark> kanzure if things go the right way I will be down there working for somebody this summer 17:47 < thesnark> so we'll be in a close physical proximity 17:48 < thesnark> it will be great to be able to actually discuss and do things in person 17:48 < kanzure> is AIM or OSCAR down? 17:48 < kanzure> hrm 17:48 * thesnark is unsure 17:48 * thesnark tries 17:49 < thesnark> works for me 17:50 < kanzure> hm it works for one of my usernames but not the other 17:50 * thesnark gasps 17:50 < thesnark> they're on to you! 17:54 < kanzure> aha, there it goes 17:54 < kanzure> well that took forever 17:54 < kanzure> anyway, yeah, it'd be good to meet up 18:09 -!- danielfalck [~chatzilla@pool-71-111-53-176.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:28 < kanzure> fenn: aren't you into that? don't you have a rant you can give me about why i should be gaga about "the internet of things"? 18:31 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_of_Things 18:32 < kanzure> how is this not the same thing as stuff like "the global brain" 18:34 < kanzure> holy crap, google did something useful with its social search.. it brought up ybit's link to http://singularityu.org/news/2009/07/david-orban/ 18:35 < kanzure> http://www.zylstra.org/things/2008/11/internet_of_things_and_social.html 18:36 < kanzure> sorry this just doesn't interest me.. am i missing something 18:38 < katsmeow-afk> yea: the reason you are reading things that don't interest you 18:40 < katsmeow-afk> "If all objects of daily life, from yogurt to an airplane, are equipped with radio tags, they can be identified and .... " and i hope the used yogurt is not tracked as intact yogurt 18:42 < kanzure> hm bricophone? 18:49 < kanzure> "I was at CES in Vegas a few weeks back. They were showing microwaves with Android, refrigerators with Android, weight scale with Android. All devices interconnected, talking one to another. All syncing data among themselves" 18:49 < kanzure> ew why would you want your fridge running android 18:49 < kanzure> er, that was from http://www.funambol.com/blog/capo/2010/01/chumby-and-internet-of-things.html 18:49 * kanzure still doesn't get it 18:49 < kanzure> i'd like my fridge to be on the network, sure, but android?? 18:58 < kanzure> http://dorkbot.org/dorkbotaustin/2010/02/austin-hacker-space-opening-soon/ 18:58 < kanzure> opening soon? it's already open. 18:58 < kanzure> .. 19:06 < kanzure> dna breakout: http://www.natasha.cc/image1.htm 19:07 -!- michael__ [~michael@ppp-69-221-2-152.dsl.toldoh.ameritech.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:10 < kanzure> hi michael__ 19:10 -!- thesnark [~michael@ppp-69-221-1-64.dsl.toldoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:11 < michael__> hey, hm I don't know why my name changed 19:11 < michael__> odd 19:11 -!- michael__ is now known as thesnark 20:01 -!- timschmidt [~tim@adsl-76-212-57-34.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:01 < timschmidt> howdy everyone 20:02 * timschmidt is 25 parts into printing a 90 part set of RepRap parts. 20:02 < QuantumG> cool 20:03 < QuantumG> hey tim, what did you think of my link set the other day for metal printing? 20:03 < timschmidt> didn't see it... 20:04 < timschmidt> got it handy? 20:04 < QuantumG> http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_thread/thread/47f7d74778d836b2 20:04 < QuantumG> Bryan Bishop = kanzure 20:04 < QuantumG> Trent Waddington = quantumg 20:08 < timschmidt> I've seen the tech before... it's interesting, but (though I'm sure the knowledge is out there) I haven't seen any easily approachable lasers or high-wattage electron beams or such for hobbiests. 20:08 < timschmidt> making it technically possible for one guy to create something usable from scratch, but hard to get any traction in a collaborative setting 20:11 < QuantumG> don't confuse NASA's overengineering with the concept 20:11 < QuantumG> they're using fill wire to make stuff 20:11 < QuantumG> electron beam welding is just the highest technology way to do it 20:11 < timschmidt> I, for instance, would love to experiment with such a machine, hack on the software for it, etc. But without an existing PCB design for the business end, and easily source-able parts, I'm SOL. 20:12 < QuantumG> what if you used simple arc welding instead and a helium filled work chamber instead of vacuum. 20:12 < QuantumG> the RepRap2 is a "movable platform, fixed head" right? 20:12 < kanzure> mendel? 20:13 < QuantumG> so, put it in a box and flood the box with helium. 20:13 < timschmidt> It certainly sounds simpler... but the same issues still apply. Someone's going to have to educate us non-welders about what to buy, where, and how not to kill ourselves doing so. 20:13 < timschmidt> Mendel (RepRap v2) has a head that moves in Z and Y and a bed that moves in X. 20:13 < QuantumG> replace the head with a mig welder and connect the return lead to the platform 20:14 * QuantumG is a (poor) welder 20:14 < QuantumG> I've done a 3 week course on mig and know how it works 20:14 < timschmidt> I'm working with several others on a gridbeam RepRap skunkworks project to support development of powder printing as well as more robust milling in which the head moves in X, and the bed moves in Z and Y. 20:16 < timschmidt> AFAIK, there are no current repstrap designs in which the bed moves in X, Y, and Z. 20:16 < timschmidt> which is not to say it couldn't be done 20:16 < QuantumG> well, I was imagining the bed moving in XY 20:16 < QuantumG> and the head moving in Z 20:16 < timschmidt> The mcwire functions like that 20:17 < QuantumG> but whatever design works, you're the reprap guy :) 20:17 < QuantumG> point I'm trying to make is, a MIG welder is just a wire extruder 20:17 < timschmidt> very true 20:18 < QuantumG> with voltage running from the wire to the work 20:18 < QuantumG> you could conceivably do it with an unmodified MIG.. only putting the shield gas where the wire is arcing 20:18 < QuantumG> but if you're making a robot it's a lot easier to just put the robot in a box and fill the box with shield gas 20:20 < katsmeow-afk> i would think you'd then accumulate a *lot* of crud in the air in the box 20:20 < katsmeow-afk> it would deposit out and interfere with the welding 20:20 < timschmidt> one thought... welding produces all sorts of fun metal compounds - often as gasses or airborne powders. Plus the shield gas. This would have to be done in a well ventilated area... preferably in a garage or shop setting. 20:20 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, i think the enclosed box won't do 20:20 < katsmeow-afk> plus the heat 20:21 < katsmeow-afk> you'd be dumping 100's of watts, if not kilowatts into the box 20:21 < timschmidt> sure 20:21 < QuantumG> yep, all of those fumes come from either: the workpiece, or the inability of the shield gas to block 100% of the surrounding air from getting into the arc 20:22 < katsmeow-afk> Quantum, plus vaporised metals 20:22 < QuantumG> the wire doesn't vaporize 20:22 * katsmeow-afk has a different opinion 20:22 < timschmidt> Another thought... you'd have to invest in a quality 100% duty cycle welder. Lincoln or the like. Harbor Freight welders seem to be 20% duty cycle or similar. 20:22 < QuantumG> when was the last time you welded anything katsmeow? 20:22 < katsmeow-afk> the otehr day, i have a growlbox and a wirefeed 20:23 < katsmeow-afk> :-P 20:23 < katsmeow-afk> you have obviously not seen my boat webpages 20:23 < timschmidt> I'm not attempting to shoot holes in the idea... just thinking through the details. 20:24 < QuantumG> ya, I think "try it" is the best way to think through the details.. but maybe others disagree. 20:24 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1242454550.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:24 < katsmeow-afk> tim, best to sort it out in your head, it's cheaper than sorting out the hardware 20:24 < QuantumG> people do this stuff manually 20:24 < timschmidt> "try it" before thinking about whether or not to have good ventilation gets you dead. 20:25 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, building up an object by laying beads down is common, just not in a sealed box 20:25 < QuantumG> who said anything about a sealed box? 20:25 < katsmeow-afk> [20:19] but if you're making a robot it's a lot easier to just put the robot in a box and fill the box with shield gas 20:25 < QuantumG> yep, did I say sealed? 20:26 < QuantumG> what I said was "box" and "helium tent" .. 20:26 < timschmidt> it's implied if you want to keep your shield gas around 20:26 < katsmeow-afk> [20:12] what if you used simple arc welding instead and a helium filled work chamber instead of vacuum. 20:26 < katsmeow-afk> chamber and "able to contain vaccumn" implies sealed 20:26 < QuantumG> it's not like I invented helium tent welding 20:27 < QuantumG> sigh.. shall I explain helium tent welding? 20:27 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.133.186] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:27 < kanzure> QuantumG: there's not many search results on google for it, so yes 20:27 < katsmeow-afk> heck, in an open space in winter with forced air vent, i've had 4ft dia steel that was too hot to touch for an hour, i don't think you want that much heat in a box 20:28 * QuantumG stops talking now 20:28 < kanzure> QuantumG: please explain tent welding 20:28 < QuantumG> I dunno why this channel has to be so confrontational all the time 20:28 -!- QuantumG [~qg@rtfm.insomnia.org] has left #hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 20:28 < kanzure> fuck you too 20:28 < katsmeow-afk> me too, i am obviously all wrong, there's no reason the shielded arc gun was ever invented 20:29 < timschmidt> there's nothing confrontational about figuring out the particulars of an idea... 20:30 < katsmeow-afk> i suspect overall, keeping the environment the way you want in the box/tent/whatever will cost you more in many terms than using a regular helium flow wirefeed gun in the open 20:30 < timschmidt> ok 20:31 < timschmidt> RepRap already has the ability to do cooldown pauses between layers... I see no reason something similar couldn't be done for this 20:31 * katsmeow-afk nods 20:32 < katsmeow-afk> skip welding will tend to get the temperature down for the same heat input too 20:33 < timschmidt> And it's not as if laser sintering is energy efficient... additive construction of metal objects is obviously worth the power budget for many things. 20:33 < katsmeow-afk> keeps my boat ribs from warping, and allows me to keep welding, pausing only to powerbrush slag off 20:34 < timschmidt> color me curious... I'd like to build a bigger machine (than a mendel) from metal bits before testing it though. 20:35 < timschmidt> I assume the welder has some sort of trigger? A circuit we can just hack a fet or something into in order to get extrusion control... Are there different speeds? 20:35 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, and yeas 20:35 < timschmidt> speed control is a pot generally? 20:35 < katsmeow-afk> yeas 20:36 < timschmidt> hmmm 20:36 < katsmeow-afk> it's just a low voltage feedback to the 12v feed motor's pwm controller 20:36 < timschmidt> even better 20:37 < katsmeow-afk> and fwiw, those feed motors look susiciously like some windshield wiper motors 20:37 < timschmidt> Sounds very reprap-compatible. 20:37 < katsmeow-afk> the guns with the 2lbs spools on them have smaller motors, of course 20:38 < timschmidt> I bet you could hack one onto a set of stock reprap electronics without so much as an added circuit, and even use the stock software stack to produce usable output. Maybe not _great_ output, but something recognizable. 20:39 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, you can buy the entire gun assy for a current source for cheap, if you build the wire feed and gas handler, and you already have the current sourse 20:39 < timschmidt> current is rough. pretty much every RepRap uses a stock PC power supply because they're cheap, and powerful enough. But that won't work for a welder. 20:39 < katsmeow-afk> i think the gun is $200 at HF , ordered as a repair/replacement part assy for their wirefeed welders 20:40 < katsmeow-afk> order it from Miller and it's $900 20:40 < timschmidt> and am I right in assuming that the duty cycle of the welder is essentially determined by it's power supply? 20:40 < katsmeow-afk> yeas 20:41 < katsmeow-afk> the new switcehrs will run all day at full output, no problem 20:41 < katsmeow-afk> the older hunky 240v 60hz transformers need cooldown time 20:41 < timschmidt> should be do-able then. Where does one acquire such a power supply, and importantly, helium? 20:42 < timschmidt> or argon or whatever 20:42 < katsmeow-afk> i buy from Airgas South, but thelocak yellow pages fromt he telco can be a friend 20:42 < fenn> nuclear fusion reactor 20:42 < katsmeow-afk> Airgas S can get me whatever gas or mix i want, in many sizes, leased tanks or purchased 20:43 < timschmidt> fenn: a nuclear powered fabber of any sort would be quite nice to have... post-apocalyptic fabbing, here we come! 20:43 < katsmeow-afk> i don't use the wirefeed so much lately, but i keep an account open for oxygen tanks 20:44 < timschmidt> and the power supplies? 20:44 < katsmeow-afk> generally, you buy them, you can make them, you can even use a slightly modded growlbox as a source 20:45 < katsmeow-afk> different people have different preferences, some build everything, yo can find lots of stuff with google 20:45 < timschmidt> fair enough 20:45 < timschmidt> what would you expect to pay for a decent one? 20:45 < katsmeow-afk> you will need lots of voltage compliance to keep the current in your ballpark as you move the wire moves, the plasma moves, etc 20:46 < katsmeow-afk> hmm, i haven't priced them in 25 yrs, i dunno 20:47 < katsmeow-afk> a wire feed all set up with fancy options and ready to plug in and use, very power efficient, 1 yr guarantee, etc etc, prolly $2000 20:48 < timschmidt> not too terrible 20:48 < timschmidt> building the pinchwheel wire feed mechanism should be hard. Lots of experience with that sort of system within the RepRap community. 20:48 < timschmidt> shouldn't 20:48 < katsmeow-afk> ask at your local friendly arc welder repair/sales place, see if they have something used in 20yr old technology they can throw you,,, but agian, the newer the better 20:49 < katsmeow-afk> the pinch system needs to accommodate a range of wire guages,, if you use a range of wire guages 20:50 < timschmidt> right... not too much of an issue 20:50 < timschmidt> plus, with this sort of system, I think you could get away with a single wire gauge. 20:50 < katsmeow-afk> you definitely want high voltage arc start circuit, and arc stabilisation circuit 20:51 * katsmeow-afk nods, i use only one guage 20:51 < timschmidt> It's pretty much single purpose. Not exactly asking it to weld any two random pieces of metal together. 20:52 < timschmidt> OK, I'm going to be AFK for a while. Off to help another reprapper 20:53 * katsmeow-afk draws dirty pics of 74abt374 and 74ac32's and things 21:11 -!- chupacabra [~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-123-173.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15 -!- chupacabra [~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-123-173.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:44 -!- chupacabra [~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-123-173.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:46 -!- marainein [~marainein@220.253-200-35.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:49 -!- thesnark [~michael@ppp-69-221-2-152.dsl.toldoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:51 -!- Noahj [~noah@pool-173-76-119-94.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:53 -!- chupacabra [~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-123-173.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:00 < kanzure> durr? jerry just sent an email to om because he's discovered a new programming language called QT 22:01 < katsmeow-afk> QT is new? 22:03 < kanzure> not at all.. 22:03 < kanzure> :( 22:04 -!- chupacabra [~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-123-173.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10 < kanzure> i wonder what's next? 22:10 < kanzure> "jerry discovers `ls`" 22:10 < kanzure> or "jerry discovers ncurses" 22:13 < kanzure> well at least he didn't reinvent the wheel. i'll give him that 22:41 -!- flamt [~root@70.50.133.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:43 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1242454053.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:53 -!- parolang2 [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1242454053.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:57 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.41.105] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:01 -!- chupacabra [~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-123-173.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:09 -!- flamt [~root@64.229.41.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:11 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279301365.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:22 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279301365.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:24 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279301571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:24 < fenn> this guy is my new hero: http://okcupid.com/profile/RyogaVee/pictures 23:30 < fenn> or should i say "hiro" 23:33 < kanzure> i can't stop laughing :( 23:33 < kanzure> my face hurts 23:35 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279301571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:37 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1177727105.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:44 < kanzure> still laughing 23:46 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:50 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1177727105.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:50 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/tags incomplete view of it (it's not counting people that have been written down only once) 23:50 < kanzure> and obviously some of this seems to be off 23:50 < kanzure> like, ybit never was talking about oct-tree 23:50 < kanzure> and "john minarcik" was never talking about austin hacker association 23:51 < kanzure> yeah wait, this is all wrong 23:51 -!- flamt [~root@bas2-barrie18-1279300792.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:56 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/tags2 hrm. what's with the dupes 23:58 -!- chupacabra [~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-123-173.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]