--- Day changed Mon Mar 08 2010
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01:07 < kanzure> fenn was there any reason other than ikiwiki's terrifying configuration and setup procedure that i stopped looking into it?
01:07 < kanzure> it didn't have abnormal conf stuff but it was finicky
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02:56 < fenn> hmm i gotta figure out a better way to transcode than handbrake GUI (the CLI version doesnt seem to work)
03:05 < fenn> ikiwiki sucked in general.. only interpreted markdown and files named .mdwn and lack of plugins or general niceness
03:05 < fenn> on top of being confusing as all hell
03:05 < fenn> hm this net connection still sucks
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06:14 < Utopiah> http://www.gaaglebot.com/ Gaaglebot AJAX Controlled Roomba Robot For Indexing
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11:16 < kanzure> fenn: ikiwiki has a huge list of plugins now (i checked yesterday)
11:21 < kanzure> got an accepted-talk email from http://texaslinuxfest.org/ this morning
11:25 < kanzure> hm i'll have to prepare a "why not use dpkg, apt-get, .deb, or .rpm etc." slide for the talk
11:26 < Utopiah> "a wiki compiler" ?
11:27 < kanzure> most wikis are "dynamically generated"
11:27 < kanzure> ikiwiki takes the wiki pages and generates .html (basically)
11:27 < kanzure> this .html is only regenerated when the page is updated
11:28 < kanzure> instead of parsing the wikitext each time a page is loaded
11:28 < Utopiah> ok, which is nice if the wiki is not too dynamical and doesn't provide cache I guess
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12:15 < kanzure> fenn: http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1574394&cid=31398210 "Trouble is, left to my own devices, I effectively "stay up" 4 hours later each night untill I wrap back around. Before I had a job I could actually live like that. It was kind of a strange sensation brushing my teeth with my roommate at midnight; She was going to bed, i just got up."
12:20 < fenn> i bought some melatonin yesterday; we'll see what happens
12:20 < fenn> if anything
12:20 < kanzure> my dad tried it once and so we always had the bottle left over, i would try it every once in a while on those sleepless nights before school bullshit.. never did a thing for me
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12:47 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Biological_clock_human.PNG
13:41  * katsmeow-afk sugegsts that pic is useless, even after disregarding the 4-armed quadruped figure in the middle of it
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13:42 < katsmeow-afk> i learned 20 yrs ago, if that quadruped is on it, it's garbage
13:42 < kanzure> hello jrayhawk 
13:42 < jrayhawk> Howdy howdy howdy.
13:42 < katsmeow-afk> it's like "helps your immune system" or "seats up to 12"
13:42 < kanzure> so, piny/ikiwiki stuff
13:42 < kanzure> fenn: are you around? utopiah?
13:43 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 36 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 36 normal]
13:44 < jrayhawk> Don't worry, I know exactly what he'd say!
13:44 < jrayhawk> <fenn> Please do lots of work on piny for jrayhawk!
13:44 < jrayhawk> <fenn> also give him a million dollars
13:44 < kanzure> you do such a good impression of him
13:44 < jrayhawk> Thanks, fenn! Good advice!
13:44 < kanzure> you know you're the first person to ask for a million dollars from me.. i'm surprised these other buttheads haven't asked for money yet
13:45 < jrayhawk> That wasn't a request!
13:46 < katsmeow-afk> kanzure, i want $250k to hire 5 people for lite coding and data entry for a year
13:46 < kanzure> you never tell me what you're up to because it's "super secret" :(
13:50 < jrayhawk> Whereas I'm perfectly willing to tell you what I'm doing that deserves a million dollars.
13:50  * jrayhawk farts
13:50 < kanzure> jrayhawk: so, i'd like to have "hardware packages" in .git repositories, and then display various metadata about the project, maybe after parsing whatever the user has typed up for the package details/pages
13:50 < kanzure> i think this can still work within the compile-the-pages-to-html mindset
13:51 < jrayhawk> You could either make a new compiler plugin for it or just make your metadata in the form of ikiwiki directives.
13:52 < kanzure> hm http://ikiwiki.info/plugins/contrib/ymlfront/
13:52 < kanzure> one feature i wanted to do was have users upload or type out lists in giant <textarea> elements for what they have in their inventory, 
13:52 < jrayhawk> and the rest of http://ikiwiki.info/users/KathrynAndersen/
13:52 < kanzure> then check their list against the records and suggest possible hardware packages that sound like their stupid nicknames for their precious tools
13:53 < kanzure> (i.e. my mom calls it a 24" sander, but someone else calls it a disk sander, ..)
13:53 < jrayhawk> I want a 24" belt sander.
13:53 < kanzure> and i'm not sure how to integrate "stuff like dis" into it
13:56 < jrayhawk> How that data gets used determines how viable ikiwiki is for this.
13:57 < jrayhawk> There are a number of usable search engines that can have a limited level of integration with the Ikiwiki interface, but not so much with the engine itself.
13:57 < fenn> linbjive0
13:57 < jrayhawk> So things like "inline anything that includes the text 'sanders'" isn't really an existing feature.
13:58 < jrayhawk> "inline anything that includes a metadata directive 'sanders'" works fine, though
13:58 < kanzure> this would probably be a command line tool that i end up integrating into whatever web interface we end up with
13:58 < jrayhawk> so if you're willing to force users to actually use those directives, that'd work
13:58 < jrayhawk> Ah, I see.
13:59 < jrayhawk> There'd probably be need for manual cleanup of their directives in order to be coherent, but the command line tool would probably work, yeah.
14:00 < kanzure> fenn: would it be accurate to call it a webside storage for lazy bums who don't want to let software on their local system maintain /var/cache/apt/ or where-ever dpkg keeps downloaded/installed package information 
14:00 < kanzure> or at least for web-exposed access to dpkg-for-hardware backend stuff
14:00 < kanzure> except packages are .git repositories and distributable
14:01 < kanzure> hm maybe that's just feature creep
14:03 < kanzure> so anyway, ikiwiki+git is important because it exposes individual packages, and the "dpkg/skdb" tools let the user play with the data, and having that exposed over the web is important, but in a compiled-content-only scenario that might not be appropriate, so i guess that's what i'm trying to pick your brain about
14:03 < jrayhawk> Are you already invested in the dpkg/apt distribution model?
14:04 < kanzure> somewhat, is there an alternative
14:06 < jrayhawk> A number of them, but thinking about their level of optimality is hard and not worth my time if you've already got a good thing going with your current model.
14:08  * kanzure looks at dpkg-www
14:08 < kanzure> http://packages.debian.org/lenny/dpkg-www
14:08 < kanzure> "You can list packages, show package information and installed files, browse documentation and navigate through the packages dependencies. You can also find all the packages owners of a file or directory or those providing a virtual package. "
14:08 < kanzure> "If you are the system administrator you can also install or remove packages by clicking on the buttons found in the package info page, provided that this feature has been enabled and you have properly configured your web browser. "
14:10 < fenn> how does that work exactly?
14:10 < jrayhawk> I, uh, think you're looking at it, actually.
14:10 < jrayhawk> Oh, the installation part
14:10 < kanzure> not according to http://packages.debian.org/about/ - it claims it's a custom codebase:      git clone http://source.djpig.de/git/packages.git 
14:11 < jrayhawk> oh okay
14:11 < kanzure> also i probably just misunderstood fenn
14:11 < fenn> bah
14:11 < kanzure> er, misunderstood joe
14:11 < kanzure> whoever you people are
14:11 < jrayhawk> "install or remove" probably works by associating application/x-debian-package with synaptic
14:12 < kanzure> hah
14:12 < kanzure> i would expect it to be backend cgi stuff
14:12  * kanzure installs
14:13 < jrayhawk> Anyway, the more closely you can align yourself with the usual dpkg/apt stack, the less work you'll wind up needing.
14:13 < kanzure> for some reason we're not using dpkg directly
14:13 < kanzure> and i can't remember why
14:14 < jrayhawk> Have you been paying attention to Saurik's woes?
14:15 < kanzure> http://www.saurik.com/id/1 bringing apt to the iphone?
14:16 < jrayhawk> Yeah. He decided to avoid the debian mirror software/hosting and go with some crazy cloud thing of his own devising for its architectural superiority.
14:17 < jrayhawk> I know he was still having problems with it after several *years*, and I don't know if it's working right yet.
14:17 < jrayhawk> That's the sort of trouble you're probably going to get yourself into with this ikiwiki plan.
14:17 < kanzure> http://www.saurik.com/id/2 packaging issues with apptapp
14:18 < kanzure> i'm glad someone has stepped up and stabbed iphone in the face for all the stupid craze about "an app store!!!1"
14:18 < jrayhawk> Saurik is a buddy of Steve's from Harvey Mudd, as I recall.
14:19 < jrayhawk> oh, ucsb, i guess
14:19 < jrayhawk> so hard to keep track
14:19 < jrayhawk> But I guess if you're diverging as far as not even using dpkg, you might already be doomed to stabilize your own infrastructure requirements.
14:20 < jrayhawk> At which point using a different model might be a good idea. I'd have to think about that.
14:20 < jrayhawk> If you can work out what caused you to drop it, that'd be helpful.
14:21 < kanzure> < fenn> oh, the problem with apt/dpkg is it requires root access and modifies the running OS
14:22 < jrayhawk> apt-get source doesn't
14:22 < fenn> and the dependency model is all wrong for hardware/manufacturing because we can't simply instantiate free copies like with software
14:22 < jrayhawk> Ah.
14:23 < jrayhawk> Do you have a more thorough description of the dependency model?
14:24  * fenn grumbles about 8 minutes  latency chat
14:24 < kanzure> poorly formatted: http://designfiles.org/skdb/doc/architecture
14:25 < kanzure> (yay we have an "architecture" file! hoorah)
14:26 < jrayhawk> ah, interesting
14:29 < jrayhawk> Yeah, this is a shitload more complicated than traditional dependency problems. I think I'll ask some smarter people about this.
14:30 < kanzure> fenn: tonok, ralith and theorbtwo in #reprap convinced me to drop my STL-fears in exchange for the concept of a "linker" strategy to generate the "binary blob objects" (like meshes) from either "source code" (like pythonocc, openscad), IGES/STEP, DXF/STL, etc., into a final composited file
14:32 < kanzure> this doesn't help get rid of STL, but it does force STL-users to use the work flow where- eventually- they might realize that "binary object blobs" (STL meshes) aren't as useful as having source code to compile
14:39 < kanzure> hey wait a second, i've been conned. that mainly helps maintain the STL status quo
14:48 < fenn> "composited file"??
14:48 < fenn> i've learned not to listen to ralith
14:49 < kanzure> "composited file" means ""everything that wasn't STL has been converted to STL and plugged together to make a single final rendering"
14:49 < CIA-47> skdb: kanzure * r 5ed50b3 /octopart.py: altered header information on octopart.py
14:49 < kanzure> s/rendering/mesh/
14:55 < kanzure> 18:48 < Ralith> kanzure: you haven't named a SINGLE thing that skdb needs that STL doesn't provide.
14:58 < jrayhawk> do curves just not exist in his universe
14:58 < jrayhawk> or colors
14:58 < jrayhawk> or surfaces
15:01 < kanzure> jrayhawk: projects like reprap.org and makerbot.com use STL to spit out plastic objects
15:01 < kanzure> thus those users think "well it works so therefore bryan is just an ass"
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15:01 < kanzure> and i probably am, but..
15:02 < fenn> turning everyhting into stl is totally useless
15:02 < fenn> i can do that already
15:03 < fenn> rawr
15:03 < kanzure> well he was trying to point out that (1) CNC machines largely only accept STL, or programs that spit out gcode largely only accept STL (?), (2) skdb mainly just needs the models for visualization so STL is fine
15:03 < kanzure> but #2 does *not* help with re-use and parametric redesign
15:03 < fenn> how the fuck do i concatenate avi files without it breaking
15:04 < fenn> do i *really* have to transcode to mpeg2 first?
15:04 < fenn> this is nuts
15:05 < kanzure> one sec
15:06 < kanzure> hm i don't seem to have the command any more
15:07 < kanzure> i do remember doing this though: mencoder marcin-jakubowski-hplus-summit-2009.flv -ovc copy -o marcin-jakubowski-hplus-summit-2009-2.flv -oac mp3lame
15:09 < kanzure> ooh a nice list of computational protein modeling stuff (recent papers): http://rosettadesigngroup.com/blog/619/literature-review-040310/#more-619
15:09 < fenn> cat * > big.avi; mencoder -ovc copy -oac copy -o out.avi -forceidx big.avi
15:10 < fenn> i wonder why that was so hard to find
15:15 < jrayhawk> Most people use ffmpeg directly, nowadays.
15:21 < fenn> you'll pry mplayer from my cold dead hands
15:26 < fenn> some people have ice cream for breakfast, some people have it for lunch
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15:49 < kanzure> hey thesnark 
15:50 < thesnark> hey kanzure
15:56 < kanzure> thesnark: i got an emotiv epoc headset the other day
15:56 < kanzure> have been trying to crack their data protocol (since they don't have linux drivers etc.)
15:56 < thesnark> kanzure oh wow
15:56 < kanzure> here's 1min of recorded data: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/kanzure_emotiv_epoc_egg.dat
15:56 < kanzure> maybe you'll have better luck at it than i did
15:57 < thesnark> kanzure we're just rewriting the firmware for the chip
15:57 < thesnark> kanzure without encryption
15:57 < kanzure> what chip
15:57 < thesnark> haha right I should probably specify
15:57 < thesnark> The one that does the encryption though...if you really want I can fetch the datasheet but yeah
15:57 < thesnark> we have a programmer, the sdk and a spare chip
15:57 < kanzure> er context?
15:57 < kanzure> are you talking about emotiv?
15:57 < thesnark> yes sir
15:58 < kanzure> which sdk do you have
15:58 < thesnark> the chip in the headset that encrypts the raw data
15:58 < kanzure> are you sure it's encrypted?
15:58 < thesnark> the sdk is for the chip we're writing forware for
15:58 < thesnark> it is encrypted, yes
15:58 < thesnark> firmware*
15:58 < kanzure> emotiv sells three or four different SDK .dll files .. which one do you have
15:58 < kanzure> how do you know it's encrypted
15:59 < thesnark> because emotiv says it is and people that I know who have tried writing their own software from the ground up for it have said it is
15:59 < kanzure> um
15:59 < kanzure> meanwhile emotiv could just be saying that, and the other people could have just hit a brickwall and assumed it was encrpytion
15:59 < kanzure> *encryption
15:59 < kanzure> sorry, i don't really believe it
16:00 < thesnark> why is it hard to believe?
16:00 < kanzure> because it's easier for emotiv to claim it's encrypted (fuck, that's their *business model*)
16:00 < kanzure> than for them to actually have done it ;)
16:00 < thesnark> haha dude the chip that we're replacing is specifically designed for encryption
16:00 < kanzure> which chip
16:00 < kanzure> context..
16:01 < thesnark> fine one second
16:04 < thesnark> http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en024664
16:04 < thesnark> thatg
16:04 < thesnark> is what the EPOC uses for encryption
16:04 < thesnark> How do I know this? I haven't taken my headset apart but I have seen photos of dissassembled headsets
16:05 < thesnark> with closeups of this chip
16:05 < kanzure> so are they using a symmetric or asymmetric key technique
16:05 < thesnark> I don't care what method they're using because we're writing firmware that doesn't encrypt anything
16:06 < kanzure> looks like they might be using AES or triple-DES
16:06 < kanzure> how are you flashing the firmware?
16:06 < thesnark> we're not, we're reprogramming a new chip and leaving the original alone
16:06 < thesnark> although
16:07 < thesnark> there are definitely pins for flashing the firmware
16:09 < thesnark> it's all explained in the datasheet
16:16 < fenn> all i see is a DSP, which would make sense in an eeg device
16:16 < fenn> where do you get "specifically for encryption" from?
16:16  * fenn hastily applies tact to hsiis previous messages
16:17 < kanzure> fenn: all of your messages are being sent at the same time
16:17 < kanzure> which is weird since we're on the same damn server
16:17 < kanzure> i do see some SHA-1 strings in the .dll file.. hm..
16:18 < kanzure> what's some common .NET encrpytion function/class names that i should search for?
16:18 < fenn> my connection is for shit the last few days, occasionally it reconnects and since the ip stays the same the ssh session to davinci is still going, so it sends everything i've typed (blind) at the same time
16:19 < kanzure> ah i see
16:19 < kanzure> i would expect menlo to have better access
16:20 < fenn> fiber to every home etc? sorry this is still america
16:21 < kanzure> don't you have LOS to like, most of the root servers?
16:22 < fenn> though there are 13 wifi ap's i could probably hack into if i tried
16:22 < kanzure> gasp! hacking! ("password:" "hm.. 123?")
16:22 < fenn> nah just airsnort or aircrack or whatever it's called these days
16:25 < kanzure> they are using this: http://www.cryptopp.com/
16:27 < kanzure> yep it's AES
16:28 < kanzure> QuantumG: how would i track down where a symbol in a .dll file is called? presumably it will be called with either (1) a const char array for the key, or (2) a pointer to the key
16:30 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/emotiv/epoc/possible_AES_keys.txt
16:30 < kanzure> what do you think?
16:42 < QuantumG> you mean dynamically?
16:43 < QuantumG> put a 0xcc in it and run the code
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17:13 < kanzure> jrayhawk: somehow i ran into http://legacy.saurik.com/net/exemplar/ a few seconds ago
17:13 < kanzure> saurik gets around i guess?
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18:39 < jrayhawk> Oh yeah, I forgot about his "losslessly decompilng .NET" project
18:40 < QuantumG> need pdbs to get local variable names
18:40 < QuantumG> that's about it
18:41 < QuantumG> oh, and inferring control flow is hit and miss
18:41 < QuantumG> while vs for, etc.
18:41 < kanzure> i just need to steal the AES key and that's that
18:41 < kanzure> are .NET .dll files finicky, er, any more than .dll files usually are
18:42 < kanzure> i'm guessing they compiled the key into the program.. they seem to be that brand of stupid
18:42 < QuantumG> .net dll files contain CIL, and linking is done through the CIL tables, not the native export table (unless you export something natively of course)
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19:39 < katsmeow-afk> this may be useless : http://www.med.upenn.edu/gcb/index.shtml
19:47 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
20:55 < kanzure> you guys are boring
20:55 < JayDugger> What did you want earlier today, kanzure?
20:57 < kanzure> just wanted to know if you had finished downloading the nature dump
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21:25 < superkuh> kanzure: the nature dump is 32GB, not 60. I'm pretty sure my indices match up with those I saw on the server and the full thing was mirrored. By the way, did you ever find out how to make wget not replace files on 404 with --output-document ?
21:27 < kanzure> 30GB is right. Someone else asked about that yesterday and I had to double check and confirm it.
21:28 < kanzure> no news on wget though
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22:05 < JayDugger> superkuh, won't the --no-clobber option do that?
22:05 < JayDugger> I think that breaks --mirror, though.
22:10 < superkuh> I think '--no-clobber' is used to not replace existing files, going to $x.1 $x.2, etc. In my use there will always be an existing file that needs to be replaced but one I do not wish to overwrite if the URL is 404 for a bit. (http://superkuh.ath.cx/spaceweather.pl)
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22:29 < JayDugger> Good night, all.
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22:46 < kanzure> superkuh: what is http://superkuh.ath.cx/users/superkuh/meh/duckpants_sm.jpg doing in spaceweather.pl?
22:47 < superkuh> Heh. I had my wgetrc file set to do 30 retries from when I was on shakey wifi. One server in particular would go down randomly and stall my script for those 30 tries of a minute or two each. If I removed the item it would mess up the number sequence for naming. So I put in that image as a placeholder and just removed it's associated number from the html.
22:48 < genehacker> did he finally finally send a message to that telescope?
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22:56 < kanzure> http://nathanmccorkle.com/projects/pics/PDMS_spectral_response.png
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22:59 < genehacker> http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/03/being-able-to-see-through-opaque.html
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23:11 < kanzure> http://pastebin.com/EGMQMkvK
23:15 < superkuh> Oh, I figured that out.
23:16 < superkuh> My 'new additions' script was taking 20 minutes to go through the added nature dump, so I needed to exclude it.
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23:25 < kanzure> superkuh: the text files in the nature dump are indices of the files, so you can probably just tack those on to your new additions script if you really, really wanted to.
23:27 < superkuh> I don't. I'd prefer to keep new additions uncluttered. -not -path \"/home/superkuh/www/Library/001-Nature/thesplit*/*\" worked.
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