--- Day changed Tue Mar 09 2010
00:04 < fenn> bah i picked the one time youtube is down to upload something
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01:00 < kanzure> fenn: were you able to make the SF blue-obelisk dinner meetup?
01:03 < fenn> isnt that like march 20th? i totally forget either way
01:04 < fenn> ritual mutilation of a cockroach: http://www.flickr.com/photos/48181031@N05/
01:04 < kanzure> it might have been last night
01:05 < kanzure> wtf is a "ganglionizer"
01:05 < kanzure> "the idea was to hook electrodes up to the roach so that it could wirelessly control the robot,...  "
01:05 < kanzure> "
01:05 < kanzure> "cyber roach exo-exoskeleton
01:05 < kanzure> " YES
01:08 < kanzure> lava lamp centrifuge: http://neil.fraser.name/hardware/centrifuge/
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01:12 < fenn> i have some videos which might be more explanatory, but youtube is being a bitch
01:12 < fenn> they're in ~ /home/fenn/www if you want to see
01:12 < kanzure> youtube always takes forever to upload
01:17 < kanzure> damn it i want a cyber roach robot army now :(
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01:23 < kanzure> hm skdb seems to be referenced here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobless_recovery
01:23 < kanzure> this feels like paul fernhout
01:28 < genehacker> that was ybit I think
01:29 < genehacker> whoa
01:29 < genehacker> fenn you're doing that?
01:29 < genehacker> that's awesome
01:40 < fenn> no that is tim marzullo's, i'm just playing with it
01:40 < genehacker> oh
01:40 < genehacker> looks diy though
01:41 < fenn> btw i toured livly/biocurious/whatever and fixed eri's bike in exchange for some cookies
01:41 < fenn> john doesn't want me to share pictures though so i won't
01:42 < fenn> they have a pretty nice pipetter/plate changer robot
01:44 < fenn> what's joseph jackson's friend "alex"'s last name?
01:45 < kanzure> er i need some more context
01:45 < fenn> neuroscience guy, glasses, hippie beard, beret
01:45 < fenn> i guess i'll just ask him next time
01:46 < fenn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV2msfieZ3E
01:46 < fenn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWxUbtYvilI
01:49 < kanzure> wtf i didn't know jackie chan did singing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t80k2sBZmY
01:50 < kanzure> fenn: it might be alex hornstein <bridgewalker@gmail.com>
01:51 < kanzure> http://artiswrong.com/projects.html doesn't seem to be much neuroscience stuff going on here
01:51 < kanzure> http://www.meetlie.com/
01:52 < kanzure> oh that's right, he's from nublabs and is alec's partner in crime
01:52 < kanzure> he's probably too elitist to know joseph
01:53 < kanzure> does anyone else think that chan video might be star wars kid in disguise?
01:55 < fenn> nope, thanks anyway
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02:03 < fenn> ok here's the actual spikerbox demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bvFJev6yOM
02:05 < fenn> i guess my transcoding is not quite right because it processes after uploading instead of continuously like last time when i uploaded the aquarium stuff
02:06 < genehacker> aquarium of the bay is sort of weak sauce compare to the Monterey bay aquarium
02:07 < genehacker> MBARI has an underwater tele-research-station watchamacallit in the underwater canyon which is sort of cool
02:07 < fenn> yeah but it's still cool.. do they have tunnels in monterey?
02:08 < fenn> how come i can't tag youtube videos with cc license?
02:08 < genehacker> I believe so
02:10 < fenn> hmmm. "Auto-captioning combines some of the speech-to-text algorithms found in Google's Voice Search to automatically generate video captions when requested by a viewer. The video owner can also download the auto-generated captions, improve them, and upload the new version. Viewers can even choose an option to translate those captions into any one of 50 different languages"
02:11 < fenn> i'll believe it when i see it
02:12 < genehacker> http://www.mbari.org/mars/
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02:34 < kanzure> fenn: how is emlyn o'regan already subscribed to you on youtube?
02:34 < kanzure> oh, you're following emlyn
02:34 < kanzure> nevermind
02:36 < kanzure> the rate encoding from a cockroach leg is pretty neat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC-Swg3vsa4
02:51 < fenn> it was from the wave invite
02:52 < fenn> i dont think blowing on the leg is a very good demo
02:52 < fenn> it just sounds like he's blowing into the microphone
02:53 < fenn> which is what is happening, if you think of the leg as a microphone :\
02:54 < genehacker> a living microphone? Combine it with flesh acoustic transducers and well... ughh
03:00 < fenn> i was also here yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wmgM-CrKEA
03:01 < fenn> i'm not good enough to do origami behind my back
03:59 < genehacker> http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/
03:59 < genehacker> superluminal computing
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13:29 < fenn> this one's for katsmeow-afk: http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/a/8/4/1/global_13423073.jpeg
13:59 < fenn> i realized i can automatically transform my lifelog data into a sql database and make a django based website for it
14:03 < kanzure> http://mysite.verizon.net/tedgoertzel/Singularity2010.html
14:03 < kanzure> fenn: yeah but what's the advantage of that?
14:04 < fenn> i get to learn django without boring myself to death
14:08 < kanzure> 22:41 < kanzure> i hate to say it, but a front-end to your log parser or something
14:08 < kanzure> 22:41 < fenn> nah that doesn't make sense
14:21 < kanzure> http://42coffeecups.com/
14:29 < kanzure> yesterday hardly anyone wanted to talk with me
14:29 < kanzure> for some reason everyone and their dog- within the first 10min of me waking up- wants my opinions and advice
14:29 < kanzure> can't you guys distribute the load :(
14:50 < fenn> when was 22:41 approximately?
14:51 < fenn> i just had the most perverted idea in the shower
14:51 < fenn> and i'm totally going to do it, even if it takes years
14:52 < fenn> this is what happens when you get foreign words stuck in your head
14:53 < fenn> beware, american children
14:53 < fenn> learn a foreign language and it will parasitize your soul
15:03 < fenn> i guess i should make a bloggish while i'm at it, and back-date some entries
15:04 < parolang> fenn: What language you learning?
15:11 < kanzure> somebody wants to pay me to go to singularity university
15:11 < kanzure> should i go?
15:12 < Utopiah> if you 1st goal is SKDB and going there would make it progress more than not going, then go.
15:15 < Utopiah> btw will you go to the conf on genetic programming with John Koza ?
15:20 < fenn> japanese
15:20 < fenn> why is skdb the 1st goal?
15:20 < Utopiah> "if"
15:21 < fenn> doing something that matters is my first priority; if that's skdb or not is hard to determine
15:22  * fenn mumbles some incoherent utilitarianism
15:22 < Utopiah> right, and that's for you to determine, it's what makes you unique after all ;)
15:26 < fenn> kanzure: "should i go?" YES!
15:30 < kanzure> why do you say yes?
15:30 < kanzure> just wondering
15:31 < fenn> 1) it blows all your other "business networking" events out of the water
15:31 < fenn> 2) it blows all your other "science people" events out of the water
15:31 < fenn> 3) tbd
15:31 < fenn> and you might actually learn something
15:36 < kanzure> gasp! learnign?!
15:36 < kanzure> *learning
15:36 < kanzure> okay :) good reasons
15:37  * kanzure gets on a conference call with jacob shiach re: icenine (which is basically just gnusha except he hasn't admitted it yet (yes he's read the gnusha business plan doc))
15:39 < fenn> "Stress Outsourced is a networked wearable system that allows users to send and receive massages anonymously. A new type of haptic social networking (or social therapy), SOS allows stressed individuals to send anonymous signals via the wearable to a global social network. In response, individuals within the network calm the stressed victim by sending them a “massage” stroke."
15:41 < fenn> unrelated, "the airborne ultrasound tactile display produces a pressure field in 3D free space"
15:42 < fenn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSf2-jm0SsQ
15:42 < fenn> (demo of ultrasound tactile display)
15:45 < Utopiah> weird http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OT5jQCaM8Y
15:45 < Utopiah> Superpower Promo - Exploring the Extraordinary Power of the Internet - BBC "we are the people of the internet" (and we are kinda shady)
15:47 < kanzure> hm jacob didn't say much
15:47 < Utopiah> (Alpha demo of multi-scale connectome browser http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFXopLd7At8&feature=related 08 March 2010)
15:49 < Utopiah> (bit like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv77bsaD1Sk somehow wonder what's the added value of visualization)
15:52 < fenn> Utopiah: i liked it
15:54 < fenn> the superpower video
15:55 < Utopiah> Ill try to share links to BBC related shows as they show up
15:58 < Utopiah> (Company to sell 'world's first practical jetpack' for $75,000 (w/ Video) http://www.physorg.com/news187374763.html March 9, 2010 by Lisa Zyga)
15:58 < fenn> ~that's not a jetpack
15:59 < fenn> still that's surprisingly cheap
16:00 < kanzure> heh someone told me to contact knome for them, and i had to contact ari
16:00 < kanzure> but it turns out i sent ari an email last october 
16:00 < kanzure> i cold called him and he remembered me \o/ "oh you're that guy who's taking over the world"
16:02 < fenn> i dont get why they're using a piston engine (2 liter V4)
16:04 < bkero-legacy> Hehe, honda engine
16:05 < kanzure> the downside: when i sent ari an email after i met him that first time, i signed my email "Specialist, World Domination"
16:05 < kanzure> so yeah..
16:05 < fenn> eh?
16:06 < kanzure> he didn't reply to my email so i kind of thought i layed on the "specialist, world domination" bit too hard
16:06 < kanzure> but anyway, he seemed kind enough over the phone
16:06 < kanzure> (today)
16:08 < fenn> "Cute Circuit: While moving through a city or environment the person wearing the system receives audio files, that are dynamically adjusted in volume to create a tridimensional audioscape depending on the direction or objects they are looking at."
16:08 < kanzure> O.o
16:08 < fenn> we need this for navigating code
16:08 < kanzure> what would that feel like
16:08 < kanzure> or er
16:08 < fenn> i had this idea years ago for displaying radar info
16:11 < fenn> hmm cute circuit just plays audio files, it's not actually creating an "audioscape" out of 3d surface information
16:12 < fenn> it would be interesting to use otoacoustic emissions as a means of controlling a radar emitter
16:22 < kanzure> http://singularityu.org/apply/#gsp
16:22 < kanzure> "Which of these 10 tracks do you consider yourself to be most expert?"
16:22 < kanzure> "Which of the 10 Tracks, other than that Track listed above would you desire to learn most about?"
16:23 < kanzure> um..
16:25 < fenn> spamming isn't on there?!
16:26 < fenn> "spam studies"
16:27 < fenn> i guess networks and computing is pretty close huh
16:34 < kanzure> ha ha
16:34 < kanzure> ": Bigelow Aerospace seeks professional astronauts to fill permanent"
16:35 < kanzure> http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPATH=JELGF3RI&je=myrec&APath=1.39.21.0.0&jrjob=true&sc_cmp2=10_JobMat_JobDet&Job_DID=J8G1NC5XTZWKB1BYLVG&ff=39
16:35 < fenn> "we have developed a glove embedded with accelerometers, magnetometers, and a controller. When the glove operator taps Braille codes using his/her fingers, the controller maps them to ASCII codes. Conversely, when ASCII codes are sent to the operator, the controller maps them to finger-vibration-Braille codes."
16:36 < kanzure> finger-vibration eh?
16:36 < kanzure> i wonder how the braille tapping works. is that just a way of saying "chorded keyboard magic" or 'literally draw out the dots'?
16:36 < kanzure> also, where are you getting this from?
16:40 < fenn> grinding.be
16:41 < fenn> braille is a matrix of dots, so presumably they traverse the x axis in time and the y axis over the 4 fingers
16:41 < fenn> i'd much rather learn braille than some arbitrary chording map
16:42 < fenn> i like this picture, i think i'm going to frame it: http://bp3.blogger.com/_nIWiKIscZJY/R7-dUMl6nbI/AAAAAAAAAk4/gxrWd8Jn6bU/s1600/0aelecrtromshjoi9.jpg
16:58 < katsmeow-afk> source?
17:04 < fenn> better image: http://www.susannahertrich.com/html/risk.html
17:04 < fenn> tineye didn't find that for some reason
17:05 < fenn> apparently it's part of an installation that charges you with static electricity in proportion to the threat
17:05 < fenn> http://www.susannahertrich.com/html/realitychecking.html
17:06 < fenn> oh i guess the images aren't quite the same
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17:38 < fenn> the alex i was asking about last night: http://www.meetup.com/DIYbio/members/6937509/
17:42 < kanzure> hm i've seen that face before
17:44 < fenn> he usually wears a golf cap
17:48 < fenn> damn ustream seriously blows
17:49 < fenn> so, html5 will allow video without flash? finally
17:49 < fenn> http://www.youtube.com/html5
17:55 < fenn> still uses way more cpu than mplayer
18:07 < jrayhawk> youtube uses h264, which is only compatible with Safari/Chrome as far as I know.
18:07 < jrayhawk> You probably want to use thoera, which has compatability with all webkit/xulrunner browsers.
18:08 < jrayhawk> http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/ahl/vid/ has a bunch of videos encoded using for i in $(ls *.avi | cut -f 1 -d .); do ffmpeg -i $i.avi -vcodec libtheora -b 1200000 -acodec libvorbis -ac 2 -r 60 $i.ogv; done
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18:16 < fenn> h264 plays fine in mplayer, why do you think it's only "compatible with safari/chrome"?
18:17 < fenn> i can open a downloaded youtube file and have it play in firefox, if that means anything
18:17 < fenn> .mp4 file (and .flv file)
18:19 < jrayhawk> I mean, in terms of web publishing.
18:20 < jrayhawk> As in "you do not need to require consumers to download a plugin in order to watch video", which was the whole point of HTML5
18:20 < jrayhawk> I don't know exactly what your use case is.
18:23 < fenn> you used to have to download a flash plugin (still do, technically speaking)
18:23 < fenn> do safari/chrome come with built in video playback software?
18:24 < fenn> and why can't firefox just include gstreamer?
18:24 < fenn> probably some legal bullshit
18:24 < fenn> in which case i don't care
18:26 < kanzure> hm http://singularityu.org/programs/curriculum/
18:28 < jrayhawk> You only need IE users to download a plugin at this point.
18:29 < jrayhawk> Yes, Safari/Chrome come with ogv and mp4 support, Xulrunner/Gecko come with just ogv support.
18:29 < jrayhawk> Er, xulrunner/webkit
18:31 < kanzure> "# Advisor: Mike Linksvayer, Vice President of Creative Commons " hmm
18:31 < fenn> kanzure: they have a lot of impressive "advisor" names but who are the actual teachers?
18:32 < kanzure> those *are* the teachers 
18:32 < kanzure> dunno about the "co-chair" people though
18:32 < fenn> uh, no way
18:32 < kanzure> because frankly i'd love to be taught by freitas and merkle
18:32 < kanzure> yesway
18:32 < fenn> peter norvig is teaching a class?
18:32 < kanzure> yeah, there's lots of google integration in the program apparently
18:33  * fenn contemplates stealing kanzure's identity and keeping him in a box
18:34 < fenn> you'd probably like that too much
18:34 < kanzure> http://singularityu.org/people/faculty-advisors/
18:34 < kanzure> like the box too much or singularityu.com?
18:34 < fenn> the box
18:34 < kanzure> kind of impressive what you can get done when you have deep pockets
18:35 < kanzure> wtf atilla teaches there?
18:35 < kanzure> *attila
18:36 < fenn> bioinformatics
18:36 < kanzure> yeah but i didn't know people thought highly enough of him to put him on the lst
18:36 < kanzure> *list
18:36 < kanzure> "Tom Wujec, Autodesk Fellow" hmm
18:37 < fenn> oh, i guess it _is_ a partial listing
18:37 < kanzure> if i do this, i'm going to have to have a stalklog
18:37 < fenn> yep
18:37 < fenn> make sure to talk to tim ferriss
18:38 < kanzure> the 4-hour work week?
18:38 < kanzure> it basically amounts to "outsource even brushing your damn teeth"
18:38  * kanzure hasn't read it
18:38 < fenn> sort of
18:38 < fenn> a lot of it is about managing email and separating parts of your life
18:39 < fenn> and implementing automation (based on a human substrate)
18:39 < kanzure> ari almost hired me on the spot when i called him :/
18:39 < fenn> huh?
18:39 < kanzure> from knome.com
18:39 < fenn> what did you say?
18:40 < fenn> how come nobody ever wants to hire me :(
18:40 < kanzure> i wanted to "hire" you, but you never gave me a fucking invoice
18:40 < kanzure> :P
18:40 < kanzure> anyway, ari was saying that they are looking to hire bionformatics people
18:40 < fenn> gah
18:40 < fenn> i am falling behind, it's terrifying
18:40 < kanzure> i mentioned that i'm doing some programming for someone who purchased knome.com services a few years ago
18:41 < kanzure> and he was so excited to hear this for some reason
18:41 < kanzure> woah the price has gone down: http://knome.com/service/knomecomplete.html $68k
18:42 < kanzure> "# A private, in-person roundtable discussion held at the Harvard Club of Boston with Knome’s team of world-leading geneticists, clinicians and bioinformaticians to review your sequence data, present the results of your analysis, discuss the role of genetic variation in the development of disease and highlight the latest research and discoveries."
18:42 < fenn> i thought genomes were down to like $10k now
18:43 < fenn> is their annotation that good that people pay an extra $50k?
18:43 < kanzure> they are lagging a bit
18:43 < kanzure> a few years ago they were $300k+
18:43 < fenn> can i just give them my sequence and pay for the annotation separately?
18:43 < fenn> srsly $50k is a lot
18:43 < kanzure> welll
18:43 < kanzure> see pm
18:46 < kanzure> so yeah
18:51 < kanzure> fenn: re: the $10k/genome sequencing out there in hong kong, i didn't see a "click here to buy" button
18:52 < fenn> hm can you send $10k to hong kong with paypal?
18:53 < kanzure> if they have a paypal account, yeah
18:53 < fenn> so today i assimilated a big stack of business cards.. how do you keep track of all these people?
18:54 < fenn> i should have been keeping track of context from the start..
18:54 < kanzure> meetlog.txt is about the best i've been dong
18:54 < kanzure> doing
18:55 < fenn> how do you write down who the fuck the person is and why you were talking to them?
18:55 < kanzure> basically i have it set up so that each day i can use the person's name as the attribute name and then give them a dictionary of extra values like address, phone number, tags, email address, etc.
18:55 < fenn> this seems like a common enough problem, so it's strange that i haven't heard of any solutions
18:55 < kanzure> when the parser finds a person that is already in the list, it just adds those extra attributes to the Person object
18:56 < fenn> cool, that's about what i'm doing too, or should be doing
18:56 < kanzure> there's solutions for big companies that have to manage their customers (like keeping notes, etc., so that everyone knows what the status is)
18:56 < kanzure> oh i should upload the parser
18:56 < kanzure> i'm really embarrased because it sucks so much
18:56 < fenn> oh is this what "CRM" is?
18:56 < kanzure> *maybe*
18:57 < jrayhawk> CRM is a catchall term for that sort of thing.
18:57 < kanzure> also, http://etacts.com/ and http://designfiles.org/~bryan/1kfriend.ly.pdf
18:57 < fenn> they're always some web 2.0 bullshit so i just completely ignore anything labeled "CRM"
18:57 < kanzure> i haven't seen any CRM web2.0 bullshit yet actually
18:57 < kanzure> anyway, here you go: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/parser.py
18:57 < fenn> thank you
18:57 < kanzure> jrayhawk: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt
18:57 < kanzure> just for context
18:59 < fenn> you should add that to robots.txt so everyone doesn't get spammed
18:59 < fenn> if it isn't already
18:59 < kanzure> how do i add a ~/bryan/thingy/ to robots.txt properly
18:59 < kanzure> (in particular the tilde)
18:59 < fenn> um
18:59 < fenn> it's ~bryan
18:59 < kanzure> er, right
19:00 < fenn> does it not work if you just type the url part?
19:00 < fenn> path part of the url*
19:00 < kanzure> how do i know if it works or not? other than trial and error
19:00 < fenn> wget
19:00 < kanzure> oright
19:00 < fenn> i think wget complains about robots.txt
19:01 < kanzure> i see no complaints
19:02 < kanzure> just uploaded 2010-02-26 to 2010-03-09 for meetlog.txt (as if it matters)
19:02 < jrayhawk> wget complains if you're in a recursive mode.
19:03 < jrayhawk> There's an undocumented option to disable that check, though.
19:04 < fenn> so you are editing meetlog in vim? or is it automatically dumped from a python session or something?
19:05 < kanzure> editing in vim
19:05 < kanzure> i'd have python tools to check my gmail account, irc logs, pidgin logs, etc., except that i really hate how it messes up the yaml ordering
19:05 < fenn> how do you associate names with names after you know the email address? since the address is part of the dict key
19:05 < jrayhawk> User-Agent: *
19:05 < jrayhawk> Disallow: /~bryan/thingy/
19:06 < kanzure> aha, /~bryan/
19:06 < kanzure> fenn: ask again? "names with names" ?
19:06 < kanzure> a name could look like this: joe bloe / irc_handle
19:07 < kanzure> and then also optionally something lke <joe.bloe@gmail.com> any where in the string
19:07 < fenn> heh "laundry room girl"
19:07 < kanzure> the email address is extracted from the string
19:07 < kanzure> the / is used to separate a name from a nickname on the webz
19:07 < fenn> so it's not yaml?
19:07 < kanzure> huh?
19:07 < kanzure> it is yaml
19:08 < jrayhawk> robots.txts are funny to manually look around for since they're usually explicitly denoting things you're not supposed to find
19:08 < fenn> - Ari Kiiriki <akiirikki@knome.com>: ["knome"]  is a list item with a dictionary key pointing to a list with one item (knome)
19:08 < kanzure> yep
19:08 < fenn> hm that made sense in my head
19:08 < kanzure> what's wrong with it though?
19:09 < fenn> say you had an earlier entry: - Ari Kiiriki: ["world domination"]
19:09 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:09 < fenn> how do you connect the two entries?
19:09 < kanzure> the dictionary key could be ponting to either (1) a list (a list of tags), or (2) a dictionary of terms like phone/address/email/nickname/links/blah/blah/blah
19:09 < kanzure> well, the entries are connected by name
19:09 < kanzure> so there's a Person object that is created
19:10 < kanzure> the problem- as you might see- is that ambiguity is not handled correctly
19:10 < kanzure> i.e. what if i know two people named "john smith"?
19:10 < fenn> right
19:10 < fenn> i thought that was why you had the email in the key in the first place
19:10 < kanzure> well, sometimes i know the email, sometimes i don't
19:10 < fenn> instead of just Ari Kiiriki: email: blah
19:10 < kanzure> oh, no
19:11 < kanzure> basically what i've done in the mean time is just number people i know
19:11 < kanzure> "john smith 2"
19:11 < kanzure> or "alter ben" *cough*
19:11 < fenn> you still dont know his name? or is this my alternate personality that only comes out on full moons
19:11 < kanzure> oh, i know ben peterson's name
19:11 < kanzure> but when i talk with you i call him alter ben :P
19:12 < fenn> what do you call me when you talk to him?
19:12 < kanzure> fenn, and sometimes alter ben :)
19:12 < kanzure> oh oh
19:12 < fenn> what happens when you meet another ben? then there's alter ben 1.1 alter ben 2.1
19:12 < kanzure> i once called you "primal ben"
19:12 < kanzure> delta ben :P
19:13 < kanzure> i need a nickname generator for these situations
19:13 < kanzure> kanzure@pikachu:~# python name_picker "ben peterson"
19:13 < fenn> people should just stop naming their kids ben
19:13 < kanzure> ERROR: 20 others identified
19:13 < kanzure> "Would you like 'omega ben'?"
19:13 < kanzure> or something :)
19:13 < kanzure> people should stop naming their kids dave. god damn
19:13 < fenn> upsilon
19:14 < fenn> actually i hate greek letters
19:15 < nsh> aleph neil?
19:18 < kanzure> :)
19:18 < kanzure> fenn: i would appreciate thoughts on how to make parser.py suck less
19:19 < fenn> well it seems rather complicated
19:19 < fenn> i'd probably split it into different files
19:19 < fenn> one for graphing, one for parsing/updating 
19:20 < kanzure> what really matters is "def meetlogr"
19:20 < kanzure> there is no updating on it :( because it messes up the order
19:20 < fenn> messes up the order?
19:20 < fenn> can't you sort yaml by date?
19:20 < kanzure> on the output?
19:20 < fenn> yeah
19:21 < kanzure> worth a try
19:21 < kanzure> and if not, i guess i could just split up the dates by file anyway
19:21 < fenn> i think yaml understands date data types just like alphabetical order
19:21 < fenn> but you could sort in python first and make a list
19:21 < fenn> i might be getting confused with sql or something else
19:22 < kanzure> try this: yaml.dump(yaml.load(meetlog_data))
19:22 < kanzure> and presumably you'll see what goes wrong
19:22 < fenn> i'm 100% certain it's going to be different
19:22 < kanzure> right
19:22 < kanzure> (also meetlog.txt has been under revision control since day one)
19:25 < fenn> i wonder why it errors on line 11142
19:25 < fenn> ah missing comma
19:26 < kanzure> oops
19:26 < kanzure> wait, what? i don't see it
19:26 < kanzure> ah the previous lne
19:26 < kanzure> *line
19:26 < fenn>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/yaml/representer.py", line 125, in represent_mapping
19:26 < fenn>     mapping.sort()
19:26 < fenn> TypeError: can't compare datetime.date to str
19:27 < fenn> so presumably you changed the way you represent dates somewhere in there
19:27 < kanzure> O_o
19:27 < kanzure> try this: log = yaml.load(codecs.open(meetlog_file, encoding="utf-8"))
19:27 < kanzure> although i don't see how that would help with the datetime.date issue
19:27 < kanzure> which version of pyyaml?
19:29 < fenn> (2008, 6, 30), 'description',  
19:30 < fenn> wtf
19:30  * fenn deletes the first line and tries again
19:31 < fenn> you know it doesnt look too bad to me after being dumped
19:31  * kanzure checks
19:32 < kanzure> oh the error was with dumping?
19:32 < fenn> python -c 'import yaml; print yaml.dump(yaml.load(open("meetlog.txt")))'>test
19:32 < kanzure> on yaml.dump i get TypeError: can't compare datetime.date to str
19:33 < fenn> i dunno if you've ever used "kompare" but it's a good way to see diffs like this
19:33 < fenn> delete "description: meetlog"
19:34 < kanzure> wonder why that's still in there anyway
19:34 < kanzure> wow you're right
19:35 < fenn> also you're spelling "john schloendorn" wrong
19:35 < fenn> unless there really is a john schloernborg
19:35 < kanzure> crap
19:36 < kanzure> cool yaml.dump(load of 'test') diff'd to 'test' shows no differences
19:36 < fenn> of course
19:36 < kanzure> although i don't like how it deals with smári et al.
19:36 < fenn> yeah i forget how to make it print unicode
19:37 < kanzure> well, this looks fairly promising
19:37 < kanzure> maybe when i tried it last time i was wearing failpaints
19:37 < kanzure> *failpants
19:39 < fenn> python -c 'import yaml; print yaml.dump(yaml.load(open("meetlog.txt")), default_flow_style=False)'>test
19:39 < fenn> you can actually read the diff on that one
19:41 < kanzure> oh btw the tag tracking code in parser.py doesn't work
19:41 < kanzure> when i print out a list of people that are interested in a certain tag, it's definitely totally wrong
19:43 < fenn> do i know kevin wasson? why is my name listed under his?
19:43 < fenn> oh he must be a MIT PERG guy
19:43 < klafka> PERG?
19:44 < fenn> precision engineering research group
19:44 < fenn> there's a way to make it print the condensed flow style for names only, like you have in meetlog.txt
19:45 < fenn> yaml_flow_style=True or something like that
19:45 < fenn> in the Person class
19:45 < kanzure> fenn: "do i know kevin wasson?" -> "oh" is the exact reason i started this :/
19:46 < klafka> aah
19:46 < fenn> well it turns out i don't know kevin wasson
19:46 < fenn> so there :P
19:46 < kanzure> yeah but you did tell me about him
19:46 < kanzure> or i discovered him via you
19:46 < fenn> i guess
19:46 < kanzure> so anyway, if he screws me over later in life, i'm totally going to blame you
19:46 < fenn> synthetic serendipity
19:46 < kanzure> bwahah
19:47  * fenn counters with the twinkie defense
19:48 < fenn> fascinating, really: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie_defense
19:51 < kanzure> "By this time, the "Twinkie defense" had become such a common term that one lawmaker had waved a Twinkie in the air while making his point during a debate"
19:51 < kanzure> why don't they just waive piles and piles of steamling bullshit?
19:51 < kanzure> *wave
19:51 < kanzure> me and i just don't seem to be gettng along today
19:53 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@195.216.211.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
19:55 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@195.216.211.175] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:57 < fenn> WOAH  "This tiny device attaches to your fingertip, using a camera to translate visual images into feelings by activating a little vibrator attached to the sensitive nerves in your finger. So you wave your hands around and “feel” objects across the street."
19:59 < fenn> it's actually a laser and photodetector, not a camera
20:00 < kanzure> vint cerf "Vice President and Chief Internet Evangelist, Google Inc."
20:00 < kanzure> so it's not just norvig
20:01 < kanzure> "Open Source Program Manager, Google Inc."
20:01 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@2001:0:53aa:64c:2c80:12d9:52c6:ef50] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:01 < JayDugger> Good evening, all.
20:01 < kanzure> hello JayDugger 
20:02 < fenn> no there are a lot of awesome people on that list
20:02 < kanzure> "Senior Mathematician, Google Inc."
20:02 < fenn> i just had to pick one
20:02 < kanzure> norvig is definitely fairly awesome :)
20:04 < fenn> "leopardskin taser with built-in mp3 player"
20:05 < JayDugger> ?
20:05 < fenn> jeez it's huge
20:06 < fenn> still, a taser that charges over USB is kinda cool
20:10 < JayDugger> Where did you find this gadget, fenn?
20:12 < fenn> "
20:12 < fenn> Someone stole your future. Don't you ever wonder who?"
20:12 < fenn> JayDugger: shitty website warning: http://www.designnews.com/article/8233-Taser_Adds_Music_to_Tasing_at_CES_2008.php
20:13 < fenn> via grinding.be sorta (it was in a comment or something)
20:13 < JayDugger> Good Lord...
20:13 < JayDugger> and I thought their "hot pink" grips were silly...
20:14 < JayDugger> Ha! the comment about Carlos's soundtrack fits.
20:17 < JayDugger> I think I'll stick with my phone's MP3 playback.
20:17 < JayDugger> And just wait for an open-source program that works as a taser.
20:17 < JayDugger> After all, I hardly need a flashlight with the right program on my phone...
20:18 < JayDugger> So discharging current is just another software problem, right? (I know, I know,...)
20:19 < nsh> sci-fi recommendations?
20:19 < JayDugger> Greg Egan.
20:19 < JayDugger> Olaf Stapledon.
20:19 < fenn> der.. did we just go through a daylight savings switch or something? or did i get abducted by machine elves and sent backwards in time one hour with false memories?
20:20 < JayDugger> If you're here, you'll probably like them.
20:20 < JayDugger> fenn, the latter.
20:20 < fenn> FUCK
20:20 < JayDugger> Who do you like, nsh?
20:21 < fenn> nsh: neal stephenson, vinge
20:21 < nsh> egan, stephenson, asimov, vinge
20:21 < fenn> grmph
20:21 < nsh> any particular good reads lately?
20:21 < JayDugger> Hmmm...
20:21 < JayDugger> Herodotus...
20:21  * nsh smiles
20:22 < JayDugger> Escape From Hell, but that's satire and not SF.
20:22 < fenn> ted chiang "the story of your life"
20:22 < JayDugger> David Marusek, Counting Heads.
20:22 < nsh> just read Factoring Humanity by Robert Sawyer, but wasn't overwhelmed
20:22 < JayDugger> Yeah, I don't care for Sawyer either.
20:22 < fenn> i liked "themepunks" but only because i'm practically living it
20:22 < JayDugger> Alastair Reynolds, if you like space opera.
20:23 < JayDugger> Some Heinlein, some Haldemann.
20:23 < fenn> the forever war, the golden compass
20:23 < JayDugger> Herodotus is awesome with the HESTIA project's interactive maps.
20:23 < nsh> oh, i'm halfway through Time Enough For Love. i should finish that really
20:23 < JayDugger> fenn, did you like Forever Peace?
20:24 < kanzure> "MIT Prof of Aerospace Eng, former NASA Astronaut"
20:24 < fenn> dragon's egg, timemaster (maybe), integral trees
20:24 < JayDugger> Eric Nylund's Signal to Noise, Signal Shattered.
20:24 < JayDugger> Oh, yeah, Forward. Good call.
20:24 < fenn> nsh have you read anathem?
20:24 < nsh> yeah, was great
20:24 < JayDugger> I like Niven's Known Space better.
20:25 < JayDugger> I keep getting Suarez recommended to me, but I've not read his work.
20:25  * nsh appreciates the tips, by the way
20:25 < JayDugger> You might like C. Stross, if you've not read any.
20:26 < kanzure> charlie stross basically took the extropy-chat mailing list and turned it into books
20:26 < nsh> i have, but i can't remember which
20:26 < kanzure> probably accelerando
20:26 < JayDugger> Well...in some of his books, yes. Accelerando, definitely.
20:27 < JayDugger> I like his horror better.
20:27 < nsh> oh, i think i started Halting State and got distracted or something
20:27 < kanzure> JayDugger: btw i've been looking over http://singularityu.org/programs/curriculum/ because someone is funding me to attend the 10-week session
20:27 < superkuh> Stanislaw Lem's "His Master's Voice" is the best scifi I've read in the last year.
20:27 < JayDugger> Duh!
20:27 < JayDugger> Yeah, read Lem.
20:27 < kanzure> yeah lots of people recommend lem
20:27 < JayDugger> You've nothing better to do.
20:27 < nsh> oO
20:28 < JayDugger> Assuming you've read Egan, and that you don't need an overview of all SF in one book (i.e., Stapledon's Star Maker.)
20:28 < fenn> if you want to read about awfulness "after the siege" in "overclocked" by doctorow
20:29 < kanzure> i still recommend david zindell's neverness: http://heybryan.org/docs/Zindell,%20David%20-%20Neverness%20(v1.0).txt
20:29 < JayDugger> Was his fantasy any good?
20:29 < kanzure> who's?
20:29 < JayDugger> Zindell's.
20:29 < fenn> i didn't really like neverness, it was just so fluffy and ungrounded
20:29 < nsh> right, i'd better get started
20:29 < JayDugger> Oh, and Greg Zebrowski's macrolife.
20:29 < kanzure> basically his fantasy mirrors his scifi
20:29 < fenn> and why the fuck did they go live with the cavemen
20:30 < kanzure> "to learn the secret of life"
20:30 < kanzure> or something
20:30 < fenn> but.. but..
20:30 < JayDugger> Neverness read like a blend of Brin and Gene Wolfe.
20:30 < kanzure> zindell studied under gene
20:30 < fenn> they should have just asked the SSE
20:30 < kanzure> SSE?
20:30 < JayDugger> nsh, google for a list of Hugo and Nebula winners.
20:30 < kanzure> oh right
20:30 < kanzure> didn't he?
20:30 < nsh> JayDugger, aye, i've gone that route a few times
20:30 < JayDugger> Start there, but remember some books win for want of competition.
20:30 < fenn> yeah and iirc she called him a fucking moron for living with the cavemen
20:30 < kanzure> hahah
20:31 < JayDugger> Except for H.P., which I can't explain.
20:31 < fenn> but my memory may be incorrect
20:31 < kanzure> fenn: he met SSE before the cavemen
20:31 < fenn> and after, no?
20:31 < fenn> oh crap i'm mixing up stories now..
20:31 < JayDugger> SSE=Solid State Entities?
20:32 < kanzure> singular
20:32 < kanzure> er, solid state entity (singular)
20:32 < JayDugger> right.
20:32 < kanzure> JayDugger: so you've read it?
20:32 < kanzure> how did you find it
20:32 < fenn> confused neverness with modesitt "gravity dreams"
20:32 < kanzure> hey don't i have that modesitt on my shelf?
20:32 < fenn> yeah
20:32 < kanzure> hm
20:32 < fenn> it's another hyperspace pilot book
20:32 < JayDugger> Neverness? Gosh...it was okay. I read that ages past.
20:33 < kanzure> but how did you find it, JayDugger?
20:33 < JayDugger> Oh, I lived in an area with a very good public library at the time.
20:33 < kanzure> so you just randomly decided to read it because it was on the shelf?
20:33 < JayDugger> Top 10 in the nation for the population base, actually.
20:33 < kanzure> it's a book that not many people know about
20:33 < JayDugger> Yes, I found it by shelf reading in the library's fiction section.
20:34 < kanzure> i do that a lot too :/
20:34 < kanzure> but in my case, an internet buddy recommended it
20:34 < JayDugger> I used to do that, but now I use book burro. It searches WorldCat.
20:34 < JayDugger> Book title to Amazon (via Hyperwords), Amazon to WorldCat (via BookBurro).
20:35 < JayDugger> I found Ted Nelson's Computer Lib/Dream Machines by shelf reading at the same library. :)
20:36 < fenn> libraries usually have books that people request, right?
20:36 < JayDugger> Depends on your library.
20:36 < fenn> or do they just order books randomly based on what they think people should be reading
20:36 < JayDugger> Again, it depends on your library.
20:36 < JayDugger> That's really a question for my sister, the librarian.
20:36 < fenn> yep
20:36 < JayDugger> The one in question, they had a policy of spending as much as they could on the collection.
20:37 < JayDugger> Almost everything else came second.
20:37 < fenn> duh. what else would you spend it on
20:37 < JayDugger> Facilities, salaries, computers, database subscriptions, etc...
20:37 < fenn> i should invent a UAV that slaps people with a trout
20:38 < JayDugger> Once the FAA approves mixed-use airspace, the "Duh-slap" UAV would make you a fortune. :)
20:38 < fenn> after a week of flying cross country the trout would be pretty smelly
20:38 < JayDugger> So much the better.
20:39 < JayDugger> You can ask a library to get a book for you, but that's slow.
20:39 < fenn> this for slapping library administrators who don't buy books, if that wasnt clear
20:39 < kanzure> huh the detroit makerfaire is going to be *in* the ford museum? i've been there a few times
20:39 < JayDugger> Do they have the money, is it a popular request, and then--how often do they buy?
20:39 < JayDugger> Inter-Library Loan probably works faster, but...
20:40 < kanzure> knowing about ted nelson is almost a pre-req for talking in here, JayDugger :)
20:40 < JayDugger> you might have to pay shipping.
20:40 < JayDugger> Nowadays just buying it via Amazon works nearly so well for books in-print.
20:44 < fenn> yeah just about everything i would want is $1-3
20:45 < fenn> for fiction at least
20:45 < fenn> for everything else, there's pirate bay :P
20:45 < kanzure> "Medical nanorobotics, an introductory textbook. By Robert Freitas. $895.95"
20:45 < fenn> from amazon?
20:45 < JayDugger> Is that in print?
20:46 < kanzure> i'm just making it up, but he did author a nanorobotics textbook and yes it was ridiculously expensive
20:46 < JayDugger> Yeah...I have a few collectibles which make destructive scanning too awful to contemplate.
20:46 < kanzure> http://www.nanomedicine.com/
20:46 < QuantumG> I wouldn't put it past him
20:46 < fenn> kanzure: you might have to buy that for singularityu
20:47 < fenn> or whatever it's called when you exchange someone else's money for something nobody wants
20:47 < kanzure> http://www.amazon.com/Nanomedicine-Vol-I-Basic-Capabilities/dp/1570596808
20:47 < kanzure> oh that's under $100 
20:47 < kanzure> wow
20:47 < kanzure> (or you can just read it for free online)
20:47 < fenn> "government"?
20:48 < JayDugger> "Subsidies"
20:48 < JayDugger> ?
20:48 < kanzure> i'm going to try to convince singularityu to have an "all star" track where i don't have to give up people like peter norvig or have conflicting decisions like "sherlock holmes versus superman"
20:48 < kanzure> i'm certainly paying enough for that..
20:48 < QuantumG> there's a tradition in the sci-fi world of writing "manuals" for technology that doesn't exist
20:49 < QuantumG> I see most of this nanomedicine stuff like that
20:49  * kanzure wants a flux capacitor manual
20:49 < QuantumG> and a lot of nanotechnology in general
20:49 < fenn> can you just go to whatever class you want?
20:50 < jrayhawk> kanzure: Jamey Sharp and Josh Triplett wrote XCB
20:50 < kanzure> xlib?
20:50 < fenn> i mean it's not like you get a degree for completing a set curriculum
20:50 < jrayhawk> Josh Triplett, in particular, has an *amazing* capacity to tolerate walking through minute technical implications for hours and hours
20:50 < kanzure> fenn: dunno.. just walking around hanging out probably wouldn't be entirely out of the question (especially if it's all in the same place)
20:51 < kanzure> http://xcb.freedesktop.org/
20:51 < fenn> bart massey again.. add to stalk log
20:51 < jrayhawk> which makes him hilariously intolerable to talk to in person, but quite a useful asset on a lot of projects.
20:52 < kanzure> fenn: how did you find bart massey?
20:52 < kanzure> did he just send an email to you?
20:52 < fenn> i dont know it's just the third or fourth time i've run across that name
20:52 < kanzure> er, where did you run across it
20:52 < kanzure> this time
20:52 < kanzure> did joe just say something?
20:52 < fenn> maybe it's bkero's boss or something
20:53 < kanzure> because i've been emailing bart back and forth today
20:53 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCB
20:53 < kanzure> oh i guess bart is associated with xcb
20:53 < JayDugger> On the topic of ikiwiki?
20:53 < kanzure> wait, why is ikiwiki coming up
20:53 < kanzure> kfadlkfjklfdlkfjkd
20:53 < kanzure> jrayhawk: help
20:54 < JayDugger> Massey-->Portland State Aerospace Society (hosted on ikiwiki)
20:54 < jrayhawk> Yeah, he was the clever one who said "hey let's replace xlib with a macro language" which then set Jamey and Josh into motion.
20:54 < jrayhawk> Josh wrote large portions of Ikiwiki, too.
20:54 < kanzure> has ikiwiki expanded past just joey hess?
20:55 < jrayhawk> Not really; I think Josh stopped once it got good enough for PSAS.
20:55 < kanzure> stalk: Jamey Sharp <jamey@thesharps.us>
20:55 < kanzure> stalk: Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org>
20:56 < jrayhawk> PSAS is going to meet in about four minutes, actually, so hopefully I've gotten skdb to disrupt that a bit.
20:57 < jrayhawk> They're full of interesting open hardware projects.
20:57 < kanzure> bkero-legacy: do you know PSAS?
20:57 < kanzure> jrayhawk: do you know OSUOSL?
20:57 < jrayhawk> I am usually skirting the edge of OSUOSL projects.
20:58 < kanzure> gah http://osuosl.org/advisory has "Chris DiBona" listed, who i just learned of today because of http://singularityu.org/programs/curriculum/
20:58 < jrayhawk> I think a bunch of them actually wound up getting moved to PSU partially as a result of Bart.
20:59 < kanzure> well, OSUOSL stalks us in here- there's like 20 of them in here
20:59 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 36 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 36 normal]
20:59 < fenn> ah massey also worked on cairo
20:59 < jrayhawk> Massey is the secretary of the xorg foundation; he has his hands in everything.
21:00 < jrayhawk> cworth also has involvement in PSAS, as it happens.
21:01 < jrayhawk> Bart is a magical guy at social networking amongst technical communities; "who should i talk to about x problem" is a useful thing to ask him under most circumstances.
21:02 < kanzure> also, he (along with joe here) is hosting gnusha.org
21:03 < JayDugger> jrayhawk, has Keith Lofstrom any connection with PSAS?
21:04 < jrayhawk> The face and name looks familiar...
21:04 < JayDugger> Linux Northwest...
21:04 < JayDugger> Server Sky presentation
21:04 < jrayhawk> I don't see him showing up in the mailing list archives.
21:04 < kanzure> oh! btw i'm presenting at texas linux fest in austin in april or whatever
21:04 < JayDugger> Yes, but on what?
21:05 < kanzure> "apt-get for hardware" :/
21:05 < JayDugger> Got it.
21:05 < kanzure> i'm going to have to freshen up on my "why i'm not using apt-get itself" arguments
21:05 < jrayhawk> I think I might've met him at a PLUG meeting.
21:05 < JayDugger> I think he's at this year's Intl. Space Development Conf. in Chicago, but I don't plan to attend.
21:06 < kanzure> i almost went to ISDC08 but it conflicted with high school graduation
21:06 < JayDugger> Anyhow... http://server-sky.com/, a fun speculative proposal, and educational if not practical.
21:07 < JayDugger> I've only attended one ISDC, in high school, and in Austin, by coincidence, but long ago.
21:09 < jrayhawk> The people involved in the discussion are actually more likely to attack your model than your choice of toolchain.
21:09 < jrayhawk> I don't think apt is going to enter the discussion all that significantly.
21:09 < JayDugger> Hmm...I wonder if Lofstrom and Bradbury realize similarities between Server Sky and Matroishka brains?
21:10 < JayDugger> http://server-sky.com/slides/serversky.pdf
21:10 < JayDugger> And now I have to attend to IRL tasks. :(
21:11 < JayDugger> Good night, all.
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21:14 < bkero-legacy> kanzure: PSAS?
21:15 < jrayhawk> http://psas.pdx.edu/http://psas.pdx.edu/
21:15 < jrayhawk> whoops
21:15 < kanzure> failpants
21:15 < jrayhawk> my mouse is a little screwy :(
21:15 < kanzure> why do you even have one
21:16 < jrayhawk> Because webbrowsers all have terrible interfaces
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21:30 < fenn> the only reason i use gnome, and hence gnome-terminal, and hence have to click the damn tabs to switch to another terminal, is because gnome comes with this wifi NetworkManager icon in the menu bar, which is great and seems to be missing in everything else
21:31 < fenn> so, is there some alternative wifi connection manager that i'm unaware of that doesn't require gnome?
21:31 < fenn> oh and the transparent terminal is cool but i can probably find something else besides gnome terminal
21:34 < kanzure> "Singularity University is a modern-day Jedi Academy for young leaders." 
21:34 < kanzure> fenn: you can use shift+arrow to switch to other tabs in gnome-terminal
21:37 < fenn> no i can't
21:38 < fenn> it just types "DCDC"
21:38 < kanzure> gah no thanks to this rammstein amv asuka now has a massive german accent in my mind :(
21:38 < kanzure> fenn: are you still on OSxucks?
21:38 < fenn> isn't asuka german?
21:38 < kanzure> oh
21:38 < kanzure> um
21:38 < kanzure> http://youtube.com/watch?v=oc_gcYMsGqQ
21:39 < kanzure> also, gnome-terminal should have keyboard shortcut configuration capacitiers
21:39 < kanzure> *capacities
21:40 < fenn> while i'm bitching about gnome and window managers and mouse clicking, WTF IS WITH THE 50 PASTE BUFFERS
21:40 < kanzure> what 50 paste buffers?
21:40 < fenn> shift-insert is different from middle click is different from "paste" is different from firefox "paste"
21:41 < fenn> and i can never figure out which action puts it in which buffer
21:41 < fenn> so i end up pasting and deleting like 4 times
21:41 < fenn> this worked perfectly with kde and icewm
21:42 < QuantumG> never had that problem, but hey, I like GNOME
21:43 < kanzure> why are you using gnome, fenn? kde seems to be the better choice in general
21:48 < fenn> that's probably one of the best AMV's i've seen
21:48 < fenn> as i explained above, KDE doesn't have a wifi manager for shit, afaict
21:49 < QuantumG> so, umm, I missed it, what was your problem with gnome terminal?
21:53 < kanzure> oh yay it's a fully assembled genome already
21:59 < fenn> mostly just the ti forget
22:00 < fenn> gah
22:00 < fenn> so the kde install on this netbook is well and truly fucked
22:01 < kanzure> oh you got yourself a netbook
22:01 < fenn> yeah
22:01 < fenn> konqueror works fine but the kde wm itself malfunctions in bizarre ways
22:02 < fenn> anyway, i _want_ to use icewm and just have some app i can pick a wifi AP with, and type in the password and it actually works
22:02 < jrayhawk> shift-insert and middle click use the same buffer, which is one negotiated between applications.
22:02 < fenn> jrayhawk: not for me
22:03 < fenn> and no i dont understand where the discrepancy comes from
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22:03 < fenn> hello jules
22:03 < jrayhawk> it's behavior is application-specific, and, in particular, Firefox is very easily confused about what to pull from.
22:03 < jblake> Hi there. I'm probably just going to be lurking for a while more; I still have some other things to get through before I can devote attention to here.
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22:26  * kanzure is done extracting 72 people from http://singularityu.org/programs/curriculum/ for meetlog
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23:14 < fenn> startuplinkup.com is kinda cool if you're into that sort of thing
23:14 < fenn> semantic mediawiki
23:17 < kanzure> oh look it's andrew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbxOPustYBc
23:39 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:59 < fenn> "paul bohm said... since techcofounder is basically a dating site, you should approach this like a dating event"