--- Day changed Wed Mar 17 2010
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01:03 < fenn> this sort of reminds me of "castle of illusion" http://fennetic.net/irc/IMG_0147.JPG
01:26 < jrayhawk> I don't know if I've ever seen a server running all of php, python, ruby, and perl applications.
01:26 < jrayhawk> You are a madman!
01:29 < Utopiah> it does look like you are looking for its winner and eventually plan to rape it in the dark... o_0
01:29 < Utopiah> note that it also have a concern look on its face
01:44 < fenn> yeah yeah, poor robot
01:44 < fenn> i'm only in it for the money
01:50 < fenn> the "eye tracking for data entry" thing turned out to be some kind of misprint.. instead it was 100% undiluted bullshit from adobe
01:51 < fenn> "Adobe's Global Market Research Team, the Strategic Research Group (SRG) specializes in exploratory, people-centered research across Adobe's diverse businesses, markets, and technologies."
01:51 < fenn> yay!
01:52 < fenn> now WTF does that have to do with human computer interaction?
01:52 < Utopiah> maybe they meant human money computer interactions
01:53  * fenn writes an angry email
01:54 < QuantumG> is there any other kind?
01:54 < fenn> hmm i wonder if this is eri's fault
01:55 < QuantumG> fffffuuuuu..... season 4 of ST:TNG fell out of torrent queue somehow... so I just got to the end of season 3, and discovered season 4 isn't ready!
01:56 < fenn> aha the actual eye tracking talk: http://www.baychi.org/calendar/20100127/
02:24  * rektide is hoping that will be fun to watch tomorrow
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03:15 < Utopiah> are there any tools generating social network from voices in movies?
03:16 < Utopiah> mapping a voice to a person then linking persons based on the the lapse between each voice caught I guess
03:20 < Utopiah> maybe some tools are already doing so from text, I remember an IBM experiment on that, maybe just generating a transcript then this
03:22 < QuantumG> google recently released their transcript technology on youtube
03:22 < QuantumG> it's, ummm, pretty bad
03:22 < Utopiah> yes, that's I guess why I thought about using transcripts rather than voice tone/pitch/whatever
03:23 < QuantumG> yeah, voice recognition (as in, assigning a person to a voice) is still incredibly primitive.. but, to be honest, it's something humans suck at too.
03:26 < Utopiah> well, the thing is that for such a tool, at least first, word recognition is not required, only identifying who is speaking and when, then having hypothesis about to whom based on behaviors (like time response)
03:29 < Utopiah> (every time I do a search about social network I end up with marketing BS)
03:30 < Utopiah> http://www.jibble.org/piespy/
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05:27 < QuantumG> http://www.physorg.com/news187879295.html
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06:24 < kanzure> "A floating point conversion error caused an Ariane 5 rocket to explode back in 1996" 
06:24 < kanzure> http://www.ima.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/ariane.html
06:27 < kanzure> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1585260&cid=31506226
06:27 < kanzure> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1585260&cid=31506468
06:39 < Utopiah> http://www.jibble.org/shakespeare/
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08:37 < kanzure> .deb files for heekscad http://highlab.com/~seb/heeks/ (yay)
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08:45 < kanzure> java irc client distributed by freenode? martin put up a copy at http://www.austinhackerspace.org/irc_page
08:50 < kanzure> http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/archives/2010/03/synthetic-biology-is-a-bit.php
08:50 < kanzure> (from the synthetic aesthetics people)
08:55 < kanzure> so, a guy named ben (alter ben) from the ycombinator sxsw meetup was talking with me about metcalfe's law 
08:55 < kanzure> "Metcalfe's law states that the value of a telecommunications network is proportional to the square of the number of connected users of the system (n**2)."
08:56 < kanzure> he was suggesting i apply it to social networks, in which case he pointed out that the law is wrong
08:56 < kanzure> namely because from a single user's perspective, they value their friendships and connections differently
08:56 < kanzure> so then you get this weighted longtail distribution of friendship/connection values across the network
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09:02 < kanzure> cool he's cited in the wikipedia article
09:02 < kanzure> i didn't catch his name, and he was a new google employee so didn't have a card
09:02 < kanzure> "#
09:02 < kanzure> # Metcalfe's Law is Wrong. Bob Briscoe, Andrew Odlyzko, and Benjamin Tilly, July 2006 IEEE Spectrum. Points out that Metcalfe's Law is wrong, that the value is closer to n log (n)"
09:02 < kanzure> http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/networks/metcalfes-law-is-wrong
09:03 < kanzure> "It is named for no less a luminary than Robert M. Metcalfe, the inventor of Ethernet. "
09:03 < kanzure> that's like saying "the inventor of air, you've probably heard of it right?"
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09:11 < kanzure> "At some point, adding one person would theoretically increase the network value by an amount equal to the whole world economy, and adding a few more people would make us all immeasurably rich. Clearly, this hasn't happened and is not likely to happen."
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09:19 < kanzure> hm
09:19 < kanzure> rock's law: the cost of semiconductor tools doubles every four years
09:19 < kanzure> machrone's law: the pc you want to buy will always be $5000
09:20 < kanzure> wirth's law: software is slowing faster than hardware is accelerating
09:20 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock%27s_law
09:20 < kanzure> "Rock's Law, named for Arthur Rock, says that the cost of a semiconductor chip fabrication plant doubles every four years. As of 2003, the price had already reached about 3 billion US dollars."
09:21 < kanzure> http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/materials/5-commandments/2
09:22 < kanzure> "When integrated circuits were first made, the template for a circuit pattern--called a resist--was put down in wax by a human being wielding a 10-cent camel's hair brush. Then the wafer was dipped in sulfuric acid or some other etchant so that only the circuit pattern remained. Today, this job is done by a $14 million, 193-nanometer-wavelength stepper; "
09:23 < kanzure> ""All of China couldn't do a week's production of an Intel factory using camel's hair brushes as the etching tool," says Hutcheson."
09:35 < katsmeow-afk> ""All of China couldn't do a week's production of an Intel factory using camel's hair brushes as the etching tool," says Hutcheson." <<== isn't a proper comparison
09:36 < katsmeow-afk> that's like saying a generator putting out 500kw can supply a year's worth of power
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09:58 < kanzure> videos from operation playmate and arcattack at sxsw dorkbot23 http://flickr.com/gp/tinytexas/oMb7nf
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10:04 < kanzure> "open data" http://piratepad.net/LgLRcGLw35 FAQ questions being added, presumably to be answered eventually
12:04 < kanzure> http://github.com/makerbot
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12:22 < kanzure> makerbot conveyor belt http://svn.makerbot.com/users/charles/conveyor/
12:23 < kanzure> http://charlespax.com/2010/03/17/makerbot-conveyor-belt/
12:23 < kanzure> video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njE9dYSMPwA
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13:49 < fenn> i wonder if stuff peels off inadvertently while being extruded
13:58 < fenn> this 'defensive publication' stuff is almost as bad as filing for a patent
13:59 < fenn> and they don't seem to understand a plain english request like "where are the documents"?
14:12 < ybit> ahaha
14:13 < ybit> did anyone see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jywQLnUnMG0
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14:29 < Utopiah> brillant :P
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16:22 < fenn> i should probably stalk every person on this list: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Polycaprolactone
16:55 < kanzure> "where are the documents?" -> their eyes glaze over and they start to wonder if you're alien
17:14 < fenn> sort of silly visualization of revision history (the origin of species by darwin) http://benfry.com/traces/
17:18 < nsh> nice
17:25 < kanzure> http://mightyohm.com/blog/2010/03/austin-hackerspace-pics/
17:28 < kanzure> http://www.cryptnet.net/fdp/crypto/keysigning_party/en/keysigning_party.html
17:29 < kanzure> http://citizenengineer.com/ "New online video series about open source hardware, electronics, art and hacking by Limor (Ladyada) Fried of Adafruit Industries & Phillip (pt) Torrone of MAKE magazine."
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18:34 < kanzure> well that's not encouraging
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18:50 < fenn> where's my ratborg 3000? http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/01/found_pettoys/
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19:15 < fenn> i wonder what universe this person is from "In one camp are authors who over-associate war with violence, a link for which there is little support in historical evidence."
19:22 < QuantumG> hehe
19:22 < QuantumG> that's gold, who said that?
19:25 < QuantumG> Roger Penrose is a fucking disgrace
19:26 < QuantumG> watching http://www.youtube.com/user/GoogleTechTalks#p/u/0/f477FnTe1M0
19:27 < QuantumG> no idea why, it's frustrating to watch his amateur understanding of computability (which he confused with "computational" a dozen times), not to mention when he starts babbling on about microtubules 
19:29 < QuantumG> but hey, even his presentation of physics is amateurist.. it makes you wonder whether he actually did all the great work in physics that he's credited with
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19:40 < QuantumG> I mean, he even suggests that flowers must have sort level of consciousness because they know what bees like.. I shit you not
19:40 < QuantumG> s/sort/some/
19:49 < fenn> and you disagree?
19:49 < QuantumG> heh, yes.  I believe flowers and bees co-evolved to their current state.
19:50 < fenn> and that means there is no consciousness involved?
19:50 < fenn> disclaimer, i have no idea what roger penrose says
19:50 < fenn> other than the penrose tile thing
19:50 < QuantumG> he rejects that hypothesis and says consciousness is responsible
19:52 < fenn> some people are going to be pissed when we make a working synthetic brain
19:52 < fenn> and it turns out that man isn't the center of the universe, again
19:52 < QuantumG> nah, they'll just keep playing semantics games
19:52 < QuantumG> "oh, it's not *really* a brain."
19:53 < QuantumG> still plenty of life in "intelligence", "consciousness", "awareness"
19:53 < fenn> yeah like the people who think that the center of the earth is really the outer shell of the universe, and space just happens to shrink as you go toward the center (thus providing room for the rest of the stars in the sky)
19:55 < QuantumG> imagine you have a function called foo().. it returns no value, uses no global variables and does no I/O.  An optimizing compiler should identify this function as being useless and remove it, right?
19:55 < QuantumG> ok, well what if the function contains an infinite loop?
19:55 < fenn> you should have used the wait function instead
19:56 < QuantumG> then the optimizing computer can't remove it.. it first has to determine if foo() halts or not.. hello halting problem, therefore optimizing compilers are impossible.
19:56 < QuantumG> s/computer/compiler/
19:56 < fenn> what's the point of a program that goes into an infinite loop?
19:58 < QuantumG> as such, because I've proved that optimizing compilers are impossible, but apparently they exist, I postulate that optimizing compilers much contain some sort of oracle that lets them do non-computable things.. and to back up my theory I've identified a part of a optimizing compilers that I call the "micro-codules" and here's some wacky theory that explains how it might work.
19:59 < QuantumG> micro-codules look like this:  { and sometimes they look like this }
20:00 < fenn> every time i come to langton there's a different piece of lab equipment sitting on the kitchen counter
20:01 < fenn> this time it's a sartorius balance, and seems to be hooked up to some stereo speakers?
20:02 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/cspan.tar.gz (200 MB)
20:03 < kanzure> or for people on davinci, it's in /home/bryan/scrapers/cspan/
20:08 < fenn> why do i care about cspan?
20:10 < kanzure> someone asked me to scrape the cspan closed captioning database that was put online a few days ago
20:12 < JayDugger> Did they say why?
20:12 < fenn> are there millions of files in that dir? my shell just locks up when i try to look at it
20:13 < kanzure> nah only about 60k
20:13 < kanzure> 59546
20:13 < fenn> oh "only" 60k ;)
20:13 < kanzure> 1.9 GB and it compresses down to 200 MB :/
20:14 < kanzure> i'm guessing it's all the political boilerplate
20:14 < fenn> text compresses about 90% in general
20:14 < fenn> are you doing some kind of concept network based on transcripts?
20:15 < fenn> (was that being discussed in here?)
20:15 < kanzure> i think utopiah was talking about that?
20:15 < kanzure> but no, a deaf dude just asked me to do it
20:15 < fenn> heh ok
20:15 < kanzure> or actually he posted on slashdot and asked people to do it, and got no responses
20:15 < kanzure> it was a 5min deal, so yeah
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20:16 < kanzure> a lot of the text really sucks. it's like the first 140 characters of what each person says
20:16 < fenn> which should i read first, "getting things done" or "never eat alone"?
20:16 < kanzure> more accurately 103 and 104 characters
20:16 < kanzure> "never eat alone" is mostly bullshit
20:16 < fenn> you say that about everything
20:16 < kanzure> except the amazon reviews agree!
20:16 < fenn> (it doesn't mean it's not true of course)
20:16 < fenn> did you actually read it?
20:16 < kanzure> no
20:16 < fenn> ha!
20:17 < fenn> ok, opinion discounted
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20:17 < kanzure> i wouldn't buy a copy, but i'd glance at a pdf or txt if it dropped my way
20:18 < fenn> i wasnt suggesting anything so vulgar as buying a book
20:18 < JayDugger> Read Allen's "Getting Things Done."
20:18 < JayDugger> You might find it at your local library (try worldcat) as dead-tree or audiobook.
20:19 < JayDugger> Yes, I've read it.
20:19 < fenn> the other day i was at adobe's "strategic research strategy" presentation, and they started talking about how they interviewed people in "the software aisle" to see what they were looking for.. that's when i realized we didn't live in the same world
20:19 < JayDugger> fenn, have you done any work on concept maps?
20:19 < kanzure> mindmaps?
20:20 < kanzure> JayDugger: http://www.speakeasy.org/~lion/nb/
20:20 < fenn> no
20:20 < JayDugger> I'd like to hear about work you've done with those, too, but I meant concept maps.
20:20 < kanzure> "How to Make a Complete Map of Every Thought you Think"
20:20 < kanzure> but it will probably kill you
20:20 < fenn> i dont see the point of a concept map
20:20 < fenn> is it for sharing with other people how you view the universe?
20:20 < JayDugger> Nah...I've a partial record, my "someday-perhaps" mind map.
20:21 < JayDugger> That goes back over a decade.
20:21 < kanzure> fenn: it's certainly not ideal imho if that's the purpose
20:21 < JayDugger> Not super-useful.
20:21 < fenn> just looks like more boxes-and-arrows to me
20:21 < JayDugger> I only ever did one to communicate an idea, well, two.
20:21 < JayDugger> Hang on...
20:21 < fenn> sort of like rdf i guess
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20:22 < JayDugger> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jay_dugger/2184651464/
20:22 < JayDugger> That shows the relationships in a RPG adventure I ran for friends.
20:23 < JayDugger> It had a complicated, espionage-related plot, and the map made sure I kept my story straight.
20:23 < fenn> i dont see any concepts
20:24 < JayDugger> ?
20:24 < JayDugger> Boxes indicate characters, lines indicate actions.
20:24 < JayDugger> I think we've got a "semantic impedance mismatch."
20:24 < fenn> where are the concepts?
20:25 < JayDugger> I don't understand what you ask, fenn. Would please you rephrase it?
20:25 < fenn> all i see are references to tangible things, or at least fictional tangible things
20:25 < JayDugger> Right.
20:25 < fenn> where would 'world peace' fit in this map?
20:25 < JayDugger> That didn't fit into the storyline. Let me think about that question.
20:26 < fenn> ok, where would 'espionage' fit?
20:26 < QuantumG> or 'murder'
20:26 < QuantumG> or 'theft', or ...
20:27 < JayDugger> Okay, I think I get it.
20:28 < JayDugger> This particular map only involved concrete actions or characters in the fictions. The overall shape of the map demonstrates the relationships among the characters. You seem to ask for a rather broader level of detail than this map shows.
20:29 < kanzure> "Ok, I understand Alrmadillo needing a supply of methane. But what is
20:29 < QuantumG> hmm.. children initially refer to themselves in the third person?  I've never heard that one before.
20:29 < kanzure> Blue Origin doing with GH2?????"
20:31 < QuantumG> there's a lot of good replies in that thread
20:31 < QuantumG> but, of course, no-one *knows*
20:31 < QuantumG> (in that thread)
20:32 < JayDugger> This map, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jay_dugger/2265186269/, shows a set of themes common to a set of different RPGs. The arrows show how different games use those themes in particular order during play.
20:32 < JayDugger> I think that more closely matches what you had in mind for concept maps.
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20:33 < kanzure> http://www.newspacejournal.com/2009/02/09/blue-origin-and-jeff-bezoss-reading-habits/
20:34 < QuantumG> I never really referred to myself as a child.. in fact, I can honestly say that I never did at all until I was about 25.
20:34 < QuantumG> (in the third person)
20:34  * kanzure wonders what numerical person this counts as
20:35 < QuantumG> heh, I read a paper once where some linguist was studying irc because people more regularly refer to themselves in the third person
20:35 < QuantumG> with /me
20:36 < kanzure> /me is first person before i send it
20:36 < QuantumG> and many people break grammar when doing so
20:36  * QuantumG has to make an example.  I can't think of one.
20:36 < QuantumG> ^ - baffles linguists
20:37 < QuantumG> or, at least, it did before the paper I vaguely remember reading.
20:37 < QuantumG> in fact, it might have been in Bartle's Designing Virtual Worlds.
20:40 -!- genehacker [~noko@pool-173-57-48-104.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:44 < JayDugger> Good night, all.
20:44 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@2001:0:53aa:64c:2ca3:3941:52c6:ef50] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20:56 < fenn> blah. ok now that bootstrap.org moved to dougengelbart.org can we please do something useful with the domain besides a lame redirect?
20:57 -!- tari [1000@mokhsbox.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:57 < kanzure> "Moreover, a greater percentage of very close social partners in social networks is related to lower levels of happiness among the young age group"
20:58 < kanzure> O_o "Specifically, as age increased, baseline social network size decreased. As baseline depression scores increased, social networks increased significantly"
20:59 < kanzure> maybe all your friends are dying? but wouldn't that make you depressed and show the size decreasing
20:59 < fenn> that sounds totally wrong
20:59 < fenn> how could you keep up with people if you're depressed and stay home all day?
21:00 < QuantumG> no matter how many fake friends you tag on social media sites, your parents are still disappointed in you.
21:01 < kanzure> haha
21:01 < QuantumG> and your expected life path will always be one of mediocrity 
21:05 < kanzure> "Relationship of Social Network Size to Infant Birth Weight"
21:06  * kanzure sighs
21:11 < nsh> don't underestimate mediocrity
21:11 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanxi
21:12 < kanzure> "blat, the russian equivalent" hah!
21:13  * fenn blats all over you
21:13 < fenn> oh crap, sorry
21:13 < fenn> i've been taking too much guanxi i guess
21:14  * kanzure throws a dictionary at fenn
21:15 < fenn> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=blat
21:15 < fenn> huh "blat" means "whore" in russian?
21:16 < Noahj> Everything means "whore" on urbandictionary
21:17 < fenn> '"BLAT", similar to the sound it would make if you jumped on a full tube of toothpaste.'
21:17 < kanzure> are you sure? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=everything
21:19 < Noahj> I'm moderately surprised that that was false 
21:19 < Noahj> Oh well 
21:20 < Noahj> http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/
21:20 < kanzure> a fairly popular blog, yes :)
21:21 < Noahj> I've only discovered it recently 
21:21 < Noahj> I understand its popularity, though!
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22:27 [Users #hplusroadmap]
22:27 [ anthonyl    ] [ fenn        ] [ kristianpaul  ] [ strages ] 
22:27 [ bkero-legacy] [ ferrouswheel] [ Noahj         ] [ superkuh] 
22:27 [ chupacabra  ] [ genehacker  ] [ Overand       ] [ thebwt  ] 
22:27 [ CIA-47      ] [ gnusha      ] [ parolang      ] [ ybit    ] 
22:27 [ clemux      ] [ jrayhawk    ] [ randallagordon] [ ybit2   ] 
22:27 [ danielfalck ] [ kardan      ] [ rektide       ] [ zvader  ] 
22:27 [ elmom       ] [ katsmeow-afk] [ Semikolon     ] 
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