--- Day changed Fri May 21 2010
00:00 < klafka> no it's shipping
00:00 < klafka> atm
00:00 < klafka> heh i saw george church talk earlier this year
00:00 < kanzure> fenn: how can i fix that
00:00 < kanzure> is paypal too terrible?
00:00 < klafka> he's all about being "open" without being really open
00:00 < kanzure> so he's fo-open
00:00 < kanzure> he's bropen, or broken
00:00 < klafka> haha
00:00 < neobii> fauxpen
00:00 < klafka> like he's doing this http://www.personalgenomes.org/
00:00 < fenn> "so how do you pay the bills?" "oh i work for a secret romanian countess desiring of immortality, who i've never met or know anything at all about"
00:01 < kanzure> among other things
00:01 < kanzure> what's your point?
00:01 < neobii> hey look
00:01 < neobii> are you a rail developer?
00:01 < klafka> wow really?
00:01 < kanzure> no go away
00:01 < fenn> well, a budget would be a start
00:01 < klafka> kanzure that's kind of awesome
00:01 < neobii> haha it says it on thatp age
00:01 < kanzure> klafka: thanks, at least one of us thinks so
00:02 < klafka> but like that site is church's, he wants to sequence 100,000 people's genomes
00:02 < klafka> and has started already
00:02 < klafka> but notice, none of the data is out there
00:02 < klafka> where the fuck is your open data
00:02 < klafka> george
00:02 < kanzure> klafka: it's a well known fact that the incumbents are full of it
00:02 < fenn> kanzure also, while i appreciate the money, it's not anywhere close to any other option in terms of sheer numbers
00:03 < kanzure> hm
00:03 < fenn> guh. i hate talking about this kind of thing
00:03 < kanzure> so does it need a few more digits?
00:03 < fenn> yeah
00:03 < kanzure> ok. how many.
00:03 < kanzure> (in total)
00:03 < fenn> depends on the time period
00:03 < kanzure> klafka: so yeah, i have funding for crazy projects
00:04 < klafka> oh wow
00:04 < klafka> so i take it back
00:04 < kanzure> i'm not allowed to pay for food or stuff for just me like that
00:04 < klafka> he is in fact making the data public
00:04 < klafka> http://www.personalgenomes.org/public/3.html
00:04 < klafka> http://www.personalgenomes.org/public/
00:04 < fenn> opportunity cost: I can make $40k/yr at minimum on like any "real" job out there
00:04 < kanzure> reality check: you won't
00:04 < fenn> O RLY
00:04 < klafka> one of them is steven pinker too
00:04 < kanzure> or shouldn't :/
00:05 < fenn> also i dont understand why (if?) hackerspace membership dues "don't count"
00:06 < kanzure> why are they charging you anyway?
00:06 < klafka> kanzure i want to make an open NGS bio repository that aims to package bio data in ways that ML people can easily use and facilitate cross-communicatoin and collaboration between ML and BIO people
00:06 < klafka> you can fund that if you wan
00:06 < klafka> t
00:06 < klafka> :)
00:06 < fenn> rent.. stuff.
00:06 < klafka> yeah
00:06 < fenn> why does anything cost anything?
00:06 < kanzure> OR free rent with me? but i'm boring ;)
00:06 < kanzure> oh wait you mean the hackerspace
00:06 < klafka> no rent for the hackerspace
00:07 < fenn> tbh i could probably just show up every day and not pay dues and nobody would notice
00:07 < kanzure> i hate recurring payments
00:07 < klafka> As a result of system improvements, the current sell price is 170,000 USD.
00:07 < kanzure> or recurring costs or whatever you call them
00:07 < fenn> or move to SF and go to noisebridge which is hostile to the concept of dues
00:07 < klafka> come on a polonator is only 170 grand
00:07 < klafka> noisebridge doesn't have dues?
00:07 < klafka> just donations?
00:08 < kanzure> like at $100/mo, in 50 years that's $60k
00:08 < fenn> but the talent of people you run into at the dojo is higher than random person in noisebridge
00:08 < fenn> 50 years is a long time
00:08 < klafka> what's wrong with that kanzure 
00:08 < kanzure> i am still thinking like a broke guy
00:08 < klafka> they are going to have to pay rent every month of those 50 years
00:08 < kanzure> it's weird
00:09 < fenn> noisebridge dues are $80/mo but there's no obligation to be a member
00:09 < fenn> rent is stupid, there's no answer
00:09 < fenn> if it's not rent it's taxes
00:09 < fenn> rent is basically taxes, that's how i think of it
00:09 < kanzure> are they going to tax the string in your pocket
00:09 < fenn> yeah
00:10 < fenn> used to be you had to pay x amount of grain or whatever, regardless if you had any growing in your field
00:10 < fenn> if not you got beat up or something
00:10 < kanzure> and now you get .. confused?
00:11 < fenn> i'm confused
00:12 < kanzure> have i shown you project projector yet?
00:12 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org:8091/projector/projects/ (DON'T click "run" because it really sends out text messages)
00:12 < fenn> maybe, i get the idea
00:12 < fenn> it's like "manna"
00:12 < fenn> but with cellphones
00:12 < kanzure> it's kind of like my startup pyramid scheme
00:12 < kanzure> basically i get 10 people excited
00:12 < kanzure> and they get 10 other people excited
00:12 < kanzure> there's no exit strategy or monetization yet, but i'm super excited about it
00:13 < fenn> did you read "manna"? http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm
00:13 < kanzure> no. is it a short story or a novel?
00:13 < fenn> i think you need to make gantt charts
00:13 < kanzure> why
00:13 < kanzure> oh you mean on the site
00:13 < kanzure> yes
00:13 < fenn> manna is like 10 short chapters
00:14 < fenn> gantt charts would force you to explicitly state the dependencies of each task so they can be parallelized.. that's what gantt charts are for
00:14 < kanzure> i bought up promisepyramid.com today for this project actually
00:14 < fenn> ew
00:14 < kanzure> "i'll do x if 2 of my friends do y"
00:15 < kanzure> http://getupandmove.me/
00:15 < klafka> interesting
00:15 < kanzure> yay for pyramid schemes
00:15 < fenn> double ew
00:15 < kanzure> :/
00:15 < kanzure> that's what all this ycombinator / capital factory startup stuff is about
00:15 < kanzure> pyramids of excitement
00:15 < fenn> ycombinator funds some cool stuff
00:15 < kanzure> yep
00:15 < kanzure> getupandmove.me is one of their latest
00:15 < fenn> oh.
00:17 < klafka> alll of this web 2.0 stuff does just feel a bit like the internet wanking itself off
00:17 < kanzure> yep
00:18 < kanzure> http://capitalfactory.com/ is dumping some money into a startup i'm a part of for an iphone app
00:18 < kanzure> we have like 50 competitors
00:18 < fenn> every time you dis on ycombinator, a cute young white boy with a macbook dies
00:18 < kanzure> hackers don't use mac
00:18 < kanzure> or.. oh no
00:19 < neobii> they use rails
00:19 < kanzure> who does
00:20 < fenn> i'm so sick of hearing about "startups"
00:20 < fenn> can't you just say "i'm working at a small business"
00:20 < kanzure> nvm
00:20 < fenn> "i'm running a website"
00:20 < klafka> lol
00:20 < kanzure> well, actually, a small business is more accurate here
00:20 < kanzure> these guys haven't a clue about startups
00:20 < fenn> wtf is a startup
00:20 < kanzure> i mean.. i keep pointing them to paul graham's articles
00:20 < kanzure> fenn: usually something that is venture backed
00:20 < klafka> lol
00:21 < fenn> guh
00:21 < kanzure> at first they wanted to spend all of the capfac money on salaries
00:21 < kanzure> and you DON'T do that with a startup
00:21 < fenn> its not like people dont invest in businesses
00:21 < klafka> LOL
00:21 < neobii> yeah it's easy for webstartups too
00:21 < neobii> because almost 0 overhead
00:21 < kanzure> neobii: are you foreign?
00:21 < neobii> no dude I live in dallas
00:21 < kanzure> wtf
00:22 < fenn> he's a txtr
00:22 < kanzure> are you high?
00:22 < neobii> what?
00:22 < Utopiah> nice conf on startups btw http://steveblank.com/2010/04/15/why-accountants-dont-run-startups/ (yes, just to be annoying)
00:22 < neobii> I told you I went canoeing in austin haha
00:22 < kanzure> fenn: i feel kind of bad that i've been running around doing all this random programming that isn't directly related to what i actually want to be doing
00:22 < kanzure> does this make me a sellout?
00:23 < fenn> no it makes you a whore
00:23 < fenn> it's subtly different
00:25 < neobii> I'm a sellout :-(
00:25 < neobii> I made a bible verse memory flash app for one crazy religious dude
00:26 < kanzure> i don't like how my email rate has gone down the past two months
00:26 < neobii> we linked him to csszengarden
00:26 < kanzure> like, actual content
00:26 < kanzure> and #hplusroadmap has been somewhat quiet
00:26 < neobii> and he said he wouldn't go because of the "zen" part
00:26 < klafka> hahaha
00:26 < kanzure> csszengarden is over rated
00:27 < neobii> yeah it's a common place to show peeps
00:27 < fenn> i've been busy making Actual Hardware (tm)
00:27 < kanzure> i saw dave's "actual hardware"
00:27 < fenn> did i mention i had the reprap moving (sorta)
00:27 < kanzure> it's basically just a few bikes laying around next to a bridgeport
00:27 < fenn> hey now! thems fightin words
00:28 < kanzure> where did lepton go?
00:28 < klafka> haha
00:28 < fenn> everybody expects some discovery channel robotic factory
00:28 < fenn> klafka: are you high? :P
00:28 < klafka> also can you make led embedded devices w/ a reprap?
00:29 < klafka> not really
00:29 < klafka> that would be neat
00:29 < kanzure> klafka is just an academician
00:29 < kanzure> a grad student i think?
00:29 < klafka> yeah
00:29 < kanzure> yeah, so that should explain it
00:29 < fenn> i need to make a bike blinky, i think i'm going to do that as the next non-reprap printed part
00:29 < kanzure> but actually you're not so bad as far as grad students go
00:29 < kanzure> or at least as they tend to go
00:29 < klafka> haha howso?
00:30 < neobii> do you have a reprap kanzure?
00:30 < kanzure> neobii: no
00:30 < kanzure> i don't know if i want one or not
00:30 < fenn> you do
00:30 < kanzure> i don't want a makerbot, i know that much
00:31 < fenn> it's so much easier than figuring out how to clamp shit on the cnc
00:31 < kanzure> so hey, we have all this equipment laying around
00:31 < kanzure> between dave and me
00:31 < kanzure> laser cutters, cnc machines, drill presses, the mechmate (ok ok it hasn't been worked on in forever)
00:31 < kanzure> and free access to a waterjet cutter
00:31 < kanzure> and a few SLS machines too
00:31 < fenn> k, now what
00:31 < kanzure> so why isn't anything happening
00:32 < kanzure> why ain't designs for open source dna synthesizers flowing out my ass
00:32 < fenn> well?
00:32 -!- genehacker [~genehacke@pool-173-57-40-144.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
00:32 < fenn> dont need access to tools to make designs
00:32 < fenn> why arent you hiring chinese grad students
00:32 < neobii> hey dallas texas
00:32 < kanzure> i don't know any chinese grad students
00:32 < kanzure> so.. that's why i guess?
00:33 < genehacker> hey
00:33 < kanzure> i can't think of any other reason
00:33 < genehacker> what?
00:33 < kanzure> genehacker: what about you
00:33 < fenn> how about indians in call centers
00:33 < kanzure> why aren't you making me designs
00:33 < klafka> yeah come on
00:33 < klafka> open source dna sequencers
00:33 < fenn> heh genehacker has no excuse
00:33 < klafka> let's get to it
00:33 < genehacker> I'm making one kanzure
00:33 < kanzure> klafka: out of curiosity, have you read the channel logs?
00:33 < klafka> no
00:34 < kanzure> fenn: on second thought, genehacker is notoriously bad at documenting designs
00:34 < klafka> reading channel logs is a lot of work
00:34 < kanzure> true that
00:34 < fenn> i havent seen him design anything
00:34 < fenn> some pig catapult, if that counts
00:34 < genehacker> ok then you want my fluidic sound amplifier that can probably be laser cut?
00:34 < fenn> don't we have a list of word frequency?
00:35 < kanzure> fenn: you have one on fennetic.net
00:35 < kanzure> it turns up in my search results all the time
00:35 < fenn> oh right, the pneumatic stepper was pretty cool
00:35 < genehacker> I need to know what bolt sizes you have on hand before I can send it to you
00:35 < genehacker> it's not finished yet
00:35 < genehacker> I stopped development when the gada prize came out
00:35 < fenn> ah so i do: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/histo3
00:35 < genehacker> with their 60 watt power limit
00:35 < kanzure> klafka: this might be interesting: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/youtube_videos_from_irc_channel/
00:36 < fenn> just google the first thing you think of and you've probably already said it/done something with it
00:36 < genehacker> I'm working on something secret
00:36 < klafka> interesting
00:36 < kanzure> fenn: does that make me a keyword squatter?
00:36 < neobii> keywords would be: rails
00:36 < genehacker> also I'll hopefully do some research with the SLS people here
00:36 < fenn> hm need to filter out ip hostnames from that list
00:37 < kanzure> genehacker: i'm doing a "startup" with two of the SLS grad students working for dr. beaman
00:37 < genehacker> kanzure do you have any limits to what I can put on design files?
00:37 < kanzure> so if you want it, you should meet with tim silverman and vikram dearajan
00:37 < kanzure> *vikram devarajan
00:37 < kanzure> put on design files? what do you mean.. on?
00:38 < kanzure> oh you mean the server
00:38 < kanzure> not on files that contain designs
00:38 < kanzure> *sigh*
00:38 < fenn> wow, "origami" was mentioned 42 times, versus 35 for "fuck" 
00:38 < kanzure> yeah there's limits. no porn.
00:38 < kanzure> fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
00:38 < kanzure> fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
00:38 < fenn> ok now they're even
00:38 < genehacker> something that'd get thingiverse in big trouble, no porn
00:38 < genehacker> a working SILEX device that can be built by an amateur
00:39 < klafka>     241 DNA
00:39 < fenn> genehacker: make a hello kitty handgun
00:39 < fenn> reprappable*
00:39 < genehacker> YOUR WISH IS MY COMMAND
00:39 < genehacker> but seriously a SILEX device for refining uranium in your home
00:39 < genehacker> SILEX works now
00:39 < gnusha_> origami origami origami origami origami
00:39 < gnusha_> origami origami origami origami origami
00:40 -!- You're now known as gnusha
00:40 < genehacker> origami hand gun that shoots papercranes?
00:40 < fenn> http://onastick.net/sitz/images/
00:40 < klafka> timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi ti
00:40 < klafka> mtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi 
00:40 < genehacker> it's impossible to print a hand gun fenn, not even printable ceramics can hold the pressures
00:41 < klafka> why can't you print metal yet?
00:41 < genehacker> reprap can't
00:41 < klafka> :(
00:41 < fenn> genehacker: that's an untested assumption
00:41 < klafka> also can reprap do heterogenous materials yet?
00:41 < fenn> the "cant hold pressures" thing anyway
00:41 < fenn> they used to make cannons out of brass for fuck's sake
00:42 < genehacker> err... I have moral problems with making pistols for reprap, it might get reprap in trouble and I can't allow that
00:42 < fenn> anyway i've seen designs for crappy homemade pistols out of 1/4" water pipe
00:42 < fenn> genehacker: hence why i suggested it
00:43 < fenn> in the meantime, you may peruse http://glassdildome.com/
00:43 < klafka> lol
00:43 < genehacker> but a SILEX device can also be used for plenty of moral things like bootstrapping nuclear power development, and since SILEX works we're all screwed anyway
00:44 < fenn> er, what is SILEX?
00:44 < fenn> oh, uranium enrichment
00:45 < fenn> pff
00:45 < genehacker> a uranium enrichment process that is magnitudes more efficient than other methods
00:45 < kanzure> so anyway
00:45 < kanzure> fenn: any other ideas for where to source designers
00:45 < kanzure> i really want someone (or even me) to do an openscad solid geometry output plugin
00:45 < fenn> iceland
00:45 < genehacker> home CO2 lasers and a special excitable medium might allow one to do it in ones home
00:45 < kanzure> then maybe i'll pay a few of the makerbot/openscad (ab)users to do design stuff? i don't know
00:46 < fenn> and other nordic countries
00:46 < kanzure> it's not like i can't do it, but
00:46 < kanzure> blah
00:46 < fenn> places where they still teach math
00:46 < kanzure> my sense of development cycles for hardware is all out of whack
00:46 < kanzure> why the fuck has mechmate taken more than 1.5 years
00:46 < kanzure> is this.. normal?
00:46 < fenn> because paying work keeps getting in the way
00:46 < fenn> yes, unfortunately
00:47 < fenn> why the fuck has hextatic taken >5 years
00:47 < kanzure> depression?
00:47 < kanzure> i can do software prototyping fairly quickly
00:47 < kanzure> but hardware prototyping seems to take me much longer
00:47 < fenn> it's that damned reality loop
00:47 < genehacker> because hardware prototyping takes longer
00:47 < kanzure> i don't think it necessarily has to, though
00:47 < genehacker> also it's the real world
00:47 < kanzure> i mean, technically, the cnc machines only take a few minutes to run
00:48 < fenn> and only hours to set up
00:48 < genehacker> cutting what?
00:48 < kanzure> hours to setup is fine in comparison to 1.5 years
00:48 < fenn> i actually have a bit of data on this
00:48 < kanzure> i don't know why i am fixating on the mechmate example, but it seems releant
00:48 < kanzure> *relevant
00:48 < genehacker> last I heard, ultrafast aerospace CNC machines sometimes run for weeks on end cutting one part
00:48 < kanzure> what are the tolerances they are doing?
00:48 < fenn> 1325 1424 project mini-mendel-cad-idler-brackets
00:48 < fenn> 1424 1446 net reprap-irc
00:48 < fenn> 1446 1534 project mini-mendel-cad-idler-brackets
00:48 < fenn> 1534 1600 project mini-mendel-cam-idler-brackets
00:48 < fenn> 1600 1716 fight mach3, stupid tool-table-error, project mini-mendel-cnc-idler-brackets
00:49 < fenn> 1716 1844 project mini-mendel-cnc-idler-brackets
00:49 < genehacker> probably fairly high in titanium
00:49 < genehacker> I know my friend runs his CNC machine over night cutting aluminum
00:49 < kanzure> i honeslty don't think the cutting time is the issue, genehacker 
00:49 < genehacker> err not his
00:49 < kanzure> if it takes all night to bake, that's fine, let it bake
00:49 < genehacker> of course not
00:49 < fenn> if i had had an openscad model of the part, and a makerbot, would have been < 5 minutes human attention and <25 minutes total
00:50 < kanzure> i wish i could get over my aversion to stl
00:50 < kanzure> wait, no i don't
00:51 < genehacker> you could go back in time and force the man who created stl for his research project in one night to actually make it not suck
00:51 < genehacker> you could also get in on the development of .stl2
00:51 < kanzure> why not just use solid geometry model formats
00:52 < kanzure> i know that their formats are largely undocumented, but that's no excuse for avoiding the issue entirely
00:52 < kanzure> undocumented in an accessible way
00:52 < kanzure> er, un(documented in an accessible way)
00:52 < fenn> a bit of explanation of above: 2.25hr reverse engineering, 0.5hr clicking lots with a mouse, 1.25hr debugging the toolchain, 1.5hr actually cutting parts and figuring out clamping and stuff, 15 minutes to actually cut the parts
00:52 < genehacker> I don't know, because some stuff that get's stereolithographed is too complex for that
00:52 < kanzure> stl is just triangles, sorry
00:53 < fenn> nothing wrong with stl
00:53 < fenn> it's just not what we want
00:53 < fenn> even step kinda sucks for modification
00:53 < kanzure> :/
00:53 < fenn> no parametric anything, no geometric primitives
00:53 < fenn> can't undo a subtraction operation
00:53  * kanzure is still confused about the parametric issues re: step
00:53 < kanzure> but my questions will probably never find themselves answers
00:54 < fenn> afaik it's just a boundary representation with trimmed surfaces
00:54 < fenn> i could be wrong
00:54 < kanzure> at this point i'd be happy with a csg format
00:54 < fenn> yeah csg + fillet modifiers
00:55 < fenn> openscad is not bad
00:55 < fenn> i wish it had a geometry explorer like opencascade
00:55 < kanzure> it's a format lock-in
00:55 < genehacker> anyway kanzure you would host a methlab on chip on design files right
00:55 < kanzure> tim schmidt was in here the other day saying that you could just manually read .scad files and repeat the actions in a CAD app
00:55 < kanzure> but frankly that's terrible
00:56 < genehacker> actually I don't mean methlab I mean microscale adderol factory
00:56 < kanzure> genehacker: yes
00:56 < genehacker> ok then
00:56 < fenn> not really.. as long as you have an understandable format to port to, you can just link the openscad functions to whatever bindings for your format
00:56 < fenn> i dont mean by hand
00:56 < kanzure> sure
00:56 < kanzure> but why hasn't this been done yet?
00:56 < fenn> i was thinking about how to convert openscad to step the other day
00:57 < fenn> there arent many people working with openscad in the first place
00:57 < kanzure> opencascade's source code, sadly, has the most complete spec of STEP available
00:57 < genehacker> hmmmm... we still need a special plasma reactor thing to make such complex microreactors though...
00:57 < fenn> frankly i think it'd be better to use POV-RAY and figure out how to export to STL
00:57 < kanzure> fenn: there's a good number of them there makerbot people
00:57 < fenn> but maybe openscad has an advantage in simplicity
00:57 < kanzure> the makerbot/make people are just eating openscad up like crazies
00:57 < fenn> they are?
00:58 < kanzure> Paola Di Maio, Britton Kerin, Jerry Isdale, Marius Kintel, Zach Smith, Bre Pettis, Aaron Shaw, Steve Talent, Giles Bathgate, Clifford Wolf, the list goes on and on
00:58 < klafka> what is the makerbot vs. reprap?
00:58 < fenn> makerbot is a laser cut reprap
00:58 < kanzure> makerbot is a commercial product based on some modified designs of the cupcakecnc version of reprap
00:58 < klafka> aah
00:58 < fenn> there was some drama involved
00:58 < klafka> lol why?
00:59 < klafka> because they commercialified it
00:59 < kanzure> no
00:59 < fenn> absconding with rrrf donations
00:59 < klafka> aaaaah
00:59 < kanzure> wait really?
00:59 < genehacker> so could you make some way to manipulate openscad files so openscad has true smart dimensions like other cad software
00:59 < fenn> being generally dickheaded in decisions leading up to commercialization
00:59 < genehacker> RAGE!
00:59 < fenn> i.e. the whole sanguino/smt stepper driver thing
01:00 < klafka> wow 1000 bucks for a reprap seems cheap
01:00 < fenn> reprap project has some leadership issues
01:00 < genehacker> does sebastien know about this?
01:00 < fenn> klafka wanna buy one? :P
01:00 < klafka> seems small though
01:00 < klafka> not really
01:00 < fenn> i am going to be selling REAL repraps for <$1k
01:00 < klafka> i really don't have time to do maker things
01:00 < klafka> what's the diff between a reprap and makerbot?
01:00 < klafka> much bigger?
01:00 < fenn> (not that there's any functional difference)
01:01 < fenn> it's easier to hack on a reprap because you can modify any part
01:01 < genehacker> fenn are they not going suck like techzonestore's ripoff reprap?
01:01 < klafka> aah
01:01 < fenn> omg no
01:01 < klafka> grad schoo lreally kills all my time to do fun maker things
01:01 < genehacker> they used the wrong chips...
01:01 < fenn> i so want to delete that "electronics modifications" wiki page
01:01 < klafka> i haven't even been to the hackerspace here
01:01 < kanzure> i still think this might be a good start at parsing step: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/step_importer.py
01:01 < kanzure> barring that, there are some generic EXPRESS parsers out there IIRC (at least one)
01:02 < fenn> yeah the nist stuff
01:02 < fenn> good luck figuring that out
01:02 < kanzure> also here was my attempt at what a good csg library for python would feel like: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/csg.py
01:02 < klafka> although i'd be interested if there were interesting machine learning problems in the maker community
01:02 < fenn> i think EXPRESS is basically XML before there was such a thing
01:02 < kanzure> klafka: sure! tons re: open source hardware compatibility, design, etc.
01:02 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:02 < klafka> can they be phrased in such  a way i don
01:02 < klafka> er
01:03 < klafka> ok let me start over, can they be phrased in such a way i don't have to dig too deep into the field to find the answer
01:03 < fenn> yea i dont think it'd be hard to make python bindings for openscad
01:03 < klafka> like if you can give me a well defined problem maybe i could solve
01:03 < klafka> or problem my advisor would be interested in
01:03 < klafka> that would be super keen actually
01:03 < kanzure> klafka: does your advisor have any interest in microfluidics?
01:04 < kanzure> wait, who is your advisor? can you let me stlak him for a bit
01:04 < klafka> not really, he works a lot in imaging, more generally we both like high tree-width/high dimensional graphical models
01:04 < fenn> klafka: it's not machine learning but optimization of geometry for minimum amount of plastic for maximum rigidity
01:04 < klafka> http://people.rit.edu/jcdicsa/
01:04 < neobii> kanzure: could you print out something if someone gave you a stl?
01:04 < fenn> given a few interfaces and forces on them
01:05 < kanzure> neobii: yes but i'd have to use someone else's machine
01:05 < klafka> fenn are they optimization problems you have to solve numerous times?
01:05 < klafka> like real time optimization solving
01:05 < klafka> it seems like a min max problem eh?
01:05 < kanzure> klafka: that sounds more like the problem domain that CAM tries to solve
01:05 < neobii> what's keeping you from making a reprap machine?
01:05 < fenn> i saw something with level set but i didnt really understand it
01:05 < klafka> is it linear? convex? 
01:07 < genehacker> oh man this is hilarious, everyone in the media's flipping out over Craig Venter's let's synthesize a genome that's found in nature, slap some watermarks on it, and put it in an organism and boot it up
01:07 < klafka> i know genehacker 
01:07 < klafka> it's a bit ridiculous
01:07 < klafka> they did a bit more than that though didn't they?
01:07 < neobii> hehe I read that article and that's how I ended up here
01:07 < kanzure> klafka: yeah they had some neat techniques
01:07 < genehacker> nope
01:07 < klafka> didn't they cut a bunch of extraneous genes out of it?
01:07 < kanzure> klafka: 
01:07 < kanzure> klafka: - one-step, isothermal assembly of DNA in vitro:
01:07 < kanzure> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19363495?dopt=Citation
01:07 < genehacker> nope
01:07 < klafka> their point was to make the minimum necessary genome for life
01:08 < kanzure> - whole assembly of oligo-tiles into genes in yeast spheroplasts:
01:08 < kanzure> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19745056?dopt=Citation
01:08 < genehacker> only one on accident
01:08 < klafka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycoplasma_laboratorium
01:08 < genehacker> cool stuff though
01:08 < genehacker> nope
01:08 < kanzure> no this wasn't the minimal genome project
01:08 < klafka> oh it's not htat guy
01:08 < klafka> wow that's even less impressive
01:08 < genehacker> they haven't booted up Mycoplasma laboratorium
01:08 < genehacker> it is that guy
01:08 < genehacker> if you mean venter
01:08 < klafka> no i mean it's not mycoplasma laboratorium
01:08 < klafka> i know it's venter
01:08 < klafka> venter likes to plaster his name on everything
01:09 < genehacker> yup even in the genomes of bacteria
01:09 < kanzure> you would too if the media portrayed you as some sort of demigod of synthetic biology
01:09 < genehacker> well apparently I have to go to bed, because I have to get on a "normal" sleep schedule
01:09 -!- zool [~18074349@gateway/web/freenode/x-iymcohwntozxoycw] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:10 < kanzure> for some reason drew endy always seemed to have the same "hype sense" that i get from ycombinator crowds :/
01:10 < zool> hi
01:10 < kanzure> have you guys noticed how drew hasn't had as much media attention?
01:10 < kanzure> i think his lab was sent to stanford because of some ah, issues
01:10 < klafka> ycombinator message boards are  a pit kind of
01:10 < kanzure> http://allyourstartuparebelongto.us/
01:10 < genehacker> PLEASE RESUME NORMAL CONVERSATION
01:10 < klafka> lol
01:11 < klafka> fenn i'm still interested in this thing " <fenn> klafka: it's not machine learning but optimization of geometry for minimum amount of plastic for maximum rigidity " got any more info on it? 
01:12 < neobii> were you part of the reprap machine display at maker fair last year?
01:12 < fenn> yes i'm searching for the page
01:12 < klafka> because one thing we're thinking of working on is a way to work on a project that is a way of optimizing optimization problems so that they are more effeective for stuff like real time optimizations
01:12 < klafka> ok
01:12 < kanzure> yo dawg i heard you like optimization so i'm optimizing your optimization optimization algorithm so you can optimize while you optimize your optimized optimizations
01:13 < fenn> klafka google for calculix optimization
01:13 < klafka> yo dawg i heard you liked optimization so i'm optimizing your optimization so you can optimize while you optimize
01:13 < fenn> and look at http://www.onlinefeasolver.com/load_path.php
01:13 < fenn> i dont remember the level set paper but it yielded 3d meshes looking sort of like those diagrams
01:14 < klafka> oh so it's finite element analysis
01:14 < genehacker> I'll post some research related to this
01:14 < klafka> there are all these posters on this shit in the applied science and technology peoples stuff
01:14 < genehacker> there's a researcher here doing exactly that fenn
01:15 < fenn> ok well add "how to actually make it" on top of that
01:16 < klafka> so you want the optimal geometric structure that minimizes i guess volume while maximizing rigidty
01:16 < genehacker> ROBUST DESIGN OF CELLULAR MATERIALS WITH
01:16 < genehacker> TOPOLOGICAL AND DIMENSIONAL IMPERFECTIONS
01:16 < fenn> yep and also satisfy various other constraints
01:16 < genehacker> google scholar that 
01:16 < klafka> hmm and you give what as inputs? the dimensions you want it to be? and rigidity in a given dimension/dimensions?
01:17 < fenn> oh seepersad finally decided to do something worthwhile?
01:17 < genehacker> you know seepersad?
01:17 < fenn> the name got stuck in my head at one point so i investigated
01:18 < fenn> it's right down the hall from ADL
01:18 < kanzure> "due diligence"
01:18 < kanzure> i need to find some chinese solidworks users to hire and abuse
01:18 < genehacker> far better idea than openscad people
01:19 -!- genehacker [~genehacke@pool-173-57-40-144.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: you can help me save the Earth from a terrible experience, yes the whole Earth.]
01:19 < kanzure> wtf is up with his part message anyway
01:19 < fenn> i dont think the cellular materials thing is what i'm talking about
01:20 < kanzure> i am also interested in somehow fixing the temporal discrepancy in hardware construction that i've been observing.. fixing it seems, uh, valuable
01:20 < fenn> i mean stuff like http://www.nextnature.net/2007/10/bone-chair/
01:21 < klafka> i think if you could give me the optimization problem a bit more abstractly as opposed to learn about dimensional analysis, rigidity, etc... then it would be workable, or is the problem in developing the optimization problem itself?
01:21 < fenn> more abstractly? that's the first time i've heard that excuse
01:22 < klafka> really? talk with more mathematicians
01:22 < klafka> :P
01:22 < fenn> i have a set of interfaces, i want to connect them together without wasting material
01:22 < fenn> automatically generate plausible geometry that doesn't suck
01:22 < kanzure> i've been working with a mathematician recently on some, uh, web development.. and he wants to do all these latex whitepapers on tag clouds before implementing a simple weighted tag cloud
01:22 < fenn> i dont really know how to make this more abstract
01:22  * kanzure doesn't get it
01:23 < klafka> ok, do you have the actual physics equations you would need to optimize for that though fenn? 
01:23 < klafka> like ok let's take a chair
01:23 < fenn> "implement a robust graph structure with edge weights proportional to their expected usage"
01:23 < klafka> you need to have maximum rigidity in certain vdirections
01:23 < kanzure> fenn: be careful, you might end up locked into thinking like that
01:24 < fenn> INTEGRATE
01:24 < kanzure> night
01:25 < fenn> klafka: there's beam bending equations, it's much simpler to use finite element method with just tension and compression though
01:25 < klafka> there is probably some newtonian formula for calculating rigidity eh?  so you need to input in what directions you need the rigidity to go, the dimensions of the interfaces, how much rigidity you need, and the equations for rigidity with the constants for the material and stuff
01:25 < klafka> eh
01:26 < klafka> but it seems like this isn't really all that hard of an optimization problem, it seems it's more of a problem of designing the optimization problems 
01:26 < fenn> you can represent a beam with a mesh of triangles and get the same result
01:26 < klafka> interesting
01:26 < fenn> yeah i mean everything is simple when you understand it
01:26 < fenn> but it always takes longer than you think
01:26 < fenn> it's not really a hard problem
01:26 < fenn> just something that comes up all the time that nobody seems to give a shit about for some reason
01:27 < fenn> "oh this problem isnt hard enough, fuck it"
01:27 < fenn> HUH?
01:27 < fenn> do you see the reason i want this procedure in the first place?
01:27 < klafka> well it sort of straddles the line where it's important to the domain but not interesting to the person who wants to develop new techniques to solve problems 
01:27 < klafka> i do see
01:28 < fenn> so then i can simply vary the interface locations and everything else magically falls into place
01:28 < klafka> yep
01:28 < klafka> do you think you  can just modify an existing FEA system to do this?
01:28 -!- Incarnation [~lorem@66.51.248.231] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:28 < fenn> FEA just evaluates the "cost function" (if i'm using the term right)
01:29 < fenn> actually figuring out what to do next is outside of the scope of FEA
01:29 < klafka> so you want to minimize the cost function right?
01:29 < fenn> yep
01:29 < fenn> cost = flex + amount of material used + complexity
01:30 < klafka> ok so now we're getting somewhere, so we have a cost-space, i'm going to guess this is an incredibly non-convex space huh?
01:30 -!- zool [~18074349@gateway/web/freenode/x-iymcohwntozxoycw] has left #hplusroadmap []
01:30 < fenn> hmm.. for just mechanical parts, no, it's rather straightforward
01:31 < fenn> if we start adding other functions to the geometry then it gets more interesting
01:31 < klafka> fenn do you know what i mean by non-convex? 
01:31 < fenn> i think so.. you can vary parameters continuously in a convex space
01:31 < fenn> this was something i was supposed to read about yesterday and didnt have time
01:32 < klafka> no, a convex space, is well in 2d it's one that curves upwards basically and is continuous too yes
01:33 < klafka> basically the thing abotu convex spaces are they are the things we are really good at optimizing because findinga local optima implies you've found a global optima
01:33 < fenn> convex just means one global minimum or maximum?
01:33 < klafka> that's strictly convex
01:33 < klafka> a convex space is that any local minima is a global minima
01:34 < fenn> that's what i just said
01:34 < klafka> no, there is a difference between one local minima and multiple local minima
01:34 < fenn> if there's only one local minimum then it's the global minimum, no?
01:34 < klafka> you can have multiple solutions with a convex function, you can have only one solution with a strictly convex
01:35 < fenn> yes so a trough vs a bowl
01:35 < klafka> right
01:35 < fenn> ok so why do i care?
01:36 < klafka> oh you don't particularly ,i was just making the comment that it was probably a really non-convex space, because it seems like you're probably solving lots of weird compled PDEs numerically 
01:37 < klafka> it just requires different tools to solve the problem
01:37 < fenn> so simulated annealing instead of gradient descent
01:37 < klafka> yeah maybe, hopefully something better than that 
01:38 < fenn> sometimes i wonder why people don't just start out with "the big guns"
01:38 < klafka> what are the big guns? simulated annealing? Because it's really really slow
01:38 < fenn> meta meta optimizer optimizer
01:38 < klafka> and no guarantee on finding a good solution
01:38 < fenn> but really really slow doesn't fucking matter if you're running lots of different experiments at low resolution
01:39 < fenn> i see people running extremely detailed simulations for days at a time to get the answer that they set up the simulation wrong
01:39 < klafka> hahaha
01:39 < klafka> ugh i've done that so much :(
01:39 < klafka> w/ Gradient descent nonetheless
01:39 < fenn> most of this stuff should be done at such a low resolutoin you can interact with it in real time
01:40 < klafka> well your problem yeah perhaps
01:40 < fenn> any problem
01:40 < fenn> no data set is this complex
01:40 < klafka> hahaha
01:40 < klafka> i disagree
01:40 < fenn> if you think you need to analyze all 9 million data points at once you're doing it wrong
01:41 < fenn> the universe behaves in a rational predictable manner (except for where it doesnt)
01:41 < klafka> i dont' think you can accurately say that without context, it depends on the scope of the problem you're trying to solve
01:41 < klafka> and the nature of the problem itself
01:42 < fenn> i just want the computer to work out the answer on its own
01:42 < klafka> for instance take image classification at a certain level that involves classifying individual pixels, a 100x100 image (pretty low res) has 100,000 classifications that needs to be done
01:42 < fenn> without me holding its hand every step of the way
01:42 < fenn> "does gradient descent converge? no? try the next magic trick"
01:42 < klafka> well the thing is, does gradient descent not converge because of a theoretical or an implementation reason
01:43 < fenn> implementation meaning the optimization parameters?
01:43 < fenn> like step size, convergence threshold
01:43 < klafka> yeah, like step size
01:43 < klafka> mainly
01:43 < fenn> well, that seems fairly easy for a computer to fiddle
01:43 < fenn> (two for loops)
01:44 < fenn> a couple timeouts
01:44 < klafka> yeah but what if doing one run of GD takes one day
01:44 < fenn> don't do it that way
01:44 < fenn> wtf
01:44 < fenn> why would it take a day?
01:44 < fenn> "yer doin it wrong"
01:45 < klafka> oftentimes because you have to approximate parts of the gradient
01:45 < klafka> usually via MCMC
01:45 < fenn> can i have an example problem where you'd use MCMC?
01:46 -!- Incarnation [~lorem@66.51.248.231] has quit []
01:48 < klafka> sure,  you want to learn a markov random field via gradient descent for whatever reason (imaging, bionetwork inference, etc...) but the gradient requires you to calculate the derivative of the partition function, now the partition function is the logsumexp of the function over the entire space, the derivative is not calculable, but you can estimate it by taking an average of the sample
01:49 < fenn> an average of the sample... (cut off)
01:50 < fenn> or perhaps i'm just not understanding
01:50 < fenn> it's probably time for bed
01:50 < klafka> yeah most likely
01:51 < klafka> i'm trying to extrapolate from my specific instance and make it general, all we had to actually do is take the difference of the mean of the training data vs. the mean of the samples 
01:52 < klafka> convergence happened when that difference became 0
01:53 < fenn> maybe you forgot to add a constant
01:54 < klafka> sorry?
01:59 < fenn> oh, another geometry thing that's probably more up your alley: reverse engineering mesh (STL) files to CSG
02:00 < fenn> and various "3D scanning" 
02:00 < klafka> hmm
02:00 < klafka> the STL I know is standard template library
02:01 < klafka> they are various like cad formats?
02:01 < klafka> ah i see
02:02 < klafka> hmm that's an interesting problem
02:04 < fenn> stl stands for 'stereolithography format' which basically means 'bag of triangles'
02:05  * fenn sleeps
02:05  * fenn dreams of spam and bacn
02:06 < fenn> if you can make a program to sort diybio by interest to me, i'd pay you a million dollars
02:07 < klafka> lol
02:07 < klafka> i tell you open design sequencer that can be largely made via a reprap
02:07 < klafka> that'd be fucking useful
02:07 -!- dustbin [~chatzilla@71.145.162.129] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:08 < fenn> ok first things first, gotta get the reprap working
02:09 < klafka> but really about the other thing w/ the interfaces, has anyone tried doing something like simulated annealing or an evolutionary algorithm to do that?
02:09 < klafka> or greedy hill climbing perhaps
02:10 < klafka> that'd be a lot faster 
02:25 -!- dustbin is now known as dustbin|afk
02:50 -!- dustbin|afk is now known as dustbin
02:59 -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-19-200.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:05 -!- dustbin is now known as dustbin|afk
03:50 -!- dustbin|afk is now known as dustbin
04:04 -!- Noahj [~noa@24.38.189.39] has joined #hplusroadmap
04:05 -!- dustbin is now known as dustbin|afk
05:37 -!- ferrouswheel [~joel@121-98-81-17.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
05:40 -!- ferrouswheel [~joel@121-98-81-17.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:54 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-57-16-175.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:57 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-57-16-175.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit]
06:01 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-57-16-175.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:05 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-57-16-175.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit]
06:28 -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-19-200.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:33 -!- dustbin|afk is now known as dustbin
07:12 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has quit [Quit: leaving]
07:29 -!- zvader_ [~zvader@heckle.icmb.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:39 -!- shepazu [~schepers@76-253-3-102.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: shepazu]
08:18 -!- thesnark [enderkillb@dhcp-84-252.me.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:19 < thesnark> its too bad we can't all have a huge party about the cell being created
08:19 < thesnark> I mean, that's like
08:19 < thesnark> today is a great day
08:21 < kanzure> thesnark: it's not as important as the media is making it out to be
08:23 < thesnark> o rly
08:23 < thesnark> I mean
08:23 < thesnark> I can sort out through most of the fluff but I guess it seemed like a big milestone to me since I haven't been following it
08:24 < Utopiah> about Craig Venture?
08:24 < thesnark> yeah
08:28 < Utopiah> to me that's pretty much 10 years he's repeating the same thing so maybe Im not following enough to be in awe
08:30 < thesnark> that he made a living cell?
08:30 < thesnark> he has said it before?
08:30 < Utopiah> he made a living cell from scratch? guess I need to re-read the articles
08:31 < thesnark> yeah
08:31 < thesnark> that is his claim
08:34 < Utopiah> http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100520/full/news.2010.253.html
08:36 < Utopiah>  "'reboot' a cell from a different species of bacterium" + "The custom-built genome is a near-exact replica of its natural counterpart" + etc so I think "from scratch" is rather exagerated anyway
08:37 < kanzure> i thought it was a chromosome assembly technique
08:37 < kanzure> and then they inserted the chromosome into the cell
08:38 < Utopiah> thesnark: so Im not saying it's not great and I could do the same but to me it sounds like Stephen Wolfram saying (again) that he nearly invented copmutation... it's great marketing though
08:40 < Utopiah> my related page btw http://fabien.benetou.fr/ReadingNotes/Protocells
08:46 < Utopiah> interview for Science he made yesterday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47rUrlzdK3k
08:55  * kanzure wonders if there's a machine shop in the middle of nyc
09:15 -!- randallagordon [~randallag@c-71-59-165-136.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:22 < thesnark> haha Utopiah I so agree with you about Wolfram, he's so full of himself :)
09:23 < Utopiah> his last blog post about 1 year W|A made me think about that
09:23 < thesnark> kanzure I think you can probably count on it
09:24 < thesnark> http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100520/full/news.2010.253.html
09:24 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:24 < thesnark> oops
09:24 < thesnark> sry
09:29 < thesnark> http://gizmodo.com/5543774/immaculate-creation-birth-of-the-first-synthetic-cell I think this is a good summary for the general public
09:29 < thesnark> ok I'm done
09:31  * Utopiah still can't believe that in 2010 scientific related article have religion connoted term in their title, seriously what the fuck.
09:32 < thesnark> john q public is still relatively...what's the word
09:32 < thesnark> stupid is too harsh
09:33 < thesnark> Utopiah we just have to work with things as they are I suppose
09:34 < Utopiah> Ill let the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster decide that.
09:38 < thesnark> :)
09:40 < kanzure> http://diybio.labitat.dk/index.php/Project_suggestions
09:40 -!- Redeemer [~lorddeeme@c-75-72-218-226.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:43 < kanzure> http://justrade.co.uk/?tag=join-the-diybio "Dale has a piece for his O'Reilly Radar column on what he's dubbed "make-offs," low-budget knock-offs of scientific and industrial technology, ..."
09:44 < kanzure> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/05/make-offs_diy_indie_innovations.html
09:45 < kanzure> oh please. pearl biotech. :/
09:45 < kanzure> "It is a version of what China has been doing to America, benefiting from the R&D that goes into refining the specifications, developing prototypes and building a finished product.
09:45 < kanzure> Only now, with new digital fabrication techniques and open source hardware and software, individuals and small companies are in a position to compete globally with a distinctly DIY approach to innovation.
09:45 < kanzure> It's a new independent source of creative work, similar to what indie films are to Hollywood films developed in-house. It's open, collaborative and done on the cheap."
09:46 < kanzure> "Tito Jankowski is one of the organizers of the DIYbio community" whaaat
09:47 < kanzure> http://www.biocurious.org/index.php?title=Founding_Members
09:48 -!- Redeemer [~lorddeeme@c-75-72-218-226.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
09:48 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/biocurious
09:59 -!- randallagordon [~randallag@c-71-59-165-136.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:08 < thesnark> kanzure great, they equate DIYbio with indie films
11:08 < thesnark> not sure if that's a flattering comparison
11:57 < neobii> argh going to miss maker faire this year
11:57 < neobii> wasn't that cool last year though
11:58 < neobii> lots of kids and craft people
11:59 -!- dustbin [~chatzilla@71.145.162.129] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401074458]]
12:00 -!- neobii [~chatzilla@75-30-249-187.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net] has left #hplusroadmap []
12:01 -!- neobii_ [neobii@the.terrorists.armed.us] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:01 < neobii_> ls
12:01 < neobii_> win 1
12:01 -!- dustbin [~chatzilla@adsl-71-145-162-129.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:02 -!- neobii_ [neobii@the.terrorists.armed.us] has quit [Client Quit]
12:05 -!- neobii [neobii@the.terrorists.armed.us] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:05 < neobii> there we go
12:58 -!- heath [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:58 -!- ybit3 [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:09 -!- ybit3 [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:10 -!- heath [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:15 -!- thesnark [enderkillb@dhcp-84-252.me.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: ""]
13:28 < Utopiah> http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/news-as-cyberpunk/one-mans-quest-to-outfit-diabetics-with-robotic-pancreases/
13:29 < kanzure> that easily sounds like a slasher
13:30 < kanzure> diabetics, you better watch out or the next thing you know your pancreas will be laying beside you on a surgery table
13:44 -!- Redeemer [~lorddeeme@c-75-72-218-226.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:45 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-57-16-175.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:51 -!- ybit3 [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
14:05 -!- heath [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:12 -!- heath [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
14:14 -!- heath [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:23 < jrayhawk> Utopiah: Re: synthetic cell: it's one small step for the field of science, but it's monumental in the field of philosophy. The journalist emphasized the more significant element.
14:25 -!- ferrouswheel [~joel@121-98-81-17.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:26 < Utopiah> I think Venter likes to define tippings points before philosophers and journalists do so in order to leverage more press coverage. Once again "synthetic biology" is not really new and they are not the only team working on it; cf link posted earlier.
14:27 -!- ferrouswheel [~joel@121-98-81-17.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:27 < jrayhawk> True dat.
14:31 < jrayhawk> He had remarkable discipline and competence in that antagonistic interview posted earlier. He clearly knows what he's doing in the PR department.
14:31 -!- ybit3 [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:31 -!- heath [~quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:25 -!- Redeemer [~lorddeeme@c-75-72-218-226.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:35 -!- Redeemer [~lorddeeme@c-75-72-218-226.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:49 -!- quantumkat [~kat@ip72-196-96-148.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
15:49 -!- quantumkat [~kat@ip72-196-96-148.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:11 -!- dustbin [~chatzilla@adsl-71-145-162-129.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:56 -!- shepazu [~schepers@68.65.72.50.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:08 < QuantumG> he's doing cool science and funding it with buzz..  I don't know whether that's a good or a bad thing :)
17:22 < QuantumG> "We're not playing." - Craig Venter on accusations that he's playing God.
17:24 < jrayhawk> NICE
17:25 -!- shepazu [~schepers@68.65.72.50.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit [Quit: shepazu]
17:25 < QuantumG> OMG, google homepage graphic ftw
17:37 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
17:41 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:45 -!- elmom [~elmom@hoasnet-fe29dd00-137.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:45 -!- elmom [~elmom@hoasnet-fe29dd00-137.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:48 -!- quantumkat [~kat@ip72-196-96-148.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:21 -!- Redeemer [~lorddeeme@c-75-72-218-226.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:49 -!- Incarnation [~lorem@66.51.248.231] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:52 < kanzure> what do you do when someone reveals to you that they sold their family-owned company for 9 digits?
19:58 < kanzure> like, what do you say
20:18 < fenn> grumble mumble.. lost my laptop charger at google
20:20 < QuantumG> kanzure: "nice exit strategy" I guess
20:20 < kanzure> so i'm making a startup about excitement
20:20 < kanzure> it's a pyramid scheme of excitement
20:20 < kanzure> where i get ten people excited, who must pass on this pitch
20:20 < kanzure> we have no exit strategy yet
20:20 < fenn> should i try to hack together a charger and possibly blow up my laptop?
20:20 < kanzure> but i'm really exicted
20:20 < kanzure> *excited
20:20 < kanzure> damn it.
20:20 < kanzure> fenn: probably not, no
20:21 < kanzure> (10:22:46 PM) Spicko Vina: Have you ever read Transmetropolitan?
20:21 < kanzure> but about any of you guys
20:21 < kanzure> *what
20:21 < fenn> no
20:21 < QuantumG> :)
20:27 < kanzure> (10:29:34 PM) Spicko Vina: are you familiar with another comic from ellis, doktor sleeples?
20:29 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:34 -!- wilywonka [~wilywonka@68-114-199-12.dhcp.clma.mo.charter.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:40 < kanzure> hi wilywonka :)
20:40 < kanzure> lawl @ diybio troll:
20:40 < kanzure> 20:49 < noob_> Is there a gene you can put in a bacteria to make it produce  gold or some other precious metal?
20:40 < wilywonka> have you guys seen http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/church_venter09/church_venter09_index.html
20:41  * kanzure likes edge.org a lot
20:41 < wilywonka> takes quite awhile to watch but very good
20:41 < kanzure> i usually just read the articles instead of watching
20:41 < wilywonka> i ffmpeg'd it and watched it streamed to my xbox360 
20:47 < kristianpaul> kanzure: how was the smart grid meeting?
21:29 < kanzure> the guy got into a car accident today and couldn't make it to the meeting
21:30 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
21:32 -!- Tuna [~Tuna@71-95-239-140.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:01 < kanzure> hello Tuna 
22:13 < JayDugger> Fenn: No. Buy a charger.
22:14 < JayDugger> Kanzure: Yes, I like Ellis, but his endings all stink. Supergod's quite good. Planetary remains his best work to date. Doktor Sleepless, less so.
22:16 < JayDugger> Of H+ interest, his comics Orbiter, Supergod, Global Frequency, Mek, and Iron Man: Extremis all rank high.
22:16 < JayDugger> (I'm forgetting one, at least, but--oh right. Your neighbor's blog reminds me: Ministry of Space.)
22:17 < JayDugger> http://strategicphilosophy.blogspot.com/2009/05/comics-of-transhumanist-interest.html
22:17 -!- Tuna [~Tuna@71-95-239-140.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:17 < JayDugger> Sigh. Scared away by off-topic talk, I suppose.
22:18 < JayDugger> I toss a quarter in the off-topic jar as penalty.
23:49 -!- Incarnation [~lorem@66.51.248.231] has quit []