--- Day changed Fri Jun 18 2010 00:00 -!- elevenarms [~elevenarm@71.22.122.198] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:00 -!- elevenarms [~elevenarm@71.22.122.198] has quit [Client Quit] 00:02 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:02 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:20 -!- streety [~Jonathan@host86-174-98-55.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:29 -!- streety [~Jonathan@host86-174-98-55.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:06 -!- genehacker [~notanemai@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:02 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-71-232-51-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:22 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:38 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:45 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:03 -!- genehacker [~notanemai@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:17 -!- genehacker [~notanemai@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:19 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:23 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23 -!- cluckj [sors@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:25 -!- cluckj [sors@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25 -!- cluckj [cluckj@cpe-72-231-169-163.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:43 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@237.sub-75-194-140.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:56 -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-25-202.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:03 -!- dustbin [~chatzilla@adsl-71-145-162-129.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03 -!- dustbin [~chatzilla@adsl-71-145-162-129.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:08 -!- dustbin [~chatzilla@adsl-71-145-162-129.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:09 -!- dustbin [~chatzilla@adsl-71-145-162-129.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:40 -!- genehacker [genehacker@w-mob400-128-62-218-51.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:48 -!- genehacker [genehacker@w-mob400-128-62-218-51.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:53 -!- strages [~strages@c-76-29-243-225.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:59 -!- strages [~strages@c-76-29-243-225.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:00 -!- splicer [~foo@92.39.2.19] has quit [] 07:02 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:18 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-71-232-51-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 07:30 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:42 < AJollyLife> ugh. my blood sugar is really high this morning, 112 :(. no idea why either 07:43 -!- pmetzger [~pmetzger@237.sub-75-194-140.myvzw.com] has left #hplusroadmap [] 07:44 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:51 -!- splicer [~patrik@h68n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:04 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:06 < LilxHK> some fructose intake? 08:09 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:18 < kanzure> http://kaggle.com/blog/2010/06/17/%EF%BB%BFwhat-has-bioinformatics-ever-done-for-us 08:20 < kanzure> http://www.sciencecentric.com/news/10061750-citizen-science-birders-contribute-valuable-data-on-invasive-plant-species.html 08:20 < kanzure> http://johnohab.com/2010/06/17/washington-state-of-the-science/ 08:20 < kanzure> http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/17/pescos-talk-from-ted.html 08:20 < kanzure> http://olyopen.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/plastics-summit-draws-a-crowd/ 08:21 < kanzure> stalk: Maureen McConnell 08:21 < kanzure> http://raptureofthedeep.org/index.php/2010/06/17/citizen-scientist/ 08:23 < kanzure> pacific biosciences getting funding: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gen-probe-makes-50-million-strategic-investment-in-third-generation-sequencing-company-pacific-biosciences-96591544.html 08:25 < kanzure> heh: http://celebritydiagnosis.com/ "presents famous patients as medical lessons" 08:25 < kanzure> oh, ozzy 08:25 < kanzure> https://www.dtmi.duke.edu/news-publications/updates/the-path-to-personalized-medicine-nejm-perspective 08:25 < kanzure> podcast on personalized medicine: http://castroller.com/podcasts/MelbourneUniversityUp2/1694522-Episode%2095%20Personalized%20Medicine%20Treatments%20Tailored%20to%20Your%20Unique%20Genetic%20Profile 08:26 < kanzure> http://www.prx.org/pieces/47636-the-era-of-personalized-medicine 08:26 < kanzure> 23andme hitting fox news: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594830,00.html 08:27 < kanzure> say, when did navigenics show up on the scene? as far as i know, 23andme and decodeme are the main bosses 08:28 < kanzure> re: what has bioinformatics ever done for us: 08:28 < kanzure> 10:28 < kanzure> Oort: awf-edwards 08:28 < kanzure> 10:28 < Oort> Modern practitioners have too much data and are engaged in a theory-free reduction of it under the neologism 'bioinformatics'. 08:33 < kanzure> Global and local fMRI signals driven by neurons defined optogenetically by type and wiring http://designfiles.org/papers/neuro/Global%20and%20local%20fMRI%20signals%20driven%20by%20neurons%20defined%20optogenetically%20by%20type%20and%20wiring.pdf 08:49 < kanzure> jason bobe and woodrow wilson center are going to be doing some "biosafety" stuff.. not sure what though 08:50 < kanzure> hey what was that dopamine-based fMRI reporter that mikhail shapiro at hplus summit was talking about? 08:50 < kanzure> Directed evolution of a magnetic resonance imaging contrast agent for noninvasive imaging of dopamine 08:51 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/papers/neuro/Directed%20evolution%20of%20a%20magnetic%20resonance%20imaging%20contrast%20agent%20for%20noninvasive%20imaging%20of%20dopamine.pdf 08:53 < kanzure> http://scienceblogs.com/neurotopia/2010/06/what_does_that_mri_signal_mean.php 09:03 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-237-187.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:06 < eridu> Next Big Future's RSS subscribers doubled to 12,000 in the last year 09:07 < eridu> at this rate, all of the US will be subscribe to Next Big Future by 2023 09:08 < eridu> and the entire world by about 2030 09:16 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-237-187.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:22 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:23 -!- genehacker [~notanemai@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:31 < AJollyLife> random thought of the day, should deathrow inmates be allowed to sign up for cryonics? 09:34 < uniqanomaly> if they accept redesign of their mind routines which led to violence ;) 09:35 < uniqanomaly> after ressurection 09:35 < uniqanomaly> resurrection* 09:37 < uniqanomaly> accept redesign before cryo, redesign when technology will be available, and then resurrection, obviously 09:38 < AJollyLife> works for me. i also wonder if life insurance pays out in case of the state executing you 09:39 < uniqanomaly> lol, nice question 09:39 < AJollyLife> i guess you would have to keep up with paying the premiums 09:40 < uniqanomaly> ;) 09:40 < AJollyLife> im going to have to ask my insurance agent this....although he might look at me funny 09:40 < uniqanomaly> yeah, definitely 09:40 < AJollyLife> i know it pays out in the case of sucide 09:46 < kive> I think that depends on the policy -- some have anti-suicide clauses, iirc 09:46 < kive> interesting question, though 09:52 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has quit [Quit: mheld] 09:53 < kanzure> cool there's an entire article now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfluidic_Sanger_sequencing 09:54 < AJollyLife> kive: i know mine doesn't, i checked before I signed up :) 09:54 -!- streety [~Jonathan@host86-174-98-55.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:54 < AJollyLife> i belive most companines anti-sucide clauses are for 2 years from the start of the policy 10:07 -!- LilxHK [~LilxHK@c906548b.virtua.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10 -!- lepton [~john@216.sub-75-231-204.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:12 < kanzure> pyrosequencing has a lot of steps involved 10:12 < kanzure> but this looks a lot cleaner: http://designfiles.org/papers/Real-time%20DNA%20sequencing%20from%20single%20polymerase%20molecules.pdf 10:15 < kanzure> qualitatively, i'm not sure if it's better than direct DNA sequencing via AFM: http://designfiles.org/papers/AFM-DNA-sequencing/ 10:32 -!- mheld [~mheld@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:41 < kanzure> i don't remember "- Tyson Anderson: Problem Solving: DIYbio and Real World Issues" from hplus summit 2009 11:15 -!- lepton [~john@216.sub-75-231-204.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17 -!- lepton [~john@7.sub-75-220-66.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:17 < kanzure> hi lepton 11:21 -!- lepton [~john@7.sub-75-220-66.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:23 -!- lepton [~john@67.sub-75-231-222.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:27 -!- streety [~Jonathan@host86-174-98-55.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:29 < lepton> Hey kanzure 11:29 < lepton> Sorry my internet drops in and out so much :/ 11:29 < kanzure> heh 11:30 < lepton> I was so hopeful for the FCC spectrum auction landing some decent open wireless a few years back 11:30 < lepton> Would be been awesome now... 11:30 < lepton> oh well 11:30 < kanzure> did you read about the fcc issues re: sirius xm? 11:30 < lepton> I'm still in the midst of converting our CNC over to EMC2 11:30 < lepton> Hmm, don't think I did 11:31 < kanzure> http://satwaves.com/blog/2010/05/02/sirius-xm-delivers-strong-notice-to-the-fcc/ 11:32 < kanzure> basically the protection of sirius xm communications went from 1 khz to 1 millihertz or something 11:32 < lepton> wow 11:32 < kanzure> yeah.. so they started to uh, notice that ;) 11:32 < lepton> yeah! 11:33 < lepton> This modern world... 11:33 < kanzure> sirius hired a guy named ted rappaport to do a technical analysis and review of the situation 11:33 < kanzure> http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7020442790 11:33 < kanzure> i'm going over to his house later today to show him how to use ubuntu :P 11:34 < lepton> To a certain extent I'd prefer they just reform the whole wireless spectrum mangement so we can get some actual cross contiental open internet 11:34 < lepton> But it seems like I'm gonna have to colonize my own planet, or something, if I ever want to see open wireless standards 11:34 < lepton> ha 11:35 < lepton> Do you happen to have any experience setting up Mesa PCI boards with EMC2? 11:35 < kanzure> fenn: are you around? 11:35 < lepton> there seems to be a lack of knowledge base with pncconf on the emc irc 11:35 < kanzure> lepton: no, but i literally just bought some mesa boards 11:35 < lepton> what'd you get? 11:36 < fenn> no 11:36 < kanzure> 5i20, 7i37TA, 3x 7i40HV 11:36 < lepton> Nice 11:36 < lepton> I've got a 5i23 11:37 < lepton> and a 7i47 and 7i42ta 11:37 < kanzure> the 5i20 is just flat out awesome 11:37 < lepton> I've gotta get this running by the end of the weekend 11:38 < lepton> Have you run it, yet? 11:38 < kanzure> no, not yet 11:38 < kanzure> i need to get some extra connector wires and stuff from mcmaster or digikey or something 11:38 * kanzure wonders where elevenarms is 11:38 < kanzure> the arm is over at elevenarms' shop with the electronics now 11:39 < kanzure> last week they tried to deliver the electronics but couldn't because i'm under 21 >_< 11:39 < lepton> Oh gosh, I spent probably 20 hours dealing with stupid centronix cable connector madness this week 11:39 < lepton> well, more like 10, but still 11:39 < kanzure> yeah :( 11:39 < kanzure> i had to find a centronix cable for the laser cutter to work 11:39 < lepton> wouldn't deliver electronics because you're under 21? wtf? 11:40 < lepton> a centronix 36 pin mini with ALL PINS? Most only have 34 pins connected 11:40 < lepton> head-slap 11:40 < lepton> I could have run with 34 pins, but I needed pin 18 for our position quadrature 11:40 < kanzure> what are you wiring up to? 11:41 < lepton> Vexta AS series stepper drivers 11:41 < lepton> and an HSD 4kW spindle 11:41 < lepton> and a bunch of 24v GPIO for e-stop, limits, etc, etc 11:41 < kanzure> are you using them for anything in particular? 11:41 < lepton> coolant and dust collector control, too 11:41 < kanzure> let's see.. a 4kW spindle.. a few stepper drivers.. i could try to guess the end-result 11:41 < lepton> It's our existing CNC router 11:41 < kanzure> giant cnc machine? giant arm? cat food opener? 11:41 < kanzure> ah 11:42 < lepton> we're trying to get away from the horrific mess that is shopbot software 11:42 < lepton> Words cannot describe how awful it is 11:42 < lepton> I'm honestly very surprised they haven't had legal action taken aganist them yet 11:42 < lepton> and I'm not kidding 11:42 < JayDugger> Worse than mesanet.com's website? 11:42 < kanzure> i haven't used a shopbot yet 11:42 < kanzure> although i saw one at a maker faire here in austin 11:42 < lepton> I like Ted Hall, he's a good guy, but I mean, they control the spindle THOUGH THE WINDOWS REGISTRY 11:43 < kanzure> what the fuck 11:43 < kanzure> you must be shitting me 11:43 < lepton> They got on the MS visual studio train like 10 years ago, and have been stuck there ever since 11:43 < JayDugger> I don't doubt it. Some things are just too awful to be false. 11:43 < lepton> I'm not shitting you at all 11:43 < lepton> The sad thing is, that's only the tip of the iceberg 11:43 < lepton> so yeah, EMC2 here we come 11:44 < lepton> Also, their "Closed loop control" DOESN'T EXIST AT ALL 11:44 < lepton> They don't have the pins connected to their circuit boards 11:44 < lepton> it is a lie 11:44 < lepton> LIE 11:44 < kanzure> a part of my soul just died and fell off 11:44 < lepton> Sorry, I'm kinda sore on the subject rightnow 11:45 < lepton> I don't like paying $25k to control a spindle though the windows registry and get a closed loop control system that doesn't exist at all 11:45 < lepton> and PCBS with right angle traces and no ground pour 11:45 < lepton> and an emergency stop that has to go through the windows registry 11:45 < JayDugger> Really? 11:45 < lepton> OH YES 11:45 < kanzure> well, that's better than what i have going on with the laser cutter 11:45 < kanzure> it took us a month to figure out that the on/off switch for the laser is a sham switch 11:45 < JayDugger> I see your comment about legal action has good reasons. 11:45 < kanzure> it does nothing 11:46 < lepton> Yeah, stay the hell away from shopbot software, it's f-ing dangerous 11:46 < lepton> We lost some good tooling and material to it's F-ups 11:46 < JayDugger> No one hurt, I hope. 11:47 < lepton> fortunately not, but if you consider that they have 1000's of systems out there... 11:47 < JayDugger> Yeah, I don't like those odds. 11:47 < lepton> The saddest part is they are aware of all these problems, we've spent a lot of time talking to them on the phone 11:48 < lepton> but they don't have the will to move away from XP and visual studio 11:48 < lepton> I think they should be shipping EMC2 systems with their control boxes, with the nice "touchy" touch screen interface, it would fit really well with most of their non-techie user base 11:49 < lepton> The end user just wants an appliance, XP be damned (imo) 11:50 < lepton> / end shopbot rant :p 11:55 < AJollyLife> kanzure: diy electronics. its the new crack. 11:55 < lepton> It's my crack, that's for sure :) 11:55 < kanzure> hmm 11:55 < kanzure> mac cowell just butt-dialed me 11:55 < JayDugger> butt-dialed? 11:55 < kanzure> but i have no idea what he's talking about or who he's with 11:55 < JayDugger> Oh. 11:55 < kanzure> yeah, it's where someone with an iphone or touch screen thing accidentally dials your number 11:56 < lepton> I've been a DIY electronics junkie for several years now, it's just turning into less DIY and more DIWYR (do it with your robot) 11:56 < kanzure> hm now there's a door bell 11:56 < JayDugger> Probably the FBI...or DHS...or DOD... 11:56 < JayDugger> or UPS. 11:57 < kanzure> omg he's shopping for clothes :/ 11:57 < kanzure> hipster clothes 12:00 < kanzure> he hung up 12:00 < kanzure> oh well 12:00 < JayDugger> Is orange a good color for him? 12:00 < kanzure> 9min 19sec 12:02 < AJollyLife> I'm partial to orange ;) 12:02 -!- mheld [~mheld@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: mheld] 12:03 < kanzure> http://www.tokyohackerspace.org/ja/event/taking-back-our-world-the-makehackerspacecreativity-movement-2010-06-15 12:04 < kanzure> http://futuresource.trackandmonitormedia.com/?p=59716 "Robots and Dinosaurs - A Hackerspace, mini documentary" 12:05 < kanzure> "I2R BCI Team Receives the Top Prize at International Annual BCI" 12:05 < kanzure> hm there's a "techshop magazine" ? 12:06 < kanzure> fablab+"green" crap: http://www.choicevacuums.com/living-green-blog-posts/digital-design-goes-solar-with-fablab-at-solar-decathlon-europe/ 12:06 < kanzure> 2 week mechanical engineering course offering for kenyans: http://fellowsblog.kiva.org/2010/06/17/exciting-technology-helping-borrowers-changing-east-africa/ 12:07 < kanzure> fablabs at ISTE 2010: http://www.willykjellstrom.com/digital-fabrication-at-iste-2010/ 12:08 < kanzure> a website for teachers to integrate digital fabrication / fablab stuff into coursework: http://www.digitalfabrication.org/ 12:10 < kanzure> fenn: have you talked with halycon molecular yet? 12:13 < kanzure> cool. i was right :) halycon is doing SEM-based whole genome sequencing 12:13 < kanzure> http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2009046445 12:13 -!- mheld [~mheld@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:14 < kanzure> claims: http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2009046445&IA=US2008078986&DISPLAY=CLAIMS 12:14 -!- mheld [~mheld@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 12:15 < kanzure> halycon internship opening: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/sci/1785881449.html (although they have other openings) 12:15 < kanzure> hahah you have to have a BS in biology just to run gels? wtf 12:15 < kanzure> http://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/halcyon-molecular-develops-threading-method-sequence-dna-transmission-em 12:16 < JayDugger> Three years ago Google wanted a Masters to run a scanner for Google Books. 12:17 < kanzure> "individual molecule placement rapid nanotransfer" 12:17 < kanzure> "They are also looking for new methods to speed up the scanning process. It currently takes several hours to get up to 50 images, which cover more than a micrometer of DNA, equivalent to more than 2,000 bases." 12:22 < kanzure> hahah martin bogomolni is having AHS assemble his makerbot for him.. gah 12:24 -!- mheld [~mheld@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:26 -!- mheld [~mheld@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 12:27 < kanzure> what was the name of the services/engineering company that specialized in total documentation and moving of a factory? something about matrix.. matrices.. 12:30 < kanzure> 14:29 < _abc_> kanzure: The Red Army took several factories from 'liberated' Eastern Europe back to Russia 12:31 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:31 < lepton> just got off the phone with Peter at Mesanet, nice guy 12:31 < lepton> I see you're posting in EMC, kanzure 12:36 < kanzure> http://matrixti.com/ maybe.. i don't this was it 12:36 < kanzure> *i don't think 12:42 < drazak> my college summer courses start the monday after my hs graduation :S 12:45 -!- genehacker [~notanemai@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:50 < fenn> why would i care about halcyon molecular? 12:50 < drazak> don't they make some really good shit? or is that someone else 12:50 < fenn> first of all, i don't get what they're doing that makes it "third gen sequencing" or whatever 12:51 < fenn> second, faster and faster sequencing is not really a bottleneck right now 12:52 < fenn> i mean, having my own genome would be nice, but it's not going to save the world 12:52 < drazak> I like the long read length 12:58 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-237-187.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:02 < fenn> there was a tedxSoMa? wtf 13:03 < AJollyLife> fenn: so what would save the world? 13:03 < fenn> "should deathrow inmates be allowed to sign up for cryonics?" only if we provide free cryonics for action hero cops, as seen in "demolition man" 13:06 < fenn> AJollyLife: you know, the usual, AI, nanotech, intelligence enhancement, space colonies 13:07 < lepton> :) 13:07 < lepton> I'm with fenn 13:07 < lepton> as far as that^ list goes 13:10 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-237-187.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:10 < fenn> "DIWYR" ah yes, add "fembots" to the list 13:12 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15 < kanzure> fenn: halcyon molecular got money from founder's fund and has a lot of social networking inertia 13:15 < kanzure> their actual tech doesn't seem particularly brilliant to me 13:15 < kanzure> and why they cover everything in secrecy is just beyond me.. 13:15 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:16 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-133-254.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:22 -!- bkero [~freenode@osuosl/staff/bkero] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25 -!- Noahj [~noah@c-24-62-35-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:36 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-71-232-51-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:49 -!- Alystair [Alystair@bas1-toronto10-1279558942.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:50 -!- bkero [~freenode@osuosl/staff/bkero] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:59 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05 -!- genehacker [genehacker@wireless-128-62-133-254.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:06 -!- genehacker [~notanemai@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:09 -!- lepton [~john@67.sub-75-231-222.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10 -!- bkero [~freenode@osuosl/staff/bkero] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:11 -!- lepton [~john@156.sub-75-231-147.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:14 -!- bkero [~freenode@osuosl/staff/bkero] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:38 < fenn> "First replicating creature spawned in Conway's Game of Life" http://bit.ly/99B8CZ (discovered may 18 2010) 14:41 < fenn> i wonder why there are no pictures of it 14:55 < fenn> i wish there were more things like this http://zedomax.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/retractable_extension_cord.jpg 15:01 < fenn> all right, here's the game of life replicator video http://brightcove.newscientist.com/services/player/bcpid1873822884?bctid=96495265001 15:03 < fenn> blegh 15:15 -!- faceface_ [~dmb@cpc6-dund12-0-0-cust234.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:15 < faceface_> hi 15:16 < faceface_> what is the healthcare saving that could be brought about by free genetic testing? 15:16 < faceface_> looking for some estimates 15:16 < faceface_> i.e. targeted screening programs could save cash, but I don't know how much 15:17 < bkero> How much would an insurance company charge me if I had "bad genes"? 15:18 < cluckj> $0, it's illegal afaik 15:18 < faceface_> http://www.springerlink.com/content/6vkbfrlr7waqk1q6/ 15:18 < bkero> Until the next cabinet change. :P 15:18 < faceface_> table 1 is nice 15:18 < cluckj> hehe 15:18 < bkero> We _just_ got the "pre-existing conditions" clause. 15:18 < faceface_> its illegal right, but they do ask for family history 15:18 < faceface_> which is a proxy for direct testing 15:19 < cluckj> hehe 15:19 < faceface_> bkero: I want to give a talk on these issues 15:19 < bkero> faceface_: 15:19 < faceface_> we need govt to step in here 15:19 < bkero> To carry that one step further 15:19 < bkero> What would the implications be if some researchers discovered a 'gay gene'? 15:20 < bkero> Gene therapy for soliders? 15:21 < cluckj> lol 15:21 < fenn> this channel is no-philosophy, please 15:21 < faceface_> bkero: right 15:21 < bkero> fenn: Hah alright 15:21 < faceface_> I tried to get some discussion on that here: 15:21 < cluckj> I'm not sure how practical ethical issues are philosophy :P 15:21 < bkero> fenn: this channel is no-fenn, please ;) 15:22 < faceface_> http://www.plosone.org/annotation/listThread.action?inReplyTo=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fannotation%2Fcdd25aa3-c25e-4348-a894-f504186e9e7f&root=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fannotation%2Fcdd25aa3-c25e-4348-a894-f504186e9e7f 15:22 < faceface_> fenn: if you can explain to me why 'no-philosophy' whout resourting to philosophical arguments, I'll comply 15:22 < fenn> cluckj: this channel also discourages discussion of ethics 15:23 < cluckj> hehehe 15:23 < faceface_> wow- they realy know the value of short url's on that site! 15:23 < cluckj> why? 15:23 < fenn> faceface_: because the transhumanist community is mired ass-deep in ethics and philosophy discussions, meanwhile nothing gets done 15:23 < faceface_> fenn: let me know when I start impacting your productivity 15:24 < fenn> the whole point of 'hplusroadmap' is "what do we actually have to do before any of these discussions will matter" 15:24 < faceface_> I said no philosophy btw ;-) 15:24 < fenn> it's all the same to me 15:24 < cluckj> fenn so this is a no-future zone :) 15:24 < cluckj> :trollface: 15:24 < fenn> no, you're missing the point 15:25 * faceface_ punches cluckj in hte face 15:25 < cluckj> :) 15:25 * fenn got trolled 15:25 < faceface_> ;-) 15:25 < cluckj> I'm just playin' 15:25 < cluckj> kanzure explained it to me at h+ 15:25 < faceface_> anyway, I'm looking for some hard figures to present to policy makers 15:26 < cluckj> but as an anthropologist, I'm intruigued by it and want to know more about the "why" 15:26 < faceface_> I 100% agree with the philosophy of "do it first, explain it later", but I'm trying to get to this conference and I need a 'credible' talk 15:27 < cluckj> which conference? 15:27 < fenn> faceface_: yeah, numbers are nice 15:27 < faceface_> CSHL personal genomics 15:27 < faceface_> one moment 15:28 < faceface_> http://meetings.cshl.edu/meetings/person10.shtml 15:28 < faceface_> once I get an abstract in, I can appply for travel funds 15:28 < cluckj> :\ 15:28 < cluckj> I might need to go to that 15:28 < cluckj> YOW 15:29 < cluckj> $825 15:29 < faceface_> heh 15:29 < faceface_> what time is it in the states? 15:29 < cluckj> 6:30pm on the east coast 15:29 < faceface_> we have until midnight to get abstracts in and apply for travel funds 15:29 < cluckj> lol 15:29 < faceface_> i mean scolarships 15:29 < cluckj> 5.5 hours isn't bad for an abstract 15:29 < faceface_> nah 15:30 < faceface_> I got mine started: 15:30 < bkero> If anyone wants to bring me to a conference just let me know. ;) 15:30 < bkero> I can act intelligent and mysterious -- a real asset to your cause. 15:30 < faceface_> http://humangenomerights.org/index.php/User:Dan_Bolser 15:30 < fenn> "A new form of insurance, genetic insurance, can eliminate these problems and allow everyone to be insured." 15:30 < faceface_> bkero: noted 15:30 < bkero> also: I'm poor 15:31 < faceface_> fenn: where did you read that? 15:31 < fenn> interesting idea.. if you don't know your genetics, play the gene lottery! 15:31 < faceface_> heh 15:31 < fenn> if you've got bad genes, you win 15:31 < faceface_> thats life 15:31 < fenn> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V8K-45DMNXW-G&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F31%2F1994&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1374343753&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=748c2502eda1c3d4d512348b168d84af 15:31 < faceface_> sounds lunatic 15:31 < fenn> i'm just googling for "economics genetic testing" 15:32 < fenn> WHO has some bullshit policy document with zero explanation of the rational basis for it 15:32 -!- genehacker [~notanemai@cpe-66-68-104-134.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:32 < cluckj> faceface_: http://www.sts.rpi.edu/pl/faculty/michael-fortun check out some of those after you have the abstract submitted 15:32 < faceface_> fenn: sounds right 15:33 < faceface_> 'gene watch uk' is a luddite movement with a similar agenda 15:33 < faceface_> cluckj: ty 15:33 < cluckj> yup 15:34 < cluckj> if you have questions, let me know 15:34 < cluckj> he's my advisor 15:34 < faceface_> ic 15:34 < fenn> ugh. 'in June 2008, California's Department of Public Health sent letters to 13 genetic testing companies, informing them that they were "in violation of California law... which prohibits the offering of a clinical laboratory test directly to the consumer without a physician order"' 15:35 < fenn> i wish the abortion clinic bombers would go up the food chain a bit 15:35 < bkero> Solution: fuck California. 15:36 < faceface_> fenn: how do you mean? 15:36 < fenn> people who make the sort of awful policies that led to the pfizer-state we now live in 15:36 < faceface_> so the bombers should do away with the legislation? 15:36 < faceface_> (in this case) 15:36 < fenn> it's not legislation 15:37 < fenn> it's "the department of public health" which just does whatever it wants 15:37 < faceface_> I'm just trying to work out if that is what you meant 15:38 < fenn> i mean.. anybody who wants to test themselves for possible genetic diseases ought to be able to do it without any fucking doctor getting in their way. if some bureaucrat decides it's in his economic best interest to hurt me (statistically, on average), then fuck them, they should get blown up 15:39 < faceface_> right 15:39 < faceface_> well.. I'm not building bombs... but I know what you mean 15:40 < faceface_> how about tweeking your genes? 15:40 < faceface_> ;-) 15:40 < faceface_> I bet you'll laugh when they make that illegal 15:40 < fenn> i very much disagree with this road modern nations like the US are headed down, where we distribute blame so much that policy becomes like "god's will", unexplainable and nothing you can do about it 15:40 < faceface_> fenn: right 15:40 < cluckj> ehh, I don't know if it's that simple :P 15:40 < faceface_> there is a system of school inspection here in the UK 15:41 < faceface_> and it turns out that the inspectors are doing a half-assed job 15:41 < faceface_> so what next? 15:41 < faceface_> inspecton inspectors? 15:41 < fenn> something bad happened. everybody did their job. nobody's fault. nothing gets fixed. 15:41 < cluckj> one of my things is looking at what policy does out in the world, and how it gets made 15:41 < faceface_> just teach because you love to teach damit! 15:41 < fenn> well, now teachers aren't allowed to teach how they want, they must follow standardized teaching practices 15:42 < fenn> and students have no choice in the matter either 15:42 < fenn> nobody has any choice 15:42 < faceface_> amen 15:42 < cluckj> lol 15:42 < cluckj> college professors can teach whatever they want :) 15:42 < faceface_> some dude wouldn't sell me a sandwich because the electricity was down... I had the right money... 15:43 < faceface_> so this is the end of society then is it? your till is bust? 15:43 < faceface_> ;-) 15:43 < fenn> college professor have been meticulously selected by 20 years of filtering processes to be the sort of people that end up perpetuating the stale university system 15:43 < cluckj> haha 15:43 < cluckj> thanks 15:43 * faceface_ goes back to half-assed research ;-) 15:43 < faceface_> l8r 15:44 < fenn> so cluckj what do you propose to do about this unfortunate situation? 15:44 < cluckj> become a college professor, fuck the system up 15:44 -!- Noahj [~noah@c-24-62-35-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:45 < fenn> are you aware this has been tried before? 15:45 < cluckj> yes, there are lots of professors like that now 15:45 < fenn> i think to make any difference we have to impact their bottom line, the massive amounts of money flowing into the system 15:46 < cluckj> oh? 15:46 < fenn> 50% of grants go to university "administration" 15:46 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:46 < fenn> this in addition to the $50k/year or whatever that students pay, either out of pocket or via government grants 15:46 < fenn> er, s/grants/scholarships/ 15:47 < fenn> i can't figure out where all this money is going 15:47 < cluckj> neither can I 15:47 < fenn> it's a massive amount of cash, almost as much as the defense budget 15:47 < fenn> sth like 200 billion/year 15:47 < cluckj> well 15:47 < cluckj> I know exactly where it's going 15:47 < cluckj> in the case of my university 15:47 < cluckj> $1 million president's salary, new buildings, sidewalks, etc. 15:48 < fenn> oops, sorry, 1 trillion annually, according to usgovernmentspending.com 15:48 < cluckj> I did get a raise this year 15:50 < fenn> cluckj: how much do you make now? more than $100k/year? 15:50 < cluckj> LOL 15:50 < cluckj> hahahahhahhahahahahhaha 15:50 < cluckj> dude I'm a PhD student 15:51 < cluckj> I make under $20k a year being a teaching assistant 15:51 < fenn> consider this: "For 2009-10, the average yearly college tuition in the United States was $26273" 15:51 < cluckj> that doesn't surprise me at all 15:51 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:51 < cluckj> I give my students their money's worth 15:51 < fenn> next time you go outside on a nice day, look at all the undergrats, just look at them 15:51 < fenn> see how many there are 15:52 < cluckj> :) 15:52 < cluckj> there are 5000 of them 15:52 < fenn> so, at least $230m/year for your school, in tuition alone 15:53 < cluckj> plus 3000 graduate students 15:53 < fenn> how much does your lab get in grants? $500k/yr? how many labs in the building? 15:53 < cluckj> all bringing in the same amount 15:53 < cluckj> I don't work in a lab :P 15:53 < cluckj> I don't know how much the labs make 15:53 < fenn> well, whatever unit of administrative accountability 15:53 < cluckj> but they spend it all 15:53 < fenn> no, they fork over 50% of it to the "administration" 15:54 < fenn> it's a huge scam, and i'm amazed at how nobody even notices 15:55 < cluckj> I don't think it's that much for my field 15:55 < cluckj> if I had a grant, they would take 0% from me 15:55 < cluckj> it's probably different in the other sciences, though 15:57 < cluckj> laboratory space and utilities cost a lot of money...so I can see them skimming a bit off the top there 15:57 < cluckj> but not 50% 16:01 -!- Alystair [Alystair@bas1-toronto10-1279558942.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05 < uniqanomaly> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzLPCMAA6wQ&NR=1 YEAH 16:06 -!- ismarc [~ismarc@75-13-88-188.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:15 < faceface_> genetic insurance... I like it 16:15 < faceface_> I want to introduce 'prison insurance' for the genetically predisposed to violence 16:15 < faceface_> 'get out of jail free' 16:16 < cluckj> lol 16:17 < cluckj> "genetic predisposition" to any behavior is a dubious claim 16:27 < kanzure> cluckj: the real reason for no philosophy is that we don't want to handhold you through your philosophical development.. i don't have time for that 16:31 < kanzure> cluckj: it really is 50%; universities apply a blanket policy like this (independent of field) 16:32 < kanzure> faceface_: you know about http://diygenomics.org/ right? 16:35 < faceface_> http://www.amazon.com/Genetic-Diseases-Monographs-Medical-Genetics/dp/0195125827 16:35 < faceface_> kanzure: no 16:36 < kanzure> okay, well, it's exactly what it sounds like :P 16:36 * faceface_ looks 16:36 < faceface_> cluckj: seen the genetic predisposition to financial risk taking paper I posted? 16:36 < kanzure> faceface_: can you link to the conference proceedings website? 16:36 < faceface_> what about the 'genetic predisposition to cystic fibrosis'... not that dubious 16:36 < kanzure> is this it? http://meetings.cshl.edu/abstractsub/abstractsub.aspx 16:37 < faceface_> no, one moment 16:37 < faceface_> http://meetings.cshl.edu/meetings/person10.shtml 16:37 < faceface_> nice site 16:37 < kanzure> does it cost $800 to speak at the conference? 16:37 < faceface_> no 16:38 < faceface_> invited speakers have been selected 16:38 < faceface_> conference attendees are being invited to submit talks, but they will pay full wack 16:38 < faceface_> 'yough scientists' are encouraged to enquire for scolarships 16:38 < kanzure> haha that's retarded 16:38 < faceface_> (expected to be submitting an abstract) 16:39 < kanzure> for that price, they should sequence your genome 16:39 < faceface_> kanzure: if you're near I'd suggest crashing it 16:39 < faceface_> lol 16:39 < faceface_> 100% 16:39 < faceface_> perhaps that is included? 16:39 < faceface_> we should definately organize a sequencing jamboree 16:40 < faceface_> turn up and demand a slot on the programme 16:41 < faceface_> I think we should start versioning the human genome 16:41 < kanzure> anyway, my point is that a presentation on DIYgenomics.org and related topics would be neat. 16:41 < faceface_> get it in git 16:41 < faceface_> true 16:41 < faceface_> will you write an abstract? 16:41 < kanzure> so maybe you should consider an abstract about that 16:41 < kanzure> wait, i thought you were writing an abstract 16:41 < kanzure> and we were helping you? 16:41 < faceface_> I am, but I'm 90% done 16:41 < kanzure> i see 16:41 < kanzure> well, i can afford to go, but i don't know if i want to 16:41 < faceface_> thanks for teh kaggle link btw 16:41 < kanzure> imho $800+ is really lame 16:42 < faceface_> kanzure: right, if they don't give me a scolarship, I'm not going 16:43 < kanzure> you should consider going to http://opensciencesummit.com/ instead 16:44 < faceface_> cheaper? ;-) 16:47 < kanzure> yes 16:50 < faceface_> did you know that bees have genetically different populations of mitochondria in their muscles than in the rest of their body? 16:54 < cluckj> cystic fibrosis isn't a behavior 16:54 < cluckj> kanzure would you cite that? D: 16:55 < kanzure> http://www.wauland.de/english.html ccc was founded in 1981? huh 16:55 < cluckj> I'm not disagreeing, but I'd like to be able to throw it in the face of administrators >:) 16:56 < kanzure> cluckj: i was looking for the policy on utexas.edu and then for some reason started to read about european endowments for dead men 16:56 * kanzure goes back to the hunt 16:56 < kanzure> also i was scratching my head over http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flibanserin the text for the "mechanism of action" is really vague and probably horseshit ("it has to RESTORE the balance" is the first clue that it's bullshit) 17:01 < cluckj> lol 17:03 < cluckj> "However, some have recently proposed that Female Sexual Dysfunction is merely a case of Disease Mongering and a marketing trick to create a market for sex drugs for women and to medicalize women's sexuality." 17:03 < cluckj> ahahaha 17:03 < cluckj> sounds about right 17:04 < kanzure> i don't think this was it: 17:04 < kanzure> http://www.utexas.edu/research/osp/osp_handbook.html#idc 17:04 < kanzure> but it's close 17:06 < cluckj> 09/01/08 - 08/31/10 52.0 On Campus Research 17:06 < cluckj> holy crap 17:06 < kanzure> oh here we go 17:06 < kanzure> http://www.utexas.edu/research/osp/indirect_costs.html 17:06 < kanzure> yeah 17:06 < cluckj> that's pretty problematic 17:06 < kanzure> it's also standard/typical 17:07 < kanzure> http://www.washington.edu/research/main.php?page=indirectCosts 17:07 < kanzure> interesting how this is standardized across universities under the same name 17:07 < cluckj> I'm looking up RPI's costs stuff 17:07 < cluckj> hehe 17:07 < kanzure> "indirect costs" 17:07 < cluckj> yes 17:08 < cluckj> "protection money" 17:08 < kanzure> and "facilities and administrative cost" 17:08 < kanzure> washington.edu is 55% 17:08 < cluckj> facilities and administration costs a lot 17:08 < kanzure> hot damn this is a cash cow 17:08 < cluckj> but 50%, seriously? 17:10 < cluckj> http://admissions.rpi.edu/dept/finop/controller/rfa/rates.html 17:10 < cluckj> sweet. 17:11 < cluckj> that was for 2004... 17:11 < cluckj> but I can't imagine it's changed 17:12 < kanzure> oh yay a primer on this bullshit: http://web.mit.edu/fnl/volume/205/canizares.html 17:13 < kanzure> http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/circulars/a021/a021.html 17:13 < kanzure> http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/rewrite/circulars/a021/a021.html 17:13 < cluckj> Computed retroactively for MIT FY2007, the actual F&A rate was 71.1%. 17:13 * cluckj barfs 17:13 < cluckj> bbl 17:21 < faceface_> cluckj: autism? 17:21 < faceface_> thats a behaviour isn't it? 17:21 < faceface_> ppls objection to genetic propensities is partly vestigial 17:22 < faceface_> imho 17:23 < kanzure> http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2010/06/introducing-google-command-line-tool.html 17:27 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-80-138.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:31 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-81-3.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:31 < kanzure> essays on peer review http://garfield.library.upenn.edu/peerreview.html by Eugene Garfield (one of the founders of The Scientist in 1986) 17:36 < faceface_> kanzure: out of interest do you use gmail? 17:38 < kanzure> yes 17:38 < faceface_> do you use nested lables? 17:38 < faceface_> the lab 17:41 < kanzure> no, haven't heard of that one 17:47 < faceface_> it's kind of buggy, and everyone has been in the forum discussing bugs, but google are nowhre 17:47 < faceface_> nowhere 17:47 < faceface_> just gripeing is all 18:47 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-71-232-51-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 18:49 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:11 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:14 -!- faceface_ [~dmb@cpc6-dund12-0-0-cust234.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:17 -!- faceface_ [~dmb@cpc6-dund12-0-0-cust234.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:17 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:17 < faceface_> cluckj: just read that link... interesting 19:18 < faceface_> can you get me PDF's of some of those articles? 19:18 < faceface_> ever played with a decode me account? 19:19 < faceface_> I'll lurk 19:19 < faceface_> night++ 19:19 -!- faceface_ [~dmb@cpc6-dund12-0-0-cust234.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:16 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:16 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has left #hplusroadmap [] 20:37 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:40 -!- Alystair [Alystair@bas1-toronto10-1279558942.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:31 < kanzure> what's an ieee "statement of assurance"? 21:45 -!- lepton [~john@156.sub-75-231-147.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:46 -!- lepton [~john@148.sub-75-220-15.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:01 < kanzure> epic fail with ceo of sparkfun 22:01 < kanzure> http://elevenarms.com/lolz.tiff 22:03 < QuantumG> tiff, seriously? 22:16 < cluckj> faceface yes, let me know what you want 22:19 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:20 < cluckj> faceface yes autism is a set of behaviors, I guess, but genetic? dunno, maybe 22:20 < cluckj> I'm not saying that there isn't a genetic component to behavioral disorders or diseases, but that setting up some causality is dubious 22:21 < cluckj> and most of the time if you say "genetic predisposition" to a non-expert audience, it ends up setting up some kind of causality in their minds 22:21 < cluckj> which is not good 22:21 < cluckj> just a load of genetic determinism 22:21 < cluckj> I've also played with a decodeme account :P 22:22 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone. 22:22 < cluckj> hello 22:24 < JayDugger> fenn, AJollyLife: AI, nanotech, intelligence enhancement, space colonies--these won't "save the world." Better tools permit a better class of mistake. 22:25 < JayDugger> Would you rather hit your thumb with a hammer, or put a metal spike through your hand with a nail gun? 22:25 < JayDugger> Off-world colonies expand our local biology's range of possible habitats. 22:26 < JayDugger> That's back-ups, not saving the world. 22:27 < JayDugger> cluckj: have you heard anything about the respone of decodeme, 23andme, and others to the FDA? 22:31 -!- memenode [~memenode@unit.memenode.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:34 < cluckj> JayDugger, no, not yet, have you? 22:34 < kanzure> hi memenode 22:34 < JayDugger> cluckj: No, and I worry a little that I wasted good money on the 23andMe test. 22:34 < memenode> hi 22:34 < JayDugger> Good morning, memnode. 22:35 < JayDugger> memenode, rather. 22:35 < memenode> Good morning :) 22:35 < memenode> eh morning... I didn't even go to sleep yet :D 22:36 < kanzure> sleep is for the meak 22:36 < kanzure> *weak 22:36 < cluckj> JayDugger I don't know how the FDA decision will hit tests that have been submitted already 22:36 < JayDugger> Yes, yes--`sudo skdb make-me -a modafinil` 22:38 < kanzure> only one? 22:38 < JayDugger> You can always take more; you can't very well take less. 22:38 < kanzure> no, i meant on the production 22:38 < kanzure> making only one versus in batches 22:38 < JayDugger> Waste not, want not. 22:39 < JayDugger> (I'll stop talking in aphorisms once I finish coffee cup #2.) 22:47 < kanzure> http://www.slideshare.net/AntonyWilliams/mobilizing-chemistry-chemistry-in-our-hands apps for chemistry on smartphones and other crap 22:48 < kanzure> http://www.chemaxon.com/library/user-presentations/the-mobile-kinome%C2%A0/ 22:48 < JayDugger> Cute logo. 22:48 < kanzure> http://www.chemaxon.com/library/ugm-presentations/2010-europe/ 22:50 < JayDugger> And a hefty dose of iPad kool-aid. 22:56 < kanzure> faceface: btw, russell hanson's email address is: russellhanson@gmail.com 23:02 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:17 < QuantumG> get that email kanzure ;) 23:19 -!- lepton [~john@148.sub-75-220-15.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:20 -!- lepton [~john@252.sub-70-201-217.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:40 < kanzure> QuantumG: you know i'm working with him on like, all his projects, right? 23:41 < kanzure> sorry for the short email. i was on the phone, and then realzed that it would make more sense in here 23:43 < QuantumG> yeah, I figured you would be.. I was more suggesting that you might appreciate the tone 23:44 -!- TigerRage [~Tiger@ip68-11-187-208.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56 < kanzure> oh 23:57 < kanzure> you mean the "please do this because i'm lazy" thing? 23:57 < kanzure> hm since when am i a member of humanityplus.org? wtf