--- Day changed Wed Jun 30 2010
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01:37 < ybit> drazak: couldn't hurt
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02:41 < jrayhawk> Hulu's new paid service is called "plus" and the iconography of it is h+
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08:40 < klafka> http://io9.com/5574826/programmable-sheet-can-fold-itself-into-origami-robot
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09:51  * fenn wonders how it is that microsoft is the biggest donor to the hacker dojo
10:01 < pmetzger> why wouldn't they give money to a good cause for PR?
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10:13 < genehacker> kanzure you there?
10:13 < genehacker> I might be able to see your presentation
10:14 < genehacker> you're in the at&t building right?
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10:24 < genehacker> actually it looks like I won't be able to make it
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13:07 < kanzure> that went well.
13:08 < klafka> oh yeah?
13:08 < kanzure> these enthought.com/scipy people are intense
13:08 < kanzure> klafka: just got back from my scipy2010 talk on pythonocc
13:08 < klafka> tell them to fix the scipy.weave bug with osx 10.6
13:08 < kanzure> i already left
13:08 < klafka> damn
13:08 < klafka> well you live right there, go back!
13:08 < klafka> :P
13:08 < kanzure> :P
13:09 < klafka> how were they intense?
13:09 < kanzure> to enter you had to have compiled mozilla from scratch at least once
13:10 < kanzure> http://conference.scipy.org/scipy2010/
13:11 < klafka> wait what?
13:12 < kanzure> hm, looks like http://hpluscommunity.com is back up
13:12 < kanzure> wait, no
13:12 < kanzure> not back up
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13:26 < lepton> congrats on your talk, kanzure!
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13:48 < kanzure> slides: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/presentations/scipy2010/pythonOCC.pdf (meh)
13:50 < kanzure> i could have amped up the technical stuff significantly
13:51 < kanzure> i walked (very late) and one of the presenters was going on about this 11-dimensional bezier surface representation for a libsvm-implemented object recognition system that goes from opencv to his robotic arm controller in under 300ms flat..
13:52 < kanzure> *walked in
13:55 < kanzure> so yeah.. the enthought guys are pretty badass.
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13:58 < kanzure> lolwut? "Bryan Bishop will speak on "Downloadable Hardware."  He is a pioneer of open manufacturing, do-it-yourself biohacking and DIY transhumanism."
14:03 < kanzure> "Yes, H+ was heading down a path that didn't quite seem right, so I stepped down b/c I didn't have enough time to make sure things got back on the right track.  You should run for a position if you have time.
14:03 < kanzure> bleh.. maybe.
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14:34 < kanzure> printcrime: http://craphound.com/000573.html#more
14:34 < kanzure> a story by cory doctorow
14:36 < genehacker> speaking of printers
14:36 < genehacker> 3d printers suck
14:36 < genehacker> they just suck
14:37 < genehacker> it's really hard to get consistent results on them, and they have to be constantly tuned
14:38 < kanzure> "o   Michael Vassar, President, Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence, Organizer of Singularity Summit, Founder and Chief Strategist at SirGroovy.com, an online music licensing firm"
14:38 < kanzure> aha
14:38 < kanzure> so his day job is pure evil
14:39 < genehacker> right now the awesome printers I'm working with are spitting out parts that are as strong as eggshells
14:39 < pmetzger> mmm... eggshells.
14:39 < pmetzger> back later.
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14:40 < uniqanomaly> genehacker, it's just beginning ;P
14:40 < genehacker> yeah it is
14:40 < genehacker> and that's the point
14:44 < genehacker> 3d printer makers need to make printers designed for making real parts
14:46 < uniqanomaly> what we really really need is  AGI :F
14:49 < genehacker> AGI?
14:49 < uniqanomaly> artificial general intelligence
14:49 < genehacker> why?
14:49 < uniqanomaly> ultimate thinking machine :P
14:50 < lepton> genehacker: what 3d printer machine are you using?
14:50 < uniqanomaly> just compare any number of humans to something what is possibly so much more 
14:50 < genehacker> yeah we need it, but surely not for a thing like optimizing build parameters and consistency of prints for a 3d printer
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14:51 < genehacker> an SLS one
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14:51 < lepton> a commerical machine?
14:51 < genehacker> a commercial machine
14:53 < genehacker> that was advertized to make consistent parts...
14:53 < lepton> Yeah, they all are
14:54 < lepton> We had a lot of good results (strength wise) with a straysis (sp?) FDM machine
14:54 < lepton> and have a BFB3000 coming here in a few weeks (it's more reprap style, but with a *hopefully* much better head)
14:54 < genehacker> what did you build?
14:55 < lepton> sensor housings for a company I used to work for
14:55 < lepton> Held some PCBs, optics, cabling
14:55 < lepton> It was strong enough to get tossed around, drop on the floor from a desk, etc, without issues
14:55 < genehacker> we're building something that needs prints to be very consistent
14:55 < genehacker> very consistent or people will die
14:56 < lepton> If you've got money for outsourcing, there are some good companies out there
14:56 < lepton> Protogenic I've worked with before
14:56 < lepton> They've got a lot of different capabilities (SLA, FDM, yadda yadda yadda)
14:57 < genehacker> we've got all of them and more
14:57 < lepton> Have you thought about doing molding? i.e. machine an aluminum bold and do a hand or hydraulic driven injection molding
14:57 < lepton> You can get it going for pretty cheap, less than $1k or so
14:57 < lepton> You can pour epoxy parts for even cheaper
14:58 < genehacker> we can 3d print superconductors or micro- nanometer scale chess pieces if we wanted too
14:58 < genehacker> these parts we're making are impossible
14:58 < lepton> What is it?
15:00 < genehacker> something I am probably not allowed to divulge
15:00 < lepton> Yeah, I figured ;P
15:01 < genehacker> it's not a state secret or anything that cool, but I probably shouldn't divulge it
15:01 < lepton> I understand, I do consulting for various companies that I can't talk about either
15:01 < lepton> Though I strongly prefer to be doing open source stuff
15:02 < lepton> I like to blabber on freely
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15:09 < genehacker> actually it is pretty cool if it works out
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15:22 < fenn> looks like quite the conference.. 15 minute talks are good
15:22 < fenn> going back tomorrow?
15:23 < kanzure> haven't decided, i need some recharge time from today
15:23 < kanzure> (i am doing a third presentation in a few minutes for singularity studies at rutgers)
15:23 < fenn> at scipy?
15:23 < kanzure> what?
15:23 < fenn> is this a lightning talk thing
15:23 < kanzure> no, i'm at home
15:23 < kanzure> singularity studies is a rutgers class
15:24 < kanzure> and i'm teaching it tonight
15:24 < fenn> it's an online class? or you're at rutgers (isnt that in massachussets?)
15:24 < kanzure> it's an online class
15:24 < kanzure> i'm having some trouble at the moment, actually..
15:24 < kanzure> last week i was able to log into the class
15:24 < kanzure> it required some crafty hacking
15:24 < kanzure> basically it's a java web start app in a .jnlp file
15:24 < kanzure> and i got it to work perfectly well
15:24 < kanzure> however, ellluminate has updated their software (i think)
15:25 < kanzure> they should really, really NOT update their software in the middle of a course / summer
15:25 < kanzure> so now it doesn't work with opendk
15:25 < kanzure> openjdk
15:25 < kanzure> so i've apt-get install sun-java-bin ... but uh, where are the binaries? O_o
15:25 < kanzure> i guess there's: apt-file list sun-java-bin
15:25 < kanzure> sun-java6-bin
15:28 < kanzure> wahoo
15:28 < kanzure> /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-sun/bin/javaws starts it without a hitch.
15:31 < genehacker> what are you teaching at singularity university?
15:31 < jcluck> rutgers is in new jersey
15:31 < jcluck> (ew)
15:31 < kanzure> genehacker: something about "Bryan Bishop will speak on "Downloadable Hardware."  He is a pioneer of open manufacturing, do-it-yourself biohacking and DIY transhumanism."
15:32 < kanzure> i dunno what 'downloadable hardware' is, but it sounds hawt
15:32 < genehacker> stuff posted on thingiverse?
15:32 < QuantumG> "Changing your opinion on something once someone else is paying the bills 101."  :)
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15:50 < kanzure> there's been this snail paying visits to my apartment lately
15:51 < kanzure> and i've been playing around with it- like putting it down on the ground when it's trying to climb up a wall (wtf)
15:51 < kanzure> but today i stepped on it while going outside :(
15:51 < kanzure> not a very robust exoskeleton
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16:00 < fenn> just dont step on the cat mkay?
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16:10 < genehacker>  perhaps you can clone it
16:10 < genehacker> also I wonder if it's possible to make snails that extrude GFP slime
16:11 < genehacker> also snails instinctively climb up stuff for some reason I can't remember
16:15 < fenn> i cant figure out what made these people "spies" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10459664.stm
16:15 < kanzure> russian citizenship and non-usa-citizenship?
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16:18 < QuantumG> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/r/russian_spy_ring_2010/index.html  plenty of articles around explaining what they were doing
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16:26 < ybit> kanzure: you wouldn't happen to have darlene cavalier's phone number would you?
16:26 < ybit> she apparently wanted to talk on the phone, but i haven't heard from her 
16:26 < ybit> oh, there she is, nevermind
16:32 < fenn> http://gawker.com/5575882/the-facebook-adventures-of-accused-russian-spy-mikhail-semenko  here he is at a james bond themed party
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16:33 < fenn> this guy must have a bacon/erdos number of like 3; apparently lots of people i know know him
16:37 < QuantumG> they seemed to subscribe pretty heavily to the soft target philosophy
16:38 < fenn> ah here we go, actual deeds http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Arlington-cash-drop-leads-to-arrest-of-alleged-Russian-spy-97432739.html
16:43 < fenn> http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100630spy_suspect_linked_to_futurist_group/
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16:50 < fenn> http://web.archive.org/web/20080528075127/http://lifeboat.com/ex/bios.don.heathfield
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16:51 < fenn> SPIES everywhere you look
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16:56 < QuantumG> they're in your futurist group.. spying on your post-human masturbation 
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17:06 < bdesk> kanzure: are your scipy talks youtubed?
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17:19 < fenn> i am sort of surprised by the number of russians i've met lately.. </idle musing>
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17:28 < ybit> i got off the phone with darlene, she makes a distinction in citizen science and diybio
17:30 < ybit> citizen science to her is simple data collecting or getting involved with nature projects such as monitoring fire flys whereas, to her, diybio is more technical and is for a different crowd
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18:18 < fenn> i think there's a distinction between 'random data collection' 'experimentation' and 'engineering'
18:19 < fenn> man i really out-convenienced myself with this database crap
18:19 < fenn> now i get to point and click like a million times instead of search and replace in a text file
18:19 < JayDugger> What do you mean "out-convenienced" and "database crap?"
18:20 < fenn> and i can't just upload some yaml or whatever because i dont have access to the super duper secure database server, which is just storing these stupid reports
18:20 < fenn> maybe i can hack in a backdoor for myself to upload yaml
18:25 < JayDugger> You mean, "I find this database's user interface very inconvenient?"
18:39 < fenn> yeah, the one i just wrote, and can't change :(
18:39 < JayDugger> That stinks out loud.
18:40 < bdesk> http://www.hplusmagazine.com/sites/default/files/images/ads/ad-omg-read-hplus.gif
18:40 < fenn> i bet they think i'm a spy because i keep asking for access to the database server
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18:40 < bdesk> whoever made this ad is genius
18:41 < QuantumG> nice
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18:51 < kanzure> bdesk: scipy talks were not recorded
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18:52 < kanzure> ybit: 'citizen science' (if you google for it) is a lot of nature watching and participating in blah@home BOINC projects.
18:52 < JayDugger> Not glamorous, but every little bit helps.
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19:13 < AJollyLife> bdesk: i love that ad :)
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20:14 < niftyzero> http://i.imgur.com/bFSLf.jpg
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20:32 < ybit> nice pic niftyzero :)
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20:43 < ybit> kanzure: i've never really thought about it, but i guess there is a distinction between citizen science and diy, one is more technically inclined while the other is just getting involved somehow in scientific work. both are important. perhaps the citizen science movement helps in maintaining a healthy scientific culture  for the non-technical people..
20:44 < ybit> ah, fenn, just saw your message. yeah, there's a diff
20:44 < jcluck> there is
20:44 < jcluck> ybit, what was the distinction she made?
20:44 < ybit> [13:22:30] <ybit> citizen science to her is simple data collecting or getting involved with nature projects such as monitoring fire flys whereas, to her, diybio is more technical and is for a different crowd
20:45 < ybit> just as kanzure mentioned too
20:45 < jcluck> ah
20:45 < jcluck> yeah I was talking to her at h+ about that
20:45 < jcluck> I think that the political comes out more in citizen science than it does in DIY Bio
20:46 < jcluck> citizen scientists are doing (whatever) for reasons that make them feel like they're part of a larger movement of social justice or something
20:46 < jcluck> DIY Bio does it more subtly and is definitely involved more in the technical aspects of building stuff
20:47 < ybit> which if this is the case, then the previous h+ summit theme isn't appropriate, since citizen science isn't quite as interesting as the diy movement
20:47 < jcluck> hehe
20:47 < jcluck> exactly
20:47 -!- jcluck is now known as cluckj
20:47 < cluckj> I think they're related, but different
20:48 < cluckj> citizen scientists are less technically savvy than diy bio-ers
20:48 < ybit> citizen science might be a nice way to ease people into the technical diy communities
20:48 < cluckj> yes
20:49 < cluckj> what I've found is that most of the people in DIY Bio have technical degrees or backgrounds
20:49 < ybit> yeah, her presentation mentioned a survey which stated this
20:49 < cluckj> a vast majority of them have some kind of college education
20:49 < cluckj> yep
20:50 < cluckj> I was talking to her about how the data I've collected shows the same kinds of things
20:50 < cluckj> and mac's diy bio survey showed it too
20:50 < ybit> cluckj: do you have linkage to the data you collected?
20:51 < cluckj> nope, it's not public yet
20:51 < cluckj> I should be submitting it for publication later this year
20:52 < ybit> oh, i know who you are now :-)
20:52 < cluckj> uh oh :o
20:52 < cluckj> haha
20:52 < ybit> :D
20:53 < ybit> i remember you mentioned this on the mailing list at some point
20:53 < ybit> or it was mentioned by somebody else
20:53 < cluckj> maybe
20:53 < ybit> i might be wrong though
20:54 < cluckj> most of my data is qualitative
20:54 < cluckj> it needs to be written out in a narrative to make any sense at all :)
20:57 < kanzure> http://www.codethinked.com/post/2007/12/06/The-Programmer-Dress-Code.aspx larry wall doesn't remind me of perl syntax
20:57 < cluckj> the only time I was taking down numbers was in number of people, genders, ages, and a rough number of educational statuses
20:59 < kanzure> i can't believe i just read what amounts to a "fashion article" on programmers
20:59 < kanzure> "this year penguincon we see ESR is sporting a new 5 o'clock shadow.."
21:00 < cluckj> hahaha
21:03 < cluckj> get any new fashion ideas from the article kanzure?
21:05 < kanzure> yeah, i'm considering taking a bat to my face and going freestyle
21:05 < kanzure> dunno though
21:05 < cluckj> word
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21:26 < fenn> alan cox wins awesomest beard award
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22:54 < fenn> any suggestions on adding arbitrary folksonomy tags to music files?
22:54 < fenn> said files are mostly in mp3 format (though I think AAC is theoretically superior)
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23:07  * fenn tries once again to figure out wtf nepomuk is
23:10 < fenn> hum. "nepomuk id3 ontology contributors: Evgeny 'phreedom' Egorochkin, KDE Strigi Developer, stexx@mail.ru"
23:11 < fenn> i havent seen him in a while
23:11 < fenn> !seen phreedom
23:11 < fenn> oh hi Phreedom_ 
23:12 < fenn> -_-
23:12 < fenn> stupid bot
23:12  * fenn kicks gnusha
23:14 < Phreedom_> ?
23:14 < fenn> ah fuck it, maybe i should just cluster things by fft intervals
23:15 < fenn> Phreedom_: i want to tag music 'dark' or 'ambient' or some such, know any tools to do that?
23:15 < Phreedom_> fenn: depends on what you are going to do with the tags afterwards
23:16 < Phreedom_> fenn: could as well use comment to store this
23:16 < Phreedom_> or nepomuk
23:16 < fenn> ideally i'd search in my music player, but they all suck
23:16 < Phreedom_> it all depends
23:16 < Phreedom_> fenn: then it's nepomuk+whatever happens to support it first
23:16 < Phreedom_> amarok planned some interop
23:16 < Phreedom_> or you can alreay use dolphin to search
23:16 < fenn> yeah i dont think it went anywhere
23:16 < fenn> dolphin searches id3 tags?
23:17 < Phreedom_> or there's a nicer search app coming in kde 4.6
23:17 < Phreedom_> or bangarang which uses nepomuk
23:17 < Phreedom_> fenn: dolphin searches whatever nepomuk has
23:17 < Phreedom_> which means id3 tags as well
23:18 < Phreedom_> "<fenn> yeah i dont think it went anywhere" <- what does this refer to?
23:18 < fenn> hmm i could tag a sample, cluster everything, then try to automatically guess at names for each cluster
23:18 < fenn> amarok <-> nepomuk integration
23:19 < Phreedom_> fenn: it's a dilemma of being either a kde or a standalone app
23:19 < Phreedom_> or rather being a standalone kde app :)
23:19 < fenn> http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/Development/Nepomuk
23:20 < fenn> not much there as you can see
23:20 < Phreedom_> fenn: I think bangarang is much further along in supporting nepomuk
23:20 < Phreedom_> fenn: actually it's based on it
23:20 < Phreedom_> already
23:21 < Phreedom_> but it's a much simpler player
23:21 < Phreedom_> one day amarok will wake up of course
23:21 < Phreedom_> I can't blame them for being slow tbh
23:21 < fenn> ok i will try out bangarang. never liked amarok anyway
23:21 < Phreedom_> fenn: but bangarang is sort of beta sw ;)
23:22 < Phreedom_> so you can expect rough edges
23:22 < Phreedom_> but then the same can be said about amarok :)
23:22 < fenn> yep
23:23 < Phreedom_> fenn: basically bangarang is free from legacy(including users who expect it to work :) ) and it's trying to use new stuff instead of trying to migrate old solutions
23:23 < fenn> my expectation of legacy compliance died with xmms
23:24 < Phreedom_> fenn: and asking devs of a project about their project is not the smartest thing cause devs always live in the fantasy land of "this will be fixed in a year" etc
23:24 < Phreedom_> *thing to do
23:25 < Alystair> "Re-engineering Streptococcus for longer lasting Teeth"
23:25 < Alystair> I need a more viral title
23:25 < fenn>  "Re-engineering Streptococcus for longer lasting Teeth, With Viruses (tm)"
23:26 < QuantumG> Brighter Whiter Teeth Through Genetic Engineering!
23:26 < fenn> except not really
23:26 < Alystair> ...
23:26 < Alystair> it's a bacteria...
23:26 < Alystair> unless the virus was used as a method of modifying the bacteria, which isn't the case.
23:26 < QuantumG> you're engineering the bacteria though right?
23:27 < Alystair> well not me, someone else who's work was buried :P
23:27 < Alystair> I'd kill to do it myself tho!
23:27 < fenn> the kgb raided his lab to cover up this groundbreaking technology
23:27 < fenn> spies everywhere
23:28 < Alystair> fenn actually it was the Florida College of Dentistry
23:28 < Alystair> but that's besides the point
23:28 < QuantumG> I'd figure they did it to stop the British from getting good teeth
23:28 < Alystair> this was done already back in 2002 with tests going on for 10 years
23:28 < QuantumG> part of the ongoing east west dental health cold war
23:28 < Alystair> only 3 people alive right now with the hacked mutans ;O
23:28 < QuantumG> the British are clearly losing
23:28 < fenn> i remember something a decade ago which bound to the same sites as streptococcus and so it wouldnt "stick"
23:29 < Alystair> it's not something you can get genetically passed down... the best option would be getting in touch with the test subjects and getting a swab to create your own culture :)
23:29 < Alystair> that could prove hard
23:29 < Alystair> ANYWAY
23:30 < fenn> what was "hacked" about it anyway?
23:34 < fenn> silly me expecting there to be a  package for nepomuk
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23:42 < Alystair> so, can I genetically modify stuff in my house yet?
23:42 < Alystair> I don't know anything about anything yet :P
23:49 < Phreedom_> fenn: nepomuk is packaged in all distros already
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23:56 < Alystair> conspiracy thickens
23:56 < Alystair> oh shit
23:57 < Alystair> I was right
23:57 < Alystair> I was about to send the paper's author an email and then I REALIZED SOMETHING EVIL
23:57 < Alystair> this s.mutans modification is permanent... I was joking about "doing a Monsanto" in my email to him (haven't sent it yet).. now I find out he's the CSO for a certain bio company
23:57 < fenn> but realizing things is so difficult and time consuming, i prefer to imagine things instead
23:58 < fenn> Alystair: how permanent could it be? can't you just nuke your mouth with antibiotics and reintroduce wild-type (if you had some reason to want that)
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