--- Log opened Tue Aug 10 00:00:17 2010
00:15 < kanzure> fenn: ON_MeshSurface just seems to be "evaluate the normal of the given surface, figure out a vector and a point, and then throw that into a MeshFace object" also with some weird north east / north west / south east / south west index counting going on?
00:16 < kanzure> "The meshing source code is not included with the free openNURBS toolkit."
00:19 < QuantumG> hehe
00:19 < QuantumG> so, here's another idea for ya, why don't you just calculate convex hulls
00:20 < QuantumG> there's some rendering tricks for intersecting them to get non-convex hulls
00:20 < QuantumG> and it's about the fastest b-rep you can make
00:24 < kanzure> hrm
00:24 < kanzure> http://www.opengl.org/sdk/docs/man/xhtml/gluNewNurbsRenderer.xml
00:25 < kanzure> better: http://glprogramming.com/red/chapter12.html
00:28 < QuantumG> that is nice
00:41 < kanzure> this really makes things a lot simpler.
00:43 < kanzure> http://groups.yahoo.com/humanityplusboard
00:47 < kanzure> "Finally, the order parameters, uorder and vorder, can be different, allowing patches that are cubic in one direction and quadratic in the other, for example."
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00:54 < kanzure> actually some of this might be a moot point.. in the STEP output that i'm generating i have things like SPHERICAL_SURFACE which, in the STEP definition, isn't anything but a name (i.e. it doesn't define a spherical surface in the definition)
00:54 < kanzure> "spherical is left as an exercise to the implementors" i guess?
00:58 < kanzure> fenn: check out this weirdness
00:58 < kanzure> http://www.steptools.com/support/stpship_docs/html/t_dimen-03.html
00:58 < kanzure> an example from part203.exp: metre           :         RETURN(dimensional_exponents(1,0,0,0,0,0,0));
00:58 < kanzure> siemens         :         RETURN(dimensional_exponents(-2,-1,3,2,0,0,0));
00:59 < kanzure> although radian and steradian are both RETURN(dimensional_exponents(0,0,0,0,0,0,0)); hm..
01:09 < kanzure> oh. sphere is like the only case where this happens apparently.
01:09 < kanzure> even brlcad has to deal with it
01:10 < kanzure> in brlcad-7.16.8/src/conv/step/BRLCADWrapper.cpp
01:11 < kanzure> BRLCADWrapper::WriteSphere(double *center, double radius) is basically just: mk_sph(outfp, "s1", center, 10.0) or in other words a call to "make sphere"
01:12 < kanzure> everything else goes through BRLCADWrapper::WriteBrep which takes an ON_Brep which i'm guessing is the same ON_Brep object from opennurbs
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01:28 < kanzure> why isn't a sphere just a curve on a sphere and then stretched around 360 degrees?
01:35 < kanzure> pyopengl samples for this stuff:
01:35 < kanzure> http://www.java2s.com/Open-Source/Python/Development/PyObjC/trunk/pyobjc/PyOpenGL-2.0.2.01/OpenGL/Demo/dek/texturesurf2.py.htm
01:35 < kanzure> http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net/documentation/manual/glMap2.3G.html (although svn.sf.net has been broken since forever i think)
01:36 < kanzure> heh had it on my hard drive all along.
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09:08 < splicer_> ...or Biopunk?
09:09 < splicer_> sorry... wrong window
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09:39 < AndroUser> Good morning, everyone.
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10:45 < kanzure> hi AndroUser
10:45 < kanzure> huh steve wozniak is on facebook and has a large mutual friend intersection with me
10:50 < bkero> The woz
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11:38 < kanzure> hrm
11:38 < kanzure> someone suggests adding a status to social networking websites for whether or not you have a communicable infection
11:38 < kanzure> and then educating people to avoid contact with others during those periods when they are planning meetups and stuff
11:39 < kanzure> the argument is that this would effectively cut off the virus from spreading
11:39 < kanzure> social isolation strategies like that could backfire i guess?
11:55 < splicer> maybe memebots should fall into the 'communicable infection' category.
12:19 < AJollyLife> anyone going to the singularity summit this weekend?
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12:23  * fenn shrugs
12:24 < fenn> you'd think there would be reviews of audio recording devices with actual maximum recording time
12:26 < fenn> i'm about ready to build my own.. how hard could it be?
12:27 < AJollyLife> why would you build your own?
12:27 < fenn> can fit a lotta wave files on 16GB
12:28 < fenn> because all this stuff is designed for some other use case (either hi fi music recording or executive business person notes to themself)
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12:29 < fenn> also they seem to use a huge amount of battery power (29 hours for 2 AAA batts is almost as bad as an incandescent flashlight)
12:30 < AJollyLife> whats your use case?
12:30 < fenn> recording everything constantly
12:30 < fenn> preferably timestamped correctly
12:30 < AJollyLife> id be a big fan of that use case
12:31 < fenn> somehow a video (and audio) recorder costs $1.50 from china?
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12:32 < AJollyLife> i'd love to just voice record everything around me, with a decent mike, and time stamp it nicely, that way i could go back and sync it with my photos
12:32 < fenn> that's the idea
12:34 < AJollyLife> i wonder if it would be easier to just write software for android to do it
12:34 < fenn> i dont have a phone
12:34 < AJollyLife> ah
12:34 < fenn> but yes i think it would
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12:35 < fenn> why is an mp3 codec IC $20
12:36 < AJollyLife> licensing?
12:36 < fenn> why is an ogg codec IC $20 then?
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12:42 < AJollyLife> no idea
12:43  * fenn grumbles about usb host mode on android phones
12:43 < kanzure> AJollyLife: i have some discount codes for the summit if you'd like.. but you're probably volunteering
12:44 < AJollyLife> kanzure: thanks, but yeah, im shooting the conference
12:44 < kanzure> righto
12:45 < fenn> kanzure what do you mean discount codes?
12:46 < kanzure> when you sign up you can type in a little code thingy to get a discount anywhere from bringing the price down a few dollars to basically free
12:46 < fenn> basically free sounds good
12:46  * kanzure nods
12:46 < kanzure> you want?
12:46 < fenn> yeah
12:47 < kanzure> see pm
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12:50 < fenn> huh "Your registration is a tax-deductible donation."
12:50 < fenn> doesnt that mean they can't give preferential treatment to people who havent paid?
12:51 < fenn> s/havent/have/ ig uess
12:51 < kanzure> what does "preferential treatment" mean?
12:51 < fenn> like, letting you be there or not
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13:04 < fenn> AJollyLife: did they mail you any tickets or anything?
13:05 < AJollyLife> fenn: just an e-mail confirmation
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13:06 < kanzure> your name is probably added to a list
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13:16 < jrayhawk> There are a few phones with host-mode USB.
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13:18 < bkero> Nexus One
13:18 < fenn> it it illegal to record your own phone calls?
13:18 < jrayhawk> http://sven.killig.de/android/N1/2.2/usb_host/ http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host etc
13:19 < kanzure> fenn: customer support does it all the time, right?
13:19 < jrayhawk> Depends on which U.S. state you're in, but yes, usually.
13:19 < kanzure> "i wire-tap on my own phone calls so i can listen to myself while i talk"
13:19 < fenn> "i wire tap my tap dancing shoes so i can tap while i tap"
13:19 < kanzure> "i might be monitoring our call so that i can more positively assist you in the future" hahah
13:20 < fenn> "this phone call may be recorded for digital avatar reconstruction purposes"
13:21 < jrayhawk> The n810 supports host mode USB out of the box.
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13:22 < kanzure> fenn: can you figure out any particular reason that the STEP standard defines a "spherical surface" without referencing breps or nurbs?
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13:23 < fenn> wow why are the n810 batteries so cheap
13:23 < fenn> 3.7V 1500mAh $2.29 shipped (can it be true?)
13:23 < jrayhawk> They're a common Nokia battery, as I recall.
13:23 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i don't remember but i think you're partial to n810 over n900 because you have an n810? or was there another reason
13:24 < kanzure> gee common batteries for multiple phones, what a concept.
13:25 < jrayhawk> I have both. The n810 was targeted as a professional tool and the n900 was targeted as a consumer vanity item.
13:25 < kanzure> huh.
13:25 < fenn> what's the actual difference?
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13:27 < jrayhawk> n810: larger, one more keyboard row, better protected by metal bits, supports host mode USB. n900: has cellular modem, a better supported 3D engine, composite out.
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13:29 < jrayhawk> The n810's hardware is also sufficiently well understood to shove whatever kernel you like on, while the n900 is crippled by a binary-only battery management system.
13:29 < jrayhawk> Supposedly that's being aggressively worked on as part of the Meego project, though.
13:30 < fenn> ug. somehow i just said "two more weeks"
13:30  * fenn cries
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13:31 < kanzure> "two more weeks" what?
13:31 < fenn> jrayhawk: can i get host USB _and_ composite out?
13:31 < fenn> kanzure: at omnivision
13:31 < fenn> doing ... nothing basically
13:31 < jrayhawk> If you're willing to take the hacky approach described in the second link at 13:18
13:32 < fenn> could you summarize?
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13:32 < fenn> is this like, "plug in a usb mini a cable while booting the phone"
13:32 < kanzure> jrayhawk: timestamps aren't shared in here
13:32 < jrayhawk> oh, right
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13:33 < fenn> oh i have timestamp, sorry i thought he was referring to a time in a video
13:33 < kanzure> oh hm
13:33 < kanzure> now he'll think there's some anti-sharing-timestamps-for-videos policy in here
13:33 < fenn> there is
13:34 < kanzure> there is?
13:34 < jrayhawk> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host I *think* it's "compile, install module, manually twiddle sysctls either before or after you plug in a USB thing to enable host or gadget mode"
13:34 < fenn> as part of the revolutionary user's front to release all websites
13:34 < jrayhawk> haha
13:34 < kanzure> you mean the shell user's revolutionary front against the web (surfraw)
13:34 < fenn> ahem, yes
13:34 < kanzure> oh it's revolutionary front RAGE against the web
13:34 < kanzure> even better.
13:35 < kanzure> http://surfraw.alioth.debian.org/
13:35 < fenn> i'm not so full of rage really
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13:35 < kanzure> ok how about quite revolution
13:35  * kanzure goes back to tinkering with code
13:35 < kanzure> quiet
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13:40 < jrayhawk> Oh yeah, the n810 also comes with a bitchin' mount, which enables you to do terribly irresponsible things like use IRC from your car or bike.
13:40 < AJollyLife> heh. thats why i need a hardware keyboard...so i can txt when driving
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13:43 < jrayhawk> I assume this was designed for use with the built-in GPS, but it's also pretty cool to have a portable touch-screen multimedia system you can bring with you.
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14:51 < alphydan> 22:56 *** Noahj JOIN
14:53 < kanzure> ?
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15:03 < kanzure> i don't know where to write this down but someone is suggesting that i turn meetlog.txt / 1kfriend.ly into a connection/contact brokering system and then use analysis and diagnostics to more effectively get return on the brokering actions
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15:07 < kanzure> "Sorry, I'm not sure I follow. You did this analysis by hand for 40k tags and 9000 people? I do not mean to seem incredulous, but it sounds like years worth of work."
15:07 < kanzure> [B[B[Bheh
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15:51 < kanzure> "sapolsky of stanford to develop a vaccine for stress"
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15:54 < fenn> "Thanks for registering for the 2010 Singularity Summit. This is your confirmation." derr, no magic numbers?
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16:03 < kanzure> they probably check a name or an id
16:04 < fenn> it will probably be somebody that knows me anyway
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16:08 < fenn> so change in plans for the wearable, these batts are cheap enough and energy dense enough that i'm just going to switch to them
16:08 < fenn> http://cgi.ebay.com/Nokia-BP-4L-Battery-BP4L-E63-E71-E90-E90i-E61i-N810-/330453200030?pt=PDA_Accessories
16:11 < fenn> hm only one sold so far
16:16 < fenn> so 5V - 0.8V diode drop shouldn't over charge a Li-po pack right?
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16:31 < fenn> huh, cpkb http://cpkb.org/wiki/Nokia_BP-4L_battery_pinout
16:31 < fenn> cell phone knowledge base
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16:34 < kanzure> how to make a sphere out of nurbs http://www.geometrictools.com/Documentation/NURBSCircleSphere.pdf
16:34 < kanzure> i'm really surprised the first result was exactly what i was looking for
16:39 < fenn> oh yeah, wild magic, forgot about that
16:39 < kanzure> i read the site but can't figure out what it does
16:39 < fenn> it's sorta like a game engine i guess
16:41 < kanzure> did you see http://glprogramming.com/red/chapter12.html from the backlog?
16:41 < fenn> no
16:41  * fenn looks
16:42 < fenn> bezier's aren't nurbs
16:42 < fenn> bezier's are cubic splines, nurbs are quintic
16:43 < fenn> (and for some reason this matters?)
16:44 < fenn> or i'm full of crap
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16:44 < kanzure> i'm inclined to trust this page
16:44 < kanzure> it's well written *and* it has example code
16:44 < fenn> i didnt know gl had a nurbs object
16:44 < fenn> glu*
16:44 < kanzure> me either :)
16:45 < kanzure> i ran into it while reading brlcad source code
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16:47 < fenn> all these different batteries... madness
16:47 < fenn> n900 uses a 60x38x5.5mm battery, n810 uses 66x44x5mm battery
16:47 < fenn> was it really worth the half a millimeter?
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17:19 < kanzure> fenn: i'm having some trouble with the workflow in that pdf file
17:19 < kanzure> presumably i have to evaluate some equation to come up with a set of control points for the nurbs 
17:19 < kanzure> are the bernstein polynomials the values of the control points?
17:37 < kanzure> "This representation is not unique, but one possibility appears below" what?
17:37 < kanzure> i think this article sucks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-uniform_rational_B-spline
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18:29 < kanzure> http://www.tc184-sc4.org/SC4_Open/SC4_Standards_Developers_Info/Files/STEP_application_handbook_63006.pdf
18:38 < kanzure> fenn: here's the entire STEP standard on the web
18:38 < kanzure> http://www.tc184-sc4.org/SC4_Open/SC4%20Legacy%20Products%20%282001-08%29/STEP_%2810303%29/
18:38 < kanzure> also, this is ridiculous
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18:40 < kanzure> meeting notes from some AP203 meeting: http://www.tc184-sc4.org/SC4_Open/SC4%20Legacy%20Products%20%282001-08%29/STEP_%2810303%29/Files/minutes.txt
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19:03 < fenn> i've seen that before, there's nothing useful there
19:04 < fenn> it's not "the standard"
19:05 < fenn>  so apparently nobody sells a voice recorder that isn't some stupid AAA battery thing with a big honkin speaker
19:06 < fenn> all i want for christmas: a stereo microphone jack, an sd card slot, a button to start/stop
19:06 < fenn> actually a switch would be better, good old fashioned mechanical switch
19:07  * fenn hunts for glucose
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20:42 < kanzure> "The real question is what would you want to accomplish by managing 10,000 conversations/threads/weak ties?"
20:42 < kanzure> world domination?
20:46 < kanzure> presumably it's the journey not the destination that matters
20:51 < kanzure> and since nobody has done 10k or 100k relationships before in any meaningful way i guess it's sort of unprecedented and there's no eral answer
20:52 < kanzure> *no real answer
21:02 < kanzure> i don't think i could even answer that if he used the number 5
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21:15 < kanzure> ben goertzel suggests http://www.amazon.com/Weak-Links-Universal-Stability-Collection/dp/3540311513
21:15 < kanzure> from that minutes.txt file: "There are still needs that remain unfulfilled such as: parametrics, 
21:16 < kanzure> solid model history, etc."
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21:29 < genehacker> solid model history?
21:32 < kanzure> STEP apparently doesn't do revision history or parametric stuff.
21:33 < fenn> if you want to make a circular hole bigger you're screwed
21:33 < kanzure> so i'm confused.. is there any /actual/ parametric CAD format that can be interchanged between CAD systems and kernels?
21:34 < kanzure> i know that solidworks saves parametric information..
21:35 < kanzure> but nothing reads .sldprt except solidworks
21:35 < kanzure> oh well. i'm still a little confused about how to convert from STEP to raw NURBS
21:38 < AJollyLife> fenn: if you do find a suitable voice recorder let me know
21:38 < genehacker> WHAT? I thought it did
21:39 < genehacker> also going to see a presentation tomorrow by the fab@home guys on their file format that is supposed to be better than g-code and .stl
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23:43 < kanzure> "Example 12-5 renders a NURBS surface in the shape of a symmetrical hill with control points ranging from -3.0 to 3.0. The basis function is a cubic B-spline, but the knot sequence is nonuniform, with a multiplicity of 4 at each endpoint, causing the basis function to behave like a Bezier curve in each direction."
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 11 00:00:17 2010