--- Log opened Tue Aug 17 00:00:17 2010 00:07 < bkero> ybit: hi 00:07 < bkero> I have a lot of logs 00:08 < bkero> july of this year? 00:17 < kanzure> logs got fucked up for a while when i had three gnushas 00:28 < ybit> bkero: yes 00:29 < ybit> jrayhawk's linkage seems to be just fine though 00:32 < jrayhawk> maybe we should uniq those triple-entry logs 00:35 < kanzure> oright 00:52 < kanzure> from tudor: http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlog/articles/20100814.aspx 00:53 < kanzure> "the bottomless cargo container" 00:53 < kanzure> "August 14, 2010: U.S. SOCOM (Special Operations Command) has adopted an old U.S. Army concept to create mobile workshops (MTCs or Mobile Technology Complex) that can fix exotic gear (which SOCOM has a lot of), modify their special gear, or even create something new. The MTC is a modified (with new some gear) version of the decade old U.S. Army MPH (Mobile Parts Hospital). " 00:54 < kanzure> "The key to making this work was the availability of computer controlled machine tools, which can take a block of the proper metal, and machine it into the desired part. The computer controlled machine tools have been around for decades, but the big breakthrough was the development of CAD (Computer Assisted Design) software for PCs in the 1980s, which made the process of designing, and then fabricating, a part much faster." 00:54 < kanzure> "The MPH has a high speed satellite data link, which enables it to obtain the CAD file for a part. Many CAD files are already stored in the MPH. Often, the MPH staff figure out a way to improve a part, based on the broken parts they see, and what the troops tell them." 00:54 < kanzure> "There are four MPH systems in service, two of them in Afghanistan. A fourth is being built, at a cost of $1.5 million. In the last six years, MPHs have manufactured over 100,000 parts, on the spot." 00:54 < kanzure> "This saves days, or weeks, that it would take to order the part from the manufacturer, and the MPH part is usually a lot cheaper (because the air freight and manufacturer mark ups to pay for maintaining the part in inventory). The next version of the MPH has a 3-D part builder, which uses metal dust and a laser to build a part." 00:54 < kanzure> "SOCOM is building eight of their MTCs and sending all of them to Afghanistan, to see how effective they will be at improving the readiness of equipment, and the usefulness of being able to modify existing gear, and build new stuff on the spot. " 01:04 < jrayhawk> I just cleaned 2010-07-27.log through 2010-08-02.log, leaving the old logs in badlogs/ 01:04 < kanzure> yay 01:04 < kanzure> thank you 01:17 < kanzure> sleep mode! 01:23 -!- streety [~Jonathan@host109-153-12-180.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:30 -!- streety [~Jonathan@host109-153-12-180.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:02 < bkero> ybit: http://staff.osuosl.org/~bkero/#hplusroadmap.log 02:03 < bkero> kanzure: I think that would be the only military job I would enjoy. 02:03 < bkero> Fabricating new parts all the time 02:16 -!- killall-9 [~paulc@diana.null.ro] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:00 -!- superkuh [hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:02 -!- superkuh [hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:09 < Utopiah> anybody participated to the ASIM workshop? 03:46 -!- SeH_2 [~SeH_2@c-24-3-194-51.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:01 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:19 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:29 < phryk> How do I survive the last three hours of work? 04:29 -!- clemux is now known as clemu 04:29 -!- clemu is now known as clemux 04:41 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:46 -!- Juul [~Juul@h55eb1609.dkkoost.sta.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:01 -!- superkuh [hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:37 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:15 -!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:15 -!- superkuh [hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:25 -!- streety [~s0678364@cpat002.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:28 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:36 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:36 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:48 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:58 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:20 < phryk> If I don't die within 10 minutes I survived another workday. 07:21 < Utopiah> you can do it! 07:25 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:25 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:31 < Utopiah> http://www.ge-ip.com/products/family/gpgpu 08:00 -!- patrik [~patrik@h126n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:01 -!- patrik is now known as Guest59897 08:01 -!- Guest59897 is now known as splicer 08:18 -!- SeH_2 [~SeH_2@c-24-3-194-51.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:18 -!- panax [panax@goldstandard.eng.usf.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:28 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:13 < kanzure> http://diybio.org/ looks different 09:35 < kanzure> alright todd! :) 09:35 < kanzure> "I know everyone on that CC list quite well, and they're good people." 09:35 < kanzure> "A few notes..." 09:36 < kanzure> "You do NOT want to get into the contracting negotiations by yourself. It is a soul-crushing process. Let them be the prime contractor. You should sub-contract at least one node below the Prime." 09:36 < kanzure> "Moving money takes about 10 times as long as you think it's going to take." 09:36 < kanzure> "I'd be happy to hop on the CC list as your advisor, and let you know if things are going in the wrong direction. I see those people fairly often, and am not afraid to yell at them for you." 09:36 < kanzure> "Make them do the heavy lifting on the application, you should stay focused on the technology. They know how to do the application and contracting components." 09:36 < kanzure> "You might have to fight a bit to maintain your intellectual property," 09:36 < kanzure> "but it's doable. I've negotiated with this group before, and can help." 09:44 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 09:55 < kanzure> fenn: dave and i want to do a phone call with todd 09:56 < kanzure> you want in? i'll probably do a transcript anyway so it's not like you'd miss anything 10:09 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:09 < Utopiah> http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/08/ray_kurzweil_does_not_understa.php (via archels) 10:10 < kanzure> is this about the whole "genome explains the brain" crap? 10:10 < Utopiah> yep 10:18 < kanzure> "Kurzweil does not believe technological progress happens in leaps and bounds. He believes technological progress zooms down a wormhole and comes out in a different universe." 10:20 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has quit [Quit: mheld] 10:36 -!- streety [~s0678364@cpat002.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:40 < kristianpaul> The owner of this group has banned you from this group. 10:40 < kristianpaul> waht? 10:40 < kanzure> kristianpaul: which group? 10:40 < kristianpaul> open source manufacturing 10:40 < kanzure> really 10:40 < kanzure> uh 10:40 < kanzure> let me fix that 10:40 < kristianpaul> :( 10:40 < kristianpaul> thanks ! 10:41 < kanzure> what is your email address? 10:41 < kanzure> paul@ 10:42 < kristianpaul> yup 10:42 < kanzure> k 10:42 < kanzure> fixed.. but you might have to rejoin the group http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing 10:42 < kanzure> no idea how that happened 10:42 < kristianpaul> :/ 10:42 < kristianpaul> ok np 10:43 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:44 < fenn> no i hate phone calls.. btw what time is it in afghanistan? :P 10:44 < kanzure> 10:14pm 10:45 < fenn> CC list == email carbon copy ? 10:45 < kanzure> fenn: you don't even like listening in? 10:45 < kanzure> yes 10:46 < kanzure> so, dave hasn't done DARPA before, but he thinks that whatever i do it should be a small team 10:46 < kanzure> todd is suggesting i do sub-contracting for this other group (that jonathan kuniholm brought to my attention) 10:47 < kanzure> another option is to partner with matt campbell or some other university peeps (like via joe rayhawk and his pdx.edu guys) 10:47 < kanzure> so i'm really not sure what to do. the more people you add on to the project, the more you end up arguing about XML versus some shit like unicode 10:47 < kanzure> (i.e. see our experiences in VOICED) 10:49 < fenn> what's "this other group"? 10:50 < kanzure> i forwarded you the emails i got from jonathan kuniholm so you should take a peak.. basically jon got word of this from some people putting together a team and said "gee this has bryan's name all over it" 10:50 < kanzure> and todd says he knows these people (that jon got word from) 10:50 < kanzure> todd is suggesting subcontractin for these people 10:53 < fenn> right 10:58 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has quit [Quit: mheld] 11:07 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:11 * fenn mumbles something about sleep deprivation 11:16 -!- streety [~Jonathan@host109-153-12-180.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:18 < kanzure> -- 11:23 < kanzure> heybryan.org (leibniz) is dead 11:23 < kanzure> bash segfaults upon login 11:24 < kanzure> and logging in via gdm doesn't work either.. 11:36 < phryk> :D 11:36 < phryk> there i am freshly on the body hacking ml 11:36 < phryk> and who is the first guy i see posting? kanzure :D 11:37 < fenn> is non-greedy matching possible with grep? 11:40 < kanzure> -V? 11:40 < phryk> that is version... 11:41 < phryk> the small oreilly book on regexps only mentions greedy multipliers for shelltools (awk, grep, sed) 11:41 < kanzure> er wait 11:41 < phryk> mhh 11:42 < kanzure> oh i was thinking -v.. which is "invert match", which isn't what you want anyway 11:42 < phryk> -P may help, that is using perl-regexps, if you do a non greedy perl-regex with grep -P, it could work 11:42 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has quit [Quit: mheld] 11:42 < fenn> ah -P works, thanks. i thought i would have to install pcregrep 11:43 < phryk> no prob 11:43 < phryk> I'm going back to bed^^ 11:52 < kanzure> you know fenn, if you travelled around like todd did you'd always have a usable excuse for tiredness :P 11:52 < kanzure> but you'd probably never get anything done 11:54 < fenn> at least i'd have fun 12:10 < ybit> i'll give you some fun, come to alabama good sir :P 12:11 < kanzure> new poll: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/humanityplusvote/surveys?id=2314773 12:11 < ybit> still can't view that 12:11 < AJollyLife> phryk: heh, im on that list now :) 12:12 < ybit> they most likely won't approve me either 12:14 < kanzure> ybit: they are no longer approving new members 12:15 < AJollyLife> kanzure: they are not? i was told i had to join. who runs the list, druid? 12:16 < kanzure> AJollyLife: we're talking about something else (humanity+ elections) 12:17 < AJollyLife> ahhh 12:17 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-24-63-206-22.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:34 < eridu> I like how everyone in the humanity+ election is white 12:35 < Utopiah> that sounds a little bit racist 12:35 < kanzure> eridu: there's been lots of nonwhities before :) 12:36 < eridu> transhumanism is the radical idea that in the future, being rich and white will be even MORE awesome 12:36 < Utopiah> and male 12:37 < eridu> there is one womyn in the election 12:37 < eridu> SO CLEARLY THE GOALS OF FEMINISM HAVE BEEN ACCOMPLISHED 12:37 < kanzure> are you trolling? 12:37 < eridu> ironically 12:37 * Utopiah votes yes on troll 12:37 < eridu> it's certainly true that in the future, being rich and white will be even more awesome, assuming that the current social hierarchies are not attacked 12:38 < eridu> it's from picturesforsadchildren 12:38 < eridu> which had a disappointingly anti-transhumanist rant maybe a quarter of the way into the current archive 12:39 < eridu> I took the humanity+ election as an opportunity to comment on the state of the attack on current social hierarchies, which is overall negative 12:39 < kanzure> Utopiah: sorry the board membesr didn't like the poll 12:39 < kanzure> Utopiah: so you will have to vote again. 12:39 < kanzure> hahah 12:39 < kanzure> (your troll vote) 12:42 < kanzure> next reprap version is named "huxley" 12:47 < ybit> anyone know how to find where a document, found using google, was linked from? 12:47 < any15615961> what? 12:48 -!- any15615961 is now known as katsmeow 12:48 < kanzure> he wants google to put "linkedfrom:" back into action 12:48 < katsmeow> o 12:48 < ybit> ah, got it 12:50 < jrayhawk> http://www.picturesforsadchildren.com/blog/startrek1.png 13:07 -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk 13:13 -!- killall-9 [~paulc@diana.null.ro] has quit [Quit: cd ~] 13:28 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-24-63-206-22.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:29 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:46 < kanzure> "Cost of DNA sequencing, another of his examples, is today at 0.000008(USD) per base pair [scienceblogs.com]. Fits the curve. " 13:46 < kanzure> woops that's sequencing.. nevermind 13:51 < kanzure> kurzweil getting slammed: http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/08/17/1536233/Ray-Kurzweil-Does-Not-Understand-the-Brain 13:57 -!- streety [~Jonathan@host109-153-12-180.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:59 -!- ferrouswheel [~joel@121-98-81-17.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:39 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-66-66-5-254.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:45 -!- panax [panax@goldstandard.eng.usf.edu] has quit [Quit: got root?] 14:56 -!- splicer [~patrik@h126n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:59 -!- patrik [~patrik@h126n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:00 -!- patrik is now known as Guest94452 15:50 < QuantumG> http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/08/ray_kurzweil_does_not_understa.php 15:50 < QuantumG> yeah 15:51 < kanzure> if i could /topic i would. 15:51 < Utopiah> New olympic discipline: Kurzweil bashing. 15:53 < kanzure> /topic "Kurzweil does not believe technological progress happens in leaps and bounds. He believes technological progress zooms down a wormhole and comes out in a different universe." - slashdot age mystic 15:55 < kanzure> you know, add mckenna and leary to that and you have something rivaling fenn's bloomington theory 15:56 -!- ferrouswheel [~joel@121-98-81-17.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:56 < kanzure> hi ferrouswheel 15:56 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:57 < QuantumG> uh huh.. I have mods on slashdot at the moment and there's nothing in the Kurzweil article comments that I'd wanna mod either up or down 15:57 < kanzure> QuantumG: same here 15:57 < kanzure> want to post and i'll mod you up? 15:57 < QuantumG> nothing I'd like to post 15:57 < kanzure> :P 15:57 < kanzure> sometimes i upvote paul fernhout's crazy rantings just for the hell of it 15:58 < QuantumG> my problem with Ray is that he often makes *factual* claims without references. 15:58 < kanzure> i think one of the reasons he's achieved popularity is because people started hedging financial bets on the law of accelerating returns 15:58 < QuantumG> having opinions is fine as far as I'm concerned, no matter how wild they are, but making factual claims should be backed up. 15:58 < kanzure> and there's some number of people making returns in the tech industry or something 15:58 < kanzure> nothing else can explain this as far as i can tell.. 15:58 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:59 < QuantumG> that and he says interesting stuff.. if you've never heard it before. 15:59 < kanzure> sure 15:59 < ferrouswheel> kanzure, hi 15:59 < QuantumG> Franz Gayl was on The Space Show the other day 15:59 < QuantumG> http://thespaceshow.com/detail.asp?q=1408 15:59 < QuantumG> the whole show is boring military space talk 16:00 < QuantumG> but at the end he starts ranting about how excited he is that he's going to Singularity U 16:00 < kanzure> ferrouswheel: can you remind me why i'm running for humanity+? 16:00 < QuantumG> and literally gushes about Ray 16:00 < kanzure> QuantumG: yeah, singularity u is basically a club 16:00 < QuantumG> "discovering" post-humanism is a religious experience to many. 16:01 < ferrouswheel> man, what a shitstorm the H+ elections have turn into... 16:01 < ferrouswheel> kanzure, because you believe in transhumanism and it'll all work out right in the end? 16:01 < kanzure> humanity+ is not about transhumanism as far as i can tell 16:02 < kanzure> some people talk about it at conferences once in a while maybe :P 16:02 < kanzure> so i was thinking i should step down and post an email asking them to remove me from this bullshit 16:02 < kanzure> i mean, it's sort of the only respectable move to make 16:03 < ferrouswheel> I can remove my vote for you if you if you're not really interested in it any more... 16:03 < kanzure> :) we'll see how it goes. 16:04 < ferrouswheel> My only concern is people withdrawing will cause more ruckus, and as much as I think things are shitty right now I do want Humanity+ to flourish. 16:04 < kanzure> why this organization in particular. 16:04 < kanzure> why not something that doesn't suck 16:04 < kanzure> haha you removed your vote quickly 16:05 < ferrouswheel> ? I haven't touched it since an hour earlier... 16:05 < kanzure> oh, well, someone did 16:05 < ferrouswheel> Have you got a script polling the results? 16:05 < kanzure> yes 16:05 < kanzure> that's how i have all this data 16:07 < ferrouswheel> now you need live graphs! 16:07 < kanzure> agreed 16:08 < ferrouswheel> and trend analysis, and then a futures market 16:08 < kanzure> there was this really beautiful graphing system i saw once where it had javascript-based fluid graphs 16:08 * ferrouswheel sometimes gets carried away 16:08 < kanzure> where you could move a slider with respect to time and see different colors/dots move up and down on the graphs (like a race) 16:13 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:13 -!- panax [~p@cpe-72-185-51-10.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:15 -!- mheld [~mheld@216.214.247.202] has quit [Quit: mheld] 16:33 < fenn> phones are ringing off the hook over here in the election campaign call center 16:33 < fenn> "up and to the right" etc etc 16:36 -!- any88614625 [~someone@75-120-2-205.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:39 -!- katsmeow-afk [~someone@75-120-2-149.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:07 -!- Juul [~Juul@h55eb1609.dkkoost.sta.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:14 < JayDugger> Good afternoon--evening, rather, everyone. 17:19 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:25 < jrayhawk> i am not sure i want to see someone literally gush about kurzweil 17:26 < jrayhawk> it sounds disgusting 17:26 < JayDugger> Eh? 17:26 < JayDugger> Do you mean the new movie? 17:30 < JayDugger> It might make a good popular introduction to transhumanist ideas. 17:36 < JayDugger> The vehicleforge.mil BAA is quite a lot to chew on. 17:46 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:51 < JayDugger> For those interested, I'll mark up a copy of the BAA on Google Docs. 17:51 < JayDugger> https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1xb-ttVVyvZJ6TAA9W1-ZlCkZ0MutD-ORL9KxtRQkqMI&hl=en&authkey=CIWIhp4G 17:53 < fenn> not public doc 17:54 < JayDugger> Odd...let me check. 17:55 < JayDugger> Probably my error... 17:56 < JayDugger> https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1xb-ttVVyvZJ6TAA9W1-ZlCkZ0MutD-ORL9KxtRQkqMI&hl=en&authkey=CJzf5r8N 17:56 < JayDugger> I reset the link such that "Anyone who has the link can _view_" 17:57 < fenn> i think google just hates me 17:57 < fenn> anyway, is that just the PDF? 17:57 < JayDugger> That could be true. So far, yes. I plan to make in-line comments. 17:58 < JayDugger> Some anonymous user views it now. 17:58 * fenn goes shopping/home 18:03 < JayDugger> "The DARPA Program Manager for this BAA is Paul Eremenko." 18:04 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:05 < JayDugger> Pipl.com search results for "Paul Eremenko" http://tinyurl.com/27w9dha 18:05 < JayDugger> LinkedIn profile for him. http://www.linkedin.com/in/pauleremenko 18:06 < QuantumG> http://quantumg.net/franz-gayl-singularity-gushing.mp3 <- US Marine gushing about getting into the Singularity University 18:06 < JayDugger> Better than most deployments, yes. :) 18:12 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: I don't know enough about writing federal proposals to give meaningful advice on application. Seek professional help, possibly at UTA. 18:15 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: Consider joining a team that can cover the federal overhead. 18:17 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: DARPA expects unclassified proposals. If you join a team, ask about this point. If you already have a security clearance, they might need to know, and if needed, they might cover the application. 18:20 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: Since DARPA plans to open-source this, I really doubt this will come up in the initial proposal--BUT given its intended use for military vehicles, the work will probably have to include handling classified material at some point. That might be initially out of scope for the project. 18:30 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: READ this section (Export Control). This project seems set-up for a collision between ITAR and open source. The lega challenges seem formidable and possibly more important to the project's success than the technical side. - jay.dugger 18:33 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: Contract winners must use the E-Verify program to cover themselves against employing illegal aliens. (Only slightly cynical.) 18:34 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: You have to register as a federal contractor if you win. 18:36 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: More overhead. You must also use WAWF, i-Edison, and " complete electronic annual representations and certifications." 18:41 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: Intellectual property inventory might be necessary so DARPA can apply an open source license to the end product. 18:42 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: If Todd Huffman's getting DARPA funding, ask him about his experiences with them. He might know, or have a social link with, the Program Manager Paul Eremenko. 18:48 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: Other people to ask about this project: Robert Freitas (obviously), E. S. Raymond (seriously, for his 2009 work on software forges (http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1369)) 18:51 < kanzure> fenn: just got back from a long hangout-meeting with dave.. yeah, this is going to happen :) 18:53 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: I suspect the performers working on META and META-II have an advantage for the vehicleforge.mil BAA. 18:54 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:59 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: Will work more on this tomorrow, family time and work prep. 19:02 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: Link dump follows, will move to delicious.com in due course. 19:03 < JayDugger> kanzure, BAA: Link dump at http://gist.github.com/73a329342c99795c6fa9 19:03 < JayDugger> Good night, everyone. 19:04 < QuantumG> you should be listening to The Space Show right now http://thespaceshow.com/live.htm 19:06 < kanzure> JayDugger: thank you 19:06 < kanzure> fenn: so, the pitch i've been using to win dave over (he has a standard/reasonable amount of apathy for anything related to contracts/grants/proposal) 19:06 < kanzure> is that thingiverse has makerbot users 19:06 < kanzure> and this would have *military* users 19:11 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:11 < kanzure> Anyway, time to commute, and remember me when SpaceX wants to use vehicleforge.mil for a nuclear thermal Mars rocket. :) 19:14 < QuantumG> SpaceX wants NASA (or whoever) to develop nuclear thermal and leave chemical rocket development to them. 19:14 < QuantumG> and Elon himself says nuclear thermal aint even interesting. 19:28 < kanzure> the META-2 proposal that was referenced is interesting: 19:28 < kanzure> https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=39e9ecaeb317a64389dd59eb2cf12d1f&tab=core&_cview=1 19:28 < kanzure> pdf: https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=4dc31bf2b9330dd60a991171bdee29df 19:28 < kanzure> heh also "and please tell us how to build a library of components to use in this design representation for complex military systems, kthxbai" 19:43 < kanzure> abstraction based complexity final report https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=9cb78f01aa9db1fe92e093e786bc6733 19:46 < kanzure> the quality of these papers is less than matt campbell's graphsynth work 19:46 < kanzure> i'm surprised.. 19:47 < kanzure> where are they getting their component libraries from? 19:50 < kanzure> okay, yeah they don't have a component library (as far as i can tell) 19:50 < kanzure> so solving that problem at the same time ("how are we going to get a component library") would be something they find valuable 19:51 < kanzure> (namely the component model library comes from users uploading STEP/IGES parts and then doing some metadata on it, and eventually technical analysis or basic equation representation before simulation or verification can happen) 19:52 < kanzure> "Determine a method of architecture synthesis that can be used to explore the complete design space available during early conceptual design" 19:53 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:53 < kanzure> "Assess analytical methods available to identify weakly connected areas in a complex system for the purpose of clustering" 19:53 < kanzure> it's like reading my job description from ADL :P 19:57 < kanzure> https://wiki.sei.cmu.edu/aadl/index.php/The_Story_of_AADL 20:14 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-90-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 20:17 < kanzure> so part of the requirements of vehicleforge.mil is using the META-2 languages that those contractors have been making for their component libraries and so on 20:17 < kanzure> i don't know what that's going to involve. that's a little troubling. 20:37 < kanzure> i guess i cuold just phone up these people and ask them what they are cooking: https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=39e9ecaeb317a64389dd59eb2cf12d1f&tab=ivl&tabmode=list 20:37 < kanzure> huh ptc.com took the job? 20:45 < fenn> wtf is META-2 and where are you getting this info? 20:47 < kanzure> META-2 description: https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=39e9ecaeb317a64389dd59eb2cf12d1f&tab=core&_cview=1 20:47 < kanzure> pdf: https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=4dc31bf2b9330dd60a991171bdee29df 20:47 < kanzure> weird paper attached to that description page: https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=9cb78f01aa9db1fe92e093e786bc6733 20:48 < fenn> i dont suppose anybody at fbo.gov ever read "cool urls last" 20:48 < kanzure> vehicleforge.mil pdf: https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=11a895334e76707406e3b78c918357cd 20:48 < kanzure> so in the vehicleforge request they specifically mention that one of the tasks is integrating whatever output comes from META-2 20:48 < kanzure> (page 5, program scope #1) 20:49 < any88614625> *** Unable to resolve vehicleforge.mil , how do you get there? 20:49 < kanzure> any88614625: it doesn't exist yet.. the idea is that fenn and i are going to build it 20:50 < any88614625> with a .mil on it? 20:50 * kanzure nods 20:50 < any88614625> they don't just hand thoe out to anyone 20:51 < fenn> did you talk to sean morrison? 20:51 < kanzure> he seemed disinterested 20:51 < kanzure> any88614625: https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=f0a0b6204a5fc937bb926ce5e5b52851&tab=core&_cview=0 20:52 < kanzure> oh, that's the wrong link.. that's the draft BAA 20:53 < kanzure> i'm supposed to be on the phone with todd as of 5min ago 20:56 < kanzure> dave says brownell is on board :) 21:02 -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:12 < fenn> google hates me 21:15 < fenn> maybe if they wouldn't treat their own products as infallible they wouldnt have these sorts of problems 21:15 < kanzure> on phone with todd 21:28 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30 < fenn> argh now it sends all my google groups mail to gmail 21:34 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:36 < fenn> damn they stole my web history too 21:41 -!- Phreedom [~quassel@109.254.6.63] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:42 < kanzure> fenn: check your inbox.. sent you the transcript i did of call with todd 22:09 < kanzure> fenn: i am bcc'ing you on an email (with .pdf in the subject line), please do not reply to it (it has a large CC list) 22:10 < kanzure> or if you do reply, only to brownell/dave/me 22:26 -!- any88614625 is now known as katsmeow 22:37 < kanzure> fenn: did you read it? 22:38 * fenn snickers at "maintain the american hemeergitiyny over the world" 22:47 < fenn> who is brownell btw? 22:48 < kanzure> brownell is an angel investor that hangs out with dave 22:49 < kanzure> i guess they are business partners. brownell does lots of programming (rails) stuff too. used to do darpa stuff. uh.. 23:00 < fenn> just so you know i will have all the time in the world to work on this after around sept 11 (how ironic) 23:01 < kanzure> fired? 23:01 < fenn> quit 23:01 < kanzure> too lame? 23:01 < fenn> i can't handle waking up at the same time every day 23:02 < fenn> and too beige, sql, people talking at me 23:02 < fenn> but mostly the sleep deprivation 23:03 < fenn> notice i'm fully awake now that it's "bedtime" 23:03 < kanzure> :) 23:03 * kanzure pesters dave to come in 23:04 < fenn> so, wd "blue" "scorpio" 500GB drives are only like $50, plus $15 enclosure and you're set, can carry around all your data in your pocket 23:05 < kanzure> sd cards? 23:05 < fenn> and they run off of usb power - hard drive 23:05 < fenn> this is something that's been on my shopping list for like 2 years now 23:18 < fenn> what do they mean exactly by "cyber"? 23:18 < fenn> is this military-speak for "computer" or actually referring to cybernetics in particular? 23:21 < kanzure> where did i say that? 23:21 < fenn> in the BAA there's multiple references to "cyber-electro-mechanical systems" 23:22 < fenn> er, the proposer's day announcement 23:25 < kanzure> it could be both.. but control systems definitely fall within this category of things they want to represent 23:25 < kanzure> and obviously this is electronic 23:25 < fenn> is it normal (i.e. not just google trying to get me) to get a "500 temporary error" when accessing gmail? 23:26 < kanzure> no it's not normal 23:26 < kanzure> gmail gives those once in a while though. usually it's fixed "eventually" 23:33 < kanzure> did you see the META-2 report thingy? the one with the papers in it 23:34 < ybit> anyone understand why this is supposed to be delta waves? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAQZeevA0Go 23:34 < ybit> delta is up to 4Hz, not above it 23:48 -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-219-8.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:53 -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-94-52.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:54 * kanzure sleeps 23:57 -!- SeH_2 [~SeH_2@c-24-3-194-51.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] --- Log closed Wed Aug 18 00:00:17 2010