--- Log opened Wed Sep 01 00:00:17 2010
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00:42 < splicer> soon SingularityU is going to claim they invented those
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04:37 < QuantumG> no no, NASA
04:38 < QuantumG> JP probably got some NASA funding once upon a time, they'll claim he's a NASA researcher and put everything he ever does in the NASA spinoffs newsletter
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06:50 < kanzure> "Wikitext is provably impossible to describe as EBNF."
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07:20 < kanzure> hi JayDugger 
07:21 < kanzure> holy crap some people really do "think in powerpoint"
07:21 < kanzure> if you don't make it a bullet, they don't get it
07:28 < Japa> *Some People Are Dumb.
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08:21 < drazak> kanzure: know anyone that made tamiflu from aspirin?
08:21 < kanzure> superkuh: that question is probably better suited for you
08:23 < drazak> kanzure: and besides that, do you have the instructions / pictures for tamiflu from aspirin?
08:25 < kanzure> drazak: superkuh will probably have something to say
08:25 < kanzure> in other news, wtf is this crap? http://singularity-2045.org/POST-SCARCITY.zip
08:25 < kanzure> http://singularity-2045.org/post-scarcity-hope-science-technology-vanquish-despair.html
08:26 < drazak> kanzure: you don't have the link to the thing oyu had for it
08:27 < JayDugger> * Some People Do Like Power Point
08:27 < JayDugger> # It Simplifies
08:27 < JayDugger> ## Makes simplistic
08:27 < kanzure> drazak: "thing you had for it" can you be more descriptive?
08:27 < JayDugger> ## And keeps MSFT from tanking
08:28 < drazak> kanzure: you had an image or pdf on the synthesis from aspirin
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09:16 < drazak> kanzure: do you still have that machine I can log into to look up papers and stuff?
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09:21 < kanzure> no, that was designfiles.org
09:21 < kanzure> however, i do have access to papers still if you need something (on an individual basis)
09:23 < drazak> I have a couple papers I'd like to look for
09:23 < drazak> my o-chem professor said we might be able to synthesize tamiflu (for fun) if we can get shikimic acid
09:24 < kanzure> by "get" do you mean synthesize on your own or by some deal with merck/fischer/whatever
09:24 < drazak> uh
09:25 < drazak> probably buy some star anise or sweetgum
09:25 < drazak> and isolate it ourselves
09:25 < kanzure> cool.
09:25 < drazak> because it's rediculously expensive
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09:25 < drazak> ~115$ / g
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09:26 < drazak> kanzure: can you get me http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ed082p599 ?
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09:31 < drazak> kanzure: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jo980330q that as well, and that should be everything I need
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09:49 < kanzure> your request will be processed in the order in which it was received
10:03 < superkuh> drazak: http://superkuh.ath.cx/users/superkuh/oldfiles/oseltamivir.txt , http://superkuh.ath.cx/users/superkuh/oldfiles/ostsynth.gif
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10:06 < drazak> superkuh: cool, does it work?
10:06 < superkuh> Probably not. It was a route discussed between myself and Christ back when we were both more than a little crazy and young.
10:07 < superkuh> Er, Chris.
10:07 < superkuh> Not christ.
10:07 < superkuh> It certainly has never been tried.
10:07 < drazak> superkuh: nothing exotic in there?
10:08 < drazak> superkuh: we might have all of that, we have a ton of chem storage here
10:08 < drazak> and if we don't have it we can make it, probably
10:08 < drazak> we're a fully stocked ochem lab
10:08 < superkuh> The above synthesis was designed to do in an apartment kitchen.
10:09 < drazak> superkuh: we might try the tried and true star anise extraction method that's in the papers that I'm having kanzure get
10:09 < drazak> brb, heading over to the otehr building to do a few thinhgs, might talkj to the whacky professor that's into trying this
10:10 < superkuh> You should probably look at the Corey synthesis first from which Christ adapted the above.
10:10 < superkuh> Gah! Chris. I don't know where those extra t's come from.
10:11 < superkuh> Or Trost's.
10:13 < ENKI-][> superkuh: obviously your buddy Chris is the second coming ;-)
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10:29 < drazak> superkuh: I read about the corey synthesis, but it's an extra step, although, I think this might be the corey method because it doesn't have azides : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Tamiflu2.gif
10:30 < drazak> superkuh: actually, it can't be, it doesn't use any super special catalysts
10:31 < drazak> the corey method uses a proprietary catalyst, from further reading
10:33 < drazak> superkuh: fyi, anise is cheap, and yield from soxhlet extraction followed by ion chromotography followed by toluene and methanol cleaning, for 2-7% yield
10:34 < drazak> superkuh: see the first paper I linked kanzure to
10:54 < epitron> have you guys ever seen a video of the realistic simulation of all the motion of all the molecules inside a cell?
10:54 < epitron> all jittery and chaotic?
10:54 < epitron> i saw one once, and it was awesome, but i can't find it again...
10:55 < kanzure> it was from the harvard group
10:55 < kanzure> "inner life of the cell"
10:57 < epitron> no no, this is the unrealistic one where everything is calm and smooth :)
10:57 < epitron> and things just move and lock into each other
10:57 < epitron> the realistic one has tons of jitter in the molecules from heat, and shit is going crazy
10:57 < epitron> it's impossible to see anything
10:58 < epitron> that's the one that's hard to find
10:59 < epitron> hahah.. this harvard one is so funny... it looks like a video of a glass breaking played backwards... things are just magically coming together
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11:03 < killall-9> well, "all the molecules" would be quite a number
11:03 < epitron> yeah yeah mr. pedantic i didn't mean all the molecules in the universe
11:03 < epitron> they didn't draw water :)
11:03  * killall-9 goes counting strings
11:04 < epitron> making sure your shirt's threadcount is accurate? :)
11:04 < killall-9> 1, 2, 3, ...
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11:19 < kanzure> http://www.genengnews.com/gen-articles/do-it-yourself-bioengineers-bedeviled-by-society-s-paranoia/3383/
11:21 < epitron> man, i still can't find this damn video
11:22 < epitron> i remember it being totally random when i first found it... it was a .MOV file on some obscure page on some researcher's homepage
11:24 < kanzure> weird organ printing website suggestion thread on the immortality institute forums.. http://www.imminst.org/forum/topic/43458-organ-printing-ii/
11:25 < kanzure> updated: http://bit.ly/diybionews
11:51 < epitron> i found alan kay talking about those cell simulations at ted:
11:51 < epitron> "As a former molecular biologist, I don't like most simulations of the inside of the cell at all. Not because they aren't beautiful or anything, but because they miss the thing that most students fail to understand about molecular biology, and that is, why is there any probability at all of two complex shapes finding each other just the right way so they combine together and be catalyzed?
11:51 < epitron> "What you see is every reaction being fortuitous; the molecules just swooped in the air and bind, and something happens. But in fact those molecules are spinning at the rate of about a million revolutions per second. They're agitating back and forth their size every two nanoseconds. They're completely crowded together. They're jammed, they're bashing up against each other.
11:52 < epitron> "And if you don't understand that in your mental model of this stuff, what happens inside of a cell seems completely mysterious and fortuitous."
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12:10 < drazak> kanzure: don't bother looking for those papers
12:10 < drazak> I got them from someone else
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13:17 < kanzure> "U.S. IP is worth between $5 trillion and $5.5 trillion, yet the continuing trade in counterfeit products results in the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs annually."
13:17 < kanzure> the document goes on to suggest enforcing more border control between US/Mexico and US/Canada to stop IP theft
13:17 < kanzure> heh
13:18 < drazak> uhm
13:18 < drazak> what?
13:19 < kanzure> that was from the national association of manufacturers: http://www.nam.org/~/media/99977BFAD78B4DA1B812C4DD3F3CC94F.ashx
13:20 < drazak> oh
13:20 < drazak> intellectual propery
13:20 < drazak> not IP address
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13:20 < drazak> I was very confused there for a second
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13:35 < kanzure> "(which is what worries me about Copenhagen Suborbitals. I envy their skills and wish them the best, but I worry about what a failed amateur manned rocket could do to the rest of the civilian space effort)"
13:36 < kanzure> i think anyone who kills themselves (in a professional manner) through civilian space efforts should be classified as a war hero, end of story
13:36 < kanzure> .. unless they were a complete idiot and their design sucked :)
14:04 < epitron> isn't the concern that these people will leave debris in orbit that'll fuck shit up?
14:04 < epitron> it's possible for us to surround our planet with so much orbiting cruft that we can't get into space anymore :)
14:04 < epitron> this is one of the major fears about space weapons
14:05 < epitron> people will start using those missile defense lasers to shoot each others' satellites
14:05 < epitron> and it'll leave debris everywhere that'll destroy the rest of the satellites
14:05 < epitron> s/people will/the fear is that people will/
14:13 < splicer> Debris in low orbit falls down pretty quickly
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15:11 < epitron> splicer: so that's not a concern with these guys?
15:11 < epitron> i mean, a failure could send debris in a spherical radius
15:11 < kanzure> holy crap adrian bowyer is actually using git
15:13 < epitron> old people to admire
15:13 < epitron> :)
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15:18 < jrayhawk> Failures are unlikely to occur after achieving orbit.
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15:20 < jrayhawk> The mess created by a failure prior to achieving orbit will take care of itself.
15:20 < epitron> why is ther so much space junk then?
15:21 < epitron> there's thousands and thousands of bits of crud up there
15:21 < QuantumG> cause every launch takes an upper stage with it 
15:21 < QuantumG> and if it's to a high enough orbit, it'll take a long time to come down.
15:21 < QuantumG> but the real question is, why would you ever want to bring down something that you just spent >$5,000/kg to put up?
15:21 < epitron> so only things that are going further than orbit leave crud?
15:22 < QuantumG> stuff in LEO degrades very quickly
15:22 < epitron> yep, i got that bit
15:24 < QuantumG> if you believe that people will one day live in orbit, then you're deorbiting their birthright whenever you bring down "space junk"
15:26 < jrayhawk> "DESPITE WHAT YOU MIGHT READ IN THE NEWS, THIS IS A TEST ROCKET FLYING TO A MAX OF 30 KM"
15:26 < QuantumG> I love the caps
15:26 < jrayhawk> Apparently needed!
15:28 < QuantumG> hhmm.. launch date has slipped out to te 4th
15:38 < QuantumG> new pictures at the end of this megathread:  http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3271649&userid=49790
15:44 < QuantumG> video v
15:44 < QuantumG> video http://nyhedsvideo.dk/100901raket/
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16:41 < kanzure> what? a $10 trillion patent lawsuit?
16:41 < kanzure> http://www.bryancave.com/files/Publication/1335a9aa-fa35-436f-8371-41f08218f064/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/21b012c0-81c6-46e3-9f74-440299fadc26/intellectual%20property6-11-10.pdf
16:41 < kanzure> it made it up to the federal court:
16:41 < kanzure> http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=12572296720100347939&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr
16:48 < kanzure> lol "property today is worth between $5 trillion and $5.5 trillion, equivalent to about 45 percent of. U.S. GDP and greater than the GDP of any other nation in"
16:49 < epitron> was it a patent on derivatives? :)
16:50 < kanzure> "Similarly, to speak in terms of pro- and anti- IP forces does not contribute to the credibility of the PTO's policy leadership. Truly 'anti-IP' forces lack legitimacy and thus are not a threat to the system; the PTO has no interest in legitimizing mere anarchists in its strategic plan."
16:51 < kanzure> the death star has a critical weakness and the time for our attack has come!
16:51 < kanzure> :P
16:51 < kanzure> there will be no one to stop us this time
16:51 < kanzure> *aphex twin beat*
16:52 < epitron> it's a trap!
16:53 < kanzure> http://www.dockingbay101.com/sounds/anakin/ep4/StopUs.wav
17:02 < kanzure> "Intellectual property makes up more than half of all U.S. exports, driving 40% of the country's growth"
17:02 < kanzure> whaat?
17:14 < jrayhawk> I hate to break it to you, but the U.S. really doesn't export all that much.
17:18 < JayDugger> As measured by?
17:18 < jrayhawk> percentage GDP
17:18 < JayDugger> That might be so.
17:18 < JayDugger> Other metrics would give different answers, I suspect.
17:19 < JayDugger> That's pretty far off-topic though.
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17:51 < kanzure> QuantumG: is this of any value?
17:51 < kanzure> http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/dsh/gwspi-p1.html
17:53 < QuantumG> looks like a memoirs collection
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17:54 < QuantumG> "Duff describes how he got the press and NASA senior managers to cooperate during the shuttle pre-flight period; stopping the flow of bad press"
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17:54 < QuantumG> that sounds like lulz
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17:55 < kanzure> cool DARPA has been funding kitware? http://search.slashdot.org/story/10/09/01/1956219/US-Spends-11M-To-Kick-Start-Video-Search
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19:17 < kanzure> who is dr. megavolt? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emBfx5i08rQ
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21:12 < kanzure> http://chenlab.seas.upenn.edu/ "I am a post-doctoral fellow at University of Pennsylvania, Department of Bioengineering. We are using reprap for tissue engineering research."
21:13 < QuantumG> heh
21:14 < kanzure> http://github.com/jmil/makerbot
21:14 < kanzure> http://github.com/jmil/skeinforge
21:14 < kanzure> http://github.com/jmil/SkeinFox
21:17 < kanzure> three.js gcode canvas thingy http://www.d1plo1d.com/cad_canvas/examples/gcode_canvas.html
21:17 < kanzure> http://github.com/D1plo1d/CadCanvas
21:17 < kanzure> http://cloudscad.com/stl_viewer
21:17 < kanzure> http://github.com/tbuser/three.js/blob/master/examples/stl_viewer.html
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21:36 < kanzure> hi [X-Pro]Endos 
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21:37 < [X-Pro]Endos> hey kanzure
21:37 < [X-Pro]Endos> how's it going?
21:55 < kanzure> "The first Kriorus's full-body dewar "Anabiosis-1" is ready. Today we are beginind the final test just now, the purpose of this test - to clarify it's mode of operation and reliability of vacuum system."
21:55 < kanzure> "We've decided don't hurry to understand the mode of consumption of liquid nitrogen. So, I've designated  to transport our dear patients to "Anabiosis-1" at the the period 10-14-th September."
22:00 < [X-Pro]Endos> anabiosis-1, is that the name of some kind of hospice? lol
22:01 < kanzure> it's a full-body dewar
22:01 < kanzure> you put bodies in there and pray that molecular nanotech will be liek magics
22:01 < [X-Pro]Endos> ahh
22:02 < kanzure> http://www.secularhumanism.org/fi/dealing-with-dying/hoffman.jpg
22:02 < kanzure> hah they are on wheels http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/atrueoriginall/UFO%20pictures/alcor-dewar2-152x300.jpg
22:03 < [X-Pro]Endos> can they actually revive any of these people?
22:03 < [X-Pro]Endos> because that would be spectacular
22:03 < kanzure> nope
22:03 < [X-Pro]Endos> didn't think so lol
22:05 < [X-Pro]Endos> I guess some people are just too afraid to die naturally
22:05 < kanzure> http://alcor.org/
22:06 < kanzure> i'd prefer to choose when i'm going to die, thanks
22:06 < kanzure> http://fuckdeath.org/ (not what you think)
22:07 < [X-Pro]Endos> lol
22:08 < phryk> ewww imagemap for text? o_O
22:09 < [X-Pro]Endos> i would prefer to spend my life working on technology to extend human life, but in my opinion, cryogenically freezing yourself in the foreseeable future is the equivalent of  dying - but i can understand not wanting it to just come suddenly
22:09 < katsmeow-afk> they said "were" for "we're
22:09 < katsmeow-afk> "
22:10 < [X-Pro]Endos> also i'd be more afraid of the company going bankrupt before the technology could revive a frozen person arrives
22:16 < kanzure> for the record, alcor manages your pension funds for you to make sure the liquid nitrogen supply doesn't go out
22:18 < [X-Pro]Endos> ahhh
22:18 < [X-Pro]Endos> very clever
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22:44 < any61870228> this 3rd rate isp pulls the plug at least once a month for "maintenance"
22:45 -!- any61870228 is now known as katsmeow
22:45 < katsmeow> err, once a WEEK
22:45  * katsmeow looks peeved 
22:47 < epitron> sounds like you need a shell account
22:47 < katsmeow> i would not be able to connect to it during outages
22:47 < katsmeow> rain, lightning within 200 miles, high wind, or "maintenance"
22:48 < epitron> yes, but it would retain a log of all activity whilst you killed some time
22:48  * katsmeow nods
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 02 00:00:17 2010