--- Log opened Wed Nov 10 00:00:08 2010
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02:20 < memorex> http://www.observer.com/2010/daily-transom/future-alert-std-test-theres-app
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07:40 < flamt> http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/11/10/066210/Construction-On-Spaceship-Factory-Set-To-Begin-In-the-Mojave
07:49 < archels> "The Spaceship Co." is the awesomest name ever for a company.
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08:51 < kanzure> anyone going to society for neuroscience in san diego this week/next?
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08:56 < kanzure> art with bioluminescent bacteria http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KYDTYcDtKQ
08:56 < kanzure> that was via Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com>
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09:01 < kanzure> the gibson assembly song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCWjJFU1be8
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09:02 < kanzure> denisa kera is doing a diybio/singapore talk at science center singapore
09:02 < kanzure> http://www.science.edu.sg/Events/Pages/EventDetail.aspx?ID=120@event
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09:03 < industromatic> I guessed openpcr was soso from descriptions on their site.  Just wanted to suggest they keep their promises.
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09:04 < industromatic> A better pcr machine would be a better project to do than microfluidics right away, but fluidics could be money making.
09:05 < kanzure> there is no data on the market size for diybio stuff
09:05 < kanzure> at the moment it looks like everyone involved is most likely broke
09:05 < industromatic> Nope.
09:05 < kanzure> most people are waiting for someone else to do the footwork and do the actual market validation
09:06 < industromatic> most likely.
09:06 < industromatic> But the kickstarter results of Tito J were real enough.
09:07 < kanzure> same with biocurious i guess.
09:07 < industromatic> Is openSCAD going to be the best way to do CAD output for simple shapes where you want tomake revisions?
09:07 < kanzure> but joe was really milking the crowsd to get the funding for--
09:07 < kanzure> industromatic: well, openscad only outputs to STL, and STL is like distributing a compiled file instead of the source code
09:07 < industromatic> biocurious is going to be what they focus on  -- you can tell they are very hands off mfrs.
09:07 < kanzure> you can distribute openscad .scad files (which defines the shapes and so on)
09:08 < industromatic> to distribute openscad .scad  seems a good thing for now.
09:08 < kanzure> but i am hesitant to recommend openscad because there's no STEP/IGES export plugin
09:08 < kanzure> so you can't get your "CAD" objects into solidworks/alibre/pro-engineer/catia 
09:09 < kanzure> on the other hand, if you just shared a STEP/IGES file, it would not be parametric either
09:09 < industromatic> wouldn't it be nice if there was a script driven input to HeeksCAD?
09:09 < kanzure> i consider openscad to be kind of "isolated" at the moment, so that's why i am disinterested in it
09:09 < kanzure> there is.. HeeksPython
09:09 < kanzure> dunno if heekspython is still working or not; also iirc freecad might have a python binding
09:09 < industromatic> WEll, then that can be as good as openSCAD..?
09:10 < industromatic> Freecad's going to be good.  I need now.
09:10 < kanzure> there's also python bindings to opencascade called pythonOCC-- the only problem is that OCC is big, bulky, and not meant for end-users (heekscad/freecad are GUIs on top of OCC)
09:10 < industromatic> HeeksCAD is working, just not as flexible for reuse.
09:10 < kanzure> this last option isn't quite ready for the primetime.. my CAD kernel called 'lolcad'
09:10 < kanzure> git://diyhpl.us/srv/git/lolcad.git
09:11 < industromatic> You can't get Heekscad drawings to parameterize much.
09:11 < kanzure> it's python-based CAD that exports to STEP
09:11 < kanzure> right
09:11 < kanzure> and saving things in STEP/IGES might insure you get compatibility across CAD platforms but you lose a lot of parametric information
09:11 < industromatic> what's your goal with lolcad?
09:11 < kanzure> for instance, if you save a drill bit in STEP, you lose the ability to redefine, say, the cylinder on which it was built-- you could cut/fuse the solid model but not much else
09:12 < industromatic> lolcad is for skdb, right?
09:12 < kanzure> lolcad is more generic (but yeah skdb can use it, skdb could also use openscad etc.)
09:12 < industromatic> In HeeksCAD, when I want to move a hole, I save anintermediate drawing that has the cylinder that cuts the hole.
09:12 < kanzure> my goal with lolcad is a parametric CAD kernel that is pythonic
09:13 < industromatic> parametric CAD kernel that is pythonic  -- great.
09:13 < kanzure> lolcad's primary feature is exporting to ISO 10303-21 AP203-- "STEP"
09:13 < kanzure> buuut as i mentioned, that's not quite enough for full parametric compatibility with i.e. solidworks
09:13 < kanzure> so i've been playing around with reverse engineering the solidworks file format
09:14 < kanzure> i've made a little bit of progress actually :)
09:15 < industromatic> solidworks is recommended by folks that use autocad and it.
09:15 < kanzure> if i get solidworks file format compatibility then it could be parametric in python/lolcad and also editable in solidworks
09:16 < kanzure> i was trying to get someone to write an IGES/STEP exporter for openscad but nothing came of that. i looked into writing one, but since the CGAL/OpenCSG licenses were a little wacky, i decided i'd be best off on my own
09:16 < kanzure> cathal garvey's new site http://www.indiebiotech.com/
09:18 < industromatic> He was just talking on diybio about open tools not mattering.  I thik there will be a market for kits and lab hardware because biologists are mostly hands off about cutting tools or electronics.
09:18 < kanzure> there is a strong misunderstanding of "open source" in the diybio community. i.e. witness openpcr
09:20 < industromatic> Cathal's site mentions talks he's giving mostly -- very professor like.
09:20 < industromatic> So why do you H__e Tito J.?  Not that I find him likeable much...
09:21 < kanzure> i've had a long history with him since 2008
09:21 < kanzure> he's more a marketing/sales type, if you know what i mean
09:21 < industromatic> He was trying to get me to work for him for $2000 per project....  :-)
09:21 < industromatic> Oh yeah.  self described marketing guy.
09:22 < kanzure> don't get me wrong.. diybio is very good at self-promotion http://bit.ly/diybionews
09:22 < industromatic> I think some of the lab hardware market will be university purchasing agents.
09:23 < industromatic> They'll want UL/ETL tested gear though.
09:23 < industromatic> And no "some assy required" instruction sheets.
09:24 < kanzure> joe has a company that was trying to commercialize a project he called "the lava amp", but he spent 100k on rob carlson to goof off with it
09:24 < industromatic> No response from the reprap folks you gave me the emails of.
09:24 < kanzure> i don't know if they did market validation or not for their thermocycler.. 
09:25 < kanzure> yeah, those reprap guys were colombians who may or may not still be alive/active
09:25 < kanzure> it was a long shot
09:25 < kanzure> they might only peripherally know of the person you wanted to reach
09:28 < industromatic> Is joe == josejaoquinprieto@hotmail.com?
09:31 < industromatic> lava amp still has anugly aluminum box with rubber bands holding on a sample vial shield.
09:31 < industromatic> On their main page.
09:39 < industromatic> I thought lava amp was guido nunez.
09:39 < industromatic> Did the 100K come from unreasonable institute?
09:40 < kanzure> joe is joseph jackson (biocurious, lava amp, transhumanism, diybio..)
09:40 < kanzure> yeah guido and joe are good pals
09:41 < kanzure> the 100k came from somewhere else. i don't think the unreasonable institute funded them
09:44 < kanzure> http://www.pearlbiotech.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/pearl_biotech-led_shield-02.zip
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10:17 < kanzure> http://www.rathenau.nl/en/agenda/meetings/conference-making-perfect-life-bio-engineering-in-the-21st-century-1.html
10:19 < kanzure> "Synthetic solutions to climate crisis: the dangers of synthetic biology for biofuels production" http://www.foe.org/sites/default/files/SynBio-Biofuels%20Report_Web.pdf
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11:53 < kanzure> Large-scale migration to an open source office suite: An innovation adoption study in Finland http://acta.uta.fi/haekokoversio.php?id=11357
11:53 < kanzure> apparently that's a phd thesis :P
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11:55 < kanzure> "Making Perfect Life: Bio-engineering in the 21st century" a conference for the european parliament http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/20101110mpl1 
11:55 < kanzure> http://www.rathenau.nl/agenda/bijeenkomsten/conference-making-perfect-life-bio-engineering-in-the-21st-century.html
11:55 < kanzure> woops, same thing as before
11:56 < kanzure> somehow i mistook ieet and iftf's website
11:58 < kanzure> It Will Be Awesome if They Don't Screw it Up: 3D Printing, Intellectual Property, and the Fight Over the Next Great Disruptive Technology http://www.publicknowledge.org/it-will-be-awesome-if-they-dont-screw-it-up 
11:58 < kanzure> pdf: http://www.publicknowledge.org/files/docs/3DPrintingPaperPublicKnowledge.pdf
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13:56 < kanzure> http://chetansurpur.com/blog/2010/11/magic-work-cycle.html
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14:10 < QuantumG> how's your cad program coming kanzure?
14:19 < kanzure> haven't made any commits lately..
14:20 < kanzure> i've been going down the solidworks fileformat rabbit hole
14:20 < kanzure> trying to figure it out- i think i'm pretty close actually
14:20 < QuantumG> did ya get anything working?
14:20 < kanzure> in lolcad, there's a few things "working" but not really meant for end-users yet
14:20 < QuantumG> what?
14:21 < kanzure> well, i don't really expect end-users to directly use the STEP API i wrote
14:21 < kanzure> there's no way they will /want/ to do that
14:21 < QuantumG> any visualization working?
14:21 < kanzure> yeah
14:22 < kanzure> basic nurbs objects- 2D surfaces, 3D surfaces
14:24 < kanzure> on an unrelated note, someone should do a commit tree visualization of reprap/makerbot and show version derivations
14:24 < kanzure> presumably you can get this data just by parsing the svn commits but there are various separate firmware versions/projects 
14:24 < kanzure> anyway, seeing that data would be useful
14:24 < QuantumG> idea for you: find a mechanical engineer to make a mecheng 101 tutorial using 3d printing.
14:25 < kanzure> why?
14:26 < QuantumG> cause open education is good.. and 3d printing is good.. and it seems the best thing you could teach with 3d printing (other than 3d printing) is mecheng
14:26 < QuantumG> mecheng textbooks include many "thought experiments" which would be a lot more relevant if you had the actual machine in front of you
14:26 < kanzure> i'm in a cranky mood because of all of this plastic fixation
14:27 < kanzure> i'll be better in a few minutes
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15:56 < QuantumG> Read my solution to TSA hell.. any volunteers? :) http://bit.ly/cJ8cFC
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16:16 < QuantumG> Oleg_Vinogradov-Fundamentals_of_Kinematics_and_Dynamics_of_Machines_and_Mechanisms-CRC_Press(2000).pdf http://free-books.dontexist.com/get?nametype=orig&md5=95ECDCD8A7BFC30F0FD66AB3D4FE0C50
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16:49 < industromatic> "mecheng textbooks include many "thought experiments" which would be a lot more relevant", Yes they would if you could printit out and crush test it, then tweak, crush, tweak, crush, tweak, crush....
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16:53 < QuantumG> and that's just statics
16:54 < kanzure> i think a lot of the ng
16:55 < kanzure> i think they should be taught milling and machining
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17:33 < JayDugger> QuantumG, I don't think your suggestion will work any better than on-line complaints.
17:33 < JayDugger> But it made me smile, so not wasted bits.
17:35 < QuantumG> getting to an actual lawsuit that you can win would be nice
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17:37 < kanzure> hi glytch 
17:37 < glytch> hi :)
17:37 < glytch> was just about to come pimp dnaqa.com and get some feedback
17:45 < glytch> people with 23andme.com data might wanna check this out. some of the more interesting forum posts i followed on 23andme.com was people asking questions about behavior/traits and listing a few snps or genes they were interested in that might have something to do with those traits. Then a lot of people would respond with their answer to the initial question along with their data for the snps in question. It's pretty obvious a 
17:45 < glytch> isn't a good place for that sort of thing since you have to add all the results up by hand, and each person answering has to go lookup their values for each snp.  DNAqa(dna questions & answers) solves that by letting you pose a question, along with the snps you wanna look at. and then people just answer. the site automatically looks at their genome and pulls in the values for everyone's snps. then starts grouping them by the
17:45 < glytch> answers and letting you see which values correspond to which answers for the question. ultimately i'd like it to just compare the entire genome of everyone that answers to automatically find the interesting snps/genes, but for now you have to specify which snps. 
17:46 < glytch> i've seen research groups and such doing little surveys and looking for patterns in the genome of the participants that fit their answers to questions, but the largest i've seen so far was like 1,200 genomes in a survey by craig venter(sp?). with dnaqa.com i hope the number of participants can be much larger while allowing anyone to ask any question their interested in. 
17:47 < glytch> also i've probably used the wrong terms here and there, definitely not a pro in this field :) this is my first bio related project in the process of learning 
17:51 < glytch> i need to make that pitch a little more succint :)
17:53 < glytch> basically it's for finding patterns in a set of snps in the scope of a question and it's answers...
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18:30 < kanzure> ok ben is asking for a list of projects that humanity+ should fund
18:31 < kanzure> i'll be assembling it over the next day or so
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18:38 < kanzure> oh god
18:38 < kanzure> he's suggesting opencog
18:38 < kanzure> fuck this
18:42 < kanzure> what do i do
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18:55 < kanzure> i should add http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v16/n9/full/nm0910-953.html to bit.ly/diybionews
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19:01 < kanzure> hi Bruns 
19:01 < Bruns> heu kanzure
19:01 < Bruns> hey*
19:02 < Bruns> d
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21:13 < kanzure> stalk: Luis E. Rodriguez <lrodriguez@kauffman.org>
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 11 00:00:07 2010