--- Log opened Tue Nov 16 00:00:08 2010 00:54 -!- killall-9 [~paulc@diana.null.ro] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:56 -!- flamt [~root@bas5-barrie18-2925348066.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:33 -!- genehacker [~notanemai@cpe-70-112-176-113.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:33 < archels> "As for the future, your task is not to forsee it, but to enable it." 03:37 -!- genehacker [~notanemai@cpe-70-112-176-113.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:44 -!- genehacker [~notanemai@cpe-70-112-176-113.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:51 < dbolser> how would you go about disenableing it? 03:55 -!- flamt [~root@bas5-barrie18-2925348066.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:57 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:07 -!- flamt [~root@bas5-barrie18-2925348066.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:08 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:23 -!- Redeemer [~lorddeeme@c-75-72-218-226.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:27 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:40 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 05:10 < Utopiah> GREEN FLOAT - a Floating City in the Sky : DigInfo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXbYRxl16SA 05:11 < Utopiah> http://www.shimz.co.jp/english/theme/dream/greenfloat.html 05:13 -!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 05:16 -!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:17 -!- shepazu [~schepers@EM114-48-57-87.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:20 < dbolser> http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/ 05:20 < dbolser> The Shadow Scholar 05:20 < dbolser> The man who writes your students' papers tells his story 05:39 < cluckj> :( 05:39 < cluckj> that's why participation in class and taking notes is like 40% of my students' grade 05:40 < archels> You evaluate their notes? 05:41 < cluckj> well, they're structured note-taking sheets with questions and stuff on them 05:42 < Utopiah> (sick number of comments) 05:42 < cluckj> yeah, I just finished reading through the main body, I'm not sure if I can handle reading through the comments 05:44 < archels> cluckj: Out of curiosity, what field? Bio? 05:44 < cluckj> science and technology studies 05:44 < klafka> this is prety great 05:44 -!- ybit2 [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45 < cluckj> archels, it's a social sciences discipline 05:45 < klafka> heh this is funny, it'd be much harder to do this in hard science graduate degrees 05:45 < klafka> although apparently it's very very commonly done in china 05:46 < cluckj> it's probably much harder where any original research is concerned 05:46 < klafka> yeah 05:47 < cluckj> and grading sucks just as much as taking tests or writing papers (unless you like writing papers) 05:47 < klafka> apparently china has publication requirements for masters programs, and there is a booming industry of people creating fake journals and writing fake articles which you can then pay to have your name put on them 05:47 < cluckj> and if you like writing papers, I will usually like reading them 05:47 < cluckj> oh nice 05:48 < klafka> yeah grading sucks a lot =\ 05:49 < cluckj> I do agree with the author of that article about not throwing students to the curb for intellectual dishonesty 05:49 < cluckj> it's the thing that infuriates me the most about teaching 05:50 < cluckj> I really enjoy teaching, and helping people learn, so it's just a very personal insult to me when students cheat 05:50 < klafka> i haven't gotten to that 05:51 < cluckj> I was TAing in the biology department at my university for a bit and one student turned in their lab notes in two different handwriting styles 05:51 < cluckj> when I got to the end of their notebook, I found someone else's name on the notes too 05:51 < klafka> hah wow 05:51 < archels> cluckj: Well, there's cheating by means of scribbling notes in 5pt font on a small piece of paper and smuggling it into the exam (which I have done numerous times, and don't consider unethical) 05:52 < klafka> how is that not unethical? 05:52 < archels> but having someone else write your paper for you with your name on it, that's a different matter entirely 05:52 < cluckj> I was furious, and the instructor wouldn't let me fail them, I was told to just "not give them credit" for the assignments that weren't theirs 05:52 < cluckj> archels that's different 05:52 < cluckj> I don't really have any assignments that require rote memorization of stuff 05:53 < cluckj> most of them center around 1) paying attention in class (which isn't too much to ask) 2) taking notes on what you are thinking about when reading the material and 3) showing me that you can synthesize the course materials together in some kind of coherent form 05:54 < archels> On my neurobiology course, we're allowed to bring in one (and only one) sheet of A4, handwritten. 05:54 < archels> Oh, and *no magnifying glass* (yes, he explicitly mentioned that). :) 05:54 < klafka> cluckj, yeah it's not really so much the instructors fault either 05:54 < cluckj> yeah, most of my undergrad courses allowed crib sheets like that 05:54 < klafka> well if you're a professor you probably know that though 05:54 < cluckj> my calculus 2 crib sheet was a beauty 05:54 < klafka> the tremendous amount of pressure most schools put on faculty to retain students 05:54 < klafka> it's fucking ridiculous 05:55 < cluckj> and the process of making a crib sheet is a learning process too! 05:55 < archels> cluckj: quite right. 05:55 < cluckj> yeah absolutely, the fact that students are paying a ridiculous amount of money makes the institution want to retain them 05:55 < cluckj> haha, I'm not a professor yet 05:55 < cluckj> I'm an advanced PhD student 05:56 < klafka> oh ok 05:57 < archels> I can't wait to do some TA-ing or actual teaching. 05:57 < cluckj> archels it's really fun sometimes 05:57 < archels> Don't think I would care enough to see a student cheating like this as a personal insult, though. 05:57 < archels> It's just a game--you try to catch them, they try not to get caught. 05:57 < cluckj> eh 05:58 < klafka> it undermines the entire point of teaching archels 05:58 < cluckj> I am *not* a policeman 05:58 < klafka> exactly 05:58 < archels> Well, you'll have to deal with it one way or another. 05:58 < archels> There are also online services that do automated fraud checking. 05:59 < archels> Used by plenty of teachers all over the world, afaik. 05:59 < Utopiah> can you actually teach or rather just help people alrady willing to learn in the first place? if the 2nd option then you can't feel bad about cheaters IMHO 05:59 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:59 < cluckj> by actually engaging with students I can figure out if they're really learning or not 05:59 < archels> cluckj: Which sounds like a very good method. 06:00 < klafka> Utopiah, what? 06:00 < klafka> how are you defining teaching? 06:00 < cluckj> it usually works itself out 06:00 < cluckj> the stuff I teach is pretty easy to learn if you pay attention 06:00 < Utopiah> I meant you can't coerce people to learn, you can eventually get them to memorize simple things under pressure but to me actual learning comes from a desire of the person 06:01 < cluckj> it's my damn job to make sure people can understand it 06:01 < cluckj> Utopiah yes, and that's why I still hand out failing grades 06:21 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:35 -!- Redeemer [~lorddeeme@c-75-72-218-226.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:40 < kanzure> looks like another 100kgarages/cloudfab/mfg.com http://makerfactory.com/ 06:46 -!- Redeemer [~lorddeeme@c-75-72-218-226.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46 < kanzure> livestream/aubrey de grey http://www.newamerica.net/events/2010/never_say_die 06:49 < archels> kanzure: Where at in the schedule? Panel I? 06:49 < archels> specifically Ana Maria Cuervo? 06:50 < kanzure> looks like panel 1 yes 06:52 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.6.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04 < superkuh> Now he's on. 07:21 < archels> Not enough money for four mikes eh. 07:31 -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:32 -!- codeshepherd [~Deepan@122.167.81.121] has quit [Quit: codeshepherd] 07:41 -!- twilightstar [~twilights@adsl-8-254-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:42 < twilightstar> hi 07:42 < archels> hello 07:43 < twilightstar> what is the main topic in this channel 07:43 < twilightstar> biotech? 07:45 < archels> There seems to be a high percentage of biologists here. 07:46 < dbolser> bio++ 07:46 < dbolser> archels: I think you'll get some info on your hunt for a school from ppl in htere 07:46 < dbolser> here 07:47 < klafka> lots of crossover though :P 07:47 < twilightstar> ok 07:47 -!- JaredWigmore [~JaredW@219-89-69-220.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:48 -!- JaredW [~JaredW@219-89-10-78.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:49 < dbolser> hey klafka 07:49 < dbolser> ;-) 07:49 < archels> I'm not hunting for a school per se, but it's good to know I'm among academics. :) 07:49 < kanzure> hi twilightstar 07:50 < klafka> :P 07:50 < twilightstar> hi kanzure 07:50 < kanzure> twilightstar: we talk about transhuman tech, human enhancement, manufacturing, diybio, open source hardware 07:50 < twilightstar> any one in the online masters at jhu? 07:50 < twilightstar> for biotech 07:59 -!- QuantumG [~qg@ool-18599bca.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:00 < archels> kanzure: Any progress on the channel registration? 08:01 < archels> heh, the laymen from the public asking questions all sound so nervous. 08:04 < kanzure> archels: no progress :( 08:05 < archels> Will nagging the opers help? 08:05 < archels> and/or spamming their mailboxes. 08:05 < kanzure> possibly 08:05 < kanzure> i'm really at a loss for how to proceed 08:06 < archels> What's the status so far? The request is basically in limbo, right? No yes, no no. 08:06 < kanzure> i talked with them recently (within the past month) and they said "oh to expediate the process also send an email to xyz", so i did, but it's probably a blackhole 08:07 < archels> mhrm, followup "dear sir/madam, sent mail, no reply, plz to be acknowledging" etc? 08:07 < kanzure> plz to be acknowledged 08:07 < kanzure> haha 08:07 < kanzure> that's an indian phrase isn't it? 08:07 < archels> I've no idea 08:07 < kanzure> "please be the following" or something 08:08 < archels> no hits for that +"native american" 08:09 < kanzure> ferrouswheel: what is vzillion 08:11 < kanzure> and why is ben goertzel "director of engineering" 08:11 < ferrouswheel> kanzure: heh, if i knew I'd tell you. 08:11 < archels> oh god is that a flash intro page. 08:13 < ferrouswheel> urgh yes. their spiel kind of gets lost in the delivery mechanism 08:13 < archels> oh, no, wait. That's their entire site. 08:18 < archels>