--- Log opened Wed Nov 17 00:00:08 2010
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06:17 < kanzure> genehacker: i thought the point was self-replication
06:18 < kanzure> live action RPing minecraft http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl36SsszqpY
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07:47 < memorex> Did anyone ever see on tedtv the presentation that was given by the scientist showing that robots can evolve?
07:48 < memorex> where they put a simulation of very basic functions they gave robots and put them in one giant enclosed environment and would either give positive reinforcement or no reinforcement at all for certain behaviors?
07:51 < archels> sure
07:55 < memorex> ....nice response. I was attempting to spark a discussion :(
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08:00 < kanzure> memorex: hod lipson
08:00 < memorex> ah, thats the guys name eh?
08:00 < memorex> thanks
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08:01 < memorex> I just thought it was neat how the basic rules of evolution in biology occurred in robots when they were, put in the wild kinda
08:01 < memorex> it really shows that life is a reaction of the environment etc.
08:03 < kanzure> ok
08:03 < memorex> ...
08:03 < memorex> m.s.
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08:08 < archels> great discussion
08:08 < archels> we should do this more often.
08:08 < archels> kanzure: Is the singularity list archive up somewhere? The official page only goes up to 2008 or so.
08:13 < kanzure> sl4 or singularity?
08:14 < archels> sing
08:14 < archels> cf. http://www.mail-archive.com/singularity@v2.listbox.com/
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08:18 < kanzure> yeah that should be up to 2010
08:19 < archels> Is it up to 2010 for you?
08:19 < kanzure> no
08:20 < kanzure> btw it's useless anyway
08:20 < kanzure> the entire mailing list
08:20 < archels> heh, you think?
08:20 < kanzure> yes i'm subscribed
08:20 < archels> The only discussion I saw since subscribing is Ben's psi nonsense.
08:21 < archels> I'm new to this whole mailing list thing though.
08:25 < kanzure> if you want to be subscribed to mailing lists i would recommend:
08:25 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio
08:25 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing
08:25 < kanzure> http://postbiota.org/mailman/listinfo/tt
08:31 < archels> I'm not affiliated with diybio in any way, so I'll skip that.
08:31 < archels> thanks for the ref to tt though, trying that out.
09:10 < kanzure> http://sciencepark.cc/2010/11/16/conversations-at-igem-2010-bangalore/
09:22 < kanzure> hah they are calling it BacillaFilla?
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09:33 < superkuh> http://2010.igem.org/Team:ArtScienceBangalore/DIY
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09:47 < kanzure> meetlog.txt has been under full revision control since the beginning so i hope you guys like
09:47 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/
09:47 < kanzure> git://diyhpl.us/srv/git/meetlog.git
09:47 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/plain/meetlog.txt
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09:59 < kanzure> bluh i need to figure out how to stalk the igem people properly / in bulk
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12:40 < archels> http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=2080&aid=-1
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12:57 < industromatic> Stalking again, eh kanzure?
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13:24 < kanzure> industromatic: no, i'm talking about http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog
13:29 < archels> god, the self-discipline this must require
13:29 < archels> kanzure, does my presence in your list mean that your fame will rub off on me?
13:41 < glytch> kanzure do you maintain that by hand?
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13:49 < memorex> So, I am going to Ecuador on a research trip this summer. Any suggestions on what specimen I should choose?
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14:07 < kanzure> archels: "rub off on you" eh?
14:07 < kanzure> glytch: yes :( but i do have some related scripts for processing it
14:09 < glytch> that's crazy. 
14:09 < glytch> what are you gonna do with all that?
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14:22 < kanzure> glytch: i generate graphs and track what i've forgotten to talk to you about
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14:28 < QuantumG> http://youtube.com/watch?v=HMx1xW2E4Gg
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14:32 < kanzure> memorex: if you go to ecuador, visit Alex Gakuru <gakuru@gmail.com> and Fernando Ortiz Serrano <tierraprieta@gmail.com>, 
14:32 < kanzure> -,
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16:23 < joshcryer> Kinect would be perfect for a cook robot.
16:23 < joshcryer> The main problem with cooking is basically keeping things clean.
16:24 < joshcryer> A cooking robot would primarily just mix ingredients and do timed steps.
16:25 < joshcryer> I think that will be my second goal after making a proper procedural CAD toolset.
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16:33 < joshcryer> Been watching the Willow Garage videos, it really does show that previrtualizing the environment and making virtual assumptions equates much more 'aware' robots.
16:34 < joshcryer> Having to "constantly" check things in your environment makes for some utterly slow robots that have to do a whole lot of on the fly calculations.
16:34 < joshcryer> And I reckon our brain isn't doing things like that. You sit in a room you have a good idea where everything is without having to continually process it.
16:36 < QuantumG> Kinect is pretty short sighted though
16:37 < QuantumG> objects need to be around 70cm away from it.
16:37 < joshcryer> Yeah not sure if you saw my IR video I linked here (you pinged out afterward).
16:37 < joshcryer> It's like a meter- ahh, 70 cm? I was close.
16:38 < joshcryer> My idea for a cooking robot would be hanging from a ceiling on tracks.
16:38 < joshcryer> It doesn't need legs and it doesn't need to get in the way of people on the floor.
16:38 < joshcryer> In fact it should be scared of people and just avoid them.
16:44 < joshcryer> So say you got something that needs relatively quick strring for 5 minutes until completiion, you gotta go to the restroom or catch the phone, the robot will descend and pitch in while you're away.
16:44 < joshcryer> Or, if you're bored because a commercial is on TV, you just walk in the kitchen and it'd tell you where it was in the steps and get out of your way.
16:45 < QuantumG> sounds about as commercially viable as the activities Willow Garage has their $400k PR2s doing.
16:46 < joshcryer> Sell it to McDonalds.
16:46 < joshcryer> (better yet start your own chain with the things and have only 1-2 employees that can feed hundreds and they mostly sit on their ass taking money)
16:47 < QuantumG> it's have to be able to replace 20 people to pay off in a year.. and there typically isn't even 20 people in a single store.
16:47 < QuantumG> even if it's a 5 year payoff, you'd need to be able to effectively replace 4 people.
16:47 < joshcryer> Robots don't have to be expensive.
16:48 < joshcryer> Once we have H+ they'll be a novelty worth the dirt they're made of. :P
16:48 < QuantumG> their $400k PR2 is the cheapest robot that has even been built (with similar capabilities)
16:48 < QuantumG> maybe the price could go down eventually..
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16:48 < pasky> you need to have glass walls and a lot of robot theming, imho that'd be the way to go with a fastfood chain :)
16:48 < joshcryer> IMHO the PR2 isn't specialized, it's general purpose.
16:49 < QuantumG> yes
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16:49 < QuantumG> the "automated McDonalds" concept has been around for a long time.. but people who think about it sensibly typically come to the conclusion that specialized hardware is the way to go.
16:49 < joshcryer> The specialized welding robots that do one task quick and well, they cost a lot of money, but in principle they should be cheap, it's just that there's very little demand for them.
16:50 < QuantumG> if you did it with general purpose robots, that'd be different.
16:50 < QuantumG> yes, I agree with you joshcryer.. in a way, general robots have the same problem as launch vehicles
16:50 < QuantumG> where's the market?
16:51 < QuantumG> oh, the market only exists if the units are cheap?
16:51 < pasky> it's the question of commodization and critical mass, and there aren't really any shortcuts for that
16:51 < QuantumG> ok, how do we make these things cheaper?  sell more of them?  ok, who to?
16:51 < pasky> well you need to just be patient )
16:51 < pasky> you cannot create a commodity from a nice product in a year; wait 30 years and it'sanother matter
16:52 < pasky> look at the PC
16:52 < QuantumG> Willow Garage's concept really is: we better start working on making these expensive robots do some impressive stuff, so people start thinking about applications that will drive sales.. cause that'll cause a mass market that will reduce costs.
16:54 < QuantumG> but yeah, I think the takeoff point is about $10k.
16:55 < joshcryer> I think the takeoff point is when the thing doesn't take 10 minutes to perform a trivial task like getting a beer.
16:55 < joshcryer> I've seen dogs do it in like 15 seconds.
16:55 < joshcryer> :P
16:55 < QuantumG> sure.. but that's not a price problem
16:57 < joshcryer> If I can get a $60 mutt that can do what a $10k thing can't do then I think I'll opt for the mutt. :P
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17:01 < QuantumG> yep, but when you can teach a robot how to put together furniture by demonstrating and using natural language and then say "ok, put together the rest of them", and it does so flawlessly and faster than a human, that'll be worth $10k 
17:02 < joshcryer> Yes, absolutely.
17:02 < joshcryer> But by then you'd have people complaining about robot rights.
17:03 < QuantumG> I really don't think we will if it's done the ROS way
17:04 < joshcryer> I haven't seen all of their videos, but their flying ones were damn impressive.
17:05 < joshcryer> If only PR2 could behave that ... well.
17:07 < QuantumG> sigh, I've watched all the Willow Garage videos.. :(
17:32 < joshcryer> Third robot job.
17:32 < joshcryer> Making a sewing robot.
17:32 < joshcryer> (convo in another channel made me think of it)
17:33 < joshcryer> There are in fact already automated sewing machines.
17:33 < joshcryer> But I don't know how capable they are.
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18:12 < industromatic> I've thought a sewing robot would have impact.
18:12 < joshcryer> Impact how so?
18:13 < joshcryer> No more third world labor making clothes? Maybe.
18:13 < joshcryer> If they didn't cost $500k each or something ridiculous.
18:14 < joshcryer> The automated sewing machines tend to be for things like matresses or shoes or other things that are mass produced.
18:15 < joshcryer> They don't appear to have any significant intelligence.
18:27 -!- JayDugger [~Jay_Dugge@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:27 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
18:28 < QuantumG> hey
18:29 < ybit_> hello
18:30 < JayDugger> Has neurofeedback come up for discussion in the past?
18:30 < joshcryer> GREETINGS AND SALUTATIONS
18:30 < JayDugger> If so, I'll check the logs.
18:30 < JayDugger> I thought it best to ask first, rather than chase wild geese.
18:32 < JayDugger> And, just for fun, http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/47055/high-frontier.
18:33 < JayDugger> Phil Eklund's game of bootstrapping space-based manufacturing, with rules available here.
18:34 < JayDugger> http://www.sierra-madre-games.com/conflict-simulations/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2010/11/HighFrontierLivingRules_11_13_10.pdf
18:36 < JayDugger> More sophisticated than you might expect, but less so than the MIT Space Logistics Project (http://spacelogistics.mit.edu).
18:36 < JayDugger> OTOH, you can play Eklund's game without MATLAB.
18:36 < industromatic> "don't appear to have any significant intelligence."  Right.  they'd need to be able to do clothes to have impact on sewing slavery.
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19:03  * joshcryer buys a personal robot 2
19:04  * joshcryer tells it to get him a glass of tea
19:04  * joshcryer WAITS 30 MINUTES
19:04 < joshcryer> heh
19:08 < joshcryer> not really knocking Willow Garage, they're awesome
19:08 < joshcryer> I just hope their business approach isn't going to sink them
19:08 < QuantumG> oh please.. more likely you'd spend that 30 minutes watching the rosvis output and cheering it on, then when you get the tea you'd be like "heh, I didn't really feel like tea."
19:09 < joshcryer> haha, well, yeah, if I had the money for one, yeah, probably, I'd fall into a self-delusion of justification for my pitiful investment >:P
19:11 < QuantumG> it's a shame links to individual comments don't work in Intense Debate
19:11 < QuantumG> http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1726/1#IDComment110091149  is awesome
19:11 < QuantumG> comment from John Powell
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19:14 < joshcryer> Nice.
19:14 < QuantumG> http://pastebin.com/UnDx7QFU copy
19:15 < QuantumG> people might care what they do if they start flying humans
19:24 < joshcryer> has jp patented the sand brick?
19:24 < joshcryer> it's a nifty idea
19:25 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-74-74-152-155.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
19:25 < QuantumG> yeah
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19:51 < QuantumG> http://www.gnu.org/s/libc/manual/html_node/Aborting-a-Program.html
19:51 < joshcryer> heh
19:51 < joshcryer> stallman
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19:54 < Ybit> Using webchat.freemode.net + iPhone isn't the way to go for your irc fix 
19:57 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.6.161] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:57 < joshcryer> whats it do?
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21:23 < kanzure> oof
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21:31 < kanzure> joshcryer: "proper procedural CAD toolset" means what to you? just wondering
21:32 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:33 < kanzure> QuantumG: re: "automated mcdonalds" there was a specific word for this back in the 60s(?) or earlier .. automatorium or something. it's in the logs.. somewhere.
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21:34 < QuantumG> automats
21:35 < QuantumG> earlier
21:35 < QuantumG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automat
21:36 < QuantumG> The automat was brought to New York City in 1912 and gradually became part of popular culture in northern industrial cities. Horn & Hardart was the most prominent automat chain.
21:36 < kanzure> spacelogistics.mit.edu talks about "interplanetary supply chain management" that's quite an impressive supply chain.. throughput 0/g a year^W^W^W ever
21:36 < kanzure> i suppose asteroids are a form of delivery mechanism
21:37 < kanzure> QuantumG: yep, automats.
21:39 < kanzure> oh that's right.. i got disillusioned with that because they were just glorified vending machines
21:39 -!- hesaid [~hesaid@c-1a05e155.15-10-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
21:39 < kanzure> not a cook-the-food-and-then-vend-machine-it
21:39 -!- hesaid [~hesaid@c-1a05e155.15-10-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:39 < QuantumG> yeah, backloaded from a kitchen
21:40 < QuantumG> kinda like a mechanical turk
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21:54 < futuresoon> isn't a checkout human kind of like a glorified vending machine
21:56 < QuantumG> dunno, my market has "do it yourself" checkout.
22:00 < joshcryer> kanzure, a procedural CAD toolset is CAD with a focus on generalizing object types, and iterating over possible permetuations of those object types. Internally all coffee cups and donuts would be the same, at some extreme end of a permutation, but they're clearly distinct from a practical viewpoint.
22:01 < joshcryer> God I remember seeing a video on automats when I was like 10.
22:01 < joshcryer> I thought "WHY ISN'T EVERYTHING LIKE THAT!!!"
22:02 < joshcryer> Obviously I had the same initial idea, that it was automated by robots. :(
22:02 < kanzure> joshcryer: that sounds like the term "parametric" in CAD
22:02 < kanzure> i'm not really sure what the difference is
22:02 < QuantumG> http://twtpoll.com/oqujgr
22:03 < joshcryer> kanzure, you want a bicycle, right? So you grab some sliders on a bicycle object, and pow, you can design ANY BICYCLE THAT HAS EVER EXISTED OR NEVER EXISTED.
22:13 < joshcryer> kanzure, from my POV there are maybe a thousand, or possibly a few tens of thousand objects in the world, everything we see is a mere varient.
22:14 < kanzure> ok.
22:15 < joshcryer> 85-90% of doors are probably dang rectangles with a hole in 'em for a doorknob. So from my POV a simple rectangle in Blender with a doorknob can represent 80-90% of all doors ever made. But that's a ridiculously simple (and probably made up) example.
22:15 -!- hesaid [~hesaid@c-1a05e155.15-10-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
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22:16 < joshcryer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_appliance
22:17 < joshcryer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_furniture_types
22:17 < joshcryer> Not that wikipedia is considered a wise in all things here, but I think it exhibits just how simple even our modern lives are.
22:20 -!- hesaid [~hesaid@c-1a05e155.15-10-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
22:20 < joshcryer> w/e though, you'll understand when I make it. :)
22:21 -!- niftyzero1_ [~niftyzero@dsl081-070-214.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
22:21  * fenn looks around at all the unfamiliar names
22:22 < fenn> just got back from dorkbot, playing around with openkinect 3d demo
22:22 < joshcryer> Nice.
22:22 < joshcryer> What did it do?
22:22 < fenn> it was literally 2 minute walk from my house
22:22 < fenn> it converts the camera view into a 3d scene which you can rotate around
22:23 < kanzure> hacker dojo or piss town?
22:23 < fenn> piss town :P
22:23 -!- Daeken [~Daeken@cpe-66-108-56-142.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:23 < fenn> daeken you got a kinect yet?
22:23 < Daeken> nah, not gonna get one any time soon most likely.
22:24 < QuantumG> http://www.ros.org/wiki/kinect_node
22:25 < fenn> i hope they make a smaller version eventually
22:25 -!- hesaid [~hesaid@c-1a05e155.15-10-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:25 < QuantumG> hmm.. there's accelerometers in it too?
22:26 < phryk> mhh when i got a smartphone a few weeks back i subscribed to the h+ rss feed
22:26 < fenn> supposedly
22:26 < phryk> why the hell are 2/3 of all posts top5/10 lists?!
22:26 < kanzure> phryk: the h+ rss feed? why? it's mostly crap
22:26 < kanzure> because that's what this month's theme is.. "top 5 of x"
22:26 < phryk> kanzure: yes!
22:26 < joshcryer> I wonder if you can use a mirror to shorten the Kinect's depth?
22:26 < phryk> ah
22:27 < kanzure> phryk: really i don't know why you subscribe to that feed
22:27 < kanzure> the blog is a disaster
22:27 < phryk> i don't know that either now...
22:27 < fenn> josh that's what i asked, about using lenses to change the range. apparently nobody had tried it
22:28 -!- glytch_ [~elise@pool-71-164-148-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:28 < phryk> kanzure: do you know any good rss feeds about transhumanism/biotech/bodyhacking?
22:29 < kanzure> actually, no.
22:29 < phryk> balls.
22:30 < joshcryer> just set up a bot to grab links from here
22:30 < joshcryer> they're usually on topic :P
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22:31 < phryk> and does that bot put out a feed?
22:32 < fenn> kurzweilai is not bad
22:32 < kanzure> kurzweilai is tom mccabe
22:32 < kanzure> hplusmagazine is tom mccabe
22:32 < kanzure> it's all awful
22:32 < fenn> huh
22:34 -!- hesaid [~hesaid@c-1a05e155.15-10-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
22:34 < joshcryer> phryk, hmm, can't find anything that does what I was suggesting, actually.
22:34 < kanzure> fenn: did you see this yesterday? it makes me weep http://hplusmagazine.com/editors-blog/problem-solved-new-h-magazine-project
22:34 < kanzure> also this http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2659/problemsolvednew.jpg
22:35 < kanzure> and this http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9625/donatehorangelogo.jpg
22:35 < fenn> yes yes
22:36 < joshcryer> The donate/thanks one is fucking racist and they are idiots for assuming people could make the connection. :P
22:36 < joshcryer> (yes I saw this before too but I didn't get a chance to comment)
22:36 < phryk> wahahahaha
22:36 < phryk> first picture is awesome
22:37 < phryk> at least as long as you don't realize they are serious
22:37 < jrayhawk> bryan why haven't you started the Transhumanist Institute for Anthropic Improvement yet
22:37 < kanzure> what's worse is that they are using the fact that they don't have money as an excuse to "do a good job once we get money"
22:37 < kanzure> in reality, that's not something worth giving money to..
22:37 < kanzure> jrayhawk: because nobody is pestering me nearly enough
22:37 < jrayhawk> *poke* *poke*
22:38 < phryk> sounds interesting
22:38 < phryk> what's it supposed to do/be?
22:38 < kanzure> jrayhawk: also, i know i'm not one to yap about PR, but i probably wouldn't use the wrod 'transhuman' in it, or even 'human enhancement'
22:38 < kanzure> "debian" doesn't say "linux" or "free software"
22:39 < kanzure> i think a generic name would be nice to have for ... various crazy projects, if there has to be an institute
22:40 < fenn> mumble grumble hatsune miku sharon apple kurwzeil was right http://www.switched.com/2010/11/13/3-d-hologram-hatsune-miku-sells-out-stadiums-japan/
22:40 < kanzure> phryk: i've been a pussy for the past few years about humanity+ and not just bypassing them
22:40 < kanzure> fenn: http://www.youtube.com/search?q=hatsune+miku also 
22:40 < kanzure> also try out zatsune miku
22:40 < joshcryer> Microcosm Foundation
22:40 < fenn> i'm surprised they allowed video of the concert
22:41 < kanzure> hatsune miku isn't .. uh.
22:41 < kanzure> you should just watch the youtube videos since they will be more informative than whatever the news is saying
22:41 < jrayhawk> effort spent in trying to convince the world at large that transhumanism isn't a dirty word is not necessarily wasted
22:41 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i don't care about the word itself, i want the results
22:42 < kanzure> or the procedural events leading up to results
22:42  * joshcryer claps
22:42 < jrayhawk> damnation, now i'll never find an acronym with which to mock SIAI
22:42 < kanzure> i don't want to be an alter-eliezer
22:43 < jrayhawk> well obviously you'd be an alter-vassar
22:43 < kanzure> he's a moron
22:43 < kanzure> have you ever met him
22:43 < kanzure> (i'm talking about vassar)
22:43 < jrayhawk> no
22:43 < kanzure> basically "transhumanism" is infected with a lot of people who have found a niche for some reason within this term
22:43 < joshcryer> I am glad we are all equally anti Eli.
22:44 < kanzure> unattached to productive progress on it
22:44 < fenn> zatsune is just bizarro hatsune?
22:44 < kanzure> now, there are lots of "good people" of course involved but uh.. the ability to make DVDs or whatever isn't going to be helpful with SENS research really
22:45 < kanzure> fenn: i'm trying to get the point across that hatsune miku isn't really a "managed trademark identity"
22:45 -!- hesaid [~hesaid@c-1a05e155.15-10-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:45 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i should call it "singularity institute"
22:46 < fenn> it's not?
22:46 < jrayhawk> haha
22:46 < fenn> maybe i'm missing the point
22:46 < fenn> is this all fan art?
22:46 < kanzure> fenn: no.. it's people who download the cracked voice synthesizer (vocaloid generator) and make up their own songs, draw some animation, and upload to youtube/whatever
22:46 < jrayhawk> the singularity institute for anthropic improvement would be fantastic, but unfortunately i think trademark law comes into play...
22:47 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i've always been kind of irked about there being a singularity institute that only focuses on ai or whatever
22:47 < fenn> so by no you mean yes..
22:47 < kanzure> anyway, why do i need a new organization?
22:47 < kanzure> fenn: i was saying "no" to "it's not?"
22:48 < jrayhawk> you should barge into SIAI and demand they make a bio and hardware arm for you to attach projects to
22:48 < kanzure> jrayhawk: can't i just route funding through Humanity+ and let them feel good about them "doing their part"?
22:48 < kanzure> jrayhawk: that's what i did with humanity+.. sort of
22:48 < kanzure> SIAI would do way too many risk analyses of just being associated with my name, let alone letting me carry out my projects
22:48 < jrayhawk> heehee
22:49 < fenn> wow zatsune isn't even in wikipedia
22:49 < joshcryer> What have you done to turn off SIAI Bryan?
22:50 < jrayhawk> SIAI is rather careful about what they say and do and Bryan is not.
22:50 < kanzure> i think my model of decentralized control/development is outside of what they hope the world is
22:51 < joshcryer> Ahh yes.
22:51 < joshcryer> They want to be Borg you want to be Culture.
22:51 < kanzure> are you high?
22:52 < joshcryer> :(
22:52 < fenn> are you high enough?
22:52 < joshcryer> The Culture would pwn The Borg.
22:52 < fenn> the borg got a poor portrayal imho
22:53 < joshcryer> The Borg were weakened by Voyager, but it's canon now that basically Borg is The Matrix.
22:53 < joshcryer> (for some subset of Borg anyway)
22:53 < phryk> siai wants controlled white shiny rooms, 'real lab' is my guess
22:53 < joshcryer> SIAI wants control, yeah.
22:53 < fenn> siai wants that pesky reality to go away
22:54 < joshcryer> I gave up when they wouldn't let me help them and were being snobs on their IRC channel.
22:54 < phryk> centralization sucks.
22:54 < joshcryer> (not that I could've helped but they didn't have to be snobs)
22:54 < kanzure> fenn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JGaQ3g8WU4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhjB1Pubr9s
22:56 < joshcryer> There's a new Culture novel!
22:56 < joshcryer> "Surface Detail" <3
22:56 < joshcryer> Didn't even know about it. :)
22:57 < kanzure> wow i seem to have incited siai hate
22:57 < fenn> he's jamming my queue, taking evasive action!
22:57 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i'm not sure that using Humanity+ to receive donations is a good idea on my part
22:58 < kanzure> perhaps it looks too sketchy?
22:58 < kanzure> or is there some other more strategic reason i should have my own non-profit rather than the two million others?
22:58 < jrayhawk> well, so long as you can align your goals of doing something with their goals of prestige
22:59 < kanzure> why does that matter? "Hi there, I have someone giving me $100,000, can you guys take the check and give me access to that account? kthx"
23:00 < jrayhawk> well, everything's going to have to go through the board, so it's just a matter of whether or not you can trust their motivations to be desirable to your goals
23:01 < kanzure> "everything's going to have to go through the board" really? i thought that was just because h+ was incompetent
23:01 < kanzure> is that some sort of 501c3 thing
23:02 < jrayhawk> They open themselves up to liability if things aren't kept track of; they can't just hand money out to whomever they like willy-nilly and hope nothing bad happens.
23:05 < kanzure> fenn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC7_A7MUf34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYzwznQbPGg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-y-jhTnb2A 
23:05 < kanzure> fenn: so yeah, while the original software developers are probably trying to hold on to their trademarks or whatever.. that's not what's happening
23:08 < kanzure> jrayhawk: that's a good point, i've encountered sentiments like that already
23:09 < kanzure> jrayhawk: what really annoys me is where tom talks about personal manufacturing, diybio, as if he thinks they are good things, but then fearmongers the board on the teleconference calls about how "FDA regulations would totally prevent us from conducting basic diybio projects"
23:09 -!- nchaimov [~cowtown@c-71-59-157-3.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:09 < kanzure> anyway, i've bought your argument :P
23:09 < jrayhawk> That's probably true; the FDA is really unpleasant to work with or around.
23:10 < kanzure> federal death administration
23:10 < jrayhawk> that said, h+ is the best place to centralize enough effort to do so at the moment
23:10 < kanzure> what? 
23:10 < jrayhawk> until someone makes a braver organization
23:13 < kanzure> okay. i don't think i'll go with TAIA though
23:13 < jrayhawk> TIAI
23:13 < fenn> TIIA?
23:13 < jrayhawk> TA III: die TA die
23:14 < kanzure> Human Enhancement Project then i get hoards evangelion fans?
23:14 < kanzure> *hoards of
23:14 < fenn> whordes
23:14 < futuresoon> anyone following lepht anonym?
23:14 < kanzure> futuresoon: you should ignore lepht
23:15 < futuresoon> ignore in a technical sense or ignore in reality
23:15 < kanzure> what
23:15 < kanzure> is the difference?
23:15 < fenn> lepht is more of a liability than anything
23:15 < kanzure> lepht is a bumbling moron who has a sick masochist need to cut herself and subsequently store subcutaneous shit
23:15 < futuresoon> i really don't know who or what left is other than that he/she/it is stagefrightened but spins a good yarn about a sixth sense
23:16 < fenn> umwhat?
23:16 < futuresoon> lepht rather
23:16 < kanzure> futuresoon: lepht will be giving a talk at CCC in the near future iirc..
23:17 < futuresoon> yeah but all its tweetybirds say that it's scared about that
23:17 < fenn> oh, right, "a sixth sense"
23:17  * fenn is currently being infriltrated by synthetic jpop
23:17 < kanzure> sorry bout that
23:18 < futuresoon> jpop is that japanese or something?
23:18 < kanzure> a lot of the hatsune stuff is really depressing. probably a result of teenies having way too much time on their hands to play with voice synthesizers and video editors
23:18 < futuresoon> hatsune looks phonetically japanese
23:18 < kanzure> yes jpop is japanese pop
23:19 < kanzure> hatsune miku is a weird internet phenomenon involving "vocaloids" and voice synthesizers for pitch-perfect songs
23:20 < futuresoon> vocoder?
23:20 < fenn> i like the "synthetic life" playing in the background http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC7_A7MUf34
23:21 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocaloid
23:23 < futuresoon> i like imogen heap, hide and seek\
23:23 -!- JaredW [~JaredW@219-89-69-220.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:23 < fenn> i hate that song
23:23 < fenn> it's just crap compared to most everything else she's done, she admits it and wonders why people like it
23:23 -!- JaredW [~JaredW@219-89-69-220.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:24 < fenn> anyway a vocoder is not the same thing
23:24 < futuresoon> i like it for only ONE REASON!!!!
23:24 < fenn> vocaloid is basically a midi instrument with some extra control over what syllable is said
23:24 < futuresoon> because SNL did a great sketch based on it
23:25 < fenn> oh, uh, they still do television?
23:25 < kanzure> Saturday Night Livestreaming
23:26 < kanzure> jrayhawk: is debian a 501c3, and if so, how does their organizational structure (what little i know about it or see about it- esp. with package maintainers and elected positions) have to do with the board members?
23:27 < futuresoon> if i had to guess very little
23:28 < futuresoon> the obama campaign had little to do with the group moderators on my.barackobama.com
23:28 < joshcryer> I'm having such a difficult time following what this conversation is.
23:28 < futuresoon> yeah but at least you're paying attention now. YOU'RE WELCDOME
23:28 < futuresoon> -D
23:28 < futuresoon> is that a cyclops smile? or a subtracted capital d... the world may never know
23:29 -!- nchaimov [~cowtown@c-71-59-157-3.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:29 < joshcryer> I thought you were wecolming me. :(
23:31 < futuresoon> it's a wink
23:34 < kanzure> saki/mahjong takes itself way too serious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P6U3LRMFAY
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23:38 < joshcryer> So, while we're on the topic of whatever random shit we're thinking of, I'm thinking Machinima is the future of moving media.
23:39 < joshcryer> Right now it's garbage, all of it, but eventually we'll be able to replace highly paid actors, and indeed, the whole movie / TV show industry with basement dwelling anti-social freaks who would make absolutely amazing shows.
23:40 < fenn> thanks for the observation, ramona kurzweil
23:41 < kanzure> we all know ray went to the future and had a schizophrenic attack
23:41 < fenn> i moved into a ventilation duct, does it still count as a basement?
23:41 < kanzure> ramona is his split personality that was created to deal with the issues
23:41 < joshcryer> Don't take that as an insult.
23:41 < fenn> i was hoping to be part of your future televised revolution
23:42 < joshcryer> I think that the most anti-social freaks (like myself) are going to have a lot more to contribute, since they have a lot of free time and nothing to express it on.
23:42 < joshcryer> Also, you were just bragging about leaving your house earlier so you don't count. :)
23:42 < fenn> touche
23:42 < fenn> i recognized 60% of the antisocial freaks in the room
23:43 < joshcryer> kanzure, heh, that's no joke, there was a documentary where he basically admitted as much. She was his female ego.
23:46  * joshcryer listens to Trend on TSS.
23:46 < joshcryer> Trent rather
23:46 -!- futuresoon [~Xeones@cpe-66-108-47-84.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:48 < kanzure> i hate the name game
23:48 < kanzure> jrayhawk: special technology institute?
23:50 < joshcryer> Would be appropriate for where we are at technology-wise.
23:51 < joshcryer> ("special" joke that only people with a childish mindset would get)
23:51 < kanzure> haha just hijack the wta nam since they aren't using it anymore :x
23:51 < kanzure> *name
23:53 < kanzure> oh man.. http://www.globalforesight.org/page/Technology+and+Innovation
23:53 < kanzure> http://www.globalforesight.org/page/Scientific+and+Research
23:56 < joshcryer> So what is jrayhawk wanting to do? Start a non-profit?
23:56 < kanzure> joshcryer: i'm not sure you've been following the conversation
23:56 < kanzure> jrayhawk is suggesting that i do that.
23:57 < joshcryer> kanzure, OK, it's obviously a continuation of a conversation not in my current log.
23:57 < joshcryer> He poked you and you started talking, heh.
23:57 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/logs/2010-11-17.log
23:58 < joshcryer> Oh I guess the "nobody is pestering me nearly enough" is the key to the whole thing.
--- Log closed Thu Nov 18 00:00:07 2010