--- Log opened Wed Nov 24 00:00:08 2010
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07:02 < kanzure> holy hell look at the spam https://twitter.com/meidesign
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07:59 < kanzure> oh it's an anagram for charles
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08:16 < archels> yes!
08:16 < archels> :)
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08:28 < kanzure> hi Nebososo 
08:33 < Nebososo> hi
08:37 < kanzure> what's up?
08:39 < Nebososo> Trying to find out more about emotiv EPOC on Linux :p.
08:42 < archels> no battery meter for you!
08:42 < archels> (afaik. Daeken?)
08:51 < kanzure> Nebososo: lookup 'emokit' on github
08:51 < Nebososo> I will, thanks, kanzure
09:00 < archels> oh, sorry, I thought that was understood.
09:00 < archels> also #emokit, but it has been rather dead.
09:02 < Nebososo> I'll see what I can find, archels.
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09:07 < charl> ack
09:07 < charl> Freenode is doing funny stuff.
09:07 < charl> < archels> Nebososo: Essentially, Daeken hacked the encryption, and someone named skadge laid the beginnings of a library. It's not very plug-and-play, but I think you can at least access the raw sensor data.
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09:08 < kanzure> "hacked the encryption" -> actually, just found the encryption key
09:08 < archels> Well, reverse engineered it.
09:09 < Nebososo> Interesting enough...
09:17 < Nebososo> I have to go now, thanks for the general directions, everyone.
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09:22 < kanzure> alternative 23andme code: 8YGK7C
09:22 < kanzure> i think they got overloaded
09:25 < kanzure> hm.. http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/hydrogen-peroxide-as-mouthwash.html
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09:37 < kanzure> hackerspacesg is confusing.. is "Wong Meng Weng" the same person as "Meng Weng Wong"?
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10:58 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/nanoengineer-dev
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11:08 < ybit> hrm
11:09 < ybit> i bought the kit
11:09 < ybit> some secret agency somewhere will now develop a virus to attack my genetic deficiencies ;)
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11:23 < archels> How much of the genome do they sequence, anyway?
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11:34 < kanzure> archels: they aren't sequencing the genome really
11:35 < kanzure> they are using illumina plates/array to do dna hybridization tests to figure out which SNP you have at a particular location (rs id number)
11:36 < kanzure> wait, are they doing dna hybridization? or something else
11:42 < archels> rs being?
11:43 < kanzure> all of the chromosome locations for snps are recorded with an rs id number
11:43 < kanzure> which you'll see in datasets like dbSNP from NCBI
11:44 < kanzure> i forget what it stands for
11:46 < kanzure> hackerspaces hackathon for membership management http://blog.hackerspaces.org/2010/11/22/announcing-the-opendoor-hackathon/
11:46 < archels> aha
11:46 < archels> So how many SNPs do they scan for?
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11:53 < archels> kanzure: Looks like DNA chips.
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13:03 < archels> kanzure: Seen http://www.illumina.com/documents/products/datasheets/datasheet_infiniumhd.pdf ?
13:06 < kanzure> iirc 23andme scans for about 1000 SNPs?
13:07 < archels> I'm not sure
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13:25 < kanzure> hi infomorph.
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14:09 < kanzure> hi QuantumG, hi r0y 
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14:12 < QuantumG> hey
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14:45 < kanzure> sarrus linkage http://blog.makerbot.com/2009/12/12/beautiful-makerbot-printable-sarrus-linkage/
14:50 < Noahj> that's awesome! 
14:50 < Noahj> I'm still always put off by how many steel parts are in things like that 
14:51 < Noahj> but it's getting better 
14:51 < Noahj> erm, I think that "always" was unnecessary 
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16:38 < kanzure> via lee nelson re: ne-1
16:38 < kanzure> http://machine-phase.blogspot.com/
16:39 < qgqg> saw that
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16:39 < kanzure> QuantumG: did you also see http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer
16:40 < QuantumG> cool.
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17:48 < kanzure> what? http://www.somewhereville.com/blognano/dgallis_nanogallery_16_large.jpg
17:48 < kanzure> that was from http://www.somewhereville.com/?page_id=10
17:49 < kanzure> gears http://www.somewhereville.com/blognano/dgallis_nanogallery_14_large.jpg
17:49 < kanzure> well more like "spinning disc things"
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18:04 < QuantumG> stuff you can't build but can happily design
18:09 < kanzure> heh
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18:12 < QuantumG> ya need to design two parts that fit together, and only fit together if they are both "perfect".. and when they're combined they're big enough or have some sticky property that allow them to be separated from a sea of malformed parts.
18:12 < QuantumG> I believe this is called "chemical engineering"
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18:15 < kanzure> well, more specifically, it's the sub-discipline of self-assembly and nanoscience
18:16 < kanzure> (seriously, "self-assembly" is googleable)
18:16 < QuantumG> the selection process is the point I was making
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18:30 < memorex> kanzure: any idea where i can find free online books for download
18:30 < memorex> im having some trouble
18:32 < QuantumG> http://free-books.dontexist.com/
18:32 < memorex> thank you
18:36 < kanzure> heh. also gigapedia, but free-books.dontexist.com (libgenesis) is what i would suggest
18:39 < memorex> yeah it didnt pull up what i wanted
18:39 < QuantumG> you often won't find what you want on that site.. but if you look, you might find what you need.
18:40 < superkuh> gigapedia registration is closed again.
18:40 < memorex> fuuuu
18:41 < memorex> im looking for children science fiction books for my cousin
18:41 < memorex> its his birthday and I am getting him a kindle and im going to put some books he would like on there
18:41 < kanzure> oh there's a torrent of 14,000+ scifi books out there
18:42 < memorex> yeah I think I should try and find it
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18:50 < kanzure> hi fitzsim 
18:50 < fitzsim> hi kanzure 
18:51 < kanzure> logs: http://gnusha.org/logs/
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18:53 < kanzure> hi JayDugger1 
18:53 < fitzsim> does Lee hang out here too?
18:53 < JayDugger1> Good evening, all.
18:54 < fitzsim> kanzure: just wanted to let you know about some NE-1 patches you may find useful
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18:56 < fitzsim> kanzure: there are a bunch of patches for building against up-to-date versions of dependencies in http://fitzsim.org/packages/NanoEngineer-1-1.1.1.12-0.3.fc12.src.rpm
18:56 < fitzsim> kanzure: are you working on a Red Hat-based distribution?
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19:04 < JayDugger1> The 23andMe discount code "48DRPU" definitely works.
19:04 < JayDugger1> I just used it to buy my girlfriend's Christmas present.
19:04 < JayDugger1> As of today, I can yet download my raw data from 23andMe.
19:05 < JayDugger1> By 01 January at the latest, I should know whether the current promotion permits the download of raw data.
19:07 < JayDugger1> The promotion requires a 12-month, auto-renewing, subscription to their update service.
19:07 < kanzure> fitzsim: i'm on debian
19:07 < JayDugger1> This costs $60/year.
19:08 < kanzure> fitzsim: where did the patches in that .rpm come from?
19:08 < kanzure> fitzsim: lee sometimes hangs out here.. not lately though
19:08 < kanzure> fitzsim: i have some funny stories about lee :) sometimes the simplest solutions tend to elude him
19:09 < kanzure> heh: http://google.com/search?q=technologiclee+nanoengineer
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19:18 < fitzsim> kanzure: I wrote the patches as part of getting NE-1 building on Fedora 13
19:19 < fitzsim> kanzure: if you want to extract them on Debian you can use: rpm2cpio | cpio -idv
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19:25 < kanzure> fitzsim: i'll take a look
19:27 < kanzure> debian notes: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/compile_nanoengineer
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19:29 < kanzure> lee's notes: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/NE1InstallScriptFragment
19:30 < kanzure> Redeemer: i sent you an email re: hotels
19:31 < kanzure> fitzsim: i'm not familiar with the rpm format but is there a set of .diff files in there somewhere?
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19:32 < kanzure> jrayhawk: you wouldn't happen to also be a redhat fanatic would you
19:35 < kanzure> peculiar reply to my ne-1 announcement http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/501d9f84ecd95f56 someone's really using this on a daily basis?
19:37 < kanzure> i don't see how stl files would help for anything on the order of 100k+ atoms
19:37 < QuantumG> you should reply with "patches welcome"
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19:39 < fitzsim> kanzure: yeah, a .src.rpm file contains the spec file which has build and installation rules, the original source tarball, and a bunch of .patch files that are applied during the RPM build process
19:39 < fitzsim> kanzure: are you able to apt-get install rpm2cpio?
19:40 < kanzure> it was already installed (stuff like this happens often)
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19:42 < fitzsim> kanzure: are you able to extract the patch set?
19:42 < kanzure> was that what it is? i just saw lots of binary data flash before my eyes
19:43 < fitzsim> you have to pipe the output to cpio
19:43 < kanzure> oh i wonder why i didn't see the files
19:43 < kanzure> ok i see cpio created the files
19:43 < fitzsim> have a look at NanoEngineer-1.spec
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19:44 < kanzure> ok i see 
19:44 < kanzure> patch10 and patch11 are things that were updated recently in the upstream repo actually
19:44 < kanzure> wait did you submit all of these to them?
19:44 < fitzsim> no
19:44 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/log
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19:45 < kanzure> check out the 2009-07-10 commit, which seems to be related to patch10 and patch11 in NanoEngineer-1.spec
19:45 < kanzure> uh in particular commit 21619af5d41eec4436619a7a05cfe42989cc4dc9
19:45 < kanzure> ok so i guess these were never included
19:46 < fitzsim> yeah, that's just a small language change for newer versions of Python, I'm not suprised the patches would be similar
19:46 < kanzure> there's a quickly growing and phantom todo list for ne-1
19:47 < kanzure> first there's server infrastructure stuff like snapshots/package building/releases, then epydoc, pylint, etc.
19:47 < kanzure> then actually getting the packages to build and uh, work
19:48 < kanzure> i'm p. sure there's some auto-deb/rpm packaging scripts in there somewhere
19:48 < fitzsim> are you working on making the Nanorex Bugzilla public?
19:49 < kanzure> yeah, they were hosting it somewhere private and either the hosting company will send me a backup or i'll write a spider and convert it to something that doesn't suck
19:49 < kanzure> i'd really like to use http://bugseverywhere.org/ but it's not quite stable yet :( (keeps bug state in the git repo under .be/)
19:50 < kanzure> likewise for their mediawiki installation.. http://diyhpl.us/nanoengineer is actually an ikiwiki created out of nanoengineer.git
19:50 < kanzure> i'm not sure if mark will go for migrating the mediawiki content to ikiwiki or not
19:50 < kanzure> but i really like the idea of keeping everything under nanoengineer.git
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19:55 < fitzsim> kanzure: neat, I've wanted something like bugseverywhere.org ever since Monotone was released
19:55 < kanzure> unfortunately the BE developers don't believe in release versioning or stable releases or something :(
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19:57 < fitzsim> hmm, well hopefully the idea will catch on anyway
19:57 < fitzsim> in the meantime, yeah, running a Bugzilla server isn't trivial I've been told
19:57 < pasky> if you like distributed bugtracking, you might find fossil interesting
19:58 < kanzure> http://fossil-scm.org/ right
19:58 < QuantumG> running a bugzilla server is trivial
19:59 < kanzure> i'm not sure bugzilla is a good idea in general, sysadmin nonsense aside
19:59 < QuantumG> we use trac at work.. combined wiki/bug tracker.. it's more simple than bugzilla
20:00 < QuantumG> integrates with revision control, etc
20:00 < kanzure> fitzsim: http://ikiwiki.info/
20:00 < kanzure> fitzsim: for some of the repos on diyhpl.us, when you push new commits, the post-update hooks fire and ikiwiki rebuilds the relevant pages
20:01 < kanzure> i'm not a big fan of mediawiki or wikis that decided to totally ignore version control systems
20:01 < fitzsim> nice
20:01 < pasky> if BE's first bulletpoint is not way oversimplified, i think it's really misguided; imho bugs and content should not live at a single branch even though it's tempting as immediate idea - you get into immense headaches since you _will_ find that you should really make changes to some bugs way too late after all the commits are pushed out etc.; fossil seems much more sensible in this regard, but then again, i like git
20:02 < kanzure> pasky: if you need to change a bug then you should commit your change
20:03 < kanzure> this way bugs have revisions stored too
20:03 < kanzure> fenn: are you alive
20:05 < fitzsim> kanzure: are you administering diyhpl.us?
20:05 < kanzure> fitzsim: yes. jrayhawk is also a meta-sysadmin i guess
20:06 < kanzure> other projects: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/
20:06 < kanzure> the reprap repos are kind of cluttering up the screen at the moment but i'll fix that soon
20:06 < kanzure> other items of interest are skdb.git (apt-get for hardware) and meetlog.git
20:07 < kanzure> also lolcad.git 
20:08 < fitzsim> kanzure: so whatever you use as a bug tracker will be hosted there too?
20:08 < kanzure> right
20:08 < kanzure> that's the idea
20:08 < fitzsim> makes sense
20:09 < kanzure> diyhpluswiki.git is a good example of ikiwiki integration.. http://diyhpl.us/wiki is the html-generated output
20:09 < kanzure> haha jrayhawk edited my realtime typing typos (i haven't looked at recentchanges in a while)
20:15 < jrayhawk> they made things hard to read :mad:
20:20 < kanzure> well, yes :(
20:20 < kanzure> jrayhawk: can you play the role of piny public relations
20:20 < kanzure> also suggestions for what to do with all these patches from fitzsim's rpm would be hot
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20:26 < jrayhawk> bleargh. i should write a useful introduction
20:27 < fitzsim> kanzure: have you successfully built NE-1 yet?
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20:34 < kanzure> fitzsim: a while back, not in the last month.. guess i should get around to that :)
20:34 < fitzsim> kanzure: ok, I would just use my patches as a guide for when the build gets stuck
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20:40 < kanzure> alright mark! :) http://groups.google.com/group/nanoengineer-dev/msg/e407189995727a31
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21:04 < kanzure> stalk: yohko hatada
21:05 < kanzure> hm http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/yohko-hatada/b/806/ab1
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21:09 < kanzure> hi Ian_Daniher 
21:09 < kanzure> so, generating/rendering BOMs for electronics projects
21:09 < Ian_Daniher> hey kanzure 
21:09 < kanzure> parse schematic file -> get out BOM ?
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21:09 < Ian_Daniher> me:  know what would be awesome, and slightly related to SKDB?
21:10 < Ian_Daniher> an electronics bill of materials creator
21:10 < Ian_Daniher> that a) worked with GIT Bryan:  agreed. me:  and b) plugged in with findchips and friends to figure out the best suppliers and the best pricepoints
21:10 < kanzure> what's findchips? i'm more familiar with octopart and digikey
21:10 < kanzure> octopart is a search engine on top of electronics datasheets that has slightly parameterized data
21:10 < Ian_Daniher> findchips is an aggregator like octopart
21:10 < Ian_Daniher> it's simpler
21:10 < kanzure> uh. okay.
21:10 < kanzure> simpler interface?
21:10 < kanzure> btw i have octopart.py in skdb.git somewhere
21:11 < kanzure> i was using the octopart api but i don't know where i was going with it
21:11 < kanzure> basically people have to write down what parts they are using.. i don't see a way around this
21:11 < kanzure> now, most people use spreadsheets, so a spreadsheet-to-bom is doable, but i don't see how a BOM is much different from a spreadsheet?
21:11 < Ian_Daniher> it's not, really
21:11 < Ian_Daniher> most people I know use google docs for BOMs
21:11 < Ian_Daniher> or vendor-specific tools
21:11 < kanzure> you mean a spreadsheet on google docs?
21:12 < Ian_Daniher> yup
21:12 < Ian_Daniher> anyway, vendor-specific tools are great for larger companies, but one of the advantages of being a startup is that you're supposed to be nimble
21:12 < kanzure> basically people have to write down what parts they are using.. i don't see a way around this
21:13 < kanzure> elevenarms (who comes around every once in a while in here) wrote some javascript where users can browse to a vendor's site and then import the product into a BOM back on another window/page
21:13 < Ian_Daniher> and a FOSS BOM manager which constantly checked pricepoint of supplies at various quantities and various vendors would be awesome
21:13 < kanzure> what does a BOM manager do
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21:16 < fenn> it retweets deal alerts~
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21:17 < Ian_Daniher> kanzure: keeps your BOM in order, shares it with other people, etc
21:18 < kanzure> what
21:18 < fenn> anyone have access to this article? http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=5DC616A3740BFE7B23C25262F2502723.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=1816720
21:18 < kanzure> this doesn't sound BOM specific really
21:19 < fenn> i had a BOM on google docs recently, it was somewhat painful
21:19 < fenn> much rather just put a .csv in git
21:19 < kanzure> fenn: http://groups.google.com/group/getarticles but they will post the pdf to scribd instead of somewhere convenient
21:19 < fenn> although some way to specify structured dependencies (order this AND this else that)
21:19 < kanzure> i think .csv is a pretty good structure
21:20 < Ian_Daniher> agreed
21:20 < kanzure> i don't see complicated abstract logic trees in BOMs often
21:20 < Ian_Daniher> but it's a pain to manually track down vendors 
21:20 < kanzure> well either you've built it and know what to buy or you don't
21:20 < fenn> why scribd?
21:20 < kanzure> http://octopart.com/somehow_buy?vendor=atmel&chip_id=54091491410
21:20 < Ian_Daniher> that doesn't account for the high price volatility of silicon components
21:20 < fenn> can i just request that they not do that?
21:21 < kanzure> fenn: sure try asking
21:21 < kanzure> fenn: i dunno why they like scribd so much anyway
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21:21 < fenn> heh the requester is already on getarticles
21:21 < Ian_Daniher> kanzure: that'd be cool, yeah
21:21 < kanzure> mostly getarticles is cory tobin and rss-wunderkid aaron swartz
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21:22 < memorex> FUUUUCK
21:22 < memorex> DAMN YOU BOOKS
21:22 < kanzure> Ian_Daniher: there's two ways i can see that going down
21:22 < kanzure> Ian_Daniher: one, a company that specifically takes in a BOM and somehow magically handles an optimization of what to order and from where
21:22 < kanzure> and then slowly replaces "order from multiple vendors" with their own deals as they can manage it
21:22 < kanzure> two, skip the company part and just write a web scraper/spider that can submit forms on multiple vendor websites
21:23 < Ian_Daniher> two would be neat
21:23 < kanzure> i.e. "buy part xyz from sparkfun" -> it goes off and fills out the form and buys it for you from sparkfun.com
21:23 < Ian_Daniher> mhm
21:23 < kanzure> the problem is that writing scrapers/form parsers like that isn't really scalabe, fun, or elegant
21:23 < fenn> 'from sparkfun' kinda makes it pointless though?
21:23 < kanzure> presumably edic or ebxml was supposed to solve that but they all got caught up in SOAP and B2B masturbation
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21:23 < kanzure> fenn: bad example. i think "from digikey" is also pointless?
21:24 < fenn> yes, the idea is to specify as little as possible
21:24 < kanzure> oh i thought you meant that sparkfun is already an aggregator (not an oem)
21:24 < kanzure> well sure
21:24 < fenn> or rather, as loose as possible (not quite the same thing)
21:24 < kanzure> but i mean once it finds out that it wants to use sparkfun, to have the interfaces to go do that
21:24 < kanzure> now, it would be spectacularly cool to convince sparkfun (et al.) to use our super-spectacular server protocol
21:24 < kanzure> but that won't happen
21:25 < kanzure> (as it turns out, elevenarms has sparkfun contacts)
21:25 < fenn> meh, just making  a plan would be a huge step for me
21:25 < kanzure> "1. buy this from these goons" ?
21:25 < fenn> "2. ???"
21:25 < kanzure> huh?
21:25 < kanzure> wait and pray they didn't fuck up your order
21:26 < fenn> http://memegenerator.net/
21:26 < kanzure> wow mark just got the ne-1 bugzilla backup
21:26 < kanzure> i did not expect codesion to actually give him a backup of it
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21:28 < fenn> bugzilla is useful data yes/no/maybe?
21:28 < kanzure> thousands of bug reports for ne-1
21:29 < kanzure> he was paying for it to be hosted somewhere O_o so i figure i should put a stop to that
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21:33 < kanzure> fenn: have you clicked around in nanoengineer.git yet? http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/tree/tags/cad/
21:34 < kanzure> also http://groups.google.com/group/nanoengineer-dev even if you'll never read it
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21:38  * fenn makes a note in his irclogs
21:40 < kanzure> for pretties: http://nanoengineer-1.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=50
21:40 < kanzure> http://www.somewhereville.com/?page_id=10
21:41 < kanzure> apparently mark was the one who funded the "nanofactory animation" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqyZ9bFl_qg
21:54 < kanzure> fenn: i was also hoping you'd have some clever snark about http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/log/
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21:55 < kanzure> oops sorry i must have had a brainlapse.. i recall your snarks from the other day actually
21:56 < fenn> nice dna poster
21:56 < fenn> (somewhereville)
21:57 < kanzure> yeah i didn't know about nanorex/paul rothemund
21:57 < fenn> huh?
21:57 < kanzure> all this structural DNA origami stuff that nanorex/ne-1 is talking about?
21:57 < fenn> i bet i could prove otherwise, but i'm too lazy to do so
21:57 < kanzure> mark paid paul to go do some dna origami stuff with ne-1 in winfree's lab
21:58 < kanzure> cite: bottom of http://www.nanoengineer-1.com/content/
21:58 < fenn> i think it's funny that your journal consists entirely of git commit messages
21:58 < kanzure> "After learning about our plans to develop a DNAO module for NE1, Dr. Rothemund invited me and my daughter to visit the Winfree Lab at Caltech to learn about scaffolded DNA origami first hand"
21:58 < kanzure> "He wanted to share the experience of designing, fabricating and imaging our own design. We jumped at the opportunity and soon after we arrived on campus to begin working with Paul. My daughter and I kept a detailed journal of what we did and published it (with photos) on the NE1 wiki"
21:59 < kanzure> oh fooey winfree offered me a job a few years ago.. i should stop by his lab while i'm on campus next month shouldn't i :x
21:59 < fenn> yeah that's been on the nanorex site as long as i've been aware of it
21:59 < kanzure> huh? you said "but i'm too lazy to do so"
21:59 < kanzure> er i should have quoted "i bet i could prove otherwise"
22:00 < fenn> i mean i could probably find some instance of you talking about nanorex/rothemund
22:00 < fenn> blarg anyway
22:00  * fenn grumbles about slow milling machines
22:00 < kanzure> no my knowledge of nanorex has been recent mostly
22:01 < kanzure> i'm a little surprised that the first public release of ne1 was 2008 though
22:01 < kanzure> weren't you blabbing about it earlier than that?
22:02 < fenn> weird, they wanted to put advertising in ne-1
22:03 < kanzure> oh dear mark is trying to explain git http://www.nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Checking_out_NE1_source_code_from_the_repository
22:03 < fenn> 2008-04-04.log:08:28 < fenn> did you see this? http://www.nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=DNA_Origami_-_Creating_the_Nanorex_logo
22:03 < kanzure> step 4 looks all wrong
22:04 < kanzure> well at least he's recommending pep8
22:08 < kanzure> fenn: further evidence that i'm just going in circles
22:10 < fenn> heh we were just discussing making a molecule construction set just like this yesterday http://www.flickr.com/photos/tweakie-cnc/3430399771/
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22:11 < kanzure> ping pong balls and toothpicks not good enough for you? haha
22:21 < kanzure> bugzilla db http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/polosims-mysql.dump.gz
22:21 < kanzure> now what should i do with it
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22:24 < kanzure> mayko: so you need a gear riggup for your spectrophotometer?
22:25 < mayko> that's the plan
22:25 < mayko> fortunately there is a half cannibalized VCR in the closet mwa hahah
23:04 < kanzure> http://topologicoceans.wordpress.com/2010/11/25/diy-spectro/
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 25 00:00:07 2010