--- Log opened Sun Nov 28 00:00:08 2010
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07:50 < kanzure> fitzsim: the git repo looks much better
07:50 < kanzure> what do you suggest? should i just overwrite the public nanoengineer.git and tell everyone they should clone it again?
07:53 < kanzure> hi bdesk_ 
08:00 < fitzsim> kanzure: do you have a URL I can test?
08:00 < kanzure> i can make this public but you'll have to reset your remote/origin later. one sec
08:03 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/
08:04 < kanzure> cgit doesn't seem to deal with branches at all? it only shows "master" for me
08:04 < kanzure> i guess git push hasn't finished yet
08:05 < fitzsim> ok
08:05 < kanzure> git branch -a lists all branches as remotes/cad and remotes/whatever
08:05 < kanzure> maybe that's part of the problem? (i've never worked with remote branches)
08:05 < kanzure> git push is now done.
08:06 < fitzsim> email addresses show up in commit messages on the web. Is that OK?
08:06 < kanzure> i think there's a cgit option +enable-remote-branches
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08:06 < kanzure> fitzsim: yeah it's a fucken' git repo
08:09 < fitzsim> kanzure: re: remote branches, see item 4 here: http://pauldowman.com/2008/07/26/how-to-convert-from-subversion-to-git/
08:14 < fitzsim> cgit 0.8.3 has a noplainemail option to hide email addresses on the web
08:14 < fitzsim> kanzure: no need for swearing, btw :-)
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08:21 < fitzsim> kanzure: testing a "time git clone" of the test repo
08:23 < fitzsim> real	1m7.427s
08:23 < fitzsim> user	0m16.061s
08:23 < fitzsim> sys	0m4.681s
08:23 < fitzsim>  
08:24 < fitzsim> Receiving objects: 100% (122496/122496), 70.61 MiB | 1.52 MiB/s, done.
08:26 < fitzsim> $ git branch -r
08:26 < fitzsim>   origin/HEAD -> origin/master
08:26 < fitzsim>   origin/master
08:26 < kanzure> do you have those numbers from last time?
08:26 < kanzure> try git branch -a
08:26 < fitzsim> $ git branch -a
08:26 < fitzsim> * master
08:26 < fitzsim>   remotes/origin/HEAD -> origin/master
08:26 < fitzsim>   remotes/origin/master
08:26 < kanzure> :(
08:26 < kanzure> "So you'll need to convert them manually (or write a script to do it if you have a lot, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader)."
08:26 < kanzure> okie dokie
08:27 < kanzure> looks like scripting it is :D
08:27 < fitzsim> sounds fun :)
08:27 < kanzure> but 1min 7sec cloning time makes me much happier
08:27 < kanzure> although it looks like you might be on a reasonably modern connection?
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08:29 < fitzsim> yeah, I'm on 16Mbps
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08:29 < fitzsim> I like that git status is so much faster
08:30 < fitzsim> I think that shouldn't be affected by there being more branches
08:30 < fitzsim> kanzure: if you want to try converting one remote tag to a branch and pushing, I can try pulling it
08:31 < kanzure> ok one sec
08:31 < kanzure> star wars rogue squadron will have to wait :3
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08:32 < kanzure> some of the tagnames are "tags/cad"
08:32 < kanzure> i guess the new name can be "cad"
08:33 < kanzure> it's just kind of awkward saying git tag tags/cad tags/cad
08:34 < fitzsim> yeah, good idea
08:34 < kanzure> there's also a "Distribution" and "tags/Distribution" listed by git branch -r so i don't feel safe doing git tag Distribution tags/distribution
08:34 < kanzure> oh -r remotes. righto
08:35 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/branches.txt
08:36 < fitzsim> the other thing is where did the branches from the SVN repository end up?
08:36 < fitzsim> shouldn't they have been converted to git branches?
08:36 < kanzure> the branches are the ones that are plain-listed
08:36 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/tree/branches
08:36 < kanzure> Distribution, cad, sim, wware_jni_nd1
08:37 < kanzure> everything else is prefixed with "tags/" http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/branches.txt
08:37 < fitzsim> right, so I'd expect them to show up in the "branch -a" output
08:37 < kanzure> on my copy of nanoengineer-fixed.git they are listed as remote branches
08:38 < fitzsim> did you pass -b branches on the git-svn command line?
08:38 < kanzure> yes
08:38 < kanzure> svn clone https://polosims-svn.svn.cvsdude.com/polosims/ --no-metadata -A authors.txt -t tags -b branches -T trunk nanoengineer
08:39 < kanzure> uh, git svn clone
08:39 < fitzsim> and the plain-listed names all appear as directories in the original svn directory?
08:39 < kanzure> well, i haven't done a vanilla svn co yet
08:39 < fitzsim> is there a ViewCVS for the SVN repo?
08:39 < kanzure> mostly because it will be 10 hours until it's done or something
08:40 < kanzure> yes.. one sec
08:41 < kanzure> https://polosims-svn.browse.cvsdude.com/polosims
08:42 < fitzsim> Username/password?
08:42 < kanzure> uh
08:42 < kanzure> i'd rather not
08:42 < fitzsim> heh, thought there may be an anonymous one :)
08:42 < kanzure> basically, ViewCVS' root folder looks exactly like http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/tree/
08:43 < fitzsim> ok
08:43 < kanzure> (except there's a weird Mark Sims email address html-encoding-error on the page that messes up the html at the footer)
08:44 < kanzure> yeah it doesn't help that some of the tags and branches have the same name
08:44 < kanzure> only the "wware_jni_nd1" branch is unique in its name
08:44 < fitzsim> yeah, so maybe we do need the "tags/" namespace
08:45 < fitzsim> I'm new enough to git that I don't know the convention here
08:45 < kanzure> well, i'll do wware_jni_nd1 for you
08:45 < fitzsim> also, it seems strange to me that git-svn doesn't make the branches in branches/ into first-class git branches automatically
08:47 < kanzure> i ran git tag Distribution tags/Distribution before i realized the namespace issues
08:47 < kanzure> so presumably i should undo that
08:48 < fitzsim> yeah
08:48 < fitzsim> make sure you back-up the current repo before experimenting
08:48 < fitzsim> so you won't have to re-clone for another 14 hours
08:53 < fitzsim> ah, I guess this is a consequence of git-svn handling ongoing interaction with the SVN server
08:54 < kanzure> fix fix fix
08:56 < kanzure> i want: git tag Distribution refs/remotes/tags/Distribution; git branch -r -d tags/Distribution
09:01 < fitzsim> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2006265/is-there-an-standard-naming-convention-for-git-tags
09:02 < kanzure> is editing nanoengineer's namespace a good idea? there's probably shitloads of references to branches and tags on the wiki
09:03 < fitzsim> good question
09:03 < fitzsim> this could be an opportunity to improve the naming
09:04 < kanzure> eek tags/release-1.0.1_2008-05-06_0815-EST
09:04 < fitzsim> the standard git convention seems to be "1.1" for the 1.1 maintenance branch and "v1.1" for the 1.1 release
09:04 < fitzsim> yeah
09:04 < fitzsim> so that would become: v1.0.1_2008-05-06_0815-EST
09:05 < kanzure> short story of mine.. i used to be more into perl scripting before python
09:05 < kanzure> one day in the lab i found myself writing filenames like 2008-09-14.pl
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09:05 < kanzure> it was after looking back over hundreds of files named by date that i realized how awful everything was
09:05 < kanzure> hm so you suggest keep the date in the tagname
09:06 < fitzsim> release_candidate_1-1.1.0_2008-06-04_1000-EST would become: v1-1.1.0_2008-06-04_1000-ESTrc
09:06 < fitzsim> v1-1.1.0_2008-06-04_1000-EST-rc
09:06 < fitzsim> or: v1-1.1.0_2008-06-04_1000-EST-candidate
09:07 < kanzure> huh? why ^v1-?
09:07 < fitzsim> I'm looking at: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/tree/tags
09:07 < fitzsim> ah, I see, yeah
09:07 < kanzure> oh 1- was already in the name. got it.
09:07 < fitzsim> rc1
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09:08 < fitzsim> v1.1.0_2008-06-04_1000-EST-release_candidate_1
09:08 < fitzsim> vcad, vsim?
09:09 < kanzure> i don't know why these are here anyway:
09:09 < kanzure> tags/release-1.0.1_2008-05-06_0815-EST
09:09 < kanzure> tags/release-1.0.1_2008-05-06_1200-EST
09:09 < kanzure> basically "a few hours later we decided this was going to be a new tag"
09:09 < fitzsim> yeah
09:09 < fitzsim> that's fine though
09:10 < fitzsim> we could even tack on -release
09:10 < kanzure> git diff tags/release-1.0.1_2008-05-06_0815-EST..tags/release-1.0.1_2008-05-06_1200-EST
09:10 < fitzsim> basically, there should be a pretty easy way to map historical tag names to the git convention
09:11 < fitzsim> huh
09:11 < kanzure> the result of that diff: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/random_diff.txt
09:11 < fitzsim> oh, I thought you meant they were no differences
09:12 < kanzure> frankly it seems like some minor cleanup
09:12 < kanzure> plus release notes.. that sort of thing
09:13 < fitzsim> anyway, I like the last comment on that Stack Overflow thread
09:14 < kanzure> i'm not familiar with git describe
09:14 < fitzsim> although, I just realized that doesn't really work for tags, only for maintenance branches
09:14 < fitzsim> s/tags/release tags/
09:15 < kanzure> anywho i've pushed the tags i've created so far to nanoengineer-fixed.git if you want to test how long cloning that takes
09:15 < kanzure> huh cgit isn't showing any non-remote branches
09:17 < kanzure> ok i did git push --mirror /srv/git/nanoengineer-fixed.git so you should be able to clone now and get goodies back
09:17 < kanzure> or pull
09:18 < fitzsim> ok, I just re-cloned two minutes ago and didn't get any new branches
09:18 < fitzsim> shall I try again now?
09:18 < fitzsim> re-cloning...
09:18 < kanzure> yes
09:19 < kanzure> git push --mirror told me it created about 10 new branches on nanoengineer-fixed
09:19 < kanzure> however, i only see one branch (master) and three tags (three tags is right) http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/refs/?h=trunk
09:19 < fitzsim> yup, looks like that took
09:20 < fitzsim> nope
09:20 < kanzure> hm?
09:20 < fitzsim> $ git branch -a
09:20 < fitzsim> * master
09:20 < fitzsim>   remotes/origin/HEAD -> origin/master
09:20 < fitzsim>   remotes/origin/master
09:20 < kanzure> what abuot tags
09:20 < kanzure> about
09:22 < fitzsim> $ git tag -l
09:22 < fitzsim> Distribution
09:22 < fitzsim> cad
09:22 < fitzsim> sim
09:22 < fitzsim>  
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09:26 < kanzure> fitzsim: woops. looks like i need to checkout the remote branches
09:26 < kanzure> git checkout --track -b wware_jni_nd1 remotes/wware_jni_nd1
09:26 < kanzure> and then when i'm sure i'm done delete all of the remote branches
09:27 < fitzsim> what does --track do?
09:30 < kanzure> well it's primarily to keep remote refs and local refs merged. i guess it's not needed here.
09:32 < fitzsim> the behavior of leaving out -b seems interesting
09:33 < fitzsim> I'm trying to understand why there are cad/ and sim/ tags and branches
09:34 < kanzure> presumably they wanted to keep cad/ and sim/ separated
09:34 < kanzure> but if you check any of the publicly available releases cad/ and sim/ are released together
09:36 < kanzure> btw you should remind me later to merge 'trunk' and 'master'
09:39 < fitzsim> ok
09:39 < kanzure> so it looks like for the tags that i converted earlier it's working on cgit? http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/refs/
09:40 < fitzsim> yeah, I saw them in my cloned repo too
09:40 < kanzure> i'm wondering since i never did checkout those remote tags
09:40 < kanzure> whereas i'm having to checkout these other remote branches
09:40 < kanzure> ok.
09:41 < fitzsim> no, checkouts shouldn't be involved, come-to-think of it
09:41 < fitzsim> since they only affect the working directory
09:41 < kanzure> git checkout -b Distribution remotes/Distribution
09:41 < kanzure> then i get a local branch Distribution which i can push to nanoengineer-fixed.git
09:42 < kanzure> try pulling nanoengineer-fixed.git now
09:43 < kanzure> also the branches are now listed here: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/refs/?id=bb38b9d350dfa97cf9f8a0f8d736aea5783d839e
09:43 < kanzure> er ignore the id= variable in that url.
09:43 < fitzsim> why doesn't http://pauldowman.com/2008/07/26/how-to-convert-from-subversion-to-git/ mention checkout?
09:44 < fitzsim> I think all SVN branches and tags will appear under tags/
09:44 < kanzure> he was primarily dealing with tags
09:44 < kanzure> i don't think he had remote branches to deal with
09:45 < kanzure> other than the fact that his svn tags were stuffed into git branches
09:46 < kanzure> fitzsim: one of the comments points that out: "@Bojan Your one-liner assumes that all the branches have the form "tag/XXX" but that's not always true (e.g., when the SVN repo being converted already has other branches). I changed your one-liner to:..."
09:47 < fitzsim> ok
09:48 < fitzsim> does that one-liner handle what-were-SVN-branches too?
09:48 < kanzure> no that's just the convert-branches-that-were-svn-tags-into-git-tags
09:48 < kanzure> anyway, all of the branches are done on my end
09:49 < kanzure> now back to figuring out the tag naming scheme
09:49 < fitzsim> hmm, I'm getting confused by the conflicting terminologies
09:49 < kanzure> and whether or no to keep both release-1.0.1_2008-05-06_0815-EST and release-1.0.1_2008-05-06_1200-EST
09:49 < kanzure> hm?
09:49 < fitzsim> keep them both
09:49 < kanzure> why
09:49 < kanzure> they made a release and then released again a few hours later?
09:50 < kanzure> here's the diff: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/random_diff.txt
09:50 < fitzsim> yeah, saw that
09:50 < fitzsim> I just think it's better to keep everything for historical reasons
09:50 < fitzsim> it seems arbitrary to fix that one
09:50 < kanzure> heh i'm just starting at the top of the list
09:51 < fitzsim> right, I understand
09:51 < fitzsim> I need to think about this some more though
09:51 < fitzsim> in particular I need to get clear on the different concepts
09:51 < kanzure> which concepts
09:51 < fitzsim> in SVN, they have: tags/ and branches/
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09:51 < kanzure> tags are like a bookmark to a commit
09:51 < fitzsim> right
09:52 < fitzsim> say we have tags/foo and branches/bar
09:52 < fitzsim> in the SVN repo
09:52 < fitzsim> if you run git-svn to import that SVN repo, what's in the resulting git repo?
09:52 < fitzsim> git tags -l
09:52 < fitzsim> and git branch -a
09:53 < fitzsim> what will they report?
09:53 < kanzure> nothing
09:53 < kanzure> oops
09:53 < kanzure> git tags -l will report nothing
09:53 < kanzure> git branch -a will report http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/git-branch-a-git-svn.txt
09:55 < fitzsim> so in my example, it will report:
09:55 < fitzsim> remotes/bar
09:55 < fitzsim> remotes/tags/foo
09:56 < kanzure> yep
09:57 < fitzsim> now what does the "remotes" mean?
09:57 < kanzure> basically anything in remotes/ is a reference to the svn repository
09:58 < kanzure> oh wait i shouldn't say that actually
10:00 < kanzure> this might help you http://www.gitready.com/beginner/2009/03/09/remote-tracking-branches.html
10:00 < kanzure> i was going to say that they are an entry on git-remote but they are not (apparently)
10:01 < kanzure> i expected git-svn to setup everything so that it's just a complex git-remote-add call, but they are doing something different *shrug*
10:01 < fitzsim> can you paste the results of "git remote show remotes/cad" and "git remote show remotes/tags/cad"
10:01 < kanzure> from the vanilla-git-svn repo?
10:02 < fitzsim> yeah
10:02 < kanzure> "git remote" doesn't print anything so basically both of those will fail like "fatal: 'remotes/cad' does not appear to be a git repository"
10:04 < fitzsim> why is "git branch -a" listing them with the remotes/ prefix?
10:05 < kanzure> it's a "remotely tracked branch"
10:08 < fitzsim> does "git remote" print nothing, or an error?
10:10 < kanzure> nothing
10:10 < kanzure> git remote show remotes/tags/cad prints an error because "remotes/tags/cad" is not a remote ref.. uh
10:11 < kanzure> git remote add github kanzure@github.com:~/nanoenginer.git
10:11 < kanzure> git push github master
10:11 < kanzure> "github" is a remote ref in that example
10:11 < kanzure> for many of my repos i have a remote named 'diyhplus' for instance
10:13 < fitzsim> ok, so the "remotes/"-prefixed items in the output of "git branch -a" are not git remotes, they're git branches named with the "remotes/" prefix?
10:13 < kanzure> yes specifically they are the second type of git branches called remote branches or remotely-tracked
10:13 < kanzure> remotely-tracked branches, i mean.
10:15 < fitzsim> http://www.gitready.com/beginner/2009/03/09/remote-tracking-branches.html
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10:16 < kanzure> fitzsim: dunno if you saw but i linked you to that 10min ago
10:18 < fitzsim> oh, missed it
10:19 < fitzsim> why are SVN tags represented by git-svn as git tracking branches?
10:26 < fitzsim> https://github.com/nirvdrum/svn2git#readme
10:26 < fitzsim> why does "git branch -a" in their example there not show the "remotes/" prefixes?
10:29 < fitzsim> yeah, newer versions of git started adding the "remotes/" prefix around git 1.6
10:32 < kanzure> ok so in nanoengineer-fixed.git there is a branch called "cad"
10:32 < kanzure> which was originally a tag in svn
10:32 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/tree/tags/cad
10:33 < kanzure> wait. uh
10:33 < kanzure> yeah. okay. in svn it was a tag.
10:33 < kanzure> i converted it to a branch because xyz. i must be forgetting something
10:34 < kanzure> anyway, all of these folders in this branch are pretty crazy. they look like they should be tags too?
10:34 < fitzsim> hate to say it, but I think we may want to use svn2git instead
10:35 < kanzure> oh hm.. that's right, there was a branch and a tag
10:35 < kanzure> but tag:cad doesn't seem to have anything in nanoengineer-fixed.git http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/tag/?h=cad
10:36 < kanzure> ah here we go http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/tag/?id=cad
10:36 < kanzure> so this is tag:cad http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/commit/?id=8ab5e67b77a2a5760d1244b7aa83e54988e30e09
10:36 < kanzure> from 2006-09-23
10:37 < fitzsim> Does SVN fully-qualifies tag names?
10:37 < fitzsim> s/qualifies/qualify/
10:37 < kanzure> oof i should know what that means but i don't
10:37 < kanzure> i'm just trying to differentiate between the tag and branch 'cad' (both of which existed in the svn repo)
10:37 < fitzsim> right
10:37 < fitzsim> that's the confusing part
10:38 < kanzure> tag cad: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/commit/?id=8ab5e67b77a2a5760d1244b7aa83e54988e30e09
10:38 < kanzure> branch cad: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/tree/?h=cad
10:38 < fitzsim> I think svn2git would do everything we want for us, except that there may be tags and branches that have the same name, and I don't know how it would handle that
10:39 < fitzsim> In SVN, is "cad" a tag name?
10:39 < kanzure> tag cad has lots of edits to week_060923 annd week_060923 appears in branch cad too: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/tree/week_060923?h=cad
10:39 < kanzure> yes in svn there is a tag "cad" and a branch "cad"
10:39 < kanzure> i think some of this might be due to their poor use of the svn repo
10:40 < kanzure> for instance, it makes no sense that they have a tag "cad" that points to a two year old revision
10:40 < kanzure> meanwhile branch "cad" has all sorts of crap that all look more like tags :P
10:40 < fitzsim> sort of, but it's ultimately SVN's fault for mixing up the tag/branch namespaces with the project file hierarchy namespace
10:40 < fitzsim> doing so is a recipe for this type of confusion
10:42 < kanzure> what are we confused about at the moment? besides "why does the 'cad' branch have all this crap in it / why is there a cad/sim/Distribution branch and a trunk branch"
10:43 < fitzsim> basically, ask yourself: how does git2svn figure out how deep to go when deriving a git tag name from the SVN repository's tags directory?
10:44 < fitzsim> I'll do an example
10:44 < fitzsim> working with http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/tree/
10:45 < fitzsim> there's trunk/cad/src
10:45 < kanzure> in branch master? yes
10:46 < fitzsim> no, just pretend we're looking at the SVN repo
10:46 < kanzure> ok.
10:46 < fitzsim> trunk/cad/src
10:46 < fitzsim> branches/cad/bruce_070405/src
10:46 < fitzsim> tags/cad/Release_0-9-1_20070701/src
10:47 < kanzure> oh you know what part of this might be due to a bad cvs->svn conversion.. they might have started off with using cvs
10:48 < fitzsim> ideally, from that svn2git would produce:
10:48 < fitzsim> $ git branch
10:48 < fitzsim> * master
10:48 < kanzure> ok so you are suggesting that tags/cad/Release_0-9-1_20070701 should be the name of a tag and the tag name isn't just "cad"
10:49 < fitzsim>   cad/bruce_070405
10:49 < fitzsim> $ git tag -l
10:49 < fitzsim>   cad/Release_0-9-1_20070701
10:49 < fitzsim> right
10:51 < fitzsim> there's still a possibility that an SVN branch and an SVN tag would "resolve" to the same name
10:52 < kanzure> i'm not sure bruce_070405 is really a branch
10:53 < fitzsim> it's just an example, I could have picked any of the names in the branches/ directory
10:53 < kanzure> i mean, it's certainly a copy of the code plus some sort of revision set
10:53 < kanzure> hmm
10:53 < kanzure> i mean to say that i don't think anything in svn:branches/cad/* is a separate branch
10:55 < kanzure> you know, svn branches really suck
10:55 < fitzsim> yup :-)
10:57 < kanzure> i agree tags/cad/Releasewhatever should be a git tag with a name like vwhatever, sure
10:57 < kanzure> for branches, i'm not sure- it's not like there's any "this branch was branched from revision xyz" info laying around
10:58 < fitzsim> darn, the password I had for https://polosims-svn.svn.cvsdude.com/polosims/trunk/ doesn't work any more
10:58 < kanzure> we could just throw all of the branches into a git branch called "old crappy svn branches"
10:59 < kanzure> i really doubt anyone is ever going to go through all of those wware_050505 folders and sort through them
10:59 < kanzure> but they should still exist somewhere
10:59 < fitzsim> can you compare the recursive listing of https://polosims-svn.svn.cvsdude.com/polosims/trunk/ with http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/tree/ ?
11:00 < fitzsim> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/tree/trunk , I mean
11:00 < fitzsim> grr, s/trunk/branches/
11:00 < kanzure> it's exactly the same
11:01 < fitzsim> ok, just wanted to make sure git-svn didn't miss anything
11:01 < fitzsim> in that case, yeah, these SVN "branches" are strange
11:01 < fitzsim> tags can include a subset of the files on trunk at a given time
11:01 < fitzsim> but does it make sense for branches to track a subset of trunk?
11:02 < fitzsim> I think this is a side-effect of SVN's implementation
11:02 < kanzure> tags just point at a commit really
11:03 < fitzsim> can you try checkout out e.g. the bruce_070405 branch from SVN?
11:03 < fitzsim> s/checkout/checking/
11:04 < kanzure> https://polosims-svn.browse.cvsdude.com/polosims/branches/cad/bruce_070405/
11:04 < fitzsim> no, I mean doing an svn checkout
11:04 < kanzure> why
11:05 < kanzure> the files are the same.
11:05 < fitzsim> but it doesn't just check out src, right?
11:05 < kanzure> what?
11:06 < kanzure> ok so you're saying if i checkout branches/cad/bruce_070405 that it will check out other stuff? O_o
11:06 < fitzsim> first of all, how do you refer to that branch on the SVN command line?
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11:06 < kanzure> haha i don't use svn that often/ever so that's a good question :)
11:06 < kanzure> although on https://polosims-svn.browse.cvsdude.com/polosims/branches/cad/bruce_070405/src/ it says the revision is 6933 for GLPane.py
11:07 < kanzure> and the log for GLPane.py in nanoengineer.git shows this: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/log/branches/cad/bruce_070405/src/GLPane.py
11:07 < kanzure> under https://polosims-svn.browse.cvsdude.com/polosims/branches/cad/ the commit message for bruce_070405 is "Moved remotely" (the same as the commit message for GLPane.py on nanoengineer.git)
11:08 < kanzure> "Moved remotely" is r9410
11:08 < kanzure> huh there's actually a log on that file for the svn repo
11:09 < fitzsim> I think you should go through the excercise of checking out a particular branch from SVN, and keep it around, so that you can compare that with what you get for the analogous git sequence
11:10 < fitzsim> looking at the exploded SVN repository structure could confuse us with implementation details
11:13 < kanzure> git checkout cad -> "warning: refname 'cad' is ambiguous." uh oh. did i break this already?
11:13 < fitzsim> ok, that answer's one question :)
11:13 < kanzure> m?
11:13 < kanzure> hm?
11:13 < fitzsim> i.e. how does git handle tags and branches with the same name
11:14 < kanzure> i thought git checkout should be checking out a branch :(
11:14 < fitzsim> or a tag
11:15 < kanzure> bluh
11:15 < fitzsim> try differentiating with refs/heads/ and refs/tags/ prefixes
11:16 < kanzure> (well, at the moment, it's definitely checking out the branch) i wanted to go see if bruce_070405 has commit history in nanoengineer-fixed.git
11:17 < kanzure> wait.. why isn't bruce_070405 in http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/tree/?h=cad
11:19 < fitzsim> I don't know
11:20 < kanzure> ok well it's still checking out git branch 'cad' on my shell so we'll see if bruce_070405 is in branch 'cad' here too or not
11:24 < fitzsim> did you try the SVN branch experiment?
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11:37 < Utopiah_> archels: the talk was recorded and is being uploaded
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11:49 < kanzure> fitzsim: no not yet. i'm still trying to figure out where bruce_070405 went. 
11:51 < fitzsim> that is weird
11:51 < fitzsim> but I'd say don't spend too much time on that
11:51 < fitzsim> I think you'll have to re-do the repository again anyway
11:52 < fitzsim> check this out:
11:52 < fitzsim> http://www.spinics.net/lists/git/msg79353.html
11:52 < fitzsim> I think we want "the long way" mentioned there, in combination with what svn2git does
11:52 < fitzsim> mixing the two will be a trick though, since the "long way" steps happen right in the middle of the svn2git conversion process
12:04 < kanzure> oh i screwed up when i tried to fix the remote branches
12:08 < niftyzero> kanzure - let me know if you have git questions
12:08 < fitzsim> I think the sequence should be:
12:08 < fitzsim> git init
12:10 < fitzsim> add svn-remote section in .git/config as per http://www.spinics.net/lists/git/msg79353.html
12:11 < fitzsim> write a Ruby script to call fix_tags, fix_branches, fix_trunk and optimize_repos in https://github.com/nirvdrum/svn2git/blob/master/lib/svn2git/migration.rb
12:12 < fitzsim> IOW, do the same as the run! function there, but replace the clone step with our own custom step to handle the sub-directory-laden branches/tags layout of the NE-1 SVN repo
12:15 < niftyzero> you might just skip fixing the tags / branches, and even delete them if you don't care about painful historical details and just want to start new development from the tip of the trunk
12:16 < kanzure> fitzsim: actually i'm p. sure the main problem is that i corrupted the tag/branch namespace in nanoengineer-fixed.git 
12:16 < fitzsim> niftyzero: we tried skipping fixing them, but the result is a very large and slow repository: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer
12:17 < fitzsim> s/large and//
12:17 < kanzure> fitzsim: if this is true then when i checkout -b blah remotes/cad i should get better history in nanoengineer-fixed2.git than i see here: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/log/branches/cad/bruce_070405/src/GLPane.py
12:20 < kanzure> :( but i only get a handful of "Moved remotely" commits on refs/remotes/cad/bruce_070405/src/GLPane.py
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12:20 < kanzure> there are at least 30 revisions here: https://polosims-svn.browse.cvsdude.com/polosims/branches/cad/bruce_070405/src/GLPane.py?view=log
12:21 < kanzure> hmm: r6872 "This commit was manufactured by cvs2svn to create branch 'bruce_070405'."
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12:22 < niftyzero> you could kill all the branches and tags you don't care about, then garbage collect
12:22 < niftyzero> downloading...
12:22 < niftyzero> it looks like almost 100MB
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12:23 < kanzure> niftyzero: 300MB for nanoengineer.git
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12:23 < kanzure> fitzsim: http://gnusha.org/logs/2010-11-28.log
12:24 < kanzure> so i want to know why bruce_070405 files are not getting revision history under git
12:24 < kanzure> they have some, but it's mostly irrelevant stuff
12:25 < kanzure> and git log --follow just shows multiple "Moved remotely" commits
12:25 < fitzsim> <kanzure> fitzsim: if this is true then when i checkout -b blah remotes/cad i
12:25 < fitzsim>           should get better history in nanoengineer-fixed2.git than i see
12:25 < fitzsim>           here:
12:25 < fitzsim>           http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/log/branches/cad/bruce_070405/src/GLPane.py
12:25 < fitzsim> <fitzsim> kanzure: but you're definitely going to have to deal specially with
12:25 < fitzsim>           the tags/branches sub-directory layout
12:25 < fitzsim> <fitzsim> kanzure: there's no way around that
12:25 < fitzsim> <fitzsim> kanzure: git-svn by default expects tag names to be one level only
12:25 < fitzsim>           under tags/ and branch names one level only under branches/
12:26 < fitzsim> (that's what I pasted before the connection interruption)
12:26 < fitzsim> s/pasted/wrote/
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12:27 < kanzure> hmm
12:33 < kanzure> niftyzero: you shouldn't really bother with nanoengineer.git.. you can just browse the master branch's tree structure via cgit and get all the info you need
12:33 < kanzure> niftyzero: the idea is that i'm supposedly making a new .git that has everything fixed
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12:34 < niftyzero> I'm just trying to give helpful git advice... ;)  I already have a copy of the svn repo from before
12:35 < kanzure> you do?
12:35 < fitzsim> niftyzero: regarding omitting history in the conversion, I like kanzure's approach of a complete conversion because having all the history will be helpful in understanding the codebase
12:35 < niftyzero> ok
12:36 < kanzure> when did you get a copy of the svn repo
12:36 < fitzsim> niftyzero: do you have it in raw SVN form, or a checkout?
12:36 < fitzsim> and how recent is it?
12:36 < niftyzero> checkout
12:36 < fitzsim> oh, ok
12:37 < fitzsim> I have one too, with a guest account that doesn't work anymore
12:37 < fitzsim> but kanzure has a working account on the server that he's been running git-svn against
12:37 < niftyzero> cool
12:37 < fitzsim> a recent server-side backup of the repository would be useful for his experiments
12:38 < fitzsim> since it would save time/bandwidth
12:38 < fitzsim> kanzure: what do you think of the procedure I sketched out?
12:39 < kanzure> i'm looking around.
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12:49 < kanzure> fitzsim: actually, i'm trying svn-all-fast-export
12:53 < fitzsim> kanzure: interesting.  ok, let me know when you'd like me to test again
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13:44  * kanzure twiddles his thumbs
13:45 < kanzure> Utopiah: there's a french transhumanist association?
13:45 < kanzure> something about CA_AFT@yahoogroupes.fr
13:45 < Utopiah> yes
13:46 < Utopiah> Association Francaise Transhumaniste
13:46 < kanzure> oh i guess i mean http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/transhumanistes/
13:46 < Utopiah> same
13:47 < Utopiah> AFAIK ~10members
13:49 < kanzure> not cool
13:52 < Utopiah> maybe it will change a lot after the 1st meeting as people will think the association can actually bring value
13:56 < kanzure> these two papers sound fun:
13:56 < kanzure> Neural substrates of envisioning the future
13:56 < kanzure> Episodic simulation of future events
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14:40 < archels> http://telexlr8.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/suzanne-gildert-on-thinking-about-the-hardware-of-thinking-can-disruptive-technologies-help-us-achieve-uploading-teleplace-28th-november-2010-10am-pst/
14:40 < archels> I see the post is revised, but there's no link to a video.
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14:42 < Utopiah> archels: want a 1 line sum-up?
14:42 < archels> sure
14:43 < Utopiah> ASIC CPUs only might not be the right solution, there should be investment in alternatives and not just GPUs or FPGA but quantum computing and even other computing "solutions"
14:43 < Utopiah> (at least that was my understanding of the talk)
14:47 < archels> alright, that sounds a little disappointing
14:48 < kanzure> "They also made a range of social behavior errors (e.g., leaving a shop without paying, offering sexual favors in lieu of payment)." haha
14:48 < archels> Did they talk about memristors?
14:48 < Utopiah> briefly but mostly to complain about the recent simplistic IEEE spectrum article
14:49 < Utopiah> saying throwing memristors are the problem but without a proper design is idealistic
14:49 < Utopiah> s/are/at/
14:50 < archels> ah, I'm glad they're not that short-sighted. :)
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14:54 < Utopiah> was about ~15people present
14:54 < archels> incredible
14:56 < Utopiah> AFAIK TeleXLR8 events are usually <20 participants so far
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16:31 < kanzure> r6520 :(
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17:14 < kanzure> r8050
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18:00 < kanzure> dbolser: bioinformatics.org used to have this huge wiki page on bioinfromatics covering a lot of topics.. do you know where it went?
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18:21 < kanzure> guess i wanted this: [edit]
18:21 < kanzure> bluh. http://www.bioinformatics.org/wiki/Bioinformatics_FAQ
18:21 < kanzure> back when it was all on one page
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19:48 < kanzure> hi genehacker 
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20:20 < Redeemer> Kanzure, any news of anyone else looking to room up?
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20:33 < kanzure> Redeemer: nope :(
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20:40 < fitzsim> kanzure: re: r8050 you're trying with svn-all-fast-export?
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20:51 < kanzure> fitzsim: yes
20:51 < kanzure> fitzsim: also it makes a full copy of the svn repo so i don't have to do this again
20:51 < kanzure> Exporting revision 9387     /branches/cad/avendor was copied from /trunk/cad/branches/avendor rev 9386
20:51 < kanzure> "cad-avendor" is not a known branch in repository "polosims.git"
20:52 < kanzure> +++++++++++++++.Branch "cad-avendor" in repository "polosims.git" doesn't exist at revision 9387 -- did you resume from the wrong revision? 1 modifications from SVN /trunk/ to polosims.git/master 1125 modifications from SVN /branches/cad/avendor to polosims.git/cad-avendor done
20:52 < kanzure> ++Failed to write to process: Error writing to process
20:52 < kanzure> Aborted
20:52 < kanzure> real    419m59.592s
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20:54 < fitzsim> kanzure: does it handle sub-directories in tags and branches?
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21:04 < kanzure> fitzsim: yes it's supposed to
21:08 < fitzsim> yeah, from that failure message it looks like it names the cad/avendor branch "cad-avendor" which is good
21:12 < kanzure> that's from a custom rules file
21:14 < fitzsim> ok
21:15 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/polosims.rules
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21:19 < fitzsim> kanzure: for the branches/wware_jni_nd1/ rule I don't think you want the second path element
21:20 < kanzure> well, it's easily fiable
21:20 < kanzure> *fixable
21:21 < kanzure> both by rerunning the rules on the svn repo
21:21 < kanzure> or by later merging those wware_jni_nd1 branches together
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21:22 < fitzsim> kanzure: in fact, wware_jni_nd1 looks like it is a standard one-level-deep branch name
21:22 < fitzsim> kanzure: is Distribution a directory or always just a tag?
21:23 < kanzure> Distribution is both a tag and a branch
21:23 < kanzure> in the global namespace
21:23 < kanzure> it also seems to be present quite often in various tags
21:23 < fitzsim> kanzure: I mean, would someone have created a top-level Distribution directory in their SVN working directory, then committed it?
21:23 < kanzure> dunno.
21:23 < kanzure> i should probably ask mark
21:24 < fitzsim> kanzure: I can't match the contents of wware_jni_nd1/Distribution with anything in trunk
21:24 < fitzsim> s%wware%branches/wware%
21:26 < kanzure> "/branches/wware_jni_nd1/" is a copy-with-history, auto-recursing 
21:26 < kanzure> "/branches/wware_jni_nd1/Distribution/" rev 10115 did not match any rules; cannot continue
21:28 < fitzsim> yeah, I don't understand Distribution yet
21:29 < fitzsim> for example: root/branches/Distribution/wware_abmacosx_20060130/autoBuild.py
21:29 < fitzsim> is that "autoBuild.py in the top-level directory, on the Distribution-wware_abmacosx_20060130 branch"?
21:30 < kanzure> haha what? there's also weird things with names that look like branches under the branch "Distribution" ?
21:30 < fitzsim> yeah
21:31 < kanzure> fuck this
21:31 < kanzure> hm
21:31 < fitzsim> root/branches/wware_jni_nd1/Distribution looks like "a Distribution directory in the top-level directory, on the wware_jni_nd1 branch"
21:32 < QuantumG> chicken crimpys and coffee.. not as bad as I thought it would be
21:32 < kanzure> fitzsim: yeah, otherwise i would expect Distribution to have a more creative name
21:32 < kanzure> but that doesn't explain why there's a branch called Distribution with folders that look an awful lot like branches
21:34 < fitzsim> right
21:35 < fitzsim> was autoBuild.py an old file that was removed on the trunk at some point?
21:35 < kanzure> we could just ignore this wware_jni_nd1 thing
21:36 < fitzsim> I think the Distribution is just overloaded to mean "top-level directory" in some places, and "branch namespace prefix" in other places
21:37 < fitzsim> match /branches/wware_jni_nd1/
21:37 < fitzsim>   repository polosims.git
21:37 < fitzsim>   branch wware_jni_nd1
21:37 < fitzsim> end match
21:37 < kanzure> heh
21:38 < kanzure> yeah i'll try that
21:38 < fitzsim> and I think your second rule is good, just checking...
21:39 < kanzure> running the rules again.. (have to start from scratch each time)
21:41 < fitzsim> ninad_20070924_GGBC_experimental, ninad_20070924_GGBC_experimental_2 and ninad_20071211_selectMode_split look problematic
21:41 < kanzure> can you point me to those on http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/tree
21:41 < fitzsim> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/tree/branches/cad/ninad_20070924_GGBC_experimental
21:42 < kanzure> hm
21:44 < kanzure> the rules will rename that to cad-ninad_20070924_GGBC_experimental_2
21:44 < fitzsim> right, but it looks like it's actually a branch of a deeper sub-directory, whereas all the other branches (so far, still checking) contain a subset of the root directory
21:51 < fitzsim> branches/sim/* look fine too
21:53 < fitzsim> kanzure: does svn-all-fast-export know that to tranform e.g. "branches/cad/bruce_070405/src" to "cad/src on the cad-bruce_070405 branch" in the git repository?
21:54 < fitzsim> kanzure: in other words, does it understand that the src in "branches/cad/bruce_070405/src" is actually "cad/src", not "just src in the top-level directory"?
21:55 < kanzure> huh
21:55 < kanzure> uh
21:55 < kanzure> no i think not
21:55 < kanzure> but i'm not sure if that's the case though?
21:56 < kanzure> i mean, it makes sense, but i don't know if that's important
21:57 < fitzsim> yeah, maybe you're right that it's not the case
21:58 < fitzsim> I keep forgetting I'm looking at SVN repo implementation details
21:58 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/refs/
21:58 < kanzure> so uh
21:58 < kanzure> there's a branch called "cad" there
21:59 < kanzure> and it's basically still huge: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/log/?h=cad
21:59 < kanzure> oops i should have linked to http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/tree/?h=cad
22:00 < fitzsim> yeah, there shouldn't be a cad branch
22:00 < kanzure> hrm.
22:00 < kanzure> i think all of those should be separate branches right?
22:00 < fitzsim> is nanoengineer-fixed the new-new repo?
22:00 < kanzure> i.e. cad-wware_qt4_snapshot_20061229_3pm (the bottom one on that last link) should be a branch
22:00 < kanzure> yes
22:01 < kanzure> feel free to clone it
22:01 < fitzsim> yeah, that last link should be a branch, for example
22:01 < fitzsim> it should appear in the drop-down at the top right of the cgit page
22:01 < kanzure> these branches are awful :(
22:02 < kanzure> intermediate_brink_of_A6_050815_before_povray_movie_commits
22:02 < kanzure> week_061102_beforeMainWindowFileSplit_ninad_061024_mainWindow
22:03 < kanzure> jrayhawk: :(
22:04 < fitzsim> kanzure: ok, this is an improvement, because the branches are at least listed
22:05 < kanzure> oh wait
22:05 < kanzure> these were tags originally http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/tree/tags/cad/
22:05 < kanzure> oh cad-intermediate_brink_of_A6_050815_before_povray_movie_commits is listed as a tag on http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/refs/
22:07 < kanzure> so basically the "cad" branch can be deleted.. i think
22:07 < kanzure> i think they might have committed to the "cad" branch even though it was mostly tags: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/log/?h=cad
22:07 < fitzsim> cad-intermediate_brink_of_A6_050815_before_povray_movie_commits doesn't show up as a top-level directory
22:10 < kanzure> what?
22:10 < kanzure> it's a tag
22:10 < fitzsim> s/directory/tag/
22:11 < kanzure> on http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/refs/
22:11 < fitzsim> shouldn't it show up in the drop-down box?
22:11 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/tag/?id=cad-intermediate_brink_of_A6_050815_before_povray_movie_commits
22:11 < kanzure> drop-down box is branches
22:11 < kanzure> no
22:11 < fitzsim> ok
22:11 < fitzsim> yeah, I see it there in refs
22:12 < kanzure> there's something like 200~ tags
22:12 < fitzsim> yeah
22:12 < fitzsim> so this is definitely an improvement
22:13 < kanzure> oh woops
22:13 < fitzsim> in that the branch and tag names are OK
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22:14 < fitzsim> but the branches aren't right yet
22:14 < fitzsim> and I think that's because of more weirdness in the SVN repo
22:15 < kanzure> no i screwed up and pushed to nanoengineer-fixed.git without first cleaning it out
22:15 < kanzure> so Distribution shouldn't actually be there any more
22:15 < kanzure> one sec
22:15 < fitzsim> ah, great
22:15 < fitzsim> so that's one issue that will go away
22:16 < fitzsim> kanzure: how did you get a password for polosims?
22:16 < fitzsim> I could really use one so I could actually see ViewVC and play with SVN
22:16 < fitzsim> right now I'm struggling with why the branches only show a subset of files, e.g. just the src directory for the most part
22:17 < kanzure> ok one sec
22:17 < fitzsim> in ViewVC I would expect to see what would be the result of a checkout from that branch
22:17 < kanzure> fitzsim: see pm
22:17 < kanzure> https://polosims-svn.home.cvsdude.com/ajax#login
22:20 < kanzure> fitzsim: new-new-new repo
22:20 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/refs/
22:22 < kanzure> what's going on here? http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/log/?h=cad-MERI i do not like seeing "Moved remotely" in my commit messages..
22:22 < kanzure> it suggests that i'm missing something important
22:26 < kanzure> actually most of the branches have the "Moved remotely" commit message http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/refs/
22:30 < kanzure> jrayhawk's alter ego says it's an artifact of svn not keeping track of how a branch is created, so it's to be expected/unfortunate
22:30 < fitzsim> yeah, I'm trying to figure out the commit graph of the bruce_070405 branch in the original SVN repo
22:32 < fitzsim> "Moved remotely" denotes a merge
22:32 < fitzsim> from branch to HEAD
22:33 < fitzsim> hehe "moved remotely" is sort of non-sensical as a phrase
22:34 < fitzsim> why is this SVN repository repo formed like this, with these branch subsets?
22:34 < kanzure> marijuana
22:34 < fitzsim> hahaha
22:35 < QuantumG> by the sounds of it
22:35 < fitzsim> kanzure: for example, compare: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/subversion/trunk/ to http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/subversion/branches/1.4.x/
22:35 < fitzsim> they both have the same file sets
22:35 < fitzsim> branches/1.4.x/ doesn't just show the different files
22:36 < kanzure> please realize that apache.org knows how to use svn
22:37 < kanzure> r868379 hahah
22:38 < fitzsim> ok, so you think NE commiters were using the repo in a non-standard way
22:39 < kanzure> yes
22:39 < fitzsim> old-nanorex/bruce_070405/src
22:39 < QuantumG>  On April 11, 1954, absolutely nothing happened.
22:40 < fitzsim> $ svn log GLPane.py |tail
22:40 < fitzsim> r1029 | huaicai | 2005-02-08 22:21:40 -0500 (Tue, 08 Feb 2005) | 2 lines
22:40 < fitzsim>  
22:40 < fitzsim> Use OpenGL color logic xor operation to do rubber-band window drawing.
22:40 < fitzsim>  
22:40 < fitzsim> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
22:40 < fitzsim> r976 | huaicai | 2005-02-01 13:21:00 -0500 (Tue, 01 Feb 2005) | 2 lines
22:40 < fitzsim>  
22:40 < fitzsim> Revert GLPane.py to 1.103
22:40 < fitzsim>  
22:40 < kanzure> yes i know
22:40 < fitzsim> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
22:40 < fitzsim> $ svn log GLPane.py |head
22:40 < fitzsim> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
22:40 < fitzsim> r9410 | polosims_svn | 2007-08-09 22:36:05 -0400 (Thu, 09 Aug 2007) | 1 line
22:40 < fitzsim> Moved remotely
22:40 < fitzsim>  
22:41 < fitzsim> how would they have done that, using svn commands?
22:41 < kanzure> basically they branched it / moved the file
22:41 < kanzure> one sec
22:43 < kanzure> 22:43:29 omg/jblake: they probably just checked out the whole repo and renamed a bunch of branches with svn mv or similar
22:44 < kanzure> 22:43:53 omg/jblake: renaming a branch won't confuse svn but it won't survive the import into git
22:44 < kanzure> 22:44:32 omg/jblake: i'm guessing that "moved remotely" commit was just a whole bunch of branch renames
22:46 < fitzsim> sounds about right
22:46 < fitzsim> though I'm not sure about the svn mv part
22:46 < fitzsim> maybe to start a branch they svn copy'd some files over
22:47 < kanzure> unfortunately we can't be sure of that
22:47 < kanzure> it might be true
22:47 < kanzure> or they might have copied-then-edited then commited to the new branch
22:48 < fitzsim> svn copy trunk/cad/src/graphics/widgets/GLPane.py trunk/cad/src/graphics/behaviors/confirmation_corner.py trunk/cad/src/command_support/modes.py branches/bruce_070405/src
22:48 < kanzure> and thanks to nanotechnology... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFoC-uxRqCg
22:48 < kanzure> fitzsim: btw alot of the developers were using windows and tortoisesvn
22:48 < kanzure> so there's another lawyer of possible screwups involved there
22:48 < fitzsim> ah, ok, good to know
22:49 < fitzsim> then do multiple commits in branches/bruce_070405/src
22:49 < fitzsim> then svn mv the files back to HEAD when don
22:49 < fitzsim> e
22:49 < kanzure> huh?
22:53 < fitzsim> just speculating what the workflow would have been
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22:54 < fitzsim> svn copy trunk/[files subset] branches/<something>/src; multiple svn commit's on branch; svn mv branches/<something>/src/[files subset] trunk/[files subset]
22:54 < QuantumG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ-1lfammjk oh god, the bridge is so good
22:54 -!- mayko [~mayko@69-36-214-157.dynamic.dsl.skybest.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:54 < kanzure> QuantumG: yeah i didn't know glory liu did another song
22:55 < kanzure> i'm worried singinst.org will do one about ai
22:55 < QuantumG> hehe
22:55 < kanzure> "this week on sesame street eliezer yudkowsky guest stars with big bird"
22:57 < QuantumG> one day smacking the side of my computer is not going to quiet down the fan.. I don't know what I will do on that day.
22:58 < jrayhawk> white lithium grease
22:58 < fitzsim> kanzure: how much scripting are you prepared to do?  I think reconstructing everything is doable but tedious
23:00 < kanzure> i don't think it's worth it
23:00 < kanzure> you could attempt to convince me
23:03 < fitzsim> well, it would definitely be nice to have the entire commit history well-organized in a git repo
23:03 < fitzsim> grr, I wish they had at least maintained the file hierarchy on the branches
23:03 < kanzure> yes but i'm not sure these branches are worth that?
23:03 < QuantumG> the only accurate measure of code quality: wtfs-per-second
23:04 < fitzsim> but they just flattened everything into src
23:04  * mayko is away: theres a shyness found in reason
23:05 < fitzsim> kanzure: having a complete history can be very useful in explaining why things as they are currently
23:05 < fitzsim> kanzure: it would be one thing if the old SVN repo were still accessible somewhere
23:06 < fitzsim> but since the git repo will be "all we have" it would be a shame to completely get rid of that history
23:07 < kanzure> show me one of these branches that wasn't already integrated into HEAD
23:07 < fitzsim> maybe they're all merged into HEAD
23:08 < fitzsim> but the point is you lose all the individual branch diffs
23:08 < fitzsim> have you talked to Mark about getting a backup of the SVN repo?
23:09 < kanzure> no not yet
23:09 < fitzsim> if we had that on diyhpl.us then we could use git for all new development and the SVN repo for historical reference
23:10 < fitzsim> then we'd only have to convert trunk for the git repo
23:10 < fitzsim> that might be a nice halfway solution
23:11 < kanzure> what do you mean we'd have to convert trunk?
23:12 < kanzure> trunk was merged into master
23:12 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/log/
23:12 < fitzsim> yeah, that's all I meant
23:14 < fitzsim> yeah, it doesn't look possible to extract information from the SVN repository about these branches
23:15 < fitzsim> try: diff -r975:976
23:15 < fitzsim> svn diff -r975:976
23:16 < fitzsim> that's the commit that moved GLPane.py into branches/bruce_070405/src
23:18 < fitzsim> so a conversion script would basically have to figure out these "branch points" then replay the commits into the git repository on that branch
23:20 < fitzsim> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1857857/convert-from-remote-hosted-svn-to-git
23:20 < fitzsim> the last comment there suggests no one's figured out how to do this properly
23:23 < kanzure> anywho we can just use my svn backup now
23:23 < epitron> rawr legacy crap
23:23 < kanzure> if you want that stored somewhere
23:23 < kanzure> epitron: your mom is legacy
23:23 < epitron> leggy?
23:24 < kanzure> same thing
23:24 < epitron> leg, i see.
23:24 < fitzsim> kanzure: you mean your checkout?
23:24 < epitron> is this that thing you guys were trying to put into git a long time ago?
23:24 < epitron> the one that shouldn't be in git?
23:24 < fitzsim> kanzure: or do you have a backup of the server-side SVN repo?
23:24 < kanzure> fitzsim: no not a checkout
23:25 < kanzure> epitron: no that was reprap
23:25 < epitron> ah yes
23:26 < fitzsim> kanzure: how hard would it be to host an anonymous SVN repo on diyhpl.us somewhere?
23:27 < fitzsim> kanzure: wait, if you had a backup why were you pointing to the server for the git conversion?
23:27 < kanzure> svn-all-fast-export made a backup of the svn repo
23:28 < kanzure> i'm not so sure about hosting an svn repo.. how about i just make it a tarball
23:28 < fitzsim> sure, that works
23:28 < fitzsim> does the svn-all-fast-export backup have complete history?
23:28 < kanzure> yes
23:28 < kanzure> it's basically the same as if mark would have given me a raw server dump
23:29 < kanzure> not svn co
23:29 < kanzure> epitron: what are you doing in here anyway
23:29 < fitzsim> huh, I didn't know you could do that with an SVN server, I thought there would be info it would hold back
23:29 < kanzure> epitron: what's up?
23:29 < epitron> lurking?
23:29 < kanzure> epitron: lurk more
23:29 < fitzsim> kanzure: yeah, a tarball of that is fine then
23:29 < kanzure> or something :P
23:29 < epitron> ROGER!
23:29 < kanzure> fitzsim: okay.
23:29 < fitzsim> kanzure: anyone who cares can download it and check the history on their own machine
23:29 < kanzure> sounds good to me
23:30 < fitzsim> kanzure: and new development can happen on the trunk -> git conversion
23:30 < kanzure> frankly a lot of these branches can just be deleted
23:30 < fitzsim> (which will be a lot smaller too, another benefit)
23:30 < kanzure> but if they are going to be deleted i want those deletes to be in the git repo
23:30 < fitzsim> hmm
23:31 < kanzure> i am particularly interested in branches that have actual version strings
23:32 < kanzure> fitzsim: do you think there's anything else i should do before i replace nanoengineer.git?
23:33 < fitzsim> wait, what I was thinking is some option to svn-all-fast-export to just say "ignore branches and tags"
23:33 < kanzure> why
23:33 < fitzsim> because the branches and tags it creates from this weird SVN history are essentially meaningless
23:34 < kanzure> i'm ok with this being in the git history
23:34 < kanzure> even if in a few days we choose to delete some branches
23:34 < kanzure> i'd especially like to ask mark about them
23:34 < fitzsim> for example, in the original repo, you can follow what went on on the branches/bruce_070405
23:34 < kanzure> well no
23:35 < fitzsim> but in the git repo conversion there's no commit history on that branch
23:35 < kanzure> only one thing went on there (creating a new branch)
23:35 < fitzsim> no
23:35 < kanzure> nothing was done after
23:35 -!- nsh[cgi] [520c731b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.12.115.27] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:36 < fitzsim> that's what shows up in the git repo, just one src directory with some files in it
23:36 < nsh[cgi]> scott aaronson: opinions?
23:36 < kanzure> look: https://polosims-svn.browse.cvsdude.com/polosims/branches/cad/bruce_070405/src/GLPane.py?view=log
23:36 < fitzsim> but try doing an svn checkout of branches/bruce_070405, cd to it, then do an svn log
23:36 < fitzsim> and you see the commit history on that branch
23:36 -!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@219-71-202-171.cable.dynamic.giga.net.tw] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:36 < kanzure> nsh[cgi]: i heard of him sometime in 2009.. didn't write anything down about him though :(
23:36 < QuantumG> soo.. hot
23:37 < kanzure> fitzsim: yes i know but look closer
23:37 < kanzure> fitzsim: the latest commit is r9410
23:37 < QuantumG> might have to turn on the AC
23:38 < nsh[cgi]> he's apparently proved interesting results on the strength of post-selected quantum systems in terms of complexity classes
23:38 < nsh[cgi]> on the other hand, he has given talks on the same platform at eliezer
23:38 < kanzure> fitzsim: the latest productive commit on branch bruce_070405 corresponds to 75ec8d5f8309a3be19fee192782dbaa1d89918ec
23:39 < kanzure> fitzsim: and *then* r9410 which is where they created the branch
23:39 < kanzure> so they never committed after creating the branch
23:39 < kanzure> meaning everything was done previously
23:39 < kanzure> in fact, the diff from before it was a branch and to where it was a branch is nil
23:39 < kanzure> https://polosims-svn.browse.cvsdude.com/polosims/branches/cad/bruce_070405/src/GLPane.py?r1=6933&r2=9410
23:41 < kanzure> if there was more than 4 files in src/ we could have turned bruce_070405 into a tag and deleted the branch in git
23:41 < kanzure> but it seems that someone just checked out some files and decided to make a new branch because the svn workflow is amazingly fucked up
23:44 < fitzsim> kanzure: so in the SVN repo, is there any meaning to branches/bruce_070405/src ?
23:45 < fitzsim> kanzure: when I run svn log in there, it prints the entire repository's entire log history
23:45 < fitzsim> kanzure: how do I log just what happened on that branch?
23:45 < kanzure> jrayhawk: you might know that off the top of your head?
23:46 < kanzure> fitzsim: the meaning of bruce_070405 is something probably that only bruce knows.. or it's stuck in an email somewhere where he explains why it's important that bruce_070405 exists
23:46 < kanzure> btw there's a mailing list nanorex-all that was private to the developers
23:46 < kanzure> if i can get my hands on those archives we're golden for a lot of things
23:46 < kanzure> (i also need to deploy bugzilla next, or do something with that data)
23:47 < fitzsim> but bruce_070405 represents some line of development, that branched from mainline, did some commits, then merged back to mainline, right?
23:48 < fitzsim> in the trunk -> git conversion we'll see the merge patch as a commit
23:49 < fitzsim> and so the discussion is whether or not the intermediate commits that happened between the branch point and the merge commit can be thrown away
23:49 < jrayhawk> "Logs follow copy history by default.  Use --stop-on-copy to disable this behavior, which can be useful for determining branchpoints."
23:50 < fitzsim> for bruce_070405/src, --stop-on-copy just prints one log message
23:51 < fitzsim> "Moved remotely"
23:51 < kanzure> fitzsim: nobody commited to bruce_070405 ever
23:51 < fitzsim> does that mean this is a branchpoint with no subsequent commits on it?
23:51 < jrayhawk> apparently
23:51 < fitzsim> ok, weird
23:52 < fitzsim> do people generally delete SVN branches after they've been merged?
23:52 < QuantumG> never
23:52 < fitzsim> or will we see branches with branchpoints and merge points?
23:53 < QuantumG> unless someone writes "merged from <branch>" in the commit message then you don't know there's been a merge
23:53 < QuantumG> you can guess from the rev numbers, that's all
23:53 < fitzsim> ugh
23:53 < QuantumG> but if they merge and then keep committing on the branch, too bad
23:54 < QuantumG> and people regularly do shit like merge a branch onto another branch and fix all the conflicts.. in one rev
23:55 < QuantumG> my personal favourite is that svn has no "uncommit" .. you can revert your changes and commit again, but that's not exactly the same thing
23:56 < fitzsim> kanzure: ok, so bruce_070405 is an example of what you're talking about, where deleting the "branch" is essentially harmless
23:56 < kanzure> well, "mostly harmless"
23:56 < QuantumG> so if you want to enforce a policy like: don't check in unless your code compiles, asshole.. then too bad, cause once they commit you can't get rid of that revision and maintain a pristine commit history.
23:57 < fitzsim> let me try to find a branch with actual development on it
23:58 < QuantumG> whereas if they're using git you can email them and say "hey asshole, your code doesn't compile, git uncommit"
23:58 < QuantumG> of course, push and pull screws that anyway
23:58 < kanzure> fitzsim: cad-ninad_20070924_GGBC_experimental, cad-ninad_20070924_GGBC_experimental_2, cad-ninad_20071211_selectMode_split
23:59 < QuantumG> so yeah, it's a consistent problem and just slapping people is the only solution
--- Log closed Mon Nov 29 00:00:07 2010