--- Log opened Mon Dec 13 00:00:08 2010
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00:59 < Utopiah> are there more "serious games" like FoldIt or GalaxyZoo?
01:00 < Utopiah> (and Phylo)
01:02 < joshcryer> lol, the audio on this is cracking me the fuck up (cheap house made of pallets): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SLf3eSjXr4
01:04 < joshcryer> Utopiah, you named the only ones I know of
01:04 < joshcryer> galaxy zoo is a chore for me though
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01:10 < Utopiah> just asked the twitter crowd
01:14 < superkuh> There's a coronal mass ejection identifying game.
01:15 < superkuh> I think it was somewhat associated with GalaxyZoo, or at least modeled after it. I can't seem to find the URL, though.
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07:47 < dbolser> killall-9: you retract your question about dNTP?
07:48 < dbolser> sorry kanzure ^^
07:50 < dbolser> won't those permanant magnts wear out?
07:50 < dbolser> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAELukfr2oY
07:51 < phryk> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1333925/Elixir-eternal-youth-Scientists-reverse-ageing-process-landmark-trial.html
07:51 < phryk> I bet Aubrey de Grey is currently piss drunk because of this
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08:33 < kanzure> phryk: if you fuck up telomeres in mice and then unfuck-up the telomeres then of couse they will improe in condition..
08:33 < kanzure> *improve
08:33 < kanzure> *course
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08:36 < phryk> kanzure: Well but they do fuck up in humans, too after some time, don't they?
08:36 < phryk> yay snowstorm
08:37 < bdesk> phryk: yes but the trick is to see if you can make the mice healthier than normal, not just healthier than fucked up
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08:38 < bdesk> i haven't read the paper, but my understaning of kanzure's comments is that they haven't shown this yet
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08:40 < kanzure> bdesk: do you know anything about next-generation DNA synthesis techniques
08:41 < kanzure> i can't believe everyone is still using solid phase oligonucleotide synthesis methods
08:45 < kanzure> "On quick read it looks like they accelerated aging in the mice by knocking out telomerase and then reversed the accelerated aging by injecting/inducing telomerase.  The question is: Are these mice any better off than unaltered mice (true controls)?"
08:45 < kanzure> "Indeed. On the face of it (and leaving the mitos out of it), this sounds like an incredibly silly "discovery". Build a car without wheels. You can't drive it anywhere. Put the wheels on. Look! A miracle! Now you can drive it!"
08:46 < kanzure> "We published a paper last year showing that CR in mice (CR extends lifespan in this strain) substantially REDUCES telomerase expression (about 3-fold in liver, a proliferative tissue, http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0005242). This is further evidence that telomerase activity and telomere length are responsive to other aspects of biology and in most organisms (including humans) telomere length is probably a better 
08:46 < kanzure> "However--and this is a major caveat--in theory, short telomeres can limit lifespan in some individuals because natural selection is weak in older age and telomere length is one of those parameters for which there is little or no selective pressure to get just right."
08:46 < kanzure> "Therefore, the strong prediction is that telomere activation (either in healthy mice or humans) will increase mean and median lifespan by an amount that is difficult to predict, but it will not increase maximum lifespan--possibly even reducing it by increasing the risk of metastatic cancer in very old people who otherwise would have avoided it."
08:46 < kanzure> "Therefore, I have the opposite view from DePinho's: I don't think young people should take telomerase activators unless they know they have an inordinately large fraction of short telomeres. It is relatively old people who probably have the greatest benefit to risk ratio, but these are just wild guesses from both of us."
08:46 < bdesk> kanzure: sorry i don't know.  my coursework was too long ago and my research is too theoretical
08:46 < kanzure> "The only way to know for sure is to collect telomere length and mortality data on animals (including people) with and without administration of telomerase activators."
08:47 < dbolser> bdesk: yup, synth on slides or beads is currently the predominant method
08:48 < dbolser> not sure exactly how ion torrent works, but I think it's bead based synth first
08:48 < dbolser> perhaps not though...
08:48 < dbolser> kanzure: you have to bet they did that in mice bud didn't publish because it didn't work
08:49 < dbolser> it's half the experiment they did do (by the sound of it)
08:49 < dbolser> anyone linke the nature paper plz?
08:51 < kanzure> dbolser: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature09603.html
08:54 < kanzure> dbolser: know anyone who might know state-of-the-art in DNA synthesis?
08:54 < kanzure> screw this solid phase shit
08:59 < dbolser> kanzure: there are three or four 'state of the art' 
08:59 < dbolser> pacific biotech uses special wells
08:59 < dbolser> with dna pol embedded in the wells
08:59 < dbolser> google pacbio
09:01 < dbolser> dam, can't remember the name of it
09:01 < dbolser> the other is cambridge nanopore
09:01 < bdesk> 4th gen viriosequencing
09:02 < dbolser> ion torrent call their stuff 'postlight'
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09:04 < dbolser> then 'life' have 'dna sequencing on the surface of a quantum dot'
09:04 < kanzure> no i don't mean sequencing
09:04 < dbolser> a single molecule dna sequencing technology has been built onot the surface of a #10 nm quantum dot nanocrystal...
09:04 < dbolser> doh
09:04 < dbolser> just read your question again
09:04 < dbolser> no, there is nothing
09:05 < dbolser> you need to get busy with your dnapol typewriter
09:05 < dbolser> patent a better dna synthesis method and dollars will beat a path to your door
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09:14 < kanzure> dbolser: yeah, i dunno what good it is if you can read it but not write it
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09:19 < dbolser> kanzure: its good, to begin with
09:20 < dbolser> but it's only half the story
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10:38 < kanzure> lepht is pete.clark@gmail.com
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11:42 < kanzure> hi jmil 
11:42 < kanzure> what do you think about organovo?
11:43 < jmil> hi brian! it's pretty cool technology
11:43 < jmil> of course i think our strategy is better... but that remains to be seen =]
11:43 < kanzure> what's the difference?
11:44 < jmil> can't talk about it just yet, but hopefully we'll get this paper out relatively soon (next few months). then i will be talking it up a bunch
11:44 < jmil> tengeon (sp?) is also doing really awesome stuff
11:46 < kanzure> is there anything that you can talk about?
11:46 < bdesk> using the lungs of chinese dissidents
11:56 < jmil> bdesk: lol
11:56 < jmil> kanzure: you mean in particular or in general?
11:58 < bdesk> jmil: anything at all.  he just wants some dirt for his meetlog database.
11:58 < jmil> meetlog database?
12:00 < bdesk> sorry i'm just trolling now, i don't have anything useful to contribute to the discussion.
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12:07 < kanzure> haha
12:07 < kanzure> jmil: i just wanted to hear about tissue printing stuff :(
12:07 < jmil> cool ya i love this topic
12:07 < jmil> in general we are using a makerbot and a mendel to engineer large-scale 3D cellularized tissues
12:07 < jmil> i think we have the highest cell density reported so far
12:08 < jmil> but that's all i can really say
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12:08 < jmil> hplusplus =]
12:09 < kanzure> do you have vascularization fixed/down
12:12 < jmil> ya
12:13 < jmil> depends on how you define it, but ya
12:15 < kanzure> so what can you say
12:16 < jmil> that's it =]
12:16 < kanzure> this is boring
12:19 < jmil> sorry
12:22 < jmil> i'll be the first to tell you science is tedious and slow. but somehow i still love it.
12:25 < kanzure> i don't see what that has to do with not having anything to talk about
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12:35 < jmil> the time from discovery to publication is very very long. if i could just do a blog post and get recognized as the developer of the technology that would be great. but the old guard of science only takes slow, tedious peer reviewed publications in long-standing journals. your entire career is based on this principle. so you have to delay talking about things until they get published in peer-reviewed journals if you want to be part of a
12:36 < jmil> it's very unfortunate
12:40 < archels> jmil: Got any recent refs?
12:41 < archels> also you got cut off at "if you want to be part of a"
12:42 < jmil> if you want to be part of academia
12:42 < jmil> it's very unfortunate
12:42 < jmil> archels: http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~chenlab/pubs.html
12:43 < jmil> none of it covers the large scale 3d tissue culture yet, but most of the foundations are there
12:43 < archels> jmil: No arxiv preprints then? :P
12:44 < jmil> what?
12:44 < jmil> i don't get it
12:44 < archels> also which of 100 publications do I want to read?
12:50 < jmil> there's only two of which i'm author, jordan miller
12:50 < jmil> i'm *an* author
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13:02 < kanzure> archels: yeah for some reason people don't understand arxiv
13:07 < jmil> will you explain it to me kanzure archels 
13:10 < kanzure> hot damn http://transhumanistwiki.com/wiki/Polymerase
13:10 < kanzure> jmil: arxiv is a preprint server that publishers are OK with users uploading preprints to
13:11 < jmil> peer reviewed?
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13:24 < kanzure> jmil: no.. they are preprints
13:24 < kanzure> http://arxiv.org/
13:25 < jmil> oh ya that wouldn't work for my field
13:26 < kanzure> uhuh
13:26 < kanzure> why not?
13:27 < QuantumG> publishing at a conference is the worst
13:27 < QuantumG> AIAA for example
13:28 < QuantumG> they require you to declare that your work has not appeared in print before, and assign your copyright to them.
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13:29 < kanzure> most publishers do, but they are evil and will burn
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15:25 < kanzure> jmil, what else is up
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15:51 < jmil> kanzure: just assembling a thingomatic
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16:57 < kanzure> hi klafka 
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17:18 < kanzure> hi zeneth, wrldpc2 
17:18 < kanzure> wrldpc2: n55
17:18 < kanzure> http://n55.dk/
17:18 < kanzure> sorry i couldn't remember last time
17:19 < wrldpc2> n55 yeah!!
17:21 < kanzure> zeneth: what brings you to these parts?
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17:24 < zeneth> i've come in order to kill bio-tech, it's a stain on humanity
17:26 < wrldpc2> ha
17:26 < kanzure> huh.
17:27 < wrldpc2> you sound suicidal
17:27 < kanzure> what's your plan?
17:27 < wrldpc2> that's a suicidal statement.
17:27 < wrldpc2> also, you've misspelled zenith.
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18:16 < kanzure> hi zeneth0 
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19:08 < joshcryer> http://www.contourcrafting.org/
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19:13 < kanzure> joshcryer: that sounds like an awful weight loss program
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 14 00:00:07 2010