--- Log opened Fri Jan 07 00:00:05 2011
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03:06 < joshcryer> geohot shows loading signed data on PS3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkLSXsCKDkg
03:07 < joshcryer> eg, win.
03:08 < joshcryer> Latest firmware PS3 I should say. Basically Sony cannot do anything about the 50+ million PS3s out there because all the software is dependent on the now broken key signing method. This will never be fixed until PS4.
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06:02 < kanzure> "Automatically find and download PDFs given only PMIDs ¶" http://dev.davidsoergel.com/trac/pdftank/
06:03 < kanzure> "Provides a server that proxies PDF searches and caches the found PDFs (e.g., could be useful for a research group to share a bunch of papers)"
06:09 < kanzure> De Novo Designed Proteins from a Library of Artificial Sequences Function in Escherichia Coli and Enable Cell Growth
06:09 < kanzure> abstract: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0015364
06:09 < kanzure> pdf: http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObjectAttachment.action;jsessionid=4C113C56B3F47B4F2F794E3EC9843F55.ambra02?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0015364&representation=PDF
06:11 < kanzure> processor's and moore's law http://www.thefulfillment.org/chatlogs/112010_MooresLaw.htm
06:12 < kanzure> the 'singularity studies' course from rutgers has recordings up (but using elluminate.com/some java crap)
06:12 < kanzure> https://docs.google.com/View?id=dcnbnm5x_1025hsnhccc7&pli=1
06:15 < kanzure> normothermic perfusion system for 3d tissue printing http://www.hhmi.org/bulletin/aug2010/features/cell_cultures.html
06:15 < kanzure> watch out, there's multiple hidden pages.
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06:28 < AlonzoTG> om
06:37 < kanzure> timschmidt: i need me some 3d printed keyboards
06:37 < kanzure> and not the qwerty kind
06:38 < AlonzoTG> I'm using a microcrap natural keyboard...
06:38 < AlonzoTG> remapped to a dvorak layout. =P
06:38 < AlonzoTG> but it's a mega-shitty membrane design internally.
06:39 < kanzure> yeah not cool.
06:40 < AlonzoTG> spilled some milk on it once and I had to totally re-build it. =\
06:40 < kanzure> i really like the idea of alternative keyboards
06:40 < AlonzoTG> Even dell keyboards have fluid channels.
06:40 < kanzure> 'data hands' doesn't particularly bring any advantages
06:40 < kanzure> http://www.compkeyboard.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/WindowsLiveWriter/ComputerKeyboardofTheFuture_F50/Data-Hand-Keyboard%5B9%5D.jpg
06:40 < AlonzoTG> I still have an old split keyboard I bought back in '97, the contacts are corroded though... logged 2 million keystrokes on that thing!
06:41 < AlonzoTG> there is the kinesis keyboard but it's weird and pricey.
06:41 < kanzure> looks like yet another ergonomic-qwerty clone
06:42 < kanzure> http://bc.tech.coop/blog/images/kinesis-layout.jpg
06:43 < AlonzoTG> hafto hit the road, going to the bank, gonna set aside another $710 for my robotics project and convert a substantial portion of my savings for my electric car project to gold.
06:43 < kanzure> there's also the maltron.. http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2009/05/15/maltron-lefthand-keyboard1_oSrQO_17621.jpg
06:44 < AlonzoTG> I have the extremely good fortune of having two fully operational hands.
06:54 < kanzure> fenn: ping. don't crap out on me :x
06:56 < kanzure> timschmidt: so, i figure guitar players commonly do more than 12 movements per second
06:56 < kanzure> 12 characters per second is about what i max out at when typing on qwerty
06:56 < kanzure> with the right keyboard design i'm wondering if that can be bumped up to 20 cps
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07:08 < fenn> don't get your panties in a wad, jeez. am i not allowed to sleep?
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07:14 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
07:17 < fenn> jaydugger, don't you normally get up much earlier?
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08:05 < Lukas____> Good morning
08:08 < JayDugger> Good morning, Lukas.
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08:33 < delinquentme> ITS GOOOOOOD TO BE ALIVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
08:33  * delinquentme :D
08:40 < Lukas____> ?
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08:54 < gloop> http://idle.slashdot.org/story/11/01/07/1444242/DIY-FireHero-Project  this gave me the idea to do instead A real DIY fire extinguisher tech
08:56 < gloop> or at least suggesr
08:56 < gloop> suggest*
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09:11 < delinquentme> kanzure, and anyone else .. looking for a code minimizer???
09:14 < fenn> i want a code maximizer
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10:00 < fenn> so wait a minute, we still don't use any compression at all on non-image web content?
10:00 < fenn> by "we" i mean the human race
10:01 < Utopiah> CPU vs. transfert, I say it's an ISP conspiration
10:03 < fenn> i dont get why a 'code minimizer' would exist at all
10:04 < fenn> apparently gzip compression has been standard since netscape 3
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10:32 < Lukas____> Have you guys heard about the recent mass deaths of birds around the world?
10:37 < strages> yeah, odd stuff
10:37 < Lukas____> really odd stuff
10:37 < Lukas____> I would assume it was some sort of new avian flu
10:38 < Lukas____> but that doesn't explain the fish
10:38 < Lukas____> or crabs
10:40 < Lukas____> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110107/ap_on_sc/us_sci_dead_wildlife_fact_check
10:40 < Lukas____> which makes me feel slightly better
10:40 < Lukas____> ... slightly
10:40 < Utopiah> http://www.who.int/csr/don/en/
10:43 < Lukas____> O>o
10:43 < Lukas____> O.o
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11:36 < timschmidt> kanzure: design away, I'll print
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13:05 < fenn> ho um. tell me what you think timschmidt https://gist.github.com/770096
13:06 < kanzure> fenn@users.sourceforge.net what?
13:06 < kanzure> 'skdb spec 0.0.0' definitely should be 'skdb open source hardware spec' or something in the title
13:07 < fenn> this is a pastebin
13:09 < kanzure> data format: package: naming conventions, how about -. and lowercase-only ?
13:10 < fenn> - fucks up python package names, i dont see a reason to have both - and _
13:10 < fenn> . is acceptable
13:10 < fenn> lowercase only is possibly fascist
13:10 < kanzure> i don't know if these should be python packages or not
13:10 < fenn> well, you're wrong
13:11 < fenn> have to write the code in some language
13:11 < kanzure> "the code" what code, though?
13:11 < fenn> the code that actually does something with this data
13:11 < fenn> this is supposed to be a functioning system, not OCD compliant art
13:11 < kanzure> specifying that a package must start with an alphanumeric might be nice btw
13:12 < kanzure> __~~~EASY-EEG~~~~__<3__JACOB_ShIaCh.git
13:12 < kanzure> hahah
13:14 < kanzure> how pissed off would you be if people ignore yaml tagging and python script writing?
13:14 < kanzure> so far getting them to put CAD files or openscad scripts in git repos has been a challenge itself
13:14 < fenn> the package just wouldn't work, and it wouldnt pass the (hypothetical) validator
13:15 < fenn> but it's still better than having photos of crayon drawings posted as comments to a blog
13:15 < fenn> i guess i should write more about desired data formats
13:16 < kanzure> nah let's be realistic.. iphone pics of crayon drawings posted as attachments sent to diybio@googlegroups.com :P
13:16 < kanzure> at the very least, python scripts that have a class representing the object should be optional..
13:17 < kanzure> (in which case metadata->required->classes should be moved to metadata->optional->classes)
13:17 < kanzure> do you strongly believe dependencies should be optional??
13:20 < fenn> if classes are required for the package to work, it should be in the metadata
13:20 < fenn> if the package has no code, there are no classes required
13:21 < kanzure> "if you think it has no dependencies you are probably wrong"
13:21  * fenn writes more about templates
13:22 < kanzure> why is this on pastebin?
13:22 < fenn> where do i push skdb.git to these days?
13:22 < kanzure> diyhpl.us:/srv/git/skdb.git
13:23 < fenn> oh, that's gnusha?
13:23 < kanzure> yes
13:23 < kanzure> gnusha.org still works.. sorry about the confusion
13:23 < fenn> yeah my irssi/screen is running on gnusha
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13:24 < kanzure> hrm skdb.git doesn't seem to be managed by piny.. so if you have some trouble pushing due to permissions i'll go fix things
13:28 < fenn> error: insufficient permission for adding an object to repository database ./objects
13:28 < kanzure> now the real challenge: should i just switch to piny or should i chmod/chgrp the hell out of things
13:28 < kanzure> chattr too i guess
13:31 < fenn> i dont think chmod/chgrp ever worked right, as when you add new objects they eventually end up in new directories which are not set g+wx by default
13:32 < kanzure> ok try pushing now
13:32 < fenn> there must be some other solution than piny because this seems like a common problem and piny is not very popular
13:32 < fenn> ok
13:32 < kanzure> probably gitosis *shrug*
13:33 < fenn> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/doc/package_spec.yaml
13:33 < kanzure> or gitolite https://github.com/sitaramc/gitolite/
13:33 < kanzure> fenn: again, what's with the sourceforge.net email address?
13:33 < fenn> um, so when i start getting a zillion spam messages a day i can turn it off?
13:34 < fenn> it forwards to my regular email
13:34 < fenn> this file will be in plaintext on the web
13:35 < kanzure> oh in 43ac59374f14f6a5b0b546257405b211deab86a1 it seems that i decided i hated periods in package names
13:35 < fenn> i dunno how all these free software people deal with spam
13:35 < kanzure> i was probably doing that because of a silly web front-end though
13:35 < fenn> silly web front-end is a valid use case
13:35 < fenn> i dont really see any reason to allow stupid names with punctuation in them
13:35 < kanzure> well silly because of some choices i made about the url parsing.. anyway
13:36 < kanzure> linux-kernel-image-2.6.32?
13:36 < fenn> exactly
13:36 < kanzure> reprap-darwin-3.0holycrapwehaveversionnumbers
13:36 < fenn> why the fuck is there a version number in the package name
13:36 < kanzure> so you can get older releases
13:36 < fenn> you can already do that
13:36 < kanzure> oh right. linux-kernel-image=whatever
13:36 < fenn> apt-get install linux-image=2.6.32
13:37 < fenn> i can almost see the rationale for names like libc6
13:37 < kanzure> oh btw what about BOMs
13:38 < fenn> uh. i think the idea is to be able to specify a particular part in another package, which will contain more info about it like how to make it or where to buy it
13:38 < fenn> i hate BOM's which are like "you need this mouser part number" and have no wiggle room
13:39 < kanzure> dependencies::build states that it's not for BOM-entries so where should it be put?
13:39 < kanzure> i agree that putting down parts numbers isn't the most useful thing in the world in terms of options
13:39 < kanzure> but
13:39 < kanzure> people do have this information and providing it wuold be nice
13:40 < fenn> yeah but that should go with the part you're referring to, not as a reference in and of itself
13:40 < kanzure> in reality i bet we'll only be able to get them to provide .csv files instead of their spreadsheet files
13:40 < kanzure> i imagine there are many potential BOM entries that packages don't exist for yet
13:41 < fenn> well, you have to write down a description somewhere... might as well be a package
13:41 < kanzure> reprap.git presently has all sorts of crap that should be separated
13:41 < kanzure> true, but for many people these repos will be the only way they are distributing their project
13:42 < kanzure> and BOMs do provide some amount of information whether you want to admit this or not..
13:42 < fenn> i dont get it. what are you suggesting exactly?
13:42 < kanzure> something be added to package_spec.yaml about BOMs
13:42 < fenn> yeah i didnt get there yet
13:43 < kanzure> oh i thought you were arguing why BOMs shouldn't be in the spec
13:43 < fenn> well, i was sorta, if you mean "here is a list of part numbers you need to make this thing"
13:44 < fenn> it really ought to be "here are a list of possible package choices for this part" and each package can be made to spit out its dependencies recursively
13:44 < fenn> i'm thinking of a package as a part family
13:44 < fenn> something that can be parameterized for different applications but is fundamentally the same idea
13:45 < kanzure> oh man the lack of metadata is killing me http://www.inventables.com/technologies/micro-suction-adhesive
13:45 < kanzure> on the other hand, fenn,
13:45 < kanzure> we have people like reprap-core-team or whatever who have no interest in splitting off their subprojects
13:45 < kanzure> like for individual servos or pcb boards etc.
13:46 < kanzure> (hrm i guess pcb board designs should be in the same package)
13:46 < kanzure> so people are going to (1) not include a BOM since it's not demanded and (2) also not create lots of extra crap packages that they care less about
13:46 < fenn> reprap core is precisely the people who need this
13:47 < fenn> they have like 75% design reuse but it's copied all over the place with tiny modifications
13:48 < Lukas____> Sorry to interject, but is this a good website?         http://projecteuler.net/
13:48 < fenn> Lukas____: if you like nerd traps
13:48 < Lukas____> xD
13:48 < Lukas____> nerd traps?
13:48 < kanzure> you should go play some netwar games or something haha
13:48 < fenn> Lukas____: http://xkcd.com/356/
13:49 < fenn> forewarned is forearmed
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13:49 < kanzure> czar fenn
13:49 < Lukas____> :D
13:50 < Lukas____> thanks for the warning
13:50 < fenn> in your case though it'd probably do some good
13:51 < fenn> hard to keep all these new people straight
13:51 < kanzure> i need to put meetlog.txt parsing on a recurring cronjob
13:52 < Lukas____> ?_?
13:54 < kanzure> Lukas____: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/plain/meetlog.txt
13:54 < fenn> huh, apparently there's another ben lipkowitz i didnt know about, taking the total up to 3?
13:57 < kanzure> i'm not sure if this the first explicit name conflict i've had in meetlog.txt or not
13:57 < kanzure> there's a Andrew Bishop <andrew@well.com> that i know via ken goffman
14:01 < kanzure> so uh fenn why is this a yaml file?
14:08 < kanzure> should i bother editing this or are you still making enough changes that the merge conflicts would be a pain in the ass?
14:09 < fenn> it's a yaml file because i started writing it and it sort of looked like a yaml file
14:10 < fenn> i decided learning restructured text was best used as a procrastination tactic for later projects
14:10 < kanzure> good idea
14:10 < fenn> edit away
14:10 < fenn> i wish there were something like etherpad for github
14:11 < kanzure> http://github.com/ether/pad
14:11 < kanzure> not quite the same thing :(
14:16 < fenn> inventables is consistently overpriced
14:22 < kanzure> huh i wrote an skdb/legos tutorial?
14:22 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/~bryan/irc/skdb-tutorial.html
14:23 < kanzure> not much text there
14:23 < kanzure> probably why i didn't put it anywhere
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14:33 < kanzure> fenn: how do you want to go about plural vs. non-plural dictionary keys in yaml?
14:35 < fenn> uh, systematically
14:35 < kanzure> huh? i mean, maintainers vs. maintainer, and other issues
14:35 < kanzure> "dependency" vs. "dependencies"
14:35 < fenn> well i was thinking about it, and there really should only be one maintainer
14:36 < fenn> if it's possible to have more than one of something, the field name should be plural
14:36 < kanzure> the field name should be plural by default?
14:36 < kanzure> except for package maintainer?
14:37 < fenn> seems to be that way already
14:37 < fenn> what's the point of dual licensing? is it something i should care about?
14:39 < fenn> am thinking i should remove bit about dual licensing
14:40 < kanzure> btw when i made it so you can commit i transferred skdb.git into piny so now there's ikiwiki stuff going on
14:40 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/skdb/ for now
14:40 < fenn> anyway are you done editing yet
14:40 < kanzure> i'll update apache so gnusha.org/skdb/ can work (which is, i think, a better url for this)
14:40 < fenn> what does piny do exactly?
14:41 < kanzure> provides a set of minor tools like addaccess, rmaccess for adding people/committers to repositories
14:41 < kanzure> gives them a restricted shell (pinyshell) for git-only access and other piny tools
14:41 < fenn> and do we really want to put the code in a web-editable repository? (no)
14:41 < kanzure> you were complaining about skdb not having a web presence
14:42 < kanzure> anyway, ikiwiki isn't configured to let anyone edit the pages/code from that interface anyway
14:42 < kanzure> (you have to be fenn or bryan)
14:42 < kanzure> hold on let me think of a useful commit message
14:43 < kanzure> ok pushed.
14:48 < kanzure> fenn: what line width are you using? line 121 seems a little long
14:48 < kanzure> or: Something seems broken
14:51 < fenn> i dont have automatic line wrapping on, i havent bothered to figure that out yet
14:52 < kanzure> lol paul fernhout is penpals with freeman dyson
14:52 < kanzure> he replies too.
14:52 < kanzure> i can think of some better things to bring to dyson's attention though.
14:52 < gloop> i wrote to him before and wrote me
14:52 < kanzure> like "oh your biotech predictions were correct.. sort of"
14:53 < fenn> i'm still waiting on full spectrum chlorophyll
14:53 < kanzure> or "where's my von neumann probe, astrochicken, or dyson sphere you promised us"
14:53 < fenn> yeah, screw jetpacks
14:53 < fenn> WHERE'S MY DYSON SPHERE
14:53 < kanzure> "our biotech future" http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20370
14:54 < kanzure> "Open Source biology could be a powerful tool, giving us access to cheap and abundant solar energy." so much for dyson spheres
14:54 < fenn> well it's only 2011
14:55 < kanzure> the man gives up early? say what
14:55 < kanzure> heh
14:55 < gloop> i wrote to him about his wikipedia entry on his views academia and business
14:56 < gloop> yes but there's https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Space-based_solar_power
14:56 < kanzure> why are you guys spamming him?
14:56 < fenn> no i mean we still have 89 years for his predictions to pan out
14:57 < gloop> i didn't. i wrote to him a couple years ago
14:57 < gloop> just a couple times
14:57 < kanzure> i wish carl feynman wasn't so reclusive.
14:58 < kanzure> OH CRAP
14:58 < kanzure> http://www.aleph.se/Trans/
14:59 < fenn> d'eaux
14:59 < kanzure> i should have scraped a copy
14:59 < kanzure> Anders Sandberg <anders.sandberg@philosophy.ox.ac.uk>
14:59 < kanzure> god what the hell is he doing hanging out with nick bostrom
14:59 < kanzure> he's definitely capable of way more
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15:03 < fenn> hm this is still up http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/
15:03 < kanzure> crap http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.aleph.se/Trans/ :(
15:04 < kanzure> "Anders' Transhuman Page" is the one that matters sorta
15:04 < fenn> i dont remember that
15:04 < kanzure> "data retrieval error" on the wayback machine :/
15:04 < fenn> data retrieval error
15:04 < kanzure> fenn: it's been the best resource on transhumanism since forever
15:06 < kanzure> here: http://web.archive.org/web/20080724041257/www.aleph.se/Trans/
15:07  * kanzure scrapes
15:07 < superkuh> Ah. I remember this site.
15:07 < superkuh> I think it was one of the first I encountered on the subject.
15:08 < fenn> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nHeZRfCFiUsJ:www.aleph.se/Trans/+aleph.se/Trans&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
15:08 < kanzure> crud all of his links are relative links
15:08 < fenn> how does one scrape the google cache?
15:09 < kanzure> one does not navigate google cache effectively.. if you find a page, you're lucky to find is neighbors
15:09 < kanzure> *its neighbors
15:09 < kanzure> wget --base doesn't seem to help
15:12 < fenn> i guess i could click on every 'cached' link on http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=+site:aleph.se+aleph.se/Trans&sa=X&ei=sJ0nTeHWMcqr8AaLhPDqAQ&ved=0CAIQqAQwBQ&fp=ca05a7bb65e82229
15:12 < fenn> but that seems kinda dumb
15:13 < superkuh> http://www.removead.tu2.ru/
15:14 < superkuh> Oh. It doesn't work.
15:14 < superkuh> Nevermind.
15:14 < fenn> looks like it might have worked at some point
15:14 < superkuh> They've run out of disk space for temp files.
15:19 < Lukas____> Hey guys
15:19 < Lukas____> I have a random word of advice
15:19 < Lukas____> DO NOT HAVE KIDS
15:19 < Lukas____> thanks for listening
15:19 < Lukas____> :D
15:22 < fenn> i think you should put more effort into choosing your audience
15:22 < Lukas____> sorry guys
15:22 < Lukas____> it just had to be said
15:24 < kanzure> file:///h:/alephweb/Trans/Tech/General
15:24 < fenn> was that on purpose?
15:24 < kanzure> just a link i found on his site *shrug*
15:24 < kanzure> (threw off my scraper)
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15:25 < fenn> you're scraping google cache? or what?
15:25 < kanzure> web.archive.org
15:25 < fenn> i thought archive wasn't working
15:25 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/2008/www.aleph.se/Trans/
15:25 < kanzure> picking a date helps
15:25 < kanzure> (sometimes)
15:26 < fenn> hm weird. so their date index thingy was having problems
15:26 < fenn> oo with pictures even
15:26 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/anders-links.txt
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15:27 < kanzure> oh fooey i'm not sorting for uniqueness entirely because of the dates in the urls
15:27  * kanzure grumbles
15:28 < fenn> hey maybe you should make a version control history of the site
15:28 < fenn> then put it up on gnusha as a hardware package
15:28 < fenn> transtech.git
15:29 < kanzure> what's a good regex for a 14-digit number
15:29 < fenn> i really hate how chrome truncates urls longer than like 20 characters
15:29 < fenn> web.archive.org/web/.../index.html
15:29 < kanzure> haha 20 characters isn't enough
15:29 < fenn> gee thanks
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15:30 < kanzure> fixed http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/anders-links.txt
15:31 < kanzure> :%s/\(\d\{14}\)/2008/g
15:33 < fenn> apparently python re doesn't like {14}
15:34 < fenn> oh nm i was using groups() wrong
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15:41 < fenn> your "delete the 14 number element of the url" strategy won't work because most of the files can't be downloaded by simply adding web/2008/
15:41 < fenn> or they werent indexed in 2008 or something
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15:43 < kanzure> i think this is a good enough approximation of publicly linked files
15:43 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/anders-links.txt
15:43 < kanzure> (updated)
15:44 < kanzure> fenn: internet archive treats /20080101/ as a request to just go find the closest matching date it can
15:44 < kanzure> instead of that silly index page where you click dates
15:44 < kanzure> cat links6.txt | grep aleph | grep -v "#" | sort | uniq | sed 's/www\.aleph\.se\.wstub\.archive\.org/web\.archive\.org\/web\/2008\/www\.aleph\.se/' | sed 's/\([0-9]\)\{14\}/2008/g' | sort | uniq > links7.txt
15:44 < kanzure> evidence that i am getting lazy
15:47 < kanzure> oh fooey
15:47 < kanzure> since when does it 404 on providing a timestamp
15:49 < fenn> suppsedly 27686 pages on aleph.se
15:49 < kanzure> i wonder how i grabbed these links if all of the pages are erroring
15:52 < fenn> i only got 32 out of the 207 links
15:52 < fenn> maybe it's just that archive is being flaky
15:55 < kanzure> archive.org hasn't indexed my site since 2008 (or at least, hasn't claimed it has indexed my site)
16:03 < fenn> they delay posting results on purpose
16:04 < kanzure> i was able to get the 2008 stuff on internet archive for heybryan.org back in 2008.
16:06 < kanzure> fenn: were you going to push changes?
16:10 < fenn> "You can pack the Zip Drive up and take it wherever you want. It gives you unlimited hard-drive capacity. I should have bought my own by now, but maybe I'll get one for Newtonmas (Newtonmas is the transhuman winter holiday. Sir Isaac Newton was born Dec. 25.)
16:11 < kanzure> festivus for the rest of us
16:12 < fenn> festivus makes me think of stoners pigging out on cheetos
16:16 < ybit> cheetos you say?
16:17 < ybit> http://battleofthecheetos.com/
16:17 < ybit> ignore the opening phrase about cheetos, and this video might make you happy
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16:28 < fenn> seems to be some kind of real time strategy game
16:28 < fenn> extremely sluggish one at that
16:32 < ybit> i was checking out how various sites embed video and stumbled across this
16:32 < ybit> i like the 'battle for the internet' part, that's all :)
16:33 < ybit> ..with little cheetos hopping around, it's kind of funny :)
16:34 < kanzure> video is usually embedded with lots of stupid flash
16:34 < kanzure> hopefully html5 will fix this
16:37 < gloop> yeah it doesn't run on my netbook fast
16:38 < gloop> is it made by the cheeto company
16:38 < gloop> viral marketing?
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16:39 < fenn> do you really have to ask...
16:40 < gloop> http://wonder-tonic.com/goodwillhunting/
16:42 < fenn> i suppose this would be interpreted as funny if i had seen that movie
16:42 < fenn> then again, maybe not
16:43 < fenn> oh i see, 4chan fallout
16:44 < gloop> there's a youtube clip, but seeing the whole movie maybe makes it funnier
16:45 < gloop> https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBEQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXOVS_SYyXe8&ei=sLMnTamHId_mnQeH3ZSuAQ&usg=AFQjCNHbVvHhOhdGDXqjpi1sQtt1KMYskw&sig2=W2EGzxTEYRhN-4Ua-n8KDw
16:48  * fenn pokes cia
16:51 < kanzure> was i the one that configured cia?
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17:07 < kanzure> fenn: people will probably be doing really funky things in dependencies->software.. like asking for python eggs, ruby gems, debs, rpms, etc. :/
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17:16 < kanzure> jrayhawk: is there any particular reason /srv/git/skdb.git/hooks/post-update is a binary file?
17:16 < jrayhawk> Yes, it needs to be suid.
17:17 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i was going to enable http://cia.vc/clients/git/ciabot.pl
17:17 < kanzure> which is in /home/gnusha/scripts/ciabot.pl
17:17 < kanzure> but now i am confused.
17:19 < jrayhawk> Ah, I don't know what version of piny you're on. You might have to move the ikiwiki wrapper over to post-update-ikiwiki (and in /etc/ikiwiki/piny/skdb.setup) and put CIA in post-update-cia and then make a new post-update that calls those two.
17:20 < kanzure> is post-update presently the ikiwiki post-update?
17:20 < jrayhawk> Unless you've done something else.
17:20 < kanzure> no
17:25 < AlonzoTG> om
17:26 < jrayhawk> Modern piny has the ability to rebuild setup files; if you upgrade to that, you'll want to use pinyconfig to set the location of the post-update script in the git config and then rebuild.
17:27 < kanzure> should i be storing my custom post-update files somewhere other than skdb.git/hooks then?
17:27 < kanzure> 'd be a shame if something were to overwrite all 10sec of my work..
17:29 < jrayhawk> You might want to link it somewhere else.
17:29 < jrayhawk> like post-update-kanzure or something
17:31 < kanzure> is there a convenient way to check this without significantly fucking up git?
17:33 < jrayhawk> I'll go take a look at it...
17:34 < jrayhawk> you still need to change the setup file
17:34 < jrayhawk> and you'll want absolute paths for post-update
17:35 < jrayhawk> is update-server-info really necessary for anything?
17:39 < kanzure> which setup file in particular?
17:40 < kanzure> how do i make sure post-update-ciabot gets the parameters it wants?
17:43 < kanzure> my query: 'git "post-update" ciabot'
17:43 < kanzure> google gives me: http://gnusha.org/logs/2009-07-18.log
17:45 < ybit> http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/wiki/Conference_Recordings
17:50 < jrayhawk> The parameters are environment variables, IIRC
17:50 < jrayhawk> so you should be fine.
17:50 < jrayhawk> /etc/ikiwiki/piny/skdb.setup is the setup file in question
17:51 < kanzure> why do i need to change the setup file?
17:51 < jrayhawk> Ikiwiki will try to rebuild it at some point.
17:52 < jrayhawk> s/it/that wrapper/
17:52 < kanzure> oh hm you said that about 30min ago and it went out one ear
17:53 < kanzure> so i don't really understand what you're telling me to change in skdb.setup
17:53 < jrayhawk> You have moved the git wrapper.
17:53 < kanzure> if piny will rebuild post-update then we're all doomed?
17:53 < kanzure> oh right
17:53 < kanzure> but post-update calls post-update-ikiwiki
17:54 < jrayhawk> Yes. But you want post-update-ikiwiki to be the build product, not post-update.
17:54 < jrayhawk> The setup file will attempt to use post-update until you tell it to use post-update-ikiwiki
17:54 < kanzure> hmph fine
17:54 < jrayhawk> And you're right, ciabot probably expects parameters; use "$@"
17:55 < jrayhawk> With quotes.
17:57 < jrayhawk> For reference, piny does the same thing all over the place: cat /usr/bin/newrepo
18:05 < jrayhawk> oh no wait, maybe that's a terrible idea. ugh. nevermind, you're right.
18:07 < kanzure> huh?
18:07 < kanzure> my test commit didn't work anyway. hrm.
18:08 < jrayhawk> /usr/share/doc/git/contrib/ciabot/ciabot.py might also be of interest
18:09 < kanzure> oh it wants an smtp server to be running
18:09 < kanzure> that's a stupid way to pass commit messages around
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18:17 < jrayhawk> I'd suggest just loading a socket interface into irssi and having post-update echo crap into that socket.
18:17 < jrayhawk> Since you already have gnusha running here anyway.
18:18 < jrayhawk> I can play with making that work if you want.
18:18 < kanzure> cpan -I RPC::XML --> but ciabot.pl still complains that RPC/XML.pm isn't installed
18:19 < kanzure> oh uh that makes more sense
18:19 < kanzure> yes please do that
18:19 < jrayhawk> please stop using cpan
18:20 < jrayhawk> that system has enough problems
18:20 < kanzure> i guess debian probably has packages for most of the cpan modules?
18:20 < jrayhawk> Yes, and a system for building debian packages out of cpan modules anyway.
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18:21 < jrayhawk> cpan doesn't understand the concept of file tracking
18:21 < kanzure> neither does python's distutils (setup.py etc.)
18:22 < kanzure> their concept of 'uninstall' is "use setup.py to build a .deb and then use dpkg to uninstall the .deb"
18:22 < jrayhawk> haha, awesome
18:30 < jrayhawk> The ruby people got militant about their terrible packaging tools and drove one of the primary debian ruby maintainers to give up :(
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19:31 < kanzure> fenn: heh it's back http://web.archive.org/web/20080724041257/www.aleph.se/Trans/
19:32 < kanzure> i also really appreciate the hotbot search form.. takes me back to the 90s
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20:07 < kanzure> jrayhawk: thoughts/comments on http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/package_spec.yaml ?
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20:11 < timschmidt> it seems like skdb should have a solid concept of transformations - built-in or external commands / scripts / utilities that can be run against a given source file to produce a given result
20:12 < timschmidt> rendering a CAD file, converting between image formats, translating between interchangeable languages, toolpathing, etc.
20:12 < kanzure> what we were doing was python scripts in each package that would have a class describing extra methods and calculations for the part
20:13 < kanzure> fenn wants to put this into the spec more thoroughly
20:13 < kanzure> there are certain advantages to forcing python-- i.e., every .git skdb package is also a python module and can be imported
20:13 < timschmidt> sure.  No particular problem with that
20:13 < kanzure> on the other hand, you can make python modules via writing a wrapper for each .git skdb package and the wrapper just calls scripts to deal with the package contents itself (same result)
20:13 < timschmidt> I wonder to what level the code should reside entirely within the package though
20:14 < timschmidt> it might be useful to have some "built-in" methods, for lack of proper terminology
20:14 < kanzure> did you see the screw or lego packages?
20:14 < timschmidt> not yet
20:14 < timschmidt> anyway, implementation details
20:15 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/packages?id=7c5d86b5e179849c6b208abbfaf9485fbc4c5f8c
20:15 < timschmidt> not really necessary to argue over now
20:15 < kanzure> lego: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/packages/lego?id=7c5d86b5e179849c6b208abbfaf9485fbc4c5f8c
20:15 < kanzure> screw: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/packages/screw?id=7c5d86b5e179849c6b208abbfaf9485fbc4c5f8c
20:15 < kanzure> "screw.py" is what fenn is proposing we standardize/force for each package
20:16 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/packages/screw/screw.py?id=7c5d86b5e179849c6b208abbfaf9485fbc4c5f8c
20:16 < kanzure> however, there's no reasonable way (iirc) specify what the methods of "class Screw" should be
20:16 < timschmidt> I will look it over closer tonight
20:16 < kanzure> *to specify
20:16  * timschmidt is in the middle of some other programming
20:17 < kanzure> in the sense of knowing in advance which methods to look for that might give you some sort of result
20:17 < kanzure> (other than just looking through __doc__ strings and parsing out metadata, or using @wrappers that modify methods by adding particular attributes)
20:19 < timschmidt> right
20:50 < kanzure> 20:48:10 omg/jblake: yeah i'm not really going to think about that for now, but if you intend to distribute these packages then you probably don't want to store them as a git repo without a particularly good reason
20:50 < kanzure> 20:50:07 omg/jblake: a git bundle back to the initial commit is probably a way better package choice, especially as it still allows incremental updates in the way you'd d probably like to get out of a git repo
21:01 < kanzure> http://blogs.forbes.com/davidewalt/2011/01/07/the-makerbot-is-best-at-ces/
21:14 < gnusha> test
21:17 < kanzure> test test
21:19 < gnusha> test
21:20 < jrayhawk> So if you adduser bryan gnusha and relogin, you can echo 'command /msg ##hplusroadmap test' | socat STDIO UNIX-CONNECT:/home/gnusha/.irssi/socket
21:21 < jrayhawk> I can make that socket writable by anyone in the skdb group, or I can make a more restrictive sudo wrapper.
21:21 < jrayhawk> Up to you.
21:21 < kanzure> anyone in skdb group is fine
21:22 < kanzure> btw i also think hard coding a call like that in a post-update hook in skdb.git/hooks/ is fine
21:22 < jrayhawk> Yeah, that would be the plan at that point
21:23 < jrayhawk> There's theoretically a POSIX shell way of writing to sockets, but it's horrifyingly obscure so I'm just going to avoid it.
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21:33 < kanzure> http://blog.thingiverse.com/2011/01/03/2011-and-making-the-world/
21:33 < kanzure> http://blog.thingiverse.com/2011/01/07/openscad-modules-and-loops/
21:34 < jrayhawk> If you could push an arbitrary test commit, that'd be useful.
21:36 < kanzure> ok done
21:36 < jrayhawk> hmm, that's too bad.
21:36 < jrayhawk> Any errors?
21:36 < kanzure> not on this end
21:37 < kanzure> if you want to revert skdb.git so i could reuse this test commit instead of making increasingly worthless commits, that'd be cool.
21:38 < jrayhawk> I can turn off denyNonFastForwards and you can just push the older head.
21:38 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i'm about to fall asleep so i'm not too reliable right now
21:39 < jrayhawk> Okay, I can probably do that myself.
21:39 < kanzure> exponentially declining reliability curve
21:39 < kanzure> GIT_REPO=//dev/skdb.git/ git config repo.receiveDenyNonFastForward ZERO
21:40 < kanzure> one last thing before i sleep.. on duckduckgo.com, these are the two few results for "apt-get for hardware"
21:40 < kanzure> 1) texas linux fest 2010 | apt-get for hardware
21:40 < kanzure> 2) twitter.com/contraptor
21:40 < kanzure> 3) heybryan.org
21:40 < kanzure> 4) kanzure - MaiOtaku Anime Dating (WTF?)
21:41 < kanzure> 5) hackerspaces.org/wiki/Software_Wish_List
21:41 < kanzure> 6) michaelnielsen.org/blog/2009/10/
21:41 < kanzure> amusing.
21:44 < kanzure> http://www.student.nada.kth.se/~nv89-nun/offloading/trans_tech
21:44 < kanzure> fascinating.. duckduckgo.com found http://transhumanism.org/index.php/th/
22:10 < gnusha> 84ae223 i probably shouldn't be writing specifications this late at night
22:10 < jrayhawk> Eh, you can fiddle with it from there if you care.
22:15 < kanzure> thank you :)
22:15 < kanzure> links aren't fixed here but at least it's something:
22:15 < kanzure> http://anders.diyhpl.us/
22:16 < kanzure> or the files: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/backup_anders.tar.gz
22:16 < kanzure> in case you want all of the separate timestamped versions that the internet archive had: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/backup_anders_web.archive.org.tar.gz
22:20 < kanzure> hm i should have grabbed images
22:20  * kanzure sleeps
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22:26 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/20061026124118/www.benturner.com/genesis/poem_genesis.html
22:26 < kanzure> "(an epic poem of 10,000 lines about the terraforming of Mars. This scene describes a spaceship made of a living tree)"
22:27  * kanzure really sleeps
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--- Log closed Sat Jan 08 00:00:04 2011