--- Log opened Sat Jan 22 00:00:10 2011
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00:51 < sebastienb> night, all.
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01:20 < Lukas_> Good morning
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04:15 < Lukas_> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1180944/1/index.htm
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08:02 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/thingiverse_data.tar.gz i still need to run this thruogh skdb/clients/thingiverse.py to parse all the data
08:03 < kanzure> 23:14:05 omg/bryan: surely they know that by "you all suck" i mean "i love each and every one of you in your own special way" right?
08:04 < Lukas_> xD
08:04 < Lukas_> when was this?
08:04 < kanzure> 23:14:05
08:07 < Lukas_> last night, I assume
08:09 < Lukas_> I'm going to be afk (I am contacting Genspace)
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08:27 < kanzure> jrayhawk: hey uh, i should be keeping a debian mirror for packages
08:27 < kanzure> http://archive.amsuess.com/pool/main/o/opencsg/
08:27 < kanzure> http://archive.amsuess.com/pool/contrib/o/openscad/
08:27 < kanzure> https://m21.hyte.de/downloads/heekscad/ubuntu_10.04_2010-09-11/heekscad_0.14.1-svn1283_i386.deb
08:28 < kanzure> http://ftp.debian.org/pool/main/o/opencascade/
08:28 < kanzure> anyway.. where should i put these or is there a small tool i should be using for this?
08:29 < kanzure> plus the piny debs
08:30 < kanzure> hrm i wonder why openscad.deb depends on libcgal5
08:30 < kanzure> oh. duh.
08:45 < kanzure> meh http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-StirrerHot-Plate/
08:54 < superkuh> I like it!
08:55 < superkuh> (the hotplate/stirrer)
08:56 < superkuh> I wouldn't think the flux would go through.
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09:27 < Lukas_> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1180944/1/index.htm
09:27 < Lukas_> looks like Armstrong got busted
09:53 < kanzure> pygear "A python module that serves as CAE/CAD-preprocessor for involute gears based on pythonOCC. It allows for the computation of dynamic properties and the creation of exact geometries from a minimal input set."
09:53 < kanzure> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pygear/
10:31 < kanzure> ferrouswheel: looks like your buildbot is failing? http://buildbot.opencog.org/builders/opencog-full
10:38 < kanzure> debarchiver was a waste of time.. in the mean time here's a set of .debs for heekscad/freecad/opencascade/nanoengineer/etc.
10:38 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/packages/
10:54 < jebba> moin
10:55 < kanzure> hi jebba
10:56 < jebba> started some assembly of a Makerbot cupcake: http://www.alephobjects.com/photos/printers/makerbot/cupcake/
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11:32 < thesnark> hey kanzure
11:42 < kanzure> hi thesnark
11:42 < kanzure> hi rumb42
11:42 < rumb42> o/ kanzure - just watching to see what's in here  ;)
11:42 < kanzure> rumb42: /topic points to logs btw
11:43 < rumb42> ah - thanks!
11:45 < kanzure> jrayhawk: is there an ikiwiki plugin that would conceivably replace cgit?
11:55 < delinquentme> have any of you guys seen input devices that rival the speed ( or exceed ) that of a keybaord?
11:55 < delinquentme> i've heard there are xbox style "controller" which can be used as keyboard inputs
11:56 < kanzure> stenography machines
11:56 < kanzure> chorded keyboards
11:56 < kanzure> acceleratometer gloves
11:59 < kanzure> jrayhawk: what's the point of using ikiwiki if cgit is "dynamically generated" anyway?
11:59 < delinquentme> anything with the specific purposes of preventing repetative stress injury .. which could be coded with?
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13:21 < kanzure> hi keen_101, elmom
13:31 < jrayhawk> because HEAD is the thing basically everyone actually cares about
13:32 < jrayhawk> cgit's compile products would be a lot less irritating if cgit were to check timestamps of its dependencies
13:32 < jrayhawk> s/its/their/
13:33 < jrayhawk> I could sortof understand making a configurable set of diffs available inside of ikiwiki
13:34 < jrayhawk> and having 'revert' buttons available for them
13:34 < kanzure> thrpp screw it i'll just write dynamically-generated stuff and get it done in under a week..
13:34 < kanzure> then complain for the next 5 years about infrastructure scaling issues
13:35 < jrayhawk> okay. if you clone piny-code and ./builddebs inside of it, all the commands should be properly noninteractive now
13:35 < jrayhawk> so you can actually call them safely in executable form in an automated manner
13:36 < kanzure> cool
13:36 < kanzure> the way that github does multiple user authentication is kind of funny now that i think about it
13:36 < kanzure> "all users must push via git@github.com:/username"
13:39 < jrayhawk> the git user probably has a magic shell that works out that nonsense dynamically
13:39 < jrayhawk> re: debian mirror: debian.svcs.cs.pdx.edu is already sitting on the same box as you; if you want i can just add stuff to the rsync list
13:40 < kanzure> that would be nice of you
13:40 < jrayhawk> What's missing from it?
13:41 < kanzure> the packages are in gnusha:/home/bryan/public_html/irc/packages/
13:41 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/packages/
13:41 < AlonzoTG> My internet was down for 18 hours beginning Midnight last night. But since I am not an upload, I was able to fix it.
13:41 < AlonzoTG> If I were an upload I'd be effectively dead with no way to do anything.
13:42 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: because uploads can't use /dev/servo? you're silly
13:44 < AlonzoTG> =\
13:44 < AlonzoTG> Why does my computer always wait until Friday evening to break?
13:45 < jrayhawk> uh... so... what am i mirroring
13:46 < jrayhawk> this does not appear to be a debian repository
13:46 < kanzure> yeah i gave up with debarchiver
13:46 < AlonzoTG> What the hell are you talking about?
13:46 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: read the logs or shutup
13:46 < kanzure> geeze. :P
13:46 < AlonzoTG> Why are you talking about version control archives in a transhumanist room?
13:46 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: more importantly, why aren't *you*?
13:46 < AlonzoTG> I try to skim the logs but they make no sense to me.
13:46 < jrayhawk> hahaha this room is for ineffectual prognostication only
13:47 < jrayhawk> NO ACCOMPLISHING THINGS ALLOWED
13:47 < AlonzoTG> Please zoom out a layer of abstraction,
13:47 < AlonzoTG> What project are you working on?
13:47 < kanzure> Operation Joe Hosts Lots of Bryan's Random Debs
13:47 < jrayhawk> ah, so you want a repository rather than a mirror
13:48 < kanzure> doi? i don't know what i want here- just that these should be in the same place and easy for others to grab
13:48 < AlonzoTG> Please zoom out a layer of abstraction and explain to me what you are working on.
13:48 < AlonzoTG> I don't even know which repository you are talking about,
13:48 < AlonzoTG> what's in it,
13:48 < AlonzoTG> or why it's relevant to this channel.
13:49 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: these are the orphaned .debs
13:49 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/packages/
13:49 < kanzure> opencascade, heekscad, freecad, nanoengineer, openscad
13:49 < jrayhawk> I don't really have the patient to run a parent repository, so, yeah, go ahead with whatever you want to do on gnusha
13:50 < jrayhawk> Jules has done quite a bit of repository-creation, though, so you might be able to interest him in it.
13:50 < jrayhawk> s/patient/patience
13:50 < AlonzoTG> http://sourceforge.net/projects/ktechlab/
13:50 < AlonzoTG> Do any of those packages do anything interesting?
13:51 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: nanoengineer is open-source nanotech CAD; opencascade is a CAD kernel for 3D mechanical engineering; etc.
13:51 < AlonzoTG> I'm not smart enough to use those effectively.
13:51 < AlonzoTG> =\
13:52 < AlonzoTG> Or rather I project it would not be time effective for me to work on those because it would be 10,000 times more efficient to sic an AI on the problem.
13:52 < kanzure> uh, just read the documentation?
13:52 < kanzure> lol 10,000 times more efficient to use something that doesn't exist?
13:52 < kanzure> jrayhawk: ok
13:53 < uniqanomaly_> haha, good one
13:53 < AlonzoTG> Yes, because my project would require me to understand approximately 2,000,000 different organic molecules, my human brain is not capable of processing that much information so therefore I require an AI to do it.
13:53 < jrayhawk> nanoengineering is mostly done with non-reactives
13:54 < AlonzoTG> Yes, but does it actually work?
13:54 < AlonzoTG> =P
13:54 < AlonzoTG> Not yet.
13:54 < kanzure> nanoengineer's older snapshot works
13:54 < AlonzoTG> But that's applying 19th century machine technologies to a 21st century problem.
13:54 < kanzure> http://fitzsim.org/packages/NanoEngineer-1-1.1.1.12-0.3.fc12.src.rpm
13:54 < kanzure> http://nanoengineer-1.com/snapshots/NanoEngineer-1_Suite_v1.1.1.14.exe
13:54 < kanzure> http://nanoengineer-1.com/snapshots/NanoEngineer-1_Suite_v1.1.1.12.tar.gz
13:55 < jrayhawk> man, you took my 'ineffectual prognostication only' edict way too seriously
13:55 < kanzure> jrayhawk: are you trying to say i should stop feeding the troll?
13:56 < AlonzoTG> Does the package have a website? Can I actually use the software for anything?
13:56 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer
13:56 < AlonzoTG> That is not to say I don't applaud the effort,
13:56 < kanzure> http://nanoengineer-1.net/
13:56 < kanzure> if you like pictures: http://nanoengineer-1.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=50
13:57 < jrayhawk> Jonano at least had specific goals in mind when he was being irritatingly disruptive.
13:58 < kanzure> becoming a billionaire?
13:58 < jrayhawk> He very clearly cared about his poorly-thought-out projects.
14:00 < AlonzoTG> OK, I guess I don't have anything useful to say about nanotechnology. =(
14:01 < AlonzoTG> My problem is that there is nothing I can do with that software except produce pretty pictures.
14:01 < AlonzoTG> So therefore I find it difficult to find anything interesting about it.
14:01 < kanzure> ok then get to work: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/freitas_process.txt
14:02 < kanzure> http://www.molecularassembler.com/Nanofactory/Challenges.htm
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14:03 < AlonzoTG> Yeah, nanotech has been promising for decades, I even joined a group called the "nanotechnology dream team" about 13 years ago.
14:04 < AlonzoTG> but then I can't see it ever becoming practical without AI, Indeed, drexler even proposed an AI system to advance the design of his nanotech in Engines of Creation written so many years ago.
14:05 < kanzure> did you read either of those two links?
14:05 < AlonzoTG> I'm looking at the second one.
14:06 < kanzure> just finished uploading: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/bacteriorhodopsin_memory/
14:09 < AlonzoTG> Hmm,
14:10 < AlonzoTG> Now that the cobwebs on that side of my brain are starting to clear, it seems plausible that it might be possible to nano-fabricate computer parts on a scale of less than 1cm^3
14:10 < AlonzoTG> Those might be extremely effective...
14:11 < AlonzoTG> And any fabrication process that could yield good volume and cost less than about half a gigaclam to capitalize could make you a mint... That's about all you could do with it though,
14:11 < AlonzoTG> Because logic gates are relatively simple and have simple structures.
14:11 < AlonzoTG> You would need to understand a ton of quantum mechanics though...
14:12 < AlonzoTG> But large scale products are pretty much out of the question until you have AI...
14:12 < AlonzoTG> That can deal with all the messyness.
14:12 < kanzure> what messyness?
14:12 < kanzure> what is it with you and ai? just assume it doesn't exist and solve the problem
14:12 < Lukas_> xD
14:12 < AlonzoTG> <<< is too lazy.
14:13 < Lukas_> Don't underestimate the power of the collective human mind
14:13 < AlonzoTG> Moot cuz I don't have access to any minds other than my own. =(
14:14 < Lukas_> :(
14:14 < Lukas_> ...
14:14 < Lukas_> in that case, your best bet is AI
14:14 < Lukas_> :P
14:14 < AlonzoTG> In other news, I have 6 ounces of gold and change saved up for my NAO, I expect to need the worth of 11 ounces...
14:15 < AlonzoTG> After that I'll need the server...
14:15 < AlonzoTG> Which will cost about 13 ounces of gold...
14:18 < AlonzoTG> U know what would change the world?
14:18 < AlonzoTG> A 1-nanosecond memory cell!
14:18 < AlonzoTG> That is not any bigger than today's D-ram cells.
14:30 < Lukas_> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/gene-therapy/Gene%20therapy%20for%20red-green%20color%20blindness%20in%20adult%20primates%20-%202009.pdf
14:30 < Lukas_> isn't working
14:31 < kanzure> what's not working about it
14:32 < Lukas_> "Failed to Load PDF Document"
14:32 < kanzure> what pdf client are you using?
14:33 < Lukas_> Adobe
14:40 < keen_101> hi, kanzure. (i was away from my computer)
14:44 < keen_101> out of curiosity i tried it too. the pdf doesn't work for me either. (gnome document reader)
14:47 < jrayhawk> that's because it's html that says <title>IIS 7.0 Detailed Error - 404.0 - Not Found</title>
14:47 < jrayhawk> kanzure's scrapers apparently don't check for status codes
14:48 < kanzure> gee that's a good reason for it to fail, isn't it
14:48 < kanzure> hrm
14:49 < jrayhawk> the 'file' utility can be useful for working out which are broken
14:58 < kanzure> ok should be fixed now
15:06 < Lukas_> thanks
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15:13 < AlonzoTG> OK, so how does fiddling with the tiny number of atoms the human brain can comprehend fit into your quest for total world domination?
15:14 < thesnark> Obvious. Control at the atom level means a finer grain of control, so he can control all humans more easily.
15:14 < thesnark> It may also make controlling other humans cheaper
15:15 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: have you ever used avogadro's number for anything?
15:15 < AlonzoTG> It seems my brain is suffering the after effects of my recent bout of internet deprivation. =(
15:15 < thesnark> kanzure is our infallible leader, like Kim Jong Il only for his special quest to create Calxism
15:15 < AlonzoTG> Yes, that's my point.
15:16 < AlonzoTG> Today's computers can only count to around 10^18th, so it would seem that they would have difficulty dealing with that many atoms...
15:16 < AlonzoTG> Actually 1.6 * 10^19 to be exact.
15:17 < AlonzoTG> So for objects larger than a few cm^2, you're asking your computer to be atomically precise about a number of atoms larger than it can count...
15:18 < thesnark> 10^18 is only 64 bits...
15:18 < AlonzoTG> Yep...
15:18 < AlonzoTG> I use a 64 bit computer.
15:18 < kanzure> algorithmically creating atomically precise structures is pretty easy even if you can't count each atom
15:18 < kanzure> a drilling bit easily has many trillions of atoms, but you don't see solidworks crashing
15:18 < thesnark> 1) Architectures supporting > 64 bits have been created 2) It wouldn't be too big of a stretch to design your own 3) larger counts are achievable in parallel
15:19 < thesnark> You may have to deal with the data a little differently
15:19 < thesnark> but you can count higher than that
15:19 < kanzure> some of the nanoengineer people want to visualize ridiculous numbers of atoms simultaneously, but i'm not sure that's ever really needed.. maybe visualizing a few 100k's of atoms at once, but beyond that you don't "see" atoms any more
15:19 < AlonzoTG> Yeah, I'm aware of some of the techniques, You abstract away regularly structured sub-assemblies.
15:20 < AlonzoTG> or use fractal patterning.
15:20 < thesnark> so 10^23 is really not such a big deal
15:20 < AlonzoTG> 6.04 * 10^23...
15:20 < AlonzoTG> =\
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15:21 < thesnark> I'm not a retard, I was ballparking
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15:23 < AlonzoTG> But yeah, a 1-nS high-density ram cell could really change the world,
15:23 < AlonzoTG> It could multiply the performance of today's computers on large dataset problems by a factor of ten, instantly!
15:25 < AlonzoTG> Actually, to really max out my current chip, it would be awesome to have a few terabytes of 300 pS RAM on
15:25 < AlonzoTG> -chip
15:26 < AlonzoTG> I'll have to double-check the architectual limits of my chip...
15:26 < AlonzoTG> but yeah, that should be feasible with only a few hundred layers of cells on a square cM of space...
15:27 < AlonzoTG> -- basically replace the die area devoted to L3 cache.
15:27 < AlonzoTG> and external memory interface...
15:27 < kanzure> ok well get back to me when you're done building your semiconductor fab for that
15:28 < AlonzoTG> It would be a double benefit to the 6000 series opteron because the chip was limited by a 2,000 pin budget, if both the 128 bit memory controllers never had to talk to anything outside the module, that would make things much easier.
15:28 < AlonzoTG> !!!
15:28 < AlonzoTG> I thought that was the entire point of your work in nanotech?????
15:30 < AlonzoTG> I thought you were talking about nanotech and the clearest short-term goal for nanotech are computer parts, and the easiest sub-unit of a computer to work on is the D-RAM because all you need to do is figure out how a cell works, and then multiply it by a few trillion...
15:31 < kanzure> truly you have a dizzying intellect
15:31 < AlonzoTG> So what the fuck are you working on anyway? (this is far from the first time I've asked you this)
15:32 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/skdb/ is a pretty good interview
15:32 < kanzure> overview
15:35 < AlonzoTG> I guess that might be useful...
15:35 < AlonzoTG> I don't have any machine tools,
15:35 < AlonzoTG> nor enough needs to justify obtaining machine tools (not counting the space limitations of a townhouse).
15:36 < AlonzoTG> and the needs I do have seem to exceed the capabilities of the machine tools I can obtain...
15:36 < AlonzoTG> I am in the process of spending $400 to have a spline cut in a shaft coupler to turn the input shaft on my project car's transmission.
15:37 < AlonzoTG> Another problem is engineering and fabricating a motor mount...
15:39 < AlonzoTG> When you get to a problem such as "fab me a GF", then there seem to be a hundred sub-problems that seem to come before dealing with pushing blue-prints around.
15:39 < AlonzoTG> Not that I'm saying your work isn't valuable, it is, it is just not something I can get into right now, because I have a ton of other work in front of me.
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15:41 < Lukas_> Is everyone here working on something?
15:42 < thesnark> Have a project in mind?
15:48 < Lukas_> Yes, but it can't really be done right now
15:48 < Lukas_> afk (chores)
16:00 < keen_101> kanzure, interesting work with the skdb stuff. I've seen you mention it before, but i guess i just never took the time to figure out what it was. The video helped a lot.
16:00 < keen_101> what hardware do you already have personally?
16:08 < kanzure> most of the stuff i have access to is community-owned or whatever
16:08 < kanzure> but i do "personally own" a laser cutter and robotic arm i guess
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16:29 < Lukas_> Hullo
16:43 < jebba> kanzure, you know of any good collaborative project management/todo-list?.   Would be nice to tie into a skdb workflow for making an object.
16:43 < kanzure> basecamp :P but it's not free software
16:44 < kanzure> openpario
16:44 < kanzure> http://openpario.mime.oregonstate.edu/
16:50 < Lukas_>     By any chance does anyone have the genome pdf of AAV2 (or any type of AAV)?
16:53 < jebba> openpario built on http://www.redmine.org/
16:56 < Lukas_> Kanzure, this is for your archive on gene therapy:  http://kaylab.stanford.edu/manuscripts/BLOOD99Russell.pdf
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17:06 < kanzure> jebba: did that help?
17:06 < kanzure> Lukas_: what is a "genome pdf of AAV" ?
17:07 < kanzure> do you mean one of those plasmid maps?
17:10 < Lukas_> yes
17:10 < Lukas_> or ' AATTGCGTATG'
17:11 < kanzure> oh, no, bioinformatics people are smarter than that- they don't publish genomes in pdf format
17:11 < kanzure> instead they use plain text
17:11 < Lukas_> O.o?
17:11 < kanzure> look it up on one of the ncbi subsites
17:11 < Lukas_> alright
17:11 < Lukas_> thanks
17:17 < Lukas_> wow, that was easier than I thought
17:17 < Lukas_> ...
17:18 < Lukas_> still, I'd be nice to have a pdf
17:22 < rumb42> import into openoffice, export to pdf ?
17:23 < jebba> kanzure, i'm creating an install to install redmine right now.
17:24 < AlonzoTG> I'd tend to use a bit compacted coding, with 3 letters per byte...
17:24 < AlonzoTG> maybe 4
17:24 < AlonzoTG> cuz you only got 2 bits worth of info per letter, max!
17:25 < AlonzoTG> I'm still missing the big picture....
17:26 < AlonzoTG> Ppl seem to be talking about nanotech and home fabrication but I still don't grasp the connection to transhumanism...
17:26  * AlonzoTG goes AFK to watch a bunch of classic Star Trek.
17:27 < thesnark> If people have the materials to create transhuman tech on their own...it is helpful to people who want to be transhumanists
17:28 < AlonzoTG> I guess, I just feel that I'm too many decades away from being able to use such tools that I have great difficulty caring.
17:28 < thesnark> Then don't care
17:28 < fenn> did ion torrent just recently un-stealth or something? why did i never hear of this?
17:29 < thesnark> Any movement has to start somewhere
17:29 < kanzure> fenn: they are the result of a merger with life science technologies methinks
17:29 < kanzure> fenn: but yes they were just launching.. stuff
17:29 < kanzure> gournea was hanging out in here for a while; he apparently works for them
17:29 < fenn> the videos don't work.. meh
17:30 < kanzure> 'Mark Maxham' just posted on twister.. apparently he works at pacific bio. cool
17:30 < fenn> they say each nucleotide is incorporated "in a matter of seconds" - okay, that's really slow with n=1 so how many wells do they have per chip?
17:30 < fenn> and what's the max read length
17:30 < kanzure> i hear about 2M wells per plate lately..
17:31 < kanzure> don't have a citation for you though
17:31 < kanzure> dbolser: you might know..
17:33 < fenn> today i received topps lolcats stickers (with requisite fossilized bubble gum) as a gift
17:33 < fenn> copyright 1982!
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17:51 < kanzure> timschmidt: svn co https://reprap.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/reprap/trunk/users/erik/stl2web
17:51 < kanzure> timschmidt: i'm wondering if this was originally erik's handy work
17:51 < kanzure> r3317 | erikdebruijn | 2009-10-15 05:10:54 -0700 (Thu, 15 Oct 2009) | 2 lines
17:51 < kanzure> "Added my STL2WEB tool to SVN."
17:52 < kanzure> no revision history though so it doesn't matter
17:54 < timschmidt> http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/software/#stl2pov this guy seems to have been hacking on it for some time
17:54 < timschmidt> many changelog entries
17:55 < ferrouswheel> kanzure: buildbot has been borken by a couple of tests for a while
17:56 < ferrouswheel> but hopefully will be fixed soon now that we have a few people working full time on it
17:58 < kanzure> full time workers? are these ben's new xiamen uni students?
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18:09 < kanzure> timschmidt: wow the rendering quality is significantly less than i recalled..
18:10 < kanzure> lots of work to do
18:16 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/wineglass.stl
18:16 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/wineglass.png
18:16 < kanzure> for anyone following along at home.. git clone git://github.com/timschmidt/stl2pov
18:17 < kanzure> compare to: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1224
18:17 < fenn> use multiple light sources
18:17 < fenn> also, the scaling sucks
18:18 < kanzure> http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/34/57/db/d4/1e/wineglass_display_medium.jpg
18:18 < timschmidt> it does
18:18 < fenn> also, that's not the same model
18:18 < fenn> thingiverse probably uses "ambient" lighting
18:18 < kanzure> true.. but setting up a grid, better colors, etc. is a good idea
18:19 < fenn> the grid is stupid
18:19 < timschmidt> right
18:19 < fenn> a bounding box with actual dimensions might be useful (like emc does)
18:19 < timschmidt> fenn: why do you say?  it's nice to have a point of reference for size
18:19 < kanzure> haha what's the size/scale of the grid?
18:19 < timschmidt> 1cm grids would be nice
18:19 < timschmidt> IDK about thingiverse's grids
18:20 < kanzure> fenn: screenshots or it's not real?
18:20 < kanzure> emc box thing
18:20 < timschmidt> better yet would be a dynamic grid with grid size that made sense for the model sie
18:20 < timschmidt> size
18:21 < kanzure> for stl it's not easy to determine size.. for other file origins i'm sure i'll extract dimensions
18:21 < timschmidt> ? somehow STLs I generate from myriad applications all come out appropriately sized when printed.
18:21 < timschmidt> there must be a convention
18:22 < fenn> don't see any off-axis shots, but it works in any orientation http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/axis-lathe-mm.png
18:22 < kanzure> oh, actual text deliminating the dimensions,    yeah
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18:28 < kanzure> i wonder if it would be more productive to say screw it and just use webgl
18:29 < kanzure> gah emails from/to me and rsmith.. from 2009 :/
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18:31 < fenn> i dont understand why you need to use pov-ray for this
18:31 < fenn> is there really nothing that takes an stl input and generates an image with standard flat shading?
18:32 < kanzure> headless opengl with GL_SHADING?
18:34 < kanzure> rsmith's camera suggestions http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/stl2pov/rsmith-camera.txt
18:35 < kanzure> opencascade + yafaray.. probably not better than povray http://code.google.com/p/occray/
18:35 < fenn> forget about raytracers
18:36 < kanzure> i have never had opengl working without xorg
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18:38 < fenn> how about http://sourceforge.net/projects/viewstl/
18:39 < fenn> i was looking at meshlab too
18:39 < kanzure> yeah i use viewstl.. it's opengl btw
18:40 < fenn> is it not possible to use opengl without X?
18:41 < fenn> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9v2qe/opengl_on_a_headless_server/
18:41 < kanzure> this might just mean "without a monitor"
18:43 < kanzure> "On a headless server you could use Xvfb, the X Virtual Framebuffer. It's basically a "virtual" X server that runs without X. I believe the Ubuntu package is just called xvfb (in Fedora it's called xorg-x11-server-Xvfb)"
18:44 < kanzure> jrayhawk: you work with friggin' bart massey, don't you know weird/obscure xorg related things like this?
18:44  * fenn mumbles something about http://www.virtualgl.org/About/Introduction
18:45 < fenn> okay xvfb sounds about right
18:47 < fenn> software opengl will still be a zillion times faster than raytracing
18:47 < kanzure> xorg-x11-server-xvfb seems to depend on xorg?
18:48 < kanzure> in an ideal world, hardware-accelerated opengl would not require xorg at all
18:48 < fenn> meh
18:48 < fenn> do you need xorg for gpgpu stuff?
18:52 < kanzure> jules suggests osmesa
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18:54 < fenn> "Mesa fbdev/DRI drivers"
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18:54 < fenn> hah okay osmesa is probably what we want
18:55 < kanzure> joe/jules help run x.org i figure they should at least have some non-negligible chance of knowing what they are talking about
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18:57 < kanzure> http://www.mesa3d.org/osmesa.html heh yep
18:58 < jebba> kanzure, set up http://projects.alephobjects.com/ as a test install of redmine
19:02 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure it's just a ruby-based git hosting platform..
19:02 < kanzure> nothing to write home about :P
19:02 < kanzure> jrayhawk is making piny, and others are cgit, gitweb, gitorious, gitosis, etc.
19:03 < kanzure> actually gitorious might interest you..
19:03 < jebba> ya, i use gitorious github etc.   But redmine is a totally different fish.
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19:04 < jebba> redmine  is what runs that URL you suggested earlier  http://openpario.mime.oregonstate.edu/ (and now http://projects.alephobjects.com/  too)
19:04 < kanzure> openpario has some extra stuff on top of redmine iirc
19:05 < kanzure> also i know the openpario guys / they are ridiculously easy to approach (michael david koch in particular)
19:05 < kanzure> they probably have their source up for download somewhere.. or if not they will hand it out
19:06 < jebba> ya, likely they've done lots on it as they have  a pretty extensive site, but this looks decent
19:08 < fenn> techzone is selling printed kits now?
19:09 < jebba> yes, i got a prusa from them
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19:09 < fenn> what is "techzone modified" exactly? did they provide the source files?
19:11  * timschmidt operated the MiRUG booth, next to the techzone folks, at Maker Faire Detroit
19:14 < timschmidt> They were reasonably friendly...
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19:27 < jrayhawk> Actually it's rare that I help out with any fd.o stuff directly.
19:27 < kanzure> do you at least take credit where it's undue?
19:28 < jebba> fenn, yes they provided files AFAIK. Check the huxley page on reprap wiki
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19:51 < delinquentme> kanzure, you wouldn't happen to know this antonei csoka fellow would you?
19:52 < kanzure> i don't think so.. who is it?
19:52 < delinquentme> one of the guys on your video .. hes a bio gerontologist from u pitt
19:53 < delinquentme> erm your hplus videos
19:55 < kanzure> are you sure that's the spelling fo his name?
19:55 < kanzure> you might be thinking of Attila Csordas but he's not really a gerontologist..
19:56 < kanzure> fenn: https://github.com/certik/osmesa/blob/master/test.py
19:56 < kanzure> i wonder where it's rendering to?
19:56 < delinquentme> http://diyhpl.us:9000/s/exploring-life-extension-imminst-film-part-1-11 @ 634
19:57 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonei_Csoka
19:57 < delinquentme> 6:34 .. hes just commenting on the
19:57 < delinquentme> yeah^
19:58 < fenn> "Mesa's off-screen rendering interface is used for rendering into user-allocated blocks of memory"
19:59 < kanzure> fenn: see write_ppm https://github.com/certik/osmesa/blob/master/osdemo.c
19:59 < fenn> presumably this is accessible by some function in osmesa.something_ctx
19:59 < kanzure> blah
19:59 < kanzure> yeah
20:00 < kanzure> "write red, write green, write blue" hehe
20:00 < fenn> "of course it's documented, in C"
20:01 < kanzure> i'm not sure if this is ondrej certik (sympy certik)
20:02 < kanzure> Ondřej Čertík.. guess so.
20:02 < fenn> looks quite active on femhub
20:03 < kanzure> "FEMhub is an open source distribution of scientific computing codes with a unified Python interface. Use the link on the left to see the current list of codes included. "
20:03 < kanzure> i wish someone would put a stop to calling these programs and algorithms "codes"
20:03 < kanzure> i know it's leftovers from the 50s/60s but come on, someone has to realize that it just doesn't work like that any more
20:04 < fenn> that's how you know it's super scientific and numerical
20:04 < kanzure> that's how you know it's fortran and should be burned
20:06 < fenn> i wonder if github can display more than 99 repositories or if that's some sort of artificial limit
20:06 < fenn> or maybe he just has 99 repositories
20:07 < kanzure> so is it in github's best interest to encourage or discourage forking? lots of people "fork and forget" on github
20:07 < fenn> "forking" isnt quite the same in git
20:08 < fenn> most of what's on github amounts to patch submissions
20:08 < fenn> they probably have some backend that only stores the diffs
20:08 < kanzure> yeah, if you click 'fork' with their button
20:08 < fenn> but you can fit a lot of code duplication on a 1TB drive
20:09 < fenn> 2TB drives are now below $100
20:09 < fenn> i wonder if kurzweil has a clock showing the amount of various commodities you can purchase for $1000
20:10 < kanzure> does that mean i can now get a 1995 copy of the web from the internet archive?
20:10 < fenn> if you ask nicely
20:11 < kanzure> i'd be willing to donate money to internet archive if they weren't a single point of failure.. or flaky..
20:12 < jebba> kanzure, may i suggest adding "shop" as a place where fabrication occurs, which may be more that 1 in a project.  e.g. shop in CZ has laser, shop in DE has welding iron, etc.
20:13 < fenn> jebba why do all your demos require a login?
20:13 < jebba> ya, wayback machine is so slow, i wish it was google speed then it would be fun :)
20:13 < jebba> fenn, cuz they are actually live and in use
20:14 < jebba> but if you want to check them out /msg me and i can set you up
20:14 < fenn> you can't just turn off editing for anonymous users?
20:14 < jebba> to our bank account? etc.
20:14 < fenn> your bank account?
20:14 < fenn> i thought this was inventory management
20:14 < jebba> well, for frontaccounting, which was one i set up here.
20:15 < kanzure> fenn: jebba dropped me some usernames/passwords for his demos :P
20:15 < jebba> well, inventory management as part of an accounting package. That is frontaccouting, which i set up awhile back. Just now i set up redmine, which is more project management gantt charts, wikis, etc.
20:16 < jebba> though i think it would be cool to have a public view of frontaccounting with obvious things removed (e.g. account numbers)
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20:19 < kanzure> wait what was jblake doing in here
20:20 < kanzure> blah so now the trick is to do good opengl rendering
20:21 < timschmidt> *shrug* povray seems plenty fast
20:22 < timschmidt> but OK
20:22 < timschmidt> brb
20:41 < kanzure> fenn: and you have something against povray?
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21:24 < fenn> i forget
21:25 < kanzure> :(
21:25 < fenn> it just seems like an unnecessarily huge thing just to render some triangles
21:25 < fenn> i thought there was a package called stlviewer, but it seems to have disappeared entirely
21:50 < kanzure> there's always doing something like.. http://cloud.netfabb.com/
21:50 < kanzure> http://cloud.netfabb.com/index.php?key=587bb2a1e0a2a9b83d5b9c011b6678291958
21:51 < kanzure> http://cloud.netfabb.com/render/587bb2a1e0a2a9b83d5b9c011b667829-3179/render64_3.jpg
21:52 < kanzure> http://cloudscad.com/stl_viewer
21:54 < delinquentme> kanzure, ever use IRB with the 'net/ssh' gem?
21:54 < kanzure> oops i mean
21:54 < kanzure> http://cloudscad.com/pages/stl_viewer
21:54 < delinquentme> i apologize this is DEFINITELY something for #ruby-lang but no one there has a clue
21:54 < kanzure> delinquentme: i don't do a lot of rails development
21:54 < delinquentme> check.
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21:56 < kanzure> hm stl_viewer is doing a blazing fast 2 fps
21:57 < kanzure> http://github.com/tbuser/three.js/blob/master/examples/stl_viewer.html
21:57 < kanzure> http://github.com/D1plo1d/CadCanvas
21:57 < kanzure> http://www.d1plo1d.com/cad_canvas/examples/gcode_canvas.html
21:58 < kanzure> http://github.com/D1plo1d/three.js
21:58 < kanzure> timschmidt: do you know if there's anything newer than that stuff?
22:01 < fenn> i dont think it's appropriate to rely on a web service, or on something not open source
22:01 < fenn> also, we do need images, not only a 3d javascript thingy
22:05 < timschmidt> no idea
22:06 < timschmidt> I believe tbuser is responsible for cloudscad though
22:06 < kanzure> three.js/raphaeljs are kinda the new hotness
22:06 < timschmidt> stlviewer does 40fps for me
22:06 < kanzure> i do think a mobile html5 app for thumbing around objects would be nice, but fenn's right.
22:06 < timschmidt> on my intel 965 laptop
22:07 < timschmidt> certainly
22:07 < timschmidt> but we might be able to get the source?
22:07 < kanzure> huh? it's javascript- just view the page's source
22:07 < timschmidt> well there you go
22:07 < kanzure> and if not it's not anything too complicated to replicate.. webgl yo
22:07 < kanzure> or the javascript stuff.
22:08 < fenn> one nitpick about that js thing, it only rotates around one axis
22:09 < kanzure> ooh you want multiple axes.. mr. technology over here
22:09 < kanzure> hehe
22:10 < timschmidt> haha
22:10 < kanzure> so goddamned demanding
22:11  * fenn decides not to elaborate on his immersive environment head tracking idea
22:11 < kanzure> because it's patent pending?
22:12 < fenn> no, out of spite
22:12 < kanzure> of my unidimensional ways?
22:13  * kanzure sleeps
22:13 < kanzure> 'night
22:13 < timschmidt> night
22:16 < fenn> i think this guy is reading your mind http://www.linux.com/community/blogs/blogger/Oliver%20Marks/
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22:22 < fenn> for all you magnet junkies http://fennetic.net/irc/jawish_subdermal_magnetic_implants.pdf
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22:55 < fenn> i dont get why google goggles only works from a phone
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23:57 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/stl_viewer.png  kinda slow, maybe could use some normal python optimizations... pygame oughta be able to save to disk no?
23:58 < fenn> er, save a screenshot
--- Log closed Sun Jan 23 00:00:10 2011