--- Log opened Mon Feb 14 00:00:10 2011
00:06 < joshcryer> Is "On the viability of the Open Source Development model for the design of physical object" really what qualifies for a thesis these days?
00:07 < joshcryer> Or: did Erik de Bruijn get his Masters or is he still studying? >:P
00:08 < joshcryer> Cynicism aside, I just finished reading it tonight, and it's a nice overview of the situation.
00:09 < joshcryer> Though we will have to see if we're at the bottom of the s-curve or if it's about to flaten out as some other RepRap-like technology comes along.
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00:17 < HeLLeHathNoFury> Hello
00:17 < Technicus> HeLLeHathNoFury: There you are!
00:17 < HeLLeHathNoFury> Here I am.
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00:21 < joshcryer> Are you a woman scorned?
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06:28 < kanzure> joshcryer: i've seen worse theses
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10:00 < kanzure> http://theendtimesarehere.com/2011/02/04/mike-treder-day-two-%E2%80%94-%E2%80%9Cgoverning-tech%E2%80%9D-4/
10:01 < kanzure> is a review of a recent conference.. had a few things about diybio, synthetic biology, pcsbi people, etc.
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10:34 < kanzure> does anyone know where i can get arm-eabi-gdb?
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10:44 < kanzure> nevermind.
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13:43 < strages> if only it were this easy https://github.com/msporny/dna/pull/1
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13:53 < kanzure> strages: that's not a genome
13:53 < kanzure> try ftp://ftp.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genomes/H_sapiens/
14:12 < ybit> i want a tshirt
14:12 < ybit> blinky lights included
14:12 < ybit> or not
14:12 < ybit> where's the h+ t-shirt? hrm?
14:13 < ybit> maybe it should say something like "been through the singularity, got the t-shirt to prove it"
14:16 < ybit> or a more personalized one for me: "heath! do something or get out of the way. kthx."
14:17 < mjr> "Went through the Singularity and all I got was this lousy T-shirt with a Basilisk on the back"
14:20 < kanzure> ybit: it's on cafe press if you care
14:20 < kanzure> but personally i wouldn't buy the shirt
14:20 < kanzure> http://www.cafepress.com/humanityplus
14:21 < ybit> eek
14:21 < ybit> take out the green crap and make the letters a dark grey... or make the shirt a dark gray with white lettering and a green plus sign
14:21 < ybit> ..just saying
14:22 < kanzure> nah this is what the "designers" on the board came up with
14:22 < kanzure> whatever. ignore it
14:22 < ybit> heh
14:23 < ybit> so i guess that these designers are just one person who was came up with an idea "oh! we need t-shirts" and was assigned the task of creating a shirt... and then they became busy or didn't know what they were doing
14:23 < ybit> -was
14:23 < kanzure> no
14:23 < kanzure> i wish it was like that but no
14:23 < ybit> wow
14:23 < kanzure> this was the result of their thoughtful consideration and time/effort
14:23 < kanzure> :(
14:23 < ybit> that's just silly
14:33 < jrayhawk> "Went through the singularity, and all I got was this lousy grey goo stain on my t-shirt"
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15:07 < jebba> http://www.1011ltd.com/web/blog/post/im_building_a_webgl_tool
15:11 < kanzure> jebba: thanks
15:11 < kanzure> i'm glad someone is getting around to this
15:11 < kanzure> i do find it odd though that he's transferring stl over the network via json
15:12 < kanzure> i mean, webgl can be used to do csg and boundary representation modelling iirc..
15:13 < jebba> let him know!
15:13 < kanzure> doesn't look open source (he seems to be anti-GPL)
15:14 < jebba> no, it's open source, explicitly
15:14 < jebba> in fact he mentions not using CGAL because it is *too* restrictive
15:14 < kanzure> no: "I would like to enable businesses to embed or integrate this tool, or parts of it, into their infrastructure. If they see QPL or GPL they will decline to do so..."
15:14 < kanzure> "If they see GPL they will decline to do so"
15:15 -!- thesnark|afk is now known as thesnark
15:16 < kanzure> on a related note, sencha really rocks on the phone http://dev.sencha.com/deploy/touch/examples/kitchensink/
15:18 < kanzure> jebba: he might be anti-GPL in the sense that he's into BSD or MIT licensing ;)
15:21 < jebba> ah ya, I just saw he was anti QPL, which is good, but it does sound more like he's going BSD, ya.
15:22 < jebba> kitchensink is nearly a blank page for me.
15:22 < kanzure> what phone do you have
15:22 < QuantumG> someone asked me about Qt the other day
15:23 < QuantumG> the acquisition of Trolltech by Nokia was the best thing that ever happened to them.. no more of this stupid Commercial license crap
15:23 < QuantumG> LGPL ftw
15:23 < kanzure> jebba: it's for webkit on a mobile platform, so if you have android 2.1+ it should be ok
15:23 < jebba> kanzure, i was looking with firefox on my desktop system, if you meant about the site.   If you didn't, I have a Nokia N900 for which I hate nokia  ;)    http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba
15:24 < kanzure> that link to sencha.com is a mobile demo
15:24 < jebba> QuantumG, you see Nokia is going Microsoft for their phones as of Friday?
15:24 < jebba> ah ok
15:24 < kanzure> jebba: see pm
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15:47 < Lukas___> Good evening gentlemen
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15:52 < kanzure> lame
15:52 < kanzure> s/lame/tease/
16:14 < kanzure> "You remind me of the seasteading enthusiast who thought we were idiots to form an organization, hire staff, and pay salaries with part of Peter's initial $500K grant,"
16:14 < kanzure> "saying that instead we should just put the whole sum up as a prize and define the terms of winning, then go back to our day jobs."
16:14 < kanzure> "Had we done that, I think the result would have been no progress (it's too small a sum for the goal).  Instead, I built an organization which has raised $1.25M more since that initial $500K,
16:14 < kanzure> while raising global awareness, producing key research, and inspiring crowdsourced research along the way.  A going concern which can keep generating progress indefinitely."
16:14 < kanzure> "Investing in staff for an organization is what gets you the funds to invest in technologies.  No salespeople, no sales (donations), no money, no technologies."
16:14 < kanzure> (patri's argument for "hire an executive director for humanity+")
16:15 < kanzure> all i can think of is a few research documents that patri has written
16:15 < kanzure> what else has seasteading institute actually done?
16:15 < kanzure> oh i guess they have a book coming up....
16:26 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i know, i know. don't say it.. just pretend i've already done it
16:40 < kanzure> anyone have the password? http://www.ustream.tv/channel/jeopardy-watson
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17:54 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
17:58 < kanzure> hi
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18:58 < kanzure> crud i should prepare a talk/presentation for BIL shouldn't i
18:58 < fenn> did anyone figure out how to watch jeopardy?
19:03 < JayDugger> kanzure, Only if you've already committed to giving a presentation. Will your reputation suffer if you flake?
19:03 < drazak> fenn: yeah you go to the website and get up to 8 free seats!
19:03 < JayDugger> fenn, I have no idea how to watch Jeopardy. I'll wait for the results. The show bored me.
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19:10 < kanzure> JayDugger: i haven't committed to it yet but it's still something i should do
19:10 < kanzure> what are you doing awake?
19:15 < fenn> it's pretty much guaranteed watson will win
19:15 < fenn> unless SIAI terrorist squad manages to plant their sabotage in time
19:16 < kanzure> SIAI's terrorism is much more subtle than that
19:17 < kanzure> fenn: do you know if patri has actually done anything other than write books/articles?
19:20 < fenn> a couple nice parties on the river
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19:22 < kanzure> "i've raised more money than you so my technology (which doesn't actually exist) is obviously better"
19:23 < kanzure> fsf and gnu have done more work on less money than *i've* been given
19:36 < JayDugger> Me? I'm awake this time of week because I work tonight.
19:36 < JayDugger> Also, today marks St. Valentine's day.
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20:22 < kanzure> http://humanityplus.org/2011/02/gada-prize-documents/
20:23 < kanzure> by "we" they mean "bryan"
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20:24 < kanzure> Tyrant: logs: http://gnusha.org/logs/2011-02-14.log
20:26 < Tyrant> kanzure, aha thanks but i wont be reading much
20:26 < Tyrant> too busy to go to even diybio now adays
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20:27 < kanzure> hi tav
20:27 < tav> hey kanzure — thx for the pointer
20:29 < tav> so i'm looking to get into the general diy manufacturing/bio/etc. scene — any pointers of where i should hang out and what i should be reading ?
20:30 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing
20:30 < kanzure> http://groups/google.com/group/diybio
20:30 < kanzure> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
20:31 < kanzure> http://reprap.org/mailman/listinfo/reprap-dev
20:32 < kanzure> if you're into forums and http interfaces, cnzone and reprap forums are ok
20:32 < tav> i'm looking for something more like hacker news ideally
20:32 < drazak> fenn: the whole motor driver thing for a reprap could be done cheaper discretely I think
20:32 < tav> thanks btw — joining the various lists
20:33 < kanzure> i have a hacker news knockoff for transhumanist/diy/biology videos.. http://diyhpl.us:9000/ :P
20:33 < drazak> fenn: I few lateral mosfets and a couple bjts
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20:34 < tav> kanzure: is there a non-transhumanist variant of that? ;p
20:35 < kanzure> no
20:35 < kanzure> this is sort of a transhumanist-diybio-manufacturing-asskicking channel
20:35 < kanzure> so you should go away if i offend you
20:35 < tav> heh
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20:35 < tav> well, i don't mind what beliefs others hold, so that's cool with me
20:36 < kanzure> beliefs? it's more of a practicality thing
20:36 < tav> how frequently is http://diyhpl.us:9000/ updated ?
20:36 < drazak> kanzure: one of my irl friends is a fan of ray kurzweil
20:36 < kanzure> tav: it's just an alpha
20:37 < kanzure> drazak: ray kurzweil can suck my dick
20:37 < kanzure> there, i said it
20:37 < drazak> kanzure: I thought you liked him
20:37 < kanzure> tav: so it's not really updated often
20:37 < kanzure> drazak: haha no
20:37 < kanzure> drazak: i'm the kid that emailed him when i was like 12 to insult him
20:37 < drazak> kanzure: oh right
20:37 < kanzure> (he offered a book to me in return, but i declined)
20:37 < drazak> kanzure: sorry I forgot
20:38 < kanzure> tav: part of the problem is that diyhpl.us:9000 isn't really useful right now.. comments on video isn't exactly a brilliant thing on the internet
20:39 < kanzure> oh you can also try http://diyhpl.us:9000/random
20:40 < Tyrant> kanzure, im signed up to diybio and openmanufacturing but i dont follow them. nothing of interest
20:40 < Tyrant> oh wait not talking to me
20:40 < tav> kanzure: is the frontpage in reverse chronological order?
20:40 < Tyrant> my bad
20:40 < drazak>  /win 128
20:40 < kanzure> tav: it's just whenever they were submitted. to be fair it's a bad frontpage
20:41 < tav> well, it's good enough for me — thanks for collating this
20:41 < kanzure> users can submit content somewhere on the top
20:41 < drazak> kanzure: why do you dislike kurzwell
20:41 < Tyrant> tav, get involved, make projects
20:42 < Tyrant> the mailing lists are rather useless if you dont have something you'd like to present for discussion
20:42 < Tyrant> a  tidbit of news here and there
20:42 < Tyrant> but like diybio theres just wide swaths of topics with little depth
20:42 < kanzure> drazak: because he's in the business of promotion.. not tech
20:42 < kanzure> self-promotion, even
20:43 < kanzure> it's like all of the futurists from the 90s were envisioning a singularity of feel-good-self-promotion
20:43 < QuantumG> heh
20:44 < drazak> I see
20:44 < tav> Tyrant: well, i'm a bit lost as to where to start tbh — i've joined the lists that kanzure has pointed to and bookmarked diyhpl.us and thingiverse
20:45 < kanzure> plus, his books were basically "i read all of the emails from these mailing lists and then wrote a book"
20:45 < kanzure> tav: what are you looking to do
20:45 < Tyrant> Well what are you interested in
20:45 < tav> and whilst i've been fantasising on this front since i was about a kid, i sadly ventured into hacking of the software kind and haven't gotten into this field
20:46 < kanzure> would you be interested in working on any of these? :p http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/diytranshuman_projects.v4.html
20:46 < kanzure> what sort of software hacking do you do
20:46 < Tyrant> Im actually working on #3
20:46 < Tyrant> and 4k is way over shooting it
20:46 < tav> kanzure: here's the thing that i've been working on over the last few days http://tav.espians.com/fabric-python-with-cleaner-api-and-parallel-deployment-support.html (draft article)
20:47 < kanzure> Tyrant: i agree $4k is overshooting it.
20:47 < kanzure> Tyrant: these are random numbers attached to each project, btw.
20:47 < kanzure> tav: one of the projects in here is skdb, or apt-get for hardware, written mostly in python http://gnusha.org/skdb
20:47 < kanzure> so you might be interested in poking around that..
20:48 < kanzure> oh wait.. you're tav-from-espians.. that's how i know you
20:48 < tav> here's an overview of the thing that i've been working on for the last decade or so:
20:48 < kanzure> suresh spams your crap all over the place
20:48 < tav> http://tav.espians.com/temp/ampify-overview.png (decentralised social platform)
20:48 < kanzure> right
20:48 < kanzure> yeah i'm familiar with your work
20:48 < tav> http://tav.espians.com/temp/espra-overview.png (socio-economic systems)
20:49 < Tyrant> What's your language of choice?
20:49 < tav> yes, i believe we briefly met on some channel before?
20:49 < kanzure> probably an espians channel
20:50 < drazak> kanzure: I'm looking to set up an electronics work bench, do you have any projects that need stuff?
20:50 < tav> Tyrant: go, python, javascript/coffeescript (preferred) — and i've hacked in most others
20:50 < kanzure> drazak: heh would you be interested in working on an open source AFM project
20:50 < drazak> kanzure: if someone can design something I'll solder it
20:50 < Tyrant> ah shame
20:51 < drazak> kanzure: you'd need to use HF to make the tips
20:51 < kanzure> drazak: it involves a little bit more than soldering, like some digital signal processing, plastic printing, stuff like that
20:51 < drazak> kanzure: which I am not willing to do
20:51 < kanzure> yes
20:51 < tav> damn, did i miss out your preferred language Tyrant ?
20:51 < kanzure> or you can buy the tips with some money i give you
20:51 < drazak> kanzure: I don't do DSP, either :S
20:51 < Tyrant> tav: my company's preferred language lol
20:51 < drazak> kanzure: I can't program! (shock and horror!)
20:51 < tav> Tyrant: lol
20:51 < tav> ;p
20:51 < Tyrant> been looking for coders lately
20:52 < kanzure> drazak: that's ok, there's this: http://gxsm.sf.net/
20:52 < kanzure> Tyrant: what are you looking for coders for?
20:52 < Tyrant> without a long winded explanation, the "imdb of politics"
20:52 < kanzure> meh
20:52 < tav> Tyrant: ah, sorry, thought you were referring to lolcode
20:52 < kanzure> some of that already exists
20:52 < Tyrant> kanzure, not on the scale we're doing it
20:52 < tav> think i might have misunderstood your lol there
20:53 < drazak> kanzure: I can put something together for you, that's not a huge problem
20:53 < kanzure> sudo skdb install lolnuke?
20:53 < Tyrant> and we're commercial, not non profit like most are
20:53 < drazak> kanzure: equipment is something I'd need though, let me know if an oscilloscope or benchtop DMM comes your way
20:53 < kanzure> drazak: what do you think about http://www.e-basteln.de/
20:53 < kanzure> drazak: well, i'd dump money on you for this
20:54 < kanzure> to pretty up the documentation and make this into an open source hardware project or kit
20:54 < kanzure> i.e. there's a last mile amount of work that has to happen here..
20:55 < Tyrant> for a scanning tunneling microscope?
20:55 < drazak> kanzure: I don't like that it uses an evaluation board
20:55 < drazak> kanzure: that means having to buy it outright instead of getting a free-sample of a chip and slapping it on a board
20:55 < kanzure> Tyrant: well, that's the first issue, it's an STM not an AFM, but they are very similar
20:56 < kanzure> yeah, replacing the chip with an arduino or atmel avr might be nice
20:56 < Tyrant> What kind of precision does it have
20:56 < drazak> kanzure: well that wouldn't be possible
20:56 < kanzure> the STM i linked to? uhh
20:56 < kanzure> drazak: huh? it's electronics, you get to make the circuit, pcb or breadboard
20:57 < drazak> kanzure: the dsp chip there has some features that an arguino doesn't
20:57 < drazak> kanzure: and can't reproduce
20:57 < kanzure> the dsp can be done on the computer instead
20:57 < Tyrant> i mean its great if it costs a couple grand but if its the equivalent of a really nice optical microscope... whats the point
20:57 < drazak> kanzure: not without an expensive dac
20:57 < drazak> kanzure: adc rather, sorry
20:57 < Tyrant> the dsp has to be really high throughtput
20:57 < kanzure> Tyrant: i think the cost can be sub $200
20:57 < kanzure> having an open platform for AFM or STM is important even if it sucks at first
20:57 < kanzure> but let's shoot for "not sucking" ;)
20:58 < Tyrant> eh i dont see much on that site in the way of actual precision statistics
20:59 < Tyrant> I can't imagine an stm without some really expensive high precision components
20:59 < kanzure> well, i was thinking afm, not stm
21:00 < Tyrant> Yeah thats even more precise
21:01 < kanzure> the amateur versions on the web have done pretty well for sub $1k
21:01 < kanzure> by "pretty well" i mean "an almost clean grid of atoms"
21:01 < Tyrant> how big are the probes
21:01 < kanzure> you mean the minimum diameter? i don't recall anything
21:01 < kanzure> but good lab grade probes are 10 to 100 nm iirc...
21:02 < Tyrant> radius of curvature i believe its called
21:03 < Tyrant> those instruments seem too precise for a diy setting
21:03 < Tyrant> ima stick to my mass spec
21:03 < kanzure> tav: this is probably not helpful except as a way to waste time http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/
21:03 < kanzure> Tyrant: if you decide to go open source, hit me up and i might be able to find some extra cash for parts..
21:03 < Tyrant> im already planning almost full open source
21:03 < kanzure> yeah "almost" :P
21:03 < tav> fuck me
21:03 < drazak> kanzure: got a smaller project you'd like electronics collaboration on?
21:03 < tav> you're one active dude!
21:04 < kanzure> drazak: low earth orbit superlaser?
21:04 < drazak> kanzure: I mean, you could do this STM for cheaper I guess, probably $500 or so
21:04 < Tyrant> the 'almost' part is only there until theres a viable alternative business model
21:04 < drazak> "superlaser"
21:04 < kanzure> drazak: yeah i agree.. but for testing and fucking up, a larger budget like $2500 is nice to have
21:05 < Tyrant> I'd imagine the samples for callibrating an stm would be more expensive than 2500
21:05 < kanzure> oh man it's been a while since i've thought about calibration
21:05 < drazak> kanzure: you can get the motorola chip for cheap, it's just the evaluation board part that's epensive
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21:05 < Tyrant> you can have all the stms you want but you'll never know whether its actually seeing what its supposed to be seing
21:05 < kanzure> drazak: and you think the dsp has to be on a chip?
21:06 < kanzure> Tyrant: nah.. it's pretty obvious when you have noise from your signal processing
21:06 < drazak> kanzure: well maybe
21:07 < drazak> kanzure: you need something to talk to a computer that can talk to 24bit ADC's and DAC's
21:07 < kanzure> someone did it with a soundcard once.. i think
21:07 < drazak> kanzure: sure you can do it with a soundcard if your feedback loop is analog
21:07 < kanzure> the piezos that diy afms use are from headphones
21:08 < kanzure> but you can't control those from a soundcard really..
21:08 < kanzure> i mean you could but it's easier not to
21:08 < Tyrant> kanzure, no its not. at those scales a small aberation on your detector and you have nothing
21:08 < Tyrant> and all detectors have some abberations
21:09 < drazak> kanzure: you could do it with an MSP430 maybe
21:09 < Tyrant> calibrating the noise floor is easy
21:09 < Tyrant> but calibrating for the actual imperfections in the real measurements is hard
21:09 < drazak> eh, no way
21:09 < drazak> those are 16 bit
21:09 < drazak> you need 24 bit or better
21:09 < Tyrant> just use an xmos and be done with it
21:09 < Tyrant> x)
21:09 < drazak> kanzure: the best way might be a cheap arm, really
21:10 < drazak> kanzure: you can get an arm that will do it for 5 bucks or something insane
21:10 < kanzure> can i use this as an excuse for an fpga
21:10 < Tyrant> yes
21:10 < drazak> no!
21:10 < kanzure> :(
21:11 < Tyrant> why n?
21:11 < Tyrant> no?
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21:11 < kanzure> Tyrant: irc banter.. ignore it
21:11 < drazak> because FPGA is not always the solution
21:11 < kanzure> oh you're serious
21:11 < Tyrant> it is in this case
21:11 < Tyrant> just get one more or less tailored to rf
21:12 < Tyrant> I know little about stms but an rf adc + fpga would win
21:12 < Tyrant> its on the much pricier side but more reliable
21:12 < Tyrant> and you want the idea to work before you get execution down to a minimum
21:13 < drazak> Tyrant: we want to do this low cost
21:13 < drazak> I guaruntee you it can be done cheaper and more reliably
21:13 < Tyrant> you're building a high precision instrument. forget low cost. think iterations
21:13 < kanzure> $200 or $300 is approaching the "hey son, let's do a weekend project to touch freakin' atoms"
21:13 < Tyrant> I guarantee you you're not a giant company specializing in them
21:13 < kanzure> zone.
21:13 < QuantumG> $1000 is that range
21:13 < drazak> no, but I know what parts we can do
21:13 < kanzure> Tyrant: large companies usually don't even believe that the costs could be that low
21:13 < Tyrant> then do those right before you try to burn down the cost
21:14 < kanzure> Tyrant: usually they have other costs like paying $150k/yr salaries..
21:14 < kanzure> QuantumG: $1k eh?
21:14 < Tyrant> kanzure, those companies need those salaries because they dont have the benefit of ripping off previous work
21:15 < kanzure> that's their fault for playing the IP game
21:15 < Tyrant> you mean it's their fault for surviving?
21:15 < kanzure> surviving? or failing to make an AFM for $200
21:15 < Tyrant> drazak: if you want to jsut do a project and make something working then chose a more proven project
21:15 < Tyrant> if you want to drive the cost of a scientific instrument down, then start iterating
21:16 < Tyrant> and you're not going to iterate with an arduino and a toothpick
21:16 < Tyrant> at least not until you know exactly how the instrument works and every pitfall along the way
21:16 < kanzure> haha next you're going to say reprap isn't iterating
21:17 < Tyrant> oh no it is
21:17 < Tyrant> its going at its own nice pace
21:17 < Tyrant> you can print shit with it
21:17 < Tyrant> they didnt try to make a $25,000 3d printer for 500$
21:17 < Tyrant> they tried to make a very very basic version
21:18 < Tyrant> and succeeded. and improved on it
21:18 < kanzure> actually they tried to make a "self-replicating machine" that prints out plastic parts :/
21:18 < kanzure> but yeah.. who cares
21:18 < kanzure> so anyway, drazak, you want to be involved or not?
21:18 < QuantumG> kanzure: so have you seen anything interesting done with an AFM/STM lately?
21:18 < kanzure> lately? no.. most of the diy work was 1995-2005
21:19 < Tyrant> work?
21:19 < Tyrant> what works?
21:19 < Tyrant> any working examples of an stm or afm?
21:19 < kanzure> yes
21:19 < QuantumG> yeah, I meant even with professional hardware
21:19 < kanzure> there's tons of interesting stuff being done in labs with AFMs
21:20 < Tyrant> no i mean a diy afm or stm
21:20 < Tyrant> even at a university level
21:20 < drazak> kanzure: I'm down
21:20 < QuantumG> define interesting
21:20 < drazak> kanzure: I've got a few ideas as it is
21:20 < QuantumG> I mean, obviously imaging is interesting but it's not what I was thinking about :)
21:20 < kanzure> QuantumG: check out the papers with 'AFM' in the name http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/
21:21 < Tyrant> if patents are up, lots of papers are published, and peopel are doing them "diy" at the university level then its a ripe target to burn down the cost
21:21 < drazak> kanzure: got a wiki somewhere I can edit or whatever
21:21 < kanzure> QuantumG: AFM/DNA sequencing, single-plasmid PCR, puncturing cells,
21:22 < kanzure> drazak: yeah.. http://diyhpl.us/wiki
21:22 < kanzure> drazak: git clone git://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki if you want to edit it
21:22 < drazak> kanzure: I don't git
21:22 < kanzure> then you can edit over the web
21:22 < drazak> fantastic
21:22 < kanzure> luser :p
21:23 < drazak> I gave up 6 revision control systems ago
21:23 < drazak> I'd learn one then the next one would change the rules on me
21:23 < kanzure> i'm a little worried that the papers in this directory vanished
21:23 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/AFM-DNA-sequencing/
21:23 < kanzure> a few minutes ago they were there..
21:24 < Tyrant> hmm i need to make an R interface for ipads
21:25 < kanzure> yeah because that's the first thing i reach for when i want to do stats, my ipad
21:25 < Tyrant> yep
21:25 < kanzure> ...
21:25 < Tyrant> what media contacts do you ahve btw
21:25 < kanzure> all sorts.. what do you need
21:25 < Tyrant> we've got a filming crew coming to socaldiybio soon and we're going to do our kickstarter
21:26 < Tyrant> need your forwading around + as many media contacts as possible
21:26 < Tyrant> we've got wired, boing boing, and hackaday already
21:26 < kanzure> sounds slutty
21:26 < kanzure> no thanks..
21:26 < Tyrant> lol dont want to help the diybio scene?: P
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21:27 < kanzure> who do you need me to introduce you to
21:27 < Tyrant> Not introduce, just send out some emails to media people you know about the socal kickstarter
21:28 < kanzure> Tyrant: here's everyone i know: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/plain/meetlog.txt
21:28 < kanzure> tav: you might get a kick out of that..
21:29 < Tyrant> ahaha i randomly scrolled down and saw kyle kovary
21:29 < Tyrant> I'm under knowledge, lasers and calibration? HAH
21:29 < kanzure> "knowledge" just means "i saw you talking about this"
21:29 < Tyrant> yeah i got that lol
21:30 < kanzure> it helps me compute tag clouds :)
21:30 < kanzure> or do crazy things like list out all biocurious people: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/biocurious-people.txt
21:30 < Tyrant> thats a really nice script you got running tagging all of thse
21:30 < kanzure> yeah i have trouble remembering everyone
21:30 < kanzure> are you my mom
21:30 < Tyrant> huh Todd Huffman has peter thiel on his friends list?
21:31 < kanzure> todd knows a lot of people
21:31 < Tyrant> I'm guessing you have him on your friends list as welL?
21:33 < kanzure> yeah of course
21:33 < Tyrant> hmm
21:33 < Tyrant> pain in the ass contacting him
21:33 < kanzure> nah just contact his assistants
21:34 < kanzure> megan for instance
21:34 < kanzure> or, call his afghani number
21:34 < Tyrant> nah i've got nothing to say yet. just waiting to hear about my fellowship application
21:34 < kanzure> it's.. somewhere in there
21:34 < kanzure> fellowship for what
21:34 < Tyrant> the 20 under 20 thing he did
21:34 < tav> kanzure: neat — though, not sure of what to make of the fact that you've got my gf's phone number in there ... ;p
21:34 < kanzure> no todd didn't put that on
21:34 < Tyrant> mind if I download that text file btw?
21:35 < kanzure> Tyrant: if you're reading it you've downloaded it.. go ahead
21:35 < kanzure> Tyrant: you can also clone it, it's a git repo
21:35 < kanzure> git clone git://diyhpl.us/meetlog
21:35 < kanzure> tav: I KNOW EVERYTHING
21:35 < kanzure> tav: having said that, who is your girlfriend
21:35 < Tyrant> todd didnt put what on?
21:35 < tav> kanzure: sofia
21:36 < kanzure> Tyrant: todd isn't the organizer behind 20under20
21:36 < kanzure> that's thiel foundation..
21:36 < Tyrant> i know
21:36 < kanzure> are you under 20
21:36 < Tyrant> That's why i want to contact peter thiel not todd
21:36 < Tyrant> I can contact todd no problem
21:36 < kanzure> oh, peter is basically impossible to contact
21:36 < Tyrant> its peter that i have a rpoblem with
21:36 < Tyrant> yeah
21:36 < kanzure> i go through patri friedman
21:36 < Tyrant> and yes im under 20
21:37 < Tyrant> nils hitze is also applying?
21:37 < kanzure> no
21:37 < kanzure> just talking about it
21:38 < Tyrant> matvey ezhov haha
21:38 < Tyrant> this is one hell of a tag cloud
21:38 < tav> kanzure: so, *how* do you have her details? ;p
21:38 < Tyrant> What did you use to build it?
21:38 < kanzure> tav: via suresh fernando
21:38 < kanzure> Tyrant: i have some scripts in the git repo..
21:38 < kanzure> Tyrant: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/plain/tag_extractor.py
21:38 < tav> kanzure: ah
21:39 < Tyrant> ahah under joseph jackson you have the whole thing about 20under20 and mass spectroscopy which is im guessing him talking about my ms
21:39 < kanzure> no that was me talking to him
21:39 < Tyrant> ah. excuse my narcissism :p
21:39 < kanzure> i'm glad you enjoy my social life so much
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21:40 < Tyrant> heh
21:40 < Tyrant> just interesting to sift through the tags
21:40 < kanzure> i agree
21:40 < kanzure> it's why i do it
21:40 < kanzure> also because i'd otherwise completely forget
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21:40 < kanzure> "bryan do you remember that thing we talked about last year" "what the fuck?"
21:41 < kanzure> if you want i'll re-upload the html tag clouds
21:41 < Tyrant> hmm now that im finally using a bnc maybe i should set up that script
21:41 < kanzure> i have things like per-person stat views with graphs
21:41 < Tyrant> That'd be cool to see
21:41 < kanzure> and tag clouds and other random crap
21:41 < kanzure> ok
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21:43 < kanzure> Tyrant: here's an old overall tag cloud http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/tags.2010-08-09-1150.html
21:43 < kanzure> oh crud it's one of the bad ones
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21:45 < kanzure> hi g4k
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21:53 < Tyrant> btw kanzure, i dont like that #13 under projects :P
21:54 < kanzure> me either- too much social bullshit going on its board
21:55 < kanzure> i mean, board of directors
21:55 < Tyrant> yep
21:55 < Tyrant> replace them with SoCal
21:55 < kanzure> i told joe that his team sucks
21:55 < kanzure> but he doesn't listen
21:55 < Tyrant> We're making our own gel boxes
21:55 < kanzure> gel boxes don't interest the empire
21:55 < Tyrant> I know
21:55 < Tyrant> but its the best i can do
21:55 < Tyrant> otehr than that laser callibration nonsense
21:55 < kanzure> "Asteroids do not concern the empire, Admiral."
21:55 < kanzure> ok so i got the quote slightly wrong
21:57 < kanzure> so you know matvey?
21:57 < Tyrant> who?
21:57 < kanzure> you brought him up earlier
21:57 < Tyrant> just messing with your tag cloud
21:57 < kanzure> from looking at meetlog.txt
21:57 < kanzure> ok
21:57 < Tyrant> he is also tagged 20under20
21:57 < kanzure> yeah he's part of Российское Трансгуманистическое Движение
21:58 < kanzure> russian transhumanism branch
21:58 < Tyrant> ehh technically movement
21:58 < Tyrant> not branch
21:58 < kanzure> yeah RTM
21:58 < kanzure> "branch" as in "chapter of world transhumanist association" but it doesn't matter..
21:59 < Tyrant> im a stickler for my native language ;)
21:59 < kanzure> he keeps telling me to use google translate
21:59 < kanzure> but there's no way i will ever learn
21:59 < kanzure> if i just translate everything all the time
21:59 < Tyrant> no i wouldn't recommend it
21:59 < Tyrant> i dont think it'd properly get transhumanism
22:00 < kanzure> "super gorilla monkey men"
22:00 < Tyrant> also its russian transhumanist movement
22:00 < Tyrant> Xp
22:00 < kanzure> there was apparently a russian project to make super monkey soliders
22:00 < kanzure> *soldiers
22:00 < Tyrant> i bet
22:00 < Tyrant> i'll ask my mom if she worked on soemthing like that
22:00 < kanzure> http://www.ufodigest.com/supersoldier.html
22:00 < kanzure> "According to Russian newspapers Stalin' stated, "I want a new invincible human being, insensitive to pain, resistant and indifferent about the quality of food they eat.""
22:01 < kanzure> "It alleges that Soviet dictator Josef Stalin ordered a scientist to create a Super-soldier by crossbreeding humans with apes."
22:01 < kanzure> "The initial budget for the new super-soldier was $200,000, a vast sum in the 1920s."
22:01 < kanzure> "1926 Ivanov went to West Africa in 1926 to perform experiments by impregnating chimpanzees. A centre for the experiments was also established in Georgia for raise the apes."
22:01 < Tyrant> such trustworthy data
22:02 < kanzure> yeah ufodigest is totally my source of news!~
22:03 < Tyrant> if you werent being sarcastic i'd suggest you use a hammer for your afm and pass it through a 400 mips rf dac
22:04 < kanzure> yeah i'm kind of regretting dropping a link to that
22:04 < kanzure> maybe there's something on wikipedia
22:05 < Tyrant> i wonder what your cloud will do to that link
22:05 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov_%28biologist%29
22:05 < kanzure> which link?
22:05 < Tyrant> the super soldiers
22:05 < kanzure> tag you about it :P
22:05 < Tyrant> oh boy
22:06 < kanzure> quick! talk about things you'd rather be tagged about
22:06 < Tyrant> bacon
22:06 < Tyrant> diy electron transmission microscope
22:06 < kanzure> but it might discount it for being close to anything talking about tags (to avoid meta-meta-meta tag injection about tagging)
22:06 < Tyrant> diy MRI
22:06 < Tyrant> damn
22:07 < Tyrant> diy mri anyway
22:08 < Tyrant> going to replace all their superconducting magnets with arduinos
22:08 < kanzure> what
22:09 < Tyrant> itll work i tell you
22:09 < Tyrant> im going to cut their cost
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22:14 < delinquentme> kanzure, you around?
22:14 < delinquentme> im trying to figure out some stuff about minipreps and PCR
22:14 < Tyrant> use ice and hot water baths. its hte only way to do it correctly :)
22:14 < delinquentme> for ex: why if we're amplifying the source dna in a miniprep .. do we do it again in PCR
22:14 < delinquentme> Tyrant, you've done PCRs :D
22:15 < delinquentme> and i think a thermocycler is better :D
22:15 < Tyrant> i like thermocyclers but only as decorations
22:15 < Tyrant> i have one sitting right behind my laptop
22:15 < Tyrant> stupid peltier chip burned
22:16 < delinquentme> awesome!!
22:16 < delinquentme> so do you have any idea bout the miniprep and the pcr?
22:16 < delinquentme> like im 90% certain the PCR amplifies it WAAAAYYYYY more efficiently
22:17 < delinquentme> and "dna construct assembly"
22:17 < Tyrant> i think the miniprep isolates the plasmids and PCR amplifies it
22:17 < delinquentme> annd thsi crazy "agarose size filtering"
22:17 < delinquentme> i THINK thats a crazy term for gel electrophoresis
22:18 < delinquentme> bc its using agarose .. they're split up by SIZES of the dna snippets
22:18 < Tyrant> yeah i think the terms are interchangeable
22:21 < delinquentme> and then you're doing gel electro to ensure that you've isolated the proper pieces of DNA
22:21 < delinquentme> and then you do STUFF
22:21 < delinquentme> right?
22:21 < Tyrant> that depends on what you're doing it for. our initial PCRs were taking very small amounts of dna and replicating them
22:22 < Tyrant> but that was just to test whether the pcr worked correctly
22:22 < Tyrant> as well as our imaging equipment, gel setup, etc.
22:29 < ybit> 18:24 < jebba> QuantumG, you see Nokia is going Microsoft for their phones as of Friday?
22:29 < ybit> 18:24 < kanzure> jebba: see pm
22:29 < delinquentme> ybit, did you see that theres an uprising within?
22:29 < ybit> may i ask if the PM is about nokia and microsoft, what the general talk was about?
22:29 < delinquentme> 10 of their employees w significant stock are planning on pulling stunts at the next investor meeting
22:29 < ybit> this is a particular interest of mine
22:30 < delinquentme> ybit, http://nokiaplanb.com/
22:30 < kanzure> ybit: i have a 'sekr1t' project that i'm not prepared to announce publicly
22:30 < kanzure> so that's what the pm was about
22:32 < ybit> thanks for the link delinquentme
22:32 < delinquentme> ybit, np
22:33 < ybit> gl with your secret project kanzure :)
22:34 < Tyrant> dont forget the tags and arduinos
22:34 < Tyrant> good night everyone im out
22:34 < ybit> gn
22:34 < delinquentme> spectroscopic conc. normalization ?
22:34 < kanzure> Tyrant: yeah it's already in there http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/plain/meetlog.txt
22:35 < kanzure> (refresh)
22:35  * kanzure goes back to sleep
22:35 < delinquentme> byes!
22:36 < delinquentme> Tyrant, any idea what the above abreeeeved term is
22:36 < Tyrant> Bacon got in!
22:36 < Tyrant> No sorry.
22:36 < Tyrant> I don't know how chimpanzees or humanzees got in either
22:40 < Tyrant> btw delinquentme, conc might be concentratin
22:40 < Tyrant> concentration
22:42 < delinquentme> polemyerase bacon reaction?
22:42 < delinquentme> amplify bacon billions of times
22:42 < delinquentme> yum.
22:42 < delinquentme> vat meat.
22:42 < delinquentme> NOM
22:46 < Technicus> Daeken: I am having significan challanges attempting to implement the Emokit hack.  Do you have a how to for Linux usage?
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--- Log closed Tue Feb 15 00:00:10 2011