--- Log opened Sun Apr 24 00:00:10 2011
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02:26 < QuantumG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8PlzDgFQMM
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04:36 < JayDugger> TEDxSanJoseCA - Jeff Greason - Rocket Scientist:  Making Space Pay and Having Fun Doing It
05:27 < LukasDimoveo> linky?
05:55 < LukasDimoveo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8PlzDgFQMM
06:00 < JayDugger> Sorry, Lukas. QuantumG dropped the link a few hours before sans title.
06:00 < JayDugger> You found it quickly enough.
06:00 < QuantumG> he was here when I dropped it
06:00 < JayDugger> Oh?
06:01 < JayDugger> That doesn't imply his attention. :)
06:06 < LukasDimoveo> Hello there
06:16 < LukasDimoveo> wow
06:16 < LukasDimoveo> excellent video
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18:32 < AlonzoTG> http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2011/04/elon-musk-ill-put-a-man-on-mars-in-10-years/
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18:37 < kanzure> beep
18:37 < kanzure> beep
18:37  * kanzure thinks someone forgot to turn off the timer
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18:52 < AlonzoTG> ...
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18:52 < AlonzoTG> So what do you think of that croaking noise Anissimov made?
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19:45 < JayDugger> Good night, everyone.
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20:05 < kanzure> "For same_side overlap, I revert all the intersection curves of the second patch which overlaps to the number before projection" what?
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20:15 < delinquentme> typically whats the smallest volume of liquid being dispensed into a microtiter plate ( 96 well )
20:15 < kanzure> microliters are pretty common
20:20 < delinquentme> yeah the 96 wells max out at 400 ml .. with samples typically  being between 100 and 200 ml
20:20 < delinquentme> so im wondering do the measurements get as small as 10 ml?
20:20 < delinquentme> 1 ml? .. or are we talking sub- ml
20:27 < kanzure> i've never done a plate with sub-ml measurements involved
20:28 < kanzure> but there are probably lots of different well plate standards that have smaller wells for smaller volumes
20:29 < delinquentme> oh absolutely
20:29 < delinquentme> ok so 1 ml should be safe.
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20:59 < kanzure> why would you set hard limits like that?
20:59 < kanzure> just implement units in your code
21:00 < kanzure> especially for the abstract "plate standard" class, etc.
21:04 < delinquentme_> nah its more like
21:05 < delinquentme_> well... tis a hardware issue
21:05 < delinquentme_> assuming that the motors driving the system have physical limitations
21:06 < delinquentme_> i need to spec out the torque and step rotation of this motor around the smallest unit i need it to handle
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21:35 < delinquentme_> *coughs*
21:35 < delinquentme_> ahem. so lol
21:35 < delinquentme_> 1. wolfram alpha rocks
21:35 < delinquentme_> 2.
21:35 < delinquentme_> its a hella small number
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22:01 < fenn> delinquentme_: for future reference, "ml" is milli liter, aka 1/1000 liter, "ul" is micro liter, 1/1000000 liter
22:01 < fenn> it's hard to dispense less than 2ul repeatably with a standard pipettor
22:02 < delinquentme_> fenn, yeah i got my units crossed :D
22:02 < delinquentme_> oh
22:02 < delinquentme_> really!
22:02 < delinquentme_> thats good to know.
22:02 < delinquentme_> i just ran the math through wolfram .. and well haha .. the linear distance to move this spindle for 1ml is ... hella small
22:03 < fenn> you did it again
22:03 < kanzure> fenn makes a good point though, most pipettes in molecular biology are giong to be microliter-range
22:04 < kanzure> but you should look up the volumes of the wells in your plates.. if it's anything near ml then microliter range probably won't matter
22:04 < fenn> yeah typical hand pipettors are 2-20ul, 20-200ul, 100ul-1ml
22:05 < kanzure> fenn: what strategy would you pick if you were implementing "boole"? de-novo implementation, or rewrite their c code?
22:05 < fenn> what's wrong with the existing code?
22:05 < kanzure> i've been able to run their code and i have it mostly outlined/understood.. sort of. there's a few fuzzy parts
22:05 < kanzure> the licensing
22:06 < fenn> isn't it bsd-ish?
22:06 < kanzure> the lack of comments
22:06 < kanzure> lack of unit tests
22:06 < fenn> so add comments and unit tests
22:06 < kanzure> it's "do whatever you want, except commercial"
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22:06 < fenn> oh, well that's stupid
22:06 < kanzure> well there's your answer
22:06 < fenn> rewrite it in cython :P
22:07 < kanzure> i also get the feeling that a lot of this is redundant
22:07 < delinquentme_> agh.
22:07 < fenn> redundant?
22:07 < kanzure> there's these huge chunks where they "do something for first_solid" and then they copy/pasted and "did it for second_solid"
22:07 < fenn> because there's no inheritance in C?
22:07 < kanzure> but some parts are put into functions
22:07 < kanzure> well, that's another issue, but specifically just because nobody bothered to simplify this
22:08 < kanzure> imho the main function should just be a list of function calls that do the real heavy work
22:08 < kanzure> not a mix of hundreds of embedded for loops and while loops, calling different functions once in a blue moon
22:08 < fenn> agreed
22:08 < fenn> (i havent looked at the code)
22:08 < kanzure> in particular i'm talking about boole-1.1/surface/perf_csg.c
22:09 < kanzure> ftp://ftp.cs.unc.edu/pub/projects/boole/boole-1.1.tar.gz
22:09 < kanzure> at line 1380
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22:10 < fenn> yeah, well, enjoy :P
22:10 < kanzure> to be fair, their CalculateImplicit is not awful
22:10 < kanzure> it computes an array that represents a matrix where the determinant is the implicit form of what was once a parameterized bezier surface
22:12 < kanzure> i'm a little worried about how in the papers they are super excited about computing a union between two solids IN EIGHT SECONDS!!
22:12 < kanzure> from 1994ish.. on sgi onyx machines (pokeball go!)
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22:12 < fenn> i think brep csg is probably just going to be slow
22:12 < fenn> unless you parallelize it
22:12 < kanzure> it turns out they were making a model of a submarine...
22:13 < kanzure> they thought it would be a good idea to make the entire submarine model one giant brep
22:13 < kanzure> including all of the inner mechanisms, manifolds, gauges, piping, etc.
22:13 < kanzure> i don't understand the utility of that :(
22:15 < kanzure> so here's what i have:
22:15 < kanzure> (1) a map of the source code with some extra stuff documented (on paper)
22:16 < kanzure> (2) a fairly accurate outline of the algorithm presented in their papers (on paper)
22:17 < kanzure> so i'm trying to guess if decyphering the code will be more of a pain in the ass than just writing everything on my own
22:21 < fenn> what good does deciphering their code do if you're not going to make a copy?
22:21 < kanzure> well i consider code to be somewhat more legible than a paper =p
22:27 < kanzure> oh, rewriting the code could mean i get to check if my implementation is exact (otherwise i'll have to come up with some way to check my work incrementally)
22:28 < fenn> you mean use the existing implementation's output as a "known good" example
22:28 < kanzure> yep.. and it compiles (amazing)
22:30 < kanzure> i really don't like these coding projects where i can't quickly check my work..
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22:46 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/boole_notes.txt
22:56 < CryptoQuick> "would you miss it? would you miss it?"
22:56 < kanzure> dunno what PartitionSplinegon does.. or why they called SubdivideTrimCurve
22:56 < kanzure> presumably all of these edge cases are important but if they are why is it so undocumented
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23:14 < sbailard_> Hi all!
23:15 < CryptoQuick> o/
23:16 < sbailard_> All is well?  I've been a bit quiet on irc, wrists were bothering me but seem to be better.
23:17 < CryptoQuick> I wouldn't know, I lurk the hell outta this place :P
23:18 < sbailard_> hi kanzure! Busy?
23:18 < sbailard_> Well, I'm crawling towards being a grown up, just installed virtualbox to get started on learning django.
23:18 < CryptoQuick> oh sweet
23:18 < CryptoQuick> python <3
23:19 < CryptoQuick> you know, a great platform for web apps that are purely web apps would be App Engine
23:22 < sbailard_> hmm.
23:22 < sbailard_> Interesting.  Are you part of the gitduino crew?
23:23 < CryptoQuick> nah, I'm just a space & code fanatic
23:23 < CryptoQuick> also, interested in improving how we manufacture things and do stuff and all that, you know, solving the world's problems in an IRC chat room
23:23 < sbailard_> :D
23:24 < CryptoQuick> :)
23:24 < sbailard_> Ah.  I'm just focused on solving reprap's documentation problems. Which is fun.
23:25 < CryptoQuick> I've always been intrigued by RepRap, but now I've become more entrenched in auxon systems, stuff that performs ISRU, then whittles down the results into more machines, in addition to useful things
23:25  * sbailard_ googles.
23:26 < CryptoQuick> I like this article:
23:26 < CryptoQuick> http://discovermagazine.com/1995/oct/robotbuildthysel569
23:28 < sbailard_> Ah.  You should built a reprap and work on printing them.
23:30 < CryptoQuick> well, sorta... this doesn't really deal with additive systems; check this out:
23:30 < CryptoQuick> http://i.imgur.com/tUZar.png
23:30 < CryptoQuick> ain't that sweet!? :D
23:31 < CryptoQuick> just throw a bunch of dirt into a fancy furnace, perhaps a solar furnace, and have it come out into its constituent metals
23:31 < sbailard_> That is interesting.
23:32 < sbailard_> Hey, do you know about metallicarap?
23:32 < CryptoQuick> no, what's that?
23:32 < sbailard_> ebeam powder printer
23:32 < sbailard_> http://reprap.org/wiki/MetalicaRap
23:33 < CryptoQuick> whoa...
23:36 < CryptoQuick> one goal I had for designing a self-replicating systems was, I wanted to keep the number of parts using copper and rare metals down; I didn't want to hamper the system's self-replication beyond its ISRU capabilities. I was thinking of using hydraulic or pneumatic parts. I've seen some RepRap designs use this sort of thing...
23:37 < sbailard_> You've still got *something* driving that hydrau/pressure line.
23:37 < sbailard_> I'd suggest bodging together a t-slot bot or wooden repstrap and get to hello world ...
23:37 < CryptoQuick> I'm not as concerned about that as I am about the interface between the controller and the fluid
23:37 < CryptoQuick> :)
23:40 < sbailard_> What kind of tooling do you have right now?
23:40 < CryptoQuick> SolidWorks ;D
23:40 < sbailard_> Ah.  It will be difficult to bootstrap that into a fabricator.
23:41 < CryptoQuick> well, I have access to a bunch of tooling and resources and people who know how to make things at school; we have a strong industrial design workshop
23:41 < CryptoQuick> they have an FDM machine also
23:41 < sbailard_> According to some folk Solidworks, and all non-floss cad may be ideologically impure.
23:42 < CryptoQuick> true, quite true
23:42 < sbailard_> that's when I yell at said folks: "Then don't use it. But trying to get people to swap tools is nuts."
23:42 < sbailard_> where are ya?
23:42 < CryptoQuick> it's fun to use, but do you prefer any other good CAD or CAD-like programs?
23:42 < CryptoQuick> I'm in Denver, CO
23:43 < sbailard_> I'm sniffing at free-cad.
23:43 < sbailard_> A substantial fraction (40-60%) of reprap is using openSCAD,  but everyone may be using a different toolset tomorrow.
23:44 < CryptoQuick> openscad looks like it's good once you have the idea set out
23:45 < CryptoQuick> I'mma check out FreeCAD, it looks promising :D
23:45 < sbailard_> Heekscad had some fans as well.
23:50 < kanzure> O_o you guys decide tools based on popularity?
23:50 < kanzure> god this world sucks
23:50 < sbailard_> bwahahah!
23:50 < sbailard_> no.
23:51 < CryptoQuick> :D
23:51 < sbailard_> More: I used this tool for my stuff.  Try it.
23:51 < kanzure> i don't see why you would use freecad over heekscad
23:52 < sbailard_> I still need to get deep with one or the other.
23:52 < kanzure> freecad and heekscad both use opencascade so essentially they are just different UIs, but last i looked heekscad was more complete
23:52 < sbailard_> That's the consensus I've seeen.
23:52 < kanzure> your opinion doesn't count because it's decided by popularity
23:52 < CryptoQuick> heekscad, why u no maek mac binary???
23:53 < kanzure> CryptoQuick: http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/wiki/CompilingForMacOSX
23:53 < CryptoQuick> ~binary~
23:53 < sbailard_> I agree with you that my opinion doesn't really count when some mech-eng student parachutes into the reprap project.
23:54 < sbailard_> You get a tiny chunk of the hivemind waving openscad at them, and then they rabbit off and go do stuff in solidworks or similar.
23:55 < sbailard_> How goes gitduino-development, btw? I just installed virtualbox on my new laptop and will be having a go at django.
23:55 < kanzure> why are you installing django?
23:55 < kanzure> realistically i should just refer to our last chat log since i'm not sure you understood what was going on
23:56 < kanzure> and that's basically the latest.
23:56 < sbailard_> I thought that was the webframeworks that would be wrapping around gitduino.
23:56 < kanzure> yeah i'm pretty sure that's not the conversation we last had.
23:56 < sbailard_> wrapping around ikiwiki, I meant.
23:56 < sbailard_> ah. I am embarrassed.
23:56 < sbailard_> And I'm glad I'm checking in.
23:56 < kanzure> piny? that's perl
23:56 < sbailard_> yes.
23:56 < kanzure> not django
23:57 < sbailard_> and piny is not a webframeworks?
23:57 < kanzure> it's best described as git hosting
23:58 < sbailard_> and .... do we have a web frameworks we'll be using along with piny? To do things like integrate the forum and piny into a general website?
23:59 < kanzure> sigh
23:59 < sbailard_> sorry.
23:59 < kanzure> do whatever you want.
23:59 < kanzure> can you just read our last conversation instead?
23:59 < sbailard_> Yeah, I'll do that.
--- Log closed Mon Apr 25 00:00:10 2011