--- Log opened Sun Sep 04 00:00:54 2011
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04:34 < kanzure> i demand.. entertainment
05:38 < JayDugger> What? Did you wake with a hankering for cheap thrills?
05:57 < JayDugger> http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/GVCS_Rollout_Planhttp://opensourceecology.org/wiki/GVCS_Rollout_Plan
05:58 < JayDugger> Go beat on Jakubowski until he admits skdb matches exactly what he needs.
05:58 < JayDugger> Then get hot on my atomic rocket packages.
05:59 < JayDugger> Failing that, watch Jonny Quest.
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12:02  * AlonzoTG takes a MUCH closer look at carboncopies.org
12:58 < kanzure> JayDugger: i'm at the point of giving up re: marcin
13:34 < kanzure> ack they are trying to compile opencascade for ipad
13:38 < skorket> Does anyone have any ideas on how to purify agarose from agar-agar?  I was thinking about boiling some agar-agar then putting 50V across it to see if the agaropectin would go to one side.  Alternatively running an electrohporesis experiment for 1/2 hour with nothing in it to try and get the agaropectin out.  Do you think this would work?  Does anyone have any other suggestions?
13:39 < kanzure> how about acetone?
13:39 < kanzure> http://www.fgsc.net/neurosporaprotocols/How%20to%20wash%20agar.pdf
13:39 < kanzure> also here's more suggestions: http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/3d7e7d6424e0d2a6/bbab3ffcb5b7913e
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13:46 < skorket> kanzure, is the first link for agarose or just agar
13:46 < skorket> ?
13:47 < kanzure> just agar, sorry
13:49 < skorket> I'm looking to do electrophoresis experiments.  Agarose runs at best 50c per gram but more often $1-2.  Even buying agar-agar from my local grocery store is substantially cheaper
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17:16 < eudoxia> Is zyvex the only company doing molecular nanotechnology/mechanosynthesis research?
17:19 < QuantumG> I'm not aware of any.. maybe kanzure knows
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17:37 < eudoxia_> Jim Von Ehr says we'll have rudimentary molecular manufacturing by 2020. So, has there been a breakthrough I'm not aware of, or has he been out of the lab for too long? because it seems far, far too early
17:39 < QuantumG> maybe if I knew who that was..
17:39 < eudoxia_> Zyvex's founder
17:40 < eudoxia_> http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/05/jim-von-ehr-founder-and-owner-of-zyvex.html
17:40 < QuantumG> no, there hasn't been a breakthrough.. and as far as I know, Zyvex hasn't even gotten to doing any molecular manufacturing research.. they're (just) selling better nanomanipulators
17:42 < eudoxia_> aww dammit
17:43 < eudoxia_> oh well it's not like i wanted to be optimistic today or anything :)
17:43 < QuantumG> oh sorry, talking to me isn't good for that
17:44 < eudoxia_> haha
17:45 < QuantumG> I honestly do hope that one day Merkle and Freitas will move beyond computer simulations
17:45 < eudoxia_> they have this thing going with Philip Moriarty, but it's technically on silicon not diamond
17:45 < eudoxia_> the grant ends in 2013 I think
17:59 -!- Stieru_Ridir is now known as Steel_
18:00 < Steel_> eh
18:00 < Steel_> We'll have good nanoscale (10nm+) manufacturing by 2020
18:00 < Steel_> I can state that as a fact
18:01 < QuantumG> that's not what molecular manufacturing is.
18:01 < Steel_> I know
18:01 < QuantumG> k
18:01 < Steel_> I mean coming from the other side
18:01 < Steel_> ie shrinking current manufacturing techniques
18:02 < Steel_> (because I'm working on it, hence my certainty)
18:02 < QuantumG> yeah, and maybe that'll help to take molecular manufacturing out of simulation
18:02 < Steel_> more likely it'll allow us to build the tools needed to do molecular manufacturing more easily
18:03 < eudoxia_> any idea how it's going to be done? photolithography on steroids? AFM?
18:04 < Steel_> what, molecular manufacturing or building the tools?
18:04 < eudoxia_> both i guess
18:04 < Steel_> I know what I'm doing is ultra precise inkjet printing--theoretically (not what we're doing now) you could go down to like 10nm printing lines
18:04 < Steel_> we're working with 500nm-2 micron printing atm, but that's because our rig is only a $70,000 one
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18:21 < kanzure> i'm afraid i just don't understand this sleep thing any more
18:23 < kanzure> i went to sleep at midnight and seemingly have now traveled backwards in time
18:54  * AlonzoTG sent a message to Randal Koene offering support for CarbonCopies.org because BCI/neural interfacing was on the table over there.
18:54 < AlonzoTG> =)
18:55 < kanzure> randal is friendly in general
18:55 < kanzure> met him once..
18:55 < kanzure> lost a match of dodgeball to him
18:56 < AlonzoTG> He seems to be quite rational, for an uploader, and therefore it is possible to actually collaborate with him rather than just have futile arguments.
18:56 < Steel_> I dislike uploading philosophically
18:57 < AlonzoTG> Indeed.
18:58 < klafka> why?
18:59 < Steel_> Because I define selfhood as continuity of consciousness
19:00 < kanzure> consciousness is a scam kthxbai
19:00 < klafka> so how does that interfere with the idea of uploading ?
19:00 < klafka> because consciousness can be turned off?
19:00 < klafka> do you lose self when you sleep?
19:01 < kanzure> what is self exactly?
19:01 < kanzure> what?
19:01 < kanzure> you guys are making shit up haha
19:01 < Steel_> you don't actually lose 'unconscious' awareness when you sleep
19:01 < Steel_> sorry
19:01 < Steel_> I'm okay with uploading, just not destructive uploading
19:01 < Steel_> @kanzure: I'm okay with calling it the illusion of self
19:02 < Steel_> and I wouldn't consider the uploaded me to actually be me
19:02 < kanzure> how do you define self/non-self?
19:02 < QuantumG> 1. you can't upload shit  2. if you could, I'd be using it to make digital copies of myself and having them work on my projects.  Someone wouldn't like that, but how are they gunna stop me?
19:03 < Steel_> I define self as an acting agent as far as it can determine itself :D
19:03 < Steel_> rather
19:03 < Steel_> as far as it can determine its limits
19:03 < QuantumG> of course, that depends on how costly a simulation is..
19:03 < kanzure> are you concerned that an emulation or other program wouldn't be able to do that?
19:04 < QuantumG> if it's actually quite expensive, then I'd have to get economic value out of it
19:04 < Steel_> no, but destructive uploading means that the original me dies
19:04 < Steel_> non-destructive uploading is cool
19:04 < Steel_> I'd copy myself a fuckton
19:04 < Steel_> way easier than cloning
19:04 < kanzure> maybe your biology is already dead
19:04 < QuantumG> yeah, destructive uploading is just a death cult
19:04 < AlonzoTG> The idea of making copies of yourself is, conceptually, extremely primitive.
19:05 < AlonzoTG> QUantum: +1
19:05 < eudoxia_> I never thought of it that way
19:05 < eudoxia_> the death cult thing
19:05 < klafka> what is destructive uploading?
19:05 < QuantumG> I look forward to government consciousness inspectors telling me what I can and can't run on my server cluster.
19:05 < Steel_> unfortunately, most people are in a death cult
19:06 < kanzure> klafka: slice a brain up and scan it in
19:06 < Steel_> :-/
19:06 < kanzure> klafka: then simulate/emulate it
19:06 < klafka> ah
19:06 < Steel_> anyone who desires death for a reason such as 'it's natural' is part of the death cult of normal society
19:06 < klafka> that's a serious science fiction trope currently
19:06 < eudoxia_> "You freeze the brain, you slice it very thinly, these very thin slices you scan using an electron microscope or some other form of microscope, at the nanometer precision. You get these images, you process them in a computer three-dimensional model -- Where are the different synapses and neurons, what are the strengths, what are the connections? You use that to create a computer simulation of the brain, and then you s
19:06 < eudoxia_> tart the simulation."
19:06 < kanzure> klafka: it has been for a while..
19:06 < QuantumG> "it's not death I want to avoid, it's life I want to live"
19:06 < klafka> kanzure well if it is now it always was before
19:07 < klafka> i mean more like that's a hugely long way away scientifically
19:07 < Steel_> any of y'all played/seen the RPG Sufficiently Advanced?
19:07 < kanzure> klafka: actually.. nematode simulations work pretty well
19:07 < klafka> kanzure nematodes have what? 178 neurons?
19:07 < eudoxia_> we have uploaded a nematode?
19:07 < klafka> 302 neurons
19:07 < QuantumG> how big are nematode neurons?
19:07 < kanzure> klafka: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf
19:08 < kanzure> klafka: yes, but there's also been progress on the scale of millions of neurons
19:08 < klafka> is it all with neuromorphic stuff?
19:08 < klafka> like analog vlsi
19:08 < kanzure> unfortunately no
19:08 < kanzure> i wish :)
19:09 < eudoxia_> @kanzure: you mean the blue brain project?
19:09 < klafka> i mean i know neuromorphic engineers are trying to do that stuff
19:09 < kanzure> eudoxia_: that's one example.. but not only that
19:09 < klafka> but here's the thing about 'whole brain emulation'
19:10 < klafka> at what level of detail is it necessary for the model to be indistinguishable from a live being
19:10 < AlonzoTG> irrelevant.
19:10 < kanzure> why does it have to be indistinguishable?
19:10 < AlonzoTG> uploading is stupid.
19:10 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: hmm
19:10 < klafka> kanzure i mean presumably if you were to do uploading
19:10 < kanzure> your argument lacks strength
19:10 < klafka> you would want it to be indistinguishable
19:10 < kanzure> klafka: not really
19:10 < eudoxia_> it's a matter of abstraction. there probbly won't be any difference between a quantum chemistry simulation and a molecular dynamics simulation of every atom in the brain. you 'just' have to find the level where the abstraction is 'just right' to preserve consciousness and also not be horribly slow
19:11 < klafka> otherwise it's like the ghosts in william gibson's
19:11 < kanzure> i'm very much distinguishable from yesterday-me :)
19:11 < Steel_> fucking molecular dynamics
19:11 < klafka> eudoxia_ that's basically what i was saying
19:11 < Steel_> fucking atomic finite element method.
19:11 < Steel_> rage.
19:11 < klafka> or rather, i was saying we don't know what that level is
19:11 < kanzure> eudoxia_: wtf is consciousness?
19:11 < kanzure> a long time ago i think i banned the word 'consciousness' in here
19:11 < klafka> also i agree with kanzure
19:11 < klafka> i think consciousness is a red herring
19:12 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ
19:12 < jrayhawk> haha
19:12 <@kanzure> we will have none of it
19:12 <@kanzure> we will be unconscious damn it!
19:12 < QuantumG> I think my consciousness uploaded into a server would just get crazy bored and try to take over the world.. I mean, what else am I gunna do?
19:12 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by ChanServ
19:12 < kanzure> QuantumG: wait you're already not trying to take over the world?
19:13 < QuantumG> better keep my uploaded consciousness strictly controlled
19:13 < AlonzoTG> If you stitch together the postings of a given uploader it will basically read: "I intensely want a computer to emulate my mind so that my conscious experience will be exactly, precisely indistinguishable from what it is now." =P
19:13 < QuantumG> kanzure: shhhh
19:13 < klafka> QuantumG crazy realistic porno simulators
19:13 < klafka> or just have the pleasure centers of your brain stimulated
19:13 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: bullshit
19:13 < klafka> or the 'mystic centers'
19:13 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: where did anyone say that in here?
19:13 < kanzure> you have a history of making this shit up dude
19:14 < AlonzoTG> I have that already, it's called my imagination, I use it frequently. ;)
19:14 < QuantumG> klafka: I'm sure that would be an effective part of the strict controls
19:14 < AlonzoTG> Kanzure: you aren't reading the right (wrong) authors...
19:15 < QuantumG> "damn you!  I'm mad as hell and I'm not gunna take it anymore!!" <bzzzt> "ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... ok, what's the next task?"
19:15 < klafka> haha
19:17 < kanzure> ok i need to go find food
19:17 < kanzure> my sleep schedule is all kinds of fucked up
19:17 < AlonzoTG> om
19:17 < AlonzoTG> At least you got some.
19:17 < kanzure> jrayhawk: please kick/ban at your convenience
19:17 < kanzure> 18 hours of sleep is probably not healthy
19:17 < AlonzoTG> You must have needed it for some reason.
19:18 < AlonzoTG> I hope you will benefit from it throughout the week.
19:18 < AlonzoTG> Alright, uploaders: reconcile this:
19:19 < AlonzoTG> Your argument that uploading is desirable is based on the radical improvements your upload will (somehow) acquire.
19:19 < kanzure> i wonder if i could somehow convince AlonzoTG to map his argument to why parents should/shouldn't have children
19:20 < AlonzoTG> Your argument that your upload is you is based on the absence of differences between you and your copy (both ignoring and idolizing the change in substrate).
19:20 < AlonzoTG> You can't have it both ways.
19:20 < AlonzoTG> You can't rest on pattern identity theory when the pattern is actually the second thing you want to change.
19:21 < klafka> i don't see why the substrate matters
19:21 < klafka> a mind is information
19:21 < AlonzoTG> Some people seem to think it's all important.
19:22 < AlonzoTG> Specifically, they reject the human brain as an acceptable medium for human consciousness.
19:22 < Steel_> insufficiently safe medium, perhaps
19:22 < klafka> well the argument could be, eidatic memory recall, and faster processing
19:23 < eudoxia_> well if you're running a simulation of the brain you'd have the same memory, skills, everything
19:23 < AlonzoTG> An upload will have neither benefit.
19:23 < eudoxia_> the benefit comes from modifying the copy afterwards, and neurosurgery on an upload would probably be easier
19:23 < klafka> meh but an upload can easily modify themselves to have these
19:23 < AlonzoTG> Eudox: exactly.
19:23 < klafka> right
19:23 < eudoxia_> how easy is it to modify the human brain to have these?
19:23 < AlonzoTG> Which violates pattern identity theory.
19:24 < klafka> i've never heard of pattern identity theory
19:24 < AlonzoTG> YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!!
19:24 < klafka> but i don't really see why it matters?
19:24 < AlonzoTG> All of uploading is based on the notion of pattern identity theory.
19:24 < eudoxia_> I don't think the fact that the copy will diverge after the upload isn't that important. If the uplaod and the copy are the same at the moment of the uploading, then it would be fine for most people
19:24 < klafka> right
19:24 < AlonzoTG> that's not even the issue.
19:25 < klafka> an upload of necessity will change ;over time, as human brains do
19:25 < QuantumG> your premise is wrong.. I don't think someone with an identical brain to me is me.
19:25 < AlonzoTG> I want to be able to change in ways far far beyond the human brain.
19:25 < klafka> ok
19:25 < AlonzoTG> Exactly quantum, that is a refutation of pattern identity theory.
19:26 < klafka> ok
19:26 < Steel_> can you be supportive of uploading just to have more people very similar to you?
19:26 < QuantumG> but I still think more than one person with an identical brain to me is (sometimes) beneficial to me.
19:26 < klafka> why can't i support uploading while rejecting pattern identity theory
19:26 < QuantumG> indeed.
19:26 < AlonzoTG> Not really because there is a social movement that would happily shoot me once an upload of me comes on line, so as a matter of self-preservation I will refuse to have any upload so that killing me is always, unambiguously, murder.
19:27 < Steel_> enough of me and I'll solve that problem REAL quick
19:27 < klafka> AlonzoTG, what?
19:27 < AlonzoTG> Exactly what I said.
19:27 < AlonzoTG> =(
19:27 < QuantumG> but honestly, I don't even care if it is my brain that is uploaded.. in fact, I can think of plenty of situations when it would be much better if it wasn't me.  Someone smarter would be good for some applications.. someone more docile for others.
19:28 < eudoxia_> A few days ago Utopiah asked if anyone had explored the concept of uploading as a means for self-improvement rather than "being safe on the net". it's arguably easier to be safe as a human, i mean, how long does a modern processor last before it becomes unusable due to age? And the luddites Alonzo mentioned. A human brain would arguably be safer, but from the self-improvement point of view, an upload would be a better
19:28 < eudoxia_>  substrate
19:28 < QuantumG> there are social movements that value your life for how it can serve them/society and will choose the mind that they can have more control over, yes.
19:28 < eudoxia_> well undo the last part, an upload isn't a substrate
19:28 < eudoxia_> but you get the point
19:29 < eudoxia_> You could spawn copies, modify them, observe them, incorporate beneficial changes and , um, kill them. or you could do the virtual neurosurgery on yourself and have a program say something like "Are you feeling okay? What is 2+2? Press OK within 15 seconds to keep these changes"
19:30 < AlonzoTG> =P
19:30 < AlonzoTG> But for me, transhumanism is all about bionic boobies.
19:30 < Steel_> for me, it's about theseus shipping into a sun
19:30 < AlonzoTG> so all this intelligence augmentation stuff is so that I can build a mind that can master nanotechnology for the purpose of manufacturing bionic boobies.
19:31 < AlonzoTG> yeah, theseus is cool.
19:31 < QuantumG> suspending a consciousness (which is only a temporary form of death) would be possible with a digital mind.
19:31 < AlonzoTG> so what??
19:31 < AlonzoTG> I don't care.
19:32 < eudoxia_> it's not muder if you shut it down while it's paused!
19:32 < jrayhawk> man, i can't wait for our hard-takeoff AI overlords to destroy us all so i never read another conversation about uploading
19:32 < QuantumG> I think it would be fun to make a copy of my mind now, boot it up in 10 years time and ask it what it thought of my life.  I bet it would be honest.
19:32 < AlonzoTG> jrayhawk: =)
19:32 < AlonzoTG> I'm very disappointed with my life. =(
19:33 < AlonzoTG> I'm out of work.
19:33 < AlonzoTG> I have about $6 of usable money right now.
19:33 < Steel_> what's your background?
19:33 < AlonzoTG> Computer science.
19:33 < AlonzoTG> I have a BS in CS.
19:33 < QuantumG> are there not people who value your services?
19:33 < Steel_> defense, maybe?
19:33 < jrayhawk> eat the money, gain its power
19:34 < AlonzoTG> but I'm also self-taught in many subjects including electronics, neural science, biology, etc...
19:34 < QuantumG> bid on some contracts, someone will take you up
19:34 < QuantumG> sheesh
19:34 < AlonzoTG> Everyone wants to hire microserfs.
19:34 < AlonzoTG> and web programmers.
19:34 < Steel_> how long out of school are you
19:34 < QuantumG> there's people in the world who can't even wait tables properly
19:34 < AlonzoTG> my school career was totally fucked up.
19:35 < AlonzoTG> I graduated HS in 1996 but I didn't escape college until 2009. =(
19:35 < QuantumG> nice
19:36 < Steel_> how much work experience do you have
19:36 < QuantumG> stop saying you can't and go find someone willing to trade for your skills.
19:36 < AlonzoTG> I made $20 yesterday re-inserting a ribbon cable into an ice dispenser of someone's fridge...
19:36 < AlonzoTG> I've worked several jobs.
19:36 < Steel_> why not apply defenes?
19:36 < Steel_> *defense
19:36 < AlonzoTG> The best was the few months I spent at the Carnegie Institute of Washington.
19:36 < Steel_> unless you have a drug history, misdemeanors or felonies...
19:36 < AlonzoTG> Fuck the millitary.
19:36 < Steel_> ah, that's what I suspected
19:36 < AlonzoTG> No sane human being would EVER consider working for the millitary.
19:37 < Steel_> sup, I'm clearly insane
19:37 < AlonzoTG> =(
19:37 < AlonzoTG> The millitary industrial complex is destroying our civilization.
19:37 < AlonzoTG> (among other things).
19:38 < Steel_> nah, unsufficient taxes to deal with the fact that productivity is being handled by machines/evened out across third world is destroying it moreso
19:38 < jrayhawk> it's a military-industrial-congressional complex, and steel is removing money from the recursive cycle
19:38 < AlonzoTG> Lybia, for example, was the leader in economic development of all of africa, so therefore the powers that be ordered it destroyed. =(
19:38 < Steel_> also an absolutely terrible place under a crazy leader :)
19:38 < AlonzoTG> Steel: that's not even half of the story.
19:39 < Steel_> of the parts I give a shit about it is
19:39 < AlonzoTG> That's just propaganda.
19:39 < Steel_> In the far future, when all sentient life are supercomputer in computronium stars--there will be two stars that go to war with militaries
19:39 < AlonzoTG> Gadafi proved that benevolent could be used in the same sentence as dictator, same with Hussein to some extent.
19:39 < Steel_> because their rationalities will differ and they won't be able to predict with 100% the end result
19:40 < Steel_> Nah, the problem with the military is the acquisitions process
19:40 < AlonzoTG> I don't want any computronium stars in my neighborhood.
19:40 < Steel_> some territorial fighting
19:40 < Steel_> and the size of the army
19:40 < Steel_> put more money into area control, less into holding countries
19:40 < AlonzoTG> Yes, so don't support it by working for them.
19:40 < Steel_> and bring back the goddamn naval railgun program
19:40 < Steel_> I'm going into predictive modeling
19:40 < Steel_> ie helping people make mathematical backed decisions
19:41 < AlonzoTG> Yeah, I could never imagine how a hand-held device could generate enough current to support a rail-gun but a ship-based weapon would work,
19:42 < Steel_> it was a project that was showing clear advancement
19:42 < AlonzoTG> I had heard about it, didn't know it was canceled.
19:42 < AlonzoTG> But right now the country is eleven kinds of fucked up.
19:42 < AlonzoTG> =(
19:42 < Steel_> eh, everywhere is
19:42 < QuantumG> oh, last point on mind uploading:  if I have the choice, I'll take engineered AI.. because 1) I'll know how it works and 2) no-one will have an ethical claim
19:42 < eudoxia_> wait wha -- they canceled the railgun project?
19:42 < AlonzoTG> If I worked for the military, I"d be part of the problem.
19:42 < Steel_> yeah, eudoxia_
19:42 < Steel_> fucking retards
19:43 < Steel_> it would have paid off in transcontinental ballistic flights, too :-/
19:43 < QuantumG> dude, if you're in *America* then you're part of the problem.
19:43 < AlonzoTG> Not really.
19:43 < Steel_> If you're a human you're part of the problem
19:43 < Steel_> except it's not a problem
19:43 < Steel_> it's the wonder of the human condition :3
19:43 < AlonzoTG> I am, defacto, in a sit-down strike so therefore I'm not being a problem for anyone.
19:44 < QuantumG> what are you striking for?
19:44 < AlonzoTG> nothing,
19:44 < AlonzoTG> I do want to work.
19:44 < AlonzoTG> I just can't find anyone who's willing to hire me.
19:44 < AlonzoTG> =(
19:44 < QuantumG> so you make not demands.. do you grant them?
19:44 < QuantumG> s/not/no/
19:45 < AlonzoTG> Well, anyway, I still have Netflix to watch. =P
19:45 < Steel_> make shitty apps then
19:45 < Steel_> I dunno
19:45 < QuantumG> I expect you can find people willing to hire you, you're just not tryin'
19:45 < Steel_> work for a power company
19:45 < QuantumG> you think you're too good for them.
19:46 < Steel_> what about goog/msft/aapl/oracle/whatever?
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19:48 < jrayhawk> life hint: it's far easier to find someone willing to pay you for being useful if you are already being useful
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19:48 < Steel_> or make them think so at least
19:49 < QuantumG> I remember I called this guy once and started the conversation with "I read your ad, and I can't even tell what the hell it is you want.. maybe if you explain what you need I'll be able to tell you want I can provide you" and the result was a 20 minute conversation that ended in about $10k worth of work.
19:52 < QuantumG> but you've gotta be willing to give them what they want.  If they want something written in C, you write it in C, even if you think it would be better in C++ or Java.  You can tell them your expert opinion, but ultimately it's their choice.
20:07 < AlonzoTG> I like C.  I don't like C#
20:08 < AlonzoTG> but C# is the language of the hour, cuz microsoft says it is. =(
20:08 < Steel_> I think I figured out how to make a singular doc oc arm
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20:11 < QuantumG> who cares?
20:12 < QuantumG> what does what you like have to do with anything?
20:12 < QuantumG> people don't pay you to fulfil your programming language preferences.
20:15 < AlonzoTG> =\
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20:20 < AlonzoTG> but ppl think that if I haven't programmed in something professionally, there is no way I can productively use it for them...
20:20 < AlonzoTG> not that I WANT to use C#
20:20 < AlonzoTG> but I could if I had to.
20:21 < QuantumG> yes, as I said, you don't actually want to work.
20:22 < AlonzoTG> Perhaps not,
20:22 < AlonzoTG> But I'm desparetely short on anime.
20:22 < AlonzoTG> and anime costs money.
20:23 < Steel_> ...
20:23 < Steel_> Wow.
20:28 < AlonzoTG> .
20:32 < kanzure> anime doesn't cost much when you download it
20:32 < kanzure> also, i like how goatse.cx is offering email addresses now
20:34 < kanzure> hmm chrome bug: i have a tab open and dragged it (tried to drag it to the front of the tab stack) and now the "drag" overlay is stuck on my screen
20:35 < eudoxia_> OH GOD deus ex has a reference to mechanosynthesis
20:35 < eudoxia_> THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER
20:36 < kanzure> are you playing?
20:36 < eudoxia_> yes
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21:06 < AlonzoTG> maybe I'll buy it, but I don't have any money.
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21:17 < JayDugger> QuantumG, Zyvex used to operate "down the street" from me. They since have more or less split into parts, one of which, DCG Systems, makes semiconductor manufacturing tools (metrology, mostly, IIRC). That part moves shop to Austin by June next year.
21:18 < JayDugger> AlonzoTG, You can avoid the cost of buying Deus Ex by watching the walkthroughs on YouTube.
21:26 < JayDugger> I don't think America's Office of Naval Research canceled its Electromagnetic Railgun. You can check for yourself by asking the Research Program Office, Roger Ellis. +1 (703) 696-9504 or roger.ellis@navy.mil.
21:26 < JayDugger> s/Office/Officer/
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21:27 < jrayhawk> Deus Ex is one of few games not particularly well served by the walkthrough treatment.
21:27 < jrayhawk> Both DX and DXHR.
21:27 < JayDugger> No doubt it comes in a distant second to actual gameplay.
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21:28 < JayDugger> The repeated betrayals of the protagonist in the original game come to mind.
21:31 < JayDugger> Watching YouTube video costs only time. Game play costs more time and money (theft aside). One would almost certainly get more for the greater cost. Walkthroughs also help avoid stinkers, such as DXIW.
21:37 < jrayhawk> actually, i guess http://it-he.org/deus.htm was pretty good
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23:19 < kanzure> http://i.imgur.com/j3GE0.jpg
23:30 < jrayhawk> my god they're colluding to destroy physiotypicals
--- Log closed Mon Sep 05 00:00:56 2011