--- Log opened Mon Sep 05 00:00:56 2011
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06:03 < wrldpc> Anyone have the deep web search engine link that was posted here last week?
06:05 < Utopiah> wrldpc: http://multisearch.deepwebaccess.com/multisearch/ ?
06:05 < wrldpc> thank you! :D
06:06 < Utopiah> np
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06:43 < Utopiah> wrldpc: quick tip though, consider keeping logs and using a search software like Sphinx, pretty handy
06:43 < wrldpc> understood, ty :)
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08:24 < wrldpc> anyone have artifact war pdf?
08:26 < kanzure> fenn might
08:46 < archels> Artilect War by DeGaris?
08:46 < archels> I've looked it for it and come up empty..
08:46 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-76-125-242-200.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:47 < delinquentme> if you're programming microcontrollers... what language are you using?
08:49 < kanzure> assembly, motherfuckers
08:50 < kanzure> but arduino has its own language
08:50 < delinquentme> lol
08:50 < delinquentme> yeah
08:50 < delinquentme> but jcline said dont use c++
08:50 < delinquentme> me: wth?
08:50 < delinquentme> i thought c++ and its variants ( the arduino lang ) are what you program with
08:50 < kanzure> what else did he say
08:51 < delinquentme> that was end of his statement on it
08:51 < delinquentme> kanzure, you taking any of the other stanford classes?
08:52 < kanzure> only a few hundred thousand times
08:52 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/ai-class.py
09:05 < archels> delinquentme: one uses C, generally.
09:06 < delinquentme> ahh ok
09:06 < archels> also wtf, there is no Arduino language
09:06 < delinquentme> meh!
09:06 < delinquentme> its the arduino variant
09:06 < archels> just some C libraries to make it easier on the real dummies
09:06 < delinquentme> are C and C++ horribly different
09:07 < archels> You can technically use any language, so long as you can compile it to binary for your target.
09:07 < archels> in syntax no, in philosophy yes
09:07 < archels> But you don't really need object orientation on the average microcontroller.
09:09 < kanzure> my bad.. i've never used arduino, just "raw compile yer binaries for the target"
09:10 < archels> If you ever consider buying an Arduino, please mention it so I can slap some sense into you.
09:11 < delinquentme> archels, i own one
09:11 < delinquentme> lol
09:11 < archels> Well, if you're with the real dummies I mentioned earlier, then that's fine.
09:11 < delinquentme> so you're saying i could program a MC in ruby?
09:12 < archels> Otherwise, you should realise by yourself pretty soon that you should dump it.
09:12 < delinquentme> archels, the thing is i want a support community
09:12 < delinquentme> arduino gives me that
09:12 < archels> If you can find a compiler for it, sure! (Good luck with that.)
09:12 < delinquentme> actually there is one
09:12 < delinquentme> now that im actually thinking
09:12 < delinquentme> RAD = ruby arduino development
09:12 < archels> yeah? Might be, I'm not actually into Ruby at all.
09:13 < archels> haha oh god it exists
09:15 < archels> kinda lame that they called it *Arduino* development and not just 'Ruby for AVR' or somesuch
09:16 < delinquentme> archels, where are your robots :D
09:16 < delinquentme> anddo you prefer c or c++
09:18 < archels> C usually (like, 99.9%) gets the job done on a microcontroller. However, if your firmware is very complex, then there's much to be said for C++'s OO model.
09:18 < delinquentme> 00 model?
09:18 < archels> object oriented
09:19 < archels> C++ gives a lot of overhead compared to C, so it's rarely used.
09:20 < delinquentme> hmmm
09:21 < archels> But it's a perfectly reasonable alternative, and there will be AVR compilers for it.
09:21 < archels> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/FAQ.html#faq_cplusplus
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09:48 < delinquentme> seeing all kinds of awesome posts about how intel is branching into bio research
09:48 < delinquentme> .... from 2003 ;/
10:00 < klafka_> LOL
10:02 < klafka_> there was a bit of a biotech bubble around then
10:02 < delinquentme> wasnt that post burst?
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10:25 < Tyrant> delinquentme: are you a robot with an identity crisis?
10:25 < delinquentme> ha!
10:25 < delinquentme> kinda lol
10:26 < delinquentme> awesome.. so yeah its like wtf do i want it to do
10:26 < delinquentme> im pretty settled on the peristaltic pump .. so no need for individual head controls
10:26 < delinquentme> so its going ot basically be a 8 channel pipette ... i think im gonna do a slight up and down motion ... in attempt to control splash
10:27 < delinquentme> and sticking to the plate moves underneath ... and with only a single plate running under the head
10:29 < Tyrant> are you dispensing some sort of liquid from a reservoir into the plates or do you want to pull liquid from one plate and ddrop into another
10:30 < delinquentme> dispensing from a resiviour
10:30 < Tyrant> ah got it
10:30 < Tyrant> that makes more sense
10:30 < delinquentme> yeah thats that peristaltic pump goodness
10:31 < Tyrant> are you sure it can get the kind of accuracies you'd need?
10:31 < Tyrant> All of the dispensers I've seen that can do 1-10 or even 100uL were all notched piston based
10:31 < delinquentme> yeah im shooting for 2uL
10:31 < delinquentme> im pretty sure i can hit that ... comparatively its not really accurate
10:32 < delinquentme> tbh i have no concept of the physican involved with the liquid moving ... this is a presumption
10:32 < Tyrant> lol
10:32 < delinquentme> maybe i should shoot for 10ul
10:32 < Tyrant> even 10uL is difficult
10:32 < delinquentme> welcome to my dev process
10:32 < Tyrant> 1uL is doable
10:32 < Tyrant> 100 nL is insane
10:33 < delinquentme> yeah haha ill leave that up to the guy with precision ground ceramics
10:33 < Tyrant> bleh im prototyping with 3d
10:33 < Tyrant> printing
10:33 < delinquentme> but i really love those actuators you sent
10:33 < Tyrant> the ground ceramics have a 3 week lead time
10:33 < delinquentme> fucking lead times
10:33 < Tyrant> yeah
10:33 < delinquentme> i did assloads of research on a stepper
10:34 < Tyrant> I spent last few days contacting a lot of senior people at the 3d printer companeis
10:34 < delinquentme> and they were like " awesome put in the order today and we can have them for you in 4 weeks"
10:34 < Tyrant> last night the CEO fo Objet replied
10:34 < delinquentme> -_-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
10:34 < Tyrant> hopefully that goes somewhere
10:34 < Tyrant> mcmaster or amazon it
10:34 < delinquentme> just dont buy ball bearings from mcmaster
10:34 < delinquentme> DO however buy carbide shafts from them
10:35 < klafka_> hmm if there is a chance a reference could ever speak ill of you it probably behooves you to not use them
10:35 < delinquentme> they're cheaper than their stainless lol
10:35 < Tyrant> http://bigbearingstore.com/
10:35 < Tyrant> whoops wrong url
10:35 < Tyrant> http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/
10:35 < delinquentme> klafka, get them to write a recommendation
10:35 < klafka_> delinquentme: job wants their # to call them
10:36 < delinquentme> they're on a exotic trip researching in the Himalayas
10:36 < delinquentme> wont have phone for the next 5 years
10:36 < delinquentme> sounds legit right?
10:39 < Tyrant> delinquentme: http://www.ivek.com/literature/pump_modules-illustrations_by_actuator_type.pdf
10:39 < Tyrant> look at some of their pumps
10:39 < Tyrant> try to copy them
10:39 < Tyrant> just dont bother asking them for shit
10:40 < delinquentme> free samples you mean?
10:41 < Tyrant> anything
10:41 < Tyrant> quotes
10:41 < Tyrant> samples
10:41 < Tyrant> common courtesy
10:42 < Tyrant> im guessing their stuff is crazy expensive
10:42 < Tyrant> so you definitely wont get samples
10:43 < Tyrant> however, if the autopipetter is anything to go by, it's not very complicated
10:43 < Tyrant> just high precision parts
10:43 < delinquentme> who would have thought any innovation is going on in VT
10:45 < delinquentme> did you specify " I'd like an email back "
10:45 < delinquentme> ?
10:46 < delinquentme> and Tyrant you're working on a multi plate handler .. so something with an array of say 12 plates ... with a XYZ head .. interchangeable tips
10:46 < delinquentme> and what am i missing
10:49 < Tyrant> i called them 4 times for a quote
10:49 < Tyrant> yeha
10:49 < Tyrant> 3' by 2' by 1-2' [xyz]
10:49 < Tyrant> first target is 10uL then 1uL then .1uL
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10:50 < Tyrant> with disposables or fixed tip
10:50 < delinquentme> what processes jump between plates like that?
10:51 < delinquentme> lots?
10:51 < delinquentme> i was planning hotels for that
10:51 < Tyrant> i have a list somewhere
10:52 < Tyrant> but there are many processes that can be done via liquid handler
10:53 < delinquentme> id love that list if its around :D
10:55 < Tyrant> i'll find it after breakfast
10:55 < delinquentme> awesome
11:00 < Tyrant> ok this is a really specific list
11:01 < Tyrant> western blots, qPCR, cell staining for microscopy and flowcytometry, RNA prep and cDNA synth, flow cytometry, transfection, cell splitting, DNA purification
11:01 < delinquentme> actually this is prob a better question for you Tyrant ... pipette tips
11:01 < delinquentme> they're fairly standard right?
11:01 < delinquentme> the female ends i mean
11:02 < delinquentme> IE the notch platement and the diameter
11:03 < Tyrant> lolno
11:03 < delinquentme> O_O
11:03 < delinquentme> feck
11:03 < delinquentme> thats gay
11:03 < Tyrant> they're somewhat standard, but they all have a lot of differences
11:03 < Tyrant> like Gilson has their Diamond series
11:03 < Tyrant> its not compatible with many
11:03 < delinquentme> whos tips should i design around
11:03 < delinquentme> IE what is the most standard tip
11:05 < Tyrant> no idea
11:05 < Tyrant> my tip is just tapered so i can get as many as possible
11:05 < delinquentme> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14763223   mini engines
11:06 < delinquentme> how about the ejection mechanism
11:07 < Tyrant> you just have metal rings that are not connected to the tip but are right above it so that when your linear actuator moves UP from its resting positing, the metal ring knocks off the tip
11:09 < Tyrant> ie the linear actuator's resting position isn't fully retracted, it's 1cm extended and when it retracts to 0cm the disposable tips hit the metal ring
11:09 < delinquentme> yeah same mechanism of ejecting on pipettes
11:16 < delinquentme> ok Tyrant you mentioned the compression of air before
11:16 < delinquentme> is there a specific reason that cant be handled in software?
11:16 < Tyrant> It's very unpredictable
11:16 < delinquentme> really?
11:16 < delinquentme> how so
11:16 < delinquentme> honestly i thought it would have been a simple function .. linear even
11:17 < Tyrant> It depends on many many factors like the stiffness of your tubing, temperature, composition of the air, flow rate, and so on
11:18 < Tyrant> The range of compression on water is +- 2% across all realistic conditions
11:18 < Tyrant> on air the difference could be massive
11:18 < Tyrant> and there will be no way to sense the compression
11:18 < delinquentme> viscosity of liquid too
11:18 < Tyrant> nor the exact conditions that you could use to calculate it
11:19 < delinquentme> gotya
11:19 < Tyrant> and if you could it would cost more than just using a system fluid anyway
11:20 < Tyrant> What is this email that you sent me
11:20 < delinquentme> its from the SILA guys
11:21 < Tyrant> no idea what that is
11:21 < delinquentme> they're a coop who work to standardize automation
11:21 < delinquentme> Tecan and Thermo are members
11:24 < Tyrant> lol
11:24 < Tyrant> they'r members, they just dont follow teh standard? XP
11:24 < delinquentme> haha well its like marriage counseling for biotech giants
11:25 < delinquentme> before i talk too much shit ima check out their form standards
11:25 < delinquentme> who knows ... pipette tips should be one of the first things that you standardize
11:26 < delinquentme> and how about verification of liquid amounts Tyrant ?
11:26 < Tyrant> Im not thinking about that right now
11:26 < delinquentme> kk
11:26 < Tyrant> im going to calibrate my equipment
11:26 < delinquentme> the big guys use pressure profiles
11:26 < Tyrant> but i dont know how to do that out in the field
11:27 < Tyrant> as long as the movements are consistent i dont think i will need to do anything but confirm its pipetting at the right precision
11:27 < delinquentme> agreed i think the "oh crap we picked up a leaf" are pretty fringe cases
11:29 < Tyrant> you were right about 3d printing btsw
11:29 < Tyrant> btw
11:29 < Tyrant> i got pissed off at all the lead times and actually took a look at Objet and 3d Systems
11:30 < Tyrant> those are some really nice printers
11:30 < Tyrant> I contacted the CEO of Objet
11:31 < Tyrant> hopefully i'll get one of their Connex systems
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11:51 < delinquentme> hence why ive gone w the parameric
11:51 < delinquentme> parametric
11:51 < delinquentme> plus its just cool to see the production and the concepting to be mated so closely
11:52 < Tyrant> what do you mean you went with hte parametric?
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11:53 < delinquentme> the parametric sorry
11:53 < delinquentme> solidworks
11:53 < delinquentme> versus a cad 2d program
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12:02 < Tyrant> lol
12:05 < delinquentme> well others made suggestions as well :D
12:05 < delinquentme> but like i think its fascinating how the coupling is becoming more and more intimate
12:06 < Tyrant> yeah
12:06 < delinquentme> like if you've got a good rendering of a machine in solid works .. you've basically got a working proto
12:06 < Tyrant> but its so expensive
12:06 < delinquentme> to print or buy software?
12:06 < Tyrant> both lol
12:06 < Tyrant> the software is generally thousands
12:06 < Tyrant> the printing is tens of thousands
12:06 < Tyrant> if not hundreds
12:06 < Tyrant> for your own machine i mean
12:07 < delinquentme> yeah i had to take out a loan against my power wheels
12:07 < delinquentme> oh yeah fuck buying your own machine
12:07 < delinquentme> well until its necessary
12:07 < Tyrant> Its necessary right unfortuantely
12:07 < Tyrant> im getting 1-2 week lead times for parts that i know im going to have to replace within a few days
12:08 < delinquentme> whaaaat
12:08 < delinquentme> have you tried 100k garages?
12:08 < Tyrant> yeah
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12:08 < Tyrant> everyone who has a good enough 3d printer is backed up
12:10 < delinquentme> coudfab?
12:10 < delinquentme> cloudfab**
12:10 < Tyrant> 7-10 days
12:10 < Tyrant> shapeways: 10 days
12:11 < delinquentme> ponoko is gonna be longer
12:11 < delinquentme> ummm
12:11 < Tyrant> and their precision is suspect
12:11 < delinquentme> have you tried contacting a manufacturer directly?
12:11 < Tyrant> manufacturer of what?
12:11 < delinquentme> surely the head guys at zcorp have one in their basement
12:11 < Tyrant> ah i did
12:11 < Tyrant> I contacted objet
12:11 < delinquentme> so like the people who mfg the devices
12:11 < Tyrant> CEO replied to me last night
12:11 < delinquentme> and hes got to have a machine of his own
12:11 < delinquentme> be like listen
12:11 < Tyrant> waiting for the president of Objet US to contact me
12:11 < delinquentme> this is something fundimentally different
12:12 < delinquentme> im not making rocking chairs
12:17 < delinquentme> Just shot an email to zcord guys
12:17 < delinquentme> corp**
12:17 < delinquentme> ill let u know
12:18 < Tyrant> lol who'd you email
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12:56 < ybit> the problem with the makerbot, go
12:56 < ybit> s/go/discuss
12:57 < ybit> all i see are phrases like it's the devil, but no reasons to back it up, closest i can see is "well at least makerbot admits they don't know what they're doing wrt electronics"
12:58 < Tyrant> is this wrt what delinquent and i were just talking about?
12:59 < ybit> did not know about this: http://reprap.org/wiki/1X2
13:00 < ybit> i thought it was a misspelling of "with"
13:00 < ybit> or a netspeak spelling of "with"
13:01 < Tyrant> ?
13:01 < ybit> e.g. i has nomz in me kittens
13:02 < ybit> http://pp3dp.com :: the price has been went up 1k
13:05 < ybit> i'm guessing they are more concerned about profits then lowering the costs of 3d printing
13:06 < ybit> s/then/than
13:06 < ybit> so there's a complaint
13:20  * ybit retires to studies
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14:57 < ybit> Unredacted Wikileaks Cable  Archive: http://cryptome.org/z/z.7z
15:03 < delinquentme> Tyrant, did you happen to have specific steps for the protocols listed?
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15:29 < Tyrant> delinquentme: no i don't, i just jotted down a quick list fo possible uses
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16:07 < kanzure> ybit: you're screwing up your words dude
16:07 < kanzure> ybit: wrt is "with respect to"
16:07 < kanzure> "the price has been went up 1k"
16:07 < kanzure> also, good morning
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16:20 < ybit> yes, yes i saw that
16:20 < ybit> also, good morning to you... where are you that it's morning time? :)
16:21 < kanzure> austin
16:21 < kanzure> how to run opencascade on android http://www.opencascade.org/org/forum/thread_21752/
16:34 < ybit> http://humanityplus.org/projects/gadaprize/ directs people to #hplusroadmap instead of ##hplusroadmap
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16:35 < ybit> nsh is idling in #namespace probably for forgetting the second hash as well
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16:50 < kanzure> ybit: humanityplus.org and i aren't on good terms any more
16:50 < kanzure> they'd probably press legal action if i edit their site
16:51 < Steel_> your linkedin says you're still associate director of R&D?
16:52 < kanzure> oh people use linkedin?
16:52 < kanzure> hrm
16:52 < ybit> heh
16:53 < kanzure> wait i'm supposed to be away (finding breakfast)
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17:28 < ybit> low hanging fruit for neurosci?
17:33 < ybit> nm, got it
17:36 < augur> so who's played DE:HR? :)
17:39 < ybit> http://thebeautifulbrain.com/2011/08/bluebrain-year-two/
17:40 < ybit> blue brain documentary: year two
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17:46 < kanzure> augur: eudoxia
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19:59 < delinquentme> looking fo 1x1x3 cm sized linear actuators
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20:30 < Tyrant> delinquentme: good luck, that's tiny :P
20:31 < delinquentme> Tyrant, dude let me tell you
20:31 < delinquentme> haha building this shit isnt hard
20:31 < delinquentme> finding suppliers from all the trash out there is
20:31 < Tyrant> i know that very well
20:32 < Tyrant> thats all ive been doing for two weeks
20:32 < delinquentme> im looking for CHEAP parts .. and i get plenty of matches on google for 1000 dollar linear actuators
20:32 < delinquentme> WTF
20:32 < delinquentme> no thanks
20:32 < delinquentme> http://www.guardian-electric.com/DC_Tubular_Solenoids.htm
20:32 < delinquentme> BAM this shit is like a $5 dollar job
20:32 < delinquentme> woot!
20:33 < Tyrant> what is this linear actuator for?
20:34 < Tyrant> dont mistake solenoids with linear actuators
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20:51 < delinquentme> yeah Tyrant i just need something that moves
20:51 < delinquentme> its going to be lifting the very tips of my peristaltic pump tubes
20:51 < delinquentme> up and down
20:51 < Tyrant> you mean the dispensing tips?
20:51 < delinquentme> so like its going to be lifting no more than 8 oz
20:51 < delinquentme> yeah
20:51 < delinquentme> tips and maybe the weight of 3 inches of tubing
20:52 < Tyrant> i dont think you have any control over a solenoid's position
20:52 < Tyrant> its either all extended or retracted
20:52 < delinquentme> oh thats cool
20:52 < delinquentme> :D
20:52 < Tyrant> so you'll only be able to use it for one standard
20:52 < Tyrant> height standard
20:52 < delinquentme> yeah
20:56 < delinquentme> alright sir!
20:56 < delinquentme> im out
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20:56 < delinquentme> Tyrant, dream of quick smooth and accurate mechanical motion
20:56 < delinquentme> :P
20:56 < Tyrant> you forgot precise
21:01 < delinquentme> :D
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23:15 < kanzure> blah now i have to develop for this shit? http://yi.baidu.com/
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 06 00:00:57 2011