--- Log opened Wed Oct 05 00:00:41 2011
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08:33 < Starrk> I`m watching a documentary of transhumanism by Frank Theys.
08:33 < Starrk> Someone here told me that the guy who made it regretted doing so.
08:34 < Starrk> I think I can see why. He let both sides speak, and those conspiracy theories probably get people really riled up with all that fearmongering.
09:11 < Starrk> And some people interviewed there seem a bit shady. One guy did a long talk about how he does drugs.
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09:20 < strangewarp> Starrk: Yeah, sadly some of the more out-there transhumanists are weird conspiracy theorists and aura-reader types, and not the self-aware doing-it-for-art kind either.
09:21 < SDr> that's alright. Transhumanism would have to work really hard to gain even more notoriety, than it already has
09:22 < SDr> it's, like, AI: the first thing a discipline spinning off from TH R&D does, is to rename itself to NOT TH.
09:22 < Starrk> Mmm...
09:22 < Starrk> What do you guys say about Aubrey de Grey?
09:23 < SDr> commendable goals, relatively good marketing (despite presentation), and, oh, about no demonstrable effects that I know of.
09:24 < strangewarp> My assessment is about the same as SDr's
09:24 < delinquentme> SDr aubrey is basically out there to fight people and start the bug
09:24 < SDr> which is bad for them, for they won't get a line in my donation list.
09:24 < delinquentme> as soon as people snap out of this BS " i want to die" shit
09:24 < delinquentme> theyll then start taking responsibility for what they're capable of
09:24 < SDr> delinquentme, I'm well aware of that.
09:25 < delinquentme> an idea is a very powerful thing
09:25 < delinquentme> not to mention the way he went about it
09:25 < delinquentme> pissing people off .. then getting those detractors to stick foot in mouth
09:25 < delinquentme> inspiring.
09:27 < delinquentme> just saying ... but in 1000 years .. do you think people will still be living to 80?
09:27 < Starrk> Ofcourse not.
09:28 < delinquentme> bingo.
09:28 < delinquentme> so tell me then
09:28 < delinquentme> what is more important to you .. at this very moment
09:29 < delinquentme> than keeping your ass alive
09:29 < Starrk> Perhaps I`m selfish but I`m having trouble thinking of anything like that.
09:30 < Starrk> Ofcourse I could say "saving a million people" but that is neither something I can put in practice, nor would I be honest in saying so.
09:31 < delinquentme> Starrk, ? you're selfish .. b ut you dont want to save your ass?
09:31 < Starrk> I want to live, never said I didn`t.
09:32 < delinquentme> ah ok
09:32 < delinquentme> Starrk, what do you "do "?
09:32 < Starrk> I`m a 12th grade student.
09:33 < delinquentme> do you program?
09:33 < delinquentme> you should.
09:33 < Starrk> No.
09:33 < delinquentme> do you have a cellphone :D
09:33 < delinquentme> ever use a computer?
09:33 < Starrk> If I didn`t use one, I wouldn`t be here.
09:34 < delinquentme> there u go
09:34 < delinquentme> im schemeing up ways to get my little brother into engineering
09:34 < delinquentme> quadcopters = titties
09:34 < Starrk> Your nickname fits you well.
09:35 < delinquentme> lol
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09:44 < Starrk> Well, that managed to liven the place up a bit.
09:44 < Starrk> Is it usually so that noone says a word for days here?
09:45 < delinquentme> Starrk, its all over the place
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09:45 < delinquentme> like when people are in here scheming on projects its gets pretty busy
09:45 < eudoxia> Didn't Aubrey achieve fame when some repoter walked into a bar and saw his beard and was all like "I've got to interview this man"
09:47 < Starrk> If that`s all you need, I`m going to grow a beard, too.
09:47 < Starrk> Hehee. :D
09:48 < eudoxia> http://www.harkavagrant.com/history/flemingfinal.png
10:06 < Starrk> I need my sleep.
10:06 < Starrk> Goodbye.
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11:33 < kanzure> the requirements are interesting:
11:33 < kanzure> http://astronauts.nasa.gov/content/AstroCandbro_sm_new.pdf
11:33 < kanzure> this is their ad for new astronauts
11:33 < kanzure> i think this is for the soyuz missions because that's the only thing that makes sense..
11:33 < kanzure> $60mil/passenger.. yikes
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14:04 < kanzure> hi all
14:04 < kanzure> say things!
14:07 < jrayhawk> NEVER
14:08 < superkuh> CYGX-1 is still in low state.
14:12 < kanzure> jrayhawk: you're not a team player
14:29 < strangewarp> things!
14:29 < strangewarp> must work on my music setup. @_@
14:29 < strangewarp> <-- token fine-arts transhumanist
14:37 < kanzure> what does that even mean..
14:37 < kanzure> google.com/ncr seems towin 33
14:37 < kanzure> bfldhfoawrhoiq
14:38 < kanzure> ignore that
14:45 < strangewarp> I do artsy things (which I'm good at) instead of engineering things (which I'm awful with), which is a bit inexcusable, but I'm enough of a hedonist to not mind. So I'm toying with synthesizers. whee!
14:46 < kanzure> jrayhawk: what do i do with this
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16:47 < QuantumG> Jobs died
16:49 < CryptoQuick> so sad~
16:50 < QuantumG> death of a tyrant?  I'll be over here rejoicing.
16:51 < QuantumG> "It's weird to be stirred by something like this. That said, he is more responsible than anyone else for how I view technology."   <- example of how much damage he's done to the world.
16:52 < CryptoQuick> heh
16:52 < CryptoQuick> he was magical, amazing
16:53 < QuantumG> in that he was full of tricks, sure.
16:54 < CryptoQuick> http://youtu.be/-24euRgImPg
16:54 < CryptoQuick> good night, sweet prince
16:58 < jrayhawk> Apple design is a symptom, not a cause.
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17:03 < kanzure> he will be back in a few days
17:03 < kanzure> with the iphone5
17:03 < kanzure> this is how marketing works, boys.
17:03 < jrayhawk> haha
17:04 < eudoxia> who cares about jobs they cracked femtotechnology http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/10/femtotechnology-ab-needles-fantastic.html
17:04 < eudoxia> I WANT TO BELIEVE
17:06 < kanzure> unfortunately jobs is more powerful when dead
17:06 < kanzure> if he left any sort of video product announcement people will eat it up 20x moer
17:06 < QuantumG> zombie jobs
17:06 < kanzure> *more
17:07 < kanzure> http://zombiejobs.com/
17:08 < QuantumG> damn, taken
17:23 < QuantumG> "The Thomas Edison of our time"  and people wonder why I hate the cunt.
17:24 < kanzure> aha
17:24 < kanzure> yeah it's pretty disappointing
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17:34 < kanzure> coming soon to a cinema near you... "iMan".
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17:58 < joshcryer> Nobody has ever had more contempt for customers than Mr. Jobs. Nobody. - Moglen
18:01 < eudoxia> oh god they'll make a movie about him
18:01 < eudoxia> like with michael jackson
18:01 < kanzure> yep :/
18:02 < eudoxia> he's probably alive, out there, laughing
18:02 < eudoxia> scheming
18:02 < klafka> hey
18:02 < kanzure> eudoxia: "return from the dead" is a fantastic marketing approach
18:03 < kanzure> the second coming
18:03 < jrayhawk> Um, Jobs is highly empowering to the sorts of customers who actually buy Apple products. That's sort of the point.
18:03 < klafka> jobs was a pretty excellent ceo
18:03 < klafka> and good at seizing upon the marketability of other people's ideas
18:04 < jrayhawk> We have a generation of people trained to resent choice, and Jobs has been quite good at presenting extremely narrow decision trees for them to progress down that they normally wouldn't have bothered with.
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18:04 < klafka> idk if i agree with that at all
18:04 < klafka> 'have it your way'
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18:09 < jrayhawk> But blaming Jobs for the existence of his customer base is ludicrous, and it's very disappointing to see Moglen start to adopt Stallman's inability to acknowledge the mere existence of value systems other than his own.
18:09 < jrayhawk> As if that makes his arguments more compelling.
18:09 < klafka> haha
18:09 < QuantumG> the customers didn't exist for Steve's products.. he MADE those customers
18:10 < jrayhawk> With, like, genetic engineering? Man, you guys are way behind!
18:10 < eudoxia> No, of course not
18:10 < jrayhawk> Kanzure: WE COULD BE RICH
18:10 < jrayhawk> oh
18:10 < eudoxia> He conjured them out of the luminiferous aether
18:10 < eudoxia> Get with the times man
18:11 < joshcryer> jrayhawk, Moglen said that years ago.
18:11 < joshcryer> He was pissed that Apple wouldn't let you boot via USB.
18:11 < joshcryer> Not sure if you still can't...
18:11 < joshcryer> s/pissed/annoyed
18:11 < klafka> i've certianly had problems with it
18:12 < jrayhawk> I think it's still screwy as hell due to Apple's very very imcomplete EFI implementation.
18:12 < jrayhawk> incomplete
18:12 < jrayhawk> Matthew Garrett has some blog posts about it.
18:13 < joshcryer> This is the speech it's from (search "contempt") for context: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Free_and_Open_Software:_Paradigm_for_a_New_Intellectual_Commons
18:14 < QuantumG> I don't think there's anything wrong with telling customers what they want.. right up until the moment they say "that's not what I want"
18:15 < klafka> i don't get it, if they don't want that then they go elsewhere
18:15 < klafka> design is about the designer making choices
18:16 < joshcryer> And then they give you a protective case to fix it.
18:16 < QuantumG> and they do.. in droves
18:16 < klafka> that's why OSS guis often suck, because they aren't made by designers, they are made by hackers who think 'let's give everyone as much choice as they want'
18:17 < QuantumG> I'm continually baffled by the fanbois who think Apple is a great success
18:17 < joshcryer> Heh.
18:17 < jrayhawk> uh, well, hundreds of billions of dollars might have something to do with that
18:17 < joshcryer> I'm baffled by that statement, QuantumG.
18:18 < jrayhawk> you may be a bigger believer in ideas than economy, but the economy is still worth something
18:18 < QuantumG> every product release there's more complaints than cheers, with the hard core fans claiming that the latest unwanted gadget is the second coming.
18:18 < klafka> QuantumG: i feel like you  have some serious selection bias
18:18 < joshcryer> They're 8th in profits in the world.
18:18 < klafka> they're the largest company in the US
18:18 < klafka> (market valuation)
18:18 < klafka> or is it nasdaq?
18:19 < klafka> .
18:19 < klafka> they also rate highest in customer satisfaction
18:19 < klafka> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20108336-17/apple-tops-in-customer-satisfaction-for-8th-year/
18:19 < QuantumG> and the lowest market share IN EVERY MARKET they're in.
18:20 < joshcryer> They're 2nd in smartphones (woot android).
18:20 < joshcryer> So not sure how you're defining market here.
18:20 < klafka> so, ferrari's are shit because they have a small market share?
18:20 < klafka> or rather, not successful
18:20 < QuantumG> heh, redefine the market to not include every other type of phone
18:20 < QuantumG> "the smartphone market" is like 1% of the portable phone market.
18:20 < joshcryer> Fair enough (and oops it wasn't android that took them over yet, remembered wrong).
18:21 < jrayhawk> Ferrari has a history of financial tumult
18:21 < klafka> jrayhawk: ok, porsche ?
18:21 < klafka> still has a low market share relative to most other car companies
18:21 < klafka> but has a bundle of cash
18:21 < jrayhawk> Porsche made the single most popular car of all time...?
18:21 < QuantumG> people want phones that make calls.. every new pointless feature added is .. get this .. unwanted.
18:21 < joshcryer> QuantumG, that's why I asked what you meant by market, "smartphone market" is a subset of "mobile phone market" which is now a superset of "phone market."
18:22 < klafka> i feel like you're trolling at this point
18:22 < QuantumG> why not just say the Apple market?  Apple has 100% of the Apple market!  Wow, success!
18:22 < joshcryer> Yeah I have a freaking $15 phone from Cricket.
18:23 < joshcryer> QuantumG, heh, but then there are subsets of the Apple market, such as apps... which funnily Apple does not own 100% of.
18:23 < QuantumG> don't worry, you're not the first person who has said "Apple makes products their customers want to buy!!!"
18:23 < joshcryer> I do not believe I have said that.
18:24 < QuantumG> was more directing it at klafka
18:24 < joshcryer> Ahh... my bad.
18:24 < jrayhawk> I mean, the whole market share argument is dumb, but car analogies are very hard to apply here to demonstrate that.
18:25 < klafka> i don't know where I said that either?
18:25 < joshcryer> To be sure their profitibilty bugs me because I am a dirty leftist like Moglen and want tech to be free, etc, etc.
18:25 < klafka> are you referring to customer satisfaction?
18:25 < QuantumG> hehe
18:25 < klafka> which is absolutely not the question 'does apple make products that apple customers want to buy' but rather, 'does apple make products that their customers are satisfied with once they've bought them'
18:26 < QuantumG> sigh
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18:30 < joshcryer> http://www.stevejobsfuneral.com/
18:31 < joshcryer> I found that while searching to see if he was getting a worm burial or what.
18:31 < foucist> it's probably a fake site meant to make money with the ads
18:32 < joshcryer> It is...
18:32 < jrayhawk> outstanding
18:32 < eudoxia> >Oops! Google Chrome could not find www.stevejobsfuneral.com
18:32 < joshcryer> It was registered in September, heh.
18:33 < joshcryer> I wondered if he was going to do cryonics. I always wonder that about tech or science people.
18:34 < joshcryer> Still can't belive Clarke didn't opt for it. :(
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18:49 < eudoxia> Didn't alcor offer cryonic preservation to Heinlein and Clarke for free?
18:49 < eudoxia> Not so sure about Clarke but I'm pretty sure Heinlein was offered a free ticket, even if it was likely to be a one-way trip
18:51 < QuantumG> the hippie version of Transhumanism  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PNHnxnIOHE  three parts.. good work.
18:53 < klafka> oh terrence mckenna
18:53 < eudoxia> Is it anything like this? http://vimeo.com/27671433
18:54 < eudoxia> lol "Gamers are transhuman"
18:54 < eudoxia> >Videogames offer us alternate universes where the player changes the reality simply by participating. This certainly has mystical underpinnings.
18:54 < eudoxia> I'm being trolled and I don't even care
18:55 < kanzure> just fyi QuantumG is in fact a troll
18:55 < kanzure> eudoxia: "return from the dead" is a fantastic marketing approachway
18:55 < kanzure> erjiqoirqweq
18:55 < kanzure> *but we love him anyway
18:55 < kanzure> jrayhawk: "apple, like most of america, is now jobless"
18:56 < kanzure> jrayhawk: "we could be RICH" who is this we, poorboy
18:56 < QuantumG> kanzure: why do you do that?  What justifies that claim?
18:58 < kanzure> first, this claim doesn't really damage you in any way
18:58 < kanzure> second, i do it because i do think your value system is trollish
18:58 < QuantumG> well, it does.. perhaps you're not aware that some people attack others by using that word
18:59 < QuantumG> tell us what "troll" means to you.. and we'll see if others agree with your usage.
19:00 < eudoxia> It means whatever people want it to mean at the moment
19:00 < eudoxia> Like "God" or "love"
19:00 < joshcryer> eudoxia, Clarke gave Cryonics a 90% chance at one point, I'm not sure how his views changed on that matter.
19:00 < joshcryer> Death has a way of resigning us to it.
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19:01 < joshcryer> Instinctual coping mechanism or something.
19:01 < kanzure> QuantumG: if it makes you feel better i do not enjoy the apple fanboyism either
19:01 < joshcryer> Yeah, I'm getting over the whole toxic shit of being pissed at shit that's stupid, I decided.
19:02 < joshcryer> I used to bash Apple fanboys a lot.
19:02 < joshcryer> I just posted the Moglen quote because I loves me some Moglen and I know I'm with friends (even if we disagree on some minor points). FREE THE TECH!
19:02 < joshcryer> :P
19:02  * joshcryer afks
19:03 < QuantumG> see.. for all the usage I've seen of the term.. calling someone a troll is a coded way of saying "we should ostracise this guy", and typically the justifications come later: oh, he's just pretending to be contra to get a rise out of people, etc.
19:04 < QuantumG> when it comes to Apple, I think I have been so consistent in my criticism for years and years that anyone calling me a "troll" for expressing such simply doesn't know me.  You know me.
19:04 < kanzure> hmm i think i was more talking about the terrence mckenna stuff
19:04 < kanzure> but, the comments about ferrari aren't far off
19:05 < QuantumG> ok.. all I said was that it was the more hippie version of transhumanism that I've heard.. I also said it was great work.  It's a good video, but it's too mystical for my liking.
19:06 < QuantumG> so if you're calling me a troll for that, I don't know what definition of "troll" you're using, and considering the coded meaning, I don't understand why you're attacking me.
19:07 < kanzure> i am not attacking you but suggesting to others that your opinion (that terrence mckenna is worht recommending in this context) isn't really standard or that its contentvalue isn't worth much in this case
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19:09 < QuantumG> ok, well, if you say "kill that sucka" and then say "I don't actually mean shoot him" when someone asks you why, then you're responsible for the result.
19:10 < QuantumG> calling me a troll and having people who respect your opinion ostracise me is something you have to take responsibility for.
19:10 < QuantumG> so if you don't want people to ostracise me, or you don't want me to feel that you want people to ostracise me, then please choose another word.
19:11 < joshcryer> hey! I don't respect his opinion! how dare you
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19:12 <@kanzure> :p
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19:15 < jrayhawk> mysticism has that effect on some people
19:15 < jrayhawk> or, i guess i should say, harsh toke, dude
19:27 < jrayhawk> QuantumG: 'troll' refers to a manipulation of a dialogue to ends ostensibly undesirable to its participants
19:28 < QuantumG> failure to participate in the group think eh?
19:28 < kanzure> vim wizard magic: http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/11/screencast-custom-vim-refactorings.html
19:29 < jrayhawk> large portions of the things you say cannot be realistically interpreted as a genuine expressions of opinions by a functional person, largely because you are careless of your understanding of and of your expression within a dialogue.
19:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-16-247.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: quit]
19:29 < QuantumG> random example?
19:29 < kanzure> i think the clacking sound is really helpful in that video
19:29 < kanzure> by helpful i mean funny
19:31 < jrayhawk> I'm also fairly suspicious that you have some intellectual construct that forces you to apply a binary value system to complex systems to which it is not suited.
19:32 < QuantumG> dude, if you're going to outright insult me, could you at least give some accounts?
19:32 < kanzure> haha where is the insult
19:33 < kanzure> jrayhawk is debugging what's going on, i don't think that's an insult
19:33 < jrayhawk> Actually, I've already hit the wrong side of the binary value system, so there's not much I can do here.
19:34 < QuantumG> well, ya see, it doesn't matter what you think is an insult.. I feel insulted and I think it is reasonable to ask for at least a few examples.
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19:41 < kanzure> so.. what's up with this character?
19:41 < kanzure> he liquifies every 16 hours?
19:41 < kanzure> what sorta huge fucken design flaw is that
19:42 < jrayhawk> is he supposed to be designed?
19:49 < kanzure> jrayhawk: ds9 was authored by someone right?
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19:50 < jrayhawk> I want to make some jibe about teaching the autistic about the concept of sleep, but I'm not sure how to make it work
19:51 < ybit> jrayhawk: is autistism linked to sleep disorders?
19:53 < kanzure> he is making fun of me because i forgot how to sleep in vietnam
19:53 < ybit> o.O
19:53 < jrayhawk> ooh, good angle
19:54 < jrayhawk> is autistism the disorder of "having too many people with autism in your life"? because if so, that probably does have some link to sleep disorders
19:55 < kanzure> autistism
19:55 < kanzure> hrm
19:55 < kanzure> >> User.find(58).zipcode
19:55 < kanzure> => nil
19:55 < kanzure> this makes me angry
19:57 < jrayhawk> zipcode really seems like it should be key rather than a method
19:57 < kanzure> ruby mixes things up like that
19:58 < CryptoQuick> OMAGAHWD I CANT BELIEVE HES DEAD
19:58  * CryptoQuick tears up
19:58  * ybit collects CryptoQuick's tears
19:58 < CryptoQuick> how can life even go on!?
19:59 < ybit> it doesn't, it ends tonight
19:59 < ybit> oh right, noise
19:59  * ybit idles
19:59 < CryptoQuick> there's just no more innovation without him
19:59 < ybit> i innovated on your mom last night
19:59 < ybit> right, idling
20:00 < CryptoQuick> he leaves apple, see what we get??? the 4S
20:00 < kanzure> CryptoQuick: iphone 5 will be released in a week by steve
20:00 < CryptoQuick> kanzure: I wish it was so, I really do :(
20:00 < kanzure> it will be from beyond the grave
20:00 < CryptoQuick> he's probably using his iphone 5 in heaven right now :')
20:00 < ybit> this is a good time to promote the SENS agenda
20:01 < CryptoQuick> ybit: you idle.
20:01  * ybit idle
20:01 < kanzure> spending all that money on just one liver transplant seems dull
20:01 < kanzure> what no cryonics? no billion dollar anti cancer initiative for 8 months?
20:01 < CryptoQuick> it was probably the most important liver anyone's ever had.
20:02 < CryptoQuick> he should've done more, dammit!
20:02  * ybit jeers from the sidelines
20:02 < kanzure> you are really bad at idling
20:03 < kanzure> you would fail at idlerpg
20:03 < ybit> :)
20:03 < CryptoQuick> heheheh
20:03 < CryptoQuick> it's okay, ybit, we love you, even though you wanted steve jobs to die more than anybody
20:05  * ybit eats a heath bar, drinks coffee, and reads a better textbook than his uni gives him
20:05 < CryptoQuick> heath bars are heathy for you~
20:07 < ybit> i'm going to really attempt idling
20:08 < jrayhawk> hey ybit how's it going
20:08 < CryptoQuick> well, it's okay now because our conversation died down
20:08 < ybit> there was a conversation?
20:08 < CryptoQuick> ybit: where do you go to uni?
20:08 < ybit> hi jrayhawk
20:08 < ybit> boontown college
20:09  * ybit wonders if CryptoQuick googled
20:09 < CryptoQuick> I did, but didn't find it
20:09 < ybit> :)
20:09 < CryptoQuick> :T
20:10 < kanzure> ybit goes to the university of "i used to be smarter than this"
20:10 < CryptoQuick> heh
20:10 < ybit> true dat, true dat
20:10 < ybit> ^lingo i picked up from the students
20:11 < CryptoQuick> I'm kinda in and out of school
20:11 < CryptoQuick> I don't really take it that seriously, never have
20:11 < JayDugger> Get used to that feeling.
20:11 < ybit> JayDugger: never!
20:12 < JayDugger> "I used to be smarter than this" helps keep me humble in the face of "Wow, my co-workers are really stupid."
20:12 < ybit> JayDugger: you do what?
20:12 < kanzure> he makes car payments for his girlfriend
20:13 < kanzure> and sometimes hangs out in irc.
20:14 < JayDugger> Fair enough, and time to commute. :)
20:14 < ybit> gl!
20:14 < ybit> call CryptoQuick if you need him
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20:14 < CryptoQuick> what why
20:14 < Starrk> Hello.
20:14 < CryptoQuick> Starrk: goodbye, we're mourning here
20:15 < kanzure> google.com has an interesting backlink to apple.. how's that for pagerank juice
20:15 < Starrk> Steve Jobs?
20:15  * CryptoQuick whails
20:16  * ybit misses his vpn
20:16  * ybit considers bumming from someone
20:17 < kanzure> don't you have a gnusha account
20:17 < ybit> i don't _think_ so...
20:18 < ybit> think after the servers went down at UT, my account went bb
20:21 < CryptoQuick> WHAT IS WIKIPEDIA COMING TO!?!?!?
20:21 < ybit> bye guys, hugs all around
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20:22 < kanzure> well that was weird
20:23 < CryptoQuick> sorry, too slow
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--- Log closed Thu Oct 06 00:00:42 2011