--- Log opened Wed Oct 26 00:00:13 2011
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07:02 < fenn> so if i take steroids i'll be able to lift 15% more weight than i could without them? wow.
07:04 < kanzure> are you being sarcastic?
07:05 < fenn> yes
07:05 < kanzure> has anyone done a study about running performance?
07:06 < fenn> i'm sure, why?
07:06 < kanzure> "i'll be able to escape a bear 15% faster"
07:06 < fenn> but i just need to be faster than you...
07:07 < fenn> it's too bad there's not actually an "all-drug olympics"
07:07 < kanzure> why not make it?
07:07 < kanzure> besides the various laws
07:07 < fenn> um, the laws are a big part
07:08 < fenn> personally, i think sports are a waste of time
07:08 < kanzure> BAH
07:08 < kanzure> bah to the laws, i mean
07:08 < fenn> first ever all-drug typing competition! held in monaco
07:09 < kanzure> 'anabolic steroid control act of 1990' damn, had to be my year..
07:09 < kanzure> "The Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004 - placed 32 additional steroids in Schedule III and expanded DEA’s regulatory and enforcement authority regarding steroids."
07:09 < fenn> you know you can still take testosterone in various forms
07:09 < kanzure> "The University of Michigan’s 2004 “Monitoring the Future” Study reported 3.4% of 12th graders having used steroids at least once."
07:09 < fenn> i have a bottle of tribulus right here
07:09 < kanzure> of course.. there's lots of medical uses too
07:10 < kanzure> "A Center for Disease Control and Prevention’s 2003 survey of U.S. high school students found that 6.1% reported having abused steroids, showing a 10-year increasing trend"
07:10 < fenn> i dont know why anyone would take an anabolic steroid besides testosterone
07:10 < kanzure> let's ask our friends at bodybuilding.com
07:11 < kanzure> what i really want to know is why transhumanists are really really against steroids in general
07:11 < fenn> negative publicity via association
07:11 < kanzure> maybe it's the same reason they hate anti-aging creams, but they both serve a purpose
07:12 < fenn> question of definitions: are bodybuilders transhumanists?
07:12 < kanzure> haha negative publicity.. yeah, big fucking deal- wait 'til stem cells OH WAIT
07:12 < kanzure> hmm
07:13 < fenn> i would say no because it's sort of a meme complex rather than a particular belief
07:13 < kanzure> maybe; there's definitely some sort of meta-control-feedback stuff going on?
07:13 < fenn> i.e. why is space exploration lumped in there with transhumanist ideas?
07:14 < kanzure> is it? it's just sorta assumed that any transhumanist megabrain would prefer to use the local star for energy right?
07:15 < kanzure> i'm being dense
07:15 < fenn> so, noopept is quite nice
07:15 < kanzure> i wonder if asking "is x transhumanist" a useful question
07:16 < kanzure> "but is up to 1000 times more potent than the prototypical racetam drug, piracetam."
07:16 < kanzure> "is a medication promoted and prescribed in Russia" damn russians!
07:16 < fenn> i can't say that it exploded my universe or anything, but it's definitely more noticeable than piracetam
07:16 < kanzure> you seem to be taking lots of alzheimer's drugs
07:16 < fenn> i mean it didn't have a noticeable "i feel smarter" effect
07:17 < fenn> i remember pulling some gross dishes out of a sink and not being annoyed at all
07:17 < kanzure> god damn it grandma is sending me steve jobs love letters
07:19 < kanzure> hey so about the site that i'm presumably making,
07:19 < kanzure> i can't figure out if it's a search engine or a social app or what
07:19 < kanzure> price comparison is very much like a search engine
07:19 < fenn> "i feel very coordinated and in control of my thoughts and movements. quiet, observant."
07:20 < fenn> i was thinking more or less like octopart
07:20 < kanzure> i think the regimen sharing feature is critical
07:21 < kanzure> so that would be like BOMs being added to octopart?
07:21 < fenn> parametric search, "nesting" or optimizing ordering from different suppliers
07:21 < fenn> BOM does what on octopart?
07:22 < kanzure> there are no BOMs on octopart
07:22 < fenn> i dont see what regimen sharing has to do with a search engine
07:22 < kanzure> exactly that's why i'm a wee bit confused
07:22 < kanzure> should it be a separate site?
07:22 < fenn> maybe you also want some kind of forum with integration to the search engine somehow
07:22 < kanzure> not really
07:22 < kanzure> NO TALKING
07:22 < fenn> hey it was my idea in the first place
07:23 < kanzure> maybe the "shopping cart" could be saved as a regimen
07:23 < fenn> so, it should have a nice restful API and then people can add whatever forums they like
07:24 < kanzure> well, i'd prefer an api/platform for integrating tests or experiments that people participate in
07:24 < fenn> automatic ordering is going to be hard
07:24 < kanzure> but that's very much in the realm of genomera and seems lame to me
07:24 < fenn> it's much easier to "fake" scraping for messed up sites than to fake automatic ordering
07:24 < kanzure> true
07:25 < kanzure> automatic ordering is down the pipeline i wouldn't worry about it right now
07:25 < fenn> i like the idea of performance testing of interventions
07:25 < fenn> genomera is
07:25 < kanzure> are you agreeing that genomera is lame
07:25 < fenn> genomera is lame because they do lame experiments that don't really answer any questions
07:25 < kanzure> BUTTER!
07:25 < kanzure> lots of it
07:25 < fenn> and they send me lots of email about crap i don't care about
07:26 < fenn> "so and so made a change, click here to see what they did!"
07:26 < fenn> wow they changed their status to experimenter! amazing~
07:27 < kanzure> what sort of parametric searching would make you happ[y?
07:27 < kanzure> happy?
07:27 < fenn> well, i'd like to search by price per dose, price per mg, price of minimum package size...
07:27 < kanzure> there's also the issue of generic drug/structure versus actual products
07:28 < fenn> then each supplement might have its own characteristics, like "cold pressed" might not apply to every supplement, only fatty acid stuffs
07:28 < fenn> yes, for example merck(?) has the patent on time released adderall
07:28 < kanzure> shire
07:28 < kanzure> but it went generic i thought?
07:28 < fenn> dunno
07:29 < kanzure> it did.. i have multiple adderall xr pills here by different manufacturers now
07:29 < kanzure> (and they all do fucking different things, argh)
07:29 < fenn> hm?
07:29 < fenn> they're not the same thing? or they claim to be the same but have different effects?
07:29 < kanzure> i think the release mechanisms are different between the manufacturers
07:30 < fenn> there's a lot of fluff out there, like "super bio-sorb coq10 with hydroxylated soybean oil!"
07:30 < fenn> so
07:31 < fenn> supposedly you can take 300mg of coq10 or 100mg with super bio-sorb and get the same effect
07:31 < fenn> but should we believe them?
07:31 < fenn> i kind of hate that technology has politics, but if i have a zillion choices nobody will want to use the service
07:32 < kanzure> i am thinking it should be a giant search engine and you list what you want, then it helps you narrow it down
07:32 < kanzure> *giant search box
07:32 < kanzure> and it returns results from products, regiments, or other results plus parameters to help you narrow down the search
07:32 < kanzure> then at the end it lists out where to buy the shit and possible experiments to join
07:32 < fenn> ok but do i multiply the value of super bio-sorb by 3? or not?
07:33 < fenn> can you compare apples and oranges?
07:33 < kanzure> what i suspect is happening is that people are finding local maxima for themselves of drugs that seem to work for them
07:33 < kanzure> this isn't necessarily an optimal cocktail of supplements
07:33 < fenn> of course
07:34 < fenn> there are also time-variant effects
07:34 < fenn> and state dependent effects
07:35 < fenn> i.e. DMAE may not help at all if you've already been taking it for a couple months
07:35 < fenn> but that doesn't mean it isn't worth taking at all
07:35 < kanzure> hm, it would be nice to get a history of supplement use too
07:36 < fenn> i think what you're going after is going to be a more hands-on project
07:36 < fenn> i was going to do it as part of cyborg camp
07:36 < kanzure> what is "more hands-on"?
07:36 < fenn> basically as part of the borg you sign your body away and each person does their own experiment and is tracked rigorously in all aspects of life
07:37 < fenn> wearable biosensors and computer integration, random cognitive performance testing and mood metrics
07:38 < kanzure> i'm not sure if it's possible or useful to do combinatorial testing across all drugs for a single person across all timing possibilities
07:38 < fenn> no, you have to do singular value decomposition
07:38 < fenn> it's sort of like measuring the length of a table
07:38 < fenn> hm, bad analogy
07:39 < fenn> it's sort of like measuring the position of a proton
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07:40 < fenn> by bouncing a photon off it, you alter the velocity vector of the proton
07:40 < kanzure> humn=proton?
07:40 < kanzure> human
07:41 < fenn> but with enough samples you can derive some laws about how protons and photons interact
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07:41 < fenn> that's all we're trying to do
07:41 < kanzure> maybe it would be useful to focus specifically on drugs that make up for differences in genotypes/snps?
07:41 < fenn> then once you have all your expected effects measured, you just do monte carlo optimization or whatever
07:42 < kanzure> ok
07:42 < fenn> why focus on the differences when you can focus on the similarities?
07:42 < fenn> the goal is to be absolutely better, not relatively better
07:43 < fenn> people have been fighting for too long already
07:49 < kanzure> how is that people don't understand how bad patents are? it's called "royalties" for a reason!
07:49 < kanzure> bleh
07:50 < kanzure> ooh https://github.com/danchoi/fredit
07:52 < kanzure> http://blog.wekeroad.com/2011/10/25/the-hubble-blew-my-mind
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08:45 < kanzure> http://breakoutlabs.org/ is up finally
08:45 < kanzure> it's peter thiel's.. thing.. for science.. things
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08:52 < ory_web> hi
08:52 < ory_web> i have problem whith ideneb
08:53 < ory_web> :(
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09:19 < kanzure> upverter.com looks broken
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10:14 < kanzure> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/335541/title/Gene_makes_some_pilots_get_rusty_faster
10:14 < kanzure> the gene is bdnf
10:19 < eudoxia> is peter thiel an inexhaustible source of monies for transhumanism?
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10:46 < archels> kanzure: mmm, neurogenesis-related?
10:48 < kanzure> haven't checked
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11:10 < kanzure> "One situation where I do not need help, let alone supervision, is in crossing streets.  I grew up in the middle of the world's biggest city, full of cars, and I have crossed streets without assistance even in the chaotic traffic of Bangalore and Delhi.  Please just leave me alone when I cross streets."
11:11 < kanzure> poor stallman
11:43 < archels> wat
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12:33 < yottabit> hrm
12:33 < yottabit> why is gnusha.org inaccesible but ybit is still online?
12:33 < yottabit> jrayhawk!
12:33 < yottabit> or JayDugger!
12:33 < yottabit> i forget which one of the J's it was that created an account for me :)
12:34 < kanzure> jrayhawk
12:34 < kanzure> diyhpl.us is the same server fyi
12:34 < kanzure> or bryan.svcs.pdx.edu or something
12:34  * yottabit was about to grep the logs, but that works
13:02 < jrayhawk> the nameservers for gnusha appear to be having issues
13:02 < kanzure> oh right i never taught myself proper dns management
13:02 < kanzure> i guess that's sorta important huh
13:07 < jrayhawk> would you like me to provide a bind setup on gnusha.org and somewhere else for you to play with
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13:13 < kanzure> jrayhawk: that would be fine
13:14 < kanzure> also if you could beat me over the head with bind documentation that would help too
13:15 < jrayhawk> eh, not really a worthwhile plan, there. half the stuff bind claims to have support for is a lie.
13:15 < jrayhawk> there's only a few workflows you really want to worry about
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13:48 < kanzure> infomorph==SDr?
13:59 < SDr> infomorph ⊂ SDr
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14:00  * SDr sometimes acts as an instrument for minority reports ^^
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17:24 < kanzure> http://royalsociety.org/news/Royal-Society-journal-archive-made-permanently-free-to-access/
17:24 -!- diane is now known as klafka
17:24 < kanzure> discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3158061
17:24 < klafka> good
17:25 < klafka> now if only jstor followed
17:28 < yottabit> who's the guy wanting to do OSE stuff in arizona again, and when is gnusha coming back online?
17:33 < jrayhawk> The server itself is not offline; you can ssh to 131.252.130.248
17:33 < jrayhawk> I suspect gkg.net is experiencing a DoS or something.
18:03 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
18:03 < jrayhawk> for future reference, if you aren't using HashKnownHosts, you can look up the addresses of servers you've previously sshed to in .ssh/known_hosts
18:07 < JayDugger> fenn, kanzure: space exploration gets "lumped in" with transhumanist ideas because of Dandrige Cole's work in the early 1960s for General Electric.
18:13 < JayDugger> Supposedly he'd read Ettinger's The Prospect of Immortality, but his family buried him after a fatal heart attack at 44.
18:16 < JayDugger> Cole marks the earliest overlap I know about, but others might predate even him.
18:18 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i actually use freedns.afraid.something
18:19 < jrayhawk> for heybryan, yeah
18:19 < jrayhawk> note that that one is actually working
18:19 < jrayhawk> for i in diyhpl.us gnusha.org; do whois $i | grep -i 'Name Server'; done
18:21 < JayDugger> Thanks for the tip about HashKnownHosts, jrayhawk.
18:22 < jrayhawk> I really wish known_hosts were indexed by key :(
18:27 < kanzure> BAH whatever
18:28 < JayDugger> Evocative, but vague.
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19:07 < JayDugger> Good night, everyone.
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20:25 < kanzure> "We once had a guy do PCP in the bathroom during a tattoo break. He came out and resumed getting tattooed,
20:25 < kanzure> and minutes later, was screaming at the top of his lungs about the incredible power in his body. He stood up and carried a 400 lb. barber's chair out the front door, put it in traffic, disrobed and sat in it.
20:25 < yottabit> HashKnownHosts, thanks jrayhawk
20:25 < kanzure> He sat there, screaming in traffic, nude in a barber chair, until the police arrived."
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20:49 < jrayhawk> haha
20:50 < kanzure> what's worse is that i accidentally pasted that to a client of mine
20:50 < kanzure> instead of the instructions for logging into his admin panel
20:50 < kanzure> fuck
20:50 < kanzure> but it was only the last 50%
20:52 < jrayhawk> professionalism
20:55 < kanzure> yup
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--- Log closed Thu Oct 27 00:00:14 2011