--- Log opened Sat Jan 28 00:00:05 2012
--- Day changed Sat Jan 28 2012
00:00 < Zach342342343294> according to wikipedia they do
00:00 < yashgaroth> aww man I wanted a future without lawyers
00:00 < Stee|> well
00:00 < Stee|> more like I want to do business consulting :P
00:00 < yashgaroth> heh, fair enough
00:01 < Stee|> also someone has to talk to the government
00:01 < Stee|> and be the new security consulting firm that actually has ties in the movement
00:01 < Stee|> *straightens tie*
00:01 < yashgaroth> don't worry zach, the U.S. takes a very liberal approach to investing
00:01 < yashgaroth> ah, so now we're in security eh?
00:02 < Stee|> all of the above
00:02 < Stee|> basically, like Booz
00:02 < Zach342342343294> well thats cool then good luck
00:03 < yashgaroth> first I've heard of Booz, but they do look enviable
00:03 < Zach342342343294> anything that will get some transhumanist focused companies
00:04 < Stee|> Booz is interesting
00:04 < Stee|> I almost got a job there as a modeling/simulation wargame analyst
00:05 < yashgaroth> man that sounds like a baller job
00:05 < Stee|> I don't know if I can talk about the job I might be getting :V
00:06 < Stee|> I should ask my potential future boss to see what's, uh, legal to talk about
00:06 < yashgaroth> we talking NDA or top secret?
00:06 < Stee|> a mix
00:06 < Stee|> For Official Use Only
00:07 < yashgaroth> ah
00:07 < yashgaroth> well, good luck in any case
00:08 < Stee|> thanks
00:08 < Stee|> hoping to funnel money to h+ stuff, as long as I get a return
00:08 < yashgaroth> if you take payment in cash, no problem
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00:09 < Stee|> it also can't get my clearances revoked :P
00:09 < yashgaroth> if the government knows about it, you're fucked anyway
00:10 < yashgaroth> but I'll see what I can do
00:12 < yashgaroth> the idea of professionals who are also angel investors is quite appealing, I wonder if it would work with biologists as well
00:12 < yashgaroth> they're sometimes flush with cash from a big buyout, and they do like to gamble, so it's a perfect combination
00:15 < yashgaroth> anyway, that's enough for me for tonight, I'll be back tomorrow
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06:32 < rkos> http://www.sallyglean.org/reynolds/priestcy.pdf
06:39 <@kanzure> deliquentme: [x, y) is talking about inclusiveness of the interval
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07:58 < delinquentme> klafka, ratios of bio to stats classes
08:04 <@kanzure> delinquentme: [x, y) is interval stuff
08:04 <@kanzure> like "include/exclude the ends"
08:04 <@kanzure> i just can't ever remember which one is which :)
08:05 < eudoxia> [ is include
08:05 <@kanzure> i think [ is inclusive, ( is exclusive
08:05 < delinquentme> yeah
08:05 <@kanzure> alright good enough for me
08:05 < delinquentme> thanks :D
08:05 <@kanzure> 2/2 douchebags agree!
08:05 < eudoxia> =)
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09:00 < JayDugger> Yeah, remember--math, like democracy, depends on your vote for a correct answer. :)
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10:12 < delinquentme> klafka, what happened w the PHD program? burn out?
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10:46 < klafka> delinquentme burn out + sort of backed into something i ddn't want to do
10:46 < klafka> i mean related to burn out but slightly diffferent
10:47 < delinquentme> was it a PI being an asshole?
10:47 < klafka> he wasn't strictly being an asshole
10:48 < klafka> i was just not meeting his expectations
10:48 < delinquentme> so the PI was pushing you to work on something you wern't interested in?
10:51 <@kanzure> i think the point is, slave labor
10:53 < uniqanomaly__> hey, someone got to do PI's research :>
10:53 <@kanzure> undergrads
10:54 <@kanzure> that's what undergrads are for
10:54 < uniqanomaly__> k
10:59 < klafka> actually uniqanomaly__  i was not even doing my PI's research
10:59 < klafka> delinquentme basically my grad program was really small, my original PI and I were doing bioinformatics research trying to apply ML to it
10:59 < klafka> however, that PI didn't erally know anything about ML
11:00 < klafka> so as I started talking to an ML PI we started doing more stuff
11:00 < klafka> and eventually i switched to the ML PI
11:00 < klafka> however, they were interested mainly in ML
11:00 < klafka> and so I kept getting pushed deeper into doing pure ML research
11:00 < delinquentme> what university?
11:00 < klafka> RIT
11:00 < klafka> this isn't a reflection on them per se
11:01 < klafka> it's a reflection on how _I_ am not good at real analysis
11:01 < klafka> I, in my mind, was just not good enough at the fundamental math required to understand where my research was going
11:01 < delinquentme> klafka, arent those two things essentially *Married* ??
11:01 < klafka> what?
11:02 < delinquentme> i guess I fail to see how one can be a bioinformaticist and NOT be good at ML .. w regards to your PI
11:02 < klafka> delinquentme umm bioinformatics is a whole range of shit
11:02 <@kanzure> it's not impossible to believe that an advisor has a point where he can't help you any more
11:02 < klafka> actually my original PI had a background in straight biology and then got into IT, at the same time htey were also moving into HCI w/ their research
11:02 < delinquentme> klafka, can I see what you guys were working on?
11:03 < klafka> um yeah
11:03 <@kanzure> i've had many advisors tell me straight up, "i don't know what to tell you to do next, but here's the name of another prof.."
11:04 < delinquentme> klafka, whats your highest math?
11:04 < klafka> um i don't know what you mean by that
11:04 < klafka> I have a degree in applied mathematics ?
11:04 <@kanzure> klafka: delinquentme has been looking for suggestions for ml/bioinformatics projects
11:05 <@kanzure> i suggested a bunch of standard phylogeneticy-homologyie stuff
11:06 < delinquentme> O_o thats awesome
11:06 < delinquentme> Im failing to understand how the issue here was with the lack of math
11:07 < delinquentme> specifically w real analysis
11:08 < klafka> because math is fucking hard
11:08 < klafka> umm let me be more specific
11:09 < klafka> so what i was getting into was sort of synthesizing a couple things, how markov chains work deeply enough to understand how to optimize ensemble mcmc methods
11:10 < klafka> you can do this typically by considering the actions of the whole chain in the limit
11:10 < delinquentme> yeah math is pretty hard
11:10 < klafka> i mean it's not that i didn't understand it to a degree
11:10 < klafka> but i didn't _understand_ it enough to build on it
11:10 < klafka> like, i have a degree in math that doesn't mean i am able to do anything in it, real analysis was always my weakest area actually
11:10 < delinquentme> ohh HMM montecarlos
11:12 < delinquentme> http://radfordneal.wordpress.com/2011/01/01/ensemble-mcmc/
11:13 < klafka> um what
11:13 < klafka> not hidden markov models
11:13 < klafka> HMMs use Markov chains
11:13 < klafka> but they are basically completely different
11:14 <@kanzure> klafka: have you had your first day?
11:14 < klafka> of?
11:14 <@kanzure> badgebadgers
11:14 < klafka> oh lol
11:14 < klafka> i've just finished my 3rd week
11:14 < klafka> what do you thnki  was doing in california all this time
11:14 <@kanzure> getting high?
11:15 < klafka> LOL really?
11:16 < uniqanomaly__> haha
11:16 < klafka> dude this has happened for 3rd week in a row http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35tvwk/
11:16 < delinquentme> klafka, so markov chains are state probabilities
11:16 < klafka> no
11:16 < delinquentme> no?
11:16 <@kanzure> klafka: i was kidding :3
11:17 < klafka> Markov chains are a structure that when applied to a distribution can produce points representative of that distribution
11:17 < klafka> Markov chain transition matrices have state transition probabilities
11:17 < klafka> also
11:17 < klafka> how does your email start again delinquentme
11:17 < klafka> ?
11:17 < delinquentme> carlcrott@gmail.com
11:18 < delinquentme> klafka, so you're trying to get information about a distribution for what ends
11:18 < klafka> i just sent you a rough draft of the paper
11:18 < delinquentme> information about a distribution *FROM A SUBSET* which you've MCed for what ends
11:19 < klafka> um so one of the big things you want to do in ML is estimate expectations
11:19 < klafka> because you cannot compute them directly
11:19 < klafka> this is erally applicable when you want to say compute teh likelihood opr the derivative of the likelihood of a probability
11:19 < klafka> you want to do that because this is how you can optimize your likelihood via gradient descent
11:20 < klafka> you can estimate expectations in this way via MCMC
11:20 -!- augur is now known as Robbespierre
11:20 < klafka> by averaging basically points from the distribution
11:20 -!- Robbespierre is now known as augur
11:20 < klafka> as the # of points -> infinity the estimate of the expectation -> the expectation
11:21 < klafka> maan soo shit
11:21 < klafka> i think that when my advisor rightly decoupled all of our folders
11:21 < klafka> i lost a bunch of shit
11:21 < klafka> that sucks
11:22 < delinquentme> no paper?
11:22 < klafka> i just sent a draft to you
11:22 < klafka> it's not my final though
11:22 <@kanzure> klafka: always always make backups prior to shit going down
11:22 <@kanzure> i used to make a backup before each meeting -_-
11:23 < klafka> honestly kanzure i was not thinking well when i quit
11:23 < klafka> i totally had a bit of a nervous breakdown
11:24 < klafka> i mean the way that i quit was 'stopped showing up to school or responding to anyone's attempts to communicate'
11:26 < delinquentme> so as the # of points -> infinity the estimate of the expectation -> the expectation
11:27 < delinquentme> this reminds me of calc shit
11:27 < klafka> yes
11:27 < delinquentme> ooc what did you say to the new job
11:27 < klafka> calculus is basically real analysis without all the stuff
11:27 < delinquentme> "basically I want something easy"
11:28 < klafka> delinquentme oh you meanmy current job?
11:28 < delinquentme> without all the stuff?
11:28 < delinquentme> ya
11:28 < klafka> like calculus is basically just the mechanical computational side of real analysis
11:29 < klafka> real analysis proves the basis of how calculus works
11:29 < delinquentme> real analysis tutorials?
11:29 < klafka> ugggh
11:31 < klafka> i'm not sure if there are tutorials so much
11:31 < klafka> i mean there is reference material
11:31 < klafka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_analysis
11:31 < klafka> honestly
11:32 < klafka> read it over and take a look at their external links
11:32 < klafka> i used baby rudin a lot o learn it
11:34 < delinquentme> baby rudin O_o
11:36 < klafka> http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Mathematical-Analysis-Third-Walter/dp/007054235X
11:44 < klafka> did you end up getting the paper i sent you?
11:46 < klafka> ah i found a more fnished one but i have to compile it to pdf
11:46 < klafka> bleh
11:53 < uniqanomaly__> guys, what do you think about crowdsourced testing site, in wiki-like way people create tests relating to available learning materials, others solve those tests and get badges or something like that
11:53 < uniqanomaly__> also knowledge dependency tree like technology tree in games
11:54 < uniqanomaly__> ultimate separation of learning and testing
11:54 <@kanzure> knowledge dependency trees were being done by okfn
11:54 <@kanzure> testing is lame let's just sacrifice them and scan in their brains to see the changes
11:56 < uniqanomaly__> nah theres no point in testing if you could just learn it matrx-style
12:02 < uniqanomaly__> noone feels butterfiles in their belly about teh idea?
12:03 < uniqanomaly__> butterflies*
12:04 < uniqanomaly__> guys, what do you think about crowdsourced testing site, in wiki-like way people create tests relating to available learning materials, others solve those tests and get badges or something like that
12:04 < uniqanomaly__> fck
12:04 < uniqanomaly__> sry ;p
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15:57 < delinquentme> Zach342342343294, hows your mother?
15:58 < Zach342342343294> amazing
15:58 < Zach342342343294> yours?
16:00 < Zach342342343294> is hplus affilitated with lifeboat foundation?
16:01 < Zach342342343294> or ieet?
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16:02 < Zach342342343294> i guess it doesn't matter tbh
16:04 < eudoxia> the magazine?
16:04 < eudoxia> I'm assuming that's what you mean but you can never be sure
16:05 < Zach342342343294> it seems like its more an organization
16:05 < Zach342342343294> im just browsing the website
16:06 < Zach342342343294> its kind of hard to tell how well funded some of the transhumanist/singularity/etc orgs are
16:06 < eudoxia> I remember kanzure said something about
16:06 < eudoxia> "no more than 15k" in their last fundraiser
16:07 < eudoxia> or maybe it was "no more than 15k" in any one
16:07 < eudoxia> re: h+
16:07 < Zach342342343294> that makes sense
16:07 < eudoxia> SIAI gets more
16:08 < Zach342342343294> any idea about the SENS one?
16:08 < Zach342342343294> methusaleh foundation i think it is called
16:10 < Zach342342343294> looks like sens foundation and SIAI are the main ones doing research
16:10 < eudoxia> not sure about SENS
16:10 < delinquentme> Zach342342343294, making cookies
16:10 < eudoxia> but I just checked and oh my does SIAI have money
16:10 < delinquentme> i hope!
16:10 < delinquentme> SIAI?
16:11 < Zach342342343294> delinquentme: do you like crunchy or soft cookies?
16:11 < delinquentme> cookie dough
16:11 < delinquentme> :D
16:11 < delinquentme> salmonella = zingy
16:11 < eudoxia> what research does SIAI actually do?
16:11 < Zach342342343294> the best type of ella
16:11 < delinquentme> ella
16:11 < delinquentme> eh eh!
16:11  * delinquentme lolz
16:11 < jrayhawk> They do research on existential risk.
16:12 < Zach342342343294> eudoxia: I think mostly yudkowsky does research with a few other people on mathy stuff like decision theory
16:12 < jrayhawk> And "AI friendliness"
16:12 < Zach342342343294> and a lot of general this is how to be rational stuff as well
16:13 < Zach342342343294> i think the idea is if someone is rational enough they will inevitably see that making a friendly ai is the most important thing in the world
16:13 < Zach342342343294> damn delinquentme now i'm going to be craving cookies
16:13 < Zach342342343294> and i was trying to get in shape
16:15 < Zach342342343294> if i die from obesity related causes its your fault
16:15 < delinquentme> Zach342342343294, see I see living longer as the only rational thing to do
16:15 < delinquentme> whereas others say "getting to space"
16:16 < delinquentme> i ask WHY
16:16 < eudoxia> oh god it's so annoying
16:16 < delinquentme> bc if we live longer .. well get there anyways
16:16 < eudoxia> it's like the people who keep saying "GUYS GUYS DROP EVERYTHING I JUST REALIZE AN ASTEROID IS GOING TO KILL US ALL SOMEDAY"
16:16 < eudoxia> "BETTER GET TO SPACE NOW"
16:16 < eudoxia> "WHY CAN'T YOU SEE WHAT I SEEEEEEEEE"
16:16 < Zach342342343294> i agree delinquentme
16:17 < Zach342342343294> obviously a long term goal would be get highly separated groups on several star systems with no contact with eachother
16:17 < eudoxia> well obviously
16:17 < Zach342342343294> assuming that there is no 'easy' way to go faster than light
16:17 < eudoxia> it was just to illustrate a point, space exploration is cool too
16:18 < Zach342342343294> but that is so long off
16:18 < delinquentme> end game I want humanity crusing through space on a massive space ship hitting up planets for resources
16:18 < eudoxia> but I don't understand the fixation with space
16:18 < delinquentme> mobility is a good thing
16:18 < eudoxia> I mean, I have this friend who works for Dennis Chamberland
16:18 < Zach342342343294> i think it is left over cold war rah rah rahism
16:18 < delinquentme> fuck the deep chill
16:18 < eudoxia> and he has convinced me that undersea exploration gets the job done (resources + survival of mankind) just as well as space exploration
16:19 < eudoxia> less cost, easily translatable technology
16:19 < eudoxia> except for the whole positive/negative pressure things being swapped but whatever
16:19 < Zach342342343294> good point i am reading a bit about him now
16:20 < eudoxia> one thing he pointed out was that gamma ray bursts or other sources of radiation would completely fry a colony in space
16:20 < eudoxia> but a few kilometers of water is a perfect radiation shield
16:21 < Zach342342343294> eudoxia: i have never thought of that before
16:21 < Zach342342343294> very good points
16:22 < delinquentme> OH!
16:23 < Zach342342343294> well i am going to make dinner
16:23 < delinquentme> TIL humans suspended in fluid sacks can hold up to acceleration forces better than regular jump suits
16:23 < Zach342342343294> and regret ever advocating for space exploration
16:23 < delinquentme> http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/p0byi/would_it_be_possible_to_survive_an_otherwise/
16:23 < eudoxia> the calculation of how many kilometers of water would be necessary to shield against the explosion of WR 104 is left as an excercise to the reader
16:50 <@kanzure> to the dead reader.
16:50 <@kanzure> i don't really trust the work of ieet
16:50 <@kanzure> it's more of a propaganda front for james hughes' book ("citizen cyborg")
16:51 < Urchin> I thought it was the other way around
16:51 <@kanzure> lifeboat foundation is just a giant "board of advisors" signing their name to eric's org.. they have a mailing list, so they are on par with humanityplus.org
16:51 <@kanzure> Zach342342343294: sens recently had a $500k donation
16:51 <@kanzure> siai is not doing the same caliber research as sens, by a long shot..
16:52 <@kanzure> sens' research is much more, intense imho
16:52 <@kanzure> eudoxia: yeah, siai has enough money to even have a scandal under the hood already
16:53 <@kanzure> eudoxia: hey they are right about going to space :) it's bad to have us all on one planet at the same time
16:53 < eudoxia> well you're bound to have a scandal if you manage to turn millions in donations into nothing but empty verbiage
16:53 < eudoxia> in the words of Greg Egan
16:58 <@kanzure> eudoxia: pm
16:58 < eudoxia> space is cool too, but the cost is too high to keep most 5-year term politicians interested and there is only a market for LEO/GEO satellites
16:59 <@kanzure> you don't see spacex caring about politicians much
16:59 < eudoxia> quantumg had a strangely convincing rant about SpaceX some time ago
16:59 < eudoxia> something about NASA money being like heroin
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17:21 < delinquentme> TALKING IN #MATH ZOMG #DOWNT3HRABBITHOLE
17:23 <@kanzure> #not-math is also an ok math place
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17:43 <@kanzure> hi aristarchus
17:43 < aristarchus> hi!
18:00 < Stee|> got invited to be a permanent member of Diamandis' Abundance Index team
18:00 < Stee|> woo
18:03 < eudoxia> I think you explained that to me once
18:03 < eudoxia> it's like some numerical value or something
18:03 < eudoxia> I think
18:04 < Zach342342343294> congrats stee|
18:04 < eudoxia> "The Abundance Index is an aggregate index we are proposing to help measure the world’s progress toward abundance in essential human needs such as water, energy, food, education, healthcare, freedom. The goal is to create an index that aggregates existing data being actively maintained by reputable organizations [...]"
18:04 < eudoxia> I was sort of right
18:07 < Zach342342343294> abundance means post-scarcity i guess?
18:07 < Zach342342343294> like star trek?
18:07 < Stee|> no
18:08 < Stee|> it's tracking how much people have access to these things
18:08 < Stee|> (with that as a goal, yes)
18:08 < Stee|> could you get rid of some numbers out of your name >_>
18:09 -!- Zach342342343294 is now known as zach342
18:10 < Stee|> awesome
18:13 < zach342> any idea when the abundance index is going to 'launch'?
18:14 < aristarchus> abundance index?
18:15 < aristarchus> doh
18:15 < Stee|> end of feb
18:15  * aristarchus looks at chat log
18:15 < zach342> cool good luck with it
18:16 < Stee|> thanks
18:33 < flazmot> http://arbornet.org/~flamoot/telepathic-critterdrug.html artificial consciousness evolver for linux and windows
18:39 <@kanzure> flazmot: stop it
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18:40 <@kanzure> Stee|: can you get me in on that
18:40 < Stee|> abundance index?
18:41 <@kanzure> diamandis' group
18:41 <@kanzure> yes
18:41 < Stee|> I'll poke the lady in charge now and point you and your credentials out
18:41 < Stee|> there's like 8 topics
18:41 <@kanzure> thanks
18:41 <@kanzure> yeah, well.
18:42 < Stee|> ugh, all I'm trying to find is the surface energy of steel-air interface
18:42 < Stee|> why is this so hard
18:42 <@kanzure> this stuff is usually in a CAS book in some random library
18:42 -!- flazmot [~root@69-196-167-37.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:42 <@kanzure> "it can't be online because that will destroy our profits!"
18:42 < flazmot> i apologize for doing that kanzure
18:42 <@kanzure> flazmot: why are you in here anyway
18:42 < Stee|> seriously though, steel-air?
18:42 < Stee|> steel-air should be easy to find
18:42 <@kanzure> matweb?
18:45 <@kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_psychology
18:45 <@kanzure> "Folk psychology (also known as common sense psychology, naïve psychology or vernacular psychology) is the set of assumptions, constructs, and convictions that makes up the everyday language in which people discuss human psychology. Folk psychology embraces everyday concepts like “beliefs”, "desires”, “fear”, and “hope"."
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18:45 <@kanzure> i wish consciousness, decisions, and intelligence would be added to that list
18:46 < Stee|> have you worked at all with diamandis at all?
18:46 <@kanzure> if "desire" is a valid term, then why isn't "decision" blegh
18:46 <@kanzure> Stee|: not directly
18:46 < Stee|> hmmm
18:46 <@kanzure> Stee|: i've done some work with siai, and people who talk at singularityu
18:46 <@kanzure> i guess i hung out at halcyon for a bit, but he wouldn't care
18:46 < Stee|> I dropped the 'know other people' line
18:46 < Stee|> see what happens
18:46 <@kanzure> i think the most pertinent bullshit line item is director of R&D from humanity+
18:47 < Stee|> eh, this isn't diamandis himself
18:47 < Stee|> it's someone who's running it
18:47 < Stee|> so I can't be sure that will work
18:47 < Stee|> 'talented and interested' is vague but hooking
18:47 <@kanzure> um
18:47 <@kanzure> yeah that's a bit vague considering all the stuff going down
18:48 <@kanzure> but thanks. maybe they will follow up.
18:49 <@kanzure> Stee|: thecureisnow is putting me on a board of advisors, you want in?
18:50 < Stee|> Sure
18:50 < Stee|> What do I need to do
18:51 <@kanzure> shoot me a short <5 sentence email with your research specialization, lab/advisor/any papers
18:51 <@kanzure> um, and something about what level of contribution you'd be willing to provide
18:52 < Stee|> $ wise? Research wise?
18:52 <@kanzure> which, btw, can be anything.. it's not a signed/contracted thing so you could say "five phone calls a year"
18:52 <@kanzure> research wise could be cool, but nope..
18:53 < Stee|> what was your email again?
18:53 <@kanzure> it's really old school. "board of advisors" means "we won't bug you every week"
18:53 <@kanzure> kanzure@gmail.com
18:54 < Stee|> I'm thinking of starting a charity when I start working, actually.
18:54 < Stee|> one with a more concrete goal
18:54 <@kanzure> charities are broken
18:55 <@kanzure> "please give us money" is no way to support yourself
18:55 < Stee|> uh, not as a lifestyle
18:55 < Stee|> as a side thing
18:55 <@kanzure> btw, i haven't replaced humanity+ primarily because i have no donations that need the tax credit
18:55 < Stee|> I want to raise money to pay for pulse ilimb/similar things for amputees
18:55 <@kanzure> so why would you do one?
18:55 <@kanzure> ok, why does that need to be non-profit
18:56 < Stee|> tax writeoffs
18:56 < Stee|> are a good way to convince people to donate
18:56 <@kanzure> ok. so are you going for the begging approach, or do you have someone lined up who needs to dump cash on you
18:57 < Stee|> Raise money through my professional contacts, probably. Even if it only helps one more person a year, it would be worth it.
18:57 < Stee|> Even lowly engineers making 80k a year like tax writeoffs sometimes.
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18:57 <@kanzure> sure
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19:01 < Stee|> ugh fuck
19:01 < Stee|> I hate three phase contact points
19:02 <@kanzure> huh i thought you said materials, not mechanical
19:02 <@kanzure> close enough i guess
19:03 <@kanzure> wait..
19:03 <@kanzure> your advisor is mishra?
19:03 < Stee|> yes >_>
19:04 < flazmot> i read contact points as contact aids
19:04 < flazmot> and was briefly frightened
19:04 <@kanzure> https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/bitstream/handle/2142/24046/Pikul_James.pdf?sequence=1
19:04 <@kanzure> Stee|: so were you around when we were talking about a microflluidic dna synthesizer
19:04 < Stee|> nope
19:04 <@kanzure> i'm considering a droplet system
19:05 <@kanzure> and maybe a picoliter array for photomasked dna synthesis
19:05 < Stee|> yeah, I've read like 90% of the work that lab produced lol
19:05 < Stee|> all the EHD stuff
19:05 < flazmot> biopunk
19:05 <@kanzure> Stee|: can you read this stuff and let me know what you think? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/synthesis/
19:05 <@kanzure> especially http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/synthesis/Synthesis%20-%20Microfluidic%20PicoArray%20synthesis%20of%20oligodeoxynucleotides%20and%20simultaneous%20assembling%20of%20multiple%20DNA%20sequences%20(10%20kb).pdf
19:05 < Stee|> I don't do bio dude
19:05 < Stee|> seriously
19:06 < Stee|> I know jack shit about it
19:06 < Stee|> and the vast majority of my microfluidics is jet impact
19:06 <@kanzure> don't worry about the bio part
19:06 < Stee|> not in channel
19:06 <@kanzure> ah. well all my work with microfluidics has been channel flow and droplet
19:06 <@kanzure> one-cell-per-droplet, etc.
19:07 < Stee|> I mean, I can tell you a bit about vortex flows
19:07 < Stee|> but that's about it
19:07 <@kanzure> have you patterned anything into pdms/su8
19:08 < Stee|> we don't do patterning
19:08 <@kanzure> bah
19:08 <@kanzure> do you know anyone who you can abduct
19:08 < Stee|> seriously
19:08 < Stee|> I don't think RPI does much in the way of patterning
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19:10 <@kanzure> Stee|: i'd like to get someone in here who actually has experience making microfluidic devices
19:10 <@kanzure> especially if that someone has made a lot that have failed
19:11 < Stee|> If I find anyone I'll tell you
19:11 < Stee|> moving to DC soon so
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19:56 < Stee|> method 1 validated!
19:56 < Stee|> (fuck contact angles)
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20:46 < delinquentme> Stee|, whut?
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21:02 < delinquentme> kanzure, extistentialing
21:02 < delinquentme> kanz do you know who is currently working on blood projects
21:02 <@kanzure> i have no idea what you just said
21:02 < delinquentme> i mean like endless supplies of type o negative blood
21:03 <@kanzure> blood projects! yes, i know at least one person doing stem cell/blood diy projects
21:03 <@kanzure> haven't seen that yet
21:04 <@kanzure> i think their current method is called "a blood drive"
21:04 <@kanzure> it's pretty lame
21:04 < delinquentme> loolol
21:04 < yashgaroth> in the far future, we will have 'pay people who aren't junkies to give blood'
21:04 < delinquentme> i think i commented on this to someone
21:04 < delinquentme> said Its kind of primitive and dirty
21:04 < delinquentme> lets suck from someone else and inject it into another
21:04 < delinquentme> uhhhh
21:04 < delinquentme> that just *SOUNDS* bad
21:04 <@kanzure> nobody will understand delinquentme
21:05 < delinquentme> kanzure, who are the blood projects
21:05 < Stee|> Hmmm
21:05 <@kanzure> the longevity guys
21:05 < Stee|> it's interesting to see who's interested and who's not in vatgrown meat
21:05 <@kanzure> i don't know, opencures (except not them, since they are just writing protocols)
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21:06 <@kanzure> Stee|: i don't think anyone has demonstrated stem cell -> muscle/meat cells
21:06 < yashgaroth> they have, the problem is getting a vasculature to support it
21:06 <@kanzure> no that's not a problem really
21:07 <@kanzure> have you seen the scaffolds?
21:07 < yashgaroth> I have not
21:07 <@kanzure> iirc some of them have a way to pump blood through the scaffolds someone setup
21:08 <@kanzure> Stee|: when jmil shows up in here again, you should pester him about this
21:08 <@kanzure> he will have some specific stuff to show you
21:09 < delinquentme> kanzure, i still need moar gud animeeee
21:09 < delinquentme> fenn,
21:09 < delinquentme> DE DONDE ERAS TU!?
21:09 < delinquentme> NICE serial experiments lane is finished
21:10 <@kanzure> delinquentme: i liked her setup
21:11 <@kanzure> superkuh: superkuh.com is down
21:11 <@kanzure> this wasn't it.. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b8/Lain_hacker_small.jpg/250px-Lain_hacker_small.jpg
21:14 < delinquentme> kanzure, whos her?
21:14 < delinquentme> Ohhhh!
21:14 < delinquentme> hah
21:14 < delinquentme> truth
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21:14 < delinquentme> derp :D
21:15 < uniqanomaly> hmm
21:16 < uniqanomaly> delinquentme: draining babies for blood on international waters
21:16 < uniqanomaly> another idea
21:16 < uniqanomaly> :<
21:16 < yashgaroth> ah, so that's how they plan to fund seasteading
21:17 < delinquentme> lolol
21:17 < delinquentme> Approved an authorized blood substitute in Mexico in 2005
21:17 < delinquentme> ^^^^
21:17 < Stee|> heh
21:17 < Stee|> did any of you guys see the seasteading thread on SA?
21:17 <@kanzure> nope
21:18 < Stee|> SA is very left leaning in a lot of ways
21:18 < yashgaroth> you got stairs in yo house brah?
21:18 < Stee|> so it was hilarious, if strawmanned at points
21:18 < Stee|> sigh.
21:18 < yashgaroth> :V
21:18 < Stee|> pusher robot, etc. etc. etc.
21:18 < yashgaroth> but yes, the fanfic in that threat was great
21:19 < Stee|> I'm Captain Greed on the forums
21:19 < Stee|> I don't post much
21:19 <@kanzure> Stee|: goons are the driving force of the web, didn't you know
21:19 < Stee|> as the leftism often goes very anti-technology
21:19 < delinquentme> SA?
21:19 < Stee|> kanzure: In a lot of ways, it's the truth.
21:19 <@kanzure> somethingawful
21:19 < Stee|> 4chan spawned from SA.
21:19 < yashgaroth> I'm same username, don't post much either, but they're a very solid bunch overall
21:19 <@kanzure> which spawned such autracities as, 4chan
21:19 < Stee|> somethingawful is a fairly heavily moderated website
21:20 < Stee|> with a, uh, unique culture
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21:20 < Stee|> that has shifted very left since 08
21:20 < superkuh> kanzure, yeah, I've rebooted into Windows to play video games.
21:21 < superkuh> I'll be getting some dedicated hardware for the server again in the next month or two.
21:21 <@kanzure> do you want hosting
21:21 < yashgaroth> I don't think they've 'shifted' left really, at worst it was libertarian for a while
21:22 < Stee|> average D&D is between american leftist and communist :P
21:23 < yashgaroth> just like with /r/politics, all the jagoffs congregate to such subforums
21:23 < superkuh> Thanks for the offer. No. I'd rather keep everything in my physical proximity.
21:26 <@kanzure> superkuh: next question.. archels was looking for a good neuron visualization program
21:26 <@kanzure> his complaint is something about everything being rods and cones
21:26 <@kanzure> rods and spheres, rather
21:27 <@kanzure> do you know anything? maybe there's a mayavi module or something that loads modeldb files
21:28 < superkuh> I don't.
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21:35 < delinquentme> http://video.msnbc.msn.com/martin-bashir/46152472#46152472
21:37 <@kanzure> what is it?
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22:11 < delinquentme> degrasse calling newt a tard
22:29 <@kanzure> who cares. who's degrasse.
22:31 < Stee|> Neil DeGrasse Tyson
22:32 < delinquentme> kanzure, have you ever searched for patent ownershipt transfer documents?
22:32 <@kanzure> no, but there's lots of cross-licensing agreement stuff
22:40 < Stee|> kanz, you do noots?
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22:53 <@kanzure> Stee|: somewhat
22:54 < Stee|> cool
22:54 <@kanzure> fenn has been experimenting lately
22:55 < Stee|> Eh, I did a lot of reading on it when I was working on starting a business
22:55 < Stee|> before I took a close look at fda stuff
22:55 <@kanzure> alright. what were you aiming to do
22:56 < Stee|> sell custom mixes people could order online within certain dosage limits and restrictions
22:56 < Stee|> heh
22:56 < Stee|> rather, people could mix their own online
22:56 < Stee|> similar to trueprotein
22:57 < Stee|> I'll probably just work with mokbortalon
22:58 < yashgaroth> if you pill them yourself I'd buy some
23:02 < Stee|> I was going to
23:02 < Stee|> but I'm getting a clearance
23:02 < Stee|> or will be hopefully
23:02 < Stee|> I may put together a flavanoid drink mix
23:02 < Stee|> since those are legal AND effective in superdoses
23:03 < yashgaroth> I mean, as long as someone who's not me does the work of pilling and measuring, it's worth a premium
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23:03 < Stee|> haha
23:04 < Mariu> hey guys
23:04 < Stee|> I was thinking a flavonol/anthocyanin/isoflavone/cinnamon/rhodiola rosea mix
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23:06 < delinquentme> cinnamon buns?
23:06 < yashgaroth> no racetams? they're still sort of legal
23:06 < delinquentme> what about cinnamon buns?
23:06 < delinquentme> i want.
23:06 < delinquentme> klaf
23:06 < delinquentme> klafka, paper
23:06 < delinquentme> good.
23:07 < Stee|> yash: They're not actually, if sold for human consumption
23:07 < Stee|> I talked to the FDA agent in charge of stuff like that on the phone
23:07 < klafka> ah cool
23:08 < yashgaroth> guess I'm lucky I don't mind the taste of them then
23:08 < Stee|> heh
23:08 < Stee|> basically, what it is
23:09 < Stee|> is they aren't legally a drug, a food, or a supplement
23:09 < Stee|> so they can't be labeled as anything meant for humans
23:10 < yashgaroth> an all-but-racetam mix would still be good, I think those are the main restricted noots anyway right?
23:11 <@kanzure> klafka and i were making a nootropics vendor scraping site
23:11 < klafka> heh
23:11 < Stee|> yashgaroth: Actually
23:11 < klafka> i got busy with trying to get a real job though -_-
23:11 < Stee|> I have a list of everything that insurance companies consider risky
23:11 < klafka> i think that the actual scraping was going to be way more problematic than anticipated
23:12 <@kanzure> i'm a little embarrassed by how few nootropics papers i read
23:12 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/nootropics/
23:12 <@kanzure> klafka: nah. not at all
23:12 <@kanzure> anyway, noots paper donations appreciated :>
23:13 < Stee|> hmm
23:13 < Stee|> god, I have some decent stuff actually
23:13 < Stee|> in my qiqqa folder
23:14 < klafka> aah
23:14 < Stee|> I have a paper on lions mane
23:14 < Stee|> which is fucking fascinating shit
23:15 < Stee|> actually, most of my saved papers are on flavonoids
23:16 < Stee|> here's a fun one
23:16 < Stee|> Blueberry-induced changes in spatial working memory correlate with
23:16 < Stee|> changes in hippocampal CREB phosphorylation and brain-derived
23:16 < Stee|> neurotrophic factor (BDNF) levels
23:16 < Stee|> whoops
23:17 <@kanzure> one of the reasons i don't read many noots papers is because the random correlations aren't that helpful
23:18 < Stee|> yeah
23:18 <@kanzure> imminst.org thrives on reading random abstracts.. big fucking deal :/
23:18 < Stee|> flavonoid papers are generally better
23:19 < Stee|> trying to find the paper
23:21 <@kanzure> i wonder why i am awake
23:21 < Stee|> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20955649
23:21 < Stee|> here
23:25 < klafka> lol kanzure
23:25 < klafka> so true
23:26 < Stee|> the study I want is not available
23:27 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:28 < Stee|> http://northumbria.openrepository.com/northumbria/bitstream/10145/123598/2/Scholey_Consumption%20of%20cocoa%20flavanols.pdf
23:35 <@kanzure> added.
23:37 < Stee|> hence me thinking of putting together a drink mix brand
23:54 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has quit []
--- Log closed Sun Jan 29 00:00:37 2012