--- Log opened Sun Feb 26 00:00:26 2012
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07:28 < delinquentme> trolling ycomb: https://twitter.com/#!/delinquentme/status/173789614656602113
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08:05 < kanzure> http://the-scientist.com/2012/02/07/occupy-elsevier/
08:08 < kanzure> http://fabbaloo.com/blog/2012/2/25/pleasant3d-now-open-source.html
08:08 < kanzure> https://github.com/zaggo/Pleasant3D
08:08 < delinquentme> kanzure, wouldn't it be cool to get an assload of hacker scientists to come out of the woodwork and bomb the shit out of em?
08:08 < delinquentme> like deploy the LOIC from some scientific computing cluster >=]
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08:17 < foucist> Steel_ZZZ: don't think so..  useful application of information theory to analyzing a scenario
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08:31 < utopiah> on deanonymisation http://randomwalker.info is usually pretty interesting
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08:36 < uniqanomaly_> delinquentme: what would be cool is dumping all science articles to .onion server by army of android-user drones doing it from within campus wifi networks :>
08:36 < uniqanomaly_> https://www.torproject.org/dist/android/0.2.3.10-alpha-orbot-1.0.7-FINAL.apk android tor
08:36  * delinquentme nuts
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08:36 < uniqanomaly_> with kivy.org you can package python applications into one .apk
08:36 < delinquentme> how does this work?
08:37 < uniqanomaly_> someone would have to set server in tor with many many gigabytes of hdd space
08:37 < delinquentme> whats this thing i just downloaded?
08:37 < delinquentme> and who can I talk to about contributing?
08:38 < uniqanomaly_> its package with TOR anonymous network for android
08:38 < uniqanomaly_>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_%28anonymity_network%29 :>
08:39 < kanzure> sympy is so weird
08:39 < delinquentme> so yeah I know of TOR and android but... this isnt working is it?
08:39 < kanzure> bool(Ge(3,4)) gives False (which is correct)
08:39 < kanzure> bool(And(Le(3,4), Ge(3,4))) gives True
08:39 < uniqanomaly_> havent tested it but site says it does work so
08:39 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure this is wrong >:o
08:40 < delinquentme> uniqanomaly_, url for site?
08:40 < uniqanomaly_> https://www.torproject.org/docs/android.html.en
08:41 < delinquentme> Ohh ok ok so this is just TOR for android
08:42 < delinquentme> none of the interfacing for downloading etc
08:46 < uniqanomaly_> I wrote there "android tor" :P
08:47 < uniqanomaly_> dumping thing is *just idea* so far
08:47 < uniqanomaly_> an
08:47 < uniqanomaly_> :>
08:50 < delinquentme> uniqanomaly_, its certainly in the right vein
08:50 < delinquentme> now if only code was completely OS portable
08:51 < delinquentme> i guess you could make an android script to run the actions ... and then drop that into whatever harvester application we've got on the web
08:51 < delinquentme> How do you build it so that it interfaces w exiting code
08:51 < delinquentme> AND allows for android portability
08:51 < uniqanomaly_> check out kivy.org
08:52 < delinquentme> but that being said .. whats the real ends here ... and is hitting android really even necessary for the end goals
08:52 < uniqanomaly_> its mostly framework for opengl GUIs but you can package python code wit it into one .apk file
08:52 < delinquentme> the end goal might just be get the shit onto an anon network
08:52 < delinquentme> no shit!
08:52 < uniqanomaly_> :>
08:52 < delinquentme> and .apk is "android package file" ?
08:52 < uniqanomaly_> yea
08:53 < kanzure> delinquentme: android gives you a good proxy on college campuses, that's the point
08:53 < kanzure> but i don't think tor helps that much
08:53 < kanzure> just give them a custom http proxy that reports back to you, like any other botnet
08:54 < delinquentme> like its a fucking wet dream no doubt
08:54 < delinquentme> #how?
08:54 < kanzure> what part are you asking how for?
08:55 < delinquentme> how: create totally "illegitimate" quiet destruction of massive publishers done in the name of anaonymity
08:55 < delinquentme> RUHHH
08:55 < delinquentme> ru kidding me
08:55 < delinquentme> engineer this shit and then tag it w anon?
08:56 < kanzure> i think you're just spewing jibberish
08:56 < bkero> gibbering
08:56 < delinquentme> NAH! man!
08:56 < kanzure> do you have an actual question about the technical aspects?
08:56 < delinquentme> kanzure, this is engineering, not research .. so its totally doable
08:57 -!- pasky_ is now known as pasky
08:57 < delinquentme> but like im just mulling over the societal repercussions
08:57 < kanzure> ok.. then why did you say: 08:54 < delinquentme> #how?
08:57 < kanzure> no you're changing subjects now
08:57 < delinquentme> what im saying is that if you engineer something like this to topple these publishers from the inside
08:58 < kanzure> i'm not convinced you're reading my messages
08:58 < delinquentme> and then! tag it as doing of anonymous
08:58 < delinquentme> whoever is running it would eat that shit up .. brand it as their own
08:59 < delinquentme> idk
08:59 < delinquentme> it feels good
08:59 < delinquentme> like
08:59 < delinquentme> masturbation
09:00 < uniqanomaly_> technical masturbation
09:00 < uniqanomaly_> delinquentme: someone gotta setup server and write teh code
09:01 < delinquentme> uniqanomaly_, nah this is not technical masturbation but idealogical masturbation
09:01 < kanzure> you're going around in circles
09:01 < kanzure> go die in a hole somewhere
09:01 < delinquentme> but at what point does that masturbation get you the courage to actually go tell that girl you'd like to bone her brains out?
09:01 < uniqanomaly_> delinquentme: when she has a hole in her head
09:01 < delinquentme> lol
09:02 < delinquentme> NOW
09:02 < delinquentme> NO** wrong answer
09:02 < delinquentme> ok ok ok so
09:02 < delinquentme> god
09:02 < delinquentme> how anonymous is this IRC chat again?
09:02 < uniqanomaly_> not at all
09:02 < delinquentme> sometimes I wish there were no logs at all
09:02 < delinquentme> ^^
09:02 < uniqanomaly_> logs on the internets means google has it means US gov has it
09:02 < delinquentme> you guys should come over and stay in my room
09:02 < delinquentme> #noHomo
09:03 < delinquentme> so we'd need to fucking chat on tor
09:03 < delinquentme> lol
09:03 < delinquentme> it could probably handle that bandwidth
09:03 < uniqanomaly_> right, next time ask phone numbers first, and then say #noHomo
09:03 < uniqanomaly_> ok maybe too much californication lately
09:04 < delinquentme> kanzure, so i really like the observation of the android ad the solid proxy
09:04 < kanzure> we talked about android/http proxies last week
09:04 < delinquentme> how to write this thing in as minimal code as possible
09:04 < kanzure> who cares about minimum?
09:05 < delinquentme> what parts are distinctly android which are distinctly web services
09:05 < delinquentme> god damn v
09:05 < delinquentme> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyaw__64gU8
09:05 < kanzure> android http proxy, that's all..
09:05 < delinquentme> too much gangster dubstep arrogance
09:05 < kanzure> what's hard to understand about that :(
09:05 < delinquentme> so from a student activists perspective
09:05 < delinquentme> they're logging in w the university credentials
09:06 < delinquentme> our end needs to locate whatever access to the journals
09:06 < delinquentme> how do we do that
09:06 < kanzure> i'd tell you what to do but the reality is that you never take my advice
09:06 < delinquentme> i know @ pitt there was a separate service
09:06 < delinquentme> well lets circle jerk for a little while kanzure
09:06 < kanzure> no
09:06 < kanzure> no circle jerking
09:06 < delinquentme> kk
09:06 < kanzure> just ask me what you need.
09:07 < delinquentme> holdup i need to consult my librarian
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09:09 < delinquentme> eudoxia, howday
09:09 < delinquentme> ParahSailin, >>>>>>>>>>
09:09 < delinquentme> ok so
09:09 < delinquentme> kanzure, access w the student credentials
09:10 < kanzure> what about it?
09:10 < eudoxia> yo
09:10 < delinquentme> they need to be able to hit the research journal interface through a connection ... do they have access to that from their phone
09:10 < delinquentme> ?
09:10 < kanzure> if they sign on to campus wifi then they are assigned an internal ip address
09:10 < delinquentme> google wouldnt be happy w us
09:10 < delinquentme> you know this?
09:10 < kanzure> most publishers authenticate by ip address
09:11 < kanzure> who cares about google, stay on target
09:11  * delinquentme evil grin
09:11 < delinquentme> but what I'm saying is YES theyll be connected to university wifi
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09:12 < delinquentme> but does that connection necessarily facilitate a connection to the interface to whatever that journal management program is
09:12 < delinquentme> wtf was it called proxy or
09:12 < delinquentme> basically that login system
09:13 < kanzure> ezproxy is for when you are outside the university network.
09:14 < delinquentme> so internal ip connection guarantees access to journal interfaces
09:14 < delinquentme> ^^^ this is what im curious about
09:15 < kanzure> in the vast majority of cases the answer is yes
09:15 < delinquentme> i guess the other thing is that we'll easily have enough interfaces which *DO* have that access to get the journals
09:16 < delinquentme> do journals pay money into research?
09:16 < delinquentme> or do they fund research in any manner at all?
09:16 < kanzure> who cares
09:17 < kanzure> and the answer is no.
09:46 < Mokbortolan_> I emailed my brain interface idea to the PhD behind the senseg technology
09:47 < delinquentme> kanzure, you're still planning to move to SV right?
09:54 < kanzure> delinquentme: sorta yes
10:05  * delinquentme head is swirling
10:06 < delinquentme> kanzure, have you used chef?
10:06 < delinquentme> the ruby gem
10:09 < delinquentme> fa8bc
10:09 < delinquentme> fa8bc4a5e
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11:36 < kanzure> tcds kit http://flowstateengaged.com/
11:36 < kanzure> 'learn faster. learn more' yeaahhh
11:36 < kanzure> um
11:36 < chris_99> haha
11:36 < kanzure> the marketing speak is strong on this one
11:38 < kanzure> haha stripe
11:38 < kanzure> well ok.
11:39 < chris_99> i'm sure you could make that for a tenner
11:39 < kanzure>    Matt Sornson (mattsornson@gmail.com)
11:39 < kanzure>    +1.8109238787
11:39 < kanzure>    Fax: +1.5555555555
11:39 < kanzure>    714 Wheaton Ave
11:39 < kanzure>    Kalamazoo, MI 49008
11:39 < kanzure> yeah
11:40 < delinquentme> thats the same thing newresearcher was reporting on
11:43 < kanzure> yes but the claims seem a little exaggerated
11:43 < kanzure> this is why the FDA exists - to regulate claims like this
11:43 < delinquentme> kanzure, is there any reason a RESTFUL api cant be built on RoR?
11:43 < kanzure> i think it's great they are making a kit for this, but i'm not sure it's legal to claim all those benefits o.o
11:43 < delinquentme> Im taking a break on these bastardized Jruby gems and migrations and going right to rails
11:44 < kanzure> delinquentme: you can make a restful api on rails.. what's the problem?
11:44 < chris_99> it looks like its meant to be a joke to me kanzure
11:44 < kanzure> i don't think so
11:45 < chris_99> i don't think they're actually saying its going to make you smarter
11:45 < kanzure> it's the largest text on the page!
11:45 < chris_99> yeah, and look at the photo
11:45 < chris_99> to the right of that
11:45 < chris_99> it doesn't look serious at all
11:45 < kanzure> that's just their marketing
11:45 < kanzure> i.e. their way of saying "hey we also waste time on 4chan"
11:46 < kanzure> just ignore that
11:46 < chris_99> i'll ask them if it's a joke ;)
11:47 < kanzure> Reid Berryman <reidberryman@gmail.com>
11:50 < chris_99> from their chat thing:
11:50 < chris_99> is this a joke ?
11:50 < chris_99> ngonzal: No!
11:50 < chris_99> ngonzal: Scientists have been using it since 1920
11:50 < chris_99> ngonzal: Probably not with a 9v battery though..
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12:13 < kanzure> hi Reid_Berryman
12:14 < Reid_Berryman> hey! I was told about this chat from Bryon who's working on a few hardware projects over on this page http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/
12:15 < Mokbortolan_> aww yeah
12:15 < Mokbortolan_> $99 for an IC and a resistor
12:15 < Reid_Berryman> He refered me here because of the nature of a website we launched at a 54 hour startup company, which has two hours remaining.
12:15 < Mokbortolan_> I actually had a similar idea
12:16 < kanzure> Reid_Berryman: you might also find #startups useful
12:16 < Reid_Berryman> Well, I understand what we made, I also understand our abnormaly large price point.
12:17 < Reid_Berryman> Thanks Kansure
12:18 < Reid_Berryman> Its a kit aimed at those with little or no electronic experience. Simply for self testing too on the concept.
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12:19 < kanzure> hi ParahSailin_
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12:22 < Reid_Berryman> Well anyhow, ill drop the site off in here. Input is always helpfull! http://flowstateengaged.com/
12:22 < kanzure> Reid_Berryman: usually we're not all online at the same time
12:22 < kanzure> so just idle around for a few hours, others will speak up
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12:23 < chris_99> i'm guessing the position of the electrodes is important Reid_Berryman?
12:25 < Reid_Berryman> Yep, to achieve different effects and reach the flow state they have to be in different positions. chris_99
12:26 < Mokbortolan_> Reid_Berryman: so, what sort of safety measures will it have?
12:34 < Reid_Berryman> Sorry for the delay Mokbortolan, our design is not offically created outside of prototype, but will have a fuse to prevent an over voltage & amperage. Our IC also stays within the best practice range from research
12:35 < Mokbortolan_> Oh jeez
12:35 < Mokbortolan_> a fuse, eh?
12:35 < Mokbortolan_> the only fuse I could find that would work was from Littelfuse
12:36 < Mokbortolan_> and they're like, $30/ea
12:36 < Mokbortolan_> I'm also designing my own circuit
12:36 < Mokbortolan_> why'd you choose that over the LM334, btw?
12:40 < chris_99> anyone got a link to the datasheet for the LM356, i can't seem to find one
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12:41 < Mokbortolan_> wb
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12:42 < chris_99> is it actually lm4562?
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12:45 < Mokbortolan_> jeez
12:45 < Mokbortolan_> are you here now? :p
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12:49 < kanzure> Reid_Berryman: ping?
12:49 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/210032/FCI/LM356.html ?
12:50 < chris_99> cheers, i'll bookmark that site!
12:50 < Mokbortolan_> huh
12:50 < Mokbortolan_> an audio amp
12:51 < chris_99> its an op-amp yeah
12:51 < ThomasEgi> it is an audio amp
12:51 < ThomasEgi> fixed-gain setting
12:51 < ThomasEgi> depending on your use, there probably are a lot better parts out there
12:51 < ThomasEgi> what do you want to use the op-amp for?
12:52 < chris_99> is it just me or does that alldatasheet not actually work
12:52 < ThomasEgi> you need to enable javascript, i think
12:52 < chris_99> hmm i've got that enabled but i can't see the images
12:52 < chris_99> maybe my browser is messed up
12:53 < ThomasEgi> it works for me tho.
12:53 < ThomasEgi> try downloading the pdf. better to have a local copy anyway.
12:53 < ThomasEgi> so... may i ask what you want to use it for?
12:54 < chris_99> yay works in opera but not FF for some reason for me
12:55 < chris_99> who are you talking to ThomasEgi?
12:55 < ThomasEgi> you. i guess.
12:56 < chris_99> ah, i was just curious how it works
12:56 < chris_99> i'd be too scarred to try it out myself
12:56 < ThomasEgi> how what works?
12:56 < chris_99> the device we're talking about
12:56 < chris_99> the brain stimulation thingy
12:57 < chris_99> tDCS
12:58 < Mokbortolan_> I thought about selling kitas
12:58 < Mokbortolan_> kits
12:58 < chris_99> i'd be scarred people could hurt themselves with it
12:58 < chris_99> and sue you
12:58 < Mokbortolan_> but mine would have a fair bit more protection than an op amp :p
12:58 < Mokbortolan_> yep
12:58 < chris_99> it's a power amp actually, that was my bad
12:59 < ThomasEgi> currents and neurons, not an easy mix. interesting one none the less
13:00 < Mokbortolan_> would it be appropriate?
13:00 < Mokbortolan_> I was planning on using a linear current regulator
13:00 < Mokbortolan_> two in series
13:00 < ThomasEgi> why the need for a power-amp?
13:00 < ThomasEgi> what currents are we talking about here?
13:00 < Mokbortolan_> 2ma
13:00 < chris_99> i'm curious about that too
13:00 < Mokbortolan_> with resistance varying from 100ohms to 20k
13:00 < ThomasEgi> pretty much every op-amp can deliver 2mA
13:01 < chris_99> yeah thats what i thought you could just use a 741
13:01 < chris_99> surely
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13:01 < Mokbortolan_> 334 is more sensitive
13:01 < chris_99> sensitive to what though?
13:01 < Mokbortolan_> err
13:01 < chris_99> its only being used as an output
13:01 < chris_99> from a static signal
13:01 < Mokbortolan_> sorry, it has a range more appropriate to the required current
13:02 < ThomasEgi> if you just want a constant current source with 2mA, you dont need much precision
13:02 < Mokbortolan_> well, you do if you want to range from .5 to 2
13:02 < Mokbortolan_> I dunno though, I'm talking out of my butt, I'm not an EE :p
13:02 < ThomasEgi> in that case, even a npn+ poti is good enough
13:03 < Mokbortolan_> I read some folks talking about using a zener diode
13:03 < Mokbortolan_> then I looked up what a zener diode did :p
13:03 < ThomasEgi> they are good for keeping a reference voltage
13:03 < ThomasEgi> but on their own, they are no good for constant-current.
13:04 < ThomasEgi> you would need a voltage to current converter then.
13:04 < chris_99> "Currently, the accepted maximum current for human use is 2 mA and usually 1 mA or less is used."
13:07 < ThomasEgi> so.. all you want is a regulate-able current source? that goes from 0 to 2mA?
13:08 < chris_99> yup
13:08 < chris_99> so an omp-amp
13:08 < Mokbortolan_> and can adjust to changing resistance
13:08 < chris_99> + resistor
13:08 < ThomasEgi> Mokbortolan_, a resistor itself aint good enough :)
13:08 < Mokbortolan_> because during the session the resistance will go down
13:08 < Mokbortolan_> nope
13:09 < Mokbortolan_> you can use one if you have an ammeter in the circuit
13:09 < Mokbortolan_> and manually adjust
13:09 < Mokbortolan_> but I'd rather have an IC do that for me :p
13:09 < ThomasEgi> easy enough
13:09 < kanzure> what's the resolution on tdcs? my understanding was that it the repeatability on where exactly you're stimulating in the brain is not useful with this technique
13:09 < ThomasEgi> got a npn transistor, a diode, and a few resistors around?
13:09 < Mokbortolan_> no
13:09 < Mokbortolan_> I have 2 LM334's and a big bunch of resistors :p
13:10 < ThomasEgi> no transistors?
13:10 < Mokbortolan_> nope
13:10 < ThomasEgi> odd.
13:10 < Mokbortolan_> I don't have a big electronics it
13:10 < Mokbortolan_> kit
13:10 < Mokbortolan_> I bought these parts specifically for my project
13:10 < Mokbortolan_> I have to sit down and go through all my unlabeled resistors
13:10 < Mokbortolan_> and find the right ones to set up the prototype circuit
13:10 < ThomasEgi> so.. lm334 then..
13:11 < ThomasEgi> and a 9v battery i guess?
13:11 < Mokbortolan_> oh, a fellow named dhzz has helped me design a circuit
13:11 < Mokbortolan_> yes
13:11 < Mokbortolan_> I just have to do it
13:11 < ThomasEgi> got a poti?
13:11 < Mokbortolan_> I have a 10k pot :p
13:11 < ThomasEgi> oh, you have the shematic already?...
13:11 < Mokbortolan_> yep
13:11 < ThomasEgi> okay.
13:11 < Mokbortolan_> I was just wondering why this guy was using that IC
13:11 < ThomasEgi> no idea
13:11 < Mokbortolan_> didn't seem appropriate, but I'm not an EE
13:12 < chris_99> 99$ seems a hell of a lot imo
13:12 < ThomasEgi> but you can get a constant current source with just a poti , an npn transistor, and one resistor.
13:12 < chris_99> for those components
13:12 < Mokbortolan_> what's a poti?
13:12 < ThomasEgi> bill of material probaly range below 10cent
13:12 < chris_99> potentiometer
13:12 < Mokbortolan_> ok, yeah, thought so
13:12 < Mokbortolan_> just wanted to make sure
13:13 < Mokbortolan_> ThomasEgi: yeah, but then you gotta figure the cost of putting it together, making the site, etc, etc
13:13 < Mokbortolan_> would cost at least $3/unit
13:13 < ThomasEgi> uhm.. nope :D
13:13 < chris_99> theres a breadboard too! ;)
13:13 < Mokbortolan_> and you're probably not going to sell many
13:13 < Mokbortolan_> I see a market of about maybe 20
13:13 < Mokbortolan_> any profits would get eaten up in insurance costs :p
13:13 < ThomasEgi> why insurance :D
13:14 < ThomasEgi> building those things as constant current source
13:14 < ThomasEgi> why would you need any insurance. if people use it for medical stuff, their problem.
13:14 < Mokbortolan_> oh sure, but then you can't emblazon your page with "tDCS will make you a genius" type of stuff
13:14 < Mokbortolan_> or reference tDCS really at all
13:14 < Mokbortolan_> this is the FDA's domain
13:14 < kanzure> you can reference tDCS
13:14 < kanzure> just don't say "OUR DEVICE HAS BEEN SHOWN TO MAKE YOU A FUCKING EINSTEIN AND/OR HITLER"
13:15 < Mokbortolan_> no, you can't
13:15 < Mokbortolan_> really
13:15 < chris_99> if they sell it as a 'kit' can they get away without any proper testing
13:15 < Mokbortolan_> they'll even look at your blog posts
13:15 < kanzure> you can get away without proper testing if you don't claim it's a medical device
13:15 < Mokbortolan_> forum posts, etc
13:15 < Mokbortolan_> they'll treat this like they would veterinary steroid supplements
13:15 < kanzure> also you can't really claim positive benefits..
13:15 < ThomasEgi> anyway. it is a 3 part-circuit. , 6 parts if you want to do it really well.
13:15 < Mokbortolan_> I've read a bit on how the FDA works in this regard
13:16 < kanzure> and you know, if you *could* claim positive benefits, i'm not sure tDCS warrants such huge claims abotu its effects
13:16 < Mokbortolan_> <--- runs a small piracetam store
13:16 < chris_99> yeah i'm sceptical about tDCS in general at the moment, although i need to read more about it
13:16 < Mokbortolan_> bbl, errands
13:16 < Mokbortolan_> though
13:17 < kanzure> i mean, it certainly does something.. heh
13:17 < chris_99> heh, even if that is only a tingly sensation
13:17 < kanzure> but so would punching yourself in the head
13:17 < Mokbortolan_> I want to hear Reid_Barryman's answers to my questions
13:17 < kanzure> he left
13:17 < chris_99> ask on their site Mokbortolan_
13:17 < Mokbortolan_> as soon as I asked about the IC's he was using :p
13:17 < kanzure> he's just at a startup competition thing
13:17 < Mokbortolan_> probably a coincedence, I'm sure
13:18 < kanzure> the goal is to use bootstrap.js/stripe.js as fast as possible
13:18 < Mokbortolan_> coincidence
13:18 < kanzure> so they haven't actually tested anything, i'm sure.
13:18 < Mokbortolan_> well, I guess I'll just have to beat him to the market
13:18  * Mokbortolan_ sighs.
13:18 < kanzure> he already beat you :P by putting up an order form
13:18 < Mokbortolan_> he did!
13:18 < kanzure> i know, it's annoying
13:18 < kanzure> even with no product..
13:18 < Mokbortolan_> I wouldn't do that until I had product
13:18 < Mokbortolan_> but that's just me
13:18 < kanzure> right
13:19 < kanzure> or a product that, i dunno, also wokrs
13:19 < Mokbortolan_> hahaha
13:19 < Mokbortolan_> well, that's up to investigation :p
13:19 < chris_99> what's bootstrap.js not heard of that one
13:19 < uniqanomaly_> market verification
13:19 < Mokbortolan_> bbl
13:19 < kanzure> chris_99: a library by twitter to help you throw up sites quickly
13:19 < kanzure> without repeating common bullshit from site to site
13:19 < kanzure> there's tons of these libraries
13:19 < kanzure> bootstrap just so happens to be pretty handy
13:19 < kanzure> and for some reason, popular
13:20 < Mokbortolan_> http://csp.org/practices/entheogens/docs/roberts-immune.html
13:21 < chris_99> ah, do they handle the hosting or something for you, and you point your dns to them
13:21 < Mokbortolan_> Do entheogen-induced mystical experiences boost the immune system?
13:21 < Mokbortolan_> Psychedelics, peak experiences, and wellness
13:22  * Mokbortolan_ gets some circuit boards made.
13:23 < kanzure> chris_99: no
13:23 < kanzure> chris_99: it's a javascript library
13:23 < chris_99> oh its just ui stuff
13:23 < chris_99> gotcha
13:23 < chris_99> on an off-topic note, i've just started using the Play framework
13:25 < kanzure> play?
13:25 < chris_99> http://www.playframework.org/ it's a java based one
13:26 < chris_99> i know java isn't very popular these days, but it's got some nice features
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13:34 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/controllable-cc-source.png
13:35 < chris_99> nice :)
13:38 < ThomasEgi> should give out 0 to 2 mA
13:39 < ThomasEgi> better to test it with an ampere meter befor connecting it to your skull tho
13:39 < roksprok> ThomasEgi: What are you using for electrodes?
13:39 < ThomasEgi> me? i dont use anything
13:40 < nsh_> walrus tusks
13:40 < ThomasEgi> i just slammed together a constant current source :D
13:40 < ThomasEgi> that's all
13:40 < ThomasEgi> i once looked for eleectrodes.
13:40 < roksprok> ah...well, i actually tried out several homemade ones last night
13:40 < roksprok> and they all failed
13:40 < ThomasEgi> and found a nice company nearby selling in low quantities for a reasonable price. pretty much everything you can ask for
13:41 < ThomasEgi> silver-cloride was high on my list
13:42 < ThomasEgi> http://www.science-products.com/Products/CatalogG/IVM-AgAgCl-Pellets/ivm.html those were my favorits. altho i never actually bought any.
13:42 < ThomasEgi> they also offer a great range of other scientific products.
13:42 < roksprok> wow, thanks those look amazingly good
13:43 < roksprok> something else to look at is galvanic vestibular stimulation
13:43 < ThomasEgi> if they wont ship to your place, just tell me, i'll try picking them up from their office then.
13:43 < roksprok> it uses about the same current
13:43 < roksprok> and would be a good 'proof current is flowing'
13:43 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, oh.. wait. thet circuit has a mistake :D
13:44 < roksprok> as well as a hit if you are in meetings with investors/potential employees/ etc.
13:44 < roksprok> thanks
13:47 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, updated the file, same link. just refresh. the diode D2 was the wrong way round
13:54 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, bill of materials for the circuit, 49 euro-cent, in single-quantities.
13:54 < ThomasEgi> 49.4 to be precise
13:54 < chris_99> hehe
13:55 < chris_99> the main cost for their project is the electrodes + breadboard
13:56 < chris_99> are you sure that circuit would only give 2mA out
13:56 < ThomasEgi> yeah
13:56 < ThomasEgi> pretty sure
13:56 < ThomasEgi> you can test tho
13:56 < ThomasEgi> that means. if your battery is not going over the maximum voltage of the transistor,
13:56 < ThomasEgi> that would be around 40 volts or so
13:57 < ThomasEgi> if the transistor dies. you'r doomed anyway :D
13:58 < chris_99> i'd play around simulating it in LTSpice but i can't get wine running
13:59 < ThomasEgi> if you increase the value of R2 it will be even less current
13:59 < chris_99> R2 seems to be what's controlling the current really
13:59 < ThomasEgi> i can explain to you. but i just got invinted to a game. so it will have to wait like.. maybe 40 to 50 minutes
14:14 < chris_99> unless i've missed something isn't the collector current 100mA
14:14 < chris_99> for that
14:18 < ThomasEgi> na.
14:18 < ThomasEgi> i will explain soon. maybe 20 minutes :)
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14:21 < ThomasEgi> ok. they played fast. and are up for another game :D
14:22 < chris_99> got it now, the guys in electronics, reminded me of  Ic = Ib * hFE
14:24 < ThomasEgi> in this case. Ib is self adjusting. because  if you increase the voltage at the Base, the emitter will follow (minus the BE voltage drop)
14:24 < ThomasEgi> so you pretty much get a voltage forced on R2. which defines the current
14:27 < chris_99> so whats the gain for this transistor?
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14:40 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, it doesnt matter
14:40 < ThomasEgi> will be back in. like 15 minutes or so
14:52 < ThomasEgi> ok. now i have time again
14:53 < ThomasEgi> so. i will explain from left to right R1 and D1 make a constant voltage, of 4.7V
14:54 < ThomasEgi> just to be independand from the battery or powersupply voltage
14:54 < ThomasEgi> then comes the poti and the diode D2
14:55 < ThomasEgi> D2 is in forward-direction. so it drops about 0.7 volt. it compensates for the transistors BE-voltage drop, which is about the same.
14:55 < chris_99> so whats the voltage at B?
14:55 < ThomasEgi> between 0.7 and 4.7 volt
14:56 < ThomasEgi> with respect to ground
14:56 < chris_99> ok so the transistor's biased to be always on
14:56 < ThomasEgi> no
14:56 < ThomasEgi> the transistor's current depends on the B-E voltage
14:56 < chris_99> transistors are normally on at 0.6V+
14:57 < ThomasEgi> between 0.6 and 0.7 V jeah
14:57 < chris_99> ok so the transistor is always on then
14:57 < ThomasEgi> hehe. not really
14:57 < ThomasEgi> it is not a discrete on or off.
14:58 < chris_99> above 0.6v it's 'on' though
14:58 < ThomasEgi> nono
14:58 < ThomasEgi> that is where R2 kicks in.
14:58 < chris_99> i understand its analogue
14:58 < ThomasEgi> imagine a B-ground voltage of 3 volt
14:58 < ThomasEgi> that woult, without R2, turn the transitstor on.
14:58 < ThomasEgi> that would make a lot of current flow through the transistor.
14:58 < ThomasEgi> . now we add R2.
14:59 < chris_99> so what current range do you reckon you're circuit would give?
14:59 < ThomasEgi> wait for the explanation of R2 :)
14:59 < ThomasEgi> if you put 3volt on B, then a big current flows through the transistor, which in turn, drops a voltage at R2
15:00 < ThomasEgi> which again. increases the potential of E, and therefore reduces the BE voltage again.
15:00 < ThomasEgi> it is sort of self-regulating. the higher the voltage at B, the higher the current, the higehr the voltage drop at R2
15:01 < ThomasEgi> the actual current that flows is roughly the voltage between B and ground , minus the BE saturation voltage, and that divided by R2
15:02 < ThomasEgi> so whatever happens, your current will never ever rise over (4.7V-0.6V)/R2
15:02 < chris_99> what formulae is that from?
15:03 < ThomasEgi> from the circiut
15:03 < ThomasEgi> since i added D2, it gets even easier
15:03 < ThomasEgi> as d2 drops about the same voltage as BE. which is ,about 0.7 volt
15:03 < ThomasEgi> ah wait
15:04 < ThomasEgi> bullshit :D
15:04 < ThomasEgi> na
15:04 < ThomasEgi> wait again
15:04 < ThomasEgi> no.. it is correct
15:04 < ThomasEgi> sry. am a bit low on food for hours
15:04 < ThomasEgi> simplified, it is roughly 4V/R2
15:05 < ThomasEgi> given your transistor is alive.
15:05 < ThomasEgi> and not broken.
15:05 < ThomasEgi> this formular neglects a few minor effects. but the error introduced by that is smaller than the resistor tollerances. so no need to drag it around
15:08 < ThomasEgi> the circuit itself is rather stable, and should work with a veriety of parts, the values of R2 and D1 define the maximum current so you probably want to stick with them
15:09 < ThomasEgi> hm.. i am afraid my explanation went right over any non EE head in here.
15:09 < ThomasEgi> feel free to ask question :) i'll try to explain
15:10 < chris_99> i'm just reading up on the transistor formulae now :)
15:11 < ThomasEgi> R = U / I
15:11 < ThomasEgi> oh transistor
15:11 < ThomasEgi> sry. read resistor
15:11 < ThomasEgi> transistors are nonlinear parts
15:11 < chris_99> indeed
15:11 < ThomasEgi> theyr formulars are pretty dificult
15:12 < ThomasEgi> and. you probably wont be able to figure out anything from looking at them
15:12 < chris_99> i need to order 'the art of electronics'
15:12 < ThomasEgi> but. as you know. below the 0.6 volt, the transistor is non-conducting
15:12 < chris_99> was recommended it a while ago
15:12 < ThomasEgi> means it is "off"
15:13 < ThomasEgi> if you go above that voltage, the base-current will start to flow (and with a multiple of that, the collector current)
15:13 < ThomasEgi> the emitter current is basis+collector current. but since the collector current is usually hundret times bigger. collector and emmiter are almost equal.
15:14 < ThomasEgi> the more the transistor "turns on" , means if more current flows, the resistor R2 will reduce the BE voltage again.
15:15 < ThomasEgi> so it counteracts. and balances.
15:16 < ThomasEgi> the transistor is neither on, nor off. but somewhere inbetween.
15:16 < ThomasEgi> in most transistor datasheets there are diagrams
15:18 < chris_99> yup :)
15:18 < ThomasEgi> those can help you to find the BE voltage, but it is roughly 0.6 volt.
15:18 < ThomasEgi> in your case you would want to ahve a look at a diagramm showing the Ube for 2mA collector current.
15:18 < chris_99> what kind of electronics are you into out of interest?
15:19 < ThomasEgi> all sorts of.
15:19 < ThomasEgi> commercially. i build an sell controlling units, that can be attached to computers via usb
15:19 < ThomasEgi> they are used to turn LED's or small motors on and off.
15:19 < ThomasEgi> usualy at info-panels in exhibitions.
15:19 < ThomasEgi> to indicate where on a map a certain thing is located.
15:19 < chris_99> ah cool, using a microcontroller?
15:20 < ThomasEgi> yeah
15:20 < chris_99> nice i've just been playing around with PICs recently, made a GPS clock
15:20 < ThomasEgi> another region of interest of mine is, building free-space optics.
15:20 < ThomasEgi> i am more into ATMEL's product range. mainly due to the good documentation and the nice pipeline under linux
15:21 < chris_99> i'm using PICs under linux too actually
15:21 < ThomasEgi> so the other interesting thing is sending data around, using a couple of led's lenses and electronics.
15:21 < ThomasEgi> a bit like wlan. but with light instead of wifi-radio
15:21 < ThomasEgi> and . a while ago, i became interested in implants :)
15:22 < chris_99> tried making one?
15:22 < ThomasEgi> i am still working on my building-blocks.
15:23 < ThomasEgi> i intend to build a set of modules first. which can be easily re-used to build more advanced stuff.
15:23 < ThomasEgi> currently working on subdermal powersupplies, including inductive charging
15:23 < chris_99> ooh cool :)
15:23 < ThomasEgi> i pretty much finished my tests with magnetometers as sensors.
15:24 < ThomasEgi> next on my list are tests with TI's ADS119x chips
15:24 < chris_99> i'm curious about nuclear batteries at the moment
15:24 < ThomasEgi> as they would allow to get information out of nerves and muscles.
15:24 < ThomasEgi> and last but not least, i need to get some electrodes and output working
15:24 < ThomasEgi> nuclear batteries? for implants?
15:25 < chris_99> for all sorts, but yeah you could use them inside the body i guess
15:25 < chris_99> they used to be used in pacemakers
15:25 < chris_99> not sure if they still are
15:25 < ThomasEgi> hm... it is true that implants are very low power. at least most of them.
15:25 < ThomasEgi> but from my estimates. most implants i had in mind would run almost 2 weeks on a tiny li-cell that can be recharged in one night
15:26 < ThomasEgi> which would be a good deal, especially since they are cheap and easy to get hands on
15:26 < chris_99> i wanted to try and buy one of these http://www.citylabs.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10&Itemid=25
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15:29 < ThomasEgi> hm. 20 microwatts.
15:30 < ThomasEgi> that would cut it pretty close.
15:31 < chris_99> i only wanted it to play with really see what i could use it for
15:31 < ThomasEgi> that's sure enough to power a clock. but powering something like an magnetometer, or angular rate sensor would be out of question
15:31 < chris_99> yeah
15:32 < ThomasEgi> 20 microwatts aint much. you could power a lcd wristwatch with that , i guess
15:33 < ThomasEgi> hm. holds a total of 12kJ energy...
15:34 < ThomasEgi> tiny li-ion battery has like 1.2kJ
15:35 < ThomasEgi> with the advantage of it to be easily rechargeable.
15:35 < ThomasEgi> btw. i just gave the circuit a run.
15:37 < chris_99> works out well?
15:37 < ThomasEgi> it does work pretty well. unless your head-resistance is too high. in that case, by the ohmian law, there simply is less current flowing than you set.
15:38 < ThomasEgi> but from shorting the electrodes up to several kOhm head-resistance, it keeps the current constant.
15:39 < ThomasEgi> it never exceeds the set current. guess that is the most important part.
15:39 < ThomasEgi> do you have any experience-values for the resistance between the electrodes
15:40 < chris_99> nah, i've never used electrodes myself
15:42 < ThomasEgi> http://www9.dw-world.de/rtc/infotheque/semiconamps/semiconductor_amps4.html
15:42 < ThomasEgi> chapter 4.2.6
15:43 < ThomasEgi> a very simple circuit. that can act als constant current source. i pretty much recommend that , additionally
15:43 < ThomasEgi> just for safety in case the transistor breaks due to ,, i dunno, drowning in coke or beer or so
15:45 < ThomasEgi> or... a fuse or so.
15:45 < ThomasEgi> better be safe than sorry
15:45 < ThomasEgi> circuit itself works. but if the parts fail, there is no fallback atm.
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16:02 < delinquentme> skrillex is my hero
16:02 < delinquentme> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83UEnLOV1oE
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16:29 < kanzure> "in the early days of personal computing, when you would go to Radio Shack to buy a set of transistors, you had to individually test each one, because they had a 50% chance of not performing to spec."
16:30 < delinquentme> i like the part where.. engineering disciplines
16:32 < ThomasEgi> hehe . well in this circuit, will work as long as the part is not completely broken.
16:32 < ThomasEgi> performing out of spec is not an issue here
16:37 < delinquentme> dustep cat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgGfOb101V0
16:38 < delinquentme> reminds me of the little i know about capacitors
17:00 < uniqanomaly_> http://grooveshark.com/#!/artist/Kryptic+Minds/100645 dat
17:01 < delinquentme> ^^ wut is did uniqanomaly_
17:02 < uniqanomaly_> some real music
17:05 < delinquentme> which song?
17:05 < delinquentme> listening to one of us
17:05 < delinquentme> sounds like it could have a little heft
17:07 < delinquentme> dark ambient type stuff
17:07 < delinquentme> not bad :D
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17:11 < roksprok> to anyone who is experimenting with tdcs: i have finally gotten my electrodes to work.  it is a plastic water bottlecap with a hole in the center, a wire inserted into the hole into a 2in by 2in yellow kitchen sponge.  the back of the sponge is layered in duck tape to isolate it from your fingers or whatever you are using to hold it on your head.  the conductive solution is a 1:1:.5 ratio of salt: water: flour.  use a bunch of salt, my failures turned o
17:11 < roksprok> be due to not enough salt in my saline solution
17:12 < roksprok> connected to a nine-volt this resulted in 7mA of current from one side of my head to the other
17:12 < delinquentme> roksprok, how are you locating this charge?
17:12 < delinquentme> isnt that a key part of the hardware?
17:13 < roksprok> i was doing galvanic vestibular stimulation, so i put one sponge on each mastoid
17:13 < delinquentme> and the sponges sound kinda sketchy for skin contact?
17:13 < roksprok> (the bony part right behind your ear)
17:13 < roksprok> delinquentme: that's why they are soaked in saline, wet sponges are used in a lot of the university research
17:13 < delinquentme> so its supposed to run a small current right through yourcortex?
17:13 < delinquentme> kk
17:14 < delinquentme> i dont know much about this
17:14 < roksprok> i think the one i was doing was interfereing with the balancing stuff in your ear
17:14 < delinquentme> derp wrong term
17:14 < delinquentme> on my part
17:14 < roksprok> because when activated you're pulled towards one side
17:14 < delinquentme> well you use fluid within the ear to balance
17:15 < delinquentme> fluid is probably ionized
17:15 < delinquentme> so that'd make sense
17:15 < roksprok> http://www.google.com/imgres?q=tdcs+sponge&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=811&bih=597&tbm=isch&tbnid=bn1lFrbpM7GPMM:&imgrefurl=http://www.mccauslandcenter.sc.edu/CRNL/tools/blindside&docid=_ZU23F02pmIxHM&imgurl=http://www.mccauslandcenter.sc.edu/CRNL/wp-content/upLoads/blindside.jpg&w=800&h=550&ei=GNlKT67SOqnr0gHYtajuDQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=456&sig=117742203559880750765&page=1&tbnh=117&tbnw=151&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&tx=56&ty=26
17:15 < roksprok> there is a pic of a university's equpment
17:15 < roksprok> those sponges are made by a medical supply company
17:16 < roksprok> so they work better as far as saltwater dripping down your neck
17:16 < delinquentme> hmm good to know
17:17 < roksprok> i haven't tried actual tdcs, but that seems to be what most people are doing, so i thought i'd include tdcs in there if people are searching the logs for stuff about it
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17:18 < roksprok> also after reading about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
17:18 < foucist> roksprok: very cool, do you have a writeup of what you did somewhere? :P
17:18 < roksprok> i'm a bit worried about the placebo effect
17:19 < roksprok> foucist: no, but i'll work on one once my camera is charged
17:19 < delinquentme> roksprok, get volunteers
17:19 < delinquentme> or if you have a pet
17:20 < delinquentme> but theyll prob try to pull it off
17:21 < roksprok> delinquentme: when someone gets home i'm going to have them randomly switch the current direction, and see if i drift in that direction like the volunteers did
17:21 < roksprok> in actual studies
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17:22 < roksprok> it looks like i'm going to have to improve my electrodes for tdcs stuff, as it needs more like 30 minutes
17:22 < roksprok> and right now i'm just holding them to my head
17:22 < roksprok> i'll try to find a broken pair of earphones around the house
17:23 < delinquentme> roksprok, like a DJ
17:23 < delinquentme> :D
17:23 < roksprok> i'd like to get something like this going: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guaiDZdsDjI
17:24 < roksprok> ^ video of gvs headphone rig
17:24 < roksprok> delinquentme: i wonder if deadmau5 would put a unit in his helmet so he can be in 'flow' while doing his shows
17:25 < delinquentme> ^^^^^
17:25 < delinquentme> or if dr dre would like XXX + the weed
17:25 < delinquentme> in his beats by dre
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17:37 < Mokbortolan_> hmm
17:37 < Mokbortolan_> looks like that bargain-basement tDCS guy didn't come back to assplain himself
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17:46 < ThomasEgi> hm?
17:46 < ThomasEgi> that one with the lm334 ?
17:46 < Mokbortolan_> No, his page referenced an audio amp
17:47 < Mokbortolan_> lm456 or something like that
17:47 < Mokbortolan_> lm334 is what I'm using :)
17:47 < ThomasEgi> lm is lm. they prettymuch are more or less the same
17:51 < Mokbortolan_> yeah, those numbers don't mean anything really
17:51 < Mokbortolan_> it's just marketing
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17:52 < ThomasEgi> some parts differ. for some special cases you really need a certain one. but for most of the regular diy-projects, most are pretty interchangeable
17:52 < ThomasEgi> bedtime for me now.
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18:51 < delinquentme> nice got my RJB process running within RoR parsing out the chemoinformatics stuff
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19:34 < ParahSailin_> anyone know anything about oxytocin?
19:36 < n_bentha> it's good for sex!
19:36 < n_bentha> :P
19:38 < kanzure> ParahSailin_: i did this weird microbe once that was synthesizing it
19:46 < yashgaroth> it'd be pretty easy to make periplasmically in e.coli and purify over a size exclusion column, but what do I know
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20:39 < kanzure> http://baoilleach.blogspot.com/2008/03/python-scripting-language-of-chemistry.html
20:39 < kanzure> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3637682
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23:38 < splicer> > i did this weird microbe once that was synthesizing it
23:38 < splicer> kanzure: what does 'did' mean in this case?
23:40 < kanzure> whatever you call all the prep working leading up to a inserting a plasmid
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23:42 < splicer> ok... thanks
23:42 < kanzure> hi Juul
23:43 < Juul> hi kanzure
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--- Log closed Mon Feb 27 00:00:28 2012