--- Log opened Sun Apr 01 00:00:16 2012
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00:49 < nmz787> i think the exploits would still be possible in that situation
00:50 < nmz787> if i run ssh with X forwarding, I can display chrome and still be vulnerable to having things be swapped to disk (like they talk about)
00:50 < nmz787> its kind of like the princeton cold boot attack in that sense
00:50 < nmz787> well, except its a swap file
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01:25 < jrayhawk> encrypted swap; *then* it becomes a princeton cold-boot attack
01:28 < katsmeow-afk> nmz787 , yeas, Bittman, correct
01:29 < nmz787> cool
01:29 < nmz787> ok goodnight all
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01:30 < katsmeow-afk> i don't mean port forwarding, i mean sending the least amount of info to draw the page, not even adhereing to http/js/ect protocols
01:31 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, memory ghost and page swaps will still leave data on the display computer, but it won't be sent the exploits to find it
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01:43 < jrayhawk> X forwarding pretty much is the least amount of info to draw the page.
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01:46 < jrayhawk> I'm sorta hoping someday we'll be able to forward nested X servers around and not have to worry about all this browser crap anymore.
01:48 < jrayhawk> actually i guess they don't really need to be nested now with wayland
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03:40 < skorket> is kanzure still around?
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03:51 < ThomasEgi> skorket, he was yesturday
03:53 < skorket> yeah, kinda late now
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05:56 < kanzure> skorket: sure
05:57 < kanzure> delinquentme: that looks fine as an instance variable
05:58 < kanzure> nmz787: i see no problem with asking about oligopilot.. ask away
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06:34 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/th/more/988/  has a link to http://humanityplus.org/learn/philosophy/faq  which is 404
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07:27 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: like i said.. they don't know how to make websites
07:27 < kanzure> hplusmagazine has been down for months
07:29 < chris_99> it's not available in physical form is it, been ages since i've looked at that
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07:42 < chris_99> http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679583/tooth-tattoos-will-tell-when-youre-ill
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08:24 < kanzure> chris_99: they stopped that after one or two issues.
08:25 < chris_99> aha
08:26 < kanzure> chris_99: when i was working on their servers i found this.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHlQnb1k_s
08:28 < chris_99> heh
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11:04 < Replop> Various philosophies says to not care about material possessions.      I wonder what they will say when most  possessions will become immaterial, software.
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11:28 < ThomasEgi> Replop, because posession is a dead-weight to a persons mind, hindering you from advancing .
11:28 < ThomasEgi> same is true for immaterial stuff you pile up
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11:44 < Steel2> maybe
11:44 < Steel2> that's opinion, not fact :P
11:47 < ThomasEgi> well we are talking bout philosophies right?
11:49 < Steel2> some philosophies don't have issues with material possessions
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12:01 < skorket> kanzure, can you describe the process of creating the microfluidic chips?
12:01 < nmz787> skorket: there are many ways
12:02 < skorket> the 'diy' way
12:02 < nmz787> skorket: the main one we are considering for prototyping is to cut the channels out of a thin silicone layer that's been placed on acrylic
12:03 < skorket> why are you placing them on acrylic?
12:03 < skorket> and what are you using to cut?
12:03 < nmz787> the idea is that the silicone burns all the way through, into the acrylic a bit... so that the silicone layer has quite straight walls
12:03 < nmz787> i.e. no trough or rounded bottoms
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12:04 < nmz787> we'll either use a CO2 laser, or an IR laser thats near the absorbance peak for the silicone
12:04 < skorket> I see.  And this makes one layer?  The flow layer
12:04 < skorket> ?
12:05 < nmz787> it makes one layer, yes
12:05 < nmz787> then you take another piece of think silicone, that hasn't been cut, and bond that to the top of the just cut layer
12:05 < nmz787> then peel them off from the acrylic together
12:06 < nmz787> if you peeled off the cut layer with no top layer, its likely to break/rip
12:06 < nmz787> so with this method we can probably get 2 or 3 layer devices
12:06 < skorket> but you've burned through in some areas all the way to the acrylic...so it's like taking up a stencil
12:06 < skorket> you want to have backing to take off the acrylic layer...
12:06 < nmz787> yes
12:06 < skorket> ah, I see
12:07 < ParahSailin> if you burn silicone you get glass
12:07 < skorket> so now you have a cut layer with a silicone backing
12:07 < nmz787> and you repeat the whole process, then bond the two double-layers to each other
12:07 < skorket> do it again and you have another one.  put them on top of each other and you have a 2 layer microfluidic chip
12:07 < nmz787> and you have uncut-cut-cut-uncut
12:07 < skorket> interesting
12:07 < ParahSailin> stick to acrylic films
12:08 < nmz787> i have a feeling you might be able to peel off a layer that has minimal cuts on it
12:08 < ParahSailin> pdms is really shitty for microfluidics
12:08 < ParahSailin> its used in papers where they only have to get results out of a device once to publish
12:08 < skorket> how thick are the silicone films in this?
12:08 < nmz787> or that you dont care about the channels being distorted (the valves work on air pressure but i dont think the overall channel shape really matters)
12:09 < nmz787> as thick as you want, but we'll probably use 25 - 50 microns
12:10 < nmz787> parahsailin: yeah but it should be 'good enough' for prototyping.... and thats all we want it for really
12:10 < nmz787> it works well for water based chemistry
12:10 < ParahSailin> the only way to really pattern it is the "soft lithography" embossing with a mold method
12:11 < nmz787> i have papers showing successful use of a laser cut-through and transfer method like i just described
12:11 < ParahSailin> and you would do this with glass
12:11 < ParahSailin> glass and silicone bond
12:11 < ParahSailin> they laser ablate pdms?
12:11 < nmz787> yea
12:11 < nmz787> spin-coat PDMS onto acrylic
12:12 < nmz787> cut through into the acrylic, bond uncut pdms layer on top, peel off
12:12 < ParahSailin> why not just stamp?
12:12 < nmz787> not as fast
12:12 < nmz787> i am laser cutting something right now
12:12 < nmz787> oh wait, it just finished
12:12 < nmz787> i just hit go again, it should be done with this pass in about 40 seconds
12:12 < ParahSailin> you have to cure the pdms anyway, stamping occurs at the same time
12:13 < nmz787> right but you need to make the mold
12:13 < ParahSailin> ah ok
12:13 < nmz787> in this case we can just have lots of pdms blanks already cured
12:13 < nmz787> and throw them in the cutter
12:13 < ParahSailin> why do you want to use pdms then?
12:14 < nmz787> with ozone bonding i think one of these can go from CAD to reality in <30 mins
12:14 < skorket> for the control layer, the channels that put pressure on the flow layer underneath or just bigger?  Meaning it's just the size of the channel and not any special placement of the pump or anything?
12:14 < ParahSailin> you can spincoat acrylic just as easily
12:14 < nmz787> PDMS is flexible, acrylic isn't... you need some flex to stop flow in valving
12:15 < nmz787> skorket: yeah basically, the control channels have to line up, or at least cross over the channel you wish to control
12:16 < skorket> I understand (I think), but it's just a matter of making the channel wider in the control layer in order for it to act like a switch to the flow layer?
12:16 < ParahSailin> what device do you have in mind?
12:16 < ParahSailin> whats the goal
12:16 < skorket> me?
12:16 < nmz787> kanzure and I want to build a genome compiler
12:17 < nmz787> but lots of small goals between here and there
12:17 < nmz787> so the laser is just to help us iterate quickly
12:17 < nmz787> then when we settle on a design, have it fabbed in whatever better processes are out there for production
12:18 < nmz787> some chemistries don't like PDMS, but still work OK and get progressively worse from the time the chip is fresh
12:18 < ParahSailin> hm, i guess you can laser ablate pdms
12:18 < ParahSailin> how big of a laser do you need
12:18 < nmz787> we're gonna spin our own
12:19 < nmz787> but i figure 15cm * 15 cm cutting field
12:19 < nmz787> the reason we'll make our own is that commercial ones don't have the physical resolution... i.e. high enough DPI
12:19 < nmz787> thats merely because they are designed to cut balsa wood and acrylic for hobbyists in the macro workd
12:19 < nmz787> worl
12:20 < nmz787> d
12:20 < skorket> yeah, you're working at 1/20th of a millimeter or so?  These things are tiny
12:20 < ParahSailin> id suggest nanopore membranes rather than mechanical valves
12:21 < nmz787> we'll might implement those as well, but for filtering
12:21 < nmz787> how would you use them for valving?
12:21 < nmz787> there's a company here in town that i've talked to that makes controlled nanoporous membranes....
12:22 < ParahSailin> diffusion through them is very slow, only way to get movement through them is electro-osmotic force
12:22 < nmz787> simpore
12:22 < nmz787> hmm
12:22 < nmz787> with electro-osmosis, won't you get electrolysis too
12:23 < ParahSailin> is laser ablating lots of things that much easier than ablating a die once for stamping?
12:26 < nmz787> yeah if you're changing the design a lot
12:26 < nmz787> with stamping you also can't get through-holes
12:26 < ParahSailin> do you have a pdf handy of ablating pdms?
12:26 < ParahSailin> im not at my institutional network atm
12:27 < nmz787> how do i send it?
12:27 < ParahSailin> ropoctl@gmail.com
12:27 < nmz787> put it on scribd?
12:28 < ParahSailin> that works
12:29 < nmz787> http://www.scribd.com/doc/87577165/jmm9-3-037002
12:29 < nmz787> you can see on pg 3 that the channel walls aren't perfect
12:31 < nmz787> but we think, that they'll likely be fine for rapid prototyping... and when we hit the limit of the tech, hopefully we'll be at the point where we can try a better method (or send out to a fab)
12:33 < skorket> nmz787, can you speak a little bit about the pumps you guys use/are being used?
12:33 < ParahSailin> 30 w co2 laser pulsed at 5khz doesnt sound too hard
12:34 < ParahSailin> the ash doesnt look like too much of a problem
12:35 < nmz787> initially we'll probably use expensive positive displacement pumps from IDEX
12:36 < nmz787> basically a piece of acrylic (I think) with a piston hole cut out, a zirconia piston goes into that which is attached to a screw, with a stepper motor driving the screw
12:37 < nmz787> for on chip valving we'll start here
12:37 < nmz787> http://www.stanford.edu/group/foundry/Microfluidic%20valve%20technology.html
12:38 < nmz787> they use macro 3-way gas valves attached to a gas source, atmosphere, and the control channel
12:39 < nmz787> i think we could use small solenoids to act as on/off pumps for each control channel
12:39 < ParahSailin> i remember using kapton membranes for valves
12:39 < nmz787> something like a small electronics inductor with a finish nail sized cylinder through the center
12:40 < nmz787> ebay also has $3 linear stepper actuators
12:40 < nmz787> but i'd like the cost per valve to be <$1
12:42 < skorket> nmz787 where on ebay do you see that?
12:42 < skorket> and considering all you want is a binary on and off, no need to go into stepper motors, right?  Even a DC motor will do...
12:43 < ParahSailin> looks like this is a much better way to fabricate stuff than back when i was doing that
12:46 < nmz787> skorket: not finding them now
12:46 < nmz787> skorket: but I think that is a realistic price from china
12:46 < ParahSailin> i bet it would work for my flow cytometry cell
12:46 < skorket> maybe try alibaba when you get there
12:47 < nmz787> skorket: right, only need on/off.... which is why i was thinking just a solenoid
12:47 < skorket> I had trouble finding DC motors for less than $1.  I eventually got lucky and found a lot for .25 to .50 each but I had to dig
12:47 < skorket> could always just roll your own solenoids too, might be a lot cheaper...
12:47 < ParahSailin> you can use ozone to bond rather than reactive ion etching with o2?
12:48 < nmz787> yeah
12:48 < nmz787> isnt that basically the same thing?
12:49 < ParahSailin> reactive ion etching means theres an evacuated chamber full of purple glowing argon o2 plasma
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12:49 < ParahSailin> thats what we used, but we used that because we had that
12:51 < nmz787> so the diff is vacuum vs no vacuum?
12:51 < nmz787> i've done RIE but only once or twice
12:52 < nmz787> and it was for making transistors
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12:53 < ParahSailin> well fire vs not fire, but it looks like people have success using uv ozone as a substitute
12:55 < nmz787> yeah i think some of the ozone machines are just using a voltage multiplier, not unlike the ionizers sold for home air purification
12:58 < ParahSailin> get ozone machine from pool supplier
12:58 < ParahSailin> easy
13:17 < nmz787> ooo
13:17 < nmz787> never knew that would be a source
13:19 < ParahSailin> yah they are really cheap
13:29 < katsmeow-afk> in many cases of working with high voltage, NOT making ozone is the goal
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13:44 < katsmeow-afk> i seem to remember a few "electronic" air filters sold in stores could not get UL approval because they emitted way too much ozone, and probably on purpose
13:46 < ParahSailin> i used to like those, and actually my apartment could probably use some cleansing flame of ozone
13:46 < ParahSailin> though i know its shit for lungs
13:47 < katsmeow-afk> generally burns anything trying to use it for regular oxygen
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14:07 < nmz787> i figure its too low concentration in the home filters to ever really get to your lungs
14:07 < nmz787> but yeah if you can smell it, its getting to your lungs i guess
14:08 < kanzure> fan + window
14:08 < ParahSailin> i really need to borrow some ozone gasser
14:08 < ParahSailin> just to blast my place some weekend when im not home
14:09 < katsmeow-afk> your smeller will prolly pass a lot of it to lungs before it reaches smelling thresholds
14:10 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: we could add coloring to the particulates
14:11 < katsmeow-afk> heh
14:11 < katsmeow-afk> "what a pretty hue of green your lungs are"
14:12 < katsmeow-afk> anyhow, ozone being a 3-atom molecule, adding a colorant may simply settle it to the ground, where we can walk on it
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14:26 < ParahSailin> aubrey de gray is sort of a famous person in some circles right?
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14:32 < katsmeow-afk> seems to be : http://duckduckgo.com/?q=Human+enhancement+aubrey+de+gray
14:33 < katsmeow-afk> fwiw, https seems to work fine on that url too
14:40 < kanzure> ParahSailin: sure..
14:40 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us:9001/ has tons of his videos
14:52 < nmz787> kanzure: have you watched every one of those videos?
14:52 < katsmeow-afk> or is your ocd better now?
14:56 < kanzure> nmz787: most of them.. but not all at once
14:56 < nmz787> kanzure: laser cutting thin plywood is giving me a headache... we need to make sure we pay more attention to exhaust than my roommate has with this setup
14:57 < kanzure> do you have a blower?
14:57 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, how about sucking the fumes out, or through a bubbler ?
14:58 < kanzure> i hooked up a blower to my laser cutter
14:58 < kanzure> it blows out into a spray booth
14:58 < kanzure> er.. with the spray booth turned on
14:59 < nmz787> spray booth?
14:59 < kanzure> walk-in fume hood :P
14:59 < nmz787> we've got two exhaust fans going out the window
14:59 < nmz787> oOo
14:59 < nmz787> how the hell do you have that?
14:59 < kanzure> austin hackerspace started out in this other hackerspace in austin
14:59 < katsmeow-afk> is the question: how does one have two fans?
15:00 < kanzure> anyway.. the guy who ran this shop had a giant spray booth
15:00 < nmz787> fan right on exterior of laser cutter, then a exhaust tube, then another fan right at the window
15:01 < kanzure> hmm usually there's a tube hookup for the cutter itself?
15:01 < nmz787> yeah, thats where the first fan is
15:01 < katsmeow-afk> the tube is your pinch point, use a duct as big as possible
15:01 < nmz787> hmm
15:01 < kanzure> don't get motherfucking cancer
15:01 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, pyrenes and all that rot
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15:02 < nmz787> shit
15:04 < Mariu> kanzure, what do you think of that new Discovery Channel TV show with Adam Savage ? the one called Curiosity, mainly the episode called 'Can You Live Forever'
15:04 < kanzure> Mariu: haven't watched it
15:04 < Mariu> want link, or ... you will search it ?
15:04 < kanzure> i don't really watch television
15:04 < Mariu> gotcha
15:04 < Mariu> same here
15:04 < kanzure> ok. i recommend you just read aubrey's papers instead of discovery
15:04 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity
15:04 < Mariu> thanks kanzure !
15:05 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/Aubrey/
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18:17 < nmz787> pretty stupid that this gets funded but not openSpectrometer
18:17 < nmz787> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/680121538/air-quality-egg?ref=city
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18:28 < skorket> some of those tech projects on there are pretty hokey
18:29 < skorket> openSpectrometer should ask for some money from kickstarter
18:29 < yashgaroth> it's because people don't know what a spec does, compared to 'omg my airz'
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18:42 < nmz787> lame
18:42 < nmz787> whatev
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18:43 < delinquentme> kanzure, "editors picks" rss feed or no rss feeds .. GO!
18:44 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:45 < n_bentha> no rss feeds, plz
18:46 < n_bentha> just update the damn webpages
18:56 < delinquentme> n_bentha, CHECK
19:01 < delinquentme> SKRAPING SKAPING SKRAPING
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19:10 < uniqanomaly> fuckety fuck, and now gotta wait a week so 1st April shit will just die
19:12 < n_bentha> what april 1st shit?
19:12 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:12 < n_bentha> where?
19:12 < uniqanomaly> all of it, everywhere
19:13 < n_bentha> i have not noticed anything today
19:14 < n_bentha> then again, i didn't go outside todau
19:14 < n_bentha> it's sunday!
19:14 < uniqanomaly> I mean on the internet
19:14 < uniqanomaly> everywhere = internet
19:14 < uniqanomaly> capish?
19:14 < uniqanomaly> :D
19:15 < uniqanomaly> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17576745
19:15 < uniqanomaly> "The government will be able to monitor the calls, emails, texts and website visits of everyone in the UK under new legislation set to be announced soon."
19:15 < uniqanomaly> thinking about moving to UK and its not fucking funny even a little bit
19:16 < n_bentha> eh
19:16 < n_bentha> I hope the news about suuyki or whatever winning isn't fake?
19:17  * katsmeow-afk posted that url here earlier
19:19 < katsmeow-afk> hmm, http://www.aliexpress.com/  precisely cloned ebay
19:20 < n_bentha> that's more like alibaba, i don't think it's a clone, katsmeow-afk
19:20 < uniqanomaly> katsmeow-afk: no url on my log :>
19:21 < katsmeow-afk> [15:28] <katsmeow-afk> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17576745
19:21 < katsmeow-afk> it was in the wrong room, sorry
19:22 < katsmeow-afk> did you see  http://freenode.net/privacy_change.html  ?
19:23 < uniqanomaly> yeah right like its not happening already
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19:24 < uniqanomaly> moles are everywhere
19:24 < uniqanomaly> I mean undercovers
19:24 < katsmeow-afk> not the same as this url tho : http://freenode.net/group_privacy.shtml
19:24 < uniqanomaly> :D
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19:28 < kanzure> back in action
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20:15 < nmz787> https://picasaweb.google.com/109403794341975968814/MonkeyTestTubeRack#5726635079808098066
20:15 < kanzure> sup
20:16 < kanzure> cute..
20:16 < kanzure> novelty tube racks would be nice.. i'd totally buy a gundam test tube holder
20:16 < nmz787> lol
20:16 < nmz787> brb
20:16 < nmz787> bbl
20:16 < kanzure> like this except holding test tubes http://splashpage.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/061109_gundam2.jpg
20:17 < kanzure> http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/06/11/life-size-gundam-built-in-japan/
20:17 < kanzure> actual site: http://mainichi.jp/enta/mantan/graph/anime/20090609_2/index.html
20:17 < kanzure> gah it redirects
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20:22 < kanzure> delinquentme: how goes it
20:22 < delinquentme> building indexes mang
20:23 < delinquentme> building all the stuff that we need to properly index stuff
20:31 < delinquentme> I LOVE WINE WINE WINE WINE
20:31 < delinquentme> and DAFT PUNK PUNK PUNK PUNK
20:31 < delinquentme> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPbbVfTxEQY
20:31 < delinquentme> kanzure, you're gonna owe my girl a TYVMS for fooding me up and programming constantly
20:31 < delinquentme> FYI
20:33 < kanzure> delinquentme: that's becoming the case more and more frequently
20:33 < kanzure> for instance, i'm pretty sure nmz787's girl hates me
20:33 < kanzure> and fenn's probably does too
20:34 < delinquentme> ha
20:35 < kanzure> also: daft punk is my coding music of choice
20:36 < delinquentme> shes cool .. shell be out there w us :D
20:36 < delinquentme> convert her
20:36 < delinquentme> she still wants do die for some reason
20:36 < delinquentme> *shrug*
20:36 < kanzure> tell her she's selfish
20:36 < kanzure> for wanting to die.
20:36 < kanzure> or, wait..
20:36 < kanzure> no, that doesn't work
20:36 < kanzure> also it leads to no sex
20:36 < delinquentme> lol i've got my laptop up on the tv
20:36 < delinquentme> lololol
20:37 < delinquentme> and she certainly wont reach her utmost potential when dead.
20:37 < delinquentme> fer sheezy
20:55 < Mariu> later guys
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21:22 < ParahSailin> http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/5473/coral-reefs-have-herpes
21:22 < katsmeow-afk> oh great, now someone tells me this!
21:23 < katsmeow-afk> it's dated April 2
21:24 < n_bentha> herpes?!
21:24 < n_bentha> omg
21:27 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/1836/sunscreen-may-be-killing-corals
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21:58 < AdrianG> are all SSRIs known for memory loss?
22:00 < nmz787> is there any way to judge if hormonal birth control changes long-term psychology?
22:01 < nmz787> in extreme cases ppl have bad acne and/or horrible cramps during their period, and hormonal bc can decrease those
22:02 < nmz787> so is it worse to be teased for acne, or struggle through monthly pain sessions for life than to have hormones potentially change your neuronal structure in some other way
22:03 < kanzure> lots of girls complain about mental changes with hormonal birth control
22:03 < kanzure> or.. they are being lied to by people who don't want them to take it
22:06 < n_bentha> humans evolved for many years b4 hormonal b/c came about. i think it's best to fore-go the hormonal b/c.
22:07 < n_bentha> that shit can also give girls acne or make them gain weight
22:07 < katsmeow-afk> progesterone causes many changes, the physical changes alone can be enough to bitch about,, and progests are used to "chemically castrate" sex abusers
22:07 < n_bentha> basically it's a hormonal imbalance (puberty?). they probably just need to calm down, drink some tea, and do some exercises
22:08 < katsmeow-afk> i heard that and my fist thought was, oh right, now we have sex abusers with raging PMS too
22:09 < katsmeow-afk> n_bentha, and next time you want sex, ow about instead you calm down, drink some tea, and do some exercises?
22:11 < n_bentha> that's what i do!
22:12 < n_bentha> It makes the sex more intense when my gf does put out.
22:12 < katsmeow-afk> it has ALWAYS puzzled me that women take bc pills, and men get no anti-testosterone pills, and if you ask me, the teens need it
22:13 < ParahSailin> there is no "anti-testosterone"
22:13 < n_bentha> Heh. I just found out that pine pollen powder has a noticeable ammount of testosterone.
22:14 < katsmeow-afk> there are anti-testo pills, that attach to sites to block, and to inhibit production
22:14 < n_bentha> eh. Oxytocin = anti-testosterone?
22:16 < katsmeow-afk> What then besides estrogen can cause inhibition? DHT, which does not aromatize, has been extensively shown to cause inhibition of testosterone production. Androgen alone, then, is sufficient to cause inhibition.
22:16 < katsmeow-afk> Progesterone is another hormone that can cause inhibition, when used long-term.
22:16 < katsmeow-afk> http://thinksteroids.com/articles/inhibition-and-recovery-of-natural-testosterone-production/
22:17 < n_bentha> Oh you meant testosterone inhibitors, not 'anti-test..'? Oxytocin's psych effects are mostly opposite testosterone's.
22:17 < katsmeow-afk> Testosterone secretion can be decreased:
22:17 < katsmeow-afk> by inhibiting the secretion of LH by the administration of gonadorelin, GnRH, in a continuous way ( See “hypothalamic Hormone: gonadorelin”. ) or by GnRH antagonists
22:17 < katsmeow-afk> by inhibiting testosterone synthesis in testes. Among the inhibitors, one can quote ketoconazole, antifungal which, in large doses, inhibits testosterone synthesis.
22:18 < katsmeow-afk> Inhibition of conversion of testosterone into dihydrotestosterone: 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors
22:18 < katsmeow-afk> The inhibition of 5-alpha-steroid-reductase, present in certain organs such as prostate or skin, prevents the transformation of testosterone into dihydrotestosterone.
22:18 < katsmeow-afk> http://www.pharmacorama.com/en/Sections/Androgen_steroid_hormones_2.php
22:18 < katsmeow-afk> Androgens antagonists
22:18 < katsmeow-afk> Estrogens and progesterone have a low anti-androgenic effect, but there are more powerful antagonists like cyproterone, flutamide, nilutamide and bicalutamide.
22:21 < katsmeow-afk> nice article : http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/04/thinking-smarter-about-people-who-think-differently/
22:25 < n_bentha> "CDC report saying that one in 88 children is autistic" :O
22:25 < n_bentha> No wai!
22:26 < n_bentha> Idk if all the people now considered autistic are really autistic...Like how everybody now has a mental disorder...
22:26 < katsmeow-afk> maybe they are pinning "autism" on anyone not like them
22:26 < n_bentha> True.
22:28 < n_bentha> But for kids that are really autistic like rain-man, I'm glad they get some positive publicity and I hope it helps them lead a happier life.
22:28 < katsmeow-afk> like rainman? you do realise it's a wide spectrum?
22:30 < n_bentha> Sorry, I don't know any other famous people with autism. I'm not ignorant.
22:30 < katsmeow-afk> ah
22:30 < n_bentha> But as I said earlier. The spectrum might be too wide.
22:30 < katsmeow-afk> and the labeling too shallow
22:31 < katsmeow-afk> given the way society operates, i'd bet that anyone autistic who is fitting in and famous, will not have it written on their forehead
22:32 < n_bentha> Marty Balin (of jefferson airplane/starship) is apparently autistic. Maybe it was just the psychadelic drugs?
22:33 < katsmeow-afk> i dunno, tho i liked some of their music
22:34 < katsmeow-afk> too much mushroom soup can make one a vegetable, i have observed firsthand
22:34 < n_bentha> Yea, they were a 70's band, so that was my guess.
22:34 < katsmeow-afk> by mushroom in that context, i mean picked from cow patties in attempts to het wasted
22:34 < n_bentha> 60's-2008+*
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22:36 < katsmeow-afk> by cow patties in that context, i mean excrement, not off a bbq grill
22:36 < katsmeow-afk> by excre,, oh, nm
22:38 < katsmeow-afk> speaking of cows, http://duckduckgo.com/?q=cow+chutes+autism  <<== links to a famous person
22:38 < nmz787> n_bentha: my gf is from india, she says U.S. has way too many mental diseases...
22:39 < nmz787> n_bentha: i gave an autistic friend something offa cow patty before
22:39 < katsmeow-afk> usa *causes* too many mental diseases,, have you heard of Tea Party ?
22:39 < n_bentha> nmz787: too many mental diseases as in....too many people are f'd up, or too many mental diseases are thrown around like paper airplanes?
22:40 < n_bentha> also: that's cool. i was just saying maybe he (the jeffereson airplane guy) just thought differently because of his psychadelic experiences and ppl mislabled him as autistic?
22:40 < katsmeow-afk> no clue, never met him
22:41 < n_bentha> haha...silly tea party. tho ron paul has a nice foreign policy. ppl keep saying that's his only good point and that he wants to ruin everything else which is not quite right since he just don't want 'Federal' control--he wants to leave it up to the states to decide things.
22:41 < katsmeow-afk> maybe, but Gingrich belongs in a institution
22:41 < nmz787> paper airplanes
22:41 < n_bentha>  /end political n_bentha's input
22:42 < n_bentha> ah. yah...usa is retarded.
22:42 < nmz787> i guess its good for trying to help ppl, dialing in on what the exact prob is... but i think a shamanic/wholistic approach /may/ be more effective
22:42 < n_bentha> I think psychiatrists/ologists 'have to' give you a mental disorder label if they see you as a patient.
22:43 < nmz787> U.S. is too reductive IMO
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22:43 < katsmeow-afk> funny, i was talking to someone running a quicky store  while waiting on tire stores to open the next day, he was from Jamaica, and discovered he couldn't tolerate the usa and was going back to Jamaicaasap
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22:43 < nmz787> humans are too complex, we just don't understand them/us enough to be reductionist... at least I'm happy not being a guinea pig until we have a few hundred more years of science
22:44 < katsmeow-afk> i also was working a business as an employee, and the usa corp cold not get the business out of startup, so sold it to Japanese, by misrepresenting it like hell, and the Japanese closed it and now use the building as a warehouse
22:44 < nmz787> i say this as a person who's dealt with bioinformatics too... there's too much data to process as is, and we don't even have all the data (or know if we're looking at it the right way_
22:44 < nmz787> )
22:45 < nmz787> so you're saying U.S. is liar/shrewd?
22:46 < katsmeow-afk> as one who was in the QC, manufacturing, and efficency study depts there at one time or another, as well as documenting the inefficency of the usa worker at that site, it's no wonder the place folded
22:46 < skorket> nmz783, you don't believe kurzweil that by 2040-2060 or so that the singularity will have happened?
22:47 < nmz787> i don't follow kurzweil cuz my dad said he screwed over live musicians when he invented the synthesizer
22:47 < nmz787> and my dad is a musician
22:47 < nmz787> lol
22:47 < katsmeow-afk> for instance for 4 years QC wom said the equipment maint guys slept all nite while machines crashed, so i was asked to put computer monitorng on the machines, and make printouts,,, and the printouts got torn up else everyone would have been fired
22:47 < nmz787> thats not totally the reason, actually
22:48 < nmz787> i just never looked him up
22:48 < nmz787> but my dad did say that
22:48 < skorket> hmm
22:48 < nmz787> hah
22:48 < nmz787> so i dunno, i've heard he doesnt talk outta his ass tho
22:48 < katsmeow-afk> other people came out with moogs and theramins, not just Kurzweil
22:48 < yashgaroth> kurzweil's predictions are by far the most optimistic though
22:48 < skorket> forgetting who he is, he's just looking at the rate of progress...
22:49 < skorket> how it follows an exponential curve
22:49 < nmz787> in 1800s progress was termed a disease of the industrial revolution
22:49 < nmz787> sooo
22:49 < nmz787> opinions vary on if this sungularity is even ideal for everyone
22:49 < katsmeow-afk> for everyone? nope
22:50 < nmz787> that is if anyone follows that logic these days
22:50 < nmz787> tech is def overrated in a lot of cases
22:50 < nmz787> i lived in a tent in the mojave desert for 9 months when i was 18
22:50 < n_bentha> Yup.
22:50 < nmz787> best year of my life
22:50 < katsmeow-afk> tech could be used to solve a lot of problems, but it won't be
22:51 < katsmeow-afk> free energy to power free transport so more people could go live in tents somewhere would prolly help a lot of people who cannot get there now, but it won't happen
22:52 < n_bentha> Tech is used well in manufacturing, utilities management, and the military.
22:52 < katsmeow-afk> but not in playing dvd's in home theatres?
22:52 < n_bentha> I'd rather go to a theatre than the cinema anyway.
22:54 < katsmeow-afk> when i had that flat, and all the tire stores at that exit were closed, there was no tech to see if a tire store was open at nearby exits,, and i'd have thought a telephone would have been enough
22:55 < n_bentha> I wish payphones weren't phased out
22:56 < katsmeow-afk> i had a cellphone, but no store names or numbers,, and neither did anyone else who was open after 10pm
22:56 < n_bentha> I think they could have offered better rates or implemented a bus-card type system to make calls w/
22:56 < nmz787> last time i saw a pay phone being used looked like it was for sketchy purposes
22:57 < katsmeow-afk> a bus-card? you know most credit cards can be used to pay for calls?
22:57 < n_bentha> that sux. i got a platinum AAA membership, so i never worry about car troubles.
22:57 < n_bentha> yes katsmeow, but not in amerika where payphones don't exist.
22:57 < katsmeow-afk> AAA would not have helped, i was safe at an quicky store, and wasn't broke down, and no tire store was open
22:57 < n_bentha> and the creditcard fees are probably much to make calls cheap for phone companies
22:58 < n_bentha> AAA will tow you for free
22:58 < katsmeow-afk> the flat was on the dually axle, altho overweighted, the other tire held and  could drive
22:58 < katsmeow-afk> i did not need a tow
22:58 < katsmeow-afk> who said i needed a tow?
22:58 < n_bentha> OK! Sorry, i misunderstood.
23:00 < nmz787> well if you were overweighted, if you didn't have a trailer, it may have been safer to tow
23:00 < katsmeow-afk> did point out tho, i need to put cameras and such so i can see these events happen under the truck while i am driving it, ditto for the car,, i need more technology (applied properly)!!
23:00 < nmz787> was the bed empty? or were you hauling?
23:00 < katsmeow-afk> i was hauling 4 tons
23:00 < nmz787> :P
23:00 < nmz787> no towing that
23:00 < nmz787> well, no operator would like to put that on his truck
23:01 < katsmeow-afk> the *one* tire was overweighted when the othe one blewup
23:01 < nmz787> AAA doesnt tow motorcycles, thats kinda lame
23:01 < katsmeow-afk> on his truck, no way it would be put on a rollback
23:01 < n_bentha> that's bs
23:01 < n_bentha> so easy to tow a motorcycle
23:02 < katsmeow-afk> but they won't or legally cannot without the "proper" equpimnent
23:03 < n_bentha> 0_o
23:03  * katsmeow-afk goes away for a while
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23:35 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
23:38 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-207-0.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Mon Apr 02 00:00:17 2012