--- Log opened Fri Apr 06 00:00:23 2012
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00:08 < strangewarp> kanzure: I agree; in general it's an attention vortex, and all theory, no engineering
00:12 < strangewarp> Ahahaha
00:13 < strangewarp> One of the possible implications of this resimulation-related idea is that research into Friendly AI is effectively useless
00:13 < strangewarp> I love it
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05:27 < delinquentme> HOWDAH
05:27 < delinquentme> ALL
05:27 < delinquentme> WHATCHOO
05:27 < delinquentme> DEW
05:27 < delinquentme> in
05:39 < delinquentme> kanzure, where be u
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07:18 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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07:41 < delinquentme> HOWDAH
07:47 < delinquentme> ParahSailin_, you're a bio kid?
07:47 < delinquentme> i forgot what the specialty was
07:57 < ParahSailin_> molecular biology, cell culture mostly
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08:22 < kanzure> delinquentme: yes.. i'm around
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08:32 < kanzure> video
08:32 < kanzure> http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2012/04/06/writing-software-for-space-probes/
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08:32 < delinquentme> COOL
08:32 < delinquentme> but i need to go now
08:32 < delinquentme> ttyl
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08:38 < kanzure> hm. 中文Python.
08:44 < ParahSailin_> what about it?
08:44 < kanzure> didn't expect it.
08:45 < ParahSailin_> oh interesting, they translated the keywords
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09:18 < diginet> so let's say I have a cell with a gene that I want to transfect to another cell.  So I use restriction enyzmes to snip out the DNA I need, amplify it with PCR.  How does one reassemble the different fragments in the right order? Or am I misunderstanding the process
09:19 < kanzure> no you probably won't be able to use a restriction enzyme like that
09:20 < kanzure> there's probably no restriction site nearby
09:20 < ParahSailin_> first, restriction enzyme step is redundant
09:20 < kanzure> you want to PCR the gene out. so you need to go design yourself some good primers that target the gene in question.
09:20 < diginet> oooohhh, I see, okay that makes sense
09:21 < diginet> so just get primers soo that PCR can selectively target the area in question
09:22 < kanzure> yep.. then you will probably run it through a gel. once it's separated you will cut your gene out of the gel and run it through a gel extraction protocol.
09:22 < kanzure> ParahSailin_: well, i'm sure you would be better at explaining this
09:22 < diginet> okay, but let's say for instance my gene is 10k long.  Someone earlier said I would need around 10 primers or so.  I trust the nucleotides will bond with the primers and form a complete sequence?
09:23 < kanzure> 10 primers?
09:23 < diginet> Too many?
09:23 < ParahSailin_> no you need a single primer pair
09:23 < diginet> Oooh okay
09:23 < kanzure> one for the start
09:23 < diginet> (I probably misunderstood them)
09:23 < kanzure> one for the end
09:23 < diginet> ahhh right
09:23 < ParahSailin_> they were probably saying you'd need 10 primers to sequence it
09:23 < diginet> OOOH yes, that's it
09:23 < diginet> okay, this isn't as bad as I thought :P
09:24 < diginet> So, the gel is to filter out the gene, since I know how long (and thus how heavy) it will be?
09:25 < ParahSailin_> the gel is to purify your fragment yes
09:25 < kanzure> electrophoresis lets you separate dna by molecular weight
09:25 < diginet> yeah
09:26 < diginet> thanks guys
09:26 < kanzure> no problem spiderman
09:26 < diginet> hahaha :)
09:26 < diginet> ooh one more question, so let's say I need to add a marker, antibiotic resistance, or a promoter, how is that done?
09:27 < diginet> err, "such as. . . " in front of antibiotic
09:27 < kanzure> are you going to sequence the fragment from the gel extraction?
09:28 < ParahSailin_> you clone your fragment into a plasmid
09:31 < diginet> oh right
09:31 < diginet> kanzure, I found a spider silk gene which has already been fully sequenced, so I can skip that step
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09:32 < kanzure> ah right i remember
09:41 < ParahSailin_> no need to sequence anyway
09:41 < ParahSailin_> if you you have primers for the end, you can do whatever with it
09:41 < kanzure> well i was hoping to save him the plasmid manipulation steps
09:41 < kanzure> "just print out your plasmid"
09:44 < ParahSailin_> that will be nice
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09:50 < kanzure> http://www.fastcompany.com/1829762/ibm-charlie-schick
09:51 < kanzure> hrm.. isn't this that diybio guy who was doing fermentation?
09:51 < kanzure> http://diybio.org/2010/11/22/i-brew-therefore-i-am
09:51 < kanzure> that guy.
09:51 < kanzure> "is IBM's Worldwide Director of Marketing, Big Data, Health Care, and Life Sciences" alright then..
09:52 < diginet> I'm saying, I have the entire sequence (I'm switching to L. hesperus from N. clavipes, the former of which has had the entire MaSp1 and 2 genes sequenced)
09:52 < kanzure> eah i know
09:52 < kanzure> *yeah
09:52 < diginet> I was speaking to ParahSailin_, haha, sorry for not being clear
09:52 < diginet> so I can just design a primer for the end of it
09:53 < kanzure> if you have the sequence already you can probably just synthesize it for a few megabucks
09:53 < kanzure> or email the person who published the paper and ask if you could pay for a copy or two
09:55 < diginet> wouldn't getting the primers be cheaper? someone said some company was doing it for like $6, so $12 total?
09:55 < kanzure> yes but if you get primers you need to go find some cells to get the genome
09:56 < diginet> true, having black widows around, eeeh, not too fun
09:56 < diginet> for that matter, I could email one of the people who collected the C. darwini specimen, and ask for a swab, and then try to sequence that gene, lol
09:56 < diginet> except I don't know any of its sequence, so that might be rather hard
09:57 < kanzure> go look at the MaSp1 gene on ncbi and contact the person who submitted it - they probably have the gene isolated in a test tube somewhere that they could PCR and mail to you
09:57 < kanzure> second scenario: someone probably has genomic DNA for black widows. then you just ask them to ship you a copy.
09:58 < diginet> good idea, the paper was published in an open access journal, so maybe they're more DIY friendly?
10:00 < kanzure> not really
10:01 < kanzure> worst case scenario you might have to convince ParahSailin_ to receive something for you
10:01 < diginet> true
10:02 < diginet> because you know, I could be AN EVIL MAD SCIENTIST TRYING TO BREED AN ARMY OF MUTANT CHIMPANZEE SPIDER HYBRIDS TO DO MY BIDDING
10:02 < diginet> but that's not the case, definitely not
10:02 < diginet> I'm definitely not breeding super fast maturing primates with hyperintelligence
10:03 < kanzure> spiders would probably be the place to start to breed for interesting brains
10:03 < kanzure> insects are easier to handle than chimps
10:04 < kanzure> "Spiders are found worldwide on every continent except for Antarctica, and have become established in nearly every habitat with the exception of air and sea colonization."
10:04 < kanzure> ok guys. how do we get spiders to colonize the sky. this has to be done.
10:04 < kanzure> iirc some spiders shoot silk parachutes
10:04 < diginet> meh, if I were to do something insane, it would be somehow ressurect dinosaurs
10:05 < diginet> (caveat: I'm not deluded so as to believe that is remotely feasible)
10:05 < kanzure> oops spiders don't count as insects. my bad.
10:05 < diginet> actually, I'd rather have a pet dwarf mammoth
10:05 < diginet> they were about the size of a Great Dane iirc
10:06 < diginet> the latest known fossils of them are found in Weyland Island, Siberia
10:06 < diginet> I PROPOSE AN EXPEDITION
10:07 < kanzure> you could probably get spiders to colonize the sea surface if you get them to spin webs for rafts
10:07 < diginet> haha
10:08 < diginet> well, actually, there's a species of spider which builds silk submarines basically
10:08 < kanzure> for eggs?
10:11 < ParahSailin_> seqwright would sequence that gene for like 100 bucks anyway
10:14 < kanzure> "Spiderlings are known to survive without food travelling in air currents of jet streams for 25 days or longer."
10:14 < ParahSailin_> that word.. spiderlings.. gives me the creeps
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10:16 < kanzure> ah right i remember this.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyroneta_aquatica
10:18 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zvA8Ak7hY
10:18 < kanzure> skip ahead.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zvA8Ak7hY#t=120
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11:50 < delinquentme> " It talks about Hegelian dialects being the things that determine history" ... "They're sort of competing philosopies or competeing mean sets and you can look at modern history where its not so much genetics going to battle as a battle of mean structures ... " http://imgur.com/OEP9L
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11:56 < klafka> meme ?
11:58 < delinquentme> elon musk
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12:02 < klafka> wow
12:03 < klafka> he cofounded paypal, spacex and tesla motors
12:03 < klafka> geeeez
12:03 < klafka> guy does not fuck around
12:03 < kanzure> hey wait wait. you should totally know about elon already.
12:03 < kanzure> you know about peter thiel right?
12:04 < kanzure> most people saw elon when he made an appearance in iron man 2.
12:04 < ParahSailin_> musk got pretty good roi in like 3 years on spacex
12:04 < delinquentme> klafka, derr
12:04 < ParahSailin_> he put 100 million of his own money in, then nasa gave him 278 million grant
12:04 < delinquentme> lololol klafka u nub
12:04 < ParahSailin_> wish i could do that
12:04 < kanzure> ParahSailin_: you could always do the same stunt the xprize did... insurance fraud on a $10 mil prize
12:04 < delinquentme> ANWAYS anyone care to venture a guess as to what these hegelian dialects are about
12:05 < klafka> i know about peter thiel
12:05 < delinquentme> clearly its about how do you amass power / excercise influence
12:05 < delinquentme> kanzure, what?
12:05 < delinquentme> @ xprise comment
12:05 < klafka> don't even try to go to hegelian dialectics delinquentme
12:05 < klafka> that's a deep pit of annoyance
12:05 < klafka> hegel is incredibly opaque
12:06 < kanzure> delinquentme: xprize money was from an insurance company
12:06 < delinquentme> klafka, nedz TLDR
12:06 < delinquentme> was it!
12:06 < kanzure> the insurance companies insured against anyone winning
12:06 < kanzure> but they guys who setup xprize already had a winning entry
12:06 < delinquentme> who would ensure against that winning??
12:06 < delinquentme> thats silly is it not?
12:06 < delinquentme> and like anti-human-progress
12:06 < kanzure> insurane companies will insure all sorts of things
12:06 < delinquentme> Oh wait... yeap thats an insurance company
12:06 < delinquentme> joking aside .. wtf?
12:07 < kanzure> yep.. fucked up, isn't it
12:07 < klafka> delinquentme people make a big business about betting for or against anything
12:07 < klafka> particularly insurance companies
12:07 < klafka> that's part of  how the crash in '09 happened
12:07 < delinquentme> hmmmm
12:07 < klafka> actually that IS basically how it happened
12:07 < delinquentme> ok so hegel
12:08 < klafka>  i wish there was an indian restaurant near me
12:08 < klafka> i wonder if there is a coffeeshop in berkeley i can work and get indian food nearby
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12:24 < lichen> vaguely h+ related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4g60zB4Un4
12:25 < kanzure> what is it?
12:26 < delinquentme> Ok electronics kids: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/GP2D120XJ00F/425-2469-ND/738664?wt.z_cid=ref_octopart_dkc_buynow
12:26 < delinquentme> how do I figure out the resolution I can get off of that?
12:26 < lichen> ted talk from a fashion designer
12:26 < delinquentme> O_o
12:26 < lichen> though its more of her just spouting her resume
12:27 < delinquentme> log~del
12:27 < delinquentme> jk jk
12:30 < delinquentme> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=climbing-mount-immortality
12:30 < delinquentme> there u go
12:32 < lichen> That leaves us with the legacy narrative, of which Woody Allen quipped: "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve it by not dying."
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12:35 < delinquentme> lichen, what does?
12:36 < lichen> ?
12:36 < lichen> what does what
12:37 < delinquentme> "that leaves us with the legacy ... "
12:37 < delinquentme> the above mentioned "that " = ?
12:37 < lichen> oh, it was pulled from the article you linked
12:37 < lichen> i just liked the quote
12:37 < lichen> preceding it was "When the brain dies of injury, stroke, dementia or Alzhei­mer’s, the mind dies with it. No brain, no mind; no body, no soul."
13:01 < kanzure> "I have strong ethics and no morals and I am only out to serve myself and the enhancement of my own telomeres." jonathan is keeping it real on diybio
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13:07 < delinquentme> jcline?
13:07 < delinquentme> kanzure,
13:07 < delinquentme> lichen, ohhhh i havnt red it yet
13:08 < kanzure> jcvi might be interested in synthesizer
13:09 < delinquentme> ?
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13:09 < kanzure> j. craig venter institute
13:10 < delinquentme> ya awesome
13:10 < delinquentme> nmz7871, build build
13:10 < delinquentme> also distance sensing
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13:24 < delinquentme> <3
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13:28 < kanzure> "Is any of this confidential, or may I forward this to Craig Venter?"
13:29 < nmz7871> ?
13:30 < ParahSailin_> dont let it get patent encumbered is my warning
13:31 < ParahSailin_> actually never mind, if they do, molon labe!
13:32 < kanzure> nmz7871: i have a transhumanist buddy at jcvi
13:32 < kanzure> he asked me to explain in an email what i'm up to
13:32 < kanzure> because jcvi had some guest speaker today who was complaining about synthesis
13:37 < nmz7871> ahh
13:59 < kanzure> hmm weird they have a uservoices account
13:59 < kanzure> http://jcvi.uservoice.com/forums/27749-cloud-computing
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14:17 < kanzure> yashgaroth: today we are making fun of klafka as a group
14:17 < yashgaroth> haha I've been catching up on the logs
14:21 < kanzure> what happened to randallgordon, elmom, kristianpaul, cryptoquick, davemenn1nger, or parolang
14:21 < klafka> kwooh
14:23 < jrayhawk> haha "means"
14:23 < jrayhawk> it's awesome when journalists know less about the communication of ideas than their subjects
14:24 < jrayhawk> (re: that elon musk article)
14:27 < kanzure> fa-18 hornet crash http://i.imgur.com/arcto.jpg
14:28 < katsmeow-afk> something disconcerting about that
14:29 < katsmeow-afk> ah, the different positions of the engines' turkey feathers
14:29 < kanzure> well, presumably this is not in factory condition
14:31 < jrayhawk> "12:07 < klafka> particularly insurance companies" "12:07 < klafka> actually that IS basically how it happened" no, the essential factor was fraudulant credit ratings standards (A-rated CDO) due to the foxes guarding the henhouse. The CDS market and the low interest rates certainly made it worse, but it still would've otherwise happened.
14:31 < jrayhawk> The CDS bubble has not actually burst, and it would be complete fucking chaos if it did.
14:31 < jrayhawk> It would probably be the end of most first world currencies.
14:32 < katsmeow-afk> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/colink/Moose%20Jaw%202008/P7150006.jpg  <<== closeup of the turkeyfeathers on the F-18 tail, both engines should be set the same, but they aren't  in the crash pic
14:33 < jrayhawk> "By the end of 2007, the outstanding CDS amount was $62.2 trillion, falling to $26.3 trillion by mid-year 2010 but reportedly $25.5 trillion in early 2012."
14:33 < jrayhawk> the housing market size, by comparison, is adorable.
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14:34 < jrayhawk> Actually, the CDS bubble did burst in Greece.
14:37 < jrayhawk> it's nice to know that the CDS market is less than the worldwide annual GDP, now, though.
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14:45 < kanzure> "The Bank for International Settlements estimates that outstanding derivatives total $708 trillion"
14:45 < jrayhawk> aaaaaaaaa
14:45 < kanzure> from http://www.bis.org/publ/otc_hy1111.pdf
14:47 < kanzure> "in trillions of US dollars" nice. i wish this is how all of my graphs would be labelled.
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14:47 < kristianpaul> hola :)
14:48 < kanzure> hello! welcome back.
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14:48 < kanzure> what.
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14:50 < fenn> if it was too micro it wouldn't blend
14:50 < fenn> gah
14:51 < kristianpaul> thanks kanzure
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14:54 < kristianpaul>  what happened to kristianpaul i bought a milkymist and nanonote one and finished building the reprap
14:54 < fenn> i'd prefer buying actual components and assembling than getting some random possibly not-working xy table on ebay
14:54 < fenn> also, makes it easier to document
14:54 < kristianpaul> then start learning about gps-gnss
14:55 < kristianpaul> some C, verilog SoC design..
14:55 < kanzure> fenn: what are your thoughts on a one-off machine design, or something that others might be able to use (something that could be sold as a kit if someone was inclined to do such a thing)
14:56 < kristianpaul> still not start moding the reprap as a chemical sintesizer...
14:56 < kristianpaul> but i will nead home made soap at some point..
15:05 < kanzure> http://dvice.com/archives/2012/02/it-would-cost-8.php
15:05 < kanzure> "It would cost $852 quadrillion dollars to build a real Death Star"
15:05 < kanzure> i bet i could do it for 1/852 that cost
15:06 < kanzure> "The Earth's iron supply is capable of building 2 billion Death Stars" it must be done
15:15 < jrayhawk> asteroid mining would be a lot more practical
15:15 < JayDugger> Only in ##hplusroadmap would the sentence "asteroid mining would be a lot more practical" ever appear. :)
15:16 < jrayhawk> oh god what have i become
15:17 < JayDugger> My future neighbor, as measured by
15:17 < JayDugger> delta-v.
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15:41 < delinquentme> ok kanzure heres what im thinking on the journals
15:41 < delinquentme> locate urls and names for all the research journals
15:41 < kanzure> ok
15:41 < delinquentme> publishers and urls rather
15:42 < delinquentme> then the difficult bit is locating the index for each of the journals
15:42 < delinquentme> so out source that
15:42 < kanzure> why outsource it
15:42 < kanzure> i mean, are you having trouble?
15:43 < delinquentme> obscene # of man hours
15:43 < delinquentme> like youve got 21 journals listed
15:43 < delinquentme> there are thousands
15:44 < kanzure> 21 publishers.
15:44 < delinquentme> publishers
15:44 < delinquentme> correct
15:44 < kanzure> ok so 2 hours per scraper per publisher
15:44 < kanzure> 40 hours
15:44 < delinquentme> im 1/3rd of the way through that
15:46 < uniqanomaly> delinquentme: put code on github, link to it at hackernews reddit and else, other humanz will join your efforts
15:46 < uniqanomaly> :P
15:47 < kanzure> i'd rather not do that yet since the architecture isn't stable yet
15:47 < delinquentme> thats not a bad idea
15:47 < delinquentme> and i'd also get crits on my code
15:47 < kanzure> for instance, we haven't set up mongo yet
15:47 < kanzure> if you want criticism i will give you mountains of it
15:47 < uniqanomaly> :D
15:47 < kanzure> let's wait until we set up mongo and the adapter framework ok?
15:48 < kanzure> then we can just plug them in
15:48 < kanzure> and i'll write the rest in <40 hours
15:48 < delinquentme> i can work w that
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15:48 < delinquentme> so what about the class structure of publishers / journals / issues / volumes
15:48 < kanzure> what about it.
15:48 < kanzure> apparently i have to do that too
15:48 < delinquentme> so journals
15:48 < AdrianG> whats the best GTD application
15:49 < kanzure> AdrianG: a personal assistant
15:49 < delinquentme> are kind of the nugget we're working with
15:49 < AdrianG> kanzure: ok an affordable version
15:49 < delinquentme> AdrianG, i liked RTM
15:49 < kanzure> not really. papers..
15:49 < delinquentme> but id prob go with evarnote
15:49 < kanzure> AdrianG: you can get assistants that charge anywhere from $1/hour to $2/hour..
15:49 < kanzure> if a GTD app means $x in value i am pretty sure it will be x>2/hour
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15:50 < delinquentme> in the context of the scraper
15:50 < delinquentme> ?
15:50 < AdrianG> i dont want to use an assistant.
15:50 < AdrianG> i want to use my head.
15:50 < delinquentme> AdrianG, rememberthemilk.com
15:50 < kanzure> delinquentme: the scrapers are getting bibtex for each paper in each journal
15:50 < delinquentme> also astrid
15:51 < delinquentme> my scrapers right now are simply creating json entries of the indexes of all these journals
15:51 < delinquentme> not everyone has bibtex downloadable citations
15:51 < kanzure> "indexes" means "papers"
15:51 < kanzure> yes but everyone has the same information that could be represented as bibtex
15:51 < kanzure> i don't care if it is bibtex or not as long as the same metadata is parsed correctly
15:51 < delinquentme> indexes means Science journal of the shiskabob Volumes 1-24 years 2001-2012 issues XY
15:52 < kanzure> index means "Paper 1, title, authors, in journal shiskabob volume 1, issue 1, 2001"
15:52 < kanzure> with the other per-paper metadata
15:52 < kanzure> but journal-existence-metadata is also useful
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15:55 < kanzure> delinquentme: i'll write up the framework real quick. give me an hour.
15:55 < kanzure> if you send me over your code, i'll make sure it works with it
15:56 < delinquentme> so i dont need that
15:56 < delinquentme> explicitly
15:56 < delinquentme> what i need
15:56 < delinquentme> is you to take the code sample i sent along and write it how you'd write it
15:56 < delinquentme> that is what i need
15:56 < kanzure> yeah i know.
15:56 < kanzure> but you said you have 10 other scrapers?
15:58 < fenn> AdrianG: emacs org mode
15:58 < delinquentme> correct
15:59 < delinquentme> and I want to write with classes and properly format them
15:59 < AdrianG> fenn: uve got to be kidding me
16:00 < fenn> do you know what org mode is?
16:00 < kanzure> delinquentme: yes i know. give me an hour.
16:00 < delinquentme> kk
16:02 < nmz787> classes? who uses those anymore
16:03 < nmz787> should all the scraped data be going into postgres or sqllite?
16:03 < kanzure> well
16:03 < kanzure> right now it's going into flatfiles
16:04 < kanzure> i think mongodb is a good solution for this
16:04 < kanzure> i'd prefer sqlite over postgresql
16:04 < kanzure> shuttup i'm coding :P
16:04 < kanzure> part of the reason for mongodb is that some publishers/entities have different schemas and this isn't entirely doable with sqlite without creating separate models all the time or new columns or something silly
16:05 < fenn> data regularity is more important than the exact storage mechanism
16:05 < fenn> you will probably need some intermediate steps
16:05 < kanzure> yes but i don't want to add a special new column to a db just because some publisher has an extra random hash i need to store
16:05 < kanzure> although.. sqlite would win me minimalism points
16:06 < fenn> nmz787: so i'm thinking of going with something like this, it seems more reproducible and i know exactly what i'm getting: http://www.amazon.com/12mm-Guideway-System-Linear-Motion/dp/B002BBJFA2
16:06 < fenn> instead of surplus junk
16:09 < fenn> wish ceramic weren't so expensive
16:09 < fenn> i guess it doesnt matter for 1 micron accuracy
16:10 < nmz787> is there a better place to get this type of thing other than amazon?
16:10 < fenn> i'm looking at vxb.com
16:11 < fenn> there are possibly other sites, just having problems figuring out the correct keyword
16:11 < fenn> i thought this was called "lab rail" but apparently that doesn't work
16:11 < nmz787> so we'd need 4 of these, and 2 screws?
16:11 < nmz787> slide rail?
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16:12 < fenn> probably want to chop it in half, so 2 of them, and 2 more bearing blocks (triangular support not square)
16:12 < fenn> and 2 screws, and motors, and motor mounts, and bearing blocks, and a big ol plate to bolt it all to
16:13 < nmz787> hmm, well the linear stages new were, what, $2.5k?
16:13 < fenn> i'm thinking either a granite surface plate from enco, or one of those optics breadboards
16:13 < nmz787> so that's the price we need to beat
16:14 < fenn> i'm sure it will be less than $1k
16:15 < nmz787> it would be nice to buy something off the shelf, so we don't have to invest in time and research for the gantry
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16:15 < fenn> yeah, it might be possible to just get a zen mill
16:16 < nmz787> that v90 fireball is 5080 microns per turn
16:16 < fenn> you'd have to get new screws of course
16:16 < nmz787> wikipedia says steppers are usually 200 steps per rev
16:16 < nmz787> so that's ~25 microns per full step
16:17 < nmz787> bigger than i'd like, but it could work
16:17 < nmz787> unless the screw is too tight as you've mentioned
16:17 < nmz787> why get new screws, too tight?
16:17 < nmz787> (the anti-backlash nut)
16:18 < fenn> you can rely on at least half-steps
16:18 < fenn> "why get new screws"?
16:18 < nmz787> it wouldn't be too hard to get an interferometer on there, but i don't know if vibration would kill things
16:18 < fenn> i dont like the design of the zen mill though; it's basically just a bunch of plastic with wimpy rods and non-kinematic bearings
16:19 < nmz787> if vibes were too much, we'd have to sample pretty fast and do some DSP on the output
16:19 < fenn> if there's vibration, fix the vibration
16:19 < fenn> because that will fuck with the channel smoothness too
16:20 < fenn> active positioning (fast tool servo) is still high magick
16:20 < fenn> i'd like to learn how to do that, but not on this project
16:22 < delinquentme> zen mill?
16:23 < uniqanomaly> guys you think there is rebound effect with tDCS?
16:24 < uniqanomaly> like in sudden discontinuation
16:24 < delinquentme> uniqanomaly, id bet that the rebound is comparable to the focus gains
16:25 < delinquentme> if there was any
16:25 < fenn> yes, you'll turn into a hardcore wireheading junky
16:25 < delinquentme> is say highly unlikely that it would be worse
16:25 < uniqanomaly> theoretically of course\
16:25 < delinquentme> much worse
16:25 < nmz787> the noise on alibaba searching for "small laser cutter" is annoying
16:25 < uniqanomaly> I mean after using it 24/7 for week or so
16:26 < uniqanomaly> delinquentme: problem with drugs is you get much worse after discontinuation
16:26 < uniqanomaly> antidepressants, benzo or other stuff
16:26 < delinquentme> uniqanomaly, i had no idea
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16:27 < delinquentme> :P
16:27 < delinquentme> < goo dkid
16:27 < delinquentme> NOOO THE PLANE LEFT
16:27 < uniqanomaly> you get soo mach worse that it was before you started taking 'em
16:27 < uniqanomaly> for curing whatever you need to cure
16:27 < uniqanomaly> :D
16:27 < fenn> please justify that statement
16:27 < nmz787> fenn: "screw laser cutter" returns some stuff mentioning ball screw
16:27 < fenn> yes ball screws would be good
16:28  * delinquentme keeps it professional
16:28 < fenn> since this is an optics thing, we can get away with a spring to eliminate backlash, instead of anti-backlash nuts
16:30 < fenn> i don't get why aluminum extrusion rails are so expensive
16:31 < nmz787> yeah
16:31 < delinquentme> fenn, how does one use a spring to eliminate backlash?
16:31 < nmz787> especially when cdroms, scanners, commodity shit has what we need
16:31 < katsmeow-afk> you push the piece aganst the nut, maintaining contact at all times
16:31 < delinquentme> fenn, specific reason you're using alu? not just polished steel?
16:32 < delinquentme> katsmeow-afk, do you have a diagram?
16:32 < fenn> scanners is not a bad idea. they usually use plain bearings though, which will introduce slop
16:32 < katsmeow-afk> steel rusts, al is light and available
16:32 < katsmeow-afk> a diagram of a spring? umm, no
16:32 < fenn> delinquentme: i'd rather the whole system be made from materials with similar coefficient of thermal expansion
16:33 < fenn> keeps it from warping out of shape
16:33 < delinquentme> nice idea.. but how much heat do you think will be transferred
16:33 < delinquentme> nm
16:33 < fenn> nmz787: we will probably end up using your interferometer idea to check the accuracy of the table
16:34 < fenn> just for ambient temperature change
16:34 < nmz787> what about doing crazy math on the CAD file, to produce what we want with just a CDROM... i.e. 1 axis plus a rotating disc of PDMS
16:34 < nmz787> well, it would be raster then, not vector
16:35 < nmz787> nvrmind
16:35 < nmz787> alibaba doesn't give me anything for "cdrom parts"
16:35 < fenn> gee i wonder why
16:36 < uniqanomaly> guys, what do you think about creating h+ village or something
16:36 < fenn> i'd prefer a borg encampment
16:36 < fenn> not a ren faire :P
16:37 < uniqanomaly> perhaps by populating a dying city or just translocating to some not dying
16:37 < fenn> society for creative futurism
16:37 < uniqanomaly> one
16:38 < katsmeow-afk> anachronism != past , sca could be taken over for future
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16:38 < nmz787> bbl
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16:38 < nmz787> seems we just need to suck it up and start a parts list
16:39 < fenn> yeah i'm doing that, just shopping around first
16:40 < nmz787> it would be nice to find the rails and screws that are appropriate, and worry about the base, etc later... that way we can start with an optics breadboard, then if we want to sell them as kits, just machine the right mounting board out of aluminum later
16:40 < nmz787> have you done this before, or are you just as naive when it comes to these rails and things as me?
16:40 < delinquentme> misumi is a decent parts distributor
16:41 < delinquentme> lots of metric
16:41 < nmz787> should i start joining CNC forums and posting that we need light-duty mini gantry?
16:45 < fenn> no
16:45 < fenn> CNC people don't know anything about precision
16:46 < fenn> you could talk to toastydeath but he'll probably just start going on and on about air bearings
16:46 < fenn> i've dome some projects like this but not with an eye for precision
16:48 < fenn> hmm
16:48 < fenn> "Mic 6 I have seen was cast Al. Blanchard ground, guaranteed to be .001 flat. It really sucks to cut. It doesn't form nice chips...pretty gummy. It's lacking the alloying agents of it's cousins. The one advantage to Mic 6.......it's extremeley stable. When a larger pattern is cut out of a sheet it usually stays relatively flat."
16:49 < nmz787> maglev this shit instead of screws
16:50 < fenn> possible but spend a lot more on electronics to control linear motors
16:52 < fenn> maybe the granite isn't really necessary and can just bolt on mass in the form of lead weights
16:52 < nmz787> http://www.motiontek.ca/
16:53 < nmz787> if the gantry is well secured to the table... would they move together?
16:53 < fenn> what table
16:54 < fenn> vxb is about half the price of motiontek.ca
16:54 < fenn> at least for round rail
16:55 < nmz787> http://www.mydiycnc.com/catalog/2
16:56 < nmz787> table==base of the cutter
16:57 < nmz787> vxb looks decent
16:57 < nmz787> how many mm thick do you think the rods need to be
16:57 < nmz787> ?
16:58 < nmz787> seems like the 6mm or 1/4" would suffice
16:59 < nmz787> doesn't look like they have trucks/bearings with mounts for the 6mm rails
16:59 < fenn> assuming the plate provides the stiffness, small is fine
16:59 < fenn> there are 8mm trucks and 12mm trucks
16:59 < nmz787> i see that
17:00 < nmz787> these prices seem pretty reasonable
17:00 < nmz787> seems like we could have the gantry, minus motors for <~$100
17:01 < fenn> i don't see any support rail for 8mm so i'm thinking of going with 12mm
17:01 < fenn> no you need support rail
17:01 < fenn> so more like $250
17:01 < nmz787> http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/8mmLinearMotionSystems/Kit8264
17:01 < nmz787> why not those with the straight rods?
17:02 < fenn> what the rods are just going to dangle in the air? no thanks
17:02 < nmz787> hmm?
17:02 < nmz787> supported at each end
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17:02 < fenn> maybe i've been corrupted by the cnc gods but i can't stand it when people make freely suspended bearings like that
17:03 < fenn> any tiny bit of force and the whole thing wobbles around
17:03 < nmz787> oh, why not? its moving a laser fiber or mirror and some lenses
17:03 < nmz787> you think it will sag?
17:03 < fenn> more worried about vibration
17:04 < fenn> steel has poor damping
17:05 < fenn> my first cnc gantry was freely suspended rods, let's just say i was surprised at how much motion was possible with little force
17:05 < nmz787> 44"inch support rod, cut in 3 would be long enough... we'd still need 2 though
17:05 < nmz787> there's $140
17:05 < fenn> yeah i think 22" per axis would be big enough
17:06 < fenn> plus bearings, plus bearing blocks, plus steppers, plus leadscrews and nuts and misc hardware
17:06 < nmz787> well if we're thinking 6" per side of the chip
17:06 < nmz787> 22" inches is still overkill
17:06 < fenn> yeah
17:07 < nmz787> what about warping if we cut it
17:07 < fenn> could get one 78" and cut into 4
17:07 < fenn> put wet rags on the rail before cutting
17:07 < nmz787> cut it slowwwllylyyy
17:07 < fenn> s/before/during/
17:08 < fenn> i dont think the rail is hardened so can use bandsaw, which will reduce warping to negligible
17:09 < nmz787> we can also email vxb to see if they can special order the 6mm support rod
17:09 < nmz787> i really don't think we need so much material
17:11 < nmz787> is this the style  we need truck-wise: http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/12mmLinearMotionSystems/kit990
17:12 < nmz787> alright sent an email to vxb asking if they can get those components in smaller sizes
17:12 < nmz787> bbl, signing off, will check logs
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17:31 < fenn> i am thinking about going with 3/8-40 acme leadscrews from mcmaster instead of 1/4 (can't find 1/4 anyway)
17:32 < fenn> then i can machine regular 1/4-20 threads and bearing mounts on the end
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17:47 < fenn> grr i dont see why it should be so difficult to buy a flexture for mounting a nut to a platform
17:49 < fenn> aw jesus christ the first result for "nut flexture" is my roommate (practically) http://www.mad-engineer.com/engineering/pet-projects/3-axis-cnc-mill/attachment/sony-dsc-9/
17:51 < jrayhawk> gross
17:55 < klafka> Of course, people commit suicide all the time. Some people?s lives are so miserable that death is a step up. And then there are others who?ve been bitten by the Heaven meme, are somehow convinced that they?re going to go to Space Disneyland when they die ; and some of those think the fastest way to get there is to take as many heathens with them when they check out. That might be your early-adopter demographic for the Sin
17:55 < klafka> gularity.
17:55 < klafka> http://www.actusf.com/spip/Interview-Peter-Watts-VO-2012.html
17:55 < klafka> pretty interesting
17:57 < delinquentme> lol
17:57 < fenn> "That might be your early-adopter demographic for the Singularity." i'm pretty sure the author and i disagree on what "the singularity" means
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18:00 < fenn> this is cute http://www.haydonkerk.com/LinearActuatorProducts/LinearRailsGuidesSplines/ScrewRailLinearActuators/tabid/219/Default.aspx
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18:28 < kanzure> gahh
18:28 < kanzure> someone should create a sciencedirect rss aggregator so that we can get around their dumb login-to-get-rss thing
18:28 < kanzure> i once subscribed to all of their feeds at once heh
18:29 < kanzure> delinquentme: ok give me a little bit more time
18:29 < delinquentme> hahaha
18:29 < delinquentme> sure
18:30 < delinquentme> lemme locate a few of these weird journals which have crappy code
18:30 < delinquentme> well have to figure out a way to work around their tags
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18:33 < kanzure> jrayhawk: be nice
18:34 < nmz787> fenn: any progress?
18:35 < kanzure> delinquentme: no i mean, i have something working, but give me a little bit more time
18:35 < delinquentme> fenn, FYI #seattlerobotics and #robotics
18:36 < delinquentme> and with mech stuff its all about what you call it
18:36 < delinquentme> linear string encoder vrs string pot
18:36 < delinquentme> kanzure, should I interrupt you and give you more to chew on or do you want to finish what you're doing?
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18:37 < kanzure> delinquentme: sure give me what you have
18:38 < delinquentme> kanz
18:38 < delinquentme> why do i feel like im gonna get fucked in the ass
18:38 < kanzure> haha because i just wrote a shitload of python
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18:38 < kanzure> and you're going to hate me for that
18:38 < delinquentme> oh well yeah
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18:38 < kanzure> you'll like it
18:38 < delinquentme> for why?
18:39 < kanzure> because i'm using some old code too (pyscholar, etc..)
18:39 < delinquentme> so
18:40 < delinquentme> do we port these together?
18:40 < kanzure> yeah i'll rewrite your stuff real fast
18:40 < delinquentme> fack man
18:40 < kanzure> and
18:40 < kanzure> i'll add my sciencedirect scraper
18:40 < kanzure> that we talked about from february
18:40 < kanzure> i don't think you've seen that yet?
18:40 < delinquentme> specifically im trying to write more in ruby
18:41 < delinquentme> so that causes issues
18:41 < kanzure> i don't think so. we can set some scrapers to run independently as long as they have the same input/output.
18:41 < kanzure> doesn't matter
18:42 < kanzure> "volume = year, issue = sequence" ?
18:43 < delinquentme> true
18:43 < delinquentme> i dont follow on volume = year
18:43 < delinquentme> or the other
18:44 < kanzure> nevermind i have a better idea
18:45 < kanzure> i thought the ordering would matter but it doesn't.
18:49  * fenn pokes CIA-92 
18:49 < fenn> we should set that up with diyhpluswiki
18:50 < kanzure> use the skdb.git post-receive-hook that controls gnusha
18:50 < kanzure> oh i guess i have to do that
18:51 < delinquentme> true.eql? true # => true
18:51 < delinquentme> niftah
18:52 < kanzure> fenn: try now.. push up some crap, see if it works, then git reset --HARD head^ and push -f
18:53 < kanzure> oh it uses /home/gnusha/.irssi/socket
18:53 < kanzure> jrayhawk: what?
18:54 < delinquentme> or git log
18:54 < delinquentme> and get the hash that you want just incase
18:54 < delinquentme> but theres always reflog!
18:55 < kanzure> the post-receive hook on the server won't do anything if you push a commit it already has
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19:04 < fenn> remote: 2012/04/06 19:03:39 socat[30723] E connect(3, AF=1 "/home/gnusha/.irssi/socket", 28): No such file or directory
19:05 < kanzure> yeah i'm not sure what jrayhawk is thinking :(
19:05 < kanzure> i've disabled the hook for now
19:06 < fenn> we could probably make 2 of these for about the same cost, since the rail and leadscrew comes in 6 foot lengths
19:06 < nmz787> lol
19:06 < nmz787> sounds like it is more prone to bending during shipping
19:06 < nmz787> if so long
19:07 < fenn> maybe
19:07 < nmz787> the short sections may get cut right after they're machined
19:07 < fenn> just don't order a bunch of other long stuff in the same shipment
19:07 < fenn> they will put it in a cardboard tube
19:10 < nmz787> anyone ever hear if fish drugs are purified by HPLC, or just crude recrystalisation?
19:11 < fenn> like tetracycline?
19:12 < kanzure> fenn: is this it?
19:12 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/projects/laser_etcher
19:12 < kanzure> nmz787: ^
19:12 < nmz787> yeah, antibiotics, antifungals, antiprotozoans
19:12 < nmz787> all that shyt
19:12 < nmz787> gah
19:13 < nmz787> how do i see the real wiki?
19:13 < nmz787> i.e. gui
19:13 < kanzure> the gui doesn't have anything that's not on http://diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=94d3316e390e5cf5c4769d43a1dced7abe525755
19:13 < nmz787> fenn: why such thick screw?
19:13 < nmz787> i think we should keep the mass low
19:13 < kanzure> you can clone the repo tho... git clone git://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki.git
19:14 < nmz787> i dont want to use git
19:14 < nmz787> i hate revision control
19:14 < kanzure> a wiki uses revision control
19:14 < nmz787> yeah
19:14 < nmz787> but its easier to just click edit
19:14 < kanzure> ok just making sure that connection was made :P
19:14 < kanzure> ah. not this wiki! haha
19:14 < kanzure> actually.. wait
19:14 < nmz787> grrr
19:14 < kanzure> nmz787: https://secure.diyhpl.us/write/diyhpluswiki/ikiwiki.cgi?page=projects/laser_etcher&do=edit
19:15 < kanzure> "Error: projects/laser_etcher is not an editable page"
19:15 < nmz787> chrome wont let me pass
19:15 < charlieschwabach> so I have been lurking and just went through logs..
19:15 < fenn> you probably have to rename it to .mdwn or .txt
19:15 < charlieschwabach> this might be worth looking into as a bearing: http://makerslide.com/
19:15 < fenn> charlieschwabach: i refuse to use anything with maker in the name
19:15 < kanzure> charlieschwabach: isn't that the buildlog person
19:16 < charlieschwabach> yes, it is the build log guy
19:16 < charlieschwabach> haha @maker in the name
19:16 < nmz787> charlesschwabach: that looks too crude
19:16 < fenn> also i think that's a retarded idea
19:17 < kanzure> nmz787: well. maybe you can convince fenn to use google docs or piratepad
19:17 < charlieschwabach> yeah, he uses it for a laser cutter, but I'm sure not w/ the accuracy you guys are looking for
19:17 < nmz787> kanzure: with pidgin is there a way to easily click on someones name to have it pasted into the messagebox?
19:17 < nmz787> google is decent
19:17 < fenn> charlieschwabach: you can just lay some round rod into the grooves in a standard t-slot extrusion
19:17 < delinquentme> nmz787, fenn if you guys have people @ universites you like me to contact for tools etc let me know
19:17 < delinquentme> kanzure,  ^
19:17 < fenn> then the rod is hardened, unlike aluminum extrusion
19:17 < nmz787> cool
19:17 < kanzure> we're looking for 1 micron resolution
19:17 < charlieschwabach> i would think this is more precise than that would be?
19:17 < kanzure> nmz787: i don't know what you just asked
19:18 < fenn> charlieschwabach: why would it be more precise? extrusion is extrusion
19:18 < nmz787> kanzure: i just typed your name, how do i make that faster?
19:18 < fenn> k<tab>
19:18 < charlieschwabach> yeah but if you just put a rod in the groove of an extrusion, it's still extrusion
19:19 < nmz787> fenn: i'm in pidgin
19:19 < kanzure> should still work in pidgin
19:19 < nmz787> ooo
19:19 < nmz787> then just copy-paste?
19:19 < kanzure> er you should be able to type k<tab> and get the name each time
19:19 < fenn> no need to copy paste, tab completion should work
19:20 < kanzure> maybe tab completion doesn't work in pidgin?
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19:20 < nmz787> ahh
19:20 < nmz787> got it
19:20 < nmz787> thx
19:20 < kanzure> fenn: how about piratepad
19:20 < nmz787> it was showing the list of ppl with k as first letter in msg window
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19:21 < nmz787> is that any better than google?
19:21 < fenn> i've had this whole argument many times with alex graveley (of hackpad.com)
19:21 < nmz787> we're at the mercy of their servers existing
19:21 < nmz787> either way
19:22 < nmz787> http://piratepad.net/Ji4MXCLtUX
19:22 < kanzure> nmz787: we'll just add it to the git repo anyway ;)
19:22 < kanzure> but for real-time collab i think piratepad is ok
19:23 < kanzure> delinquentme: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/ezproxy.py
19:23 < kanzure> delinquentme: plz check the Paper model in particular.. it's not finished
19:23 < kanzure> delinquentme: also, i haven't written the scraper infrastructure part yet
19:23 < delinquentme> ~ 1 hr
19:24 < kanzure> yeah yeah sorry.
19:24 < kanzure> took me 2... eat me
19:25 < delinquentme> nahaha haha
19:25 < delinquentme> i mean im messing w threads
19:25 < delinquentme> so im gonna be like 1 hr
19:25 < fenn> is there some way to get a diff between revisions of piratepad?
19:26 < fenn> otherwise merging is going to be a pain
19:26 < fenn> also why can't these online collaboration tools just use version control, wtf seriously wtf
19:26 < kanzure> what? i thought that's what piratepad did.. they do per-keystroke versioning?
19:26 < fenn> yes, but no way to export the version control anyway
19:27 < kanzure> at least you can dump the final diff
19:27 < fenn> i can save two text files and diff them, if that's what you mean
19:28 < nmz787> why save the diff?
19:28 < nmz787> if you just had a mediawiki installation.....
19:28 < nmz787> .......
19:29 < kanzure> do you want mediawiki?
19:29 < fenn> mediawiki only works for editing simple text and pictures
19:29 < kanzure> fenn: hush
19:29 < fenn> what can i say, i'm a command line zealot
19:30 < nmz787> right
19:30 < nmz787> we're doing a shopping list
19:31 < nmz787> mediawiki would be preferred i think
19:31 < nmz787> (by me)
19:31 < kanzure> actually, google docs (spreadsheets) would be better?
19:31 < kanzure> a shopping list is just a table
19:31 < fenn> i'm designing this in my head and making notes
19:31 < fenn> ideally we'd have a cad program that didnt suck
19:31 < fenn> and each part would have a procurement url attached to it
19:31 < kanzure> hey that's not fair- keeping it in your head
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19:33 < kanzure> so what's missing?
19:33 < fenn> what what?
19:34 < kanzure> from http://piratepad.net/Ji4MXCLtUX
19:35 < nmz787> fenn: why 6 trucks?
19:35 < nmz787> wouldn't we need 4 per axis?
19:38 < fenn> kinematic design
19:38 < fenn> 4 would overconstrain
19:39 < nmz787> ?
19:39 < fenn> i should note that in the design section
19:39 < nmz787> so it will be 2 on one rail, 1 on the other
19:39 < fenn> right
19:40 < nmz787> it won't tip weirdly?
19:40 < nmz787> like how trike ATVs are bad at turns?
19:40 < fenn> it will be better supported on one side
19:41 < nmz787> so by overconstrained you mean if the rods werent parallel perfectly, shit would cramp up and not move?
19:41 < delinquentme> kanzure, can you run this: https://gist.github.com/2324632
19:42 < delinquentme> do you get a no method error? and what version of ruby are you on
19:42 < kanzure> delinquentme: is this going to fork bomb me
19:42 < delinquentme> i like the way it sounds
19:42 < delinquentme> but i dont think so
19:42 < kanzure> haha that is not confidence inspiring..
19:42 < kanzure> ok one sec
19:42 < delinquentme> true. but its 3 threads @ most :D
19:43 < kanzure> yep it runs
19:43 < nmz787> fenn: why do you say the screw will turn at 1krpm?
19:43 < fenn> because that's the top speed of a garden variety stepper motor
19:43 < delinquentme> undefined method `keys' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError)
19:43 < nmz787> that doesn't mean we'll ever cut that fast
19:43 < delinquentme> what version of ruby ?
19:44 < fenn> that's only 10mm/s
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19:45 < kanzure> fenn: would you be ok with hauling stuff from halcyon
19:45 < fenn> i have no way to haul stuff
19:45 < kanzure> yeah we'll rent something
19:45 < fenn> i can ask my friend rob maybe, he lives in redwood city and has a car
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19:45 < delinquentme> what you guys picking up?
19:46 < nmz787> homedepot rents trucks for $20
19:46 < kanzure> no a car is going to be insufficient
19:46 < kanzure> i'm trying to get an inventory list from them but no luck
19:46 < kanzure> they have a machine shop, biology lab, and a few chemistry labs
19:46 < fenn> where you going to put all that?
19:47 < nmz787> bring it to rochester
19:47 < nmz787> hah
19:47 < nmz787> kanzure: it similar in pricing as detroit
19:47 < kanzure> fenn: i'm just thinking for now. i don't know what i want from them.
19:50 < Stee|> kanzure, what are you doing?
19:51 < kanzure> Stee|: CODE
19:51 < Stee|> the halcyon thing
19:51 < kanzure> Stee|: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/ezproxy.py
19:51 < kanzure> Stee|: halcyon molecular is liquidating
19:51 < kanzure> sooo... buy everything
19:51 < Stee|> how much are they selling everything to you for?
19:52 < kanzure> i don't even know what exactly they still have
19:52 -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:59 < kanzure> fenn: nmz787: what's missing?
19:59 < kanzure> it would be nice to also specify the electronics
20:01 < nmz787> fenn, kanzure: i vote propeller for the brains
20:02 < kanzure> and the steppers?
20:02 < kanzure> oh also please don't forget indicator LEDs or something
20:03 < kanzure> and the actual laser
20:04 < nmz787> i'll have to look into the spectrum of acryclic
20:04 < kanzure> we def. want acrylic?
20:04 < nmz787> but i think i remember that we should use CO2
20:04 < Stee|> yo, if they have any high precision stages grab those...I can tell you how to build an electrohydrodynamic jet printer
20:04 < nmz787> as the substrate to cut into under the PDMS
20:04 < kanzure> it would be nice to cut at least pdms, acrylic, glass
20:06 < kanzure> fume exhaust/blowing hookup?
20:08 < nmz787> can we just put a metal trashcan around the whole thing, with a big ass squirrel cage fan?
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20:45 < ParahSailin_> heh halcyon
20:51 < kanzure> delinquentme: ok.. updated
20:51 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/ezproxy.py
20:52 < delinquentme> coool
20:52 < kanzure> sciencedirect stuff is sorta working (not really: download_csv should check hashes or something)
20:52 < kanzure> it only scrapes for journal titles and urls, it doesn't gather info about which journal volumes exist
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20:59 < kanzure> delinquentme: read the code.. let me know what you think
21:02 < delinquentme> thats alot of code
21:02 < delinquentme> whats newest?
21:03 < delinquentme> all these many to many .. is this how you run the setup on mongo?
21:04 < delinquentme> kanzure, ^
21:07 < nmz787> kanzure: https://secure.diyhpl.us/write/diyhpluswiki/ikiwiki.cgi?page=projects/laser_etcher&do=edit doesnt say i'm authorized
21:07 < nmz787> using my ssh creds
21:09 < katsmeow-afk> fenn, what's a "ball bearing ball joint" called? it's like a heim joint, but the ball is supported with ball bearings, like a conveyor ball
21:10 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:14 < kanzure> nmz787: just use the piratepad thing
21:14 < kanzure> joshcryer: yo
21:14 < kanzure> nmz787: i'll add your account to diyhpluswiki.. but you won't be able to edit that page anyway (ikiwiki is broken)
21:15 < diginet> ParahSailin_, are you around?
21:15 < ParahSailin_> yes
21:16 < kanzure> delinquentme: decided not to use mongo. by default that uses sqlite.
21:16 < diginet> so, I was just curious, are those sf9/sf21 cells difficult to culture?
21:16 < joshcryer> sup kanzure
21:16 < joshcryer> did we discuss google's ar glasses?
21:18 < joshcryer> ahh, 11:51 april 4th... barely mentioned
21:19 < delinquentme> kanzure, i like example comments
21:19 < yashgaroth> diginet, you'll need a tissue culture hood I'd imagine
21:20 < delinquentme> i like pythons method comments best
21:20 < diginet> yashgaroth, to avoid contamination?
21:20 < yashgaroth> da
21:21 < ParahSailin_> id need to work in the biosafety cabinet with those
21:21 < diginet> so, are they maybe a bad choice for a DIYer?
21:21 < ParahSailin_> kinda
21:21 < diginet> hmm
21:22 < diginet> maybe I should try algae or somethinhg
21:22 < yashgaroth> anything euks with liquid media tend to need it
21:22 < diginet> *something
21:22 < diginet> is there any health hazard?
21:22 < ParahSailin_> aseptic technique might be manageable without hood
21:22 < yashgaroth> hazard to you, from insect cells?
21:23 < ParahSailin_> no
21:23 < diginet> yeah? (I know that's probably a silly question)
21:23 < yashgaroth> naaah
21:23 < diginet> ah okay, Id idn't think so
21:23 < ParahSailin_> from the baculovirus i wouldnt think so either
21:23 < diginet> apart from the equipment I would need, are they finnicky to work with?
21:23 < ParahSailin_> never worked with them
21:23 < diginet> ah
21:24 < ParahSailin_> but theyve gotta be easier than human cells
21:24 < diginet> heh
21:24 < yashgaroth> easier than non-cancer cells maybe
21:24 < diginet> well, I've read in a few papers that insect cell lines worked really rell with spider silk genes
21:24 < diginet> *well
21:25 < yashgaroth> parahsailin are your sf9's adherent or suspension?
21:27 < ParahSailin_> i dunno the growth habit, id have to find that out from the grad student when i get the cells
21:27 < ParahSailin_> most of that is just medium and adaptation
21:27 < yashgaroth> true
21:28 < diginet> how does one control, if possible, secretion of the protein? Is there anyway to ensure that it will be or not?
21:28 < ParahSailin_> is anyone else interested in getting some sf9 cells?
21:29 < yashgaroth> generally a secreted protein will have an n-terminal peptide tag that directs it to secretion before getting cleaved off
21:29 < ParahSailin_> actually.. its sf21 cells that i can get
21:29 < ParahSailin_> the spidroin is gonna have a secretion signal peptide on it
21:29 < diginet> ParahSailin_, again, thank you so much for doing this
21:30 < diginet> how do you store them? do I need LN2?
21:30 < ParahSailin_> insect cells might work in -70
21:30 < diginet> (if so I could potentially get it, I don't think its too expensive, and I think I know someone with a dewar)
21:30 < ParahSailin_> if you can find a dewar that would be awesome
21:30 < diginet> but in other words, not a freezer :P
21:32 < nmz787> are these sf lines immortal, from what creature originally?
21:32 < ParahSailin_> spodoptera or something
21:32 < ParahSailin_> from some sort of caterpillar
21:32 < nmz787> ahh
21:32 < nmz787> ok
21:32 < yashgaroth> developed from ovaries of the Fall Army worm, Spodoptera frugiperda, a moth species
21:33 < yashgaroth> and I would certainly hope they're immortalized
21:33 < nmz787> and you guys want to, what, give yourselves tatoos with them or what
21:33 < nmz787> ?
21:33 < nmz787> :D
21:33 < yashgaroth> he wants to do recombinant spidersilk protein production
21:34 < diginet> one thing that has frustrated me is that I haven't been able to find any specific data on the composition of the dope
21:34 < yashgaroth> you mean the cell culture media? that shit's hella proprietary
21:35 < diginet> particularly, I've seen no information on how many parts MaSp1 to MaSp2
21:35 < diginet> no, the silk dope
21:36 < diginet> the culture medium though, ugh, that's going to be my achilles heel, I can theoretically grow the cells indefinitely, but I can't get the growth medium except through a few sources
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21:40 < yashgaroth> honestly they're all pretty similar, but iunno what growth factors insects have
21:42 < yashgaroth> bbl, dinner
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21:46 < nmz787> just get a goat
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21:46 < nmz787> this is where i see cross-species deformities becoming technology
21:47 < nmz787> like take a goat fetus, remove its sensory organs and thinking centers in its brain, remove its legs... and you've got a sterile pump that can eat hay, turning it into culture media
21:49 < nmz787> flow the blood over a nanopore membrane, will allow nutrients to pass, but immune cells separate
21:49 < diginet> ehh, I wish it were that simple, lol
21:50 < nmz787> thats what would really help though
21:50 < katsmeow-afk> fetus cannot eat hay
21:50 < nmz787> if we're talking synbio
21:50 < nmz787> well no, deform it when its a fetus, then let it finish incubating
21:50 < nmz787> so PETA can't bitch as much
21:50 < katsmeow-afk> umm, riiiggght
21:50 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:50 < nmz787> and so we dont feel bad for making it suffer
21:51 < kanzure> nmz787: or.. just grow the immune cells separately on your own
21:51 < nmz787> if not that, then just rip the genes out of its DNA
21:51 < nmz787> nah you want to keep them separate, the whole non-self rejection
22:00 < nmz787> really, no one thinks thats inline with the whole 'biology is technology' meme?
22:02 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
22:02 < kanzure> nmz787: no, it's in line..
22:03 < kanzure> but your line about PETA seems superfluous/ridiculous :P
22:03 < kanzure> there is no predicting an organization like that
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22:10 < nmz787> i guess
22:12 < delinquentme> they've gotten famous by being alarmists
22:12 < delinquentme> basically give them something that they believe the general public will be up in arms about and theyll make you infamous
22:12 < delinquentme> is what id guess their method to be like
22:12 < delinquentme> kanzure,
22:13 < kanzure> what
22:13 < delinquentme> do you want to make this google search threaded and recursive for me
22:13 < kanzure> is this the one where you're searching for publishers
22:13 < delinquentme> just publishers and urls yeah
22:13 < kanzure> why threaded? google will rate limit you very quickly
22:13 < delinquentme> basically its threaded for speed and it recurses if it hits any hiccups
22:14 < delinquentme> in hopes thell email me and tell me to eff off?
22:14 < kanzure> yahoo offers 10k free requests per day on its search api if you get an api key
22:14 < kanzure> no google just makes you type in a captcha, and doesn't do anything else until you do
22:15 < delinquentme> but who wants to use yahoo?
22:15 < kanzure> i bet the results will be the same
22:15 < delinquentme> up to what page
22:15 < kanzure> you only want the publisher's url right?
22:15 < delinquentme> maybe the first 10 links
22:16 < delinquentme> not bad
22:16 < delinquentme> hmmmm
22:16 < delinquentme> I need to find some solid threaded applications
22:16 < kanzure> python twisted
22:16 < delinquentme> just to add it to my resume
22:17 < charlieschwabach> this is really easy to use w/ python
22:17 < charlieschwabach> http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html
22:19 < delinquentme> i think im gonna stick w the initial recursion
22:19 < delinquentme> figure out more niftyness to use threads on
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22:20 < kanzure> multiprocessing looks neat.. subprocesses have a lot of advantages over threads
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22:33 < delinquentme> kanzure, save that for tomorrow
22:33 < delinquentme> lateR!
22:34 < kanzure> seeya
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22:43 < strangewarp> Currently reading a forum thread on $anonymous_random_website about how science fiction has supposedly become hopelessly dystopian and boring. The responses are all "well yes hm-hm the world is obviously dying, technology's promise has evaporated, so it's no surprise" and I want to strangle everyone
22:51 < folmat_> anyone in linux
22:51 < folmat_> try my grid
22:51 < folmat_> it makes a sound wave
22:52 < folmat_> you have to listen to it
22:52 < folmat_> maybe do it on a computer where you can turn it down or
22:52 < folmat_> just turn down the volume it sets when it loads the wav in the code
22:52 < folmat_> http://ansistego.sf.net/stim.tgz
22:52 < folmat_> gcc -O3 -lSDL -lSDL_mixer -ffast-math -funroll-loops -funswitch-loops
22:52 < folmat_> good luck
22:53 < nmz787> what is it?
22:53 < folmat_> evolves a neural genetic grid to sound like a target wav file
22:53 < nmz787> cant find sdl
22:53 < folmat_> get sdl hurry
22:53 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ
22:53 < folmat_> should come with sdl_mixer
22:53 < nmz787> apt-get ?
22:53 < folmat_> ya
22:54 <@kanzure> are you eric
22:54 < folmat_> no
22:54 <@kanzure> are you flamoot
22:54 < nmz787> libsdl-sound?
22:54 < folmat_> i dont think that's necessary it uses one called mixer though
22:54 < folmat_> no kanzure
22:55 < folmat_> this is like chinese way saying format
22:55 < nmz787> hah
22:56 < nmz787> fly lice?
22:57 <@kanzure> ok look
22:57 <@kanzure> http://sourceforge.net/projects/ansistego/
22:57 <@kanzure> links to flamoot
22:57 <@kanzure> you're flamoot.
22:57 -!- folmat_ was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [folmat_]
22:58 < nmz787> aww
22:59 < ParahSailin_> what was the virus he was trying to have us run?
22:59 <@kanzure> ParahSailin_: he's a known schizo
22:59 <@kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-aliens
23:00 <@kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-aliens/browse_thread/thread/9b0583d2e5fb77c2#
23:01 < nmz787> its a c file and some wavs
23:01 < ParahSailin_> wow that guy is a trip
23:01 < nmz787> looks benign to me, though i just quickly scanned through 3000 lines
23:01 < nmz787> so i could have missed the rm -rf line
23:02 <@kanzure> he is the single cause for why saying "flamoot" on 4chan gets you auto permabanned by the filters
23:02 <@kanzure> which is pretty impressive considering 4chan allows a lot of shit
23:02 < ParahSailin_> wow
23:11 < nmz787> lol
23:13 < sylph_mako> Wait so there's a way to get yourself permabanned?
23:13 < sylph_mako> A lot of 4channers would love to know about this.
23:15 <@kanzure> http://flamoot.blogspot.com/2012/02/flamoot-only-banned-word-on-4chan.html
23:15 <@kanzure> oh man those posts are precious
23:15 <@kanzure> "Summoning UFOs with Psilocybin and Terence McKenna"
23:17 < sylph_mako> I can use this to troll the shit out of people.
23:18 < yashgaroth> do you have a reference on that outside of his blog? he's not exactly the best source
23:18 < sylph_mako> I must tell my troll comerades.
23:18 < strangewarp> Damn, this guy is starting to compete with CarTellingWindows and TimeCube
23:18 < sylph_mako> Yeah I just googled it.
23:18 < sylph_mako> People getting permabanned when they ask what this flamoot shit is.
23:18 < yashgaroth> heh
23:25 < nmz787> he;s got 131k views on youtube
23:28 < nmz787> this one is pretty cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiTeS3XfXg4&list=UUsQKUex7qt6UUcChadrMU1Q&index=36&feature=plcp
23:28 <@kanzure> Revista de Psiquiatr�a y Salud Mental (English Edition) (21735050)
23:29 <@kanzure> how is that supposed to be parsed
23:37 <@kanzure> ah.. "Psiquiatría"
23:44 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-66-66-101-35.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:46 < joshcryer> that blog is what I don't even
23:46 < joshcryer> "I do believe reality is VR. If space were a real mesh and not a voxel landscape, I think movement would be cheaper."
23:54 -!- capiscuas [~capiscuas@ppp-115-87-196-226.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined ##hplusroadmap
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--- Log closed Sat Apr 07 00:00:24 2012