--- Log opened Sat Apr 07 00:00:24 2012
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00:35 < diginet> is this guy literally schizophrenic, or just crazy?
00:35 <@kanzure> literally schizophrenic
00:36 <@kanzure> i think archels knows him in person?
00:36 < diginet> wow
00:36 < diginet> that's sad, I feel bad for him :(
00:36 <@kanzure> he's a smart fellow. he'll figure something out.
00:36 < diginet> the worst part is that schizophrenia is definitely treatable with medication
00:36 < diginet> it's just, a lot of schizophrenics don't want to take it
00:37 <@kanzure> he's also homeless or something
00:37 < diginet> :(
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00:53 < lichen> ive heard of schizos using nicotine
00:57 < lichen> am i bad for finding schizo rants really amusing?
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01:02 < nmz787> kanzure: awake?
01:04 < strangewarp> lichen: They show how the human brain works when it loses its reality-checking mechanism. They are definitely morbidly fascinating
01:05 < nmz787> strangewarp: what is this?
01:06 < lichen> im looking at flamoot's blog
01:06 < lichen> seems like a troubled dude
01:15 < strangewarp> nmz787: what lichen said
01:20 < lichen> this 'transalchemy' channel is odd
01:20 < lichen> and the name does not really make me think of transhumanism
01:20 < lichen> i also cant tell if these videos are for or against transhumanism
01:23 < nmz787> ahh, yes
01:24 < yashgaroth> I think he's decided that transhumanism is backed by aliens and thus unstoppable, so he's both for and against it
01:25 < lichen> uh. huh...
01:25 < yashgaroth> what am I, a psychologist
01:27 < yashgaroth> he does have remarkable video editing abilities for a hobo
01:27 < lichen> indeed
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08:31 < diginet> isn't transalchemy kind of redundant?
08:32 < diginet> considering alchemy, by definition, is the study of transmutation?
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08:44 < archels> I don't think anyone in this channel will have anything to do with that website.
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08:47 < chris_99> what have i missed, which website?
08:47 < diginet> some nutcase who think aliens are directing our evolution or something silly like that
08:48 <@kanzure> damn are you guys still talking about that?
08:48 < diginet> I was just pointing out the ridiculous of the name of the channel "transalchemy," but tbh that's the least of the concerns
08:48 < diginet> sorry, I brought it back up
08:48  * diginet backs away, slowly
08:49 < delinquentme> so what are practices which allow open source hardware
08:49 < delinquentme> to be built
08:49 < delinquentme> expanded on
08:49 < delinquentme> by others
08:49 < diginet> you know, we should stop calling it "open source hardware" considering something which doesn't entail source code makes no sense to be called as such
08:50 < diginet> sorry, if I was too acerbic, it's just a pet peeve of mine
08:50 < diginet> kanzure, how close are you/whoever else is working on it, to DIY artificial gene synthesis??
08:50 < delinquentme> Is there a precedent in this area?
08:50 < diginet> didn't mean to put two question marks
08:50 < chris_99> i'd disagree with you on that one diginet
08:50 < diginet> I think the standard is just open hardware
08:50 < diginet> chris_99, explain
08:50 < chris_99> have you heard of licences like creative commons?
08:51 < diginet> sure, it's not "open source" though
08:51 < delinquentme> semantics
08:51 < delinquentme> masturbation
08:51 < delinquentme> jerk off elsewhere
08:51 < delinquentme> seriously
08:51 < diginet> well hold on
08:51 < chris_99> oh you're being picky about the source word
08:51 < diginet> semantics is the study of meaning, isn't that important?
08:51 < diginet> I don't like it when people say "oh don't argue semantics" since semantics is the entire point of language
08:53 < diginet> It's sort of like the misappropriation of the word "science"
08:54 < diginet> science is not phenomenology, it's the employment of the scientific method to obtain reliable, objective information on the natural world
08:54 < delinquentme> diginet, is there nothing more productive youd rather be working on?
08:54 < delinquentme> yes we're human yes we like gab
08:55 < diginet> I'm not trying to be comabtive! I didn't mean it as an affront, sorry if it came across that way
08:55 < delinquentme> if you want to talk about what makes a platform expandable lets talk
08:55 < diginet> I just think its important that names are chosen wisely
08:55 < delinquentme> noted, but its just not constructive ... which is why im raping myself over this
08:55 <@kanzure> hardware is programmed just like software
08:55 < delinquentme> linux is easy you can compile that shit and build out the features in code
08:55 <@kanzure> both has source code
08:56 < delinquentme> hardware the compile is different
08:56 < chris_99> not necessarily kanzure
08:56 < diginet> if you're talking about something like FPGAs sure
08:56 < diginet> VHDL, Verilog
08:56 < chris_99> it could just be discrete logic ;)
08:56 < diginet> I'd even count LaTeX as "code"
08:56 < diginet> but schematics are definitely not "code" unless you dilute the terms so much as to be meaningless
08:57 <@kanzure> diginet: artificial gene synthesis has been around for a long time
08:57 < delinquentme> damn klaf no here
08:57 <@kanzure> diginet: autolisp
08:57 <@kanzure> that's code. stop lying to me.
08:58 < diginet> well sure, I'm not saying all hardware doesn't have associated code, but for instance, if someone calls instructions licensed under creative commons or what have you "open source"  I think thats kind of a stretch
08:58 < Urchin> TeX is a propper Turing complete programming language
08:59 <@kanzure> creative commons is very often misused for hardware licensing
08:59 <@kanzure> but the reality is that patents cover hardware
08:59 <@kanzure> copyright can be used for the expression of a design, but not the design itself
08:59 < diginet> well, for example, are you familiar with aerogel.org?
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09:00 < diginet> that's a really cool site, but they call it "open source aerogel" or something, when it's really freely available instructions, I really think that's a stretch
09:01 <@kanzure> is it licensed with some OSI-approved license?
09:01 < diginet> There's no "code" to license
09:01 <@kanzure> that's not what i am asking
09:01 < diginet> it's a set of protocols
09:01 < diginet> I think its creative commons
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09:02 < diginet> if it is licensed under and OSI license, then that's a misusage of the purpose of such licenses
09:02 < diginet> *an
09:02 <@kanzure> ok. CC can be vaguely misconstrued as open source. but not "some restrictive license. yeah we're totally open source."
09:02 <@kanzure> diginet: GFDL.
09:02 < delinquentme> KANZ
09:02 < delinquentme> EYE HATE YEW
09:02 <@kanzure> no you don't
09:02 < delinquentme> you doing that in python last night got me thinking about what to program the server in for the syringe
09:02 < delinquentme> its obvs python.
09:02 <@kanzure> delinquentme: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/ezproxy.py
09:03 < delinquentme> <#
09:03 < delinquentme> <333
09:03 < diginet> the thing is: what bothers me is the the term open source seems to be in the process of being severly watered down, what worries me is that profiteerers might latch on (as some already have) and exploit the term
09:03 < delinquentme> but yeah rails isnt the software for that piece of hardware
09:03 < delinquentme> django and python dont u think?
09:03 < diginet> a good example would be google, calling Android "open source" is a farce
09:03 <@kanzure> i think the code is distributed with an open source license bro
09:03 < n_bentha> ke ke ke "delinquentme:	jerk off elsewhere"
09:04 <@kanzure> you should be more upset at things like openpcr which took 2 years to release any source at all
09:04 < diginet> except they've postponed releasing of code for newer releases indefinitely
09:04 < diginet> (last time I checked)
09:04 <@kanzure> diginet: aosp 4 was released recently
09:04 < diginet> and only parts of it are open sourced
09:04 < delinquentme> n_bentha, Huk HuK! Me GoSU! >_<;;;;;;;;;;;; <( '.' < ) <( '.' )> ( > '.' )>
09:05 < delinquentme> the ones on the ends are too fat
09:05 < delinquentme> damn!
09:05 < n_bentha> lol
09:05 < diginet> anyway, sorry for this tangent, it's just one of my rather eccentric collections of hang-ups
09:06 < diginet> anyhow, kanzure I'm aware that gene synthesis is a fairly old technology, but is it anywhere near the real of being doable on a hobbyist budget?
09:06 < ParahSailin_> openpcr is being niggardly with the soarces?
09:06 <@kanzure> ParahSailin_: they finally released code/plans but it took them forever
09:06 <@kanzure> diginet: btw what do you count as a hobbyist budget
09:06 < diginet> a good example of flagrant abuse of the world open source would be dd-wrt
09:07 < diginet> *word
09:07 < diginet> kanzure, hmm, good question, maybe a few hundred dollars max?
09:07 <@kanzure> really? come on at least give me a budget of $3k/year
09:07 < diginet> potentially more or lesss, depending on how much one is capable/willing to diy
09:07 < diginet> kanzure, that's why I asked :P
09:07 <@kanzure> diginet: chemicals for dna synthesis are <$1k
09:08 < diginet> ugh
09:08 < diginet> I gather highly proprietary as well?
09:08 <@kanzure> no
09:08 < diginet> oh
09:08 < diginet> any chance of diy synthesis?
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09:08 < n_bentha> hey gais
09:08 <@kanzure> yeah.. that's what the chip is about :P
09:08 < diginet> ahhh right
09:08 < diginet> cool
09:08 < n_bentha> is there a way to kill someone's stero-system through a wall?
09:08 < delinquentme> ParahSailin_, lolol
09:08 < n_bentha> (that i can afford)
09:09 <@kanzure> phosphoramidites, acetonitrile, pyridine, thf, some oxidizer, tca, etc..
09:09 < ParahSailin_> openpcr started as a kickstarter?
09:09 <@kanzure> n_bentha: sniper rifle
09:09 <@kanzure> ParahSailin_: yes :/
09:09 < ParahSailin_> i think im seeing an obvious problem with kickstarter
09:09 <@kanzure> it's like begging
09:09 < diginet> n_bentha, depends, if it's radio, that's easy, just get a jammer, if not, then you could try and get into the mains and get it to powersurge
09:09 < ParahSailin_> its really just a way to scam/bleg, yah
09:09 < diginet> kickstarter, while fine in theory, represents a lot of what I can't stand about a lot of things
09:10 < ParahSailin_> needs to be a way to crowdfund with equity or something
09:10 < diginet> one particularly egregious example was the so-called "manifold clock"
09:10 < ParahSailin_> thank you sec for making that illegal
09:10 < diginet> it was just crummy timex wall clock fitted with some aluminized film, took about 10 min to make and about $10 in materials
09:11 <@kanzure> here is a list of culprits who supported openpcr
09:11 < diginet> except they have a damn fundraiser for that POS
09:11 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/openpcr.txt
09:11 < diginet> kanzure, I'm guessing that you're not too fond of OpenPCR, what did they do? scam people with spurious claims of "openness?"
09:12 <@kanzure> yes.. but they finally repented so i'm apparently not allowed to be angry about it anymore?
09:12 < diginet> haha, well that's no fun!
09:12 < diginet> I've kind of had it with these profiteerers riding the DIY wave
09:12 < diginet> you look at the absurd markup on some of this "open source" stuff
09:12 < diginet> ugh
09:13 < diginet> the worst repeat offenders are the arduino crowd
09:13 <@kanzure> i think people are moving on from the "open source" buzzword.. hopefully into "maker"
09:13 < diginet> nevermind the fact that anyone who can't build something as trivial as the arduino doesn't need to be doing electronics
09:14 < diginet> there's just so much pseudo-intellectualism, and attentions seekers who do stupid things but get attention because ZOMG ARDWEENOZ
09:14 <@kanzure> diginet: another reason i'm not fond is the incredibly high cost
09:14 < diginet> yeah, $30+ for a dev board? what a joke
09:14 <@kanzure> there's really no good reason it should cost >$500
09:14 < diginet> OpenPCR you mean?
09:14 < diginet> yeah
09:14 <@kanzure> yes..
09:14 < diginet> if it's that expensive, it defeats the purpose
09:15 < delinquentme> open DJ equipment! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aurora_224_-_2ch_Open_Source_DJ_Mixer_(3).jpg
09:15 <@kanzure> delinquentme: so wait
09:15 <@kanzure> you want to run a syringe pump with django?
09:15 <@kanzure> what
09:15 < delinquentme> kanzure, http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:20733
09:16 <@kanzure> yep.. this ain't gonna be hard
09:16 <@kanzure> but getting precise amounts might be
09:17 <@kanzure> like runnning at 1 nanoliter/hour
09:18 < diginet> http://forums.hackaday.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2124 if anyone is interested, there's a polemic I wrote on this very subject
09:19 < delinquentme> kanzure, i mean the demographic who would use it
09:20 < delinquentme> they're going to be python
09:20 <@kanzure> ah.
09:22 <@kanzure> delinquentme: i'll finish up the sciencedirect integration today on ezproxy.py
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09:23 <@kanzure> delinquentme: are you able to run the unit tests?
09:24 < n_bentha> thanks diginet, i'll see about getting into the mains
09:25 < delinquentme> ive built in rigged up asserts
09:25 < delinquentme> not any legit testing frameworks .. but i mean the data is bone simple and we just need to ensure those 3 structures are being fed into whatever we're saving
09:25 <@kanzure> yeah but i mean
09:25 <@kanzure> i have unit tests in ezproxy.py and are you able to run them?
09:26 < delinquentme> didnt try
09:26 < delinquentme> but I think i've got unit test
09:26 < ParahSailin_> http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/were-jews-ever-really-slaves-in-egypt-or-is-passover-a-myth-1.420844 heh
09:27 < ParahSailin_> interesting to see that in israeli media
09:27 < diginet> n_bentha, I feel for you, stuff like that is miserable
09:27 < n_bentha> it's the subwoofers that are killing me
09:27 < diginet> ParahSailin_, yeah, you have to admire their honesty, considering Israeli archaeologists would be more biased towards finding evidence of the exodus than literally any other group
09:27 < diginet> n_bentha, oh, dear, god
09:28 < n_bentha> to hear the trebel, i have to put my head against the wall. i can hear the bass from the far end of my place
09:28 <@kanzure> n_bentha: file a police report?
09:28 < n_bentha> how do i do that?
09:28 <@kanzure> call up the non-emergecy line
09:28 < diginet> noise pollution
09:28 <@kanzure> non-emergency
09:28 < diginet> it's a real thing
09:29 < n_bentha> sweet. will do
09:30 < n_bentha> crap. there's a part-time job opening but the hours are 9am-2pm for a lab-tech. i've got the perfect skills set too...
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09:39 < diginet> so my sister sent me this video: http://youtu.be/0Au_8GMUxVs
09:39 < diginet> the amount of douchebaggery at wherever that is makes me gag a little
09:40 < delinquentme> kanzure, reprap > makerbot?
09:40 <@kanzure> i'd say so.
09:41 < delinquentme> i dont like the cutesy wood crap either
09:42 < ParahSailin_> is plywood actually a useful material to build out of?
09:43 < delinquentme> Gmail Tap ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KhZKNZO8mQ
09:43 < delinquentme> ROFL
09:54 < Urchin> http://xkcd.com/1031/ this really does make internet 100 times better
09:55 < delinquentme> ParahSailin_, plywood? USB?
09:55 < ParahSailin_> what about it?
09:56 < delinquentme> like if you're talking the chipped and reglued layered wood absolutely
09:56 < delinquentme> all the benefits of natural fiber ... none of the weird bowing and crap
09:57 < delinquentme> that stuff = human win
09:57 < ParahSailin_> are they not using plywood?
09:57 < ParahSailin_> like actual wood?
09:58 < ParahSailin_> im not that familiar, i just remember it having vaguely wood-like material
10:04 < delinquentme> ParahSailin_, i dont follow what you're asking
10:04 < delinquentme> are you saying if it can be replace 1:1?
10:04 < delinquentme> not quite
10:04 < ParahSailin_> "i dont like the cutesy wood crap either"
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10:09 < delinquentme> OHHhh lolol
10:09 < delinquentme> idk what it is
10:09 < delinquentme> its to make it look friendly
10:09 < delinquentme> i want it to look evil
10:09 < delinquentme> >=]
10:10 < delinquentme> kanzure, you guys wern't planning on using the reprap as the XYZ for that laser huh
10:10 <@kanzure> no
10:10 < delinquentme> that'd give me a warm fuzzy feeling
10:10 < delinquentme> because you know something about standing on the shoulders of chipmunks
10:10 < delinquentme> and nuts
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10:18 < delinquentme> kanzure, does it make sense to build everything from scratch?
10:24 <@kanzure> depends on what
10:24 <@kanzure> the rails are definitely buoght
10:24 <@kanzure> bought
10:24 < delinquentme> hehe
10:25 < delinquentme> so like what if you guys designed *just* the laser
10:25 <@kanzure> instead of what?
10:25 < delinquentme> and contacted the reprap guys and talked w them about installing it on that gantry
10:25 <@kanzure> their gantry isn't precise enough
10:26 <@kanzure> fenn would be able to tell you exactly why :|
10:26 < delinquentme> 1/80th of a mm?
10:29 <@kanzure> that's not a micron
10:30 < delinquentme> whats the budget on this gantry?
10:30 <@kanzure> *shrug*
10:30 < delinquentme> the most accurate price / res sensor i've found is $50
10:30 <@kanzure> well, more than $100 haha
10:30 <@kanzure> probably less than $100k
10:31 < delinquentme> and you see why im skeptical?
10:32 <@kanzure> no
10:32 < delinquentme> i find that hard to believe
10:32 <@kanzure> if you're so skeptical.. why not tell me to buy a DNA synthesizer straight up?
10:32 < delinquentme> isnt that what you're building?
10:32 <@kanzure> yes :) but you're skeptical..
10:33 < delinquentme> are you 1) making a microfluidics chip prototyper 2) a microfluidics based synthesizer or 3) a synthesizing company
10:33 < delinquentme> if its 3 .. then yes buy a synthesizer
10:33 <@kanzure> #2 requires #1 in our case
10:35 < delinquentme> on a gradation between fact and opinon
10:35 < delinquentme> where does that statement fall
10:36 <@kanzure> well we need to make prototypes
10:36 <@kanzure> so let's assume that on average getting someone else to make a prototype costs $400
10:36 <@kanzure> let's also say that we will be needing at least 100 prototypes because, let's face it, we're going to make mistakes
10:36 < delinquentme> $250
10:37 <@kanzure> so 100 * $40 = $40,000
10:37 < delinquentme> kanzure, that is the part where i seriously doubt
10:37 < delinquentme> you want an excuse to build things
10:37 < delinquentme> thats awesome
10:37 <@kanzure> if the cost of a prototyper is less than $40,000 then i say go for it
10:37 < delinquentme> but
10:37 < delinquentme> if you're a kid building toys say it
10:37 < delinquentme> you're not going to fuck up 100 times unless you're retarded about it
10:37 < delinquentme> in 10 tries youll get it if you're smart about it
10:37 <@kanzure> have you ever built a microfluidics device?
10:37 < delinquentme> in addition its not like the microfluidics lab wont have best practices for this
10:37 < delinquentme> afterall
10:38 <@kanzure> it might take 10 times just to optimize the pressure valves
10:38 < delinquentme> it is what they *do*
10:38 <@kanzure> they don't do design.. they just fab
10:38 < delinquentme> because i have a million dollar machine to make things
10:38 < delinquentme> i only fab on it
10:38 <@kanzure> what million dollar machine?
10:38 < delinquentme> i cannot offer any thoughts on how to build those things
10:38 < delinquentme> im saying if they've got the hardware to build X
10:38 < delinquentme> they might know some things about building X
10:39 <@kanzure> http://www.stanford.edu/group/foundry/
10:39 <@kanzure> "Fabrication of Pre-designed Microfluidic Chips"
10:39 <@kanzure> "Consulting on Microfluidic Design Using the Design Rules Outlined by the Stanford Microfluidics Foundry"
10:39 <@kanzure> consulting = $$$
10:39 < delinquentme> so lets assume its too expensive
10:39 < archels> "pre-designed" as opposed to "randomly wired"?
10:39 < delinquentme> safe assumption.
10:39 <@kanzure> archels: no it means "here are some files to choose from"
10:39 <@kanzure> archels: http://www.stanford.edu/group/foundry/pre-design%20chips.html
10:40 < archels> oh, neat
10:40 < delinquentme> kanzure, im gonna write them an email
10:41 < delinquentme> could you give me a write up of what technical issues you expect to come across
10:41 < delinquentme> id guess you already have it
10:41 <@kanzure> there are so many bugs. it's hard to think of something that wouldn't be buggy.
10:42 <@kanzure> channels collapsing, valves malfunctioning, valves not closing completely, valves not opening completely, non-smooth channels
10:42 <@kanzure> unexpected fluid physics
10:42 <@kanzure> corrosive chemical effects
10:43 <@kanzure> unexpected droplet merging, stable/reliable droplet generation, droplet pumping, droplet popping, contamination, ...
10:43 < delinquentme> well channel smoothness is solved in hardware
10:43 < delinquentme> OH and about that video you've got on youtube at the t junction
10:43 < delinquentme> the scale of those physics aren't nano
10:43 < delinquentme> the fluids are waay less dynamic at small levels
10:44 <@kanzure> haha "Crossovers of control lines and flow lines can be created without resulting in a valve at each crossover point. To achieve this, the control line should be designed narrower (15-30um) at these crossover points to ensure no membrane valve is formed."
10:44 <@kanzure> yes i am familiar with laminar flow
10:44 < delinquentme> ?
10:44 < delinquentme> what
10:44 <@kanzure> laminar flow is how you model/describe water at this scale
10:45 < delinquentme> your response would indicate otherwise as laminar flow is not at all what im talking about here :D
10:45 <@kanzure> http://faculty.washington.edu/yagerp/microfluidicstutorial/basicconcepts/basicconcepts.htm
10:45 <@kanzure> "Due to the small dimensions of microchannels, the Re is usually much less than 100, often less than 1.0. In this Reynolds number regime, flow is completely laminar and no turbulence occurs. The transition to turbulent flow generally occurs in the range of Reynolds number 2000."
10:45 <@kanzure> " Laminar flow provides a means by which molecules can be transported in a relatively predictable manner through microchannels. Note, however, that even at Reynolds numbers below 100, it is possible to have momentum-based phenomena such as as flow separation."
10:46 <@kanzure> also for fenn: "One of the basic laws of fluid mechanics for pressure driven laminar flow, the so-called no-slip boundary condition, states that the fluid velocity at the walls must be zero. This produces a parabolic velocity profile within the channel (Figure 1.1)"
10:46 <@kanzure> huh what is this site
10:48 < delinquentme> kanzure,
10:48 < delinquentme> can the synthesizer be made at macro scale cheaper?
10:48 < delinquentme> ( i know fewer awesome gadgets )
10:48 <@kanzure> i'm not sure that would be useful
10:49 < delinquentme> no?
10:49 < delinquentme> how so?
10:49 <@kanzure> let's say that the current 1980s ABI synthesizer tech can be done for <$10k
10:49 <@kanzure> http://www.pegasusscientific.com/Pics/67843.jpg
10:49 <@kanzure> ^ that thing
10:50 <@kanzure> there are a number of disadvantages of this machine
10:50 < delinquentme> kanzure,
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10:50 <@kanzure> for starters: cost, form factor, reagent volume usage, max oligo length
10:50 < delinquentme> would it be wise to outsource this to some company
10:51 < delinquentme> http://www.precisionmicro.com/23/microfluidic-components/components-&-features/component-applications-
10:51 < delinquentme> hot right?
10:51 < delinquentme> fap fap?
10:51 <@kanzure> i don't think it would be cheaper but it's okay to ask them
10:51 < delinquentme> you might not own 100% of it
10:51 <@kanzure> that's not okay.
10:51 < delinquentme> but 1) you'd have a HUGE instrustry connect
10:51 <@kanzure> i am fairly certain that nobody would be okay with this being open source, except me
10:51 < delinquentme> why not?
10:52 <@kanzure> *shrug* hopefully i am wrong and everyone wants this open source
10:52 < delinquentme> well ....
10:52 < delinquentme> assuming you're not a 1 trick pony
10:52 < delinquentme> ( which i dont think you are )
10:52 < delinquentme> why not build something
10:52 < delinquentme> make money
10:52 <@kanzure> i am already making money
10:52 < delinquentme> and build the next thing
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10:52 < delinquentme> eh
10:52 < delinquentme> i mean like
10:52 < delinquentme> profitable
10:52 <@kanzure> i am already profitable
10:52 < delinquentme> so we've got a SV workshop
10:52 <@kanzure> no i'm just cheap
10:53 < delinquentme> interesting defense
10:53 < delinquentme> kk
10:53 <@kanzure> haha
10:53 <@kanzure> well.. prove i'm not cheap :P
10:53 <@kanzure> a cheapster.
10:53 <@kanzure> but yeah i agree with you there's lots of money in this
10:54 <@kanzure> it's worth contacting all these people and seeing what they can offer us
10:54 <@kanzure> but i think we can win even if they offer nothing :)
10:54 < delinquentme> true
10:54 <@kanzure> delinquentme: btw.. would you CC me on those emails?
10:54 < delinquentme> like dont get me wrong
10:55 < delinquentme> we're here headstrong and intelligent if nothing else
10:55 < delinquentme> totes!
10:55 < delinquentme> but like speed is lovely is it not?
10:55 <@kanzure> delinquentme: also.. it would be super super useful if you could help me find someone who i can bug about microfluidics problems, someone who has done droplet work and knows things like "max drop load". i haven't found this person yet.
10:55 <@kanzure> ParahSailin_: you're close buuut you had like one gate :)
10:56 <@kanzure> s/gate/valve
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10:58 <@kanzure> yo AlonzoTG
10:58 < delinquentme> http://www.precisionmicro.com/uploads/microfluidic2.jpg
10:58 <@kanzure> delinquentme: maybe we should do a macro synthesizer
10:59 <@kanzure> PoSaM was weird
10:59 <@kanzure> http://www.bioinformatics.org/pogo/
10:59 < AlonzoTG> wut?
10:59 <@kanzure> "The Piezoelectric Oligonucleotide Synthesizer And Microarrayer (POSAM) was developed in the Hood Laboratory to give researchers access to customizeable DNA microarrays.  The result is an "open source" platform.  The hardware design and protocols are being made available freely to the public and the control software is released under the GPL license."
10:59  * AlonzoTG has been playing WAAAAAY too much minecraft.
11:00 <@kanzure> oh wow i never realized they wrote their software in visual basic
11:00 <@kanzure> http://bioinformatics.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/pogo/pogo-vb/ReagentsForm.frm?rev=1.17&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
11:00 <@kanzure> visual basic + cvs. alright, technology! *cough*
11:01 < roksprok_> are limitations on synthesized oligonucleotide length holding back molecular biology/genetic engineering/synthetic biology?
11:01 <@kanzure> http://bioinformatics.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/pogo/pogo-vb/PogoMain.bas?rev=1.48&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
11:02 <@kanzure> roksprok_: YES
11:02 < delinquentme> kanzure, if we've proven the chemistry and have the protocols its one more thing we can approach people with and say we;ve got this
11:02 <@kanzure> roksprok_: it's also an issue of cost... >$1000 per gene
11:02 < delinquentme> you do XYZ
11:02 < delinquentme> profit
11:02 < roksprok_> kanzure: i am just wondering why there isn't a 'race' for synthesis like there is for sequencing
11:02 <@kanzure> roksprok_: because people think synthesis companies are an OK compromise
11:03 <@kanzure> actually i don't know the real answer to your question
11:03 < roksprok_> kanzure: wouldn't that indicate that they don't feel held back by it?
11:03 <@kanzure> biologists are really crazy
11:04 < roksprok_> agreed, too bad biology is so interesting
11:04 <@kanzure> "oh we can't synthesize this gene because it's too expensive, so let's just synthesize some primers, go to the amazon and catch a specimen, then PCR the gene out of the genome, otherwise it would cost too much to synthesize"
11:05 <@kanzure> a lot of biology lab techniques are sorta because you can't just synthesize what you want
11:05 < roksprok_> maybe they just like trips to the amazon...
11:05 <@kanzure> who doesn't?
11:05 <@kanzure> the other weird thing is that people have said that synthesis prices are dropping
11:06 < roksprok_> that was kind of what i was looking for...just confirmation that I wasn't being completly noobish
11:06 <@kanzure> but if you look at rob carlson's graphs the synthesis prices have only moved a partial order of magnitude over the past 10 years
11:06 <@kanzure> http://www.synthesis.cc/assets_c/2011/06/carlson_cost%20per_base_june_2011.html
11:06 <@kanzure> btw this graph is mostly "cost of ordering it from a company"
11:07 <@kanzure> the per base pair costs when you own your own machine go down.. and they go down even more when you are smart about how you synthesize
11:07 < roksprok_> is it common for a bio lab to own their own machine?
11:07 <@kanzure> no
11:08 <@kanzure> not any more
11:08 <@kanzure> now they just do mail order synthesis
11:08 <@kanzure> there's usually a shared sequencing facility on a college campus but it's not uncommon to just send the dna out to some company to be sequenced
11:09 <@kanzure> who wants to pay $100k+ for a synthesizer from the 80s?
11:09 < roksprok_> i guess you'd have to be really sure you'll do a lot of synthesizing
11:09 <@kanzure> OligoMaker looks like a somewhat more 'modern' device in the $60k-$90k range with >90 simultaneous oligo reactions
11:10 < delinquentme> brb
11:11 <@kanzure> the other issue is that these machines normally do 30-200 bp and not longer because of the error rate in the chemistry
11:12 < roksprok_> what terms should i search to find more how the fragments are stiched together?
11:12 < roksprok_> is there a standard term for it?
11:13 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/synthesis.html
11:13 <@kanzure> there are many methods worth knowing about.. chemical oligo synthesis, ligation chemistry, extension pcr...
11:15 < roksprok_> cool....will do some reading...thanks
11:33 <@kanzure> roksprok_: one of the main drivers of sequencing cost drops was the human genome project
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11:48 < ParahSailin_> close but one gate?
11:49 <@kanzure> sorry i meant valve
11:49 <@kanzure> anyway i was just being hard on you :)
11:49 <@kanzure> ParahSailin_: any thoughts about why synthesis costs aren't falling faster
11:49 <@kanzure> to me they seem stagnant.. i know the graph shows they have changed an order of magnitude over the past 8 years but.. that's nothing.
11:49 < ParahSailin_> was afk, reading scrollback
11:50 < ParahSailin_> why synthesis costs not falling, i guess its hard to develop a new technology other than solid support protect deprotect synthesis
11:51 <@kanzure> i don't think so.
11:51 <@kanzure> but on the other hand: have people tried?
11:51 < ParahSailin_> i think they are being quiet about it
11:52 < ParahSailin_> heres what i think
11:52 < ParahSailin_> most of the market in bio research is nih grants
11:52 < ParahSailin_> so synthesis companies can charge whatever
11:53 < ParahSailin_> and vwr, fisher, invitrogen, etc
11:53 <@kanzure> if PCR didn't exist i bet synthesis costs would be dropping faster
11:55 <@kanzure> ParahSailin_: ok then why have they dropped at all
11:56 < ParahSailin_> theres still some competitive pressure, but limited
11:56 <@kanzure> sequencing cost drop wasn't initially due to competition was it?
11:56 < ParahSailin_> probably?
11:56 <@kanzure> " The publicly funded competitor UC Santa Cruz was compelled to publish the first draft of the human genome before Celera for this reason. On July 7, 2000, the UCSC Genome Bioinformatics Group released a first working draft on the web."
11:56 <@kanzure> oh. damn.
11:57 <@kanzure> hahah "n March 2000, President Clinton announced that the genome sequence could not be patented, and should be made freely available to all researchers. The statement sent Celera's stock plummeting and dragged down the biotechnology-heavy Nasdaq."
11:57 <@kanzure> "The biotechnology sector lost about $50 billion in market capitalization in two days."
11:57 <@kanzure> bahaha "But the public release of the data ensured its fair use and availability to all mankind[citation needed]"
11:59 <@kanzure> oh geeze celera doesn't dump its data into genbank??
12:04 <@kanzure> "A once-deafening debate over access to human genome sequence data ended quietly last week when Celera Genomics Corp. announced that it is closing its subscription-based database service and will release its genomic data on humans, rats, and mice to the public." (2005)
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12:11 < delinquentme> kanzure,  whats this?
12:11 < delinquentme> subscription based database services?
12:12 <@kanzure> when celera sequened the human genome they put it behind a paywall
12:12 <@kanzure> *sequenced
12:13  * katsmeow-afk erases the Liberace image of the genome
12:17 < delinquentme> biofuelz : http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/40073/?p1=A1
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12:36 < delinquentme> kanzure, to say these chips will synthesize DNA is not incorrect
12:36 < delinquentme> correct?
12:36 <@kanzure> whaat
12:37 <@kanzure> the first version will be performing phosphoramidite chemistry to create oligonucleotides
12:37 < delinquentme> single stranded DNA
12:38 <@kanzure> yes
12:43 < delinquentme> i think we should locate engineers
12:43 < delinquentme> tbh
12:44 < delinquentme> contacting a whole company ... might be less receptive
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12:50 < ParahSailin_> micro scale oligo synthesis could actually be pretty nice
12:50 <@kanzure> yep..
12:50 < ParahSailin_> it is ignored by idt because it does not fit their biz model
12:51 < delinquentme> idt?
12:51 <@kanzure> you shouldn't have to worry about plasmids.. just print it out
12:51 <@kanzure> idt is a mail order synthesis company
12:51 < ParahSailin_> but my 25 nmol or whatever vials last way too long
12:51 < delinquentme> ic ic
12:51 < ParahSailin_> normally i only use a primer ideally once
12:51 < ParahSailin_> or about 5 times because dna is evil
12:51 <@kanzure> right.. but you're probably using a primer to rip out a gene from a genome because you can't afford to synthesize that gene
12:52 <@kanzure> well i guess i don't know what you're doing with your primers. maybe you don't have the gene sequenced anyway.
12:53 <@kanzure> i bet we could get to the point where it would be cheaper to randomly synthesize strands and do hybridization.. rather than direct sequencing :P
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12:53 < ParahSailin_> dunno about that, but micro scale oligo synthesis is a very good first step towards kilobase synthesis
12:54 < ParahSailin_> because its useful in and of itself to people in the lab
12:54 < ParahSailin_> i would not optimize reaction conditions ever if i could get a picomole of oligo out in less than an hour
12:55 < ParahSailin_> i would just try again with new one
12:57 < kanzure> ParahSailin_: how much have you guys spent at idt on average?
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12:57 < kanzure> like average order size and number of regular orders
12:57 < kanzure> mostly primers?
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12:58 < ParahSailin_> i've spent a couple hundred dollars on all the primers i've ordered in the last year or two
12:58 < ParahSailin_> only have ordered primers from them
12:58 < kanzure> how much would you have ordered if it was $0.0001/bp?
12:59 < kanzure> wait let's make it easier.. $1/kbp and $1/mbp
12:59 < kanzure> Mbp.. units.
13:00 < ParahSailin_> our lab would have paid quite a bit to have oligos on demand
13:05 < delinquentme> ^^
13:05 < delinquentme> thats the thing
13:06 < delinquentme> cost = indicator of product affluence
13:13 < delinquentme> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17688-chromosome-transplant-to-sidestep-genetic-disease.html
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13:13 < delinquentme> katsmeow-afk, can I rig up a nut with this magic back lash eliminating spring?
13:14 < ParahSailin_> what do you mean product affluence
13:14 < delinquentme> ParahSailin_, product A is objectively better than product B because  ( cost of A > cost of B )
13:14 < delinquentme> in a consumers mind
13:15 < ParahSailin_> im not sure if thats a major driver but im sure its a part
13:16 < ParahSailin_> when a pi writes a grant proposal, the cost of the shit he actually needs is highly "elastic" (not sure if thats right economics term)
13:16 < kanzure> ParahSailin_: any reason you guys don't have a $200k dna synth?
13:16 < kanzure> highly "made up" :)
13:16 < kanzure> usually it's an ok approximation
13:17 < ParahSailin_> whether it costs 1k or 10k to do the experiment, the nih will pay it if they deem the proposal worthy
13:17 < kanzure> "oops i misestimated the project is actually $20 mil" doesn't happen
13:17 < ParahSailin_> the pi doesnt care about saving money, because he quotes his salary separately in that proposal
13:17 < ParahSailin_> his salary has no relation to the science expenses
13:19 < ParahSailin_> the only time a pi will start behaving frugally is if he is down on his luck and no governments are throwing money at him
13:20 < ParahSailin_> and those would a fortieri be the less cunning and resourceful ones
13:23 < delinquentme> kanzure, what do you know about high pressue in these chips
13:24 < delinquentme> sounds cool ... apparently there are experiments that can be run which have no bench top corrolary
13:24 < ParahSailin_> like what
13:24 < delinquentme> thats just what the quake lab says
13:25 < ParahSailin_> thats the loc buzzphrase yeah
13:26 < kanzure> delinquentme: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Pressure%20drops%20for%20droplet%20flows%20in%20microfluidic%20channels.pdf
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13:27 < kanzure> neat... "the receding front of the drops suggests that the drops do not make direct contact with the walls, but instead, a thin wetting layer of oil remains in contat with the walls at all times, as also reported by others [16-18]."
13:27 < kanzure> *contact
13:29 < ParahSailin_> yah we call that "plug flow"
13:29 < ParahSailin_> reynolds number and stuff
13:31 < diginet> well I'm in somewhat of a predicament, because the way I see it, I have four options: 1)Find a black widow specimen, 2)get the DNA from someone, 3)pay to have the DNA synthesized, 4)wait for DIY synthesis. 1 is probably the most likely, but also rather horrifying. 4 is preferable, but I might have to wait awhile
13:32 < ParahSailin_> what is n claviceps common name
13:32 < kanzure> #2 is pretty easy. just start calling around.
13:33 < yashgaroth> have you decided whether to get the genomic sequence, or reverse transcribe the RNA?
13:33 < diginet> ParahSailin_, I'm switching to L. hesperus (Black Widow) because the gene is already fully sequenced
13:34 < ParahSailin_> dont worry about fully sequenced
13:34 < diginet> yashgaroth, see above, I'm going with the L. hesperus gene, it actually performs better than N. Clavipes anyway
13:34 < ParahSailin_> n claviceps gene have ends sequenced?
13:34 < diginet> no, that's the problem, the C terminal hasn't been sequenced, otherwise it wouldnt matter
13:34 < kanzure> delinquentme: also http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/The%20pressure%20drop%20along%20rectangular%20microchannels%20containing%20bubbles.pdf
13:35 < ParahSailin_> ah c terminal
13:35 < ParahSailin_> thats actually not a problem at all
13:35 < diginet> kanzure, well, I found the woman who did the sequencing of the L. hesperus gene.  It was post-doc research, and she's since moved to another university, so I doubt she still has samples
13:35 < diginet> ParahSailin_, oh?
13:35 < ParahSailin_> get you a specimen and it should be easy to get that entire orf out of it
13:36 < diginet> one perk of the L. hesperus gene is that there are no introns
13:36 < yashgaroth> oh good
13:36 < diginet> ParahSailin_, how so?
13:36 < diginet> I know how to get specimen
13:36 < diginet> (there are people who sell them online)
13:36 < yashgaroth> lyse cells, run pcr
13:36 < ParahSailin_> you can get n claviceps specimen?
13:36 < diginet> yep
13:36 < diginet> but the black widow silk has better physical properties anyhow
13:37 < ParahSailin_> extract rna, use poly-t- primer with a known sequence tail for reverse transcriptase, then amplify duplex
13:37 < diginet> is reverse transcriptase DIYable?
13:37 < ParahSailin_> hesperus is widow?
13:37 < diginet> yes
13:37 < ParahSailin_> as diy as pcr
13:38 < ParahSailin_> shit is all just mixing enzymes in a tube and putting at temperature
13:38 < diginet> yes
13:38 < yashgaroth> if it doesn't have introns you don't need to bother with RT then
13:38 < ParahSailin_> id get the widow so you dont need rt
13:38 < ParahSailin_> yah
13:38 < diginet> the problem is
13:38 < diginet> black widows are scary :(
13:38 < yashgaroth> so find a dead one
13:38 < diginet> how long does DNA keep? maybe I could get a recently deceased specimen
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13:39 < diginet> I bet I could go on a forum for people who keep spiders as pets (weirdos) and ask for a dead black widow
13:40 < yashgaroth> it keeps well if you get them frozen, or mash them up and add some EDTA
13:40 < diginet> will frozen as in, in a freezer work? or does it need like LN2 freezing?
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13:40 < yashgaroth> nah just your kitchen freezer
13:40 < diginet> hmm, that seems doable
13:41 < diginet> so just ask for a sample of a dead black widow, frozen
13:41 < diginet> they could ship it with dry ice
13:41 < kanzure> you could pay them $20 or something for it
13:41 < diginet> yeah
13:41 < diginet> this is so weird, that this might actually come to fruition :P
13:41 < yashgaroth> ehhh you'll be fine at room temp for shipping
13:41 < diginet> but won't it melt?
13:42 < diginet> or are you saying I need to freeze it?
13:42 < diginet> (once it arrives presumabely)
13:42 < yashgaroth> no I mean freezing for long term storage
13:42 < diginet> ahh right
13:42 < yashgaroth> depends how it died...if it got squished it'll probably get digested pretty quick
13:43 < ParahSailin_> kanzure, if you make that pdms laser id like to make a flow cyte
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13:43 < diginet> yeah, I'd want one in otherwise good condition (apart from, you know, being dead)
13:43 < yashgaroth> dna is stable enough to have a continuous record back to the last universal common ancestor, with the right conditions
13:43 < ParahSailin_> put an ad on zaarly for a black widow
13:44 < diginet> zaarly?
13:45 < diginet> nevermind
13:45 < diginet> (googled it)
13:45 < diginet> well, if I can get a specimen, I can definitely do it
13:46 < diginet> one thing I am still wondering though, is whether sf21 cells are the ideal expression system: I mean, it seems the limiting factor would be the proprietary (and thus expensive) growth serum
13:47 < kanzure> you could experiment with that..
13:48 < diginet> oh, also, what's the longest sequence you can do PCR for?
13:48 < ParahSailin_> i never explain things because i always assume the other person will google a new word when they see it
13:48 < diginet> good point
13:48 < ParahSailin_> 10k is no prob with kapa hifi
13:50 < diginet> because the genes are 9k and 11k respectively
13:50 < ParahSailin_> kapa will do it
13:51 < ParahSailin_> itll be like 3 minute extension, but it will do it
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13:51 < ParahSailin_> sf21s will probably grow in grace medium
13:51 < diginet> excellent
13:51 < diginet> well, hmm
13:52 < diginet> I think it will, is grace medium expensive?
13:52 < diginet> (as in, I seem to remember reading that somewhere)
13:52 < ParahSailin_> it is not proprietary
13:53 < ParahSailin_> but a bottle of media will last you a long time if you buy it
13:53 < ParahSailin_> unless you are trying to make assloads of silk, then youll need to figure out a cheaper feedstock
13:53 < diginet> yeah
13:53 < ParahSailin_> pilot phase, just get expensive stuff that is known to work
13:54 < diginet> yeah, that's what I think
13:54 < diginet> do you know anything about high 5 cells?
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13:55 < Urchin>  
13:55 < delinquentme> http://www.xi3.com/
13:55 < ParahSailin_> fancy proprietary cell line i think
13:56 < diginet> yeah
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14:26 < ybit> diginet: if you really want a dead insect, my friend here has pet hissing cockroaches
14:26 < delinquentme> lololol
14:26 < delinquentme> oiy
14:26 < ybit> hi
14:27 < delinquentme> howy !
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14:50 < diginet> what is the largest protein P. pastoris could generally express?
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14:52 < ParahSailin> http://www.economist.com/node/21552202 heh
14:52 < ParahSailin> i have pichia and a vector for it
14:53 < diginet> I'm wondering if pichia might be easier to deal with
14:53 < diginet> I don't think the silk proteins require any sort of complex PTM
14:53 < ParahSailin> i dont think it will work
14:53 < diginet> oh? is pichia not so great for stuff like this?
14:54 < ParahSailin> its good for normal small proteins, it might even work with this
14:54 < diginet> 320 kDa?
14:55 < ParahSailin> couldnt say
14:55 < ParahSailin> most shit, nobody knows if it will work
14:55 < diginet> well, I found an article that might have the answer
14:55 < diginet> brb
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15:09 < delinquentme> kanzure, did you want to release this to HN?
15:09 < delinquentme> like i have 2 takes on it
15:09 < delinquentme> 1) release it if we're not going to do something with it
15:09 < delinquentme> 2) keep it to ourselves if we do plan on doing something with it
15:09 < kanzure> yes i do want to release it but not right now
15:10 < kanzure> let's get to the point of having three or four scrapers working
15:10 < diginet> well according to this paper, Pichia expresses proteins as large as 4000 amino acids, which is a little bit larger than mine, so maybe it will work?
15:10 < kanzure> also why aren't i using mongo?
15:10 < kanzure> what was the reason behind not using mongodb?
15:10 < delinquentme> i thought you said sqlite was integrated
15:12 < delinquentme> yo kanzure
15:13 < delinquentme> what if we monitized the peer review
15:13 < delinquentme> you get paid a flat fee or according to your research klout score or something
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15:23 < delinquentme> yoo this is awesome! http://www.who.int/hinari/eligibility/en/
15:23 < delinquentme> poor countries get free access
15:23 < delinquentme> beautiful
15:29 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, was it you who liked that micro-fluid chip that moved around bubbles so easily?
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15:42 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: probably?
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16:09 < diginet> I'm looking for a paper: "Microbial Production of Spider Silk Proteins" by Fahnestock, I have access to ScienceDirect, but I can't get that one, anyone here have more extensive access?
16:09 < delinquentme> diginet, #biology or kanzure might
16:10 < diginet> ah okay, thanks
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16:15 < ParahSailin> http://www.nature.com/news/african-agriculture-dirt-poor-1.10311 is permaculture the answer?
16:15 < ParahSailin>  /r/scholar?
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16:52 < delinquentme> holy shitbags
16:52 < delinquentme> 1 publisher
16:52 < delinquentme> 200 journals
16:52 < delinquentme> for their "A" section
16:52 < kanzure> d
16:52 < kanzure> maybe i will be moving to sf after all
16:52 < kanzure> http://www.padmapper.com/show.php?type=0&id=107922802&src=main
16:52 < delinquentme> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
16:52 < delinquentme> DEWWW IT
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16:56 < kanzure> nmz787: http://www.padmapper.com/show.php?type=0&id=107922802&src=main
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16:57 < nmz787> what do you think about optical bench w/ vibe dampenin?
16:57 < kanzure> if we design it right we shouldn't need vibrations
16:59 < nmz787> hah hah, ok, lets hope
17:02 < kanzure> jbei get back with you yet?
17:04 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, bout that microfluids chip. someone asked how they moved around bubbles. my guess would be , charging the fluids, have the chip surfcase oxidized and move the charged liquid by applying applying voltage under each tile and let electrostatic forces do the trick
17:11 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: bubbles, or droplets?
17:11 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: that's called EWOD
17:11 < ThomasEgi> droples. sry for messing up
17:11 < delinquentme> quake's lab has something about PDMS dissapates air  bubbles?
17:11 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Electrowetting-based%20actuation%20of%20liquid%20droplets%20for%20microfluidic%20applications.pdf
17:11 < delinquentme> gas-permiable .. not fluid though?
17:11 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: the way we're thinking of using is just pumping
17:12 < ThomasEgi> hm.. should work for pumping too right?
17:13 < kanzure> i don't see why you would do charged fluid actuation
17:13 < kanzure> if you are also pumping
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17:39 < kanzure> "It's even worse in university libraries, where you can actually follow up all the references by grabbing them off the shelf. The number of books piled up around you with post-it notes marking pages is roughly like the number-of-tabs metric.."
17:40 < nmz787> i have too many tabs open, all the time...
17:43 < kanzure> i never have enough tabs
17:44 < ThomasEgi> tabgrouping ftw
17:45 < kanzure> tab grouping doesn't work because it hides my tabs and firefox/chrome still can't handle >500
17:46 < ThomasEgi> 500 seems like a lot
17:46 < ThomasEgi> maybe.. you should try something else^
17:46 < kanzure> yes especially when barely 200 works
17:46 < nmz787> bookmarking doesn't work for me either
17:46 < nmz787> i never visit bookmarks
17:47 < kanzure> i just remember urls.
17:47 < nmz787> but i do visit open tabs, if they're open and my mind makes it back to the point where i mentally forked
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18:59 < kanzure> http://trance.fm/ isn't too bad for coding music
19:02 < Mariu> thanks kanzure
19:03 < n_bentha> i like soma radio's secret agent mix
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19:11 < delinquentme> kanzure, lets write a book on quantum biology with zero to no knwledge of it
19:11 < delinquentme> well little
19:11 < delinquentme> just to say it can be done
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19:11 < delinquentme> BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED I AM CAPTAIN PLANET!
19:12 < n_bentha> :)
19:13 < delinquentme> I think im gonna do a little scraping project and profile the number of r/suicidewatch posts which have the word "college" in them
19:13 < delinquentme> think it might make a stir?
19:13 < Mariu> yup
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19:18 < delinquentme> any of you guys have a good way to post up a completely anon website?
19:18 < AdrianG> u mean like, 4chan?
19:18 < delinquentme> well 4chan is 4 chan
19:19 < delinquentme> i mean I want something that I can post up an infographic
19:19 < n_bentha> LOL 4chan
19:19 < n_bentha> what's r/suicidewatch
19:19 < n_bentha> do ppl actually talk in there?
19:20 < delinquentme> n_bentha, they do!
19:20 < thylne> http://www.reddit.com/r/suicidewatch
19:20 < delinquentme> infact i've helped out a number of times
19:20 < delinquentme> all people need is a little positive focus
19:20 < delinquentme> and novelty :D
19:21  * n_bentha goes to listen ^_^
19:23 < thylne> That is where the an heros post
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19:25  * n_bentha lmao @ an heros
19:25 < kanzure> i wish you guys would stop using reddit
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19:30 < delinquentme> does hacker news not allow reddit links to be upvoted?
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19:40 < delinquentme> kanzure, what the fuck?
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19:40 < kanzure> reddit has slowly been invading this channel :(
19:43 < delinquentme> ...
19:49 < yashgaroth> you've gotta admit reddit is pretty shit these days
19:49 < sylph_mako> kanzure, someone sold you out to us =J
19:49 < sylph_mako> also yes it is.
19:49 < kanzure> ?
19:50 < sylph_mako> Someone told reddit about the channel.
19:50 < kanzure> is that why? damn.
19:50 < sylph_mako> For some reason I'd always assumed you would have known =[
19:50 < kanzure> i try to ignore that site heh
19:51 < sylph_mako> Like you don't just go and tell reddit about something without making sure everyone's cool with it.
19:51 < sylph_mako> We need a new hivemind system that learns from reddit and steps shit up.
19:51 < kanzure> hivewhatnow?
19:51 < kanzure> let's not
19:51 < kanzure> i don't want your mind in my mind heh
19:52 < delinquentme> wth
19:52 < delinquentme> no i posted that to reddit
19:52 < delinquentme> nm
19:52 < delinquentme> but yes i posted it to reddit
19:53 < sylph_mako> OK I'm the only one who considers reddit to be a primordial hivemind system. I see a way. A glorious enlightening way.
19:54 < delinquentme> what i see is we've got kids here do do shit
19:54 < kanzure> so apparently this guy got into thiel's incubator:
19:54 < kanzure> http://angel.co/kettner-griswold
19:54 < delinquentme> *outside* of academia
19:54 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1fXAdODGvA
19:54 < delinquentme> and people need more exmaples of that
19:54 < kanzure> "I am the next Mark Zuckerburg, the next Craig Venter" <-- sounds like an idiot
19:55 < yashgaroth> wtf are 'antibiotic resistance vaccines'
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19:55 < delinquentme> thats what the kid said?
19:55 < delinquentme> ugh
19:55 < kanzure> it's on his angle.co profile....
19:56 < kanzure> sponsored by the us airforce :|
19:56 < Mariu> :p
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19:57 < delinquentme> PS theil has his own accelerator?
19:57 < delinquentme> or you mean the 20 under 20
19:58 < delinquentme> is he still doing that too?
19:58 < kanzure> he's still doing 20under20 yes
19:58 < kanzure> but also breakout labs is via the thiel foundation
19:58 < delinquentme> O_o
19:58 < delinquentme> with what technology to submit?
19:58 < kanzure> what  ?
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19:59 < delinquentme> what technology did he submit to breakout?
19:59 < delinquentme> is that not part of breakout?
19:59 < kanzure> 20under20 is not breakout labs
20:00 < delinquentme> <kanzure> he's still doing 20under20 yes
20:00 < delinquentme> <kanzure> but also breakout labs is via the thiel foundation
20:00 < kanzure> "he's still doing" he=pete
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20:03 < kanzure> ok so if that guy is the next "craig venter zuckerberg" then what does that make any of us
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20:09 < yashgaroth> oh apparently 'antibiotic resistance vaccines' is related to the igem team he was on
20:09 < yashgaroth> still looks fucking stupid
20:14 < delinquentme> kanzure, so the kid is *not* doing breakout labs?
20:16 < kanzure> he's doing 20under20 i think
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20:39 < kanzure> hmmm so bruce perens is claiming that software freedom conservancy is ok with umbrellaing hardware projects
20:39 < kanzure> for 501c3 status
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20:45 < delinquentme> kanzure, i dont follow
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21:00 < delinquentme> lolwut 'However, there is a certain temperature and pressure at which all three states of water can coexist. At this so-called critical transition, the distinction between gas, liquid, and solid essentially disappears.'
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21:02 < kanzure> nmz787: hi
21:02 < delinquentme> TRE WOMP
21:05 < nmz787> yo
21:06 < nmz787> kanzure: so did you see the line about $40 vs $150 laser goggles
21:06 < kanzure> no?
21:06 < nmz787> the more expensive ones came with some certification
21:06 < nmz787> so i think i'd prefer them
21:07 < nmz787> the other ones were from a website that had spelling/english errors
21:07 < nmz787> even though it said it was based in U.S.
21:09 < kanzure> haha i think goggles are an ok thing to splurge on
21:09 < nmz787> basically thats what i was thinking
21:10 < nmz787> i have to figure out the optics stuff yet, but most of it is there
21:10 < nmz787> need to add spincoater
21:10 < kanzure> in the google doc?
21:11 < kanzure> what step is the spincoater for? pdms layering?
21:11 < nmz787> yeah
21:11 < nmz787> or do we break that into a different spreadsheet?
21:11 < kanzure> this is a good question
21:11 < nmz787> i guess thats not the next step
21:12 < nmz787> from right now
21:12 < kanzure> no we should definitely plan it out
21:12 < nmz787> when the next step is to build a laser cutter that works
21:12 < nmz787> and the software
21:12 < nmz787> i guess we should start watching the market
21:12 < nmz787> i wonder if a cdrom would work to sprin coat acrylic discs
21:13 < nmz787> is fenn in here?
21:13 < kanzure> fenn: ping
21:14 < kanzure> nope.
21:14 < kanzure> yeah i've seen a few cdrom-based spincoaters..
21:15 < nmz787> so i was thinking that we can have the laser move in one axis, and the substrate move in the other axis
21:15 < nmz787> that way the optics could be simpler
21:15 < delinquentme> ok soo my threads are running :D
21:15 < delinquentme> and just dies
21:15 < delinquentme> feck
21:16 < delinquentme> damn dingos
21:17 < charlieschwabach> diginet: why are you expressing spider silk?
21:17 < kanzure> nmz787: yeah, we also need to uh think about the laser
21:21 < kanzure> charlie, i think he wants to electrospin the silk into threads
21:24 < charlieschwabach> ahh cool
21:25 < charlieschwabach> do you know he plans on purifying it?
21:25 < kanzure> i assume liquid chromatography or centrifugation
21:29 < nmz787> kanzure: have something particular in mind?
21:30 < charlieschwabach> that might not be fun, although electrospinning looks very cool
21:30 < delinquentme> kanzure, can / should ruby threads spawn threads?
21:32 < charlieschwabach> ahh there are a bunch of papers
21:32 < charlieschwabach> i did not do well in that lab in school though
21:32 < charlieschwabach> and we had affinity columns :)
21:32 < yashgaroth> bro protein purification is hella fun
21:37 < charlieschwabach> I have only done it the once
21:37 < yashgaroth> I've done it literally a thousand times
21:38 < charlieschwabach> ahh, awesome
21:38 < charlieschwabach> probably a lot more fun if you are purifying something real / not being graded ?
21:38 < yashgaroth> I even got paid
21:38 < nmz787> i gotta do some hplc in the next week or three
21:38 < nmz787> also gcms
21:39 < nmz787> first time on both of them... though i used an ms for doing ion implant a few years ago
21:39 < charlieschwabach> haha
21:39 < nmz787> that wasn't really the same, hah
21:39 < charlieschwabach> yeah that probably helps too
21:39 < yashgaroth> what kind of hplc column
21:39 < nmz787> dunno yet
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21:39 < nmz787> yeah actually the mass spec for ion implant had this huge plasma chamber
21:40 < nmz787> and was old as shit, with prob 4 ft x 8ft of knobs and gauges
21:40 < nmz787> pretty insane watching the lab TA tweak it
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21:46 < strangewarp> So, the New Aesthetic.
21:47 < strangewarp> Looks like some sort of important art movement is kicking off... and the album I've just started working on would incidentally fit right in! Motivation!!
21:54 < sylph_mako> important how?
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22:07 < strangewarp> Important because it engages with the aesthetics of glitch, machine vision, and general technology things in a non-sideshow manner, from what I've read
22:19 < sylph_mako> interesting.
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22:23 < sylph_mako> Vulpvibe is coming to mind.
22:25 < sylph_mako> That wouldn't happen to be you, would it?
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22:34 < strangewarp> sylph_mako: Nope. But I admire his marketing ability. X)
22:34 < sylph_mako> I once saw one of his songs on a DDR machine.
22:35 < strangewarp> Makes sense; pretty sure DDR machines allow for fans to make their own step patterns for their favorite songs, now
22:35 < strangewarp> Impressive that he has enough saturation that you'd just stumble over something like that
22:36 < sylph_mako> I was certainly stumbling.
22:36 < strangewarp> heh!
22:36 < sylph_mako> I'm not good at conscious control over my legs. I only know how to handle terrain.
22:37 < strangewarp> 8 or 9 years ago, I was almost breaking into competitive-level DDR play, but I think I've lost all my ability by now..
22:37 < sylph_mako> sick.
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23:34 < strangewarp> http://thecreatorsproject.com/blog/in-response-to-bruce-sterlings-essay-on-the-new-aesthetic - More brainfood about the New Aesthetic thingy
23:38 < strangewarp> (Also contains links to the relevant material that started the discussion)
23:58 < sylph_mako> What's the point. I look at myself as a survival machine but there is no surviving indefinitely. What say the gods stop computing the universe one day. What could we have done? What could we have ever done?
--- Log closed Sun Apr 08 00:00:26 2012