--- Log opened Sun Apr 15 00:00:36 2012
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00:28 < diginet> urgh, building the growth chambers for my lemna expression system is going to be expensive :/
00:30 < diginet> ah well, some good old Schoenfield never fails to cheer me up.  Anyhow, hmm
00:30 < diginet> fluorescent bulbs are cheap, and efficient, but they're also too thick
00:31 < diginet> LEDs in any sizeable quantity are expensive and not quite as efficient
00:31 < diginet> the obvious solution would just be to use sunlight, but then I can't get the density I need, unless I figure out some way to pipe in light
00:38 < diginet> does anyone here know about light tubes/pipes/guides?
00:39 < diginet> would it be as simple as using optical fibers on a mirror and dispersing it with a fresnel lens?
00:45 < Adifex> oop sorry went out for a bit ybit & Mariu. I'm in biomedical engineering and computer science at UTD.
00:46 < Adifex> No, I don't know anybody, I searched free node for bio stuff and loaded up this alone with biopunk, diybio, and some other places.
00:47 < Adifex> Hplus is the best though :D
00:47 < Adifex> as its namesake borders on philosophical stuff too
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09:48 < kanzure> beep boop
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09:54 < kanzure> even more diybio fearmongering http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sunday/2012-04/15/content_15050264.htm
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09:59 < strangewarp> It's China's state newspaper, so no surprise there; like many countries in the present and throughout history, their government is terrified of what their populace would turn to with even a little bit of power
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11:36 < kanzure> nmz787: hi
11:36 < kanzure> nmz787: so i don't understand. was that a yes or no on the synthesizer?
11:44 < nmz787> it was my opinion
11:45 < nmz787> i didnt check to see if we can get replacement chemicals
11:48 < nmz787> what do you think?
11:49 < kanzure> oh, column -t is nice. wish i would have known about that
11:49 < nmz787> we could potentially spend weeks trying to get it to work, is that worth not spending that time for our system
11:49 < nmz787> ?
11:49 < kanzure> nmz787: yeah i haven't checked either
11:49 < kanzure> well.
11:49 < nmz787> http://www.glenresearch.com/Catalog/biosearch8000.html#reagnets
11:49 < nmz787> the ebay item you sent was a biosearch 8400
11:49 < kanzure> i think it would be educational even if it's fubbared
11:49 < nmz787> so i guess the chems are availab;e
11:49 < nmz787> right, but is that education worth $900
11:50 < nmz787> if we're just taking it apart, i'd feel better about paying 1/2 that price
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11:51 < kanzure> most of these were originally purchased with service/repair contracts
11:51 < kanzure> so i suspect that cheaper synthesizers don't show up because they are repaired (not sure)
11:52 < kanzure> what was that other site we found? where it listed the $10k, $90k refurbished synthesizers
11:53 < kanzure> ah it was this site http://www.bluelionbio.com/labequip.phtml?mode=list&mode2=by_category&category_id=20
11:54 < kanzure> meh .. "CyClone Oligo Synthesizer     $4,750 USD"
11:56 < kanzure> interesting.. here's an email from 1994 complaining abuot the cyclone http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/methods/1994-March/012615.html
11:58 < nmz787> hmm
11:59 < kanzure> well. i haven't seen them cheaper than $800 before.
11:59 < nmz787> i'll ask this week about the synth on campus, supposedly has bad valves
11:59 < kanzure> also: there's a good number of listed, cheap syringe pumps on ebay
11:59 < nmz787> i doubt they'll sell it, but its worth a shot
12:00 < kanzure> how many pumps are we going to need?
12:00 < nmz787> http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/bfs/2906322670.html
12:00 < kanzure> haha $200. ok great.
12:00 < nmz787> o
12:01 < nmz787> not actually a synth i think
12:01 < kanzure> er that's a mini prep machine
12:01 < kanzure> yeah
12:01 < nmz787> well all of 4 listings on craigslist, that was the only one for sale
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12:04 < kanzure> here's one in atlanta for $500
12:04 < kanzure> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beckman-OLIGO-1000-DNA-Synthesizer-Analytical-Lab-/350556433801?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519ecaad89#ht_500wt_1056
12:04 < nmz787> well that one having the manuals /is/ a good thing
12:05 < kanzure> heh i wonder where those gauges on the ground are supposed to go
12:05 < nmz787> that just looks like a gas pressure regulator
12:05 < kanzure> which gas? :x
12:07 < kanzure> huge pdf file- looks like beckman oligo 1000 marketing material
12:07 < kanzure> http://www.bidonequipment.info/pdf%20files/BECKMAN%20INSTRUMENTS,%20INC.%20OLIGO%20Series%201000%20DNA%20Synthesis%20Systems.pdf
12:09 < kanzure> "Dimensions: 43 cm x 54 m x 48 cm"
12:09 < nmz787> g2g, friend needs fast car help
12:09 < kanzure> "Reagent Delivery: Helium Gas 99.99% pure"
12:10 < nmz787> yta
12:10 < nmz787> for pushing the fluid
12:10 < nmz787> i think
12:10 < nmz787> or a non-oxidative environment
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12:49 < kanzure> hi yashgaroth
12:49 < yashgaroth> yo
12:50 < yashgaroth> so, you've checked with agent you/head about individuals owning an oligo maker?
12:51 < kanzure> nope
12:52 < kanzure> that's akin to checking with them to own an inkjet printer :)
12:52 < yashgaroth> haha we'll see if that holds up in theoretical court
12:54 < yashgaroth> actually, I do wonder if those machines come hard-coded to store a record of all the oligos it's made
12:56 < kanzure> the software looks very ancient
12:57 < kanzure> looks like it might be running DOS
12:57 < yashgaroth> I'd say *nix, but biologists are shitty enough with programming that it probably is DOS
12:57 < kanzure> reverse engineering the software isn't a problem.... once i get the actual hard drives orw hatever
12:58 < kanzure> in general you can assume it's the worst possible software
12:58 < yashgaroth> the processing required isn't exactly intensive, even for mid-90's
12:58 < kanzure> it looks like one of those machines expects you to manually type in the sequence?
12:58 < kanzure> some of them look like they have rs232 so there's at least that..
12:59 < yashgaroth> unless it does degenerate sequences, a keypad would be sufficient
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13:00 < kanzure> yashgaroth: manual input is incredibly error-prone
13:00 < kanzure> i doubt any synthesis company would be manually typing in sequences
13:02 < yashgaroth> ehh, gotta have something for the techs to do/fuck up
13:02 < kanzure> yashgaroth: honestly i thought that all these web synthesis services just hooked up their website directly to the machines
13:02 < kanzure> but i know better now :|
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13:04 < kanzure> i'm surprised they still have enough margin to pay for manual button pressing
13:04 < yashgaroth> I'm sure the big companies have it all automated these days
13:05 < yashgaroth> you don't need phd's doing it
13:05 < kanzure> yeah but at some point the cost of hiring someone is going to be greater than the price you're charging
13:07 < yashgaroth> anyway I'm sure you can run it all through the serial port if you want
13:20 < kanzure> streety: yes i am based in texas
13:23 < yashgaroth> well, if you don't need to make >1 oligo at a time, that beckman does look like a good deal
13:23 < n_bentha> yashgaroth: did you hear back from the other job?
13:24 < n_bentha> did you get the pee in the mail?
13:24 < yashgaroth> got a phone interview tomorrow
13:24 < yashgaroth> all the thc should be out of my system before they check it
13:24 < n_bentha> woohoo! good luck, buddy. i so wish i had a job and was't a student studying for the mcat. /me really doesn't want to be broke
13:24 < n_bentha> ok well drink h20 and work out
13:25 < yashgaroth> oh, any news on your cursed transformation?
13:26 < yashgaroth> it's the closest thing I get to intrigue now that I've run out of stuff to watch
13:27 < n_bentha> no :(
13:27 < n_bentha> but i did a different transformation with a ~13kb plasmid construct, and it worked! (i think). only got a few colonies, but i cultured them and i'm hoping they turned out great
13:27 < yashgaroth> 13kb's no problem for bacteria, so they should be fine
13:28 < n_bentha> yeah. usual plasmid size is a lot smaller, right?
13:28 < n_bentha> this one has 3 differnet genes in it
13:29 < yashgaroth> the construct we used at my previous company was like 12kb, because they had all sorts of stupid shit in it
13:29 < yashgaroth> "oh there are cell lines with EBNA gene already expressed? no thanks let's stick that whole 3kb in every plasmid"
13:29 < n_bentha> ah i c
13:30 < n_bentha> lol
13:30 < n_bentha> yeah, there's a big 'protein backbone' on this one. and then 3 genes.
13:30 < n_bentha> gotta transform it into agro and then plants
13:30 < n_bentha> big money if it works
13:31 < yashgaroth> I thought you were in academia? big papers?
13:31 < n_bentha> high agricultural economic importance
13:32 < n_bentha> ya. i'd probably won't see a dime of the money
13:32 < n_bentha> :(
13:32 < yashgaroth> but think of the cars your university executives will be able to afford!
13:32 < n_bentha> haha. they already get a mansion, cars, and like 400k for sitting on their fat asses
13:33 < n_bentha> fuck. i wish i could be the president of my univ
13:33 < yashgaroth> oh man the UW president makes so much money
13:34 < n_bentha> yahgaroth. I was shocked today to learn that "According to Mensa, the average adult IQ score is 100.". Then I realized that it explains so much.
13:34 < n_bentha> I used to think the average IQ was like 120.
13:34 < yashgaroth> 100 is the definition of the average
13:34 < nmz787> i generally think the avg IQ is lower than 100
13:34 < yashgaroth> but yeah, for everyone 120 there's an 80
13:35 < n_bentha> And alot of those 120's are now 60's from drug abuse.
13:35 < yashgaroth> nmz, you just underestimate how stupid 100 IQ is
13:35 < n_bentha> +1
13:38 < n_bentha> I remember in Pinky and the Brain when Brain told Pinky that his iq was 6--that of a soapdish.
13:45 < kanzure> i think i have an iq of 100
13:46 < n_bentha> iq's change a lot during your teenage years. if you got it tested when you were 13, then it's probably different now, kanzure.
13:47 < kanzure> i'm not really interested in testing my iq :)
13:47 < n_bentha> me neither. the first one i took. the lady didn't proctor the exam correctly.
13:49 < n_bentha> i got all the answers correct really quickly. then there was a page that said you are supposed to stop and wait for the proctor before you continue, so i sat and daydreamed while the other kids were still working. then the proctor called time and collected all the books and i was like wtf mate, you didn't tell us to continue.
14:01 < nmz787> when i was 8 or so, I think I was in the 130s
14:02 < nmz787> these days I don't really even know what IQ really means, but I generally like people that are 'sensible', dunno if that equates to intelligence
14:03 < nmz787> also, these days, I'm too bored to take another long-ass IQ test, especially the ones on the internet that seem kind of bogus
14:03 < n_bentha> haha interent iq tests....lol
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15:46 < strangewarp> IQ "over 160", but half the people with very high IQs end up emotionally dysfunctional, so I pissed away a lot of opportunities and am presently in a rut
15:46 < strangewarp> also, itt responding to conversations that happened 3 hours ago
15:50 < kanzure> you shouldn't really plan your life around your iq number
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15:50 < lichen> iq never really matters for anything
15:51 < kanzure> lichen: you should read up on netbeans and jsp when you have some spare time
15:51 < lichen> mmk
15:51 < kanzure> or setup apache tomcat and run jsp for shits-n-giggles..
15:51 < lichen> ive had a sort of busy weekend but ill try to get to that
16:08 < delinquentme> strangewarp, whats the issue?
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16:26 < strangewarp> delinquentme: Actually got over my issues mostly, now I'm doing stuff. But I am basically the poster-boy for demonstrating IQ doesn't equate to success ;)
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16:27 < delinquentme> does IQ + focus?
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16:29 < strangewarp> Maybe. From my own experience, I know when I take citicoline and alpha-GPC, it gives me focus, and I suddenly feel like I've reclaimed my birthright. Definitely going to grab large supplies of those once I can.
16:29 < Mariu> are emotions a thing of the future, or not ?
16:29 < kanzure> birthright??
16:29 < kanzure> Mariu: what?
16:29 < strangewarp> kanzure: As a supposed "genius" :P
16:29 < kanzure> you guys just got all crazy. you're asking if emotions are real, and now if iq is a birthright or something
16:29 < Mariu> will they exist / be needed in the future or not ?
16:30 < kanzure> Mariu: needed by who?
16:30 < Mariu> humans :p
16:30 < kanzure> many humans live with tremendous brain damage
16:30 < kanzure> so yes it's possible...?
16:30 < Mariu> I see, point taken
16:31 < kanzure> strangewarp: ehh, genius just isn't a helpful label
16:32 < kanzure> what are you going to do.. group up with all the other geniuses?
16:32 < kanzure> mensa doesn't do much except scrabble tournaments
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16:33 < kanzure> hi nmz787
16:33 < kanzure> "ah what a fine day for science"
16:34 < kanzure> someone should make transcripts for all the dexter episodes
16:34 < nmz787> yes
16:34 < nmz787> i would think they exist
16:34 < kanzure> nope
16:34 < kanzure> http://dexterslab.wikia.com/wiki/The_Bus_Boy_(transcript)
16:34 < kanzure> that's not even complete
16:35 < kanzure> "Mandark. Mandark. Let me know when you are done and I'll show you the rest of the lab. Here we have the main directory. My lab is divided into five sectors: artificial intelligence, synthetic technology, biochemistry, electromechanics, and top secret stuff. Anything you would like to see first?"
16:35 < nmz787> wait, dexter's lab is diff than dexter
16:35 < kanzure> "Uh, top secret stuff?"
16:35 < kanzure> "Good choice. To your left, you have your basic robot army, alien communicator, atom smasher, teleporter, giant robot, time portal. Ah, yeah, I'm sure you have all of this stuff back at your lab. Ah, yes. This is a personal favorite. By a process of neural infusion, I am able to harness the collective unconcious, so for a short time I am able to become the smartest being on earth. Not specifically diabolical, but, hey, it couldn't hurt. Would you l
16:35 < kanzure> huh? there's only one dexter and he has a lab
16:36 < nmz787> they both have labs actually
16:36 < kanzure> who is this other dexter?
16:36 < kanzure> alter dexter?
16:36 < nmz787> one is a blood splatter tech
16:36 < nmz787> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter_(TV_series)
16:36 < kanzure> hrmm
16:36 < nmz787> i've seen them all
16:36 < nmz787> can't say the same for dexter's lab the cartoon
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16:43 < strangewarp> kanzure: Yeah, I used to be Mensa's flagship youth member, and it served to indirectly make things worse instead of better
16:43 < strangewarp> That's in the past, though
16:45 < kanzure> what did mensa do?
16:45 < kanzure> besides scrabble
16:45 < strangewarp> Honestly? Mostly encouraged my parents to isolate me from others, and then try to push me through university when I was obviously not emotionally or intellectually ready.
16:46 < kanzure> what? so they called your parents regularly?
16:47 < strangewarp> No, one of them was a Mensa member, so lots of one-way enthusiasm going on
16:48 < delinquentme> strangewarp, are you an electrical engineer?
16:48 < strangewarp> delinquentme: No, but I've built electronic music gizmos from other people's schematics.
16:49 < delinquentme> ever program a beagleboard?
16:49 < kanzure> why are you asking?
16:49 < strangewarp> Nope, just ATMEGAs..
16:49 < delinquentme> or written code for MCs
16:49 < kanzure> i think there are other people you should ask for beagleboard info
16:49 < strangewarp> I've done a bit of Wiring but it was for a dumb project that I put on hold
16:49 < strangewarp> Yeah, I'm probably not the best person to ask :p
16:49 < kanzure> i mean, i don't see why you are asking about beagleboard to strangewarp specifically
16:50 < delinquentme> whats the difference between these chips
16:50 < delinquentme> i mean at a ligh level
16:50 < delinquentme> AVR ARMs
16:50 < kanzure> atmega is a microcontroller and dev board probably
16:50 < delinquentme> ATMEGA?
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16:50 < kanzure> beagleboard is a small computer with "motherboard"
16:51 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beagleboard
16:51 < strangewarp> ATMEGAs are what the Arduino is based upon, and as I understand it, they're particularly user-friendly. I've only loaded my own code onto ATMEGAs embedded in Arduinos though
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16:52 < kanzure> hi klafka
16:54 < strangewarp> If you're loading code onto standalone ATMEGA chips, you have to use a programmer like this doodad: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9825
16:54 < strangewarp> And I think it requires a small custom circuit in addition, as well
16:55  * strangewarp past the boundaries of his knowledge now
16:55 < delinquentme> yeah so you've got that option in arduinos
16:55 < delinquentme> to write either arduino code .. and let the arduino interpreter run it or flash your own code
16:55 < delinquentme> whatever compiled binary right?
16:56 < strangewarp> I'm pretty sure there's an implementation of C for certain ATMEGA chips, or at least I heard about it in passing
16:57 < strangewarp> Let's see.. if you're uploading to a standalone, you need to send it a hex file, using WinAVR or somesuch equivalent program
16:57 < strangewarp> I am inexperienced in that area, alas
16:57 < delinquentme> ok more:
16:58 < strangewarp> There are tutorials though, they make use of that Sparkfun programmer doodad
16:58 < delinquentme> what about panda boards .. the website says for mobile development ... this just means its a low power platform right?
16:58 < delinquentme> you can plug it into a wall and you can run whatever it is you want on it
16:58 < strangewarp> alas, you've got to ask someone else about those
17:33 < klafka> HEY
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17:59 < nmz787> delinquentme: ATMEGA chips power Arduino dev boards, they are of the AVR processor architecture, ATMEGA chips also have peripheral electronics on-chip, like for doing SPI and RS232 comms
18:00 < nmz787> delinquentme: beagleboard and pandaboard are based on TI's OMAP processor line
18:00 < nmz787> delinquentme: which encompass an ARM processor core, as well as a TI DSP processor core, as well as a multitude of varying peripherals, including audio, video decoders and encoders
18:01 < delinquentme> peripherals!
18:01 < delinquentme> ive been trying to figure out how to do a search for processor + board
18:01 < delinquentme> not just processor
18:01 < nmz787> DSPs have very cool abilities such as single instruction, multiple data
18:01 < nmz787> which is why they're called DSPs, because they can process a shit ton of data with few instructions
18:02 < delinquentme> digital signal controller
18:02 < delinquentme> yeah just read about those
18:02 < nmz787> basically the data pipeline is bigger for the amount of code that controls it
18:02 < nmz787> what do you mean for processor + board?
18:02 < delinquentme> like I dont want to search for chips
18:02 < nmz787> what are you looking for?
18:02 < delinquentme> i want to search for a board
18:03 < delinquentme> im not really sure quite yet like should it be based around the core processor on the board?
18:03 < nmz787> with what characteristics?
18:03 < nmz787> it depends what architecture you want to work with
18:03 < nmz787> you can do a lot with FPGAs and CPLDs
18:04 < nmz787> you can actually program processors into those
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18:05 < nmz787> or you can make them do very straightforward things, where your data just flows through the manipulation, rather than being piped around a processor's architecture with instructions
18:05 < delinquentme> lol yeah with HDLs right?
18:05 < nmz787> high density lipoproteins?
18:05 < nmz787> hardware def lang?
18:05 < delinquentme> hardware description languages
18:05 < nmz787> yeah that's one way, verilog is the best i've heard
18:06 < nmz787> if you want to go FPGA/CPLD route
18:06 < nmz787>  but if you go that route, you'd better set aside a year of time to learn and get your feet wet
18:06 < delinquentme> yeah I think thats not what im after
18:07 < delinquentme> at last count I need 2 steppers 1 linear actuator a string pot and a switch
18:07 < delinquentme> so like from what I know
18:07 < delinquentme> that could be a SUPER simple MC
18:07 < delinquentme> ( I asked around and some electronics dude forwarded one that seems like its for audio processing to me )
18:07 < nmz787> beagleboard, beaglebone, pandaboard, gumstix, raspberry pi all have pretty decent communities if you need something with that much power
18:08 < delinquentme> http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/DATA_BRIEF/DM00037955.pdf
18:08 < nmz787> dont use ST
18:08 < delinquentme> for the main board I do
18:08 < nmz787> for MCs they have terrible docs
18:08 < delinquentme> and im wrapping my head around how to program those
18:08 < delinquentme> haha
18:08 < nmz787> and also closed source programming toolchains
18:08 < delinquentme> oddly enough I was thinking that that sheet was rather sparse
18:08 < nmz787> you can compile C to AVR hex with gcc toolchain
18:09 < nmz787> same with TI's MSP430
18:09 < delinquentme> so how do I find the right board for running those peripherals
18:09 < nmz787> i like the parallax propeller lately
18:09 < nmz787> it can def do all what you just said you need
18:09 < nmz787> its cheap, as easy as arduino
18:09 < nmz787> and has great docs and community with large repo of prior art/code
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18:10 < nmz787> FYI
18:10 < nmz787> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_single-board_computers
18:10 < katsmeow-afk> how do you know which cpu is active at any time?
18:10 < nmz787> you program it
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18:10 < nmz787> on startup only one is active, but then you dish out programs to the others
18:11 < katsmeow-afk> yeas, you have 8 cores, how do you know from outside the chip, which is active?
18:11 < nmz787> all cores can access any of the 32 gpio pins at the same time, so if you tell core 0 to toggle I/O 1, then you look at I/O 1 with an o-scope to tell its active
18:12 < delinquentme> can panda boards be used for whatever?
18:12 < nmz787> i'm not really sure that answers your question tho
18:12 < delinquentme> like i see no reason why you could *only* use it for mobile dev
18:12 < nmz787> delinquentme: yea
18:12 < delinquentme> ( even though thats what the website says )
18:12 < delinquentme> but it would be cheaper to buy something more purpose-built
18:12 < katsmeow-afk> it doesn't, really, i wanted to mux all 32gpio pins dependng on which cpu was active at the time
18:12 < delinquentme> but yeah I've got 1 main board and 12 subsequent MCs which need to control the previous sensors etc
18:13 < nmz787> for what you mentioned earlier, steppers and whatnot, you dont NEED pandaboard or anything in that class
18:13 < nmz787> ahh, well you can sync the cores pretty easily
18:13 < delinquentme> nah but I need something to control 12 of X (smaller micro ) which controls the sets of steppers and whatnot
18:13 < nmz787> propeller is 8 cores in 1
18:13 < nmz787> so get two of them, and you've got 16 cores
18:14 < katsmeow-afk> with 4 io pins per cpu
18:14 < nmz787> pandaboard is good for mobile dev because it has bluetooth and wifi onboard
18:14 < nmz787> that's all
18:15 < nmz787> like i said, on the propeller each core has access to all 32 io pins, so you could sync the cores, and just program it so they don't step on each others feet
18:15 < delinquentme> so parallax is another option for a company like ST .. but higher quality
18:15 < katsmeow-afk> <blink>
18:16 < nmz787> katsmeow-afk: tell me more about what you want to do
18:16 < nmz787> delinquentme: i guess, ST probably has a wider product range, but yeah they both make processors
18:17 < katsmeow-afk> use the propchip like 8 cpus, with 32bit io per chip, by muxing the real world as the chip sees it
18:17 < katsmeow-afk> delinquentme, ST doesn't make Parallax's propellor cpu
18:17 < katsmeow-afk> it's not amatterof uality even
18:17 < nmz787> delinquentme: TI, ST, Parallax, MicroChip, freescale, intel, amd, cypress
18:18 < katsmeow-afk> it all depends if they make a cpu that will do what you want
18:18 < delinquentme> Hmmm
18:18 < nmz787> and also if they're based in US or not
18:18 < delinquentme> so you can get CPUs which do what you want
18:18 < nmz787> that generally tells of their support and doc quality
18:18 < delinquentme> or large ones which you can just flash to do what you want?
18:19 < nmz787> the bigger they are, the harder to set up electronically and code-environment wise
18:19 < delinquentme> the bigger?
18:19 < delinquentme> you mean the more complex the CPU is?
18:19 < nmz787> yeah, like the panda/beagle boards use OMAP
18:19 < nmz787> they have two cores that are diff architecture, and 10s of peripherals
18:19 < nmz787> need DDR ram, tons of caps, diff power supply levels
18:20 < nmz787> yeah, CPU complexity as well as onboard peripherals and req offboard peripherals
18:20 < delinquentme> so like something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PARALLAX-P8X32A-Propeller-QuickStart-Board-/110852456328?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D110856567956%26ps%3D54#ht_603wt_1398
18:20 < delinquentme> that I would just flash with new code and have it run that shit
18:20 < nmz787> just to get beagle/panda setup in dev environment takes a lot of time reading through 1000 page PDFs for specific bits in special registers to set
18:21 < katsmeow-afk> just throw attinys at it
18:21 < delinquentme> what?
18:21 < delinquentme> really?
18:21 < delinquentme> thats gay
18:21 < nmz787> propeller is as easy as arduino to get running, download one zip from parallax, and plug into RS232/USB-Serial
18:21 < nmz787> beagle/panda of course have communities, so  a lot of that setup has been done
18:21 < delinquentme> arduino is probably the biggest community right?
18:22 < nmz787> but when you want to toggle I/O pins from embedded linux on the beagleboard, or use the raspberry pi's camera (parallel I/O) port... you gonna have fun digging into huge docs
18:22 < delinquentme> the pi has an onboard camera?
18:22 < nmz787> unless someone else 'beats' you to it!~
18:23 < nmz787> no, but it has a port
18:23 < delinquentme> ohhh ic ic
18:23 < delinquentme> theres sooo much complexity in these chips
18:23 < delinquentme> but like for most operations you dont need to hit upon most of it huh
18:24 < delinquentme> um whats a brownout?
18:24 < nmz787> loss of power
18:24 < nmz787> not enough current supplied
18:24 < nmz787> so shit dies randomly
18:24 < delinquentme> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-new-Development-Board-KIT-ATMEL-AVR-ATMEGA128-Mega128-WL-/320808718559?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D110856567956%26ps%3D54#ht_2519wt_1398
18:25 < delinquentme> thats a circus.
18:25 < nmz787> lol
18:26 < kanzure> i wonder if i could buy a circus on ebay
18:26 < delinquentme> ^
18:26 < delinquentme> http://www.instructables.com/answers/Is-there-a-cheaper-alternative-to-arduino/
18:26 < delinquentme> this!
18:27 < delinquentme> can you really buy one of those chips and basically get a working arduino for 5 bucks?
18:27 < delinquentme> found one for 8
18:27 < delinquentme> what specifically does "arduino compatible circuit" mean
18:28 < delinquentme> can I flash arduino code onto it and run it like the $60 dollar version?
18:28 < delinquentme> bc that'd be effinf swell
18:28 < nmz787> arduino is just the IDE and community
18:28 < nmz787> period
18:28 < nmz787> its also a dev board
18:28 < nmz787> as someone said earlier, you can use attiny chips
18:28 < nmz787> they are also AVR arch
18:28 < nmz787> and cost about $2
18:29 < nmz787> the least you need to get them running is an lm317 and some caps
18:29 < delinquentme> so effectively the code is out there
18:29 < delinquentme> as well as the schematics
18:30 < delinquentme> and while they're not going to be as pretty
18:30 < delinquentme> they'll run the same code and do exactly the same shit
18:30 < delinquentme> save for the switches and LEds which arent included in the stripped out versions
18:32 < nmz787> basically
18:32 < nmz787> you should use a crystal too, if you're doing anything time dependent
18:33 < nmz787> but yeah, basically what you said
18:35 < nmz787> http://robots-everywhere.com/site/data-loggers/thalamoid/
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18:42 < delinquentme> http://hcgilje.wordpress.com/resources/arduino-standalone/ this dude is saying theres an internal oscilator?
18:42 < delinquentme> ghetto fab?
18:48 < katsmeow-afk> most cpu have various ways to make clock signal, from internal clock, external rc, external resonator external xtal, external synchronous drive, etc
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18:55 < delinquentme> its not at all complex to put a bootloader on a chip right?
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19:02  * katsmeow-afk points delinquentme at superkuh
19:03 < delinquentme> superkuh, lol howdy
19:03 < delinquentme> i hear you've got lots of cool goodies
19:04 < nmz787> delinquentme: putting a bootloader on a chip just means programming it at a low-level
19:04 < nmz787> delinquentme: it really doesn't have a place in microcontroller land
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19:05 < nmz787> arduino uses a "bootloader", which is just arduino code... and all it does is make programming a little easier
19:05 < delinquentme> yeah its "do i buy the bootloader install hardware or buy the preinstalled arduino duellmoive whatever chip"
19:06 < nmz787> with an embedded linux system, the bootloader is mostly the CPU specific code, setting up all the peripherals and stuff, then it looks to flash or SD memory to load the linux kernel
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19:06 < nmz787> arduino is nice to have because it functions as a programmer for fresh AVR chips
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19:08 < katsmeow-afk> afaik, you can suck the bootloader off an arduino avr and put it on as many of the same avr you like
19:08 < katsmeow-afk> on the other paw, according to Tom and rue, you don't need a bootloader
19:08 < nmz787> you can just download the bootloader source
19:08 < nmz787> and right, you don't need a bootloader
19:08 < delinquentme> i think ill just buy the pre loaded chips
19:08 < nmz787> it just makes programming them a bit easier
19:09 < nmz787> which means you can hook up RX, TX, and DTS directly to the chip to program
19:09 < nmz787> vs using a different protocol called in circuit programming or something like that/
19:10 < nmz787> but programmers that do that are like $15
19:10 < nmz787> or as I said, an arduino can do that too
19:10 < katsmeow-afk> Tom sells programmers, and iirc rue has programed avr using serial,parallel, and pata ports
19:11 < delinquentme> so at like 5 i break even huh
19:11 < nmz787> if you're gonna go with AVR, just get an arduino to ease into the whole paradigm, then get fresh un-bootloadered chips
19:11 < nmz787> you can get one at radioshack for $30
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19:20 < delinquentme> yeah i've got a mega
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20:14 < delinquentme> dude longecity
20:14 < delinquentme> has the shittiest login system
20:15 < Mariu> :)
20:16 < Mariu> longecity, that sounds nice
20:17 < kanzure> i prefered their older name..
20:17 < kanzure> their new name sucks
20:17 < kanzure> "immortality institute" is a way better name for forums than "longecity"
20:25 < nmz787> long city... must be like long island
20:27 < kanzure> gotta drive home. bbl
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20:36 < delinquentme> alright all
20:36 < delinquentme> GEW NIGHT
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22:21 < Mariu> later everyone
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22:50 < joshcryer> kanzure, I don't understand wtf longecity means
22:50 < kanzure> it just means "we're all too many panzies who don't want to put Immortality Institute on our resumes"
22:50 < kanzure> apparently one of the major reasons for renaming their site was that they were afraid of persecution because of their resumes?
22:51 < kanzure> (i don't know how that's the case; i don't think i've ever been hired because of my resume..)
22:52 < joshcryer> I'm not even sure how you should pronounce it
22:52 < kanzure> lounge city
22:53 < joshcryer> That's what I thought. But Why not buy the domain with the u? :P
22:53 < joshcryer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longeing
22:54 < kanzure> they probably were trying to go for "longevity"
22:54 < joshcryer> Ahhhhh, yes. Doh. OK, I get it now. Stupid name.
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23:22 < Mokbortolan_> I had an interesting thought today
23:22 < Mokbortolan_> in the US, conservatives are fiscally individualist and socially collectivist
23:22 < Mokbortolan_> and liberals are fiscally collectivist and socialy individualist
23:23 < Mokbortolan_> or at least, lean in those directions
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23:51 < sylph_mako> each collectiveism renders the collectivism in the other sense unnecessary.
23:58 < Mokbortolan_> social individualist: You can do what you like, as long as you don't hurt me.
23:59 < Mokbortolan_> social collectivist: You have to abide by the rules of the group.
23:59 < kanzure> political permaband
23:59 < Mokbortolan_> ?
23:59  * Mokbortolan_ enjoys meta-politics.
23:59 < kanzure> i'm too sleepy to evaluate whether or not your politics is insufficiently cnosidered
23:59  * kanzure sleeps
--- Log closed Mon Apr 16 00:00:00 2012