--- Log opened Thu Apr 19 00:00:42 2012
00:19 < Mariu> later everyone
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00:33 < fenn> well that took forever. rendering a rail generated by implicitcad in meshlab http://fennetic.net/irc/rail_meshlab.png
00:39 < delinquentme> sooo you're modeling rails?
00:39 < delinquentme> or is that like a study in that cad?
00:45 < fenn> both
00:48 < delinquentme> not solidworks huh?
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01:42 < jrayhawk> He's probably evaluating cad software for eventual use in SKDB standardization
01:47 < delinquentme> http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/
01:49 < delinquentme> gorgeous mill http://micro.lumenlab.com/micro
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05:45 < kanzure> does anyone have a quick mobi-to-pdf tool for linux?
06:04 < kanzure> *finally* http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/biopunk.pdf
06:04 < kanzure> ^book
06:09 < Coornail> kanzure: calibre is alright for that
06:10 < kanzure> yes i've done the conversion already
06:10 < kanzure> also i'm a little annoyed that i had to use a gui tool
06:11 < Coornail> you can probably script calibre from the cli
06:11 < Coornail> there is a python api as I remember
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06:33 < phryk> kanzure: nice, I was thinking of buying that :)
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06:40 < kanzure> i've given a few copies to friends, annoyed it took so long to get a digital version
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07:11 < kanzure> "The Geometric Structure of the Brain Fiber Pathways" http://www.sciencemag.org/content/335/6076/1628.abstract
07:12 < kanzure> "diffusion magnetic resonance imaging. The cerebral fiber pathways formed a
07:12 < kanzure> rectilinear three-dimensional grid continuous with the three principal axes
07:12 < kanzure> of development. Cortico-cortical pathways formed parallel sheets of
07:12 < kanzure> interwoven paths in the longitudinal and medio-lateral axes, in which major
07:12 < kanzure> pathways were local condensations. Cross-species homology was strong and
07:12 < kanzure> showed emergence of complex gyral connectivity by continuous elaboration of
07:12 < kanzure> this grid structure. This architecture naturally supports functional
07:12 < kanzure> spatio-temporal coherence, developmental path-finding, and incremental
07:12 < kanzure> rewiring with correlated adaptation of structure and function in cerebral
07:12 < kanzure> plasticity and evolution."
07:12 < kanzure> oh right. this was the earlier "grid" paper from this month.
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07:33 < kanzure> cia field agent leak http://pastebin.com/3RNmH53Q
07:34 < kanzure> actually on second thought don't click that
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08:01 < kanzure> aw we lost HEx1
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08:28 < delinquentme> raspberry pi developer says that theres a decline in kids programming?
08:50 < diginet> I would say yes and no
08:50 < diginet> in pure absolute numbers, I'm sure there is an increase, as more and more people have computers
08:51 < diginet> but in terms of percentage of computer users, then it's probably decreasing
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09:55 < _F7_> Hey y'all
09:56 < _F7_> Jacob just invited me to meet with the FBI for lunch on Monday
09:56 < _F7_> at Brasil, on 2604 Dunlavy
09:56 < archels> The KurzweilAI newsletter seems to be running out of steam.
09:59 < _F7_> From what I understand it's just to get to know the houston WMD bio liason
10:00 < ParahSailin> is the fbi paying?
10:00 < ParahSailin> if so i would eat with them
10:00 < _F7_> haha, cool
10:00 < _F7_> What to expect?
10:01 < _F7_> I think the FBIs interest in diybio is interesting
10:01 < _F7_> they've paid to cart a lot of my friends around
10:03 < _F7_> Also there's an offer to send me to SF from june 12-16
10:03 < _F7_> y'all get these I imagine?
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10:26 < delinquentme> _F7_, they want to send you to SF?
10:27 < _F7_> Yeah, I think they want everyone in SF
10:27 < _F7_> I've declined the last few times but I feel like it'll be a big DIYbio party
10:28 < _F7_> so I might go this time
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10:29 < delinquentme> interesting
10:29 < delinquentme> nah cant say i've been contacted :D
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10:29 < _F7_> Maybe jacob is a factor
10:30 < _F7_> I mean I'd never call him extroverted but the guy connects to things awfully fast
10:30 < delinquentme> connecting to things?
10:31 < kanzure> archels: stop reading kurzweilai :P
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10:31 < kanzure> _F7_: i've met with the fbi often re: diybio, so if you need some pointers let me know
10:31 < kanzure> _F7_: but yes, we're inviting everyone out to the diybio/fbi event this year
10:31 < _F7_> What's their interest.
10:31 < kanzure> we're also getting cathal
10:31 < kanzure> so we'll finally meet that guy
10:32 < kanzure> also, joseph jackson/biocurious is doing a hackathon the day after the event
10:32 < _F7_> I mean they're spending money so I doubt they just want to play patty-cake with me
10:32 < kanzure> usually they want to just connect and talk about what's going on
10:32 < _F7_> okay
10:32 < kanzure> also, there might be some recent thing in the news that they want to see if you know about
10:33 < kanzure> hint: look up your agent's name in the recent news
10:33 < kanzure> "Houston FBI Special Agent Jack Jupin remembers his former partner during a memorial service for FBI Special"
10:33 < kanzure> well anyway; that's not particularly relevant to diybio
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10:34 < kanzure> _F7_: i am sorta too busy to type, but if you wanna call and talk about it for a few min i'm 512-203-0507
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10:35 < _F7_> Okay, I might do that.
10:35 < kanzure> kk if so please do it either now or later tonight
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10:39 < kanzure> _F7_: also here's notes from the fbi/diybio 2011 meeting http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/fbi-diybio-2011/2011-07-13.txt
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10:48 < _F7_> I tried, it bounced though
10:48 < _F7_> I have a different number now, so ya know
10:49 < kanzure> hmm
10:49 < kanzure> try again?
10:51 < kanzure> didn't get anything
10:52 < _F7_> I'll try again in five minutes, I have to finish a thing real quick
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11:00 < kanzure> fenn: so what's the say on implicitcad?
11:07 < _F7_> @kanzure I think your phone needs some ministrations
11:13 < kanzure> _F7_: pm me your number
11:13 < _F7_> k
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11:22 < kanzure> hi juul
11:23 < juul> hi kanzure
11:23 < juul> looks like i'm doing some AFP in human cells
11:23 < juul> thanks for the suggestion
11:24 < kanzure> AFP?
11:24 < juul> trying to find a system for upregulating expression when the temperature drops.
11:24 < juul> anti-freeze protein
11:25 < juul> i'm not sure we'll have time to do both the sensor and the AFP expression
11:25 < juul> but the idea is to see if we can put an "emergency anti-freeze" system into hela cells
11:28 < kanzure> juul: you going to the diybio/fbi thing?
11:28 < kanzure> they were going to fly in some people from biologigaragen but didn't seem to have your name listed
11:29 < juul> yeah. the fbi seems to be ignoring me
11:29 < kanzure> interesante
11:29 < kanzure> you should email me & joseph.jackson@gmail.com and say you're from biologigaragen, in the bay area
11:29 < kanzure> joseph has been helping the fbi out with arranging travel details for everyone
11:30 < kanzure> a lot of international folks are being flown in
11:30 < juul> yeah, not that they don't reply to my emails (i haven't sent any) but i put my name on a list to receive info about this, both this year and last, and did not receive emails. could just be a glitch
11:31 < juul> yeah, i probably should RSVP
11:31 < _F7_> oh, juul
11:32 < _F7_> at what temperature threshold?
11:33 < _F7_> juul: RNA thermometers
11:33 < juul> it's just a proof of concept, but it'd be preferable to begin producing AFP as soon as the temperature drops say a couple of degrees, such that the cells are still functioning efficiently enough to produce a lot of AFPs
11:33 < juul> _F7_, thanks!
11:34 < kanzure> juul: i'd make sure to clarify in the email that you are in the bay area, but "from the copenhagen group"
11:34 < kanzure> *you are already in the bay area
11:34 < juul> yeah, don't need a ticket
11:34 < kanzure> which means their costs are basically $0 zilcho
11:57 < juul> ok confirmed, I'll be at the workshop
11:57 < juul> kanzure, will you be there?
11:57 < kanzure> yes
11:58 < juul> great :)
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12:04 < fenn> kanzure: implicitcad works as intended, but it needs a lot of work to be usable. the constant size sampling grid for example makes things slow at larger absolute dimensions
12:04 < fenn> rendering time scales ~ as the cube of the dimension
12:05 < kanzure> "size sampling grid" what?
12:05 < fenn> a simple script to watch the source file for changes and re-render it at increasing resolution would be nice
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12:05 < kanzure> does implicitcad force you to use its own rendering thing
12:06 < fenn> it just makes stl files
12:06 < kanzure> is there any actual cad output
12:06 < fenn> or svg files, if it's 2d
12:06 < kanzure> svg is way better than stl :/
12:06 < fenn> anyway it needs a lot of work
12:07 < kanzure> is this just csg or can you address the patchwork of surfaces
12:08 < fenn> it's csg
12:08 < fenn> there's no patchwork
12:08 < kanzure> ok. so if you want to draw on a surface created by your cube, nope?
12:09 < fenn> um. i'm not sure if that's possible or not
12:09 < fenn> but currently i don't think the program is able to do that
12:09 < kanzure> raw csg is nice but you can do that with anything, even blender
12:09 < fenn> it would be easy enough to intersect a plane with a solid to make an outline
12:10 < fenn> right, it's really slow for just csg, you might as well use opencsg for that
12:10 < fenn> but implicit geometry allows for a lot more than primitives like cubes, spheres, etc
12:11 < fenn> for example you can easily make shells
12:11 < fenn> or arbitrary functions
12:12 < fenn> just need to wrap your head around it http://christopherolah.wordpress.com/2011/11/06/manipulation-of-implicit-functions-with-an-eye-on-cad/
12:13 < fenn> really i think what a cad system needs is lots of special purpose macros, like washer(ID=2, OD=4, T=1)
12:14 < fenn> or thread('M6', 10)
12:14 < fenn> i think some of this is implemented in openscad modules but i personally dont know how to use it
12:16 < kanzure> while you're here.. please look at openscad, cadmium, pyopenscad, openscad.py, openjscad, csg.js, and shapesmith's erlang stuff
12:17 < fenn> here's the openscad macro library https://github.com/elmom/MCAD
12:18 < fenn> i need to figure out the stupid opengl 2.0 problem with openscad
12:18 < fenn> otherwise it takes for fucking ever to render
12:18 < kanzure> yeah i wonder why elmom doesn't hang out with us in here anymore :(
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12:24 < fenn> not really sure what the problem is with openscad in the first place, as opencsg seems to work fine: http://fennetic.net/irc/opencsgexample.png
12:24 < fenn> like, why does it need opengl 2.0?
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12:39 < fenn> `LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1 ./openscad` at least renders the part quickly, unfortunately it's then bog-slow to move it around
12:40 < ENKI-][> clearly we need a LIBGL_ALWAYS_WETWARE flag
12:40 < ENKI-][> it will make use of the placebo effect
12:41 < fenn> sure, just run NOP until the computer finishes
12:41 < ENKI-][> it will be even faster than hardware rendering!
12:42 < kanzure> fenn: it uses opencsg to do the actual csg
12:42 < ENKI-][> though i figure if we can take advantage of the stuff used for image processing directly without actually using the eye we probably wouldn't have to spend nearly so much time dealing with triangles.
12:43 < ENKI-][> wireframe mode would involve ingesting mescaline
12:43 < fenn> i think it's calculating the csg surface every time the view updates (whenever you move anything, open menus, etc)
12:43 < fenn> when using CGAL it doesn't do that, perhaps a simple patch is in order
12:44 < kanzure> fenn: a few of the openscad coders sit in #reprap
12:49 < Mokbortolan_> every time I read about a new development in terahertz imaging, I think about this: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24331/
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12:58 < juul> Mokbortolan_, interestin link. thanks!
12:59 < Mokbortolan_> make sure you read the comments though
12:59 < Mokbortolan_> some strong criticisms of the claim in the article
12:59 < juul> ok
13:04 < juul> weird, the comments don't show in firefox
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13:04 < juul> (they do in chrome)
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13:25 < nmz787> To
13:25 < nmz787> Yo
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13:28 < nmz787> So a buddy says it'll be hard to get close to diffraction limited, potentially involving a spatial filter and optics in a vacuum because at the filter(a pinhole at focus) the laser will start cooking air
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13:31 < fenn> "Grbl - the high performance, no compromise CNC controller that runs on a vanilla Arduino"
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13:32 < fenn> oh pff they're dropping support for atmega168, what's the point then
13:34 < fenn> nmz787: can't you flood with argon instead of vacuum?
13:35 < fenn> not sure exactly what 'cooking air' means
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13:36 < _F7_> It's probably really bad optically
13:38 < nmz787> nah  literally mean burning air... He says without thousands in optics co2 will be near impossible to get better than the ULS HDPFO setup which gets 38 Micron spot... Says we should just try blue laser since its 20 times lower diffraction limit
13:39 < nmz787> This guy worked at laser lab here in Rochester, but did more diagnostics
13:40 < fenn> what about NIR
13:40 < nmz787> Told me to talk to another buddy who also worked at laser lab bit who did more optics
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13:41 < nmz787> Pdms has an absobance peak at 830nm there are jdsu fiber coupled diode lasers...2w for about $200
13:41 < nmz787> I have a 1st
13:41 < nmz787> 1 w version
13:42 < nmz787> Could mail it to you, got it from ebay
13:42 < nmz787> Ttyl8r, Sig ing off
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13:42 < kanzure> "thousands in optics" is ok. lasers have to be treated well.
13:42 < fenn> seems more finicky
13:43 < kanzure> OTOH igniting oxygen with a laser sounds bad
13:52 < kanzure> if this oracle v. google api copyright thing goes in oracle's favor,
13:52 < kanzure> i'm totally going to copyright an api that happens to match parasolid's kernel
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14:01 < fenn> the whole idea of clean room implementations is ridiculous
14:01 < fenn> "no i swear i didn't know anything about java before i wrote this JVM" uh huh sure
14:02 < fenn> also, the fact that you know more should be used against you
14:02 < _F7_> igniting atmosphere can't be too bad
14:03 < _F7_> I mean, what's to get? NO, NO2, O3?
14:03 < _F7_> All of those reactions are endothermic.
14:03 < _F7_> or at least not exothermic
14:03 < fenn> "what technical alternatives exist to Java for Android and Chrome. We've been over a bunch of these, and think they all suck. We conclude that we need to negotiate a license for Java under the terms we need."  :(
14:03 < _F7_> so it's not like you'll cause an extinction by dicking around with diode lasers
14:04 < kanzure> fenn: i think that was before they wrote their own jvm
14:04 < fenn> _F7_ haven't you read "cat's cradle"! we're tickling the dragon's tail here man
14:05 < fenn> that was written in 2012
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14:05 < kanzure> fenn: uh? i doubt it
14:05 < _F7_> I'm sorry I couldn't hear you over the sound of ice IX cracking the oceans
14:06 < kanzure> fenn: looks like a 2010 email, but that's also retarded
14:06 < kanzure> dalvik was already pretty good
14:07 < fenn> i dont get why they "need" java or MSFT C#
14:07 < kanzure> also it looks like oracle filed the lawsuit aug 2010, so "negotiate a license" was probably in reference to the lawsuit
14:08 < fenn> right
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14:11 < fenn> oh jeez, opencsg doesn't generate meshes at all?
14:11 < fenn> what's the point i ask, what's the point
14:11 < kanzure> "Image-based CSG rendering (also z-buffer CSG rendering) is a term that denotes algorithms for rendering CSG shapes without an explicit calculation of the geometric boundary of a CSG shape. "
14:11 < kanzure> it's just for rendering on a display
14:12 < kanzure> btw, please be editing cadfaq on diyhpluswiki
14:12 < kanzure> with your findings
14:12 < fenn> we can already render triangles pretty quickly
14:12 < kanzure> you're free to delete most of the content on that page, but we should be writing these things down
14:12 < fenn> what's important is calculating those triangles, not excruciatingly rendering each pixel of the display
14:12 < kanzure> no cnc machine cares about triangles
14:12 < kanzure> i also don't care about triangles
14:13 < fenn> image based CSG won't help you make toolpaths either
14:13 < juul> kanzure, you should make a t-shirt with that text
14:13 < kanzure> juul: my upcoming t-shirt is "Licensed to carry a concealed petri dish"
14:13 < juul> hah
14:14 < juul> you're not though!
14:14 < juul> or?
14:14 < juul> is it a reference to something i don't know about?
14:15 < kanzure> yes in the united states some states have "concealed hand-gun laws" where you can get a license to carry a firearm in public
14:16 < jrayhawk> Uh, most areas you can carry a firearm in public regardless
14:16 < jrayhawk> the CHL is so you can carry a *concealed* firearm in public.
14:16 < kanzure> ah yes, our horse/gun/perl expert
14:17 < kanzure> horse/gun/porsche/perl expert
14:17 < jrayhawk> this is the kind of typecasting I can get behind. except the horses.
14:17 < juul> ok
14:18 < fenn> unsigned long expert jrayhawk
14:19 < fenn> it's way to easy to eat too many dried bananas
14:19 < jrayhawk> I have fewer satiety problems with plantains.
14:20 < jrayhawk> http://www.amazon.com/Inka-Crops-Roasted-Plantains-4-Ounce/dp/B000FK8HJQ I am particularly fond of these
14:21 < jrayhawk> they're fried in palm oil instead of some shitty seed oil, so they're merely *mostly* soaked in reactive oxygen species rather than *entirely*.
14:21 < fenn> i dried my own, no oil
14:21 < jrayhawk> I should get a dehydrator. They seem like fun.
14:22 < jrayhawk> Especially for kale.
14:22 < kanzure> fenn: maybe your time would be better spent just writing an api for what should exist, and then checking to see if anything matches that
14:22 < kanzure> instead of checking each thing and becoming more sad
14:22 < fenn> freecad should do everything i want, it just doesn't
14:22 < kanzure> ...
14:22 < fenn> it crashes instead :(
14:23 < kanzure> let's not use opencascade
14:23 < fenn> i dont get how everyone is merrily using freecad, does it not crash for them constantly?
14:25 < kanzure> i think most people aren't doing anything complicated
14:25 < kanzure> just one or two holes and that's it
14:25 < kanzure> john griessen was getting tons of crashes with heekscad and freecad when he was trying to use them regularly
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14:29 < fenn> especially bad is the crash-on-save behavior
14:32 < kanzure> http://www.cgal.org/Manual/latest/doc_html/cgal_manual/packages.html#Part:Kernels
14:33 < kanzure> esolid (see lolcad.git) was going ok but there's no known license and, i never finished my python implementation
14:34 < kanzure> also.. cgal-python bindings http://cgal-python.gforge.inria.fr/
14:34 < kanzure> seems to be polyhedral crap only
14:34 < fenn> cgal also has confusing license issues
14:34 < kanzure> it looks like it's just "gpl if you're gpl"
14:35 < fenn> ah okay that must have changed
14:36 < fenn> "Originally, its licensing terms allowed its software to be used freely for academic purposes, with commercial licenses available for other uses. It planned to change the license to GPL version 3 in 2012"
14:37 < kanzure> huh.
14:37 < kanzure> also: http://cadinsider.typepad.com/my_weblog/2012/02/solidworks-the-kernel-change.html
14:39 < fenn> who the hell fires their CTO to make an ill-advised technical change?
14:46 < kanzure> ooh that's right ACIS documentation is on a wiki now
14:46 < kanzure> http://doc.spatial.com/index.php/Tutorial:ACIS_Tutorials
14:46 < kanzure> http://doc.spatial.com/index.php/Tutorial:ACIS_Tutorials_(Geometry)
14:46 < kanzure> http://doc.spatial.com/index.php/Parameter_Space_Curve
14:48 < kanzure> classes.. http://doc.spatial.com/qref/ACIS/html/classes.html
14:54 < kanzure> https://help.riseup.net/en/seizure-2012-april "On Wednesday, April 18, at approximately 16:00 Eastern Time, U.S. Federal authorities removed a server from a colocation facility shared by Riseup Networks and May First/People Link in New York City."
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14:54 < kanzure> "among many other things, provided an anonymous remailer service, Mixmaster, that was the target of an FBI investigation into the bomb threats against the University of Pittsburgh."
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15:13 < Mokbortolan_> was that the one where the nursing student got arrested?
15:14 < yashgaroth> it's the only currently going on, don't think they've caught anyone yet
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15:43 < superkuh> So, do the videos on this page about a cnc kit load for anyone else? I saw the link here yesterday but the youtube stuff is "Private". http://micro.lumenlab.com/micro
15:45 < fenn> the video is "private" for me too. also the cnc is not a very good design
15:46 < kanzure> fenn: elaborate on why it's bad
15:47 < fenn> the dangly loose support rods
15:47 < fenn> something like this is much stiffer http://joescnc.com/themachines-06.php
15:47 < fenn> see how the bed directly supports the rods
15:48 < kanzure> fenn: on a related note, do you have some favorite cnc routers for full sheets of plywood
15:48 < kanzure> mom thinks it's a >$50k project but i think a fold-up bed probably exists somewhere
15:49 < fenn> whatever les was working from, i forget the name
15:49 < fenn> the thing that became shopbot
15:49 < kanzure> that thing was huge
15:50 < kanzure> and definitely didn't fold
15:50 < fenn> cad update: current version of openscad is much faster
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15:50 < fenn> it also wants new versions of all its libraries :(
15:50 < juul> kanzure, there is an in-progress build at Metrix Create:Space in Seattle. I don't remember which design they are using.
15:50 < fenn> i've never seen any fold-up cnc routers
15:51 < fenn> it makes sense to me to put it on a wall
15:51 < kanzure> cut from the wall? or store it on the wall
15:51 < _F7_> There's a hacked-together CNC that would've been able to take a full sheet if the scrapyard gods had been nicer
15:51 < _F7_> at TX/RX
15:52 < kanzure> my mom's shop space is really constrained at the momet
15:52 < kanzure> *moment
15:52 < kanzure> so a full bed is impractical (although i don't know how they cut full sheets at the moment anyway)
15:52 < fenn> a full sheet is overkill anyway
15:53 < _F7_> It's got a clever design using sealed worm drives strung together with belts for a Z-axis, and a pretty standard ball screw setup for the x-y
15:53 < fenn> first you have to have infrastructure to handle full sheets, that means a forklift and a sheet rack
15:53 < kanzure> fenn: nope.. she says full sheets
15:53 < kanzure> yeah she doesn't have a forklift
15:53 < _F7_> It only does 3'x6' because we're derps
15:53 < fenn> 2'x4' is good for most things i can see doing
15:54 < _F7_> I have a double digit weight and I can still manipulate a full sheet of plywood.
15:54 < _F7_> don't need a forklift for that
15:55 < juul> if you have a forklift already you already have three-axis control, all you need is a G-code to forklift-controls converter :P
15:56 < juul> (ok that would probably make for the least accurate cnc ever)
15:57 < _F7_> If you're going at it that way then you might as well say that a hexapod with a router head would make a great five axis for any material size
15:57 < kanzure> so sometimes there are 54in cabinets
15:58 < kanzure> or 8 feet cabinets
15:58 < kanzure> so she says the bed has to support that
15:59 < _F7_> I am however intrigued at the idea of a forklift being used as a mobile CNC jackhammer
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15:59 < _F7_> 8 feet is 96 inches
16:00 < _F7_> 54 inches is 4'6"
16:00 < kanzure> yes there are also cases where they use 96 inches
16:00 < fenn> a hexapod _is_ a great five axis for any material size: http://www.flickr.com/photos/usnistgov/5884929289/
16:01 < kanzure> fenn: doesn't have the floorspace for that
16:02 < fenn> i bet she has a spare ceiling
16:02 < fenn> hah
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16:04 < _F7_> fenn: http://www.hexapodrobot.com/forum/images/myimages/mms_hex_cnc_hdf_face_2.jpg
16:04 < _F7_> I wasn't meaning a delta robot
16:04 < kanzure> hmm she didn't sound happy about that
16:04 < juul> kanzure, have you looked at the cheap chinese XYZ Machiner stuff?
16:05 < juul> Ace Monster Toys bought this laser cutter for $3000 + some significant amount for shipping
16:05 < juul> http://factory.dhgate.com/laser-equipment-parts/co2-laser-cutting-machine-new-exlas-1280-p44538879.html
16:06 < juul> This one might be what you need http://www.xyz-tech.com/product.asp?id=4
16:06 < juul> but I can't find the price for that one
16:07 < juul> ok floorspace is a problem
16:07 < juul> i see
16:08 < _F7_> fenn: the thread dates from '08, never saw any further development on the concept. I like it as a replicator concept though.. http://www.hexapodrobot.com/forum/images/myimages/mms_hex_cnc_poly_parts_1.jpg
16:08 < juul> you could probably modify one of these things to be vertically mounted though
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16:10 < fenn> _F7_: yeah it's probably as much of a replicator as reprap ever was
16:10 < fenn> /home/fenn/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/Common Files/eDrawings2011/EModelViewer.exe
16:10 < fenn> blargh
16:10 < fenn> did i mention i hate proprietary cad
16:10 < _F7_> It's sexy if you can get it milling out PCB and spider-legging a little coil winder to make servos
16:11 < kanzure> _F7_: have you seen fenn's stewart/hex platform stuff
16:11 < fenn> anyone with windows wanna try to convert this to some sensible format for me? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14529&d=1139283943
16:11 < _F7_> but at this point I can't see anything to it besides novelty of a thing that walks
16:11 < kanzure> _F7_: dis one http://fennetic.net/bfi/hextatic.jpg
16:11 < _F7_> Yeah, I've seen it, kanzure
16:12 < _F7_> I crawled fenn's website forever ago
16:12 < fenn> oh i didn't realize who i was talking to
16:12 < _F7_> .. they're slow as all hell, but I've got a bunch of gate openers at the hackerspace
16:13 < fenn> in oakland?
16:14 < _F7_> about three feet of extension, big worm drives, and enough push-pull that I've used them in place of a ram before
16:14 < _F7_> I have like four, three matched
16:15 < _F7_> I'm just not sure if it's worthwhile to integrate them into a delta bot
16:15 < fenn> stewart platforms are very sensitive to backlash
16:16 < _F7_> they might do better as an inverted delta, maybe? stiffly holding and altering the angle of a workpeice for another CNC?
16:16 < fenn> yeah there was a bridgeport table attachment like that
16:16 < _F7_> worm gears are pretty good at staying in place. That's why they make good electric winches
16:17 < fenn> http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/this-hexapod-you-can-work-with
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16:21 < _F7_> huh, I wondered why the bot on your site had six linears
16:21 < fenn> it's not a deltabot is why
16:22 < _F7_> I'm just used to the shape for the clever little lightweight deltas. I figured it was for getting extra tilt control, but really it's some kind of active parallelogram thing
16:22 < _F7_> That's cool
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16:23 < _F7_> er, rather, balancing on the compression/extension
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16:36 < fenn> it's stiffer than a deltabot because there's no bending of any beams anywhere in the structure (tension/compression displacement is proportional to force, bending is porportional to force cubed)
16:36 < fenn> or maybe length cubed, i forget
16:37 < nmz787> kanzure: fenn: i called the guy who knows more about laser optics, left a message... if I don't hear from him in the next few days i'll just pay him a visit
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16:53 < diginet> does anyone here know anything about chemical ligation?
16:53 < fenn> i found the above plans on rapidshare (they're supposedly open source, so why so hard to find?) http://fennetic.net/irc/Joes%20CNC%20Model%202006%20R-2.zip
16:55 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:55 < diginet> because I was thinking: since spider silk is such a repetitive protein: would it not be unreasonable to synthesize oligopeptides, and then join them together?
16:56 < yashgaroth> no
16:57 < diginet> no, it wouldn
16:57 < diginet> 't be unreasonable, or no it wouldn't work?
16:58 < yashgaroth> no it would not be not unreasonable
16:58 < Mariu> :)
16:58 < diginet> there's one motif that's about 20 residues long that repeats about 100 times, and then two 50 residue long sequences at the c and n terminals
16:59 < diginet> err
16:59 < diginet> 10 times
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17:01 < yashgaroth> a condensation reaction between free carboxyl and amino functional groups on the backbone will also cross-react with any said groups on the side chains
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17:21 < nmz787> fenn kanzure: there are a decent amount of 830nm optics on ebay
17:22 < nmz787> fenn kanzure: this is the same guy i got my 1W 830nm laser from
17:22 < nmz787> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Watt-Fiber-Coupled-IR-Laser-Diode-Burns-made-SDL-/390062848432?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad18eb9b0#ht_1350wt_1037
17:22 < nmz787> new I think they are about $200-300, and JDSU makes 2W versions
17:22 < nmz787> http://www.jdsu.com/en-us/Lasers/Products/A-Z-Product-List/Pages/2486-l4.aspx
17:25 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/PDMS_spectral_response.png
17:26 < nmz787> looks like 540nm and 760nm are actually the peaks
17:26 < nmz787> not sure how much of a peak they are in terms of the mid IR (i.e. CO2)
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17:50 < kanzure> nmz787: wait why would 1W cut?
17:51 < kanzure> also, how'd you find http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/PDMS_spectral_response.png :P
17:51 < nmz787> i made that
17:51 < nmz787> well
17:51 < nmz787> i gimped it from a paper
17:51 < nmz787> you likely ripped it off a DIYbio post i made
17:51 < nmz787> pirAte
17:51 < kanzure> probably
17:51 < kanzure> :)
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17:51 < nmz787> whats the git repo address
17:51 < kanzure> it just means i actually read your emails
17:52 < kanzure> view: http://diyhpl.us/wiki
17:52 < nmz787> i'm gonna try to use tortoiseGit for windows
17:52 < kanzure> history: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki
17:52 < nmz787> add some spam... i mean useful links
17:52 < kanzure> nmz787@diyhpl.us:/srv/git/diyhpluswiki.git if you remember your username/password
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17:52 < kanzure> if you don't remember your password or if we don't have that setup.. then try git://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki.git
17:52 < kanzure> also, you could just use git in ubuntu? sudo apt-get install git-core
17:53 < nmz787> i know it
17:53 < nmz787> i could... actually the only version control i like is via tortoiseSVN
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17:53 < kanzure> any particular reasons?
17:54 < nmz787> should i clone the whole repo
17:54 < nmz787> ?
17:54 < nmz787> umm, i always forget the command line syntax
17:54 < nmz787> :/
17:55 < katsmeow-afk> wget -r -p -w10 http://url/path/  (maybe -np too )
17:56 < vrs> not -m?
17:56 < nmz787> katsmeow-afk: i remember wget commands! plus the man page is pretty simple
17:57 < nmz787> kanzure: (or anyone) anyway you know how to turn off a phone's "user agent" i.e. what model it identifies to the network?
17:57  * katsmeow-afk goes back under the furniture
17:57 < nmz787> nandroid restoring to cyanogenmod from stock now
17:58 < nmz787> but i know it identifies to the network as an evo somehow... because how else would it know to give me evo updates, etc...
17:59 < kanzure> you'll probably have to use fireox or something
17:59 < kanzure> to get a user-agent-switcher
17:59 < kanzure> what the hell
17:59 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: no
17:59 < kanzure> nmz787: git clone nmz787@diyhpl.us:/srv/git/diyhpluswiki.git
18:00 < nmz787> nah, not in the browser though, to the cell network
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18:04 < kanzure> "Judge Alsup: Can I say it in my own words and have you correct it? [ uses example of subroutine, generalizing to “any computer program””, “so the computer knows what routine to call”. ]"
18:05 < kanzure> "Google: A method declaration is a statement that defines an API element name, return type, parameter type and order."
18:05 < kanzure> "Judge Alsup: I don’t think it’s all that different (from my explanation), maybe yours [Google’s] is a bit better."
18:05 < kanzure> welp that's doomed.
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18:06 < kanzure> "Judge Alsup: I don’t know if at the end of testimony whether the Court will say that the SSO (Sequence, Structure, Organization) is protectable. It might go to the jury [ to make that decision ] Or, this decision could go up to the Court of Appeals. I don’t know."
18:06 < kanzure> ah that's slightly better understanding
18:08 < katsmeow-afk> haven't so many people not patented that and everyone used it anyhow, that google can't possibly lay claim to it?
18:08 < katsmeow-afk> there's gotta be so much prior art that even google can't eat it
18:12 < nmz787> whats the issue?
18:17 < kanzure> nmz787: oracle is claiming that method definitions are under copyright, and they are angry that google built their own jvm
18:17 < kanzure> s/method definitions/method names and arguments and return types/
18:19 < kanzure> haha "Oracle: [brings out a file cabinet]. This filing cabinet, is there any relation of it to an API?"
18:19 < nmz787> just in the context of java, dont all langs use them in general?
18:19 < kanzure> "Edward Serevan: No way is that an API. It's a filing cabinet. You can put papers or file folders in it. "You could even put old shoes in it"."
18:20 < kanzure> nmz787: yes, but oracle is claiming that specifically java's set of method names is not allowed to be copied
18:20 < kanzure> ...or something.
18:20 < nmz787> ah
18:21 < nmz787> what about the open icedTea?
18:23 < nmz787> hrmm, my nandroid backup seem to have disappeared
18:24 < nmz787> thats OK, but very weird... i don't think i deleted them
18:24 < nmz787> or moved them
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18:26 < kanzure> nmz787: did the git clone line work?
18:29 < kanzure> "Google: Sun never asserted that Apache was violating Sun's copyright from the time period 2005 onward?"
18:29 < kanzure> "Oracle: Back to the docs, TX2237, p17, on Java's success being dependent on Java remaining open and consistent."
18:29 < kanzure> "Edward Serevan: It's important that Oracle protects its IP, otherwise people would take our software and not pay for it."
18:29 < kanzure> haha
18:29 < kanzure> that's amusing
18:38 < nmz787> kanzure: yep
18:40 < kanzure> nmz787: ok feel free to bug us if you need git help
18:44 < nmz787> lol http://www.vibrant.com/cable-messes.php
18:45 < delinquentme> hmmm
18:45 < delinquentme> r/cableporn!
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18:56 < delinquentme> i wanna be a kangaroo
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19:00  * katsmeow-afk waves a magik wand and delinquentme becomes a very large bipedal butch mouse
19:00 < delinquentme> rawr
19:08 < delinquentme> kanzure, Gcode runs the reprap right ? Its effectively code to handle 3axis positioning right?
19:13 < kanzure> err sorta.. gcode is one way to tell certain equipment where to move its effectors
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19:20 < kanzure> immunepath is getting rid of equipment: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/zip/2968246724.html
19:20 < kanzure> "Office desks, 3 working fridges, chairs, 2 tall IKEA bookshelves"
19:20 < kanzure> meh nothing interesting :(
19:20 < nmz787> kanzure: ever figure out the cost of that lab space
19:20 < kanzure> that was via Mark Hamalainen <mark@immunepath.com>
19:20 < nmz787> it said $1.6 per g or something
19:20 < kanzure> ah, no i didn't ask
19:21 < kanzure> oh it's interesting that mark works at immunepath now
19:21 < kanzure> i have him down as Mark Hamalainen <h@halcyonmolecular.com>
19:22 < delinquentme> you're just needing cleanspace right?
19:22 < delinquentme> HEPA filters positive air displacement and lots of plastic filk
19:22 < kanzure> i just need a place to put nmz787 and his gf and a lab :P
19:22 < delinquentme> film *
19:22 < delinquentme> sounds like that could be anywhere no?
19:23 < kanzure> nope.. multiple constraint optimization problem
19:23 < kanzure> should be within distance to fenn,
19:23 < kanzure> should be within distance to wherever nmz787 is working
19:24 < kanzure> has to be within distance to wherever chandni
19:24 < kanzure> *is working
19:29 < nmz787> :D
19:29 < delinquentme> fml
19:29 < delinquentme> hamburger making robots
19:29 < delinquentme> thats a hard sell
19:29 < joshcryer> On my to-do list.
19:29 < joshcryer> Fast food without the employees. Would be awesome.
19:29 < delinquentme> i mean its one of the startups funded by lemnos labs
19:30  * yashgaroth wants one of those sushi-making machines
19:30 < nmz787> we need Newton to come in here and fix this multi-body problem
19:30 < delinquentme> true but like its um.. ehh
19:30 < delinquentme> true yashgaroth !
19:30 < delinquentme> we've got multi body problems?
19:30 < delinquentme> carbon copies?
19:30 < delinquentme> damn you guys HAVE been working
19:30 < joshcryer> Wait someone is actually making a hamburger flipping robot?
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19:40 < nmz787> RIT has a hotdog robot
19:41 < kanzure> that sounds terrible
19:41 < nmz787> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXZEoC15j8A
19:43 < nmz787> how doesn't that video get taken down for copyright infringment???
19:43 < nmz787> i put a 12 second clip of the simpsons on youtube last week and it got taken down
19:44 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:47 < kanzure> i wonder if alcor sometimes orders pizza under the name "i.c. weiner"
19:47 < yashgaroth> did anyone ever end up making a band named "ted williams' frozen head"?
19:49 < joshcryer> nmz787, they used the music that YouTube has for listings... YouTube has licensed it probably.
19:49 < nmz787> oh
19:49 < joshcryer> That robot is so sad though, I mean, good work to get it working but it's still so much slower than a bunch of low pay wage earners.
19:50 < nmz787> ya
19:50 < nmz787> 2 mins or something per dog
19:50 < nmz787> the Imagine RIT festival is, aside from showcasing RIT research, a big advertisement and marketing campaign to attract students when they're young
19:56 < delinquentme> http://www.momentummachines.com/ << hamburger maker
19:57 < nmz787> tools -  Something that can't be built by a Ruby coder in
19:57 < nmz787>           a hack weekend.
19:57 < kanzure> nmz787: challenge accepted
19:57 < delinquentme> ^
19:57 < nmz787> oh, no, thats the def of hardware
19:57 < nmz787> not tools
19:57 < diginet> so I submitted MaSp1 to Spark-X, 6 hours later, still not done
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19:58 < nmz787> from here http://www.lemnoslabs.com/
19:58 < nmz787> delinquentme: where do you see anything about burgers there?
19:58 < delinquentme> so kanzure the purchasing in labs ... who do you know whos done this
19:58 < kanzure> "purchasing in labs" means what? chemical procurement?
19:59 < delinquentme> http://www.lemnoslabs.com/companies.html
19:59 < delinquentme> kanzure, the specifics of the process where they agree to purchase a machine
19:59 < delinquentme> like signed contract style
19:59 < kanzure> what brownies was talking about was a letter of intent
19:59 < kanzure> brownies: right?
19:59 < delinquentme> oh was that brownies saying that?
20:00 < delinquentme> anyone work in biomed sales?
20:00 < brownies> eh?
20:00 < delinquentme> PS kanzure has alex dropped off the face of the earth?
20:00 < kanzure> no alex kiselev has "pivoted" to something else
20:00 < delinquentme> he got a solidworks sponsorship and an internship @ some company and hes now camping and guying expensive cameras
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20:00 < delinquentme> guying = buying *
20:01 < brownies> what do you mean, the specifics of the process
20:01 < brownies> just call them. go hang out. talk about stuff.
20:01 < delinquentme> so you'd think hed reply when asking about how to get free solid works licenses ...
20:01 < delinquentme> brownies, I mean what happens when the paper work is signed
20:01 < delinquentme> you're saying this is an individual agreement reached with each company as to their level of interest ? or is it
20:02 < brownies> i would not go as far as signing fancy documents
20:02 < brownies> something written down by someone on their end would suffice
20:02 < brownies> "we have talked to this guy and we agree what he's doing is totally cool, and we want one in our lab to try out"
20:02 < delinquentme> yes this is a typical thing and we're interested in checking out new industry robots so we've got line items / expenses for these specific types of purchases
20:02 < kanzure> probably not.. you will have to ask them. it's not like they buy a machine every month
20:03 < delinquentme> kanzure, theres a kid in SF who applied to SU with the LH idea
20:03 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@213.37.52.127.static.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:03 < delinquentme> his was a retrofitted reprap though
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20:05 < nmz787> kanzure: so a prof told me that the kind of convo we had last week happens a lot with harvard/mit types talking to non-cool school ppls
20:06 < delinquentme> ^^^
20:06 < delinquentme> ?
20:07 < kanzure> nmz787: i have no idea what you just said
20:07 < delinquentme> thats so nuts
20:07 < delinquentme> they're like smiling about making burger robots
20:07 < delinquentme> like props to them!
20:08 < nmz787> kanzure: basically scientists that went to 'good' schools try to screw scientists that went to 'other' schools
20:09 < nmz787> he said you even have to be careful at conferences
20:09 < yashgaroth> the one with syngen? gibson went to USC
20:09 < kanzure> i doubt it's anything about elitism
20:09 < nmz787> gibson did b.s. in next town over from me :/
20:10 < yashgaroth> right so who were the harvard/mit types
20:11 < kanzure> nobody
20:11 < delinquentme> in what ways? idea snagging?
20:17 < nmz787> thats how i felt afterwards
20:17 < nmz787> which i hadnt even considered b4 talking
20:18 < delinquentme> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/04/magnifi-case-helps-you-record-scientific-wonders-with-your-iphone/
20:29 < fenn> god what a waste of a day
20:30 < kanzure> banana cad?
20:30 < fenn> i wish software came with p values
20:30 < fenn> probability(works for a random user)
20:31 < kanzure> it's because nobody writig all this cadcrap is actually writing cad
20:31 < kanzure> they are all wrappers around terrible things
20:31 < kanzure> a wrapper around brlcad would at least have a resemblance of sanity
20:32 < fenn> not a bad idea at all
20:32 < fenn> i dont even know what brlcad is caapable of, to be honest
20:32 < kanzure> lots of csg :p
20:32 < kanzure> check the mged manual
20:33 < fenn> going to go lay down for a while
20:33 < kanzure> http://brlcad.org/w/images/5/52/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
20:34 < kanzure> *writing
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20:46 < delinquentme> wow
20:46 < delinquentme> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-lm8uu-bearings-Reprap-prusa-mendel-Upgrade-your-printer-US-Seller-/300698078301?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4603008c5d#ht_500wt_1413
20:47 < delinquentme> bought 1 of these from mcmaster for that same cost...
20:47 < delinquentme> un bereevabru
20:53 < delinquentme> If I was in the market: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reprap-Prusa-Mendel-SAE-Metric-3D-Printer-ABS-Parts-Neon-Green-/110862176099?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cfe68f63#ht_500wt_1413
20:53 < delinquentme> SUPER hot.
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21:05 < delinquentme> fenn, is your reprap sleeping?
21:14 < nmz787> ever hear of this?
21:14 < nmz787> http://www.cheswick.com/ches/projects/me/index.html
21:19 < kanzure> nmz787: neat
21:55 < ybit> delinquentme: i have those neon green parts
21:55 < ybit> i'm about to send them back though
21:56 < ybit> nothing wrong with them, i just want metric now
21:56 < delinquentme> you dont like em?
21:56 < delinquentme> ohhhh ic ic
21:56 < nmz787> metric ?
21:56 < nmz787> the tooth spacing on gears or what?
22:01 < Mokbortolan_> not really related to hplus, but I thought some might enjoy it, the predatory habits of common fungi: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~gbarron/MISC2003/feb03.htm
22:03 < nmz787> have you all heard of cordyceps? http://www.utexas.edu/courses/zoo384l/sirena/species/fungi/
22:03 < nmz787> infects ants, which then climb as high as possible, go all rigomortis and a mushroom pops out to sporulate
22:04 < nmz787> thus allowing the fungus a lot better air current to distribute spores
22:05 < Mokbortolan_> yes, that's one species
22:05 < Mokbortolan_> the one used medicinally infects silkworms
22:06 < Mokbortolan_> though, what you buy in the store is just the mycelium
22:06 < Mokbortolan_> for some reason nobody's figured out how to mass-produced the fungal bodies themselves
22:06 < Mokbortolan_> -d
22:07 < Mokbortolan_> oh, n/m, south korean government has
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22:19 < fenn> http://elabz.com/worlds-smallest-stepper-motor-with-arduino-and-easydriver/
22:20 -!- charlieschwabach [~charliesc@c-24-118-140-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:20 < Mariu> charlieschwabach msg if chan is +m and if it is needed to anounce that chan is only for +V or higher
22:21 < fenn> there's your z axis
22:21 < charlieschwabach> Mariu.. what?
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22:23 < joshcryer> broken on-join?
22:24 < nmz787> pretty cool
22:25 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
22:28 < nmz787> Mokbortolan_: you've heard of paul stamets?
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23:01 < Mokbortolan_> nmz787: of course!
23:01 < Mokbortolan_> clever fellow
23:01 < Mokbortolan_> bought a shiitake kit from him a long time ago
23:07 < AdrianG> hi all
23:07 < AdrianG> is certain isochroma known here
23:09 < nmz787> cool
23:10 < nmz787> AdrianG: ask kanzure...
23:10 < yashgaroth> what about him adrian
23:11 < AdrianG> yashgaroth: you know who that is?
23:11 < AdrianG> is he still alive and posting?
23:11 < yashgaroth> yeah that guy who had a religious experience on piracetam? dunno what happened to him
23:12 < AdrianG> yeah.
23:12 < AdrianG> his piracetam price page went down
23:12 < AdrianG> that was kind of a big deal for him
23:12 < AdrianG> maybe CIA finally got him lol
23:12 < AdrianG> idk about religious.
23:12 < AdrianG> he just was seriously addicted to it.
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23:12 < yashgaroth> whatevs, shit was silly
23:12 < AdrianG> idk
23:12 < AdrianG> his experience was interesting.
23:13 < AdrianG> he was lucky to have such good response.
23:13 < thylaneb> http://io9.com/5903221/meet-xna-the-first-synthetic-dna-that-evolves-like-the-real-thing/
23:13 < AdrianG> we finally invented our successors.
23:26 < Mokbortolan_> well
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23:34 < nmz787> should't the D still be in there
23:34 < nmz787> XDNA
23:35 < yashgaroth> as if nomenclature in biology is remotely rigorous
23:36 < Mokbortolan_> it doesn't sound as cool
23:37 < Mokbortolan_> oh wow, so, the chemistry of the ladder sets a sort of frequency
23:56 < nmz787> fenn kanzure: can we get this http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jps.2600541102/abstract
23:57 < nmz787> Edward R. Garrett, 1965, Stability of oil-in-water emulsions, j. pharm sci 54:11 pg 1557
23:57 < nmz787> theres this too: http://mro.massey.ac.nz/handle/10179/2747
23:57 < nmz787> Formation and stability of oil-in-water emulsions : a thesis presented in partial fulfilment of the requirements for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in Food Technology at Massey University Srinivasan, Magesh; Srinivasan, Magesh URI: http://hdl.handle.net/10179/2747 Date: 1998
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 20 00:00:43 2012